ive been google'ing Liberal + approach to terrorism

[00:04] (CGI752) k, later.
[00:11] (astrodog) Yo.
[00:15] (Kalomine) ~first real thunderstorm of the year rollin through
[00:17] (astrodog) Kalo: Where?
[00:17] (Kalomine) terre haute indiana
[00:18] (astrodog) Christ.
[00:18] (astrodog) Its gonna be 83 here today.
[00:37] (Tailgate) ive been google'ing Liberal + approach to terrorism tonight and the results arent too pretty :P
[00:44] * t0tgiglz is back
[00:48] (bastille) ?
[00:58] (astrodog) Yaaaay.
[00:58] (astrodog) House is back!
[01:01] (Kalomine) the egg eatin scene in cool hand luke is classic
[01:06] (astrodog) Egg Eatin?
[01:07] (Kalomine) ever seen cool hand luke?
[01:20] (FreeTrad3) children shall not play here!
[01:20] (_rwx) children shall not play here!
[01:20] (astrodog) Fwee?
[01:21] (CanOfSpam) FEAR NOT. I HAVE ARRIVED.
[01:21] (Kalomine) hey spam
[01:21] (CanOfSpam) sup dawg.
[01:21] (Kalomine) not much
[01:25] (t0tgiglz) hey spami
[01:25] (t0tgiglz) hey kalo
[01:30] * An_Angel is now known as kippet
[01:32] (bastille) So San Francisco is banning paper bags...
[01:32] (bastille) plastic bags, that is
[01:34] (Kalomine) those greenies are in a bind........no plastic...more trees for paper
[01:36] (astrodog) Kalo: Eh.
[01:36] (astrodog) Trees are renewable now. Yay tree farms!
[01:46] * gamingfun is now known as hereyago
[01:49] (CanOfSpam) Trees grow fast. Like, not.
[01:49] (hereyago) ?
[01:49] (CanOfSpam) sup nigga
[01:49] (hereyago) yoyo
[01:50] (hereyago) whaddup gangsta
[01:50] (CanOfSpam) werd
[01:50] (teglin) CanOfSpam: Not all biomass used in production of paper products comes from trees.
[01:50] (hereyago) SERIOUS?
[01:50] (teglin) sometimes most of it is recycled
[01:51] (hereyago) those came from trees
[01:51] (teglin) the point is that paper products are more environmentally freindly than plastic
[01:55] (hereyago) spring break RULES!
[02:28] (panini) Dems to Bush: you must accept Iraq timetable. Bush to Dems: kiss my ass!
[02:36] (bastille) yeah!
[02:36] (bastille) stay the course!
[02:38] * t0tgiglz is back
[02:48] (rightooo) panini ..why doesnt Bush listen to the will of the people?
[03:22] (panini) rightooo, because he's a *leader*
[03:57] (gopp) rightooo bush is a leader not a follower
[03:57] (gopp) mob rule sucks
[04:01] (JupaSaur) good morning people and animals
[04:01] (JupaSaur) did the senate pass the iraq funding bill since they defeated the amendment to strip the timetables yesterday?
[04:05] (JupaSaur) abc is saying the senate passed the bill to withdraw the troops from iraq but afaik, they only defeated the amendment to remove that provision from the iraq funding bill. abc news is a joke and even worse than cnn
[04:05] (rightooo) gopp ... he has to listen to his people ...he is not a dictator or a king
[04:06] (rightooo) JupaSaur ...and FoxNews is the best huh? hahaahjaha
[04:06] (compdoc) rightooo, who has to listen, bush?
[04:06] (JupaSaur) fox does is bad news
[04:07] (rightooo) compdoc ..Bush has to listen to the will of the people
[04:07] (JupaSaur) er fox NEWS is bad news
[04:07] (compdoc) lol - yeah, right
[04:07] (rightooo) compdoc ...the congress and senate represent the people
[04:08] (compdoc) sure, even the prez is supposed to represent, but bush is proving he doesnt give a damn about any of that
[04:08] (rightooo) compdoc ..if they make a bill Bush shouldnt veto it ..because its the will of the majority of the people...he shouldnt act liek a king who can turn down anything just as he wants
[04:09] (rightooo) provocating: Bush is on his way to become some sort of dictator or king
[04:09] (compdoc) tell that to him
[04:10] (rightooo) yea i will visit him next week ... tell him to resign hehe
[04:10] (compdoc) cool :)
[04:10] (rightooo) but im afraid i wont get an appointment
[04:11] (compdoc) be very afraid
[04:15] (rightooo) compdoc still there?
[04:15] (compdoc) zzz
[04:16] (rightooo) if he would be my neighbour i would accuse him of hiding explosives and guns in my garden and that hes threatening me ... then i would attack his garden and search for the explosives and guns ..if i dont find anything i will say: your garden was crappy anyways ..haha!
[04:16] (JupaSaur) the front page of the washington post says the senate vote was on the amendment to strip the timetable from the iraq funding bill. i just called the local abc affiliate for the third time and they insist that their story that the senate passed the iraq funding bill itself is what happened. it is not. that abc affiliate is a new york time property. so much for abc news being a farce and the same goes for the new york times. spread the
[04:16] (rightooo) accuse him of hididn g expl and guns in HIS garden of cozurse
[04:18] (compdoc) so much for abc news being a farce and the same goes for the new york times. (- doesnt this mean they arent a farce?
[04:18] (gopp) oh oh oh oh shit
[04:18] (gopp) So far, over-dependence on GPS devices has resulted in more inconvenience than actual danger, but things took a turn for the worse earlier this month when a U.K. woman sent her £96k Mercedes SL500 flying into a river, trusting the car's optimistic GPS guidance instead of the road signs warning of impending doom.
[04:19] (rightooo) gopp ... that must have been a shock
[04:19] (rightooo) did anyone listen to my littel garden fight story?
[04:19] (rightooo) nobody obviously understood what i mean
[04:19] (rightooo) x)
[04:20] (JupaSaur) compdoc whoops it should say they are farces
[04:20] (JupaSaur) thanks CometBaby
[04:21] (JupaSaur) er thanks compdoc
[04:21] (JupaSaur) abc and the new your times are farces
[04:21] (rightooo) New York Times is a well known newspaper ..just because neoconsevatives think its a liberal newspaper they trie to say its a "farce" ..showing where the newspaper may be wrong and destroying its influence
[04:21] (gopp) it is liberal
[04:21] (gopp) the new york times has a liberal bias
[04:22] (gopp) is also well know liberal news paper
[04:22] (rightooo) gopp ... its about if its a farce or not
[04:22] (gopp) I live in nj/ nyc
[04:22] (gopp) and I get the paper
[04:22] (gopp) yes
[04:22] (rightooo) gopp ...so u think tehy are telling lies ..its not a yellow press papser darn
[04:22] (gopp) thier are website decicated
[04:22] (gopp) to show the news paper bias
[04:22] (gopp) each day
[04:22] (gopp) liberal bias
[04:22] (rightooo) gopp ..lololol
[04:22] (gopp) lies NO
[04:23] (gopp) half truth yes
[04:23] (rightooo) half truth???
[04:23] (gopp) yes
[04:23] (gopp) half the truth
[04:23] (gopp) Welcome to TimesWatch.org
[04:23] (gopp) Documenting and Exposing the Liberal Political Agenda of the New York Times.
[04:23] (JupaSaur) i am not calling the new york time a farce because of any bias at this time i am calling it a farce because one of the tv stations it owns in not correctly reporting the story about yesterday's senate vote. it is a farce becasuse the new york time organization does not get the fact right
[04:23] (rightooo) gopp ...just because u think in anotehr way doesnt mean theyre not reporting on the subject
[04:23] (gopp) they have a liberal agenda rightooo
[04:24] (gopp) JupaSaur correct hmm
[04:24] (rightooo) i dont fink so
[04:24] (gopp) yes I think about the facts
[04:24] (rightooo) what about FoxNews then
[04:24] (gopp) and the new york times seem to dissmiss them
[04:24] (gopp) rightooo I don't watch fox news
[04:24] (gopp) can't comment on them
[04:24] (rightooo) they have sheets with agenda points being given to them ..the people that work there
[04:25] (rond) rightoooo when the NYT publishes what many in the US deem to be very obviously strongly biased artcle on the front page of the NYT 44 days in a row....eyebrows get raised
[04:25] (gopp) and it not neo consertive it consertive who say this
[04:25] (JupaSaur) if any new york times people are monitoring this channel, the new york times tv station that does not tell the truth is wnep
[04:25] (rond) when they do that over and over
[04:25] (rond) certain questions are answered
[04:25] (gopp) yes and the funny part rond
[04:25] (gopp) it the new york times
[04:25] (gopp) hardly ever do you see new york news
[04:25] (gopp) new york city enws in the front page
[04:25] (gopp) you see news about the people or the poor in africa
[04:25] (gopp) or the war in iraq
[04:26] (gopp) but news about new york city hardly ever, unless it big news
[04:26] (gopp) I live in new york area
[04:26] (rond) so please rightoooo you being a german ought to ask more questions than telling us how to understand our american culture
[04:26] (gopp) I see thier headlines all the time
[04:26] (gopp) but funny thing is most people when I used to take the wall st train
[04:26] (gopp) read the wall st journal
[04:26] (gopp) only college students or professor on the train read the new york times
[04:26] (gopp) the wall st journal is far more fair
[04:27] (gopp) but they don't claim to be a new york city paper
[04:27] * sHice| is now known as sHice
[04:28] (rond) In and of itself there is nothing wrong with being biased as a media outlet
[04:28] (gopp) the sun is good to
[04:28] (rond) there *ARE* clearly biased outlets on both sides of the equation
[04:29] (gopp) The Sun was founded by a group of investors including Conrad Black with the intent of providing a non-tabloid alternative to The New York Times. It would put Manhattan and New York state news on its front page (in contrast to the Times' emphasis on national and international news over local issues).
[04:29] (gopp) rond well if you say so yes I don't care but they must admit to thier bias
[04:29] (gopp) the sun is also good
[04:29] (gopp) The Sun's managing editor Ira Stoll had been a longtime critic of this policy of the Times, as well as what he considered to be liberal bias in Times reporting, in his media watchdog blog smartertimes.com.[3] When smartertimes.com became defunct, its Web traffic was redirected to the Sun website.
[04:30] (rond) but to be blatenly biased and deny it against many obvious proofs and you claim to be a voice for "all" of a america....then that is just wrong and that outlet should be lambasted by whomever
[04:31] (gopp) The Sun's managing editor Ira Stoll had been a longtime critic of this policy of the Times, as well as what he considered to be liberal bias in Times reporting, in his media watchdog blog smartertimes.com.[3] When smartertimes.com became defunct, its Web traffic was redirected to the Sun website. is good paper
[04:31] (gopp) I don't mind bias if it bias and they say they are
[04:31] (gopp) I can take the information with a grain of salt
[04:31] (gopp) or not even watch it
[04:32] (gopp) but the times claims they are not
[04:32] (compdoc) read our newspaper - we are biased
[04:32] (compdoc) hmm, not sure that would work
[04:33] (JupaSaur) when news is being reported it should be ACCURATE and un-biased both. however an opinion piece is just and may be biased. but even so even an opinion piece should be accurate about the facts
[04:33] (compdoc) they stopped the stripping of the timetable, so the timetable is in place, but the senate hasnt passed it yet
[04:33] (compdoc) and the prez will veto
[04:34] (JupaSaur) bush could backfire that on the dems by not vetoing the bill in order to fund the troops and then accuse the dems of cutting and running becasue they put the timetables in the funding bill
[04:35] (compdoc) well, he sees it as cutting and running, but thats not what it is
[04:36] (JupaSaur) of course
[04:57] (gopp) it is cutting and running
[04:58] (compdoc) its a change in direction
[04:59] (gopp) hhahahh
[04:59] (gopp) yea a big change
[04:59] (gopp) a cut and a run
[04:59] (gopp) cut the direction back home and run
[04:59] (gopp) thus american loses the war
[04:59] (gopp) and thank you dems
[05:00] (compdoc) its not losing a war
[05:00] (compdoc) it never was a war
[05:00] (Harsen) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU
[05:00] (Harsen) rond, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU
[05:00] (gopp) it a losing something
[05:00] (gopp) compdoc you do such and lose
[05:00] (gopp) and yes it war always awar
[05:01] (compdoc) lose what, exactly?
[05:01] (compdoc) we lost when we entered iraq
[05:01] (flm) gopp what state do you live in ?
[05:01] (gopp) The sad thing is, there is such a conspiracy, that the scientist who actual see through this fraud of global warming, can only find funding for their studies through the selfless donations from the humanitarians of the petroleum industry
[05:02] (gopp) Harsen If you think man affects the climate more than the sun can, you should stop breathing my oxygen.
[05:02] (compdoc) fraud of global warming - lol
[05:03] (flm) compdoc,, Follow the money,, who is funding the studies?
[05:03] (flm) who are
[05:04] (gopp) don't tell you belive in gobal warming
[05:04] (gopp) don't tell me
[05:05] (flm) compdoc how was your winter ?
[05:05] (gopp) glosal Warming is a spin to cover up experiments with HAARP also what is happening with the sun and the spiritual energies from the rest of the galaxy
[05:05] (compdoc) global warming is here. do we have an effect on the planet, because of the HUGE numbers of humans on the planet? well, sure, anyone can see that we do. Did we cuase the current 'global warming'? does it matter?
[05:06] (flm) gopp it shure has wormed up nice here this spring already ~!
[05:08] (phyz) i think george bush should be impeached
[05:08] (phyz) borac obama should be the next president
[05:08] (compdoc) phyz, we're working on it :)
[05:09] (phyz) as chris rock would say
[05:09] (ivy^) no earlier than in many past years, but that's the problem in trying to argue that a particular data point proves anything...even after "global warming" is established from an adequate number of measurements, there is the question of "causation" - what's causing it? is it a swing that is independent of or influenced by humans?
[05:09] (phyz) "why not have a black president, we just had a retarded one"
[05:09] (flm) phyz why would you jump right in here with such a statement ?
[05:09] (flm) phyz on what grounds ?
[05:09] (JupaSaur) abc news is really lame and clueless. they have no concept of the difference between a senate bill and an amendment to a senate bill. they have changed their story some to say that yesteday the senate defeated the amendment to strip the pullout timetable but then they go on to say both houses have passed iraq pullout bills
[05:09] (phyz) flm, because he's stupid
[05:10] (ivy^) for that, the only basis is "correlation", but that's subject to the argument that it's not causation but just post hoc ergo propter hoc...so those who are against the concept of global warming being caused by humans will always be able to argue "it's not proven"
[05:10] (flm) phyz is he not socialist enough for you ?
[05:11] (JupaSaur) the senate will not have voted to pull out of iraq unless and until they pass the iraq funding bill with the pullout timetable in it
[05:11] (phyz) lol, flm, i dont give a shit about socialism, it'd be nice to have an intelligent president, bring back bill clinton i say
[05:12] (phyz) or hilary :P
[05:12] (flm) phyz maybe because he didn't let Magon send the school buses to evacuate the people of catrina ?
[05:12] (phyz) i dont care for katrina
[05:12] (Harsen) rond, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU
[05:12] (flm) phyz well, Hillary is definately a Socialist,
[05:12] (rond) sec
[05:13] (phyz) all i ask for is a fairly elected president, and an intelligent one...
[05:13] (phyz) but as i said, i dont care for socialism
[05:13] (flm) phyz Bush was fairly elected !
[05:14] (phyz) haha....
[05:14] (flm) phyz unless you believe that not counting all the vote in Florida would not be fair ,, ! ??
[05:15] (rond) Nice...a European Voiced Narrator
[05:15] (ivy^) recounting all the vote in FL would also have been fair :)
[05:16] (phyz) can you say "corruption". but ok, i guess it's not really george bush thats making all the big descisions. he's just stupid and is a puppet...
[05:16] (flm) Ivy I kinda of used a double negative OOOPs !
[05:16] (ivy^) bush seems to have a limited capacity for attention - and it's fully occupied with the few things he's interested in...
[05:17] (flm) phyz corruption bothers you ?
[05:17] (JupaSaur) ivy^ bush does not have a limited capacityl he has no capacity at all :-)
[05:17] (phyz) well, in a way, yes it does. then in other ways, i dont give a shit
[05:17] (ivy^) that's very limited, jupa
[05:17] (ivy^) ;-D
[05:17] (JupaSaur) yep
[05:17] (rond) so you learned that by watching his eyes on T V ivy^ ?
[05:18] (Harsen) rond, was made in England
[05:18] (rond) yeah can tell hersen
[05:18] (phyz) shit, gotta run
[05:18] (rond) there are some new books on the subject coming out of europe as well herz
[05:18] (flm) phyz Oh ok ,, if it is a Socialist stealing from banks and taking money from monks and then paying them to hide it,, ? that is a corruption you don't care about ?
[05:19] * rond wonders if the european populace will begin to catch up their opinions with this growing conclusion against man made GW
[05:20] (flm) phyz,, It is of for Liberals to do ilegal fund raising,, Because the republicans get their money from evil big corporations,, right ?
[05:21] (flm) Ok for Liberals.
[05:22] (flm) phyz,, just like a Socialist/Liberal, Shit and run !
[05:22] (compdoc) I need funding from a evil big corporation
[05:22] (rond) flm didn't phyz leave ?
[05:22] (flm) round,, she ran !
[05:23] (flm) round are you from Europe ?
[05:23] (ivy^) there are no liberals - there are only people who say they are conservative/libertarian and who call anyone they don't agree with a "liberal"
[05:23] (flm) rond I believe she was blond too .
[05:23] (rond) really ????? tell many of my family that
[05:23] (rond) they claim to be liberal
[05:23] (compdoc) rond is a conservative republican from Texas - that should tell you something...
[05:23] (rond) and many others on here as well
[05:24] (ivy^) oh, rond, you're rebelling against your family - I should have known from all the emotion! :)
[05:24] (flm) Ivy I like that, You are probably right
[05:24] (rond) emotion )
[05:24] (rond) ?
[05:25] (flm) Ivy i have been trying to get the definition of Liberal from people in her, and no one has come up with it,, Except a few darogatory answers /
[05:25] (ivy^) is your family from texas, rond?
[05:25] (rond) what does it matter ivy
[05:25] (rond) they claim to be liberal
[05:25] (rond) you say there not
[05:25] (compdoc) hes not a real texan
[05:25] (ivy^) then it can't be liberal, that's a conservative state!
[05:26] (flm) rond,, Ivy is right( Correct 0 sorry ivy didn't mean to lable you a righty ether.
[05:26] (rond) the ones I am talking about live in NYC and LA
[05:27] (flm) rond,, Liberal comes from the word Liberty,, and ( political Liberals) have nothing to do with Liberty . or freedom.
[05:27] (rond) so ivy your just as wrong about that statement as you are about bush and the emotions comment
[05:27] (ivy^) liberal comes from "free" and liberty comes from the same root
[05:27] (rond) you should not rely on your big gut so much, its giving you bad feedback
[05:27] (ivy^) heh, I don't mind
[05:28] (flm) Rond who are you saying has a big gut ?
[05:28] (rond) he is making wild ass guess's
[05:28] (ivy^) just as a I don't mind you being a conservative and having a liberal family :)
[05:29] (rond) making calls from the gut
[05:29] (ivy^) oh, I'm just playing - relax :)
[05:29] (flm) rond " WAG " !
[05:29] (rond) actually I am very relaxed
[05:29] (ivy^) hehe - and it shows too :)
[05:29] (rond) Its relaxing to point out stupidity in comments from stupid people
[05:29] (flm) rond Most of what we or you refer to as political Liberals are Socialist !
[05:30] (ivy^) well, enough of this - it's no fun talking to people without a sense of humor about politics
[05:30] (flm) Ivy I have one,, You can't stay sane and talk about politics if you don't .
[05:30] (ivy^) :) flm
[05:33] (flm) ivy that being said , some may not agree that I am sane ether.
[05:34] (flm) rond,, Am i right or wrong about what we call Liberals ?
[05:34] (rond) flm no
[05:35] (ivy^) most humans are only partly sane at best
[05:35] (flm) rond,, No what ?
[05:35] (rond) no your not right
[05:35] (flm) ivy well I am Himan. i dod know that much,, I think anyway .
[05:35] (flm) rond,, What would you call it ?
[05:35] (ivy^) assuming that sane means "rational"
[05:36] (flm) Human
[05:36] (rond) I would call socialist socialist
[05:36] (flm) Ivy I am pritty rational
[05:36] (rond) and liberals liberals
[05:37] (flm) rond, Most of what we call Liberals are Socialist,
[05:37] (rond) I see
[05:37] (flm) rond Not all
[05:37] (rond) if you say so
[05:37] (flm) ivy see! rond can be rational too.
[05:38] (ivy^) heh - that's the other side of the human coin - we are usually capable if rarely of being rational :)
[05:38] (flm) rond, or is it that the democratic party has used the Class war so much , it only seems like it ?
[05:38] (rond) No idea
[05:38] (ivy^) bbl :)
[05:38] (ivy^) enjoy
[05:39] (flm) rond no ideas ? comon help me out here,, I am aware that I don't know a whole lot
[05:41] (Aufk|aren) Good moaning.
[05:41] (flm) rond,, I dod not understand, How democrats want to tax heavily , and expext it to help the poor,, It only hurts the economy ad slow economy who gets hurt first and most ?
[05:42] (flm) Aufklaren go back to bed,, nothing happening in here this morning.
[05:42] (Aufk|aren) I'll be the judge of that, young man.
[05:43] (Aufk|aren) Iranians get pozzed: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6501555.stm
[05:43] (flm) Aukklarem yes Ser.
[05:43] (Aufk|aren) Looks like they're going to release the female sailor.
[05:43] (Aufk|aren) According to a news flash on Reuters.
[05:44] (Aufk|aren) "Turk TV quotes Iran saying UK woman sailor to be freed."
[05:44] (flm) what is pozzed????
[05:44] (Aufk|aren) Dunno how reliable that is.
[05:44] (Aufk|aren) flm: Har har, you don't want to know.
[05:45] (Harsen) Aufk|aren, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU
[05:45] (flm) pond you still here ?
[05:45] (Harsen) Have you watched that film?
[05:45] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: Yep.
[05:45] (Harsen) What did you think?
[05:46] (Aufk|aren) It's pretty convincing stuff. But then again, it's a film meant for a popular audience. It's been enough to give me some reservations, but ultimately it's up to the scientists.
[05:46] (charlie|`) Geez a 75 min clip on YouTube
[05:46] (charlie|`) Bleh
[05:46] (rightooo) back!
[05:46] * charlie|` is now known as charlie|
[05:46] (rightooo) x)
[05:47] (rightooo) how can i change my nick on here like carlie did?
[05:47] (charlie|) /nick newnameyouwant
[05:47] (Aufk|aren) Type /nick (newnick)
[05:47] (rightooo) thx
[05:47] (Harsen) Aufk|aren, The main point that I agree with, is after we did defeat world communism and socialism pretty much, a lot of the marxists jumped into the environmental movement as a vehicle for anti-capitalism, anti-globalism as opposed to any concern for ecology or science
[05:48] (rightooo) Harsen ..Marxists stay Marxists ..they dont change
[05:48] (Harsen) They just found a new place to hide.
[05:48] (charlie|) Eh, there are enviromentalists that have a legitimate concern
[05:48] (charlie|) That aren't alarmists
[05:49] (rightooo) Harsen ...but people caring about the environment and have a critical view of globalisation are not nessesseraly marxists
[05:49] (flm) Harsen who is we ?
[05:49] (rightooo) flm ..he prolly means the free world
[05:49] (Harsen) Frankie, I never said we.
[05:49] (Aufk|aren) HarsenL: Actually, I thought the political stuff at the end was the weakest part of the film - particularly the insinuation that anyone working in climate change is knowingly perpetuating a myth in order to get funding. On the other hand, I found the more scientific stuff towards the start - the lag in temperatures behind CO2, the tight correlation with solar variation - more convicning
[05:49] (Harsen) oh wait, I did
[05:49] (Harsen) USA
[05:49] (flm) Harsen and Socialism is very much alive and well , Right here in the USA !
[05:50] (Aufk|aren) I don't know where that 'L' at the end of your name came from. :P
[05:50] (rightooo) flm ..socialism in the USA ..? LOL
[05:51] (rightooo) there is no socialism in the uSA ..the USA are probably the country in the world where the least socialists are
[05:51] (Aufk|aren) MOTHERFUCKERS.
[05:51] (Aufk|aren) The Iranians are going to put the captives on TV.
[05:51] (Aufk|aren) Fucking cunt twat shitfaces.
[05:51] (Harsen) Jesus christ
[05:51] (flm) Aufhlaren It happens to me a lot,, strang letters show up all over the place.
[05:51] (Aufk|aren) Fucking bastards.
[05:51] (Aufk|aren) We should destroy their TV stations.
[05:51] (Aufk|aren) That's completely against the Geneva Conventions.
[05:51] (compdoc) heh
[05:51] (rightooo) Aufklaren ..calm down
[05:51] (rightooo) so what ?
[05:51] (charlie|) Aufk: Ahem, so um nothing went public during Abu Ghrab?
[05:51] (Aufk|aren) No. I'm sick of us being calm over this.
[05:52] (rightooo) theyve showed their hostages 2003 too
[05:52] (flm) Roghtooo yea right,, and what closet are you in ?
[05:52] (compdoc) Iran is playing with fire - pretty stupid
[05:52] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: You sound angry.
[05:52] (Aufk|aren) charlie|: I'm not American, and I disapproved of what happened at Abu Ghraib without reservation.
[05:52] (rightooo) flm ..closet ...im in Europe
[05:52] (charlie|) Oh well then carry on
[05:52] (charlie|) I thought you were American
[05:52] (charlie|) ;p
[05:52] (rightooo) flm ... i just dont think destroying Tv stations will help
[05:52] (flm) righttooo so you don't see the Socialism in the USA ??
[05:52] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: I am. I'm not even particularly fucked off at the Iranians. I'm more pissed because I know there are going to be a decent number of Brits who continue to tell us to back down and that the Iranians are "within their rights."
[05:52] (rightooo) charlie .... :P we are friends arent we :)
[05:53] (flm) Rightooo you don't file your taxes here ether,
[05:53] (rightooo) flm :P
[05:53] (flm) Rightooo you didn't reed the bill that jsut passed the house! \
[05:53] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: I heard an NPR interview with one of the Royal Marines taken in 2003. It gives a good perspective.
[05:53] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: Who said anything about helping?
[05:53] (Aufk|aren) It's punishment and warning.
[05:53] (Aufk|aren) Not everything is about building bridges.
[05:53] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: Basically, right now, it is about getting those people back.
[05:53] (charlie|) Aufk: What do you propose?
[05:53] (charlie|) Though?
[05:54] (charlie|) War with Iran?
[05:54] (flm) Rightooo You don't hear the Socialist talking about How we need Socialised health care do you ???
[05:54] (compdoc) its for the Brits to handle
[05:54] (compdoc) they arent helpless
[05:54] (Aufk|aren) charlie|: Depends what you mean by war. If you mean an all-out land invasion, then no. If you mean any military action, then yes I think it's fast approaching the stage where we have to consider it.
[05:54] (flm) Rightoo it is alive and well,, in the USA !
[05:54] (rightooo) Aufklaren ..i can understand that you are upset as a citizen of Great Britain ...we are upset too over here in egrmany
[05:54] (rightooo) germany
[05:54] (rightooo) the question is what can be done
[05:54] (charlie|) Yes, the U.S. is busy atm fucking up a different war we don't really have the means of getting involved as partners in another one
[05:54] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9158663
[05:54] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: No offence, but there in Germany you'd have pressured the Americans to hand over their Iranian hostages.
[05:55] (rightooo) Aufklaren ..?
[05:55] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: I think those Iranians being held in Iraq aren't hostages.
[05:55] (flm) Charly If the Politicians weren't so afraid of looking bad we could winn and get it over with ..
[05:55] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: They are prisoners, and depending on the circumstances, possibly POWs.
[05:56] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: Just basing it on past history. After the Lufthansa heist, Germany handed over three (or was it two?) of the survivors of the Black September group responsible for Munich.
[05:56] (rightooo) Aufklaren ... how do u come to that conslusion?
[05:56] (flm) srorry ( Charlie )
[05:56] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: Then again, that was thirty-odd years ago. Maybe things have changed.
[05:56] (charlie|) flm: It's hard to turn gold from mismanagened pieces of crap
[05:56] (charlie|) Though with the right alchemy technique
[05:56] (compdoc) flm, what does 'winning' mean?
[05:56] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: You're right. They were rightly arrested for causing trouble.
[05:56] (rightooo) Aufklaren ..u r wrong informed
[05:57] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: How so? Germany did hand over some of those responsible for Munich.
[05:57] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: Because a Lufthansa jet was hijacked.
[05:57] (rightooo) Aufklaren ...the Lufthansa hostage taking was ended in Mogadishu by german special forces
[05:57] (charlie|) flm: Personally, I am just counting down the days this incompitent administration leaves office
[05:57] (flm) Charlie,, we could winn easly But Americans Value inocent lives,, So we go through and sacrifice our Solders to try and save the inocent,, Democrats want to leave those people to Suffer, Like sqay we did the Cubans.
[05:57] (rightooo) Aufklaren ...germany didnt hand over anyone
[05:58] (flm) Charlie and I suppose you would call Polosi compitent ?
[05:58] (charlie|) flm: Um yea, we do. The whole idea behind Iraq was to rebuild a stable Iraq for their citizens. That doesn't apply when they've all been blown to bits by insurgency
[05:58] (rightooo) Aufklaren ...the hostages were freed by german special forces ...
[05:58] (charlie|) flm: No, I don't actually
[05:58] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: Did you check out that link?
[05:59] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: I'm fairly sure Germany released three Black September terrorists. I think the Special Ops came later.
[05:59] (flm) Charlie or when Muslim Theocrats run in and treet them as bad or worse than Saddom did ??
[05:59] (Aufk|aren) Give me a sec.
[05:59] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: Not yet, I have it loaded.
[05:59] (Yaakov) OK
[05:59] (flm) Charlie,, Well you're not all bad.
[05:59] (Yaakov) I am.
[06:00] (flm) Charlie,, What would be your definition of Liberal ?
[06:00] (flm) Yaakov are you a Muslim ?
[06:00] (charlie|) flm: The issue isn't about lables
[06:00] (charlie|) labels
[06:01] (rightooo) Aufklaren ... gemany had problems with terrorists in the 1970s especially .... they tried to get prisoners out by taking the Lufthansa machine. ... and they abducted economy leaders by blunt force ...the german gov didt give in... Germany isnt prone to be blackmailed
[06:01] (Yaakov) No, but I am a monotheist.
[06:01] (Aufk|aren) rightoo: Yes. Immediately after th Lufthansa hijacking, Safady and the twp Al-Gadeyshas were released by West Germany.
[06:01] (Aufk|aren) the*
[06:01] (flm) Charlie This is a completely different subject.
[06:01] (charlie|) flm: I could care less how to define a label like liberal, or neocon, or any of the latter
[06:01] (charlie|) To me they aren't important
[06:02] (charlie|) Unless you're running for office,then they make good fodder for your oppositioni
[06:02] (flm) Charlie I get accused by Liberals of being a "NeoCon" and called a Liberal by self proclamed Conservatives .. ???
[06:02] (charlie|) opposition*
[06:02] (charlie|) flm: Honestly, I think it's going to get worse before it gets better
[06:03] (charlie|) Republicans are handing Hillary a win in 08
[06:03] (flm) Charlie OK that clears up some of it .
[06:03] (charlie|) Which will be 4 more years of imcompitence
[06:03] (flm) Charlie I agree with you there.
[06:03] (charlie|) Clinton | Clinton | Bush | Bush | Clinton .. this has been a rough time
[06:03] (flm) Charlie Now Hillery is a (Handle)) Socialist if there ever was one !
[06:04] (rightooo) Aufklaren ..it was not about the german gov or a Lufthansa machine ....u are wrong ... it was about other planes ...swissair ..panam...Trans world Airlines ...and a british BOAC ... they wanted to press free jailed palestinians ...
[06:04] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: I've heard this guy interviewed on BBC before.
[06:05] (flm) Charlie,, I believe it is going to get worse to, I believe we are going to be attacked again here in the usa,, And It might be way more devistating than befor,
[06:05] (rightooo) Aufklaren ..u have mistaken something
[06:05] (charlie|) flm: Honestly, as much as I dislike democrats I am glad to see diversity in the congress
[06:05] (charlie|) Too many blank checks being written
[06:05] (rightooo) Aufklaren ...germany didnt release anyone convicted
[06:05] (charlie|) And rubber stamped
[06:06] (flm) Charlie,, Only good thing that may come of it is, Democrat/Socialist may lose some momentom and power because of it,
[06:06] (charlie|) flm: I disagree, I think the war on terror is as alarmist as global warming
[06:06] (charlie|) I think it's been overblown
[06:06] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: The thing I got from it is that the number one concern right now are those 15 people.
[06:06] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: Of course, that has to be balanced.
[06:06] (charlie|) We say how much things changed after 9/11, yet we talk out the other side of our mouths to say that we shouldn't live differently
[06:06] (charlie|) Yet we do
[06:07] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: No, I'm not. Jamal Al-Gashey, Adnan Al-Gashey and Mohammed Safady.
[06:07] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: Right, it should be.
[06:07] (charlie|) We have expanded government, blown billions of tax dollars, complicated numerous procedures from local law enforcement to federal
[06:07] (flm) Charlie,, I hope you are correct ,, But i don't believe you are, Althow Republicans are quick to make it a Power grab and Intrude on individual freedoms and Privicy !
[06:07] (charlie|) All for the "War on Terror"
[06:07] (compdoc) "If we come home, the terrorists will follow us home" John McCain. Cant get more political than that
[06:07] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: We need to judge whether or not at some point we need to make it clear we will opt to use military force rather than wait a ridiculous amount of time and have them paraded illegally on TV.
[06:07] (charlie|) Which honestly, I swear is just another alarmist aspect to latch on to
[06:08] (charlie|) Republicans have the war on terror, Democrats have Global warming
[06:08] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_Al-Gashey
[06:08] (charlie|) Which sums it up quite nice
[06:08] (Aufk|aren) Him and two others were released after the Lufthansa hijacking.
[06:08] (charlie|) flm: Well, nothing says you can't tweak national security
[06:09] (CryHavoc) "And how much did Charles Keating give to you Senator McCain?" "Approx. $300,000."
[06:09] (charlie|) More so after 9/11
[06:09] (flm) Charlie,, You believe the Republicans Do not want to grab the Power to intrude on our privicy ?
[06:09] (rond) so charlie after over 20 years of different attacks against the US there is not threat with terrorism
[06:09] (rond) 9/11 was just a figment of my imagination ?
[06:09] (CryHavoc) the dems want to ban guns...
[06:09] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: I find law to be a very weak argument in cases like this. Morality and the likelyhood of adverse consequences is more legitimate. In fact, I think it is the reliance on law, WITHOUT the latter that has devolved the situation into its current state.
[06:09] (charlie|) rond: Did I say it wasn't a threat?
[06:09] (charlie|) No
[06:09] (CryHavoc) the GOP would like to see prayer in the schools and abortion a felony
[06:09] (flm) CryHavoc you still mad at me ??
[06:09] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: If *we* invoke law, they should be able to as well--and law, in this case, doesn't impress me.
[06:10] (rond) alarmist implies no threat doesn't it ?
[06:10] (charlie|) I said it's been made into an alarmist cause to latch on to
[06:10] (CryHavoc) flm I never was mad at you in the first place
[06:10] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: Right, but the breaking of the Geneva Conventions - we specifically complained they had last time - is a calculated attempt at provocation.
[06:10] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: And they can't invoke law. They abducted the sailors illegally in foreign territory. They don't have a leg to stand on.
[06:10] (flm) CryHavoc,, You did some abusing last night , Not to ba mad at me.
[06:11] (flm) CryHavoc remind me not to get you mad at me !
[06:11] (CryHavoc) heh I rarely abuse....unless it is warranted
[06:11] (charlie|) rond: Well, we disagree. I think we live our lives in fear because of the alarmist nature the "War on Terror" is thrown to us
[06:11] (flm) CryHavoc,, I think you enjoied it.
[06:11] (rond) I don't live in fear
[06:11] (rond) but yet I realize the threat
[06:11] (charlie|) I mean look at the Aqua Teen situation not too far back. We have an entire government freaking out over lite brites on a bridges
[06:11] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: Then it *should* provoke. Get the soldiers back and ensure adverse consequences in some form that makes a point. Also, I didn't mean they invoked law in *this* case. I mean they use it as a tool to manipulate appeasers. (And actually, thinking about it, they did that in this case to some effect by claiming trespass.)
[06:12] (rond) I think you should not transpose your emotions onto how others are reacting or not to the threat
[06:12] (flm) Rond,, Yes you do,, you are afraid the Evil rich are going to have more than you and won't get punished for it !
[06:12] (charlie|) The big bad "DHS" can flex its muscle and pretend its worth the federal dollars and manpower it puts out
[06:12] (MissLaVey) crybaby likes a little abuse here and there
[06:12] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: But the point is, do what is *right*--don't say one thing and do another, always follow through. That's about the only way.
[06:12] (Yaakov) Hello MissLaVey.
[06:12] (MissLaVey) howdy Yaakov
[06:12] (Yaakov) I haven't noticed you for a while.
[06:13] (MissLaVey) ive been pretty busy, hvent been around much
[06:13] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: Right, but I don't see how we're failing to do that at the moment. We're unequivocally demanding the release of the hostages. If they're using it as a tool to manipulate appeasers, then that's just more evidence in favour of using military force isn't it?
[06:13] (Yaakov) Ah, good. I thought I was being rude.
[06:13] (rightooo) Aufklaren ...well the german forces made mistakes in the handling of what happened in munich ... that they let the terrorists go is not good ...but as ive read they wanted to get rid of them ....of course not a good thing that this happened ...but after this nothing like that happened and probbaly wont happen ..
[06:13] (charlie|) Im sorry, the "War on Terror" like the "War on Drugs" and "Global Warming" is used more as an alarmist political ralley point then anything else
[06:13] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: If they wanted to get rid of them, they should have handed them over to Israel.
[06:14] (flm) CryHavoc, thats ok I forgive you,, I don't take anything to seriously in here any way.. I just have a little fun and run off to the real world,
[06:14] (charlie|) It's all political fodder
[06:14] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: Right, and it was thirty years ago and when you were West Germany. But still. ;)
[06:14] (flm) Charlie you like Foddering , Don't you ?
[06:14] (charlie|) I do!
[06:14] (charlie|) =D
[06:14] (rightooo) Aufklaren ..and as i posted .... there were abductings of four planes including a british plane ...to press free jailed palestinians ...i think they were freed too
[06:14] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: I think you are assuming a position I am not taking. I am not criticizing England's current response. I am pointing out that the posture of the West needs to change. People are afraid, they should be, it will be disruptive...
[06:15] (charlie|) flm: Like I said, republicans have the "War on Terror" and democrats have "Global Warming"
[06:15] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: They should haven't been released.
[06:15] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: Under any circumstances.
[06:15] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: You don't negotiate with terrorists.
[06:15] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: I don't exactly understand what position you're taking.
[06:15] (rightooo) Aufklaren ... but in the case of the abdicting of that four planes ..they were freed too
[06:15] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: So? You don't negotiate.
[06:16] (rightooo) Aufklaren ...a british plane was one of them
[06:16] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: If you do that, then they do it again and again.
[06:16] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: I honestly don't care. They should have been released, or we should have got them back by force. Negotiation isn't an option.
[06:16] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: Negotiation only means they'll do it again and again.
[06:16] (charlie|) I think there should be a new rule in U.S. policy, The U.S. doesn't negotiate with republicans or democrats
[06:16] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: Sorry for being unclear.
[06:16] (charlie|) =D
[06:16] (rightooo) Aufklaren ..u try to tell me that we have made a mistake ..what about the abducted british aiplane then...the palestininas were relased and the histages were freed
[06:16] (flm) Charlie,, Democtrats #1 agenda and wepon is ( { Class Warfare } ) global worming is just to humor Al Gore as he battler his senality !
[06:17] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: You're missing my point. You don't negotiate, under any circumstances.
[06:17] (rightooo) Aufklaren ,..so no need to argue with me
[06:17] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: Because then it happens again and again and again.
[06:17] (flm) Battles
[06:17] (rightooo) Aufklaren ..as ive stated : Germany is not prone to be blackmailed
[06:17] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: Britain never released any hostages in return for its citizens back. Britain has never negotiated with terrorists.
[06:17] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: What I am saying is that instead of facing the reality of Iran, people (in general) are looking to appease. They believe, somehow, that Iran will become reasonable if we give them what they want. It is odd. Very odd.
[06:17] (charlie|) flm: Im just tired of hearing political slogans like "War on Terror" "Global Warming" "War on Drugs" "Liberal" "Neocon"
[06:18] (charlie|) "War on Poverty"
[06:18] (flm) Charlie,, I agree,, But what are you going to do ??
[06:18] (rightooo) Aufklaren .,.. germany doesnt negotiate with terrorist either
[06:18] (flm) Charlie If politicians can't buy vote they try to scare you into voting for them .
[06:18] (charlie|) flm: Make sure I never put a democrat or republican in office
[06:18] (rightooo) Aufklaren ... there are two german hostages in Iraq now ..the terrorist want germany to retreat from Afghanistan... we wont
[06:19] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: Right. What it wants is publicity. It wants to publicly humiliate Britain. Allowing it to parade our sailors on TV and then have us wrongly apologise for entering their territory when we didn't is not "defusing" the sitaution, it's outright capitulating to everything they want. Which just means they'll do it again
[06:19] (charlie|) flm: Very true
[06:19] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: I'm glad Germany doesn't do it any more, but it did at one point.
[06:19] (flm) Charlie,, I haven't voted for one in about 1990 !
[06:19] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: http://www.memri.org/bin/opener_latest.cgi?ID=SD152307
[06:19] (charlie|) though the republicans swear up and down they don't use fear tactics
[06:20] (rightooo) Aufklaren ...and dont tell me Britain never negotiated with terrorists ...the MI6 surely does evrything to get abducted british citizens back on home soil ... not changing policies of course ..but maybe givinbg them money
[06:20] (charlie|) That it's only "evil democrats" do such deeds
[06:20] (flm) Charlie and the democrats say they are not Socialist !
[06:20] (charlie|) Indeed
[06:20] (td) Aufklaren: http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=4136§ionid=3510101 check this out
[06:20] (flm) Charlie for thet matter so are the republicans !! !!
[06:20] (charlie|) flm: I will have to say I am enjoying watching republicans burn more or less
[06:20] (Aufk|aren) td: It's either bullshit, or it's made under duress.
[06:20] (Aufk|aren) td: Either way, it's nonsense.
[06:20] (charlie|) Maybe I am slightly bias at the moment
[06:21] (Aufk|aren) td: Britain released its proof today.
[06:21] (rightooo) Germany .... if germany had done it Aufklaren we would have been had many more abductings..we hadnt have em
[06:21] (flm) Charlie they earned it .
[06:21] (td) yeah thats hardly proof
[06:21] (Aufk|aren) td: It showed the sailors were 1.7 nautical miles inside Iraqi territory.
[06:21] (Aufk|aren) td, why don't you fuck off and work for the Iranian propaganda ministry?
[06:21] (Aufk|aren) You seem to be doing a sterling job for free in here.
[06:21] (Aufk|aren) Twat.
[06:21] (charlie|) flm: I am tired of watchign republicans walk around pointing the finger at everyone else denying accountablity for anything they do
[06:21] (rightooo) Aufklaren ... dont tell me BRitain never negotiated with terrorists ...
[06:21] (charlie|) flm: Indeed they did
[06:21] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: It didn't. The only time it ever negotiated was with Sinn Fein.
[06:22] (flm) Charlie sounds like you are talking about Baptist .
[06:22] (rightooo) Aufklaren ...when there are abducted British citizens in Iraq for example ..u can be pretty damn sure that theyre trying to get them out
[06:22] (rightooo) Aufklaren ..by contacting those who did it
[06:22] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: Of course, but we didn't negotiate.
[06:22] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: Talking to their captors isn't the same thing as negotiating.
[06:22] (charlie|) flm: So bias or not, I guess I have to give a smile when I see Bush's approval numbers sink into the mud
[06:22] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: We would never have given them anything in return for the hostages.
[06:22] (td) so your saying the HMS Cornwall had 1.7 nautical miles to deal with the Iranian boats invading iraqi waters and didnt
[06:23] (charlie|) And with that I got to jet
[06:23] (charlie|) ;p
[06:23] (Yaakov) Those Iranians sure know how to write compelling copy:
[06:23] (Yaakov) The first surgery of its kind, carried out in China, has successfully resulted in transplanting spinal discs, taken from three dead young females, into the necks of four men and a woman.
[06:23] (flm) Bye Charlie
[06:23] (rightooo) Aufklaren ,..i think u are wrong ...the gov would never say that they gave them anything..doesnt mean they didnt ...so dont talk like u are the ones who keep the white west ..thast nonsense
[06:23] (Yaakov) "three dead young females"
[06:23] (rightooo) white jacket
[06:23] (flm) Yaakov I need one of them .
[06:23] (Aufk|aren) td: It wouldn't have dealt with the Iranians if they were 17 nautical miles inside Iraqi territory. That was part of the Rules of Engagement.
[06:24] (Aufk|aren) td: And 1.7 nautical miles is just under 2 normal miles.
[06:24] (Aufk|aren) td: Modern boats can cover that pretty fast.
[06:24] (rightooo) Aufklaren ... Germany is not prone to be blackmailed . Period . Never changed policy.
[06:24] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: Except when it has negotiated with terrorists.
[06:24] (rightooo) and so didnt Britain.
[06:24] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: Including releasing 3 of the people responsible for the Munich massacre.
[06:24] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: Which, by the way, was another complete cockup on the German behalf.
[06:25] (flm) Rightoo Germany sure got blackmailed by the Socialist that have taken over there .
[06:25] (flm) Rightooo can you tell I don't like Socialism ?? LOL
[06:26] (Aufk|aren) td: What the sailors say doesn't mean anything. They were paraded on TV last time to "admit" they'd been in Iranian water, and last time they were in Iraqi territory too.
[06:27] (Aufk|aren) td: At this stage, there's no excuse for believing the Iranians. They're full of shit, and anyone with a brain can see it. This had nothing to do with territory - the Iranians carried out a pre-planned operation to snatch British sailors.
[06:27] (td) for what purpose
[06:27] (Yaakov) Feh. http://www.presstv.ir/Detail.aspx?id=2687§ionid=3510208
[06:27] (td) it doesnt give them any leverage
[06:27] (flm) I gotta go,, The real world awaits .
[06:27] (Aufk|aren) Are you a retard? The purpose has been discussed relentlessly.
[06:27] (Aufk|aren) td: Look at any decent sized news article on the issue and it mentions a few.
[06:27] (flm) Or maybe it is just a fanticy world to me,
[06:27] (td) great
[06:28] (Aufk|aren) Also take into account that the head of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards threatened to do just this a few days before they went ahead and did it.
[06:28] (rightooo) Aufklaren ... u said u were negotiating with terrorists in the northern ireland conflict ?
[06:28] (flm) tD are you the Socialist I was debating with last night ?
[06:28] (rightooo) Aufklaren ,...we had a terrorist organisation here in germany too ...there was no negotiating ..
[06:28] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: No, Britain never negotiated with terrorists in Northern Ireland. We negotiated with Sinn Fein. As part of the Good Friday Agreement, we released some prisoners. That was not "negotiating with terrorists" - it was a good will gesture, not in response to a kidnapping or a hijacking.
[06:29] (rightooo) Aufklaren ,,so youre arguments flaw a little bit
[06:29] (Harsen) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU
[06:29] (td) I'm a communist
[06:29] (Harsen) Did they parade the brit soldiers yet?
[06:29] (flm) Rightooo we have terrorist here in Ga, on the streets too,, they're called Latin Gangs !
[06:29] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: There are no flaws. Germany, cravenly, released 3 people responsible for the Munich massacre because of teh Lufthansa kidnap. Britain has never done anything of the sort. No excuses.
[06:29] (Aufk|aren) td: So what are you doing supporting a fascist regime like Iran?
[06:29] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: Note the "photo" illustrating this story. http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=4137§ionid=3510101
[06:29] (flm) td Sorry didn't mean to offend you Comunist then .
[06:30] (rightooo) Aufklaren ... umm .... Britain was kinda "kidnapped" by the brutality and terrorist acts
[06:30] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: Now you're just talking nonsense. Germany capitulated with the 3 Black September terrorists. I don't want to hear any more excuses about how Britain has done anything similar - it hasn't, and that's the end of it.
[06:30] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: lol
[06:30] (flm) Yall have agreat day, God bless you all !
[06:30] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: Is that from a video game?
[06:31] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: Not *only* is that a rendering, they are armed with WWII weapons.
[06:31] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: Who cares what Iranian TV claims? According to BBC, Sky and Reuters.
[06:31] (Aufk|aren) ...
[06:31] (rightooo) Aufklaren .,. u want to believe that ...ok ... dont accuse Germany of negotiating with terrorists
[06:31] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: According to BBC, Sky and Reuters, the woman is about to be believed.
[06:31] (Yaakov) The soldier in the foreground appears to have Iranian insignia.
[06:31] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: Germany did negotiate with terrorists.
[06:31] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: ???
[06:31] (fordnut) LOL @ http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=4137§ionid=3510101
[06:31] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: I don't need to accuse it of anything. I just pointed to the historical record.
[06:31] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: Sorry, I'm conducting two or three conversations at once and it's getting confusing.
[06:32] (Aufk|aren) I meant to say "the female soldier is about to be released."
[06:32] (Yaakov) Heh.
[06:32] (Aufk|aren) Sailor, sorry.
[06:32] (Yaakov) OK, I will leave you alone.
[06:32] (Aufk|aren) No, it's fine.
[06:32] (Aufk|aren) I'm done with rightooo now. :p
[06:32] (td) http://www.presstv.ir/detail_iran.aspx?id=4098§ionid=351020101 heres a good one
[06:32] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: I think the picture is from Call of Duty or a similar game.
[06:33] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: What teriffic journalistic standards.
[06:33] (Yaakov) That site is a joke. I am amazed.
[06:33] (Yaakov) It is reminiscent of Bulgarian World Service Radio in the 80's.
[06:33] (Aufk|aren) td: You like using Iranian state news agencies?
[06:33] (fordnut) that is a good one indeed
[06:33] (td) Yes I do
[06:34] (td) I like to watch it Live too, they stream live on the net
[06:34] (Aufk|aren) td: Any explanation for why a communist such as yourself would find such common purpose with a backwards, theocratic, totalitarian fascist regime like Iran?
[06:34] (Aufk|aren) td: The enemy of your enemy is a friend in class war, eh?
[06:34] (fordnut) Live from Tehran! It's Wednesday Night!
[06:34] (td) Im not really a communist, I just thought flm's question was pretty stupid
[06:34] (td) anyone says anything he doesnt agree with and he asks them if they are "socialists"
[06:35] (Aufk|aren) td: What's with your Iran sympathising anyway?
[06:35] (Harsen) LONDON, England (CNN) -- Satellite tracking data shows that a group of 15 British military personnel captured by Iran last Friday never strayed outside Iraqi waters, according to Britain's Ministry of Defence.
[06:35] (Harsen) British Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett also announced Wednesday that Britain would freeze all bilateral business with Iran until the 15 personnel were released.
[06:35] (Harsen) "We are now in a new phase of diplomatic activity," Beckett told members of parliament.
[06:36] (fordnut) nice
[06:36] (TheTailor) td can be taken as just as honest as the Iranians, in short, he's dishonest.
[06:36] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: I think it's starting to work. Apparently the female sailor is going to be released in a "day or two."
[06:37] (Harsen) Aufk|aren, She may just be released coz shes a woman.
[06:37] (Harsen) We'll see about the other 14
[06:37] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: Right.
[06:38] (fordnut) I wonder if this 'surge' is aimed more at bulking up forces for an attack on Iran
[06:39] (fordnut) or the reprecussions of an airstrike
[06:39] (Aufk|aren) fordnut: Well, they're ground forces. There wont be a ground invasion of Iran, and even if there was there isn't nearly enough in the surge.
[06:39] (fordnut) I dunno auf
[06:40] (fordnut) definitely not enough for an occupation
[06:40] (fordnut) but certainly enough to go in and kill people and break things
[06:40] (fordnut) before returning to Iraq
[06:42] (rightooo) Aufklaren : LONDON, July 28 -- The Irish Republican Army formally declared an end Thursday to its three-decade-long armed struggle against British rule in Northern Ireland and pledged to pursue its aims of a united Ireland through "exclusively peaceful means."
[06:42] (rightooo) British and Irish leaders said they hoped the statement, brokered in negotiations between the IRA's political representatives and officials in London and Dublin, would revive the province's stagnant peace process and bring a final end to sectarian violence known as "the Troubles" that has killed more than 3,600 Catholics and Protestants since 1969.
[06:42] (rightooo) Aufklaren : "negotiations between IRAs political represantatives and offisials in London and Dublin"
[06:43] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: That's Sinn Fein.
[06:43] (Aufk|aren) Rightooo: Let me repeat this: talking with terrorists is not "negotiating" with them. Britain has *never* acquiesced to the demands made by terrorists, hijackers or kidnappers.
[06:43] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: Germany has, and that's the difference.
[06:43] (rightooo) IRAs political represantatives .... if their terorist theyre terrorists ...they were negotiating with them over Sinn Fein
[06:44] (Aufk|aren) You haven't a clue what you're talking about, do you?
[06:44] (Aufk|aren) Sinn Fein is the IRA's political wing.
[06:44] (Aufk|aren) Sinn Fein itself are not terrorists.
[06:44] (rightooo) Aufklaren ... so theres no real truth in you saying Britain never negotiated with terrorists
[06:45] (Aufk|aren) Britain negotiated with Sinn Fein (and loyalists) to reach the Good Friday Agreement. The result of which is that the Northern Ireland conflict is over, and just a couple of days ago a power-sharing agreement was reached for the devolution of powers.
[06:45] (Aufk|aren) On the other hand, Germany caved into the demands of terrorist hijackers and released three people guilty of the Munich massacre.
[06:45] (Aufk|aren) Britain has *never* negotiated with terrorists, and it has certainly never given in to the demands of hijackers, kidnappers nad terrorists. Unlike Germany.
[06:45] (Aufk|aren) and*
[06:46] (rightooo) Aufklaren ..they were negotiating with terrorist ... with the help of Sinn Fein ..u cant deny that
[06:46] (Aufk|aren) No, they negotiated with Sinn Fein.
[06:46] (Aufk|aren) And you're missing the point.
[06:46] (Aufk|aren) Britain never gave into the demands of hijackers or kidnappers.
[06:47] (rightooo) Sinn Fein : IRA (terrorists) political arm
[06:47] (Aufk|aren) Discussing with the political representatives of a terrorist group, who are not themselves terrorists, in order to reach a peace agreement is one thing.
[06:47] (Aufk|aren) Giving into the specific demands of a group of hijacking terrorists is something else.
[06:47] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: Black September was essentially an arm of Fatah. Talking with Fatah would not have been negotiating with Black September - which is what Germany did.
[06:48] (rightooo) Aufklaren ...germany never negotiated with the terrorists in germany ...neitehr with their political arms ...
[06:48] (Aufk|aren) Yes, it did.
[06:48] (Aufk|aren) You're just lying now.
[06:48] (Aufk|aren) Germany gave into the demands of the Lufthansa hijackers.
[06:48] (Aufk|aren) Stop trying to excuse it and move on.
[06:48] (Aufk|aren) Germany released three of the people responsible for the Munich massacre.
[06:48] (rightooo) Aufklaren ... im talking about the RAF
[06:48] (Aufk|aren) Which, if Germany had been prepared for that sort of thing, would never have happened in the first place.
[06:48] (rightooo) red army fraction
[06:49] (Aufk|aren) We're not talking about the RAF. We're talking about the Black September organisation.
[06:49] (Aufk|aren) I know who the RAF were. :p
[06:49] (rightooo) Aufklaren ,,then u know there was no negotiating with em right :)
[06:49] (Aufk|aren) Germany gave in to the specific demands of the Lufthansa hijackers. It released three murderers responsible for the Munich massacres.
[06:49] (Aufk|aren) No excuses, those are the facts.
[06:50] (rightooo) Aufklaren ... in fact i think its a good thing that they negotiated with Sinn Fein ,.,though they represent the IRA ...well u know i wont put it on teh brits ...its good to have peace
[06:50] (rightooo) and this conflict in Northern Island is bad :(
[06:51] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: Put it this way, Britain never gave into the demands of the IRA, or any of the other republican terrorist groups. No hijacking, no kidnapping and no terrorist outrage resulted in the release of prisoners or a change in government policy.
[06:51] (rightooo) ok ..german gov made a mistake back then...wont happen again ..happened once wont happen again...and its good to have the passengers of that Lufthansa jet alive
[06:51] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: The conflict is essentially over now.
[06:51] (TheTailor) rightooo, you have to understand something, the generation before you in Germany (not those involved in WWII) voluntarily had their spine removed, that's when you started negotiating with terrorists and appeasing them.
[06:51] (TheTailor) rightooo, sadly, it's only gotten worse with your generation.
[06:52] (cyberfrg) WASHINGTON -- In a child's buffet of food commercials, more than 40 percent of the dishes are candy, snacks and fast food. Nowhere to be found: fresh fruit, vegetables, poultry or seafood.
[06:52] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: There has been peace between the major groups since the Good Friday Agreement. Only a few days ago, the leader of Sinn Fein and DUP (the hardline group representing the loyalists) sat down and signed a truly historic power-sharing agreement. It's over and done with.
[06:52] (cyberfrg) *GASP*
[06:52] (TheTailor) rightooo, the days of strong willed ruthless Germans are gone, sad really.
[06:52] (cyberfrg) For years, health officials have warned that kids were being inundated with commercials about not-so-healthy foods. Now, researchers have put numbers to those warnings in the largest-ever study of commercials aimed at children.
[06:52] (rightooo) TheTailor ..who in germany was appeasing terrorists?
[06:52] (cyberfrg) how dare ad agencies advertise junk food and not vegitables
[06:53] (TheTailor) rightooo, look at you acted when it came to confronting Saddam, you sat on the fence.
[06:53] (rightooo) Aufklaren ..let me put it this way ...Britain didnt changed its policy ... Germany didnt change its policy also...
[06:53] (rightooo) never did under terrorist pressure
[06:53] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: Germany released murderers responsible for the Munich massacre thogh.
[06:53] (Aufk|aren) though*
[06:54] (Aufk|aren) Like I said, it wouldn't even have been in that situation if the German police hadn't been so incompetent during the Munich crisis itself.
[06:54] (rightooo) policy .. there were released three prisoners ...i dont even know and u also if there was negotiating! they just wanted to get rid of em
[06:54] (TheTailor) rightooo, Saddam was a terrorist and openly supported them, but doing business with him outside the sanctions was more important than standing up and doing the right thing to Germany, pathetic.
[06:54] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: They wanted to get rid of them, right. To appease the terrorists which had demanded their release, and who had kidnapped the Lufthansa jet.
[06:54] (rightooo) Aufklaren ,..thats why the GSG9 was bult ...they proved to be very efficient in the Luftansa abducting in 1977 ..Moigadishu
[06:55] (cyberfrg) time and time again we have seen that negotiating with terrorists only compounds the problem, when will people (especially israel) get the hint
[06:55] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: If the situation happened again, I don't think Germany would release them. I think it has learned its lesson. But it did at one point.
[06:55] (rightooo) TheTailor ...lol u want to go after germany ...seriously? look at your own closet...
[06:56] (RiverRat) Got to love the thought processes on this one: http://politics.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/28/0236232
[06:56] (rightooo) Aufklaren ..oh well and Britain negotiated with the IRA at one point
[06:57] (Aufk|aren) No, it didn't.
[06:57] (Aufk|aren) Stop the bullshit and move on.
[06:57] (TheTailor) rightooo, we haven't had our balls removed, like you have.
[06:57] (Yaakov) http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=20163
[06:58] (rightooo) Aufklaren ...it makes me angry to hear that stuff ... Germany is not a country that did bad stuff the last 50 years .... on teh contrary its a well respected nation ...and ...we didnt support the wrong war in Iraq
[06:58] (rightooo) Aufklaren ..so if u talk about a nation doing bad things we could talk about Iraq dude
[06:58] (cyberfrg) respected nation?
[06:58] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: You're right, Germany is a well-respected nation. That's because it is now a peaceful, open and friendly nation.
[06:58] (cyberfrg) germany is guilty of serious, serious government funded censorship
[06:58] (rightooo) TheTailor ..balls removed???
[06:58] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: The problem is that it went a bit too far in the peaceful direction when it appeased the demands of terrorists and released the murderers responsible for Munich.
[06:59] (TheTailor) rightooo, Germany is seen as a pacifist appeaser.
[06:59] (Lupine) The same germany where they arrest parents who wish to home school their children?
[06:59] (RiverRat) The problem I have with Germany is that they want to enforce their limits on free speech on the WORLD!
[06:59] (rightooo) TheTailor ... *yaaaaaawn*
[06:59] (rightooo) x)
[07:00] (TheTailor) rightooo, that's exactly re response we would expect.
[07:00] (RiverRat) Being in favor of free speech isn't about listening to people preach what you believe in; it is about listeening to someone spout the most soul wrenching vile things you've ever heard of and STILL defending their right to say it.
[07:00] (rightooo) TheTailor ..i didnt knew u didnt know that german troops are now stationed in Afghanistan
[07:00] (TheTailor) rightooo, oh? Leaders on the battlefield?
[07:01] (Lupine) in any event, you can not claim that it has been 50 years since germany has done anything terrible.. i mean.. berlin wall.. hello?
[07:01] (TheTailor) rightooo, what German field marshall is running it?
[07:01] (rightooo) TheTailor ... oh u want the german field marshalls back xD
[07:01] (rightooo) TheTailor ...im happy there are no more of em ...we had them ..in the dark times u know
[07:02] (TheTailor) rightooo, I was always impressed with germany's ruthlessness, pre 1970.
[07:02] (OcDoc) "dark times?"
[07:02] (OcDoc) rofl
[07:02] (TheTailor) rightooo, since then you have been neutered and had your spine removed.
[07:02] (rightooo) TheTailor ...since when is ruthlessness a good thing?
[07:02] (TheTailor) rightooo, and frankly, you are the whining crying result.
[07:02] (rightooo) and what happened before 1970 in germany?
[07:02] (TheTailor) rightooo, since the begining of time.
[07:02] (OcDoc) it's too bad a whole culture can't be described in psychiatric times ... it would be fun to use the DSM-IIR on Germany
[07:03] (OcDoc) terms
[07:03] (Harsen) TheTailor, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU
[07:03] (OcDoc) manic depressive?
[07:03] (Harsen) Peruse that if you get a chance
[07:05] (OcDoc) obsessive compulsive?
[07:05] (Lupine) rightooo: Oh I dunno.. shooting people in the back as they tried to escape the oppression?
[07:05] (rightooo) TheTailor ... u r very rude
[07:06] (TheTailor) rightooo, sorry, I call them as I see them.
[07:06] (Lupine) TheTailor: you are supposed to just accept the human rights violations of germany.. and think they are a GOOD thing :-)
[07:06] (rightooo) TheTailor .,..and Germany has not been whatever and has not been removed anything ...thats bullshit
[07:06] (rightooo) TheTailor ..and im not whining or crying,...im thoughtful
[07:07] (rightooo) TheTailor ...seems like u are not very thoughtful sometiems
[07:07] (TheTailor) rightooo, you are cowering appeasers, it's just pathetic. :-(
[07:07] (OcDoc) it is wise to ponder the misdeeds of past generations and wonder whether your own generation would be capable of such horrible nightmares
[07:07] (rightooo) Lupine ...between end of war and 1970 ...not in the dark times
[07:07] (rightooo) shitty nazis
[07:08] (Lupine) rightooo: ah, so the whole berlin wall, east/west germany didn't happen?
[07:08] (OcDoc) rightooo: the nazis would not have been possible if not for the support of a large portion of the german people
[07:08] (Lupine) shooting a mother with her two kids in the back, and leaving her corpse hanging on the barb wire fence.. didn't happen?
[07:08] (rightooo) TheTailor ...cowering appeasers .... oh well ... u r wrong ...
[07:09] (OcDoc) rightooo: swinging back and forth between extremes is not healthy
[07:09] (rightooo) Lupine ... what???
[07:09] (TheTailor) rightooo, no, I'm not wrong, I've seen it longer than you have been alive, and the most recent glaring example is your support of Saddam.
[07:09] (rightooo) Lupine ..i didnt say Berlin wall didnt happen wtf
[07:10] (rightooo) Lupine ...i asked TheTailor what he so liked about german policy before 1970s ...
[07:10] (Lupine) you said that Germany hasn't done anything in the last 50 years
[07:10] (OcDoc) warning! sometimes wars are justified and even necessary
[07:11] (Lupine) war is hell, but it often is the only way to peace.
[07:11] (rightooo) TheTailor ...umm .-.no support for Saddam ...i didnt see german foreign minister chaking hands with saddam ...but i saw picturwes of Rumsfeld shaking hands with him
[07:11] (OcDoc) the best position is to go to war reluctantly, and fight the war to win if necessary
[07:11] (JanetB) oh please
[07:11] (rightooo) Lupine ..i was talking about WEST GERMANY
[07:11] (rightooo) and all of germany since 1990s
[07:11] (rightooo) darn -.-
[07:11] (TheTailor) rightooo, now you are changing the subject, a common dodge by appeasers to fearful to stand up to terror.
[07:11] (Lupine) rightooo: you are? strange, you didn't mention "west" until just now.
[07:12] (JanetB) thats just sick, to say rumsfield shoow hands with saddam what 15 years ago?
[07:12] (JanetB) get a life
[07:12] (rightooo) Lupine ...im not a fan of the DDR lol
[07:12] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: I think he thought it was a follow-on from our conversation, when we were talking about W. Germany.
[07:12] (TheTailor) JanetB, it's silly, and there are pictures of Germans shaking hands with Saddam after that, shaking hands is universal. Germany did business with Saeean during the sanctions.
[07:13] (rightooo) TheTailor ...Europe are no appeasers as germany is not an appeaser ....if i would argue like u ...i would call USA and Britain guilty of warcrimes ...but because im thoughtful ..i dont
[07:13] (Lupine) Aufk|aren: ah.. well, the other issues remain. suppression of free speech, arrest of any parent who wishes to home school their child,etc.
[07:13] (OcDoc) TheTailor: but it was civilized business, not supportive business
[07:13] (cyberfrg) rightooo: but you just did say that
[07:14] (td) BAGHDAD - Shiite militants and police enraged by massive truck bombings in the northwestern town of Tal Afar went on a revenge spree against Sunni residents there Wednesday, killing as many as 60 people, officials said.
[07:14] (TheTailor) rightooo,no, youdon't argue that the US and the Brits are guilty of war crimes because it's untrue.
[07:14] (Lupine) rightooo: if i would argue like you.. i would question if you have stopped beating your wife... but because i'm thoughtful..i dont
[07:14] (OcDoc) TheTailor: the Germans thoughtfully and non-supportively made secret deals with Saddam and stabbed the US in the back
[07:14] (td) not only do you have the bomb that killed 60+ people, you got the Iraqi Police and militants killing 60 in revenge
[07:14] (TheTailor) OcDoc, and the UN
[07:14] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: Well, I don't think the homeschooling issue is one of freedom. I don't see anything inherently unfree with making kids go to school - all societies, even ones with liberal homeschooling laws, make the homeschooled kids sit series of standardised tests and keep up with a standard of education. On the other issue, Holocaust denial and so on, you're right - it should not be illegal in Germany.
[07:15] (cyberfrg) td: iraqi police were involved? url?
[07:15] (TheTailor) td, where did it say the Iraqi police killed anyone?
[07:15] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: I think it's sort of excusable, because of the fears in Germany, Austria and a few other countries of a resurgence of fascism. But, in the end, I think it's wrong. It does harm free speech, and it probably doesn't help anyway - making it illegal is probably just likely to fuel the feeling of oppression and that the government are covering up the "truth."
[07:15] (td) http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070328/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq
[07:16] (td) it clearly says that iraqi cops were involved
[07:16] (rightooo) TheTailor ... u have an aggressive way to discuss things ... u accuse the Europeans to be appeasers .... i will tell u what the difference is between Europeans and Americans : Europeans ..espoecially germans know the Horrors of war on home soil... the population knows what war is ...and we have had many wars in Europe ... that maybe explains why Europeans and americans often think difficult about war and the use of force
[07:16] (Lupine) Aufk|aren: i think it is dangerious.. i mean, i would want to know publically who all were of that mindset.
[07:16] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: Right. And banning it only drives it underground. It makes people think the government are trying to hide the truth. You only have to listen to Holocaust deniers - they claim Germany bans it because they knw it's "true."
[07:17] (TheTailor) Shiite cops *reportedly* rampage vs. Sunnis....no proof whatsoever.
[07:17] (rightooo) TheTailor ..and u just sit there and talk shit without even trying to understand why people may have other thoughts than you have ..
[07:17] (JanetB) we do not know the horrors of war, when we lost thousands upon thousands saving your butts?
[07:17] (JanetB) heh
[07:17] (JanetB) should have let russia have germany too
[07:17] (Aufk|aren) JanetB: Not the horror of war on one's home territory.
[07:17] (TheTailor) rightooo, I didn't accuse Europeans in general, you are spinning, I accused GERMANS.
[07:17] (td) No proof, they just arrested these police
[07:17] (rightooo) TheTailor ..and u r unable to conceed when u r wrong ,.,,thats not strong ..but weakness
[07:17] (JanetB) hey we had a civil war on our soil :)
[07:18] (Lupine) Aufk|aren um, the US civil war was exceptionally brutal
[07:18] (Aufk|aren) Woops. Dropped my keyboard, and managed to somehow exit the window when I caught it.
[07:18] (TheTailor) rightooo, I never refused to admit if I was wrong, I haven't been shown as wrong.
[07:18] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: I should have said in living memory. And even the US civil war was nothing compared to happen to a lot of Europe during WWII.
[07:18] (Aufk|aren) what happened*
[07:19] (JanetB) Aufk|aren, and we still lost thousands upon thousands
[07:19] (JanetB) defending you
[07:19] (JanetB) we didn't have to
[07:19] (Aufk|aren) Neither did Britain.
[07:19] (Aufk|aren) We could have made a deal with Germany and kept our empire.
[07:19] (rightooo) TheTailor ... sorry to say ..its so dumb to call germans appeasers ... german gov is very thoughtful about when to use force and when to go to war..and im happy about that...same with France
[07:19] (Aufk|aren) We lost that, had our capital mostly obliterated and nearly went under because of WWII.
[07:19] (Aufk|aren) We didn't have to fight it either.
[07:20] (Aufk|aren) And, by the way, you didn't save our butts.
[07:20] (JanetB) britain was being attacked
[07:20] (Aufk|aren) You liberated Europe, but Britain was already safe.
[07:20] (Aufk|aren) No, Britain was already safe when America entered the war.
[07:20] (rightooo) TheTailor ..people who say that they are never wrong are liars ...because nobody can always be right
[07:20] (Aufk|aren) We defeated Germany in the Battle of Britain.
[07:20] (Aufk|aren) After that, Hitler called off any plans to invade Britain.
[07:20] (Aufk|aren) We could never have won the war in Europe without American help.
[07:20] (Aufk|aren) But we wouldn't have been defeated by Germany.
[07:21] (Aufk|aren) Operation Sea Lion - the German plan to invade Britain - was contingent on the Battle of Britain.
[07:21] (TheTailor) rightooo, as I said, you are a prime example of what Germany has become, once known as a strong willed people, you are now spineless and cowering, I'm saddened by it.
[07:21] (JanetB) Aufk|aren, and had Hitler conquered more countries, and conscripted more to fight and had gone after you again?
[07:21] (Aufk|aren) Which we won.
[07:21] (JanetB) I have no problem supporting britian, do not get me wrong
[07:21] (TheTailor) rightooo, you are spinning again, I never said I was never wrong.
[07:22] (JanetB) but Germany and france, and them turning on us.. not that makes me mad
[07:22] (Aufk|aren) JanetB: I don't think he really could have. Maybe if he'd been able to conquer Russia and get the resources in the Ukraine and southern Russia, he might have been able to overwhelm us eventually.
[07:22] (rightooo) TheTailor ..once strong ..oh u mean the "Reich" ...talking Austria ..Poland ..Czech Republic ..France ...yes what a great strong time that was ..bullshit
[07:22] (Aufk|aren) JanetB: But, for all intents and purposes, Britain was safe from invasion after around May 1941.
[07:23] (Aufk|aren) JanetB: Many Americans volunteered for the RAF and gave their lives in the Battle of Britain though.
[07:23] (cyberfrg) Aufk|aren: except if germany had not been defeated you surley would have been a target again
[07:23] (JanetB) Aufk|aren, yes they did
[07:23] (Aufk|aren) JanetB: Most volunteers were Polish or from the Commonwealth (primarily Canada and Australia).
[07:23] (Lupine) Aufk|aren: what was the time relationship between the end of the airbattle of britian versus the start of operation barbarossa?
[07:23] (Aufk|aren) cyberfrg: Well, Germany completely called off plans to invade Britain. Hitler didn't even want to beat us in the first place - he thought he'd come to a deal with Britain.
[07:23] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: Barbarossa started after Britain failed.
[07:24] (Lupine) frankly, i think supporting USSR was one of the largest mistakes ever made in world history
[07:24] (cyberfrg) Aufk|aren: if i recall he didn't call off plans completely, he refocused on the eastern campaign and secured his western positions. if he had been sucessful in the east he surely would have made another attempt
[07:24] (CryHavoc) Hitlers egomania prevented a victory over England
[07:24] (Aufk|aren) cyberfrg: I think, eventually, if Germany had beaten Russia and got the important resources in the south, then perhaps Hitler would eventually have tried to topple the British government and put a friendly one in.
[07:24] (Lupine) we should have stood back, and allow nationa-socialism slug it out with communists.
[07:25] (TheTailor) rightooo, umm, no, I didn't mention the "Reich", you new age cowardly peaceniks in Germany always refer to that.
[07:25] * cyberfrg nods
[07:25] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: Well, it was either that or let the Germans win. I don't think the Soviets could have won without Allied (particularly American) help.
[07:25] (CryHavoc) Hitler could have succeeded in the east too...he did not wnt the ukranians and such as allies
[07:25] (Lupine) Aufk|aren: well.. yes/no. germany would have a hell of a time going all the way to siberia
[07:25] (CryHavoc) Germany has Peacifists...
[07:26] (cyberfrg) i think it was absolutly amazing how russia managed to hang on by a thread
[07:26] (cyberfrg) by shear will power
[07:26] (CryHavoc) th most virulent sort of anti-war/nuke protestors
[07:26] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: America gave the Soviets something like 20 times as many trains as it itself produced. The Soviets simply couldn't have kept the supply lines going without American supplies.
[07:26] (CryHavoc) cyber....they won by simple attrition..
[07:26] (cyberfrg) yup
[07:26] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: Then again, that was because the Soviets were spending it all on trains, bullets, etc.
[07:26] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: err...
[07:26] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: Tanks, planes, bullets, etc. I meant.
[07:26] (Lupine) Aufk|aren: yea, but germany only got what.. 1/6th of the way into USSR before being stopped
[07:27] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: It didn't need to go much further. If it had got the Ukraine and the Caucuses, it would have had Russia's major agricultural and oil-producing regions.
[07:27] (CryHavoc) if you have lets say 30,000 crack troops fromGermany....what chance will you have if I send in the armored equiv...plus 200,000 men??
[07:27] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: That would have been enough to finish it off sooner or later.
[07:27] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: That was the whole point of Operation Blue.
[07:27] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: Hitler knew Germany couldn't survive in the long-run unless it had Ukraine and the Caucuses.
[07:27] (JanetB) love this.. the congress, surrendered, and then they picked the pockets of the american people, for 28 million in new taxes... for pork
[07:28] (Lupine) maybe.. but i do not think Hitler would be content until germany troops were looking across the berring straights at alaska
[07:28] (CryHavoc) JanetB..what did you expect??
[07:28] (TheTailor) JanetB, billion
[07:28] (CryHavoc) Damnocrat ...Republicant...both the same
[07:28] (JanetB) oh sorry 28 billion
[07:28] (JanetB) 87 pages of pork!
[07:28] (Lupine) yea.. ted kennedy farts more than 28million
[07:28] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: Right, that would have been his eventual goal. But the primary reason Hitler wanted to invade Germany was to get the resources it badly needed in Ukraine and the Caucuses. I think if it had got them, he would have slowed down, dug in and waited until he could simply out-produce anyone else.
[07:29] (Aufk|aren) ... invade Russia, sorry.
[07:29] (TheTailor) JanetB, well that'show they bought the votes.
[07:29] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: that's what I remember learning in history class, anyway. ;)
[07:29] (JanetB) and churk hagel jumped ship he has to be fired
[07:30] (cyberfrg) hitler made the same mistake napolean did
[07:30] (Lupine) Aufk|aren: could be.. but i think it would have been better for the world if the USSR suffered far worse during that time.
[07:30] (Aufk|aren) Hitler shouldn't have bothered with Western Europe at all.
[07:30] (Aufk|aren) He should have charged straight into Russia.
[07:30] (BonafiedL) gee Janet, I can't IMAGINE what party you worship
[07:30] (rightooo) TheTailor ...Germany is still strong ..in a better way than in timeso f the "3rd Reich" ...especially in its world view
[07:31] (JanetB) BonafiedL.. sure is not the theifs in the dem party
[07:31] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: the Soviets already suffered pretty badly. I don't think there was much at all we could do about Eastern Europe. I think the Soviets were going to get that anyway - unless the Germans did. I think, in the end, it was better with the Soviets than the Nazis.
[07:31] (BonafiedL) i see Janet.. Tell me, how have they "stolen" from you
[07:31] (JanetB) and hagel is a (R) he needs to be fired
[07:31] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: If it hadn't been for the US, the Soviets would have "liberated" all of Western Europe too. I think we should be grateful we managed to get the dividing line in Germany. ;)
[07:32] (JanetB) 28 billion of pork in an emergency bill for the military, is stealing
[07:32] (Lupine) well, i think that if the USSR had been ground down for another few years.. it would be bettre
[07:32] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: I dunno. I don't think there was anything we could have done to prevent it getting Eastern Europe. If it had been ground down any more, it would simply have lost.
[07:32] (JanetB) what do the dems need 10 MILLION of my TAX dollar for their conventions for?
[07:32] (CryHavoc) Lupine..or if we kicked them back to Moscow
[07:33] (JanetB) raise there own money for there OWN conventions
[07:33] (CryHavoc) that would have been a bad war though
[07:33] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: The Red Army was already stretched to breaking point. Any further and the Nazis would simply have won.
[07:33] (VT) Good morning folks.
[07:33] (CryHavoc) Auf....not really
[07:33] (Aufk|aren) Sure it was. Stalingrad, Kursk, etc. were skin of the teeth things.
[07:33] (CryHavoc) Stalin remarked once..he was short on everything...but soldiers
[07:33] (Aufk|aren) A bit the other way, and that would have been it.
[07:33] (JanetB) oh and I do not worship the R party
[07:33] (cyberfrg) JanetB: all i have to say is ... "line item veto"
[07:34] (rightooo) TheTailor : "new age cowardly peaceniks in Germany" ... Germany is an ally of the USA my friend .... we have troops in Afghanistan ... u have a warped view on things .. what u said is something others may get devoiced for ..regarded as "trolling"
[07:34] (Lupine) Aufk|aren: naw.. the USSR still had what.. how many hundreds of millions of citizens?
[07:34] (JanetB) cyberfr0g.. the SC says that is unconstitutional
[07:34] (CryHavoc) JanetB has an alter in her basement where she sacrifices to the GOP
[07:34] (JanetB) lolol cry
[07:34] (JanetB) you know we do not have basements in Az
[07:34] (cyberfrg) lol
[07:34] (PickleWrk) The Germans aren't as bad as the Italians who, as usual, are proving to be liabilities in the field.
[07:34] (cyberfrg) wait, no basements in az?!
[07:34] (CryHavoc) what JanetB wants people to think...
[07:34] (CryHavoc) why she gets away with it
[07:34] (cyberfrg) JanetB: why no basements?
[07:34] (PickleWrk) The Germans aren't as bad as the Italians who, as usual, are proving to be liabilities in the field.
[07:34] (CryHavoc) no drainage in the ground..
[07:35] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: Right, but it had even more at the start of the war with Germany and that didn't help. Like I was saying before, if Operation Blue had succeeded, that would have been it. Hitler would have had the Ukraine and the Caucuses, and it would be over and done with.
[07:35] (PickleWrk) Okay, this cgi client sucks ass.
[07:35] (JanetB) cyberfr0g.. I have no idea! they should!!! silly not to all that lost storage
[07:35] (CryHavoc) in Northern AZ it is different
[07:35] (CryHavoc) Phoenix and all points south..no basements
[07:35] (t0tgiglz) cryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
[07:35] (Lupine) Aufk|aren: well.. i do not think Hitler would have been content. Nor would he have waited to go after the rest.
[07:35] (Aufk|aren) Aufk|aren: There's a reason people say Stalingrad was the turning point of the war. If Hitler had won, I don't think anything could have stopped him.
[07:35] (CryHavoc) gigglzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
[07:35] (CryHavoc) Las Vegas..no basements
[07:35] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: Right, but I think the difference is that if Operation Blue had succeeded, he probably would have succeeded.
[07:36] (CryHavoc) nor in Souther Florida
[07:36] (Lupine) All his generals, yes.. would say to regroup. But Hitler wouldn't have waited one day.
[07:36] (CryHavoc) water table in FL about 6 inche below the ground
[07:36] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: The Soviets were just as bad - fighting to the last man. It was only around Operation Blue that they realised that tactical retreat had some merit.
[07:36] (VT) Russian military intelligence services are reporting a flurry of activity by U.S. Armed Forces near Iran's borders, a high-ranking security source said Tuesday.
[07:36] (CryHavoc) Hitler was too easily distracted...
[07:36] (VT) hehe, shield bounding from the spartans?
[07:36] (PickleWrk) VT: Who'da thunk it?
[07:36] (CryHavoc) and his ego was his own enemy too
[07:36] (VT) http://en.rian.ru/russia/20070327/62697703.html
[07:36] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: Really, that's what saved them in Operation Blue. If they'd kept the massive salient instead of falling back to Stalingrad and the Volga, they'd have been fully encircled.
[07:36] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: brb
[07:37] (Harsen) Honestly, the UK is losing a ton of face over this deal
[07:37] (Harsen) Iran is making a mockery of them and their navy
[07:37] (Harsen) The UK should just bomb the shit out of them
[07:37] (CryHavoc) Harsen....nahh not PC...
[07:37] (Harsen) Nothing is PC in war
[07:37] (JanetB) Harsen..... but the people!!
[07:37] (CryHavoc) Now if KhorramShahr were to have a serrious accident..
[07:37] (PickleWrk) If it doesn't happen this time, the next time the Iranians capture soldiers they will be executed.
[07:37] (VT) He said the Pentagon is looking for a way to deliver a strike against Iran "that would enable the Americans to bring the country to its knees at minimal cost."
[07:37] (CryHavoc) Iran has bitten off more then it can chew this time
[07:37] (JanetB) you have to listen to the people!! except when it comes to stealing money
[07:37] (cyberfrg) http://phoenix.about.com/cs/real/a/basements01_2.htm
[07:37] (CryHavoc) Ahmadinejad still must think it is 1979
[07:37] (Harsen) Pickle, Boortz or Scrub today?
[07:38] (cyberfrg) about basements in arizona
[07:38] (PickleWrk) Harsen: Live Boortz
[07:38] (Lupine) Harsen: Does Mr Ahm... have a young daughter living in his palace? ala Quadafi?
[07:38] (PickleWrk) Yesterday was a best-of show
[07:38] (JanetB) cyberfr0g.. no one builds them
[07:38] (pilgrim`) Iran is a enigma politically. the culture, and people's mind set is NOT at all like the west
[07:38] (CryHavoc) Cyber..no drainage in the dirt there
[07:38] (cyberfrg) that's not any of the reasons given so far
[07:38] (CryHavoc) you build a basement in Phoenix..it will fill with water
[07:38] (cyberfrg) and according to this more and more are being built
[07:38] (pilgrim`) Cry or New Mexico
[07:39] (CryHavoc) same with Las Vega
[07:39] (CryHavoc) s
[07:39] (cyberfrg) they say it's building costs
[07:39] (JanetB) cyber, then it is a new thing
[07:39] (CryHavoc) and Southern Florida
[07:39] (pilgrim`) most of that area has aunque sort of earth
[07:39] (JanetB) but they are very very expensive
[07:39] (CryHavoc) in Southern FL..water table is 6 inches below ground level
[07:39] (VT) The circus that is congress and Leftie politics right, is a distraction and lame stupidness. At it's core its childish attention antics like a petulant kid wanting daddy's attent whilst dad is driving 80 miles an hour down the road.
[07:39] (pilgrim`) basements are stupid in the SW
[07:39] (Lupine) cyberfr0g: of course its costs.. you COULD put a basement anywhere if you have yingyangs of $$$ for installed drainage pumps, etc
[07:39] (CryHavoc) yep
[07:39] (CryHavoc) Adobe or poly steel
[07:39] (cyberfrg) Not really. In colder parts of the country the foundation of a home must be set below the frost line. That means that they have to dig down several feet anyway. The additional few feet to put in a basement is not that significant. But here in Arizona, we only have to dig about 18 inches to put in a foundation, so putting in a basement for a builder represents a significant extra effort than is required.
[07:39] (JanetB) no they aren't.. they would be great, I miss all the storage area
[07:40] (pilgrim`) if you need the storage room, build an Adobe shed
[07:40] (CryHavoc) JanetB has her own storage cave...that is where her GOP alter is
[07:40] (Lupine) or shit, just build a 2 story house, and call the 1st one "the basement"
[07:40] (JanetB) shed fall apart here
[07:40] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: If we just start bombing them, we wont get our people back. Military action should be a consideration secondary to that.
[07:40] (cyberfrg) lol
[07:40] (JanetB) and they are not big enough
[07:40] (cyberfrg) i wouldn't build a house without a basement
[07:40] (cyberfrg) infact i'm building a house right now
[07:41] (CryHavoc) JanetB's main hobby: Hunting for the lucky Dutchman gold mine
[07:41] (PickleWrk) I'd think you'd want a basement in the SW. When it gets too hot you can just go downstairs.
[07:41] (VT) Seriously, I think congress will be seen as crazy if Iran war brakes out.
[07:41] (pilgrim`) I lived in NM for a lifetime. I have lived in the south in Alamogordo (Near L0c0), and the northern mountains near Santa Fe. Heck I lived in Santa Fe one year
[07:41] (Harsen) Aufk|aren, How about this for a plan, blockade Iranian shipping and disable their refineries so they have no fuel for their economy or army
[07:41] (CryHavoc) Picklewrk..they will flood out
[07:41] (VT) Man how will the Dems handle that.
[07:41] (PickleWrk) CryHavoc: Ah.
[07:41] (CryHavoc) SW USA does not really have dirt...
[07:41] (VT) I could not see away to dig out .
[07:41] (pilgrim`) the climate is not at all good for basements
[07:41] (JanetB) Pickle.. when monsoons hit you would be flooded
[07:41] (CryHavoc) they have what is called Caliche
[07:41] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: I don't think the Americans would "let" us. If we do that, oil prices will go through the roof.
[07:41] (t0tgiglz) lol cry
[07:41] (Harsen) i suppose
[07:42] (CryHavoc) sedimentary clay ..as hard as rock...with no drainage
[07:42] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: I advocated blockading the Shatt al-Arab, but the affect on oil prices would be impossible.
[07:42] (PickleWrk) We get flooding here, too... Many houses have sump pumps for that.
[07:42] (VT) What could you say. Mr President we were with you all the way, just wanted to make sure Iraqies knew we coudl not stay forever?
[07:42] (pilgrim`) yeah its a clay mixed with volcanic ash called tufa
[07:42] (PickleWrk) Sadly, our house does not so currently the northwest corner of my basement is soaked due to the runoff.
[07:42] (CryHavoc) when it rains where tere is caliche.....it floods
[07:42] (PickleWrk) It's all clay here.
[07:42] (pilgrim`) I haev a basement and a sump (Pac NW)
[07:42] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: For the time being, I think we're starting to get our act together. We've pubicly released the evidence we had that they were in Iraqi territory, and called the Iranians on changing their claims about where the sailors were. I think that's to thank, in large part, for getting one of the sailors back. What we need to do next is to get on to the Europeans.
[07:42] (PickleWrk) A bit further north it's sand
[07:43] (VT) basements it is then... sigh.
[07:43] (pilgrim`) about 2 months a year I get water.
[07:43] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: The EU makes up something like 40% of Iranian imports. Britain has already stopped trading with Iran. If we get the rest of the EU to do the same, I think we'll have some real leverage.
[07:43] (pilgrim`) not a lot, but its still a pain
[07:43] (VT) I hate the water in my basement, I think I am over a natural spring.
[07:43] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: Personally I think that once we've got them back we ought to seriously suggest using force to disable the Revolutionary Guard's capabilities in the Gulf.
[07:44] (pilgrim`) last time we had a political issue with Iran Pistachios went from purple to white...and no one noticed
[07:44] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: The flip side to that, of course, is that Iran would probably strike back at our troops in southern Iraq.
[07:44] (PickleWrk) As if they're not already.
[07:44] (JanetB) Bush us really realy ticked
[07:45] (JanetB) I do not think I have ever seen him so angry
[07:45] (pilgrim`) pistachios are grown in Iran, the purple was a dye added at export, somewhat of a trademark. When the Irna Hostage Crisis happend we stopped pistachio imports and started growing them domestically, sans the purple
[07:45] (Aufk|aren) PickleWrk: True. On the very day they were kidnapped, the commander of British forces in the south had said that Iran was responsible for the majority of trouble in Basra.
[07:45] (td) he should be, the majority of the country doesnt agree with him
[07:45] (PickleWrk) Iran is already fucking with us. Time to destroy their naval capacity just for shits 'n giggles.
[07:45] (JanetB) the majority of the country did not agree with WWII
[07:45] (JanetB) did that stop us?
[07:45] (Aufk|aren) PickleWrk: I'm all for that, as soon as we get our sailors back.
[07:45] (td) WWII and Iraq are hardly things that can be compared
[07:45] (Lupine) JanetB: well, it did for two years :-/
[07:45] (pilgrim`) Janet good point
[07:45] (JanetB) of course they can
[07:45] (US-Male) Congress is acting irresponsibly
[07:46] (Harsen) (except, Vietnam and Iraq are compared all the time)
[07:46] * Lupine hands US-Male a golden star
[07:46] (US-Male) let's see if they can override a veto
[07:46] (Lupine) O;)
[07:46] (JanetB) US-Male.. the only thing though funding runs out in april
[07:46] (Aufk|aren) JanetB: You stayed out of the war for two year's because most people didn't want to fight. Thankfully your President had other ideas, and supplied us.
[07:46] (pilgrim`) Iran could potentially lead to WWIII, think it thru: Iraq...Afghanistan...Iran... are we TRYING to get all the Moslem world to unite for the 1st time in millenium to fight a common enemy?
[07:46] (Aufk|aren) We'd have been fucked without tha.t
[07:46] (Aufk|aren) that*
[07:47] (JanetB) Bush, imagine congress forcing the congress to stop the civil war
[07:47] (US-Male) JanetB: Then let Congress refuse funding
[07:47] (JanetB) US-Male, then we lose also
[07:47] (US-Male) Make COngress actively deny funding
[07:47] (pilgrim`) if that happens, 911 was a sucess for the hijackers
[07:47] (US-Male) JanetB: then we lose.
[07:47] (Harsen) pilgrim`, We're trying to get their fundie groups and islamofascist governments to stop fucking with us and killing our citizens
[07:47] (JanetB) no matter what the congress had assured we FAIL
[07:47] (pilgrim`) Harsen won't happen
[07:47] (Harsen) Then fuck them, WWIII is on.
[07:47] (US-Male) JanetB: COngress has constitutional authority to deny funding. You cannot stop them if they are *that* foolish
[07:47] (td) The U.S. has been succesful in Iraq, declare victory and leave
[07:48] (pilgrim`) there is ONE WAY to stopp this, but that way is sooooo outragious no one would do it
[07:48] (JanetB) td.. and leave millions to die like we did in cambodia?
[07:48] (US-Male) First, you make Congress actively deny funding
[07:48] (US-Male) let's see if they will
[07:48] (JanetB) when are we leaving Germany and Japan!
[07:48] (JanetB) it have BEEN SIXTY years!
[07:48] (US-Male) thye have the choice, let the world see if the US COngress has any balls
[07:48] (JanetB) has
[07:48] (pilgrim`) Janet we HAVE left Germany
[07:48] (JanetB) no we haven't
[07:49] (cyberfrg) i say let the congress pass what they want
[07:49] (Aufk|aren) Not entirely, pilgrim.
[07:49] (cyberfrg) the president will veto it
[07:49] (td) Iraq has a large trained army, they can handle it
[07:49] (JanetB) we have bases stilol there
[07:49] (Aufk|aren) There were some pullouts in (I think) 2004.
[07:49] (Aufk|aren) But there's a lot still there.
[07:49] (pilgrim`) Janet we have at best token forces; over the last 4 years some 200k troops have been moved out of Europe
[07:49] (JanetB) pilgrim`.. but we are STILL there
[07:49] (JanetB) after 60 years
[07:50] (Yaakov) Personally, I am not in Europe.
[07:50] (US-Male) Bush will verbally rape them and veto their shit bill
[07:50] (JanetB) and they want to leave Iraq to the hand of Iran and the like?
[07:50] (pilgrim`) Janet yes, right of conquest....se Vegetius
[07:50] (Yaakov) I couldn't afford it.
[07:50] (US-Male) and then we shall see
[07:50] (Harsen) I suggest the US leave Iraq... through Iran
[07:50] (PickleWrk) It would be far better for the troops to pull them back in April than to set a surrender date for a year from now and make them sitting ducks in a futile mission till then. If surrender is what Americans want, get it over with and stop wasting lives.
[07:50] (cyberfrg) US-Male: after it's vetoed congress will cower in the corner
[07:50] (JanetB) pilgrim`.. if we were not paying for it maybe that would apply
[07:50] (JanetB) but we are paying and paying a lot
[07:50] (cyberfrg) PickleWrk: i agree
[07:50] (US-Male) cyberfr0g: well they can either deny emergency funding and we pull out, or they can suppy it
[07:50] (pilgrim`) I suggest America leave the world, live withine her borders and means for 5 years, then come out and take overthe ruin that will be left
[07:51] (US-Male) *supply
[07:51] (Aufk|aren) PickleWrk: Wont Bush just veto the bill anyway?
[07:51] (PickleWrk) Aufklaren: Yep
[07:51] (JanetB) congress; we have surrendered, we have raped the people in momey; lets go to disneyland
[07:51] (JanetB) money
[07:51] (pilgrim`) Janet Danegeld is ALSO an old traditon. unfortunatley
[07:51] (Aufk|aren) PickleWrk: I think, in the end - and I'm no expert - the Democrats will just provide the funding minus the withdrawal date. They'd be absolutely insane to be the party that pulled the rug from under the US armed forces.
[07:51] (US-Male) Pickle that's right -- let's find out now if COngress REALLY means want they play politics with
[07:51] (cyberfrg) Aufk|aren: based on the votes so far there's no way they have the numbers for a veto override
[07:51] (US-Male) if so, then we go now
[07:51] (JanetB) I want that pork removed!
[07:51] (PickleWrk) Aufklaren: They did it before. You think it was Nixon who ended Vietnam?
[07:52] (US-Male) want=what
[07:52] (JanetB) 87 pages of pork!
[07:52] (pilgrim`) the pork was hypocricy
[07:52] (PickleWrk) He had no choice--Congress cut funding.
[07:52] (Aufk|aren) PickleWrk: And look how the Democrats have fared because of that.
[07:52] (pilgrim`) same thing happened to Bush senior
[07:52] (pilgrim`) congress forced a tax increase or no money for the feds AT ALL
[07:52] (cyberfrg) PickleWrk: funding is different then normal bills right? since congress is incharge of appropriations?
[07:52] (Aufk|aren) I need a warm drink. Tea, I think. BRB.
[07:52] (PickleWrk) Aufklaren: They seem to have decided to do the same thing again and expect a different result.
[07:53] (cyberfrg) PickleWrk: the president basically has no choice but to accept the defunding
[07:53] (cyberfrg) ?
[07:53] (JanetB) thats about it
[07:53] (US-Male) well, he can have other bills written
[07:53] (PickleWrk) cyberfrg: Yes, if Congress chooses to defund the war that's it.
[07:53] (US-Male) any bill that passes both houses and gets signed, is law
[07:54] (VT) what if the president vetos it?
[07:54] (US-Male) then we wait for another bill
[07:54] (PickleWrk) Then they don't get the funds.
[07:54] (VT) and it does not pass with the super majority?
[07:54] (PickleWrk) Which effectively defunds the war anyway, so congress wins.
[07:54] (cyberfrg) bye bye
[07:54] (cyberfrg) hehe
[07:54] (US-Male) if no other bill is forthcoming, then we pull out
[07:54] (rightooo) TheTailor ..u should apologize for what u called the germans ) "you new age cowardly peaceniks in Germany"
[07:54] (JanetB) they no way have a super majority
[07:54] (US-Male) not next year, we pull out now
[07:54] (cyberfrg) man
[07:55] (cyberfrg) this would completely destroy everything
[07:55] (cyberfrg) such a disaster
[07:55] (JanetB) rightooo... he forgot to ass backstabbers
[07:55] (JanetB) add
[07:55] (US-Male) COngress has the power to destroy everything
[07:55] (US-Male) but we'll see if that is the hill they want to die on
[07:55] (rightooo) janetB ..ass backstabbers???
[07:56] (rightooo) JanetB ..why backstabbers ....???
[07:56] (JanetB) read I corrected that to add
[07:56] (VT) I think the President will veto.
[07:56] (JanetB) cause you stabbed us in the back
[07:56] (US-Male) he wil veto it
[07:56] (cyberfrg) he already said he would
[07:56] (VT) I also think the Dems will send up another bill.
[07:56] (JanetB) you are backstabbers
[07:56] (rightooo) JanetB ..lol WHERE?
[07:56] (PickleWrk) Americans don't want an immediate pullout, and Congress is aware of this fact. This is what leads me to believe they might drop the demand for a retreat date and just go ahead with funding for now without it. But I wouldn't bet money on that.
[07:56] (JanetB) with Iraq
[07:56] (US-Male) he will veto it and wait for another bill -- but he can't wait forever
[07:56] (rightooo) JanetB ... thats bull ...
[07:56] (JanetB) not at all
[07:56] (rightooo) JanetB ...we didnt take part in a war that is wrong
[07:56] (cyberfrg) the president will not allow a pullout date to be set
[07:57] (cyberfrg) everytime they try and put one in no matter how much money going to the troops he will veto it
[07:57] (JanetB) rightooo.. you voted in the UN for the final resolution, and then refused to back it, and you sold arms to saddam
[07:57] (rightooo) JanetB ...and i think its good that we havent ...
[07:57] (VT) US-Male same same, but I do think the Dems will put up another one at the last moment with evil caviots in it.
[07:57] (JanetB) you are baskstabbers
[07:57] (rightooo) JanetB ..USA sold arms to saddam too
[07:57] (TheTailor) rightooo, no, you "new age cowardly peaceniks in Germany" should apologize to your contrymen for betraying them, women in Germany after WWII had more balls than the men in Germany have today, you and your ilk are a prime example.
[07:58] (US-Male) VT: depending on those caveats, it may also be vetoed
[07:58] (JanetB) no we didn't.. during the sanctions we sold them no arms
[07:58] (VT) US-Male not if they leave him "little" time.
[07:58] (TheTailor) rightooo, and that's not an opinion, it's an observation.
[07:58] (cyberfrg) sales of arms to iraq was during the iraq iran war
[07:58] (Harsen) lol
[07:58] (Harsen) "Military coup, no. European style socialist state? Yes."
[07:58] (US-Male) VT: yes, if the caveats suck badly enough it will be vetoed, period
[07:58] (t0tgiglz) hey does anyone know did they ever figure out who anna nicoles babies father is ?
[07:58] (gopp) cyberfr0g you got proof
[07:58] (td) JanetB: I guess thats true "during the sanctions we sold them no arms"
[07:58] (rightooo) TheTailor ...majority in germany is on my side with how i see things ..especially the war in Iraq ...the german people opposed teh war in Iraq from the beginning...god for us
[07:59] (td) how about before the sanctions
[07:59] (td) how about during the Iran/iraq war. and before
[07:59] (US-Male) VT: then in that case he will order a mass pullout in May
[07:59] (TheTailor) rightooo, yes, you appeased Saddam for money, pathetic.
[07:59] (gopp) rightooo so opposing the war is agood thing
[07:59] (US-Male) or April
[07:59] (thebarry) the security crackdown is working tho
[07:59] (VT) US-Male I bet he holds his nose and takes it like a man.
[07:59] (VT) hehe
[07:59] (rightooo) good for us lol
[07:59] (thebarry) they should have done this a long time ago
[07:59] (gopp) rightooo do you recall un oilfor food
[07:59] (gopp) rightooo do you recall un oil for food
[07:59] (Harsen) Those on the left act as though "selling iraq weapons in the 1980s" prevents us from slapping them when they get out of line.
[07:59] (TheTailor) rightooo, *lol* won't change the facts.
[07:59] (US-Male) VT: he can't afford to -- it's better to pull out in APril 2007 then April 2008
[07:59] (cyberfrg) gopp: proof they sold weapons and military equipment to iraq the early 80s?
[07:59] (rightooo) gopp ...opposing THAT war in Iraq is good yes
[08:00] (td) what does oil for food have to do anything gopp?
[08:00] (TheTailor) rightooo, you need to strap your balls back on.
[08:00] (td) or do you right to your talking points
[08:00] (td) go
[08:00] (gopp) td so oil for food is revalant
[08:00] (US-Male) if we're going to leave it half done, let's go right now
[08:00] (rightooo) TheTailor ...you are mouthing from a far right position ..and you got a warped view of this world
[08:00] (gopp) do I what td
[08:00] (PickleWrk) Aufklaren: Check out the "Dear Al Qaeda" letter here: http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html
[08:00] (td) How is it "revalent" gopp ?
[08:00] (US-Male) bring 'em home tomorrow. Fuck it. Let COngress take the heat
[08:00] (gopp) yea
[08:00] (VT) US-Male it is so hard to handy cap, Iran asking for it, they want and seem to need the USA to punch back, for some twisted internal reason.
[08:00] (JanetB) during the iran/iraq war we were helping them protect themselves, are you telling me we could forsee 30 years into the future and see what Saddam would become?
[08:00] (gopp) how is it is not revelent
[08:00] (VT) A'didy is just a spanner in the works.
[08:01] (JanetB) huh you got a cyrstal ball?
[08:01] (PickleWrk) That letter explains why I'm not optimistic about the Democrats bringing about retreat and surrender in Iraq.
[08:01] (US-Male) VT: ahh but Iran is another thing -- this is Iraq
[08:01] (TheTailor) rightooo, I lived in Germany, I know what the people there think of wimps like you, they are disgusted.
[08:01] (Aufk|aren) PickleWrk: Will do.
[08:01] (gopp) JanetB well saddam was evil from the start so it was a mistake
[08:01] (td) JanetB: you knew saddam was killing his people in the 80s and sold him weapons
[08:01] (TheTailor) rightooo, as is anyone with a spine.
[08:01] (gopp) rightooo being against the war is no good
[08:01] (US-Male) VT: but yeah, we can have a Congress that are wimps on all issues sure
[08:01] (gopp) td we knew no such things
[08:02] (TheTailor) rightooo, Germany stood by for profits when Saddam was filling mass graves.
[08:02] (VT) US-Male it seems so, man these next few months are not going to be boring.
[08:02] (td) maybe not you personally gopp
[08:02] (US-Male) VT we live in interesting times =)
[08:02] (rightooo) TheTailor ...lol ...im not a pacifist ... u didnt listen ...the majority in germany OPPOSES the war in IRAQ ...not much people would attack me on that here TheTailor lol
[08:02] (US-Male) gotta go -laters
[08:02] (gopp) td do you think being antiwar is good idea
[08:02] (gopp) and why
[08:03] (TheTailor) rightooo, simply because you say the majority opposes the war, that doesn't make it true.
[08:03] (gopp) rightooo how do you know this
[08:03] (rightooo) TheTailor ...germany and France showed their spine when they resisted going to war in Iraq
[08:03] (gopp) rightooo how do you know that the majority oppose it
[08:03] (TheTailor) rightooo, I'm sure there are millions of Germans that are disgusted with peole like you.
[08:03] (gopp) any source to back that up
[08:03] (td) gopp: millions of people in Iraq have been adversely affected in a war based on false premises, I think its good that people are anti-war
[08:03] (rightooo) gopp ..polls show it
[08:03] (JanetB) yeah showed that had NO spine
[08:03] (TheTailor) rightooo, no they didn't, thye pissed in their collective pants over losing profits.
[08:03] (gopp) rightooo they show 100% against
[08:04] (TheTailor) rightooo, oh, and those profits were illegal.
[08:04] (VT) US-Male I really think the remaking of the middle east, by first Afganistan then Iraq and if Iran needs to be next by it's own action, would be a giant step for the intire region.
[08:04] (gopp) rightooo so polls show abousltly againas tthe war
[08:04] (thebarry) oh looks
[08:04] (thebarry) look
[08:04] (thebarry) a typical lefty
[08:04] (thebarry) http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,261916,00.html
[08:04] (rightooo) TheTailor ..yea the neo nazis are disgusted by ordinary germans resisting to go in a war like that ...u are on THEIR side?
[08:05] (thebarry) you see kids, leftys think they are righteous
[08:05] (TheTailor) rightooo, I never met a neonazi.
[08:05] (thebarry) so they have no problem demonising anyone they disagree with
[08:05] (JanetB) so when we leave and MILLIONS are slaughtered rightooo, you will be held accountable right
[08:05] (gopp) rightooo so only neo nazi supported the war
[08:05] (JanetB) cause you refused to fight for right
[08:05] (td) JanetB: do you have a crystal ball?
[08:05] (gopp) good one rightooo
[08:05] (gopp) td she has faith in god
[08:05] (gopp) :_
[08:05] (gopp) :)
[08:05] (JanetB) td. you as well as I know that will happen
[08:05] (JanetB) as in cambodia
[08:06] (gopp) what we are not speaking of cambodia
[08:06] (rightooo) TheTailor ... i dont know whom u met ...go to germany these days and ask the people what they thgink about the IRaq war ...u may be very surprised..u will hardly find people that are on your side
[08:06] (JanetB) sure we are
[08:06] (gopp) we are speaking of iraq /iran
[08:06] (JanetB) what happened in cambodia will happen in iraq
[08:06] (td) gopp: this is her style, she goes to talking points that dont even apply
[08:06] (JanetB) oh but you can apply Viet Nam anytime you want to Iraq
[08:06] (rightooo) gopp ..i dont say that....
[08:06] (JanetB) hahahha gotta love it
[08:07] (rightooo) i dont know how TheTailor comes to the conclusion that many many germans would be pro Iraq war lol
[08:07] (td) What does Cambodia and Iraq have in common?
[08:07] (TheTailor) rightooo, that's a simple dodge, you know I'm not going to travel to Germany. There is a substantial German population right here in my city, they are pro war 10:1
[08:07] (td) let me know Janet
[08:07] (gopp) td what does nam have to do with iraq or iran
[08:07] (VT) bbl.
[08:07] (JanetB) the anology that millions will die if we leave
[08:07] (rightooo) TheTailor ..they are americans
[08:07] (VT) workie workie.
[08:08] (td) how does that analogy work
[08:08] (gopp) td what does nam have to do with iraq or iran
[08:08] (JanetB) that will prove to be a fact if we leave
[08:08] (rightooo) TheTailor ..with german roots of course
[08:08] (JanetB) then you will be held accountable for their deaths
[08:08] (TheTailor) rightooo, well no, they are from Germany.
[08:08] (TheTailor) rightooo, they weren't born here.
[08:08] (rightooo) TheTailor ...im talking about the germans in germany
[08:08] (gopp) td what does nam have to do with iraq or iran????
[08:08] (td) Cambodia and Iraq have nothing in common, other than the U.S. attacked both illegaly
[08:08] (gopp) td answer my question
[08:08] (JanetB) gopp.. I am making the anology
[08:08] (JanetB) hush
[08:09] (rightooo) TheTailor ...not about the germans in your neighbourhood
[08:09] (gopp) JanetB oh
[08:09] (td) gopp: I never said Nam had anything to do with iraq or iran you retard
[08:09] (TheTailor) rightooo, what you are doing is spinning as you know I'm not going to germany to take a poll.
[08:09] (JanetB) td... aww France ASKED us to help with nam
[08:09] (gopp) td oh so you are name calling
[08:09] (JanetB) \read your history, oh and then they ran!
[08:09] (JanetB) like normal
[08:09] (rightooo) TheTailor .... simple accept the fact that the majority here in germany opposed the Iraq war
[08:09] (sHice) ? Forsa-Umfrage: Germans Overwhelmingly Oppose War in Iraq-Poll auf http://www.globalpolicy.org/ngos/advocacy/protest/iraq/2002/1113german.htm 13. November 2002
[08:09] (gopp) rightooo you have a source for this
[08:10] (gopp) hmmm
[08:10] (gopp) in 2002
[08:10] (TheTailor) rightooo, why would I accept that? Because you and some tabloid press says so?
[08:10] (gopp) it 2007
[08:10] (rightooo) gopp ..one minute
[08:10] (TheTailor) sHice, oh? How many were polled?
[08:10] (rightooo) TheTailor ....accept it..show some strength..and accept it
[08:10] (td) JanetB: Cambodia was devastated by an illegal bombing campaign that killed millions of people because it totally destroyed their agriculture infrastructure
[08:10] (td) which led to famine
[08:10] (TheTailor) rightooo, sorry, you aren't credible.
[08:10] (gopp) td wtf
[08:10] (sHice) 1,002
[08:10] (sHice) ppl
[08:10] (JanetB) td.. 5 million were shot to death in cambodia
[08:11] (JanetB) again read your history
[08:11] (td) 5 million?
[08:11] (JanetB) yes
[08:11] (TheTailor) rightooo, and it hasn't anything to do with strength that I don't accept your spineless behavior.
[08:11] (td) interesting figure, Pol Pot never shot 5 million
[08:11] (td) and it wasnt because the U.S. Left, the U.S never occupied Cambodia
[08:11] (gopp) td how many did he shoot
[08:11] (TheTailor) td, his men did.
[08:11] (rightooo) TheTailor ... u r spineless when u cant accept facts ..when u cant accept that u are wrong
[08:11] (JanetB) read about the cambodia killing fields
[08:11] (JanetB) sheesh
[08:12] (TheTailor) rightooo, you saying something doesn't make it a fact.
[08:12] (gopp) JanetB where did you read this
[08:12] (td) That didnt happen because the U.S. "left" they never occupied Cambodia like they occupied Iraq
[08:12] (td) so stop using your stupid analogy
[08:12] (JanetB) oy vey
[08:12] (JanetB) td.. don't talk to me
[08:12] (gopp) td what did we do in cambodia
[08:12] (td) Iraq has 100s of thousands of trained military, and 10s of thousand of police, they can handle their own security
[08:12] (JanetB) just don't talk to me
[08:12] (gopp) td what did we do in cambodia???
[08:12] (TheTailor) td, almost.
[08:13] (TheTailor) td, somehow I don't think you are qualified to determine how many police and military are required to sustain peace in Iraq.
[08:13] (L0c0-) somebody -v me
[08:14] (rightooo) The Tailor : http://www.globalpolicy.org/ngos/advocacy/protest/iraq/2002/1113german.htm
[08:14] (TheTailor) L0c0-, so we can read more of your senseless mocking?
[08:14] (rightooo) gopp ..that link for u too
[08:14] (TheTailor) Oh! -v, sorry
[08:14] (L0c0-) note that i asked to be -v?
[08:14] (rightooo) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2747175.stm
[08:14] (L0c0-) i'm on a different isp, so the -v is still active
[08:14] (rightooo) TheTailor ..have a close look at that article too
[08:14] (TheTailor) L0c0-, well jump right in and be an asshole, I'll be happy to comply.
[08:15] (TheTailor) rightooo, I've given you my take on contemporary Germans, I don't need to read selected news articles.
[08:16] (TheTailor) L0c0-, yes, I saw your evasion, I'm simply giving you the chance to be civil instead of stupid, we'll see how it goes.
[08:16] (rightooo) TheTailor ..that news article shows that the majority of germans opposed the Iraq War ..u dont want to accept that...show me an article that states otherwise!
[08:16] (TheTailor) rightooo, how many people were polled?
[08:17] (TheTailor) rightooo, people like you feel that if a million Germans protest for one afternoon, that means all Germans are against the war, it's simply self serving.
[08:18] (rightooo) TheTailor ..u know how polling functions...u dont poll 80 million people to know what they think ..lol...u poll maybe a thousand or some more ...nut its represantatve...
[08:18] (TheTailor) rightooo, how many people were polled?
[08:18] (sHice) this poll was done by FORSA which is one of the biggest and most accepted poll firms in germany
[08:18] (TheTailor) sHice, that's a dodge, HOW MANY?
[08:18] (gopp) rightooo polls are made up on the spot
[08:18] (sHice) 1002 i told you before!
[08:19] (Aufk|aren) TT: Are you contesting whether or not most Germans opposed the war in Iraq?
[08:19] (TheTailor) LOL
[08:19] (TheTailor) 1001 :-)
[08:19] (gopp) Aufk|aren :)
[08:19] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, yes.
[08:19] (Aufk|aren) Hey gopp.
[08:19] (gopp) hey
[08:19] (gopp) everyone how your day been
[08:19] (gopp) how has your day been so far
[08:20] (Aufk|aren) TT: Well, most French and Germans opposed the war. I thought that was pretty much common knowledge.
[08:20] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, ya know, during Viet Nam we had protests EVERY DAY, with 100's of 1000's protesting. I don't see that over the war in Iraq.
[08:20] (PickleWrk) Germany is descending into a level of decadence, hedonism, and libertinism that hasn't been seen since, oh... The Weimar Republic.
[08:20] (rightooo) "Poll results available from Gallup International, as well as local sources for most of Europe, West and East, showed that support for a war carried out "unilaterally by America and its allies" did not rise above 11 percent in any country. Support for a war if mandated by the UN ranged from 13 percent (Spain) to 51 percent (Netherlands)." -Noam Chomsky,[1]
[08:20] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, then we have the fact that NOBODY things removing Saddam was a bad thing....
[08:20] (gopp) hahah noam chomsky
[08:20] (gopp) is his source
[08:20] (L0c0-) Gopp: my day's going great. I'm sitting here at work. The kids are taking a long test so its silent and I'm in the back catching up on the day's news and chatting w/ you fine people
[08:20] (gopp) Noman chomsky
[08:21] (td) Noman!
[08:21] (gopp) L0c0- oh your kids
[08:21] (PickleWrk) It's to the point where they're actually seriously considering legalizing incest marriages. Never mind gay marriage.
[08:21] (TheTailor) LOL, Noam Chomsky! :-)
[08:21] (td) how did we already start mispelling that Gopp?
[08:21] (L0c0-) gopp: well my students
[08:21] (L0c0-) Gopp: small class, only 11 kids
[08:21] (gopp) L0c0- oh I forgot your a teacher right
[08:21] (Aufk|aren) TT: Of course, virtually no one opposed the removal of Saddam. Most in European countries opposed the Iraq War itself. Even in Britain, it only ever reached a very slight majority right before the war actually started.
[08:21] (rightooo) Opinion polls showed the population was against the war, with opposition as high as 90% in Spain and Italy, and also widespread in Eastern Europe.[9] The electorates of France and Germany were strongly opposed to the war and it would have been difficult for their governments to fail to reflect these views.
[08:22] (L0c0-) it's a remedial math class for kids that didn't do well on the TAKS test as 6th graders
[08:22] (L0c0-) yup
[08:22] (gopp) noman chomsky is great
[08:22] (gopp) L0c0- you teach math
[08:22] (td) yeah noman rules
[08:22] (gopp) :)
[08:22] (gopp) L0c0- will you tech them linear algebra
[08:22] (L0c0-) today i do
[08:22] (L0c0-) i'm like the mcgeyver of teaching
[08:22] (gopp) where you a math major
[08:22] (Aufk|aren) TT: Here you go..
[08:22] (td) where?
[08:22] (Aufk|aren) TT: http://www.cer.org.uk/pdf/back_brief_springford_dec03.pdf
[08:23] (Aufk|aren) TT: Gallup poll in there.
[08:23] (JanetB) TheTailor.. I do not doubt most in france and germany were against the war, they allower hitler to rise to power thur appeasment and fear
[08:23] (JanetB) I do not see that would change, now
[08:23] (Aufk|aren) Pew Reearch poll too.
[08:23] (gopp) hey JanetB how does this sound "It was Dickinson opinion that declaring Independence other will try and do the same against Great Britain"
[08:23] (td) JanetB: they werent ready to combat Hitler, appeasement gave them time , they didnt have anything to fight with
[08:23] (gopp) that if declared indepdence other will try and do the same thing. hmm
[08:24] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, I frankly doubt there are as many opposed as is stated by the press and anti war fruitcakes. If there were, there would be far more protests in far greater numbers. The fact that there are not is a glaring implication that the silent majority isn't anti war.
[08:24] (Aufk|aren) TT: Well, you're conflating America and Germany there. Germans aren't protesting because they don't really care - they don't have troops there.
[08:24] (Aufk|aren) TT: But I take your point about America.
[08:25] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, odd, I don't see protests every day in great numbers in the UK either, imagine that.
[08:26] (Aufk|aren) TT: Right. We do have protests, but they're small affairs now.
[08:26] (JanetB) well time for work, good day to all
[08:26] (Aufk|aren) The last one had only 2-3,000 according to the Metropolitan Police.
[08:26] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, yes, because those people don't represent the majority of the people, not even close.
[08:26] (Aufk|aren) That was about a month ago, I think.
[08:26] (Aufk|aren) Heh, but the Stop the War Coalition claimed 100,000.
[08:27] (Aufk|aren) Maybe they're getting their wild-eyed mental Islamist buddies to count for them though.
[08:27] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, of course they did, it's a typical exageration.
[08:27] (rightooo) The following countries have protested formally and officially to the conduct of this war. They do not support the Iraq War in principle, citing in some cases that they believe it is illegal, and in others that it required an affirmative United Nations mandate. : for example: Argentina, Austria, Bangladesh, Belarus, Belgium, Brazil, Chile ,China Croatia ,Ecuador,Egypt,France, Gambia,Germany,Greece,Guinea,India,Jordan,Indonesia,Ke
[08:27] (fordnut) you will always have a vocal group of anti-war protestors in every war
[08:27] (fordnut) theyve demonstrated from the revolutionary war up through the current one
[08:28] (L0c0-) oh good grief
[08:28] (fordnut) they didnt want to fight the brits, the germans, the japanese, iraqis
[08:28] (fordnut) whatever
[08:28] (rightooo) just in case someone thinks the Iraq War is widely regarded as a right war...
[08:28] (L0c0-) now THAT was one of the reasons i don't like being a teacher
[08:29] (L0c0-) i walked around the room to check on their progress, stand by the door. this little girl is sitting in her seat looking a bit confused/scared
[08:29] (fordnut) some people are just idiots^H^H^H^Hpacifists
[08:29] (L0c0-) so i go ask her if everkything' ok "Mr G, I think I got my period." "UUh ok go to the nurse"
[08:29] (rightooo) fordnut ..im not a pacifist
[08:29] (Aufk|aren) Little girl?
[08:29] (Lupine) rightooo: officially? so they have a UN resolution condemning the war?
[08:29] (Aufk|aren) L0c0-: How little? :p
[08:30] (fordnut) nah i wasnt referring to you rightooo
[08:30] (L0c0-) 12
[08:30] (L0c0-) i work w/ 7th graders mostly
[08:30] (Aufk|aren) Oh, right.
[08:30] (fordnut) im just saying you are going to have people protesting anywar, regardless of whether it is just or not
[08:30] (Aufk|aren) When you said little girl, I was thinking five or six year old.
[08:30] (L0c0-) aufklaren: haah they're a little little kids to me
[08:30] (rightooo) Lupine .,,,thats a list of countries who opposed the war....and when u think what countries backed the Iraq war it amkes sense
[08:30] (TheTailor) rightooo, the *conduct* of the war, ask them if removing Saddam was right or wrong, oh wait, you can't, that would dismiss your stance.
[08:30] (Lupine) L0c0-: did you see the recent SouthPark episode dealing with head lice?
[08:31] (L0c0-) hahaha no
[08:31] (Lupine) rightooo: which UN security resolution are you referring to, where they opposed the war?
[08:31] (rightooo) "If you look at those matters, you will come to the conclusion that the attitude of the United States of America is a threat to world peace. Because what America is saying is that if you are afraid of a veto in the Security Council, you can go outside and take action and violate the sovereignty of other countries. That is the message they are sending to the world. That must be condemned in the strongest terms." - Nelson Mandela Se
[08:31] (L0c0-) that's one thing i've never had to deal with
[08:31] (rightooo) that is a quote by Nelson Mandela
[08:32] (Lupine) l0c0: half of it was them trying to find out who brought in the "dirty cooters"... to beat them up.. the other, from the lice standpoint.
[08:32] (PickleWrk) Yay, Nelson Mandela... South Africa
[08:32] (Lupine) they had an Al Gore lice.. preaching death and destruction
[08:32] (PickleWrk) Yay, Nelson Mandela... South Africa's Arafat.
[08:32] (L0c0-) puking, periods, epilleptic seizures, nervous breakdowns, physical and sexual assaults, arson, and a couple of food fights, but never lice
[08:32] (PickleWrk) I take him seriously. Really.
[08:32] (L0c0-) LOL dirty cooters
[08:32] (fordnut) nelson mandela is entitled to his opinion.. but he's also unequivocally and positively dead wrong
[08:33] (TheTailor) haha, Mandela :-)
[08:33] (L0c0-) thankfully i've never had to deal with a dirty cooter either
[08:33] (rightooo) "The option of war can appear initially to be the most rapid. But let us not forget that after winning the war, peace must be built." -Dominique de Villepin, French Foreign Minister, at the United Nations Security Council on February 14, 2003 ... i think he has been proven right
[08:33] (TheTailor) rightooo, again, ask Mandela if removing Saddam was wrong :-)
[08:33] (Lupine) L0c0-: turns out that they ALL had the lice
[08:33] (L0c0-) lol they all freaked out?
[08:33] (Lupine) none of them wanted to admit it
[08:34] (rightooo) "Our interests are best protected not by unilateral action but by multilateral agreement and a world order governed by rules. Yet tonight the international partnerships most important to us are weakened: the European Union is divided; the Security Council is in stalemate. Those are heavy casualties of a war in which a shot has yet to be fired." - Robin Cook, former British Foreign Secretary and Leader of the House of Commons, resi
[08:34] (L0c0-) brb i need to make up a quick transparency for order of operations
[08:34] (rightooo) very interesting quotes
[08:35] (TheTailor) rightooo, France has stated removing Saddam was the right thing (even if like Germany they broke UN sanctions for profit) long ago, oh, and they signed on to UN 1441.
[08:35] (rightooo) a good man
[08:35] (Lupine) rightooo: and totally devoid of any context.. could have applied to WWI, WWII or any other time
[08:36] (Lupine) "There are no victims, only volunteers. You volunteer by looking uncertain and afraid. You volunteer by being, as grass-eaters invariably are, unprepared to confront the hazards of life.."--Jeff Cooper
[08:36] (rightooo) Lupine ...i didnt see anyone in Britain say things like these in WWII
[08:36] (Lupine) rightooo: "Peace in our lifetime"
[08:36] (fordnut) good quote Lupine
[08:36] (PickleWrk) Mandela the old lunatic also accused Bush of ignoring the UN because Khofi Annan is black.
[08:36] (TheTailor) rightooo, you didn't see anything at all during WWII.
[08:36] (PickleWrk) Fuck Mandela and fuck his admirers for that matter.
[08:37] (fordnut) heh.. Germany damn near wrecked the 20th century.. TWICE
[08:37] (rightooo) In an interview with the BBC Kofi Annan said, "[The U.S.-led invasion of Iraq] was not in conformity with the UN Charter." When the interviewer responded by asking "It was illegal?" Kofi Annan replied "Yes, if you wish." 16 September 2004
[08:37] (fordnut) to listen to this twit lecture Americans on war
[08:37] (fordnut) is the height of absurdity
[08:37] (rightooo) for those who say it was according to UN laws....
[08:37] (Lupine) rightooo: words are meaningless, actions are what matters.
[08:38] (rightooo) "To a certain extent Saddam Hussein's departure was a positive thing. But it also provoked reactions, such as the mobilization in a number of countries, of men and women of Islam, which has made the world more dangerous." - French President, Jacques Chirac November 17, 2004 [34]
[08:38] (TheTailor) Wasn't Kofi's son involved in the breaking of sanctions against Iraq? With his help?
[08:38] (PickleWrk) It WAS according to international law, as Khofi Annan later clarified. But I wouldn't expect that level of intellectual honesty from you, rightooo.
[08:38] (Lupine) TheTailor: he was getting rich, indeed
[08:38] (TheTailor) Rightoo, that's enough flooding.
[08:38] (rightooo) exactly ..Cirac got it
[08:38] (rightooo) Chirac
[08:38] (TheTailor) rightooo, if you have a URL, post it.
[08:38] (PickleWrk) Since it's clear you're simply interested in cherry-picking quotes to suit your bias.
[08:38] (TheTailor) Chirac said removing Saddam was the right thing.
[08:39] (L0c0-) its sad that some of these kids don't know basics like rounding to the nearth tenth or order or operations
[08:39] (Lupine) rightooo: what Annan says in an interview is irrelevent. The only thing that matters is what he _does_.
[08:39] (Lupine) sig figs!!!
[08:39] (L0c0-) exactly
[08:39] (L0c0-) sorta like alberto gonzales
[08:39] (L0c0-) he was involved before he wasn't involved
[08:40] (rightooo) TheTailor ,...it would be nice if u would stop saying that the majority in Europe or in the world would support the war
[08:40] (rightooo) thank you
[08:41] (rightooo) the war in Iraq
[08:41] (TheTailor) rightooo, nice for you perhaps, but if I did, I would be involved in falsehoods, like you, so I can't.
[08:41] (rightooo) TheTailor ... how many countries are now stationed in Iraq ...?
[08:42] (TheTailor) rightooo, I don't know.
[08:42] (Lupine) For at least a year before the 2004 Republican National Convention, teams of undercover New York City police officers traveled to cities across the country, Canada and Europe to conduct covert observations of people who planned to protest at the convention, according to police records and interviews.
[08:42] (Lupine) From Albuquerque to Montreal, San Francisco to Miami, undercover New York police officers attended meetings of political groups, posing as sympathizers or fellow activists, the records show.
[08:42] (Lupine) yea bloomberg
[08:42] (rightooo) TheTailor ... only US soldiers and British soldiers
[08:42] (TheTailor) rightooo, does it matter? 12 million IRAQI's voted for a new government, do they matter?
[08:42] (fordnut) rightooo: Your country has produced the most vile, wicked, and evil war machine humanity has thus far seen, and this well within the lifetime of many people still alive
[08:42] (fordnut) rightooo: stfu with your moral condescension.
[08:43] (TheTailor) fordnut, rightooo's generation hasn't.
[08:43] (rightooo) fordnut ..i wont
[08:43] (TheTailor) fordnut, rightooo's generation supports the idea of mass murder though, they would have left Saddam in power for some gold.
[08:43] (rightooo) fordnut ..im well aware of german history
[08:44] (fordnut) rightooo: His grandfather's has, and the way he's talking, he would have fit right in
[08:44] (fordnut) rightooo: then start acting like it.
[08:44] (TheTailor) rightooo, face facts, as long as Germany and France were profiting, mass murder by Saddam could be overlooked.
[08:45] (rightooo) TheTailor ...what you are saying is egregious
[08:45] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: There are still South Korean, Australian and Polish troops in Iraq, at least. Perhaps others too, I'm not sure.
[08:45] (L0c0-) FALLUJAH, Iraq - Insurgents with two chlorine truck bombs attacked a local government building in Fallujah in western Iraq on Wednesday, the latest in a string of attacks using the poisonous gas, the U.S. military said.
[08:45] (L0c0-) where the hell are they getting this chlorine
[08:45] (L0c0-) its not like they're using small amounts
[08:46] (fordnut) L0c0-: mix bleach with ammonia
[08:46] (fordnut) duh.
[08:46] (fordnut) chem 101:)
[08:46] (L0c0-) i'm an english major
[08:46] (L0c0-) haha
[08:46] (fordnut) :p
[08:46] (rightooo) TheTailor ...if u think germany is a bad country u are wrong ....we are allies and you are just rude
[08:46] (fordnut) Germany is not a bad country
[08:46] (L0c0-) Fifteen Iraqi and U.S. soldiers were wounded in the blasts and many more suffered chlorine poisoning, the statement said
[08:46] (L0c0-) not good
[08:46] (rightooo) fordnut ..that is what he is saying
[08:46] (fordnut) My great grandparents on both sides came from Germany
[08:46] (PickleWrk) House votes to protect "John Does" who report suspicious activity on flights, Democrats fight for the terrorists: http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20070327-065522-5346r.htm
[08:47] (fordnut) Germany is a great country
[08:47] (Aufk|aren) L0c0-: They're probably getting it from industrial sites.
[08:47] (Aufk|aren) L0c0-: Chlorine has a lot of industrial uses.
[08:47] (rightooo) TheTailor says that Germany is a bad country and i dont accept this
[08:47] (L0c0-) the Iraqis need to reign this shit itn NOW
[08:47] (PickleWrk) Rep. Bennie Thompson, Mississippi Democrat and chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, opposed the motion over loud objections from colleagues on the House floor, forcing several calls to order from the chair.
[08:47] (Aufk|aren) L0c0-: I'm sure they're trying. :p
[08:47] (PickleWrk) "Absolutely they should have the ability to seek redress in a court of law," said Mr. Thompson, who suggested that protecting passengers from a lawsuit would encourage racial profiling.
[08:47] (TheTailor) rightooo, I never said Germany was a bad country, what I'm saying is people like you in Germany would sell the lives of innocent Iraqi's for treasure.
[08:47] (TheTailor) rightooo, now get that straight, *people like YOU*.
[08:48] (rightooo) TheTailor ...u can tell that then to the majority of the german people.... get it right ...u have a weird position
[08:48] * PickleWrk is now known as Pickle
[08:48] (L0c0-) they and their highly touted 300,000 trained trooops need to try harder damn it
[08:48] (L0c0-) their incompetence is hurting our troops
[08:49] (rightooo) TheTailor ...u talk like i would be a german with radical thoughts ..i can tell you im not ....
[08:49] (fordnut) the Iraqis certainly need to do a better job
[08:49] (rightooo) TheTailor ...what about some respect...
[08:50] (fordnut) I think we should allow rancorous debate on the House floor like the British house of commons
[08:50] (fordnut) i like watching that when it comes on CSPAN
[08:50] (rightooo) TheTailor ... and please learn how to accept when you are wrong...its not weakness when you are able to say "ok i was wrong then" ... it shows u got a spine
[08:50] (fordnut) OH HUFF HUFF
[08:50] (Aufk|aren) fordnut: Did you watch it today?
[08:50] (fordnut) hehe, not yet
[08:50] (fordnut) I love how they snipe at each other
[08:50] (Aufk|aren) fordnut: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/bbc_parliament/default.stm
[08:50] (Aufk|aren) fordnut: Prime Minister's Questions link on there.
[08:50] (rightooo) *sigh*
[08:51] (fordnut) WILL THE GOOD SIR FROM DERBISHIRE PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY...
[08:51] (fordnut) etc etc
[08:51] (bill-) This is London. *beep*
[08:51] (PickleWrk) We had a rancorous QP here yesterday
[08:51] (rightooo) i need a hug now
[08:51] (bill-) 1700 hours, Greenwich Mean Time.
[08:51] * fordnut hugs rightooo
[08:51] (rightooo) someone hug me please :D
[08:51] (fordnut) thanks auf
[08:51] (fordnut) checkin
[08:51] (L0c0-) lol
[08:51] (rightooo) fordnut thx :)
[08:51] (Aufk|aren) Bill2-: Was that the World Service beep? :)
[08:51] * rightooo hugs fordnut
[08:52] (bill-) yes!
[08:52] (bill-) And now, the news, read by Jonathan Tidmarsh.
[08:52] (Aufk|aren) Beep beep beep beep beeeeeeeeeep.
[08:52] (Aufk|aren) Or something.
[08:52] (bill-) hehe
[08:52] (PickleWrk) BBC shortwave = dead in North America
[08:53] (PickleWrk) Sometimes you can catch broadcasts aimed at central America
[08:53] (fordnut) lol @ prime ministers questioning.. i love this shit
[08:53] (Aufk|aren) Does it still broadcast on FM?
[08:53] (PickleWrk) Not in North America
[08:54] (PickleWrk) They've gone streaming-only
[08:54] (td) too bad Bush isnt forced to answer questions in congress
[08:54] (Aufk|aren) fordnut: I'm watching it right now, haven't seen it yet. It's starting off a bit tame8=u0h[nlo
[08:54] (Aufk|aren) doh
[08:54] (Aufk|aren) Dropped my keyboard,.
[08:54] (Aufk|aren) As I was saying before I spazzed out, it's starting off a bit tame.
[08:54] (Aufk|aren) Ah, here we go. Cameron is asking about the Iranian hostages.
[08:54] (Aufk|aren) Haha, that was weak.
[08:54] (Aufk|aren) The House is jeering him.
[08:55] (Aufk|aren) Cameron's lucky he'll be fighting the next election against Brown. Vintage Blair on top form would have absolutely eaten him for breakfast.
[08:55] (bill-) Pickle: my local NPR affiliate broadcasts itmidnight to 5 am.. plus available on the web
[08:55] (starly) Abusive domain or user
[08:56] (_rwx) Abusive Domain or User
[08:56] (ramprat) hey can u guys quit flooding
[08:56] (Aufk|aren) We aren't.
[08:56] (TheTailor) rightooo, I'm perfectly able to accept when I'm wrong, understand that I see right through that nonsense of you saying I can't. *It doesn't support your position*, and further it supports your intelectual dishonesty.
[08:56] (Aufk|aren) ramprat: People flood and blame it on this channel.
[08:56] (bill-) Auf is a member of the Lemon Party
[08:57] (TheTailor) ramprat, did you get a message when you entered the channel?
[08:57] (Aufk|aren) bill2-: WTF is the Lemon Party?
[08:57] (ebeavis) omg
[08:57] (ramprat) beavis u get flooded too?
[08:57] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, some gay shit, it's been around forever
[08:57] (Aufk|aren) Oh, that's awful.
[08:57] (ebeavis) yes, frickin hacks
[08:57] (ramprat) i think it was CometBaby
[08:57] * Aufk|aren throws up all over his computer.
[08:57] (bill-) Auf: the stuff the flooders who come here often floodpate
[08:57] (ramprat) that flooded me
[08:57] (bill-) paste*
[08:58] (ramprat) and our channel
[08:58] (TheTailor) ramprat .. tell us all about it
[08:58] (starly) ramprat, you are devoiced (Requested by TheTailor )
[08:58] (TheTailor) ebeavis .. tell us all about it
[08:58] (starly) ebeavis, you are devoiced (Requested by TheTailor )
[08:58] (f1re) srsly bud quit with the flooding
[08:58] (Aufk|aren) ramprat: It was not CometBaby. GNAA-types flood other channels and blame it on #politics ops.
[08:58] (f1re) or ill own u
[08:58] (Aufk|aren) f1re: no one is flooding you stupid fuck.
[08:58] (Aufk|aren) Damn, too late
[08:58] (TheTailor) Own me
[08:59] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, they know nobody is flooding
[08:59] (TheTailor) Pay no attention to them.
[08:59] (Aufk|aren) Really?
[08:59] (Eeyore) hey Aufk|aren whats up today? Good to see the Brits actually respond.
[08:59] (TheTailor) Of course, they are looking for trouble with false accusations, further Comet has a message addressing that when they join the channel.
[08:59] (Lupine) Eeyore wah? Tehran is gone?
[08:59] (Eeyore) and typically the Iranians will fold right away if a western nation actually DOES something
[09:00] (Eeyore) Lupine not yet patience
[09:01] (Aufk|aren) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFqQOlYE4EE
[09:01] (Lupine) Even if the ship had somehow strayed into Iranian waters, Beckett said, "under international law, warships have sovereign immunity in the territorial sea of other states."
[09:01] (Lupine) "The very most Iran would've been entitled to do if they considered our boats were breeching the rules on innocent passage would've been to require the ship to leave their territorial waters immediately," the foreign secretary explained.
[09:01] (Eeyore) once again I offer the documentary on A Q Khan and the Islamic nulcear bomb if anyone wants it please let me know and ill send you the bit torent file
[09:01] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: Well, we've upped the ante in diplomatic terms. I think it's starting to produce results - the female sailor is apparently going to be released "very soon."
[09:01] (Aufk|aren) I don't see why they haven't released the others too.
[09:01] (Aufk|aren) We shouldn't take our foot off the pedal.
[09:02] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren thats the rumour. amenidhejihad or whatever his name is, is usually good to his word. we shall see.
[09:02] (Aufk|aren) We suspended all official trading with Iran this morning (in addition to releasing evidence they were in Iraqi water to the public). Now we need to get on to the other EU countries to suspend trading with Iran too.
[09:02] (rightooo) TheTailor ...lol thats pathetic ... you have been talking bad things today about germany ...maybe it would be better for ya to think twice ... if u criticize the german government ..fine ..but dont criticizse the german people
[09:02] (Aufk|aren) If other EU countries suspended trading too, Iran would hand them over in a minute.
[09:02] (Aufk|aren) It's up to the other EU countries if they can stop looking out for their own bottom line for five minutes.
[09:02] (bill-) harder to distinguish the two when the government's actually democratic
[09:02] (rightooo) TheTailor ..and this "new age peacenik" crap ....its for the trollers
[09:03] (_HellMngr) what is 'international law' anyway?
[09:03] (Eeyore) rightooo its how most of EUrope felt in 37 as well
[09:03] (bill-) Hell: whatever the major nations decide it is, or isn't, at any given time
[09:03] (TheTailor) rightooo, I don't have a problem with Germans, I have a problem with people like you that dishonestly portray the situation and are hypocritical.
[09:03] (Aufk|aren) bbl
[09:04] (TheTailor) rightooo, you are a prime example of where the German population has gone bad.
[09:04] (rightooo) TheTailor ..i dont dishonestly portray the situation ... !! most germans would tell u the same like me
[09:04] (TheTailor) rightooo, in your dreams.
[09:04] (_HellMngr) germany is good for nothing but good beer and loose women
[09:04] (_HellMngr) HEAR HEAR
[09:04] (fordnut) MOSCOW, March 27 (RIA Novosti) - Russian military intelligence services are reporting a flurry of activity by U.S. Armed Forces near Iran's borders, a high-ranking security source said Tuesday.
[09:04] (fordnut) "The latest military intelligence data point to heightened U.S. military preparations for both an air and ground operation against Iran," the official said, adding that the Pentagon has probably not yet made a final decision as to when an attack will be launched.
[09:04] (bill-) ok, back to work
[09:04] (rightooo) TheTailor ...LOL ...u got no clue whats going on here ...who lives her u or me -.-
[09:04] (Eeyore) TheTailor whats the disagreement here please?
[09:05] (TheTailor) rightooo, simply because you live there means you know all 75 million others? And their thoughts?
[09:05] (TheTailor) rightooo, a poll of 1000 people in Germany shows the feeling of ALL Germans?
[09:06] (L0c0-) yay
[09:06] (rightooo) Eeyore ...TheTailor is mouthing from a far out right position that the germans would support the Iraq war ..and that I , who is opposing the Iraq war , am a perfect example of where the germans have gone wrong .... haha pathetic that is
[09:06] (L0c0-) conference period, time to go have me a smoke and get some coffee
[09:06] (L0c0-) bbl
[09:07] (rightooo) TheTailor ... please come to Germany ..its a nice and friendly place ..and talk to people what they think about the Iraq war .
[09:07] (TheTailor) rightooo, you and those like you are a joke, if you really had the support of the German people, you would wee protests every day at the US embassy.
[09:07] (TheTailor) rightooo, I lived in Germany for a year when I was in the Army.
[09:07] (rightooo) TheTailor ... i know what im talking about
[09:07] (TheTailor) err, see protests that is
[09:07] (rightooo) TheTailor ..when was that?
[09:08] (Eeyore) rightooo sorry still dont understand. I do think if the Germans hadnt been lied to by thier own govt at the time who was being paid off by Sadamns oil for food scandal, they would have supported the Iraq war as they should
[09:08] (Eeyore) is that what you mean?
[09:08] (TheTailor) rightooo, you hope you know what you are talking about, but you don't, you don't know what the majority of anyone thinks.
[09:08] (_HellMngr) oil 4 guns!@
[09:08] (rightooo) TheTailor .. lol ...
[09:08] (Yaakov) I use BreakFree.
[09:08] (TheTailor) rightooo, guess what, if Americans were against the war, they would defund it.
[09:09] (rightooo) TheTailor ... lol
[09:09] (_HellMngr) i use breakfree or remoil
[09:09] (rightooo) TheTailor ..u should watch yourself
[09:09] (TheTailor) rightooo, oh, and again, *lol* doesn't win your argument
[09:09] (Yaakov) I use other stuff too, but it was the first thing that came to mind.
[09:09] (TheTailor) rightooo, I should watch myself? Are you threatening me? :-)
[09:09] (pilgrim`) as I said; IRanian mindset is TOTALLY different then that int he west. we NEED to understand that when dealign with them.
[09:09] (Yaakov) I use Tufoil and some slide grease from a company I cannot recall.
[09:09] (rightooo) TheTailor ..and if u think i have a different view on things like most germans ..you are ..W R O N G ...when was your year in germany? 30 years ago?????
[09:10] (TheTailor) rightooo, you don't know what *most* Germans think.
[09:10] (_HellMngr) yeah, you only know what you and your left wing fascist friends think
[09:10] (_HellMngr) FASCIST
[09:11] (pilgrim`) example of the way Iran thinks: If a person in power dies in the US CNN has it ont he air inminutes with a canned bio running. Iranian croaks, the media says "He has had a small, not to worry, illness" and reports of theworsenign condition are read for a week followed by his tragic death.
[09:11] (Yaakov) Most Germans I have met are sincere and thoughtful people with a lot of historical baggage that they don't see to be fully aware of. I have also met Germans who reject that baggage which doesn't work out well.
[09:11] (pilgrim`) Iranians never coem out and SAY it
[09:11] (rightooo) TheTailor ..oh well you are right ...you im living here and know whats going on here ..but hey TheTailor says it must be like that ..fine haha ... yea most germans are happy with the war and wished gewrmany would take part in the Iraq war ...
[09:11] (thx1138^) pilgrim` its kinda hard to understand the mind of the iranian people when they are subject to a rogue terrorist sponsoring theocratic government.
[09:11] (rightooo) TheTailor ... Germany is pro Iraq War ..haha#
[09:12] (Eeyore) _HellMngr used the most common rhetroical use of the term facist. probably by accident he got it right though. The left wants more state control in more areas of life. Facists want everything to be of and by the state or an arm of the state. so yeah the left pretty much moves towards facism
[09:12] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: It's hard to develop a healthy sense of your own national identity when, to one degree or another, you're responsible for the two worst wars in the history of mankind in which you were twice defeated. Particularly in the case of the Second World War.
[09:12] (rightooo) distorting realitys ...oh my
[09:12] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: That "you're" should be "your nation"
[09:12] (pilgrim`) thx I have studdied Iran scolasically for many years. LONG before the modern campaigns. long before the current political climate. THAT is why I think I can see this beyond the rhetoric
[09:12] (thx1138^) rightooo ironic considering the Baath party was modeled after the Nazi party
[09:13] (rightooo) thx1138 ... do u think germany is pro Iraq war?
[09:13] (thx1138^) pilgrim` before 1979?
[09:13] (Eeyore) and installed by the Soviets dont forgte that
[09:13] (TheTailor) rightooo, I never said they were pro war, what I said is 1.) you don'tnow the feelings of the people there and 2.) you ane your ilk are spineless bedwetting wimps.
[09:13] (thx1138^) rightooo i think merkel stands with us much more than schroeder did
[09:13] (pilgrim`) thx from the Assyrian period on
[09:13] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: Yes, and the trouble is compounded when (as in Japan) the major industrial corporations as exactly the same ones that were made rich and powerful by the war.
[09:13] (rightooo) Who in this channel thinks Germany/most germans are pro Iraq war?
[09:13] (pilgrim`) actually, from Zoroaster on
[09:13] (TheTailor) rightooo, oh, and 3.) you and yours would stand by while Saddam murdered 100's of 1000's
[09:13] (PickleWrk) Who on this channel thinks that the opinions of Germans are worth regarding in any event?
[09:13] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: Mitsubishi, for example, made the fighters that were flown by the kamakaze.
[09:14] (thx1138^) hooray zoroaster!
[09:14] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: Japan has come to terms with their past much less than the Germans.
[09:14] (_HellMngr) TheTailor: did you just call him a bed wetter?
[09:14] * PickleWrk notes the silence
[09:14] (rightooo) TheTailor ..i am one of the millions and millions germa that oppose the war..its not like in the US ..get that right ...*sigh*
[09:14] (thx1138^) iran would be much better off returning to zoroastrianism
[09:14] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: It is my belief that Japan switched to economic warfare without skipping a beat.
[09:14] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: I'd even say that most Japanese reject any idea that their government was responsible for atrocities in world War II, or that they were responsible for anything worse than the Chinese or Koreans.
[09:14] (TheTailor) Pickle, well, I know some Germans here that aren't anti war, they aren't pro war either, but they are good at discussion of it.
[09:14] (Aufk|aren) A lot of textbooks leave it out.
[09:14] (TheTailor) Pickle, unlike rightoo
[09:14] (pilgrim`) I am not in sympathy at ALL with the current regime. they are fools. BUT I am saying: we as a peopel need to understand this country. If we ascribe motivatiosn and goals WE would have to them, we loose
[09:14] (rightooo) thx1138...right but that she didnt send troops to Iraq did she?
[09:15] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: Ordinary Japanese that I know don't feel that way, but they are powerless.
[09:15] (_HellMngr) Aufk|aren: you mean the autrocities that japan commited against china and korea?
[09:15] (thx1138^) rightooo she wasn't in office at the time
[09:15] (Aufk|aren) _HellMngr: Yes.
[09:15] (rightooo) thx1138 ...and Schroeder was not anti USA ..he was anti Iraq war..as most german were and are
[09:15] (pilgrim`) we expected Japan to capitulate long before she did. why? we never understood Boshido
[09:15] (TheTailor) rightooo, millions? When were there ever *millions* in Germany protesting the war?
[09:15] (_HellMngr) Japan forgave us for nuking them, right?
[09:15] (thx1138^) rightooo of course he was, you people were getting oil from saddam :)
[09:16] (cyberfrg) why in the hell are we still talking about germany?
[09:16] (Aufk|aren) yaakov: Only a very slim minority of Japanese think that their government has any further apologies to make.
[09:16] (_HellMngr) Korea and China should forgive them for their genocides.
[09:16] (cyberfrg) screw germany
[09:16] (pilgrim`) knowledge of a people you opose is the 1st weapon in your arsenal, and America traditonally goest to battle unarmed in this respect
[09:16] (TheTailor) rightooo, when was there a poll of millions to get their views?
[09:16] (rightooo) TheTailor ...there wer huge protest here as they were in Britain.... u seem to forget that most Brits opposed the Iraq war too
[09:16] (TheTailor) rightooo, not withh millions.
[09:16] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: That's not true. At the time of the actual invasion, a slim majority supported it.
[09:16] (BillFrugg) why should the US policies be built around Germany's opinions?
[09:16] (rightooo) haha ..Blair acted against his own people
[09:16] (cyberfrg) hah
[09:16] (_HellMngr) I want to go to a protest
[09:16] (TheTailor) rightooo, when were millions in Germany protesting?
[09:16] (cyberfrg) brits were against iraq war until 7/7
[09:17] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: And even now, a full third think the Iraq War was worth it.
[09:17] (Aufk|aren) Which I think is higher than even America.
[09:17] (BillFrugg) cyberfrg.... cyberFrugg? :D
[09:17] (Aufk|aren) Only 6 in 10 think it was a mistake, here in Britain.
[09:17] (cyberfrg) everyone is against war until your citizens are murdered by islamic terrorists
[09:17] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, those are polls and there isn't any real reason to believe them.
[09:17] (cyberfrg) lol bill
[09:17] (thx1138^) pilgrim` knowledge of the people is the 1st weapon in 21st century war I agree. The military keep thorough knowledge on military capabilities like the 20th centry institution they gained notoriety as. I think even they are starting to learn, however.
[09:17] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: The apology thing has no resonance for me. Actions, not words, are my concern. A *sincere* apology *might* have value--but I don't believe anything politicians say is necessarily sincere.
[09:18] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, I simply never believed polls, theya re to easy to manipulate.
[09:18] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: Symbolism is very important in these things.
[09:18] (rightooo) Millions of people protested, in approximately 800 cities around the world. Listed by the 2004 Guinness Book of Records as the largest protest in human history, protests occurred among others in the United Kingdom, Italy, Spain, Germany, Switzerland, Ireland, the United States, Canada, Australia, South Africa, Syria, India, Russia, South Korea, Japan, and even McMurdo Station in Antarctica. The largest demonstration this day occur
[09:18] (Aufk|aren) TT: Your basic position is that all polls are crap?
[09:18] (thx1138^) pilgrim` what do you think of al jazeera english not being offered in the U.S.?
[09:18] (Aufk|aren) TT: Even when the same polls are repeated with the same methodology, and you can tell the difference between the two over time?
[09:18] (TheTailor) rightooo, when were millions in Germany protesting?
[09:19] (rightooo) TheTailor ...the fact that u dont protest doesnt mean you are pro war
[09:19] (Aufk|aren) TT: These things have margins of error for sampling things. It's a very strict process, especially for the bigger polling organisations like Gallup, Pew, MORI, etc.
[09:19] (FreeTrad3) Morning. Any major developments in the news ?
[09:19] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, that's my opinion of them, yes. In the same polls you mentioned, were they taken by other groups over time? Or the same people?
[09:19] (Aufk|aren) FT: The Iranians are going to release the female sailor.
[09:19] (BillFrugg) NOT protesting == pro war? what?!
[09:19] (rightooo) TheTailor ..i didnt say millions were protesting in Germany ..i said i am one of millions and millions in germany who opposed the war
[09:19] (thx1138^) BillFrugg he said 'doesn't mean'
[09:19] (Eeyore) FreeTrad3 lookin like something is actually happening Reg!
[09:19] (Aufk|aren) FT: This morning, the MoD made proof public that they were in Iraqi territory. We also suspended trading with Iran.
[09:20] (L0c0) FreeTrad3: 2 more chlorine bombs, in falluja
[09:20] (cyberfrg) female sailor trade is just to buy more time
[09:20] (TheTailor) rightooo, and on the other side of the coin, it doesn't mean people that don't protest are antiwar either.
[09:20] (Aufk|aren) FT: The Iranians have said they will release the female soldier "very soon." No word on the rest.
[09:20] (cyberfrg) not even a trade, just giving her back
[09:20] (FreeTrad3) I heard that.
[09:20] (BillFrugg) thx1138^: Ah! missed that
[09:20] (rightooo) TheTailor ...the polls show what people were thinking
[09:20] (TheTailor) rightooo, people that are really antiwar, will protest, and not just one day a year, EVERY DAY.
[09:20] (thx1138^) Aufk|aren "in ...two...more...minutes..."
[09:20] (Aufk|aren) TT: I don't think there's any reason to have that degree of distrust for polls. When you accept the inbuilt margin of error, the ones by the major polling organisations are pretty much reliable.
[09:20] (TheTailor) rightooo, only if they support your position.
[09:21] (FreeTrad3) Hmm, The guy who was their spokesperson, I detect a little bit of nervousness in his voice and body language. I dont think he agrees with his countries actions.
[09:21] (rightooo) TheTailor ...bullshit....u know that people can have a opinion without goin on protests
[09:21] (Aufk|aren) TT: I think it's fairly undeniable that most Germans opposed the Iraq War, even if they approved of the idea of getting rid of Saddam.
[09:21] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, believe what you wish, you dodged my question.
[09:21] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren its a good bet, if teh UK actually DOES anthing, the Iranians will let them all go right away. Typically the ISkamic world bets on the west being a paper tiger and typcally they win. we either dont do anthing or if we do, they just have to give the people back and no consequnces. so from there point of view, its worth the risk
[09:21] (Aufk|aren) TT: I don't see how it says anything about the actual merits of the decision though.
[09:21] (Aufk|aren) TT: What question?
[09:21] (Aufk|aren) TT: I can't dodge it if I don't see it.
[09:21] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, that's my opinion of them, yes. In the same polls you mentioned, were they taken by other groups over time? Or the same people?
[09:21] (Aufk|aren) TT: Oh, right.
[09:21] (BillFrugg) not very many would hold a pro-war protest...
[09:21] (TheTailor) *were they taken by other groups over time? Or the same people?*
[09:22] (Aufk|aren) TT: Polls aren't taken of the same people. But if they repeat the exact same methodology, even if the figures are off you can see a definite trend over time.
[09:22] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, if the NYT takes a poll every month...
[09:22] (cyberfrg) so, who are incharge of the police in tel afar and why arn't they being held accountable for the police's actions
[09:22] (Aufk|aren) TT: If you do two polls in the exact same way six months apart, even if the hard figures are wrong the trend is reliable.
[09:22] (thx1138^) germany got caught with their hand well in the oil-for-food cookie jar just like france and russia. unlike the latter two however, germany did the right thing and stood up against this terror sponsoring tyrant.
[09:22] (FreeTrad3) British released their exact coordinates at the time of capture, Iran also released coordinates both of which were in Iraqi water. Then Iran Changed the coordinated apparently after they realized they had also given Iraq Coordinants.. Looks bad for them.
[09:22] (Eeyore) BillFrugg most who attend anti war protests are pro war but usally just on the otehr side
[09:22] (L0c0) Several readers let us know about a little problem with presidential hopeful John McCain's MySpace page. Looks as though some staffer didn't read the fine print of the "credit" clause when selecting a template for the page. The template author and CEO of Newsvine, Mike Davidson, noticed this and didn't care too much. But the McCain page was pulling an image from Davidson's site, costing him bandwidth every time someone visited the candidate's
[09:23] (L0c0) haha
[09:23] (Aufk|aren) FT: Heh. The difference is that the British also released GPS evidence, not just coordinates. The Iranians changed their position. It's obvious that they're full of crap.
[09:23] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, bottom line, you don't know if theya re even asking anyone, and if they are, you don't know if it's a widely distributed question, of if all people polled are at the same pub.
[09:23] (Eeyore) thx1138^ dont forget canada. Jean Chretiens son was a major share holder at Petro Fina Elf
[09:23] (FreeTrad3) Abusive Domain or User
[09:23] (FreeTrad3) Auf, Indeed. The problem with polls is not thier accuracy, Its their interpretation. The more the poll is a black and white type question the more easy it is to interpret the results.
[09:23] (BillFrugg) Eeyore, yeah. I've seen that myself. Anti-protest protesters are put in the camera as anti-war protesters
[09:23] (Aufk|aren) TT: You're constantly like this - extreme, unwarranted cynicism. Can you imagine that Gallup or Pew could get away with not polling anyone and just making up results? The idea is just ridiculous.
[09:23] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, then there is the issue of leading questions.
[09:23] (FreeTrad3) People who want to end the war in Iraq for example, If you get into the reasons why, they are different as night and day.
[09:24] (Aufk|aren) TT: Right, that's important. But when we're getting to the stage of saying that the polls are being faked, that's just playing silly buggers.
[09:24] (FreeTrad3) Some rightwingers want to end it because they trust the Iraqis....for example.
[09:24] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, I look at results and actions of people, not polls, that's just me.
[09:24] (Lupine) "Do you support the just actions of the President, or do you support the treasonous criminal actions of Ted Kennedy" ;-)
[09:24] (thx1138^) FreeTrad3 and yet not a single one of them has any idea on what to do to bring stability to the region.
[09:24] (FreeTrad3) Its not because they believe initially the cause was wrong.
[09:24] (Aufk|aren) TT: Right. That's the difference between quantitative and qualitative research.
[09:24] (FreeTrad3) In fact Democratic Senator Ben Nelson who changed a vote he said he would never change admits that it was a noble cause.
[09:24] (cyberfrg) i don't think there's a person on this planet other then the terrorists that want to keep fighting this war without end... it's all a matter of WHEN
[09:25] (L0c0) "Is Lupine a homosexual or just possibley Canadian?"
[09:25] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, in the end, history doesn't rely on what pollsters found, it looks at the end result.
[09:25] (thx1138^) FreeTrad3 i find most unfortunately that the cut and runners are doing nothing more with our foreign policy than sticking their head in the sand where its more comfortable for them.
[09:25] (Aufk|aren) TT: Quantitative is statistics (polling, in this case). Qualitative is seeing real people (case studies, etc.). When it comes to an issue like the support of an entire country for a war or not, qualitative research is better. When it comes to the opinions of a certain group of people, qualitative research is better.
[09:25] (Aufk|aren) ...
[09:25] (Aufk|aren) Errr...
[09:25] (Eeyore) BillFrugg I was at a PRO Bush rally here in Ottawa. The CBC intervewed me but never played it. they only played the people who sounded like idiots
[09:25] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, you won't change my mind, I do not trust polling.
[09:25] (Aufk|aren) I meant quantitative in the first one.
[09:25] (FreeTrad3) Ben Nelson is one of the better Democratic Senators, but he caved, Chuch Hagel I cant stand, I think this would be a damn good time for Lieberman to change parties, His silence has been deafening or not covered.
[09:25] (Aufk|aren) "When it comes to an issue like the support of an entire country for a war or not, quantitative research is better."
[09:25] (thx1138^) Aufk|aren i got that
[09:25] (Aufk|aren) That's what I meant.
[09:26] (cyberfrg) polls are results of a small group of people in limited areas ... how can you trust that?
[09:26] (FreeTrad3) thx, I find it disgusting and if Chuck Hagel has PTSS from Vietnam and cant make rational choices he shouldnt be in the senate.
[09:26] (Aufk|aren) TT: There's a difference between not trusting polling as absolute solid fact - the pitfalls of that sort of research always have to be considered - but to reject the idea that it can even get close to the truth is, like I said, extreme unwarranted cynicism.
[09:26] (FreeTrad3) punctuation removed to spare time.
[09:26] (FreeTrad3) hehe
[09:26] (Aufk|aren) TT: The polls conducted by major organisations like Gallup, Pew, MORI, etc. are extraordinarily professional. They are rigorously tested and improved.
[09:27] (rightooo) TheTailor ... so thats the problem ..u dont trust pollings .... just believe me ..Germany didnt support the Iraq war ..and german people were mostly against the iraq war..thats a fact
[09:27] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, I gave you an example that blows the polls right out of the water earlier, therea re no mass protests against the war here like there were in Viet Nam, that clearly shows that polls saying 2/3rd's of this couuntry are against the war are clearly wrong, if there were, they would be out there, every day.
[09:27] (TheTailor) En masse.
[09:27] (_HellMngr) I'd like to take this moment to note that America is fucking awesome.
[09:27] (Aufk|aren) TT: But that's just nonsense, and you ought to know better. Just because most people aren't protesting doesn't mean they don't oppose the war. First and foremost, the majority just don't care that much.
[09:28] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, oh, and lets not forget that these poll takers are in it for what? PROFIT)
[09:28] (Aufk|aren) TT: Right, and why would the pollsters profit more by giving skewed results?
[09:28] (FreeTrad3) Just cause there are or are not protests does not make the polls wrong, it only means the feeling of anti war, is not nearly as strong as it was in Vietnam. THe Anti war Sentiment is not nearly as strong as it was in VIetnam..
[09:28] (Aufk|aren) Surely they earn more if they get a reputation for being near the truth, eh?
[09:28] (Yaakov) It is my impression that Germans are societally anti-war at this point and it takes very clear cause for them to feel comfortable enough to even *consider* the idea as legitimate. Anti-war would be the default assumption.
[09:28] (FreeTrad3) IN fact I believe it could be shifted..
[09:28] (rightooo) Aufklaren ..thanks dor making that clear
[09:28] (Eeyore) the majority generally go with fasion. fasion is against the war. no one wants to appear not to have an opinion.
[09:28] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, what I know is what I see, and I lived through the Viet Nam era, I know what I saw, I was in Washington with 500,000 others...
[09:28] (FreeTrad3) Polls are accurate if you look at them. Again the problem is interpretation.
[09:29] (FreeTrad3) THey are accurate when they produce a similar result time after time and they do.
[09:29] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, and again, the questions asked...
[09:29] (Aufk|aren) TT: Right, but you're talking about a different time. Student radicalism is as dead as the Dodo - I can tell you that from my own experiences. People care about iPods, not about social change.
[09:29] (Aufk|aren) TT: Protesting is for the wacky few.
[09:29] (TheTailor) FT, maybe, if they are done by different groups.
[09:29] (FreeTrad3) TT, Right but for example which issue is at question here ?
[09:29] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, protesting was far more than that during Viet Nam.
[09:29] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, there were millions out there, every day.
[09:29] (FreeTrad3) What poll is at question ?
[09:30] (TheTailor) FT, none, we are talking about polls in general and my distrust of them.
[09:30] (rightooo) FreeTrad3 ...TheTailor is questioning pollings in general
[09:30] (Aufk|aren) TT: I know. Like I said, it was a different time. And the Vietnam war was opposed much more vigorously. The degree to which people oppose the war is irrelevant. Whether it's just a vague and unimportant opinion they have or whether it's an all-consuming obsession is irrelevant to the question of whether or not most Germans opposed the war
[09:31] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren student radicalism is dead? I guess it depends what you mean. it seems to me that students are as politcaly fasionable as ever. they are anti US anti Capitolsm (whatever that is) anti anything usefull pretty much and viciously so as long as its fasionable to be so
[09:31] (Aufk|aren) TT: And most Germans did oppose the war. I don't see how that matters, *AT ALL*, to whether or not it was right or wrong.
[09:31] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, here's a poll question the left hates, was it a good thing to remove Saddam?
[09:31] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: It's dead, at least in comparison to the past. At least here in Britain. The extent of rebellion these days are the trendies wearing keffiyehs, and most don't even know what the hell they mean.
[09:31] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, but you rarely see questions like that asked, or reported if theya re asked.
[09:31] (Aufk|aren) TT: Right. And most Germans probably approved of that idea - that it was right to remove Saddam. I think most just disapproved of the way we went about it.
[09:32] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren thank god for small mercies
[09:32] (Aufk|aren) TT: Look at those polls from Gallup and Pew I gave you earlier.
[09:32] (FreeTrad3) I went back and looked at every poll Gallup ever did on a presidential race which can be fluid and change by day. IN fact Bush was 2% ahead the weekend heading into the polls or the week, in national polls, on Friday Fox News reported he had a drunk Driving. And over the weekend Gore said he would return blacks to a time when they were considered 3/5ths a person
[09:32] (FreeTrad3) (A distorion of history) so by poll day push won by a hair and may have barely lost the non electoral national vote
[09:32] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, haha, gee, didn't we try EVERY other way to remove Saddam?
[09:32] (FreeTrad3) push = Bush
[09:32] (Aufk|aren) They asked people whether or not they opposed the war in all circumstances, whether they opposed it under the control of the UN, or whether they opposed a unilateral coalition invasion by America.
[09:32] (rightooo) Aufklaren ..exactly
[09:33] (Aufk|aren) TT: Right, but that's irrelevant. I thought we were talking about German approval of the war in the way it was actually carried out.
[09:33] (Aufk|aren) I don't even see the point of this conversation. What does it matter what Germans think?
[09:33] (rightooo) Aufklaren ...most British people opposed the war also..am i right?
[09:33] (Aufk|aren) And I don't mean that in a harsh way.
[09:33] (Aufk|aren) I mean, what relevance does it have to our discussion of whether it's right or wrong?
[09:33] (FreeTrad3) Why do I say he may have lost the popular vote ? Well because not only polls but actual elections have a margine of error...And a lot of votes were not even counted in the end. IN states Gore clearly won they didnt count all the popular votes.. which could of changed not hte electoral outcome but it could have changed the popoular outcome.
[09:33] (Yaakov) We need to send Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to help promote Sunni minority rights in Iraq.
[09:34] (Aufk|aren) rightooo: No. At the time of the invasion itself, a very slim majority of people supported the war. Prior to, and after that, most opposed it.
[09:34] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, innitially yes, and I don't believe the polls that say *most* Germans are against the war.
[09:34] (FreeTrad3) Auf, but in the USA it was a super majority which supported it.
[09:34] (Aufk|aren) FT: Yep.
[09:34] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, if they asked (and they won't) if removal of Saddam was a good thing, Germans will say they agree it was a good thing.
[09:34] (Aufk|aren) TT: Well, most Germans think the Iraq War, as it was carried out, is a bad idea. I don't think it's even worth contesting that point.
[09:35] (Aufk|aren) TT: But that's not relevant, is it? We're not talking about whether or not Germans thought getting rid of Saddam in an abstract snese was a good idea.
[09:35] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, as it was carried out? What does that mean?
[09:35] (Aufk|aren) Anyway, I want to get off this subject now...
[09:35] (FreeTrad3) People now by a majority in fact I dont think they are against the war, Ithink if you interpret the polls they are for ending the war, there is a difference actually.
[09:35] (Aufk|aren) The female British sailor is on Iranian TV.
[09:35] (Aufk|aren) Right now.
[09:35] (Aufk|aren) The bastards.
[09:35] (Aufk|aren) She looks scared.
[09:35] (Aufk|aren) What a bunch of absolute cunts. :/
[09:35] (FreeTrad3) Some believe we did what we needed to do, (Overthrow Saddam) and we should not leave it up to them.
[09:35] (TheTailor) Well scaredwon't kill her
[09:36] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, and I agree the Iranians are assholes, but this will be over soon I think.
[09:36] (FreeTrad3) A lot believe that the Iraqis should just take over and dont understand why we are helping rebuild a country..
[09:36] (Aufk|aren) She's talking, but the idiot BBC newsreaders are talking over her.
[09:36] (Aufk|aren) Unless they're dubbing her with Arabic anyawy.
[09:36] (Aufk|aren) anyway*
[09:36] (fordnut) He also said the U.S. Naval presence in the Persian Gulf has for the first time in the past four years reached the level that existed shortly before the invasion of Iraq in March 2003.
[09:36] (fordnut) Col.-Gen. Leonid Ivashov, vice president of the Academy of Geopolitical Sciences, said last week that the Pentagon is planning to deliver a massive air strike on Iran's military infrastructure in the near future.
[09:36] (Aufk|aren) They're broadcasting a letter from her to her parents too.
[09:36] (Aufk|aren) Claiming she's in great condition.
[09:36] * fordnut sings ohh mama I'm in fear for my life from the long arm of the law...
[09:36] (FreeTrad3) It doesnt make sense to them economically or militarily but then most of them have less knowlege of both topics than I do and most of the people here do.
[09:36] (Aufk|aren) I have an extraordinary degree of hatred for those people right now.
[09:36] * fordnut sings hangman is comin down from the gallows and I dont have very long..
[09:37] (FreeTrad3) Fordnut, No that song can't remember who sung it or its title.
[09:37] (FreeTrad3) Well there was a song with lyrics similar anyway.
[09:37] (fordnut) I think it was Styx
[09:37] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, sure, and it's justified, but remember the government there doesn't represent the views of the majority of it's people.
[09:37] (fordnut) or Bad Company
[09:37] (FreeTrad3) Ahh yeah that sounds right.
[09:37] (n9sgg_) Styx
[09:37] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, at least that's my guess.
[09:37] (FreeTrad3) One of the two.
[09:37] (Aufk|aren) ... she's talking now.
[09:38] (Aufk|aren) TT: I don't hate the Iranian people. Just their government.
[09:38] (Aufk|aren) BASTARDS.
[09:38] (Aufk|aren) They've made her say she trespassed into their waters.
[09:38] (TheTailor) I agree wholeheartedly.
[09:38] (Aufk|aren) "They were friendly, they were very hospitable, they were very thoguhtful...."
[09:38] (Aufk|aren) Yeah, sure.
[09:38] (FreeTrad3) Auf,Same here though hate isnt in my vocabulary when talking in the first person.
[09:38] (fordnut) those eggs Mahmoud has been layin the last 2 years are about to hatch
[09:38] (FreeTrad3) I honestly dont hate anyone.
[09:38] (Aufk|aren) That's why they're making you wear a headscarf.
[09:38] (fordnut) right on his little persian head
[09:38] (FreeTrad3) I have strong dislikes, I have people I think who should be dead.
[09:38] (TheTailor) FT, hate is a waste.
[09:38] (Aufk|aren) She sounds like she's being forced to say it.
[09:38] (Aufk|aren) It sounded scripted.
[09:38] (FreeTrad3) People dont understand my seeming illogic but Its not illogical for me.
[09:39] (Yaakov) FreeTrad3: I hope I am not on that list!
[09:39] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, that doesn't shock you does it?
[09:39] (Aufk|aren) We need to punish the Iranians for this. No ifs, no buts. Even if they hand them over in the next five minutes, they need to be punished.
[09:39] (FreeTrad3) Its lets call it spiritual without a religion or deity
[09:39] (FreeTrad3) Yaak, Your on friends list buddy!
[09:39] (fordnut) Aufk|aren: indeed
[09:39] (FreeTrad3) on my freinds list ;)
[09:39] (Yaakov) FreeTrad3: Freinds... so just a light beating with a pipe?
[09:39] (Yaakov) FreeTrad3: :)
[09:39] (Aufk|aren) She's wearing a headscarf, she's smoking a cigarette nervously...
[09:39] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, after they set them free
[09:39] (cyberfrg) video was just released of the captured soldiers?
[09:40] (Aufk|aren) TT: Yep.
[09:40] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, sink Iran's navy, every ship.
[09:40] (FreeTrad3) I would love to see Usama die, the leader or Iran, and why ? If not hatred ? Why ? I beleive they are responsible for killing people all the time who are innocent and for killing the minds of children with evil propaganda when it takes.
[09:40] (Aufk|aren) cyber: It's being broadcast right now, on an Arabic language Iranian channel.
[09:40] (Aufk|aren) Al-Alam I think it's called.
[09:40] (cyberfrg) WTB STREAM
[09:40] (cyberfrg) PST
[09:40] (Aufk|aren) It's on BBC News 24.
[09:40] (FreeTrad3) It Looks like we are building up for something in the middle east.
[09:40] (Aufk|aren) Might be able to get it on their website.
[09:40] (FreeTrad3) 2 battlegroups and aircraft carriers.
[09:41] (FreeTrad3) I think Canada might have one battleship or group in the gulf.
[09:41] (FreeTrad3) THe Uk has how man ?
[09:41] (fordnut) the French have one there
[09:41] (cyberfrg) i'm sure it will be on a billion websites in a few mins
[09:41] (TheTailor) 2 battlegroups is enought to bring Iran to it's knees and set them back 20 years.
[09:41] (FreeTrad3) Canada might have withdrawn theirs. Im not sure.
[09:41] (fordnut) The Charles Du Gualle
[09:41] (FreeTrad3) they had budgetary problems with their navy.
[09:41] (fordnut) which is supporting ops in Afghanistan
[09:41] (cyberfrg) FreeTrad3: iran does NOT want to tangle with our navy
[09:41] (FreeTrad3) Or our allies.
[09:41] (FreeTrad3) Most our allies use some of our technology
[09:41] (cyberfrg) aye
[09:41] (Lupine) "Item, qe nul soit si hardy de crier havok sur peine davoir la test coupe."
[09:41] (FreeTrad3) the aegis system
[09:42] (FreeTrad3) Japan uses it
[09:42] (Lupine) "Likewise be all manner of beasts, when they be brought into the field and cried havoke, then every man to take his part."
[09:42] (FreeTrad3) Britain has some of its own proprietary kick ass technology.
[09:42] (Aufk|aren) FT: I think the British have close to total tech cooperation with the Americans. I think there's only a very few things that aren't shared with us.
[09:42] (cyberfrg) "CRYHAVOK AND LET SLIP THE DOGS OF WAR!" lol
[09:43] (FreeTrad3) Auf, Yes and the British have contributed some very nice high tect equipment as well.
[09:43] (thebarry) Aufk|aren, who do you mean 'us'?
[09:43] (Lupine) the main issue would be saturation attacks at the straight.. it is narrow, no room to move.. and you could overwelm the Aegis in shere numbers.
[09:43] (Aufk|aren) thebarry: The British.
[09:43] (FreeTrad3) Despite the population of Britain (popular) Britain is Americas Closest ally and vice versa.
[09:43] (thebarry) ok
[09:43] (Lupine) cyberfr0g: the first is from The Black Book of the Admiralty of 1385
[09:43] (thebarry) yah you guys probably have access to some nice toys
[09:43] (thebarry) i think you just don't spend as much money on the toys as we do
[09:44] (thebarry) which is why you don't have quite as many :/
[09:44] (Lupine) cyberfr0g: basically.. total war. destroy everything. leave none alive
[09:44] (FreeTrad3) American people generally like the British, I dont know how the popular sentiment is, I would imagine there is a large anti american contingent.. Though again there is a network of worldwide socialists and greens and others.
[09:44] (cyberfrg) Lupine: yup
[09:44] (thebarry) we like blair
[09:44] (FreeTrad3) You kjow there is a huge irony in that the USA was the first country in the world to take the environment really seriously and institute laws and regulations to clean it up.
[09:44] (thebarry) and a lot of brits
[09:44] (thebarry) yep
[09:44] (FreeTrad3) And yet we are considered today to be the impediment.
[09:44] (thebarry) we were
[09:45] (thebarry) we figured out how stupid it was
[09:45] (thebarry) and stopped
[09:45] (Harsen) FreeTrad3, Have you seen "The Great Global Warming Swindle" ?
[09:45] (thebarry) the rest of the world hasnt yet :(
[09:45] (cyberfrg) i personally have a great respect for the british aside from some ireland stuff
[09:45] * Eeyore has seen half of it and its excellent. will dcc to anyoje who wants it
[09:45] (thebarry) i'm jk
[09:45] (Harsen) Eeyore, I have a full link to it on youtube
[09:45] (cyberfrg) Harsen: absolutly fantastic shows
[09:45] (cyberfrg) show
[09:45] (Aufk|aren) FT: By far the majority of Britons want to keep our close relationship with America. There's a popular conception that we're sometimes too subservient, and that we maybe oughtn't to be *too* close, but there's no real popular anti-American sentiment. I mean, not in a proper snese - derision and the like is pretty common, but no hatred.
[09:45] (Eeyore) Harsen may I know it? I will email it to my list
[09:45] (Harsen) Eeyore, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU
[09:46] (thebarry) Aufk|aren, do you like the "yank tanks" ??
[09:46] (FreeTrad3) Well, I believe this. I was an environmentalist in the 70s and a heavy duty one.. But We have cleaned out environment like if i was to quantify it about 90% its much much nicer than it was in 1970. But the last 10% I think requires a careful cost/benefit analysis, because the last 10% is questionable whether its even needed and the economic cost to the poor (they would suffer first) then the entire country would be harmed.
[09:46] (FreeTrad3) Perfection is not my goal.
[09:46] (Aufk|aren) thebarry: Do I like American tanks?
[09:46] (Aufk|aren) thebarry: I have no opinion. I'm not a tech geek. :)
[09:46] (Aufk|aren) I'm sure they're absolutely teriffic.
[09:46] (cyberfrg) mmmmmm tanks
[09:46] (thebarry) no i meant SUVs
[09:46] (LinusVanP) Tanks a million!
[09:47] (thebarry) i heard they call em yank tanks
[09:47] (thebarry) or chelsea cruisers or some shit
[09:47] (Eeyore) thanks Harsen
[09:47] (LinusVanP) crank tankers
[09:47] (Aufk|aren) thebarry: Personally, no. That's what I mean by common "derision" - it isn't dislike, it's just a sort of mild disdain. SUVs are a part of that.
[09:47] (LinusVanP) I want to see one of these cougars
[09:47] (Aufk|aren) thebarry: I've never heard that phrase before, but it sounds like something people might say.
[09:47] (LinusVanP) is that what they're called, the impervious transport vehicles/
[09:48] (Aufk|aren) British soldiers say stuff like "all the gear, no idea" about American troops. But it's good-natured rivalry and jesting. Not anything malicious.
[09:48] (thebarry) i think there's a lot of disdain for the american south
[09:48] (FreeTrad3) I dont anymore.
[09:48] (Aufk|aren) thebarry: Heh, yeah. You're probably right there
[09:48] (FreeTrad3) Since the american south is starting to resemble the rest of the USA.
[09:48] (LinusVanP) yeah right, that's why record number of dollars were contributed towards katrina victims
[09:48] (FreeTrad3) Both technologically, educationally and economically.
[09:48] (LinusVanP) through red cross
[09:48] (thebarry) i dunno, seems like there's a lot of stereotyping of the south going on
[09:49] (Lupine) Aufk|aren: the doughboys are oversexed, overpaid and worst of all.. over here
[09:49] (LinusVanP) we just "disdain" them so much!
[09:49] (FreeTrad3) Sure and a lot of the souths stereotyping will go on for decades if not a century.
[09:49] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: It sounds better with a Brit "idea".
[09:49] (thebarry) where they big city liberal ideas are more in line with the brits
[09:49] (FreeTrad3) But thats what happens, you get a reputation its hard to get rid of it.
[09:49] (thebarry) or so it seems
[09:49] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: lol, yep. "Oversexed, overpaid and over here" is what people used to say about American GIs during WWII.
[09:49] (thebarry) just my impression
[09:49] (pilgrim`) just be sure to ratio viagra...else... the South shal Rise Again
[09:49] (LinusVanP) new yourkers are stereotyped, as are new englanders and people from jersey
[09:49] (Eeyore) Harsen did I send you thge link to the A Q Khan documentary?
[09:49] (LinusVanP) and CA
[09:49] (FreeTrad3) And the old south with its bigotry and vigilante justice, the way it treated blacks etc, is not something they can unlive in a few decades.
[09:50] (Harsen) Eeyore, nope
[09:50] (cyberfrg) oh MAN!! from out of the wood work!! http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-foley-investigation,0,1510222.story
[09:50] (cyberfrg) WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. -- Six months after resigning from Congress, former U.S. Rep. Mark Foley remains under criminal investigation for sexually explicit Internet communications with underage boys but faces no charges, authorities said Wednesday.
[09:50] (Eeyore) Harsen may I reccomend it please?
[09:50] (cyberfrg) "I can't really give any more detail other than to say we're still in the preliminary investigative stance and we are working with state authorities," said Debra Weierman, spokeswoman for the FBI's Washington field office.
[09:50] (Harsen) sure
[09:50] (cyberfrg) lol
[09:50] (FreeTrad3) Even though blacks in the south now hold positions in congress and are much more afluent and powerful as individuals and as a group.
[09:50] (FreeTrad3) A lot of it positive, Some of it like I would call the Jessi Jackson Syndrome, Negative.
[09:50] (thebarry) well, i'm from texas now
[09:50] (Eeyore) FreeTrad3 actually the biggest supporter of paying rstitution to southerners for the civil war is a black american history prof.
[09:50] (Aufk|aren) Stereotyping exists, but it isn't malicious. Just like Americans have a popular conception of Britons as haughty, tea-drinking, bad teeth etc. Some Brits think of Americans as gung-ho, cowboy-like and arrogant. It's a popular stereotype, but there's nothing nasty about it.
[09:51] (thebarry) i don't see as much of the south-bashing as i did when i was in louisiana
[09:51] (FreeTrad3) But Jessie probably gets more support in the west and the north east.
[09:51] (Eeyore) FreeTrad3 in fact he wears a confed uniform every day
[09:51] (pilgrim`) "Auf you limeys are all the same ;)
[09:51] (thebarry) it's like ppl think texas is different
[09:51] (thebarry) or something
[09:51] (Lupine) FreeTrad3: and a hell of alot of high technology firms in "the south"
[09:51] (FreeTrad3) Auf hehe, You mean you dont have yellow teeth ?
[09:51] (FreeTrad3) Haha ;)
[09:51] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: Except on Top Gear.
[09:51] (LinusVanP) texas IS different, they make that clear themselves
[09:51] (LinusVanP) they like that
[09:51] (Lupine) gah.. did you see Top Gears "road trip across america"?
[09:51] (FreeTrad3) Eeyore, yeah.. I dont doubt that.
[09:51] (thebarry) different from the rest of the deep south i meant
[09:52] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: Actually, British "irony" is the opposite of American "irony" and it causes a lot of confusion.
[09:52] (LinusVanP) ah ok
[09:52] (thebarry) yah i was referring to the top gear shit
[09:52] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: Yeah, well Jeremy Clarkson is a cock. I wouldn't worry about him.
[09:52] (thebarry) on the deep south
[09:52] (pilgrim`) peoples need to understanda and embrace their unique qualites in ways that compliment the family of mankind and do not exclude each other
[09:52] (LinusVanP) well, its leaning tex-mex or SW
[09:52] (Eeyore) FreeTrad3 he is featured in season 4 of Penn & Teller's Bullshit
[09:52] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: Exactly. Some Americans seem to use irony to mean something sort of like sarcasm. :p
[09:52] (FreeTrad3) Yaak, WE have idolized James Bond from MI6 for decades ;)
[09:52] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: I always remember his dream car, for which he paid a LOT, is pure American.
[09:52] (FreeTrad3) And immortalized him.
[09:52] (pilgrim`) Ian Felmming was a total wash as a spy
[09:52] (thebarry) it's kind of hard to say texans are stupid like the rest of the deep south, with mission control in houston
[09:52] (thebarry) :/
[09:53] (Lupine) and lets face it: Mr Bean represents the height of civilized england.
[09:53] (Aufk|aren) As in, "I was being ironic." When what was said was actually had nothing to do with irony.
[09:53] (LinusVanP) har
[09:53] (LinusVanP) Bean
[09:53] (FreeTrad3) Its true in every country comparison when you poll americans they like the other country more than vice versa except our obvious enemies.
[09:53] (Yaakov) Texas Instruments is no slacker corporation.
[09:53] (Aufk|aren) Oh dear, Mr Bean. I hear there's a new Bean movie coming out.
[09:53] (Lupine) thebarry: yep.. plus you have Huntsville Ala, Kennedy Space Center, Florida
[09:53] (LinusVanP) mr bean reminds of the "german" guy on the tricycle from Laugh-In
[09:53] (Lupine) his movie sucked ass..
[09:53] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: I think it is a usage thing.
[09:53] (Eeyore) Mr. Bean is the one thing that actor did that isnt at all funny. dont understand how that propelled him into the mainstream
[09:53] (pilgrim`) Mr Bean is OK, but I think Rowan's finest hour was as the Tucan in Lion King
[09:53] (FreeTrad3) IN canada 10 years ago a poll was taken, 5% of Americans said in a poll they had negative views of Canadians, in the exact same poll canadians 15% had a negative view of Americans.
[09:54] (pilgrim`) Black Adder is a HOOT!
[09:54] (thebarry) which boeing warplanes are built in texas?
[09:54] (pilgrim`) I have all of them
[09:54] (Eeyore) pilgrim` his finest hours are all in Black Adder
[09:54] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: I try to explain to people that when a Brit who you *think* likes you calls you something terribly rude, it means the opposite.
[09:54] * psychoidz slaps berendam around a bit with a large trout
[09:54] * psychoidz slaps berendam around a bit with a large trout
[09:54] * psychoidz slaps berendam around a bit with a large trout
[09:54] (LinusVanP) The guy that stars on "Extras" who plays the lead actor in a sticom within the show, reminds me of a Bean character
[09:54] * psychoidz slaps berendam around a bit with a large trout
[09:54] * psychoidz slaps berendam around a bit with a large trout
[09:54] (FreeTrad3) I admit nationally my least loved ally so called is France.
[09:54] (pilgrim`) Tony Robinson was good too, and does a bang up job on documentaries too
[09:54] (LinusVanP) "Are ya havin' a laugh?"
[09:55] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: What do you mean?
[09:55] (pilgrim`) Fry and Laurie ...now THAT is comemdy!
[09:55] (Aufk|aren) LinusVap: "Choo havin a larf?"
[09:55] (pilgrim`) comedy
[09:55] (LinusVanP) solly mate
[09:55] (Eeyore) i also never thought benny hill was at all funny till I found out he was gay. then suddenly I got the joke
[09:55] (pilgrim`) and they were good in Black Adder too
[09:55] (Aufk|aren) Benny Hill was not funny. :/
[09:55] (FreeTrad3) And its based on France has always been different than the rest of europe.. Both in their views of themselves which are exagerated and thier disdain for non french.
[09:55] (pilgrim`) Benny Hill was pretty low humor
[09:55] (pilgrim`) sort of a Brit Roazanne
[09:55] (thx1138^) monty python still the funniest brits.
[09:55] (thx1138^) and eddie izzard.
[09:56] (Aufk|aren) Benny Hill was terrible. The last remnant of the god-awful tradition of working-class Music Hall crap.
[09:56] (FreeTrad3) But the French will have problems over the next decades which should be much worse than ours.
[09:56] (td) Donald Trump says that everywhere he goes to do business they hate americans
[09:56] (LinusVanP) I always wished monty python would be sub-titled
[09:56] (FreeTrad3) Civil Unrest, etc.
[09:56] (td) is he lying
[09:56] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: When a British person says to a friend "You are stupid as a rock.", it means "You are quite smart and suggesting that you are stupid as a rock is obviously silly."
[09:56] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: Right. Sarcasm.
[09:56] (FreeTrad3) Hey TD!
[09:56] (td) HEY!
[09:56] (pilgrim`) World Peace will come when Brits start dressing like the French.....
[09:56] (thebarry) The F-22 Raptor, the world's most advanced fifth-generation fighter, is built by Lockheed Martin in partnership with Boeing and Pratt & Whitney. Parts and subsystems are provided by approximately 1,000 suppliers in 42 states. F-22 production takes place at Lockheed Martin Aeronautics facilities in Palmdale, Calif.; Meridian, Miss.; Marietta, Ga.; and Fort Worth, Texas, as well as Boeing's Seattle plant. Final assembly and initial flight-
[09:56] (LinusVanP) pilgrim`, :)
[09:56] (LinusVanP) oui!
[09:56] (thebarry) we're building the raptor !
[09:56] (FreeTrad3) thebarry, I know that.. ;)
[09:56] (pilgrim`) I played the game on DOS
[09:56] (FreeTrad3) Who is claiming otherwise ?
[09:57] (td) Donald Trump is lying to push an agenda of surrender
[09:57] (LinusVanP) does anyone have any links to this up-armored transport vehicle called the cougar I think?
[09:57] (FreeTrad3) Its assembled mostly if not completely in Texas.
[09:57] (Eeyore) hey can anyojne here please reccomend good bit torrent sites?
[09:57] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: Americans don't do that when they actually want to *compliment*. We might say something like that casually, but Brits of my acquaintance say that stuff *as* a compliment.
[09:57] (berendam) Every time I mention my fascination with the female armpit every Nickelodeon cartoon cliche is thrown back at me. Thoughts of foul odor and animated green clouds must jump into people’s minds. Believe me, if a woman smells so bad she is attracting flies and emitting visible green clouds... I ain’t touching her! Yes, after vigorous activity you sweat. Sweat combines with the evil bacteria. Bacteria makes the evil smell... uhh, tha
[09:57] (berendam) But I digress, some people like the natural smell of a woman. Well, there's nothing wrong with the natural scent of a woman. Everyone has a unique natural scent, it is actually something entirely different than wicked body order. Are you with me? Good, 'Cause I'm making sense, I promise. Besides, every woman I have been in intimate contact with has had far better smelling underarms than a certain other feminine region... and most
[09:57] (FreeTrad3) But parts are built by the 3 companies you mentioned.. and shipped to the assembly
[09:57] (Aufk|aren) I don't know what the Iranians are playing at. As soon as Faye Tunney is released in the next couple of days, she'll just say she was told to say what she did about being in Iranian territory. Who do they think they are kidding?
[09:57] (berendam) So I got the basics out of the way, trying to get those who would roll their eyes at me to understand the logic of my love of women’s armpits.. Now on to the question I know is truly racking your brain. So, what is attractive about an armpit and what could you possibly do with it?
[09:58] (pilgrim`) Auf their own PR machine
[09:58] (LinusVanP) thanks for that complete waste of bytes
[09:58] (FreeTrad3) Pratt& Whitney I believe produced the best dog fight aircraft of ww2.. Their engines. Correct me if I am wrong.
[09:58] (pilgrim`) this is a FUNNY Fark headline: Airbus wants more taxpayer money. In related news, Boeing execs call room service to send up more hookers and some clean money to roll around on
[09:58] (Yaakov) LinusVanP: You mean the Israeli one?
[09:58] (FreeTrad3) Yaakov, Killed someone! Schedule a funeral!
[09:58] (LinusVanP) no, american
[09:58] (JupaSaur) fyi, over the noon hour edt, the cnn broadcast comes form the cnn u.k. bureau. that has just concluded. almost the entire broadcast from the u.k. was about the brit marines captured by the iranians. and the cast was very pro brit and anti-iran
[09:59] (fordnut) FreeTrad3: Rolls Royce produced the best fighter engine.. the Merlin, which was used in the P51D mustang
[09:59] (Aufk|aren) JupaSaur: I wonder why. Maybe it's because the Iranians are being total shits?
[09:59] (Eeyore) not to mention the Luftwaffe
[09:59] (JupaSaur) i would like to get a chance to fly a p51 some day
[09:59] (FreeTrad3) Hey Mongo!
[10:00] (Eeyore) as Chamberlain was selling rolls royce engines to Hitler
[10:00] (Yaakov) LinusVanP: bottom of page: http://www.defense-update.com/newscast/0207/news/240207_mrap.htm
[10:00] (mongo`) hey ft
[10:00] (LinusVanP) ok thanks
[10:00] (mongo`) brits taking a bit of action in iran?
[10:00] (FreeTrad3) I have to think, What business to I need to attend to first today. hmm. I have several items on my plate.
[10:00] (Yaakov) LinusVanP: http://www.defense-update.com/products/g/golan.htm # better page
[10:01] (Aufk|aren) I can't believe the Iranians are making her read this statement. Who do they think they are kidding? :/
[10:01] (LinusVanP) where did I hear cougar?
[10:01] (Yaakov) LinusVanP: I don't know if that's it--but it is what I meant.
[10:01] (JupaSaur) the brit marine thing is on cnn now
[10:01] (Aufk|aren) She's been told to say "there was no aggression." FFS, they turned up in six heavily armed boats and forced them into Iranian waters at gunpoint.
[10:01] (LinusVanP) that apperas to be it
[10:01] (mongo`) aufk i thought they were releasing her?
[10:01] (Yaakov) It is a mean looking truck.
[10:01] (LinusVanP) the cougar is an uparmored helicopter
[10:01] (LinusVanP) apparently
[10:02] (Aufk|aren) mongo': Not before parading her on TV illegally, apparently.
[10:02] (mongo`) well
[10:02] (fordnut) Aufk|aren: an act of war, imo
[10:02] (mongo`) international law is sort of sketchy anyway
[10:02] (Aufk|aren) The Foreign Office is saying that it's "totally unacceptable" for them to parade marines on television, and they're "demanding their immediate release."
[10:03] (Aufk|aren) I wish the Foreign Office would make some sort of reference to military force, even if it's in sneaky diplomatic code.
[10:03] (mongo`) i read the statment by the MOD
[10:03] (fordnut) glad you're comin over to my side man
[10:03] (mongo`) it is in the new york times
[10:03] (LinusVanP) has iran offered a prisoner swap?
[10:03] (fordnut) this Iranian aggression cannot go unchecked
[10:04] (LinusVanP) I mean, what is their objective other than alienating even putin?
[10:05] (Aufk|aren) LinusVanP: Iran wont get a prisoner swap, and it knows it. The Revolutionary Guards in Iraq were arrested by Americans on foreign soil for aiding the insurgency. The British troops were illegally seized in foreign territory, where they were carrying out their lawful duties.
[10:05] (Aufk|aren) LinusVanP: It's doing this to try and flex its muscles and show how tough they are. The leader of the Revolutionary Guards threatened to do this only a few days before it happened.
[10:05] (Yaakov) http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2006/05/crows-public-videogame-turns-into-weapon-trainer/index.php#more
[10:05] (LinusVanP) I realize that; was wondering if they had publicly announced a request for exchange
[10:05] (Aufk|aren) LinusVanP: Nope.
[10:05] (Aufk|aren) LinusVanP: They're still sticking to the ridiculous position that they were trespassing on Iranian territory.
[10:05] (bill-) Auf: you're aware of the Iranian allegations re: UK/US support for Arab insurgency in Khuzestan?
[10:06] (mongo`) well they were 500 meters from the border
[10:06] (Aufk|aren) bill-: Yep.
[10:06] (mongo`) so it is damned close
[10:06] (Aufk|aren) mongo': No, they were 2 miles.
[10:06] (cyberfrg) 1.7miles?
[10:06] (cyberfrg) that's not close
[10:06] (mongo`) nope
[10:06] (Aufk|aren) mongo': 1.7 nautical miles = 1.95 miles or so.
[10:06] (Aufk|aren) mongo': Yes.
[10:06] (fordnut) we've been on a collision course with Iran for years
[10:06] (cyberfrg) i say lets get it over with
[10:06] (mongo`) this is from the british Ministry of defense
[10:06] (Harsen) fordnut, since 79
[10:06] (mongo`) i believe
[10:06] (fordnut) indeed
[10:07] (thebarry) oh snap
[10:07] (thebarry) The latest Fighting Falcons rolling off the Lockheed Martin's production line in Fort Worth, Texas, are advanced Block 50/52 and lately, Block 60 versions.
[10:07] (thebarry) we make the f16 too !
[10:07] (Aufk|aren) mongo': No, that's what Iran claimed.
[10:07] (Aufk|aren) mongo': In its second claim, after they backtracked on the first (which would have put them in Iraqi territory - apparently they don't have anyone who understands coordinates).
[10:07] (Eeyore) fordnut Iran is on a collision course with civilisation since the Iatollah Komeni. England is the best representative of civilisaiton symbolically.
[10:07] (Aufk|aren) mongo': This morning, the British released GPS evidence showing they were 1.7 nautical miles inside Iraqi territory.
[10:07] (gopp) hi
[10:07] (Eeyore) brb
[10:07] (JupaSaur) don't misunderstand this, i want to see the brit marines released asap. however, since bush and blair attacked iraq and lied to us about the facts upon which that attack was justified and since they have been lying about so much ever since, i am not prepared to believe the brits' version of what happened and whether the brit marines were in iraq or iran water when they were captured
[10:07] (td) Aufklaren: did you see Faye Tunneys letter to her parents
[10:07] (fordnut) Eeyore: yeah, agreed.. at least with the first part;)
[10:07] (td) I want you all to know that I am well and safe. I am being well looked after. I am fed 3 meals a day and have a constant supply of fluids.
[10:07] (gopp) Aufk|aren so is or are they going to goto war
[10:08] (cyberfrg) Earlier, the Ministry of Defence issued data it said proved the group had been 1.7 nautical miles inside Iraqi waters when they were seized.
[10:08] (cyberfrg) Deputy Chief of the Defence Staff, Vice Admiral Charles Style, gave detailed co-ordinates which he said proved that.
[10:08] (Harsen) Aufk|aren, So whats the latest developments in Iran story?
[10:08] (gopp) td what did she write
[10:08] (td) constant supply of fluids.. I bet
[10:08] (Aufk|aren) gopp: Not at this stage.
[10:08] (Eeyore) fordnut whith whihc do you disagree
[10:08] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: They've paraded Faye Turney on TV)
[10:08] (mongo`) yes 1.7 nautical miles
[10:08] (cyberfrg) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6503657.stm
[10:08] (gopp) td so what that don't mean jack
[10:08] (td) Aufk|aren: did you see this http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=4150§ionid=3510101
[10:08] (cyberfrg) 1.7 nautical miles = 1.95632506 miles
[10:08] (gopp) td iran is a terriost state
[10:08] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: She looked afraid, smoking a cigarette nervously. She "admitted" they'd trespassed.
[10:08] (gopp) wtf .ir
[10:08] (Aufk|aren) td: Listen, and listen carefully.
[10:08] (gopp) td where do you get this stupid links
[10:08] (Aufk|aren) td: I don't give a FUCK what Iranian state TV says.
[10:08] (gopp) .ir
[10:08] (gopp) irleand
[10:08] (Aufk|aren) td: They're lying, pure and simple.
[10:08] (Aufk|aren) gopp: Iran.
[10:09] (gopp) oh
[10:09] (gopp) iraniantv lies
[10:09] (gopp) td why do you defend iran
[10:09] (td) it has her letter to her parents on it
[10:09] (Eeyore) cyberfr0g wow British navy uniforms have changed a lot since last I looked. whats with the black scarf?
[10:09] (Demopubli) Don't you love how the only thing that IS binding on the Timeline withdrawal bill is the votes of the Repubs. that will be used against them in 2008. Good move by the Dems, George W doesn't have to worry about reelection but his colleagues in congress do
[10:09] (gopp) td how do we know it her letter
[10:09] (LinusVanP) he isn't defending iran
[10:09] (LinusVanP) anyway gotta go
[10:09] (JupaSaur) the u.s. or brit navy could have come up with fake evidence. i do not trust them because of all the lies they have been doing
[10:09] (gopp) Demopubli thier should be no timeline
[10:09] (cyberfrg) go look at the facts, iran came up with coordinates saying they were in iranian waters and then the british came back and said "what you just gave us is still in iraq waters" and then iran came back and said "we were kidding, it was here"
[10:09] (Yaakov) Wow... I am glad I don't need this stuff... http://www.eojtllc.com/overview.php
[10:09] (Aufk|aren) td: They're showing the letter on TV too.
[10:09] (Demopubli) gopp I agree
[10:09] (Aufk|aren) td: The point is that it was given under duress.
[10:10] (gopp) linus he said the terment is this but it mean crap
[10:10] (td) How would you know
[10:10] (Aufk|aren) td: The point is that the British have given evidence that they were in Iraqi water.
[10:10] (td) they could be treating Faye Tunney like royalty
[10:10] (td) you dont know
[10:10] (Aufk|aren) td: She's under arrest against her will, you nitwit. By very definition it's under duress.
[10:10] (gopp) td so why not just realse her
[10:10] (Demopubli) Gopp but the point is to get the GOP on record so the vote can be used against them in 2008
[10:10] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren amazing isnt it?
[10:10] (Aufk|aren) td: What's with your constant defence of Iran?
[10:10] (JupaSaur) did they waterboard her?
[10:10] (td) because they need to investigate her first
[10:10] (gopp) Demopubli to get the liberal
[10:10] (gopp) Demopubli you mean the liberal
[10:10] (mongo`) well the UK isn't going to war just yet
[10:10] (gopp) for wanting to cutand run
[10:10] (cyberfrg) well they certinly had enough time to do what they wanted to them
[10:11] (gopp) cut and run
[10:11] (Aufk|aren) td: They don't need to "investigate" anything. She was in Iraqi territory. They know she was. This was a preplanned operation to kidnap British hostages. It had *nothing* to do with territory.
[10:11] (Eeyore) td my guess is, UK and NATO policy is, when arrested by these fucks you say what ever you have to, to stay alive. then you can eal a death blow to them later
[10:11] (JupaSaur) if you consider her statement under duress, then how about these statements given after waterboarding
[10:11] (gopp) td why do you defend iran
[10:11] (Aufk|aren) JupaSaur: We're not talking about waterboarding.
[10:11] (Aufk|aren) JupaSaur: My government doesn't use waterboarding.
[10:11] (td) Official sources told Press TV late on Wednesday that all the detained Britons carried GPS devices which clearly indicated they had left Iraqi territory and trespassed about 500 meters into Iran's waters in the Persian Gulf.
[10:11] (Harsen) Aufk|aren has a little helper [12:11] (gopp) td why do you defend iran
[10:11] (Aufk|aren) JupaSaur: I have absolutely zero interest in waterboarding.
[10:11] (gopp) JupaSaur what the fuck are you talking about waterboarding
[10:12] (Aufk|aren) td: Which is complete and utter shit.
[10:12] (Yaakov) Holy High Tech Hindenberg Batman! http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2005/10/us-cbo-gives-ok-to-hula-airships-for-airlift/index.php
[10:12] (Aufk|aren) brb, tea time.
[10:12] (td) Aufklaren: tea time
[10:12] (Demopubli) gopp Ol' fashioned politics my friend, if 67% of all Americans are against the war then the vote for continued support of the war will be used against GOP incumbents
[10:12] (Demopubli) correct?
[10:12] (gopp) Demopubli who said they are against the war
[10:13] (rightooo) ok i have to go
[10:13] (Demopubli) GOPP Every major poll
[10:13] (rightooo) bye all ..see ya later!
[10:13] (Demopubli) that's who
[10:13] (gopp) Demopubli hhhaahah you belive the liberal media polls
[10:13] (JupaSaur) what i am talking about that simply because the girl marine in iranian captivity everyone is saying her confession does not count becasue she is under duress yet when the u.s. waterboard's someone to get a confession that confession is valid and not under duress. you got to be kidding
[10:13] (gopp) Demopubli thier 42 % ins upport of the war then
[10:13] (gopp) support
[10:14] (gopp) Demopubli I don't care about mob rule
[10:14] (mongo`) Sky News broadcast what it said was a statement from the Iranian Embassy here, saying Iran said it had “sufficient evidence” to prove that the British sailors had penetrated 0.5 kilometers — roughly 500 yards — into Iranian waters.
[10:14] (Demopubli) gopp the "liberal" media, that's funny are you wearing your tin hat right now?
[10:14] (thebarry) lies
[10:14] (Eeyore) just in case any of you cultural and moral relativists still dont get it, I suggest you study the history of teh British navy and its role in ending slavery in Zanzibar
[10:14] (Harsen) Alright
[10:14] (Harsen) Who is more credible, the British Government or The Iranian Government?
[10:14] (Demopubli) gopp 33% in favor of war
[10:14] (thebarry) mongo`, they gave the brits one position of the sailors, then revised it moving it 2 miles east of the original
[10:14] (gopp) Demopubli good then I support the 33%
[10:15] (gopp) fuck the mob rule
[10:15] (JupaSaur) Harsen don't go there. neither of them are creditable
[10:15] (td) mob rule or majority rule?
[10:15] (thebarry) hahahahahaa
[10:15] (thebarry) JupaSaur, buaaahahahahah
[10:15] (gopp) I least we have 33% who are in support andwon't get bother by liberalbias
[10:15] (gopp) I bet it more
[10:15] (Harsen) The government of UK has equal credability as the Iranian government, JupaSaur ?
[10:15] (Demopubli) gopp Going down with a sinking ship are we? Brave but not bright
[10:15] (gopp) but the liberal mediaskew the polls Demopubli
[10:15] (Eeyore) Harsen if I had my way the UK would penetrate Iranian waters right into all the centrifuge stations all over Iran. the issue isnt one of credability. then they are using our own decency agianst us. the issue is, why does their govt still stand in power
[10:15] (gopp) Demopubli polls mean shit
[10:15] (gopp) Demopubli they are made up
[10:15] (mongo`) herzen: depends who is reading the statements
[10:15] (mongo`) you know that
[10:15] (Harsen) Eeyore, if I had my way Iran would have been bombed in 1979
[10:15] (gopp) Demopubli I hardly argue via polls
[10:16] (gopp) Demopubli if bush is a leader he leads not follows
[10:16] (Harsen) Who is more credible, the British Government or The Iranian Government?
[10:16] (mongo`) herzen: if you don't, you really should
[10:16] (Harsen) Its a simple one or the other
[10:16] (JupaSaur) Harsen the brit government lied about attacking iraq. the brit government is just as bad as the iran gov. it is just that we like the brits better than the iranians
[10:16] (Eeyore) Harsen I hope you and I get to share a nice big bomber together
[10:16] (gopp) Harsen the british
[10:16] (likwidtek) hey MissLaVey
[10:16] (Harsen) Eeyore, I'm straight
[10:16] (L0c0) blah
[10:16] (Demopubli) gopp Sorry if fasctual info can't back up your claims, I can, sorry
[10:16] (L0c0) lunch time
[10:16] (L0c0) laters
[10:16] (gopp) JupaSaur when did they lie
[10:16] (Demopubli) factual
[10:16] (Yaakov) JupaSaur: I missed it. What did the British lie about?
[10:16] (Eeyore) Harsen um.... so am I what does that have to do with the price of C4?
[10:16] (mongo`) herzen: who is more credible, the US government, or the Canadian government?
[10:16] (gopp) td [13:16] (Harsen) Who is more credible, the British Government or The Iranian Government?
[10:17] (Harsen) mongo`, thats not the question
[10:17] (Harsen) mongo`, and isnt' relevant
[10:17] (mongo`) herzen:P yes that is the question
[10:17] (mongo`) what is your answer?
[10:17] (JupaSaur) the brits shared bush's lies about iraq having wmd and being an imminent threat
[10:17] (Harsen) JupaSaur, I think there is some qualitative differences between the Iranian Government and the UK Government
[10:17] (gopp) where is this british lie
[10:17] (Eeyore) mongo` the US. Canada has all kinds of ways of subverting free speech and the press. in fact The US is almost dramatically more credable than Canada
[10:17] (gopp) JupaSaur that was not a lie
[10:17] (Harsen) JupaSaur, What with one being a reasonable parliamentary democracy and the other being an islamofascist theocratic state ruled by anti-semitic holocaust deniers.
[10:17] (f1re) MissLaVey: hey'
[10:17] (gopp) JupaSaur by you repeating this makes you a lier
[10:17] (mongo`) herzen: it demonstrates why your question is irrelvant
[10:17] (f1re) sup qt
[10:18] (gopp) mongo` that bull shit it is relvant
[10:18] (JupaSaur) gopp bah!
[10:18] (gopp) I agree herzen is revelvant
[10:18] (MissLaVey) hi
[10:18] (gopp) JupaSaur why do you keep repeating lies
[10:18] (f1re) they was talkin about u in pp4l
[10:18] (Harsen) alright I gotta run
[10:18] (mongo`) gopp do you suck up much?
[10:18] (gopp) dam femnist corrupt our men
[10:18] (f1re) and i couldnt resist
[10:18] (gopp) suck up
[10:18] (f1re) i needed to see u
[10:18] (MissLaVey) heh, imagine that
[10:18] (gopp) no I tend to agr ee
[10:18] (f1re) its been so long
[10:18] (JupaSaur) what i am saying is the truth, gopp. and if you are saying that is a lie it is you who is lying
[10:18] (gopp) i blame the feminist movement for all this weak men
[10:19] (MissLaVey) i've been on vacation
[10:19] (fordnut) they put a fucking hijab on this British woman???
[10:19] (gopp) JupaSaur but you have no proof I am lying
[10:19] (f1re) oh really
[10:19] (MissLaVey) mmhmm
[10:19] (JupaSaur) gopp show me the wmd
[10:19] (mongo`) well this is a rather big issue
[10:19] (gopp) JupaSaur I on the other hand have proof your saying incorrect stuff
[10:19] (MissLaVey) bf and i drove from MYC to key west
[10:19] (f1re) i think ramprat is jealous of some aussie guy u got
[10:19] (gee-wolf) misslavey: I heard you were in rehab
[10:19] (fordnut) http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070328/capt.lon12403281649.iran_britain_lon124.jpg?x=380&y=296&sig=o7PqGigZhPQkn4By1J1RWw--
[10:19] (gopp) JupaSaur we never lied about wmd
[10:19] (f1re) he always brings it up
[10:19] (fordnut) WTF is this
[10:19] (mongo`) the price of crude jumped $5/barrel this morning
[10:19] (gopp) MissLaVey how is rehab
[10:20] (Eeyore) JupaSaur ironically there are lots of recent articles by feminists saying nearly the same thing. my favorite one is by a 70s gender feminsit who actually had the gaul to say "why didnt you stop us?"
[10:20] (Aufk|aren) fordnut: That's the Iranians forcing her to wear a headscarf.
[10:20] (MissLaVey) gopp: i don't drink or do drugs, i've never been to rehab
[10:20] (fordnut) bloody fucking hell
[10:20] (MissLaVey) nd yes f1re, my bf moved here from australia
[10:20] (f1re) 19:19 -!- ramprat [pumptastic@60.56.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: °ShowDowN v12 PrO° since 1996: http://www.sci.fi/~showdown/]
[10:20] (gee-wolf) MissLavey went to the scientology rehab "narcanon"
[10:20] (f1re) he got scared when i said i was talking to u
[10:20] (f1re) he wants u
[10:20] (gee-wolf) you got addicted t prescription painkillers
[10:20] (Demopubli) GOPP Do you think the polls are correct about Bush's approval rating?
[10:20] (MissLaVey) heh, my bf nd i harassed scientologists on the trip
[10:20] (gopp) Demopubli not 100%
[10:20] (gee-wolf) and miht I say your drug free lifestyle is takin you places too
[10:20] (gopp) :)
[10:20] (likwidtek) MissLaVey sweet did you take pics?
[10:21] (f1re) hate scientology
[10:21] (Demopubli) gopp Why?
[10:21] (gopp) Demopubli polls can lie
[10:21] (Eeyore) MissLaVey try it with pentacostles sometime
[10:21] (MissLaVey) they had a table set up on NYC streets and he randomly started yelling at them
[10:21] (mongo`) gopp: republicans can lie too
[10:21] (MissLaVey) and he took a piss on the side of a scientology church in columbus
[10:21] (Eeyore) brb
[10:21] (mongo`) gopp: anyone can lie
[10:21] (Eeyore) nick Eeyore_AFK
[10:21] (gopp) MissLaVey I don't drink or do drug
[10:21] (fordnut) i hope this lights a fire under the the UK public's arse
[10:21] (Demopubli) gopp 33%-34% by two ,differerent sources seems to me to be close to accurate
[10:22] (gopp) mongo` but republican didn't lie this time yes they can lie but have they lied this timeNO
[10:22] (fordnut) the Brits can get down when they want to
[10:22] (mongo`) demo: it sounds rather high to me
[10:22] (Demopubli) gopp is this Liberal bias?
[10:22] (gopp) mongo` it more like democarts lied
[10:22] (mongo`) i thought it was closer to 30%
[10:22] (gopp) mongo` so democarts can't lie
[10:22] (MissLaVey) we didnt get pics of him harassing sientologists, but have tons of pics from the rest of the trip
[10:22] (mongo`) gopp: you can lie too
[10:22] (gopp) mongo` you make it sound like liberaldon
[10:22] (Demopubli) mongo should be much lower
[10:22] (likwidtek) MissLaVey's website is awesome
[10:22] (gopp) mongo` you make it sound like liberal don't lie
[10:22] (gopp) Demopubli where is that source from
[10:22] (gopp) how did they take the test
[10:22] (mongo`) gopp scroll up
[10:22] (Eeyore) likwidtek link please
[10:22] (gopp) and what test did they use
[10:23] (gopp) who was the population
[10:23] (Demopubli) FOXNEWS, See the questions for yourself
[10:23] (likwidtek) MissLaVey might get mad. I will let her link it
[10:23] (gopp) good
[10:23] (Eeyore) MissLaVey link please
[10:23] (mongo`) well foxnews always lies
[10:23] (gopp) I don't watch fox news
[10:23] (gopp) it could be true
[10:23] (gopp) who knows
[10:23] (MissLaVey) http://www.flickr.com/photos/teknorat/
[10:23] (ShadowWRK) lo all
[10:23] (gopp) how can I trust fox news
[10:23] (Eeyore) yes foxnews always lies if in fact it doesnt represent your particular world view.
[10:23] (mongo`) gopp watches al jazeera
[10:23] (MissLaVey) those are our vacation pics
[10:23] (Demopubli) GOPP Unless FOXNEWS is also part of the "liberal" conspiracy to keep conservatives down right?
[10:24] (gopp) no fox news is a bit more fair
[10:24] (gopp) if what it posted is a fox news poll
[10:24] (MissLaVey) any pictures containing me, him, or our friends are in a private album
[10:24] (mongo`) a bit?
[10:24] (gopp) then it can be half true
[10:24] (mongo`) is thyat as much as a tad?
[10:24] (mongo`) or a tiny bit?
[10:24] (gopp) fox can also lie
[10:24] (Demopubli) Gopp In what are they "more fair"?
[10:24] (likwidtek) that's not the website I have
[10:25] (Eeyore) MissLaVey great photos thank you. captures many US towns well. reminds me of York Beach maine whihc I particualry love
[10:25] (gopp) I don't trust any polls
[10:25] (gee-wolf) seems to methere is a bit much flag waving, screaming, and name calling on fox news to be taken seriously
[10:25] (gopp) Demopubli and polls means hit
[10:25] (gopp) Demopubli one day polls say they like hamburgers
[10:25] (gopp) next day polls say people liek hotdogs
[10:25] (gopp) I don't trust polls
[10:25] (MissLaVey) Eeyore: we pln on travelling more once we rebuild our funds
[10:25] (gee-wolf) I walways watch it at the gym and they got some guy calling names and using lots of phrases like "so-called" this or that
[10:25] (Eeyore) "Polls are for dogs to piss on" -John Diefenbaker PM of Canada
[10:25] (Demopubli) gopp Notthing can hide the fact that most people hate our current Pres. and his policies, FACT
[10:25] (MissLaVey) likwidtek: i hve several sites
[10:26] (gee-wolf) regardless of content when my news is full of that I tend to doubt
[10:26] (Eeyore) MissLaVey do chck out york beach maine and Portsmouth N.H.
[10:26] (gopp) Demopubli I never saw a poll that made republican look good
[10:26] (gopp) the only poll that acounts is at the voting table Demopubli
[10:26] (gopp) and bush won both of them
[10:26] (gopp) acutally he won 4 times
[10:26] (mongo`) gopp: the november elections showed the voters did not like very many republicans
[10:26] (Demopubli) Well lunch is over, Take care!
[10:26] (gopp) twicei n texas
[10:26] (gopp) and twice as president
[10:26] (likwidtek) MissLaVey this one is my favorite. http://www.misslavey.com/ialwayswin/
[10:27] (gopp) mongo` does bush = congress mongo`
[10:27] (gopp) does it
[10:27] (gopp) no
[10:27] (gopp) your wrong
[10:27] (mongo`) gopp: or you don't trust elections eigher?
[10:27] (gopp) Bush != congress
[10:27] (gopp) I do trust electon
[10:27] (mongo`) i didn't say bush
[10:27] (MissLaVey) Eeyore: i'll consider it, we avoided new englnd this trip simply because it was out of the way
[10:27] (gopp) and I didn'teven like congress mself
[10:27] (gopp) mongo` congress was bad
[10:27] (mongo`) i said republicans
[10:27] (mongo`) that includes governors
[10:27] (mongo`) lt governors
[10:27] (gopp) so most republican didn't vote for the liberal republican congress
[10:27] (gopp) yes
[10:27] (mongo`) aorneys general
[10:27] (gopp) not even liberal govenors
[10:27] (mongo`) comptrollers
[10:27] (gopp) most republican
[10:27] (gopp) didn't vote
[10:28] (gopp) for mostof the people elected
[10:28] (td) ?
[10:28] (gopp) err for most of the moderate republican running
[10:28] (gopp) mosto f the democarts who won conggress
[10:28] (gopp) where consertive
[10:28] (gopp) :)
[10:28] * gee-wolf is now known as MuguMitch
[10:28] (Eeyore) ok Ill ramble a bit. what year was it, The brits demanded that the king of Zanzibar end his trading of slaves. He refused. Thebrits sent a gun boat up a river near his palace and shelled it till he complied. THIS dear people is why the British are BETTER than many nations if not most on earth when it comes to values and methods.
[10:28] (gopp) that the fact
[10:28] (Eeyore) cultural and moral relativism means the END of civilisation
[10:28] (gopp) most democartswho got elected where consertive
[10:28] (gopp) most notall
[10:28] (gopp) but most did
[10:28] (gopp) :)
[10:28] (gopp) look at conticute
[10:29] (mongo`) doesn't matter who voted, the election results showed that more democrats were elected than republicans
[10:29] (MissLaVey) likwidtek: lots of people dig it
[10:29] (likwidtek) hey why did you take it down MissLaVey ?
[10:29] (gopp) they elected a indepdent
[10:29] (gopp) who used to be a democart
[10:29] (gopp) but was in favour of the war
[10:29] (gopp) they didn't vote for the antiwardemocart
[10:29] (gopp) :)
[10:29] (mongo`) if the republicans didn't vote, they might have had their reaqsons
[10:29] (gopp) so no it was not about antiwar
[10:29] (gopp) pollslied
[10:29] (gopp) it was more on ethics issues
[10:29] (mongo`) like hey were disgusted with the republican candidates
[10:29] (gopp) the gang of 14 and thier ethic problems
[10:29] (mongo`) who knows?
[10:29] (gopp) mongo` yes
[10:29] (MissLaVey) likwidtek: you can try to guess the new dir if you'd like
[10:29] (MissLaVey) heh
[10:29] (gopp) republican don't just speak they act
[10:29] (gopp) and they acted out
[10:30] (gopp) against republican who didn't act very consertive
[10:30] (gopp) in thier mind
[10:30] (mongo`) right
[10:30] (gopp) so it was not antiwar
[10:30] (gopp) that bullshit poll
[10:30] (mongo`) and in 08 they wll act again
[10:30] (gopp) the liberalmedia lied
[10:30] (Eeyore) gopp same with dems. The only difrence between these 2 parties is the illusion of motives
[10:30] (gopp) mongo` I don't think so
[10:30] (gopp) mitt rommey
[10:30] (gopp) is very consertive
[10:30] (mongo`) and stay home and let a democrat be elected president
[10:30] (gopp) mitt rommey is very socialconsertive and fiscal consertive
[10:30] (mongo`) and i am sure you will have an excuse
[10:30] (gopp) he has a better chance then hillary
[10:30] (gopp) no excuse
[10:30] (gopp) reason
[10:30] (gopp) I gave you two
[10:31] (gopp) fiscal consertive and socialconsertive
[10:31] (gopp) that the both bases
[10:31] (mongo`) keep whining
[10:31] (gopp) mitt rommoney
[10:31] (gopp) not whining
[10:31] (gopp) when did I whine
[10:31] (gopp) I gave reason why
[10:31] (gopp) reason not excuses
[10:31] (gopp) :)
[10:31] (gopp) yes I whine when my party is not doing what my party should do
[10:31] (USmotto) Republicans in DC are all talk and no action on border control
[10:31] (gopp) :)
[10:31] (gopp) yes I am un happy
[10:31] (td) gopp: are you for real?
[10:31] (gopp) USmotto that another issue
[10:31] (mongo`) heh
[10:31] (mongo`) gopp is strange
[10:31] (gopp) I want a social consertive fiscalconsertive republican party
[10:31] (gopp) :)
[10:31] (USmotto) Republicans in DC are all talk and no action on abortion
[10:32] (likwidtek) MissLaVey k I'll look. brb
[10:32] (gopp) I don't want this moderate liberal republicans
[10:32] (gopp) who are corrupt
[10:32] (gopp) that why they lost
[10:32] (gopp) it not a whine it fact of life
[10:32] (mongo`) why was rummy fired?
[10:32] (mongo`) what was bush's statement?
[10:32] (gopp) becuase he wanted to step down
[10:32] (mongo`) nope
[10:32] (bill-) gopp: fiscal conservativism implies also reducing military expenditures.. are you in favor of that?
[10:33] (gopp) bill- well not alway
[10:33] (mongo`) bush made a statement when he announced rummy's "resignation"
[10:33] (mongo`) you forgot it?
[10:33] (bill-) well, how not?
[10:33] (gopp) fiscal consertive mean having small goverment
[10:33] (gopp) notno goverment
[10:33] (gopp) bill- goverment only need to be for security
[10:33] (bill-) right, and since the military and its use has grown..
[10:33] (gopp) e.g. the milltary
[10:33] (gopp) you cut the pork
[10:33] (gopp) in social spending
[10:33] (gopp) and you spend on the milltary
[10:33] (gopp) a govermetn with no strong milltary
[10:34] (bill-) well, not really, but even assuming all other thing stayed roughly equivalent to now, would you favor an across the board set of cuts, including of the military?
[10:34] (gopp) makes a country not worth shit
[10:34] (gopp) yes really
[10:34] (mongo`) gopp is the only guy in he world who admires batista
[10:34] (Eeyore) social spending often does more harm to its own agenda (the overt one at least) than good
[10:34] (gopp) you need a strong army to have a strong country
[10:34] (mongo`) if that gives you an idea
[10:34] (gopp) mongo` who said I am the only guy
[10:34] (bill-) ok, but is there such a thing as spending too much on the military if the primary consideration is fiscal conservativism?
[10:34] (mongo`) gopp i have nop idea
[10:34] (mongo`) who said it?
[10:34] (gopp) You need 10 basita to achive what one fidel castro has done mongo`
[10:34] (gopp) 10
[10:34] (mongo`) 10?
[10:34] (gopp) yes
[10:34] (mongo`) exactly 10?
[10:35] (bill-) yes, not 9.5
[10:35] (mongo`) not 11?
[10:35] (gopp) you are going to argue that baista was ) then fidel as a dicator
[10:35] (gopp) which is flase
[10:35] (gopp) false
[10:35] (Eeyore) bill- I forget whihc Roman it was, but a formula was devised by one Roman emporor on what % needed to be spent on defence. eitehr less OR more meant faulure of the state so yes
[10:35] (gopp) if you look at the cuban ecomony during his reign
[10:35] (gopp) it was surpising the usa
[10:35] (bill-) Eeyore: well, ok, but Rome isn't the US
[10:35] (gopp) and most cuban owned something property
[10:35] (gopp) some didn't
[10:36] (gopp) but that surival of the fittest
[10:36] (gopp) many cubans owned farmrs
[10:36] (gopp) or bussiness
[10:36] (gopp) helped in exproting sugar
[10:36] (gopp) tabacoo and other fruits
[10:36] (Eeyore) bill- no it isnt but the formula applies to civilisaion as it would how much you spend on an alarm and locks for a home. its a % fo the worth of the home. same idea
[10:36] (gopp) bill- stopranting
[10:36] (gopp) ranting
[10:37] (likwidtek) MissLaVey
[10:37] (MissLaVey) ?
[10:37] (likwidtek) I found it!
[10:37] (likwidtek) What do I win?
[10:37] (MissLaVey) congrats
[10:37] (likwidtek) http://orbit.sh3lls.net/~likwid/misslavey/noIwin/
[10:37] (bill-) I'm ranting because I said that the US isn't Rome?
[10:38] (bill-) right, whatever you say.
[10:38] (USmotto) I wouldn't say so
[10:38] (_Forbin) Nero played the fiddle while Rome burned
[10:38] (_Forbin) :)\
[10:38] (bill-) "Military expenditure was by far the largest item in the imperial budget, and there were no massive departments of state ... whose spending could be cut when necessary in order to protect "Defence"; nor did the credit mechanisms exist in Antiquity that would have allowed the empire to borrow substantial sums of money in an emergency. Military capability relied on immediate access to taxable wealth."
[10:38] (bill-) yeah, I wouldn't either.
[10:38] (BillFrugg) just to clarify, I am not bill- ;)
[10:38] (bill-) correct
[10:39] (bill-) nor are you ranting either.
[10:39] (Eeyore) _Forbin i wonder if he was any good. like it would be worth it if he was Stephan Grapelli or something
[10:40] (USmotto) gopp, what's your tactic, saying bill was ranting?
[10:40] (_Forbin) who was that other guy...modern
[10:40] (_Forbin) isaac stern?
[10:40] (_Forbin) hmm
[10:40] (bill-) the violinist?
[10:40] (_Forbin) is that his name
[10:40] (Eeyore) Isaac stern, Yitzhak Pearlman, boring
[10:40] (bill-) no, brilliant.
[10:40] (Eeyore) now grappeli your talkin fiddle!
[10:40] (_Forbin) Ill tell you who the dopest violinist is....my sister
[10:40] (L0c0) hmm
[10:40] (_Forbin) Im serious
[10:40] (bill-) Stephan Grappelli's also good. Different style.
[10:41] (_Forbin) all county....all state.....she can saw
[10:41] (_Forbin) werd
[10:41] (bill-) or Stefan, whatever
[10:42] (Lupine) Man, I hate websites that you can't set to remember login infor.
[10:42] (likwidtek) MissLaVey you there?
[10:42] (MissLaVey) mmhmm
[10:43] (BillFrugg) bbl
[10:43] * BillFrugg is away: AFK
[10:43] (USmotto) Shock and Awe. Completely destroy a nation as a warning to others what will happen to them if they don't bow to globalism. I'd call it terrorism
[10:43] (Eeyore) MissLaVey excellent stuff thanks :*)
[10:43] (MissLaVey) no prob
[10:43] (Eeyore) USmotto wow thats some serious spin doctoring you got going there
[10:43] (Lupine) bah "shock and awe" was pitiful
[10:43] (bill-) ok, that's out of nowhere.
[10:43] (Yaakov) Lupine: http://www.marines.mil/marinelink/image1.nsf/ae82f18a8e1b160b852568ba007e7e5e/b2cecfff7aa79b5685256fe600595584/$FILE/20050417-M-0502A-005.jpg
[10:43] (Lupine) not even worthy of single bomber wave of WWII
[10:44] (Yaakov) I want one.
[10:44] (bill-) yeah, it wasn't really that shocking nor particularly awe-inspiring
[10:44] (bill-) brb
[10:44] (Eeyore) 1/2 measures are a bad idea in war
[10:45] (Lupine) Yaakov: havn't seen that one before.. i swear, they come out with a new ariel drone every month
[10:45] (USmotto) Shock and Awe. Baghdad was taken in what, a couple of days? Electric plants, water purification plants targeted.
[10:45] * Eeyore is a commted Django fan and doesnt believe classical is even music at this point in history
[10:45] (Yaakov) Lupine: The neat thing about that one is that it is only 40 pounds and it is self recovering.
[10:45] (Lupine) USmotto: in desert storm yes. not in the iraqi invasion.
[10:45] (fonebone) heh.. that guy that blasted that teenager that was sleeping with his wife is a hero!
[10:45] (fonebone) fucking teenagers
[10:45] (Yaakov) It flies home and grabs a rope.
[10:46] (Eeyore) USmotto needs to study some history and basic game theory
[10:46] (Lupine) a genuine rope a dope
[10:46] (USmotto) Didn't Rumsfeld call it shock and awe? What, was he wrong?
[10:46] (fonebone) does anyone else agree that we give way too much leeway to 13-17 year olds in america?
[10:46] (Yaakov) It would be great for local surveillance on your neighborhood :)
[10:47] (fonebone) they can basically commit just about any minor crime they want with no reprucussions and even some major crimes
[10:47] (Eeyore) USmotto not the point. Bagdad was taken surgically and more compasionatly than any war in history previous to it. the reward by assholes like you? nothing but scathing attacks for ridding the Irqui people of one of the worst and most cruel tyrants in history
[10:47] (Eeyore) fonebone I think the voting age shod be changed to 40
[10:48] (fonebone) well.. i disagree with that...
[10:48] (fonebone) haha
[10:48] (Eeyore) :*)
[10:48] (fonebone) old people already have too much power in america
[10:48] (gopp) wtf does setgid: Invalid argument
[10:48] (gopp) oh
[10:48] (gopp) set group id
[10:48] (fonebone) haha
[10:48] (Eeyore) fonebone no old people have done more work than young people and understand the stakes thats all. If your lucky, you will understand
[10:48] (fonebone) the fact that you never have to retest for drivers liscences is proof of that eyeore
[10:49] (FreeTrad3) Actually they showed a Command COntrol Center for the military nestled within 4 skyscrapers, Not only did they take out the building which was right next to 3 others, the lights stayed on in the other 3 buildings..
[10:49] (likwidtek) MissLaVey you have any more pics to share?
[10:49] (FreeTrad3) Very Surgical.
[10:49] (fonebone) oh whatever... old people are the ones that are basically playing the "we dont care about younger generations we are getting all our ss and the rest of you can go to hell" game
[10:49] (fonebone) hehe
[10:49] (gopp) that has more to do wi th physical then knowledge fonebone
[10:49] (FreeTrad3) Definately the most compassionate bombing in Military History.
[10:49] (FreeTrad3) IN any full fledged war
[10:49] (MissLaVey) nah, not really
[10:49] (Eeyore) fonebone I have been on a crusade to have people re tested for drivers licences in Canada for a long time. my quit file on IRC used to read "Parkinsons hasnt stopped my mother from driving so why should her cataracts?"
[10:49] (fonebone) every age needs to have representation of the other generations will run over them
[10:50] (fonebone) or even
[10:50] (USmotto) Eeyore, I'm sure you get a rush from calling people asshole as you hide behind your screen, because haven't the guts to say it to anyones face ever, but you should try to refrain from such juvenile rhetoric
[10:50] (Lupine) SAN FRANCISCO, California (Reuters) -- San Francisco's Board of Supervisors voted Tuesday to become the first U.S. city to ban plastic bags
[10:50] (draugluin) 2 words. Project Babylon. Saddam WAS very dangerous. But the no fly zones put in after 1991 basically killed his power.
[10:50] (FreeTrad3) This was relevant to yesterdays discussion of Canadas Navy
[10:50] (FreeTrad3) Canada's defence minister said Ottawa is giving the navy more money so it can go ahead with a patrol off the East Coast after concerns about funding had postponed the voyage.
[10:50] (FreeTrad3) Earlier, the navy had cancelled a scheduled patrol by HMCS Halifax because it said it didn't have the money to send the ship to sea.
[10:50] (Eeyore) fonebone no not at all. its about what you know. look at univesity students today. They dont KNOW anything except all systems of thought and all people are equal. its the new orthodoxy. do you want them having equal power with those who espouse and fight for equal rights for women? freedom and so on?
[10:51] (fonebone) most old people i know dont know a whole lot more eeyore.. the general populace is not very self educated at any age range
[10:51] (FreeTrad3) Man he had to fight for the money..
[10:51] (fonebone) they might have more experience but that doesnt mean they know more about current events by any means
[10:51] (Eeyore) USmotto ok Illtake that as a fair attack. I retract the asshole part it was uncalled for. I appologise. i so often do argue with relativists and anti western types I went off before I should have.
[10:51] (Eeyore) and fonebone this is also true
[10:51] (fonebone) and im just fine with "all people are equal"
[10:52] (fonebone) ;)
[10:52] (FreeTrad3) No the No Fly Zones contained his ability to commit genocide but for how long could we maintain that no fly zone ? Till he died ?
[10:52] (Yaakov) Lupine: A tank escort isn't helpful against a UAV: http://media.primezone.com/cache/189/file/3821.mpg
[10:52] (Yaakov) (Big video..._
[10:52] (Yaakov) )
[10:52] (Eeyore) fonebone Im ok with all people are equal before the law, but thats where it ends.
[10:52] (likwidtek) MissLaVey who's finger is that?
[10:52] (USmotto) Eeyore, apology accepted. ty
[10:52] (PickleWrk) FreeTrade: Especially since the left at the time was maintaining that the no-fly zones and sanctions were THEMSELVES an act of genocide. To the reacctionary left America couldn't win with Iraq.
[10:52] (fonebone) i dont believe anyone is worht more than me eeyore and i never will
[10:52] (thx1138^) did those a-10 pilots that bombed the british tank get prosecuted??
[10:53] (PickleWrk) Even if America had withdrawn the left would be blaming America for the ensuing violence and death.
[10:53] (panini) more evidence that Bush is a pussy: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070328/ap_on_go_pr_wh/kerry_swift_boat
[10:53] (fonebone) if i met bill gates id treat him repectfully like anyone else.. but if he was an ass to me id return his attitude in kind
[10:53] (thx1138^) Pickle isnt that their plan? *smirk*
[10:53] (FreeTrad3) I believe one good reason for going to war was that we had a true national emergency for the military and we had assets locked up in Iraq which we needed to free and put an end to this no fly zone to prevent him from committing genocide.. That alone was good enough reason to say: HEy lets be done with this bullshit game playing with Saddam, Lets end it now, we no longer have time or resources to play games
[10:53] (fonebone) same with the pres
[10:53] (fonebone) same with anyone
[10:53] (Eeyore) fonebone yes yes but at what level of abstracton? Im CERTAIN some people are worth more than you at some things and your worth more than otehrs in some things
[10:53] * delamer is now known as DeLimmer
[10:53] (PickleWrk) FreeTrade: Remember all the times that little australian prick, roygbiv, was in here accusing America of murdering millions of Iraqi children via the sanctions?
[10:53] (FreeTrad3) if he wont come clean and live in the international community as a responsible nation lets end his rule and replace it
[10:53] (fonebone) value as a human being... not monetary value or potential power
[10:54] (likwidtek) MissLaVey you there?
[10:54] (PickleWrk) He'd still be doing it today had we not taken Saddam out. Bush would still be evil, America would still suck.
[10:54] (USmotto) Of course Hussein was a CIA-backed operative in 1959, I believe it was, hired to assassinate the then current leader of Iraq
[10:54] (fonebone) well.. roy's argument was fundamentally flawed in that the sanctions were UN backed which meant his country was just as much to blame as the US
[10:54] (gopp) even if bush never went to iraq the liberal would still hate bush
[10:55] (gopp) fonebone we are to blame
[10:55] (gopp) wtf
[10:55] (FreeTrad3) Pickle Yeah I remember something like that, I dont know if he said murder, but he said we implied we had slaughtered millions or 100s of 1000s of innocents which was bullshit.
[10:55] (PickleWrk) There's no getting out of that conclusion to the reactionary left. All decisions, all arguments, all actions America can take lead to the same conclusion: the west is evil, imperialistic, and must be defeated for world peace and happiness to flourish.
[10:55] (fonebone) i was saying in reference to what freetrade said about royg gopp
[10:55] (FreeTrad3) Hussein was never a CIA backed operative.
[10:55] (FreeTrad3) Neither was USama.
[10:55] (fonebone) if there was blame to be put on the sanctions then australia was just as accountable was my point
[10:55] (pilgrim`) before 9-11 there was a strong "Hate Bush" faction
[10:55] (USmotto) In 1956, through Operation Ajax, the CIA and MI6 engineered the ousting of the democratically-elected leader of Iran, Mossadeq
[10:55] (FreeTrad3) Every time the fucking US goes to war the enemy is said to have been a US CIA backed operative.
[10:56] (FreeTrad3) Thats the biggest line of horseshit there is.
[10:56] (pilgrim`) USMotto uh...not exactly
[10:56] (draugluin) Osama wasnt really CIA sponsored, the mujahideen were.
[10:56] (FreeTrad3) The only case which may be true is with Noriega but his involvement with CIA was before he went rogue, or in other words, he started doign evil shit.
[10:56] (USmotto) The US installed the murderous Shah Pahlavi, trained his torturing secret police SAVAK
[10:56] (FreeTrad3) NO we didnt install him. We supported him.
[10:56] (MissLaVey) i'm here
[10:56] (draugluin) Osama was just the commander of the mujahideen.
[10:56] (FreeTrad3) And we supported him in the attempted overthrow of him,
[10:57] (Eeyore) FreeTrad3 its worse than that. context is alwyas removed. yes Bin LAden and Taliban where partially created by the CIA and trained but it was to fight the russians. if it was happening agian today knowing what we know now, its STILL the best course of action
[10:57] (FreeTrad3) USmotto Have you ever studied Any History.
[10:57] (PickleWrk) The only problem with the Shah is that more assholes weren't killed by him.
[10:57] (thx1138^) draugluin point being, what we sponsored was grassroots resistance to soviet expansion, not al quaeda.
[10:57] (FreeTrad3) Who ruled Iran before the Shah some decades before ?
[10:57] (Eeyore) and Iran was doing very well under the Shaw
[10:57] (USmotto) The people hated the Shah and his murderous ways, overthrew him, and put in the nutcase Khomenei
[10:57] (PickleWrk) Like, for example, every single Ayatollah who spoke out against him.
[10:57] (L0c0) Eeyore: yup, its always easier to let soembody else fight wars for you.... jut ask iran
[10:57] (pilgrim`) USMotto for a (granted slanted) view that gives the flavor of that era, go to archive.org/the moving pictures archive/preilinger collection and find the IRAN vidoe there from 1956
[10:57] (Eeyore) USmotto no it was Khomeni and a few thugs who did it. not the people
[10:57] (USmotto) The US backed Hussein to cvounter the Iranian Revolution
[10:58] (FreeTrad3) The Shah was unquestionably more liberal than the existing government, again I mean liberal in the adjective sense not the noun which is misapplied continuously.
[10:58] (Eeyore) L0c0 no its easier to help a people fight for their own freedom than it is to start a global war between 2 nuclear superpowers. think agian
[10:58] (thx1138^) pilgrim` lets be completely clear: the Iranian Islamic Revolution saw Mossadeq as much of an enemy as the Shah.
[10:58] (PickleWrk) The Shah was for the westernization of Iran, which, had it succeeded would mean that the country might be a mini-superpower by now.
[10:58] (PickleWrk) Instead of an international pariah.
[10:58] (pilgrim`) thx yes. Qum is the home fo loons and has been for a millenium
[10:59] (USmotto) The Shah was a murderous, torturing US lackey
[10:59] (fonebone) but i thought we wanted westernization in the area pickle :P
[10:59] (fonebone) hehe
[10:59] (pilgrim`) I am WELL aware of the theology of the main sects of SHi'a
[10:59] (likwidtek) MissLaVey oh ok. I thought I was lagged.
[10:59] (likwidtek) so who's finger is that?
[10:59] (Eeyore) USmotto no actually he wasnt. now Sadamn, there was a murderous pornographic in proportion soviet lackey
[10:59] (PickleWrk) Good. Radical Islamists should be tortured and murdered.
[10:59] (MissLaVey) nobody you know
[10:59] (USmotto) Hussein was a murderous nut, no doubt
[10:59] (likwidtek) oh :/
[11:00] (fonebone) so we should be exactly like them pickle?
[11:00] (thx1138^) pilgrim` as leftists try to somehow tie operation ajax directly into the current state of Iran's government, I feel the need to draw that distinction.
[11:00] (likwidtek) you got a big clit is it sensative?
[11:00] (pilgrim`) Shah Riza Phalavi was a stern ruler with a very powerful secret police arm. but, he was no worse then any other Shah in the history of Persia and far better then some
[11:00] (FreeTrad3) The Shah started in 1925 without US aid. His son took ober in 1941
[11:00] (fonebone) well show you for having horrible practices... well do the exact same thing.. but since you did it first its ok for us
[11:00] (PickleWrk) fonebone: No, we shouldn't. We should be for western civilization as opposed to Islamist barbarism.
[11:00] (fonebone) heh
[11:01] (fonebone) yes.. and western civilization gave up on torture a long time ago
[11:01] (PickleWrk) And if that means killing some stone-agers, that doesn't make us like them.
[11:01] (FreeTrad3) Various moves against religious authority; wearing of veil banned in 1935
[11:01] (FreeTrad3) Shah's troops massacre hundreds of protestors in Imam Reza Shrine in Mashhad 1935
[11:01] (FreeTrad3) Britain and Russia depose Reza; install weak, playboy son as new Shah 1941
[11:01] (pilgrim`) had the Shah not promoted western education and a liberal political structure including a relativly free press; the revolution would have fallen dead
[11:02] (fonebone) you dont kill people before they act for their ideology
[11:02] (USmotto) Yeah, Shah Pashlavis' old man
[11:02] (TheTailor) PickleWrk, why waste time torturing Islamic fundies? Just kill them and be done with it.
[11:02] (PickleWrk) It means that, like every civilization on earth, we've had to defend it by dealing with the barbarians using the only language they understand--which is why they're barbarians.
[11:02] (Eeyore) if those protesters where fundie nut mar muslim radicals then yeay!
[11:02] (fonebone) even in america you can kill someone that has thought about killing someone
[11:02] (TheTailor) Like Putin says " Find them, and kill them.".
[11:02] (FreeTrad3) Khomeini's exile moved to Paris; gains access to international press 1978
[11:02] (FreeTrad3) Shah flees Jan 16; Khomeini arrives Feb. 1; Islamic Revolution begins
[11:02] (likwidtek) MissLaVey ?
[11:02] (FreeTrad3) THe key in those sentences is kHomeini Gains access to INternational press.
[11:03] (panini) the golden age of iran was during the Shah
[11:03] (Eeyore) likwidtek with any luck she is making new movies
[11:03] (Eeyore) panini yep
[11:03] (pilgrim`) I woudl STRONGLY suggest a read of Sir Percival Sykes: "A history of Persia" 2 vol, Oxford Press. it is a well written and quite compleat discussion of Iran from the earliest battles with Rome till the early 20th century
[11:03] (likwidtek) INORITE
[11:03] (FreeTrad3) The left helped install a religious dictatorship as brutal ( More Brutal than the Shahs)
[11:03] (PickleWrk) Civilized people answer to reason and debate. Barbarians answer to brute violence. The difference between civilization and barbarism is not that we never resort to the latter, but that we are capable of discerning the difference and applying the two things where it's approrpriate.
[11:03] (Eeyore) panini although arguably persia's real golden age was before Islamic precepts where enforced. when it had its own civlisation
[11:03] (fonebone) yeah.. cause putins brand of justice is what we should strive for.. using putin as a reference is pretty retarded
[11:03] (PickleWrk) Which is to say: deal with civilized people diplomatically, and deal with barbarians by killing them all.
[11:03] (Yaakov) FreeTrad3: Heh: Look at this: http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/2002_08_04_woc.php
[11:04] (PickleWrk) The Iranian government is currently controlled by barbarians.
[11:04] (FreeTrad3) During the revolutions in the 70s, and protests when the shah got pretty vicious, The USA and Jordan for example were working to get the Shah human rights abuses stopped..
[11:04] (pilgrim`) also standard works on Sufism, Shi'a moslem sectarianism, standard Islamic histories and travlers tales would be of benifit. See the works of Idres Shah for example -Afghan Oxfordian and Islamic scholar
[11:04] (FreeTrad3) See Book: FOrget name but only book that I am aware of by "Queen Noor" of Jordan.
[11:04] (USmotto) Government is a big screw-up, it's almost inherent. We, (conservatives), want them to have as little possible influence over us as possible, because we understand government is inept. But we think they should be given the money and the force to dictate to the world. See anything wrong with that?
[11:05] (FreeTrad3) She was working in Iran when she met her husband.
[11:05] (fonebone) heh... current republicans definatly arent conservatives then
[11:05] (FreeTrad3) The king of Jordon is a very cool guy (Deceased king)
[11:05] (fonebone) haha
[11:05] (PickleWrk) The Iranian government has never and will never responded to talking and diplomacy, because they are barbarians.
[11:05] (Lupine) BOZEMAN, Montana — Montana residents are used to digging themselves out after heavy snowstorms, but residents of one neighborhood had to put a snowplow to different use: clearing mounds of tumbleweed from their driveways.
[11:05] (Yaakov) Lupine: http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/2002_08_04_woc.php
[11:06] (pilgrim`) the Shah fell for one simple reasont hat can be sumed up in 2 words that equate to alack of national honor, a lack of will and a geenral disapointment with what America has long stodd for. two simple words:
[11:06] (Yaakov) Lupine: Did you see that video I pointed you to?
[11:06] (pilgrim`) Jimmy Carter
[11:06] (likwidtek) I think MissLaVey is busy on cam.
[11:06] (_3Josephs) ewww
[11:06] (FreeTrad3) The Shah was flawed without a question. but during the cold war and sometimes in life you have to make ugly choices.
[11:06] (FreeTrad3) The better of evils.
[11:06] (Eeyore) likwidtek lets hope
[11:07] (Eeyore) brb
[11:07] (FreeTrad3) And had we been able to stop the Shah from his human rights abuses it could of been a much better nation.
[11:07] (pilgrim`) Carter helped us loose Iran, Loose Africa, loose the Panama Canal, Loose Afghanistan. Carter is and will remain remembered in history by the term: "Looser"
[11:07] (MissLaVey) no, i'm busy talking to bf
[11:07] (FreeTrad3) I would like to see a secular revolutiojn and they rename the country back to Persia.
[11:07] (pilgrim`) Free not likely but, possible
[11:07] (thx1138^) USmotto inherent government incompetence in no way alleviates the need for a powerful military and strong foreign policy.
[11:08] (FreeTrad3) Yeah I realize its not likely anytime soon.
[11:08] (likwidtek) MissLaVey was it your boyfriends finger in the movie?
[11:08] (MissLaVey) no
[11:08] (MissLaVey) thats way old stuff
[11:08] (thx1138^) pilgrim` you mean 'loser'
[11:08] (likwidtek) Thats messed up. Does he know?
[11:08] (MissLaVey) yes, he knows
[11:08] (FreeTrad3) ANother thing I think the Israelis Should accept the Saudi Peace plan except for he right of return, but I would give the muslims east jerusalem. This would make the Palestinian terrorists the enemies of the Arab league.
[11:09] (likwidtek) wow you guys are swingers. That's cool
[11:09] (MissLaVey) he doesnt give a shit that i was with someone else 4 years ago
[11:09] (USmotto) thx1138^, not an interventionist policy, because politicians are corrupt and inept, and I think that has to be one of the most obvious things in the world today
[11:09] (likwidtek) so SRSLY you got a big clit is it sensative?
[11:09] (MissLaVey) no, not swingers.
[11:09] (MissLaVey) we didnt know eachother 4 years ago
[11:09] (USmotto) FreeTrad3, why not the right of return?
[11:09] (thx1138^) USmotto if you don't think 9/11 isn't proof enough of the need for interventionist policies, I really can't help you.
[11:10] (FreeTrad3) Because people who will kill each other cant live together.
[11:10] (FreeTrad3) Logically
[11:10] (likwidtek) MissLaVey I see. All cleared up. But RLY... you got a huge clit. How sensative is it?
[11:10] (Yaakov) FreeTrad3: Would you please ban that loser?
[11:10] (FreeTrad3) Which one ?
[11:11] (Yaakov) likwidtek
[11:11] (likwidtek) what?
[11:11] (FreeTrad3) I see now
[11:11] (Yaakov) Scroll up 3 lines or so.
[11:11] (pilgrim`) The Shia shahadah (declaration of faith) states:
[11:11] (pilgrim`) "There is no god but Alláh, Muhammad is the Messenger of Alláh, Alí is the Friend of Alláh. The Successor of the Messenger of Alláh And his first Caliph." note everythign after the 1st Allah. THAT Is the difference tween Shi'a and Sunni
[11:11] (Yaakov) OK.
[11:11] -FreeTrad3:#politics- likwidtek has been Shitlisted Porn Ads!
[11:11] (likwidtek) sorry I will clean it up
[11:11] (FreeTrad3) Porn Spammer
[11:11] (USmotto) thx1138^, and I think our foreign interventionism makes enemies, and rightfully so. Our moron politicians support oppressive regimes, especially in the region in discussion, and what do you want the people of those nations to think about the US?
[11:11] (FreeTrad3) I need to change delete the ads
[11:11] (FreeTrad3) it used to be porn advertisers who would hit the channel.
[11:11] (FreeTrad3) Nut Iuse it for all perverts now.
[11:12] (FreeTrad3) Well Perversionw hich goes beyond and above the normal
[11:12] (pilgrim`) Free chnage it to say: "L@@K! Pink Ponies!"
[11:12] (FreeTrad3) Sexual harrassment and junior high type use of "dirty words"
[11:12] (thx1138^) USmotto what's the alternative? allow terror sponsoring regimes to thrive and continue to expand infrastructures which allow for increasingly deadly attacks on our soil?
[11:12] (FreeTrad3) haha
[11:12] (FreeTrad3) pink ponies.
[11:13] (FreeTrad3) Yaak thanks as always for that alert, I missed him I am multitasking sort of..
[11:13] (FreeTrad3) Just installed a new proggie
[11:13] (Yaakov) Sure, no problem.
[11:13] (thx1138^) wait i'm still wondering where i can get video of MissLaVey's clit...
[11:13] (FreeTrad3) Rather, an update
[11:13] (thx1138^) she didn't seem to deny it
[11:13] (FreeTrad3) THX Knock it off, Someone just got banned for that
[11:14] (thx1138^) alriiiiiiiiight. *hands in pockets*
[11:14] * thx1138^ kicks a rock
[11:14] (Lupine) pilgrim` it is times like these in the middle east, that I feel the need to defer to the Black Book of the Admiralty of 1385
[11:14] (FreeTrad3) And if she is offering porn or a version of porn on this channel, that would be dealt with too.
[11:14] (FreeTrad3) This is the wrong forum for that.
[11:14] (Lupine) "Item, qe nul soit si hardy de crier havok sur peine davoir la test coupe."
[11:15] (Lupine) FreeTrad3: unless it involves twobar.. then its okay
[11:15] (FreeTrad3) heh
[11:15] (USmotto) thx1138^, through our own governments failure to make policy that defends the US, it is the government itself that allows our enemies to gain access to our soil. Also, it is my belief that terrorism is borne out of political oppression, and this nations' breaking-off of ssupport of oppressive regimes will have the effect of the US no longer being a valid target for those looking for freedom of expression
[11:16] (FreeTrad3) USmotto is PAt Buchanan ;) He just wont admit it ;)
[11:16] (USmotto) lol
[11:17] (USmotto) I like Buchanan
[11:17] (FreeTrad3) I cant stand the nativist
[11:17] (USmotto) But he could argue these points much better than I
[11:18] (USmotto) He's all about America
[11:18] (FreeTrad3) Nativist is one word shy of Bigot.
[11:18] (USmotto) I understand
[11:19] (USmotto) But he's not a bigot
[11:19] * pilgrim` is a bigot, but VERY selective
[11:19] (FreeTrad3) Some say he is a bigot.. whether he is or not, is a question of his interior motivations and thinking which I cant judge because he has plenty of jewish and black and other friends, close freinds.. So I think its almost a disconnect in his brain.
[11:19] (USmotto) He's about America, and Americans. And that'sd not a race
[11:19] (pilgrim`) I draw the line at the one most disgusting group on earth
[11:20] (td) So, parading these British marines on tv eating and looking like they are in great shape, where is the outrage?
[11:20] (FreeTrad3) I think he is right on the border.
[11:20] (pilgrim`) Pigmy Eskimo Lesbian Dwarves with Latvian Surnames
[11:20] (td) nobody seems all that upset
[11:20] (USmotto) No way
[11:20] (td) not even the British
[11:20] (FreeTrad3) I know he fears others and hence is a xenophobe.
[11:20] (FreeTrad3) He sees American culture ironically as that of the founders. Not just their ideas. THier european Christian (Many of them were not) white Heritage..
[11:21] (td) does he fear others?
[11:21] (td) who does he fear
[11:21] (USmotto) Wanting your government to know who they are allowing into this nation is notr xenophobic
[11:21] (FreeTrad3) Ironically he is a Catholic and most founders if anything were anti catholic and for decadeds, centuries in fact the object of Nativists was Catholics as the ruining force of America.
[11:21] (td) USmotto: I agree
[11:21] (FreeTrad3) Catholics suffered Bigotry for centuries in the USA
[11:21] (Aufk|aren) td: The Foreign Office has already described itself as "outraged," if that answers your question.
[11:21] (_rwx) Abusive Domain or User
[11:21] (Aufk|aren) td: How would you know anything anyway, when you rely on Iranian state press?
[11:22] (pilgrim`) I could never run for PResidnet and that is ironic. I am as American as it gets but I would be unacceptable to 90%, the reason: bigotry. and I am even a WHite Guy!
[11:22] (FreeTrad3) USmotto, Who here is against the government knowing who is in this country ?
[11:22] (pilgrim`) btw, if nominated I shall nto run, if elected I shall not serve
[11:22] (FreeTrad3) I think one powerful argument for making illegals legal is because it would make htem KNOWN to be in america and IDENTIFIED as being in americas.
[11:22] (FreeTrad3) I also have no issue with Border control.
[11:22] (USmotto) FreeTrad3, whatever Libertarians might be present
[11:22] (td) Not wanting Illegals crossing the border isnt xenophobic
[11:22] (Aufk|aren) pilgrim': It is because you're gay? :)
[11:22] * draugluin votes for pilgrim`
[11:22] (FreeTrad3) As long as it doesnt block out a needed work force.
[11:23] (pilgrim`) Auf I am Wiccan
[11:23] (Aufk|aren) pilgrim': Oh, then no chance you're right. :P
[11:23] (draugluin) he does not want to be president he is the only one to be trusted with power like that
[11:23] (Aufk|aren) Even I wouldn't vote for a Wiccan, and I'm an atheist. :p
[11:23] (Aufk|aren) Just kidding, I might do. If you were a good candidate. ;)
[11:23] (pilgrim`) and have been and can be shown on backgroudn to have been for over 30 years
[11:23] (USmotto) You HAVE to kbnow who it is you're allowing access to our country. This is basic
[11:23] (Eeyore) i would vite for anyone prepared to properly defend westerrn values agianst the barbarians at the gates
[11:24] (pilgrim`) exactly
[11:24] (td) USMotto: you have to take the bad with the good and allow them all in, or the U.S. economy will be severely hindered
[11:24] (FreeTrad3) I used to be against things like offering them drivers licenses, then I realized the absolute illogic of that.. The substitute for not giving them licenses, is them driving anyway without them, Not needing to get insurance when they are willing to if they had a license, And it both costs Americans more money and again, Makes them harder to track..
[11:24] (pilgrim`) Free I can truely truely truely see the sheer unfairness of this plan
[11:25] (td) I was reading some stuff from some prominent U.S. Economists, and it was clear that Illegals make the U.S. Economy work
[11:25] (pilgrim`) but,
[11:25] (FreeTrad3) SO if Aericans think keeping them in the shadows and not having INsurance which costs everyone more is wiser, Well. Thats they way it will be.
[11:25] (pilgrim`) I have seen unfairness as the American halmark from day one
[11:25] (td) If you dont want a 10$ apple, youll support amnesty
[11:25] (pilgrim`) td a little hunger might help America some
[11:25] (Eeyore) unfairness is easy to see anywhere. you just have to set the paramaters of whats 'fair' properly (so to speak) and hell everything is unfair.
[11:26] (td) I like a 3 pound bag of apples for a couple bucks, so I support full amnesty
[11:26] (draugluin) point is america is supposed to be the fairest country
[11:26] (td) I cant imagine having to pay more
[11:26] (FreeTrad3) td yeah.. For centuries there was no border.. they did menial labor, then they had border control literally, nmot meant to stop them all but to control how many got across.. so floods wouldnt come across. to come and do menial jobs americans would never fill all of them.
[11:26] (Eeyore) td sorry man but thats how western Europe fucked itself.
[11:26] (FreeTrad3) Now they want a very tight border, Ok, Ican live with that, but I want a very responsive legal labor exchange..
[11:26] (USmotto) Illegals are a clear drain on our society. Forget that some are murderers, some are even serial murderers, some are rapists, thieves, dideased. They terrroize US citizens living along our border daily. Many are gang members. Look, what do you weant from your government if not protection from invaders?
[11:27] (pilgrim`) Amerifca has become a country that on so many levels devolves to: He who can manage the forms, wins. Producign soemthing is secondary to manipulation of the beauracracy
[11:27] (td) Usmotto: thats old style racist thinking that needs to disapear
[11:27] (FreeTrad3) SO when a person in the USa Wants a bunch of laborers for $10 an hour who are paying taxes, then they get them..
[11:27] (td) who is telling you that illegals are serial murderers and rapists? thats clearly untrue
[11:27] (USmotto) What race am I talking here?
[11:27] (FreeTrad3) And it would also help if the US would make it less of a crime to hire anyone.. INcluding americans by punishing them with all kinds of fines.
[11:27] (draugluin) td: somme are. not all. but there are still plenty of them
[11:27] (USmotto) Mexicans are Caucasions
[11:27] (Eeyore) as it is, the ILLEGALS get far better treatement than those who wish to immigrate legally. hell im thinking iof becoming an iceback myself
[11:28] (pilgrim`) welfare? fill out a form. Illegal? Apply for a form? Rich and don't want to pay taxes? hire someone to fille a lot of forms. Want to get rich? become a doctor or lawyer and merely generate forms
[11:28] (FreeTrad3) They should eliminate workers comp completely. Maybe require employees to get insurance with a car to get a job. But Not put it on the employer.
[11:28] (FreeTrad3) Workers comp is one of the worst parts of being an employer.
[11:28] (pilgrim`) forms forms forms forms forms
[11:28] (FreeTrad3) SS and Taxes are nothing compared to workers comp
[11:28] (nharris) Geico insurance is so easy to use..even a cavewoman can do it! http://www.all-hairy.com/ahgalleries/aloma2/v2/
[11:28] (FreeTrad3) Employer contributions.
[11:28] (USmotto) Tightening our labor force will result in higher wages
[11:28] (pilgrim`) Free yep
[11:28] (FreeTrad3) But actually employers should pay no taxes., Employees should pay them all.
[11:29] (draugluin) nharris the caveman was bad enough. now hes an actor
[11:29] (td) higher wages arent good
[11:29] (FreeTrad3) THen they would have a tax revolt.
[11:29] (td) I want lower wages
[11:29] (nharris) hahahah
[11:29] (pilgrim`) I would liek us to return to a cash culture
[11:29] (td) people arent worth higher wages
[11:29] (USmotto) Lower wages for Americans...
[11:29] (FreeTrad3) But the reason they have employers have taxes withdrawn is to hide your taxes from you, Your getting paid less because your employer pays all kinds of hidden expenses on you.
[11:29] (td) If Illegals are lowering wages for Americans, thats good for businesses, I say bring more in
[11:29] (USmotto) Lower standard of living for Americans...
[11:29] (draugluin) td is right, now with $7.50 an hour, the people who dont want to get a better paying job dont have to.
[11:29] (FreeTrad3) You cost us $60.00 an hour when we pay you $40.00 an hour.
[11:29] (pilgrim`) if you had pay in hand and then saw just how much all at once, the weasels in "Service" are gouging you for...
[11:30] (FreeTrad3) You could be getting $60.00 an hour instead or split the difference, $50.00
[11:30] (pilgrim`) Free exactly. so, Illegals cost less. why? less FORMS!
[11:30] (FreeTrad3) THis way employer and employee would make more money
[11:30] (Lupine) pilgrim`: and all taxation would be paid in cash, at the end of the year.
[11:30] (draugluin) give minumum wage workers more money, chances are they spend money on the wrong things
[11:30] (pilgrim`) agreed
[11:30] (USmotto) Our government has the duty to make policy that defends our standard of living, not endangers it
[11:30] (FreeTrad3) because the employees would demand lower taxes
[11:30] (pilgrim`) Lupine IN PENNIES!
[11:30] (pilgrim`) REAL COPPER PENNIES
[11:31] (draugluin) with zinc inside if hes post 1983
[11:31] (FreeTrad3) Its dishonest and its crooked policy our government under FDR and Johnson and even Reagan allowed.
[11:31] (pilgrim`) bread and circus
[11:31] (USmotto) Pennies and nickels have actually more value in metal than their worth
[11:31] (draugluin) yes
[11:31] (draugluin) which is why the penny should be obsolete
[11:31] (pilgrim`) know how much nickel is in a nickel? easy: 5grams
[11:32] (pilgrim`) no, the penny shoudl be WORTH A PENNY
[11:32] (USmotto) Too bad our dollar is nothing but cotton
[11:32] (draugluin) with fancy designs
[11:32] (USmotto) right
[11:32] (pilgrim`) I would venture to guess that maybe 3 people here even know what a dollar is.. ue what it shoudl be worth
[11:32] (Lupine) pilgrim`: i support the return of a .9999 gold US dollar. unfortunately, it would be an exceedingly small coin...
[11:32] (FreeTrad3) We should just get rid of the penny
[11:32] (FreeTrad3) hell, I would rather pay 4 cents more or 4 cents less..
[11:33] (Lupine) i bet there is $1 trillion in pennies buried in landfilles
[11:33] (FreeTrad3) It must cost a fortune for the government to simply process pennies.
[11:33] (pilgrim`) Lupine set the dollar to 1 dollar, as exchaned in gold, then scrap this Fe Reserve monopoly money
[11:33] (Lupine) fills
[11:33] (Sublimer-) uh
[11:33] (FreeTrad3) Lupine not that much but a lot..
[11:33] (FreeTrad3) I throw my pennies away
[11:33] (Sublimer-) getting rid of the penny.. cause like a 5% inflation instantly.
[11:33] (Sublimer-) HEH
[11:33] (Lupine) pilgrim`: of course, but that would be a hella tiny bit of gold.
[11:33] (FreeTrad3) I leave them on counters for people who need a penny when they have a sign.
[11:33] (USmotto) It's less than two cents, I believe
[11:33] * draugluin goes and digs in Staten Island for pennys
[11:33] (pilgrim`) Lupine a revalue of Crap to new/real bucks
[11:33] (FreeTrad3) you seen those ? Need a penny take one, Have one ? Leave one.
[11:34] (pilgrim`) like 1000 to 1
[11:34] (nharris) I probably have $50 worth of pennies in my 2 coffee cans :)
[11:34] * Lupine recycles coke cans.. i crush them, put them in a pre-paid evelope [ from those annoying junk mail ] and make it back
[11:34] (Lupine) mail ugh
[11:34] (FreeTrad3) Or I will clean out my change pocket downtown put it in top of a newspaper stand orsomething for some homeless guy to get 11 cents or 23 or whatever.
[11:34] (pilgrim`) I like pennies. when casting, the zinc ads some strength
[11:34] (draugluin) lol Lupine
[11:34] (Lupine) I often will stuff junk catalogs in as well
[11:34] (FreeTrad3) My goal isnt to help anyone, I just dont want to carry them.
[11:35] (FreeTrad3) And I hate to literally throw them away
[11:35] (FreeTrad3) so I put them where someone else can have them.
[11:35] (pilgrim`) why not pay taxes witht hem?
[11:35] (USmotto) good idea
[11:35] (Lupine) go thru the exact change toll boths with the pennies
[11:35] * Sublimer- kicks the IRS
[11:35] (Lupine) booths ugh
[11:35] (pilgrim`) btw. One Dollar = One Man's Labor for One Day
[11:35] (FreeTrad3) My wife used to pick them up and call them lucky pennies, I told her what kind of germs are on a typical penny and how it wasnt worth it to picke it up. Unless it was a steel penny ;) From the war
[11:36] (USmotto) Some men are worth more than others
[11:36] (Lupine) pilgrim`: Judas was satisfied with 4970 dollars less
[11:36] (pilgrim`) penny makes a great copper washerwhen you drill a hole
[11:36] (FreeTrad3) Yeah I have a 5 gallon can half full of pennies..
[11:36] (FreeTrad3) I wont throw those away
[11:36] (FreeTrad3) some day they will go to the bank
[11:36] (USmotto) That's why, as a laborer, I don't like unions
[11:36] (nharris) I've got a completely blank penny in my collection...somehow never got stamped on either side
[11:37] (draugluin) wow
[11:37] (draugluin) i have some wheat pennys
[11:37] (Lupine) nharris: um, they call that a #9 copper pipe fitter
[11:37] (nharris) hahah
[11:37] (draugluin) and a penny from 18something
[11:37] (gopp) oh
[11:37] (USmotto) When I work harder than the guy next to me, I want to be paid more
[11:37] (FreeTrad3) Yeah I dont like unions either. My wife could make more money if not for her having to pay SAIF dues whether she joins or not.
[11:37] (gopp) Lupine did you see they hacked apple tvos to work on anynewmac
[11:37] (nharris) it's a tad fatter than a regular penny, as you'd expect from not being stamped
[11:37] (gopp) FreeTrad3 what is SAIF
[11:37] (Lupine) gopp: shouldn't have been that hard, given that the iTV just really is a pc
[11:38] (gopp) Lupine so it supports dd and dts
[11:38] (gopp) know
[11:38] (gopp) so you have no reason to say it lacks audio
[11:38] (USmotto) In a union, the slow guy sets the pace
[11:38] (gopp) :)
[11:38] (FreeTrad3) I said join its literally 1 penny more to join than what they take even if you dont join. And in case there is some benefit you need.. You might as well get it. She has no choice but to pay even though she doesnt want to belong.
[11:38] (Lupine) nharris: i'm serious about that. the #9 copper pipe fitter spacer is often mistaken for an unstamped penny
[11:38] (FreeTrad3) State Employees fuckedup union ?
[11:38] (USmotto) Unions are communistic anyway
[11:38] (FreeTrad3) I dont know its a gOvernment union.
[11:38] (Lupine) gopp: it doesn't support DDlive encoding for the digital outputs. that isn't code/software. that requires a $0.25 chip
[11:39] (nharris) oh.. I better compare. Can you get those pipe fitter spacers at Home depot?
[11:39] (FreeTrad3) She does health care for the county.
[11:39] (gopp) Lupine if the pc has ddlive it does support it
[11:39] (Lupine) nharris: yep
[11:39] (nharris) k
[11:39] (Lupine) gopp: we're talking about the iTV :P
[11:39] (gopp) Lupine if the said pc has ddlive chip
[11:39] (FreeTrad3) SAIF I dont know. I may have the wrong acronym
[11:39] (Yaakov) Lupine: Did you see: http://media.primezone.com/cache/189/file/3821.mpg ?
[11:39] (nharris) I do have a legit two-headed nickel!
[11:39] (L0c0) blah
[11:39] (gopp) you can install ITV software on almost any new pc Lupine
[11:39] (gopp) :)
[11:39] (L0c0) i'm bored
[11:39] (gopp) Lupine:)
[11:39] (Lupine) gopp: i would hope so.. duh
[11:39] (L0c0) somebody wanna come watch the chil'en while i wander off to get some coffee?
[11:39] (Yaakov) Lupine: UAV ) tank escort
[11:40] (gopp) then you can argue it support ddlive Lupine
[11:40] (Lupine) Yaakov: yea.. were was that from thou?
[11:40] (Yaakov) It was a couple of links away from DID (www.defenseindustrydaily.com)
[11:40] (SweetLeaf) We have had mailboxes on our corners since I can remember now they are removing them because they say they dont get used but its vandels that are doing the most dammage hmmmmmm didnt happen when I was young
[11:40] (Lupine) gopp: if I say "the apple iTV does not support quad SLI videocards".. its irrevent if another mac, or PC computer supports it :P
[11:41] (Lupine) SweetLeaf: i remember when mailboxes were on your front porch
[11:41] (Yaakov) Lupine: The car keeps rolling and then finally the tank figures out what happened.
[11:41] (gopp) Lupine I am speaking of apple tv OS
[11:41] (gopp) the operatingsystem
[11:41] (SweetLeaf) heh
[11:41] (Yaakov) Lupine: No one jumps out of the tanks, though.
[11:41] (gopp) Lupine the hardware it runs on is irrevlant
[11:41] (Lupine) i'm wondering whose tank that is
[11:41] (SweetLeaf) post office makes more and we have to go there to mail a letter
[11:42] (Yaakov) err.. tank
[11:42] (SweetLeaf) boo hooo its emiail that killed us
[11:42] (Yaakov) Lupine: It must be Iraqi, that's a bit old.
[11:42] (Lupine) Yaakov: possibly in bosnia/serbia/etc
[11:43] (Lupine) but yea, wonder why they hit the car, not the tank.. and then the tank stops and just sits there
[11:43] (Yaakov) Lupine: Could be... but the terrain looks like Iraq.
[11:43] (Yaakov) Well, I think there was a high value target in the car and the tankers weren't about to jump out not knowing what the hell just hit that car.
[11:44] (Lupine) well, in desert storm.. generally once one got hit, they ALL got out and RAN
[11:44] (Lupine) saw plenty of footage from my cousin [ F/A-18 in desert storm ]
[11:44] (Yaakov) That might be a test.
[11:45] (Yaakov) Hang on... let me track it down.
[11:45] (SweetLeaf) man tony snow is a goner I wonder how long he has
[11:45] (fordnut) that video is from a predator
[11:45] (fordnut) drone
[11:45] (SweetLeaf) once the shit spreads it is over
[11:46] (SweetLeaf) Snows younger than me
[11:46] (Eeyore) who is tony snow?
[11:46] (Lupine) hhmm... "JUdge Maria Lopez".. is that the same miss Lopez from the OJ trial??
[11:46] (Lupine) Eeyore: spokesman for the whitehouse
[11:46] (Yaakov) Lupine: Yes, apparently it is a test run.
[11:47] (Eeyore) Lupine thank you
[11:47] (Yaakov) Lupine: The guys in the tank must be controlling the car.
[11:47] (USmotto) Snow is a mouthpiece for the government, and therefore should not be trusted
[11:47] (USmotto) Governments are corrupt and inept
[11:47] (Yaakov) Lupine: Heh, look carefully, the tank is TOWING the car!
[11:48] (Yaakov) Lupine: It is a Viper Strike missle.
[11:48] (SweetLeaf) eyor look at the topic
[11:48] (SweetLeaf) heh
[11:49] (Yaakov) Lupine: Fired by an RQ-5A Hunter UAV, it seems.
[11:49] (nharris) Future Weapons is on tonight
[11:49] (Lupine) Heh.. luckily it didn' tlock onto the wrong target
[11:49] (SweetLeaf) new one
[11:50] (thx1138^) yay futureweapons
[11:50] (Yaakov) Lupine: Yes, that would be a d'oh moment.
[11:50] (L0c0) McCaffrey: Military ‘in peril’: The Iraq war has left the U.S. military “in a position of strategic peril,” retired Army Gen. Barry McCaffrey has warned in the wake of a recent trip to Iraq.
[11:51] (Lupine) um.. we are using very little of our strategic forces
[11:51] (SweetLeaf) when have our army not been in peril that is their job.
[11:51] (SweetLeaf) Clinton abused it used it and loathed it
[11:52] (Eeyore) SweetLeaf not as bad as Carter did
[11:52] (SweetLeaf) just saying
[11:52] (SweetLeaf) the army is abused all the time so what
[11:52] (SweetLeaf) you now that going into it
[11:52] (pilgrim`) cARTER WAS TO aMERICA'S SECURITY WHAT rAPE IS TO LOVE
[11:52] (USmotto) Let's stop abusing them
[11:52] (Yaakov) Robotics and telepresence are going to make war a lot different.
[11:52] (nharris) man..did you see that list of Hillary quotes floating around on the internet? She is a major SHREW
[11:53] (Yaakov) I mean, they already have.
[11:53] (Yaakov) But it is accelerating.
[11:53] (Eeyore) pilgrim` agreed even with reverse caps
[11:53] (USmotto) These are men and womens' lives we're talking about
[11:53] (SweetLeaf) anyone that sees a comercial about college and money for it join If you join now your going to war pal simple school later
[11:53] (pilgrim`) if Hillary was ever taken hostage she would be released to just free the hostage takers from her bitching
[11:54] (pilgrim`) Eeyore I ma ...obviously...a hunt peck typist
[11:54] (Lupine) pilgrim`: i think we need to send Jesse Jackson to Iran
[11:54] (Eeyore) pilgrim` :*)
[11:54] (pilgrim`) with terrible dyslexia
[11:54] (USmotto) I doubt they'd wait for the pick up
[11:54] (Eeyore) Lupine actually you need to send Micheal Moore to Iran.
[11:55] (pilgrim`) Iran is moslem, they have a problem with pig fat
[11:55] (USmotto) I think everyone in favor of war with Iran goes to fight
[11:55] (Lupine) Eeyore: well, there would be a certain poetic justice to see a bunch of islamic rednecks dragging jackson behind a jacked up pickup truck thru the streets of Tehran
[11:55] (Eeyore) Lupine yes thats why I want to see moore there. ideally he tries to make a movie about the Iranian govt and then finds out what bad govt actually means.
[11:56] (Lupine) lol
[11:56] (USmotto) I think everyone in favor of this Iraq occupation goes to Iraq
[11:56] (USmotto) That's my draft
[11:56] (Lupine) During the election of 2004, he made this LOUD TALK about how he was going to videotape all the evil republicans stealing votes in Miami County. i knew it was going well when Moore quietly packed up and left. refusing to talk to the media
[11:56] (Lupine) moore that is
[11:56] (Eeyore) USmotto you really dont get it do you? the US has a volunteer army already. its already as you say.
[11:57] (pilgrim`) Lupien Dems were stealing votes right on schedule so he turned the camera off?
[11:57] (Lupine) yep
[11:57] (USmotto) Eeyore, there are millions of Americans in favor of the occupation in Iraq that aren't there. Problem with reader comprehension?
[11:57] (Eeyore) Lupine for a year or two, Moore was my battle. trying to get people to recognize what a liar and opportunist he was. now that he is outed, his suporters have moved on to global warming
[11:58] (Lupine) yep.. moore out, gore in
[11:58] (Eeyore) USmotto there are millions of people in favour of pro baseball that dont play it. your point?
[11:58] (thx1138^) anyone here think iran actually has the stingray?
[11:58] (pilgrim`) USMotto I am in favor of occupation of a nic sunny beach on a caribian island. but I don't want milliosn to go there with me
[11:59] (Eeyore) USmotto the thing bout a free republic is, you have the choice of supporting a thing and not actually going and doing that thing as directly as you suggest althougjhhundreds of thousands actually do
[11:59] (USmotto) eeyore, that is so far off, I don't believe there's any coming back for you. You're just saying something to have something to say
[11:59] (thebarry) http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6861/308/1600/wm02.jpg
[11:59] (Eeyore) USmotto ok if you think so. your so blinkerd by your seeming hatred of this action that you make up imposeble standards to justify your position. ok fine. if you look at it, its already as you say. like it or not
[12:00] (thx1138^) thebarry now superimpose that picture with one that has dots for every church and organized religion office
[12:00] (thx1138^) point being: walmart actually sells shit people need
[12:00] (USmotto) Eeyore, they need you in Iraq. Our troops are going through gruesome times. Three tours, stop loss, our troops need relief from those who support their mission
[12:01] (Eeyore) wallmart has cheaper prescription drug prices than canadian pharamacies often by 90%
[12:01] (USmotto) Where are you?
[12:01] (Eeyore) USmotto for the record, when this thing hits the horrible proportions it will likely hit because of people who prevent the proper actions being taken before its horrific, I shall go. really. i plan to.
[12:02] (pilgrim`) Lupine http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=197700861
[12:02] (Eeyore) Im in Canada.
[12:02] (USmotto) Let's take a poll. All those in favor of the Iraqi occupation go to Iraq, and all those opposed stay home. Suddenly, you'd have 99-1 in disagreement with the occupation, and it'd end tomorrow
[12:02] (Eeyore) but I would join the US forces if Canada refuses to do whats neccesary or maybe even Israeli. i doubt either would have me, but im sure there is some role I can play in defence of civilsiation
[12:03] (Eeyore) USmotto oh thats clever. all infavour of intrusive heart surgery go get it now need it or not and those opposed? dont get it. suddenly its not available to anyone. clever.
[12:03] (USmotto) It all comes down to you want someone else to fight
[12:03] * SonOfSpam points out that USmotto's hypothetical "every supporter goes" scenerio would collapse the economy, make it impossible to fund the war, and neglects the absolute necessity of private sector support for the war.
[12:04] (USmotto) Huge in the internet war supporting crowd
[12:04] (Eeyore) USmotto everything is about division of labour. people working their jobs and paying taxes ARE supporting the action in thier own way. you cant send everyone over there or we lose the thing
[12:04] (Eeyore) SonOfSpam yes of course.
[12:04] (Lupine) pilgrim`: oh, that looks like a fun suit :-)
[12:04] (USmotto) For the war, but not willing to fight
[12:04] (SonOfSpam) Not to mention that government officials who are needed to help manage the country and the military bureaucracy would have to go.
[12:04] (SonOfSpam) Which makes zero sense.
[12:04] (Eeyore) exactly SonOfSpam
[12:04] (USmotto) Just like our leaders
[12:05] (thx1138^) pilgrim` cool I hope that guy wins
[12:05] (Eeyore) SonOfSpam but lack of logic never stops the rabid anti US anti western anti 'globilisation' types
[12:05] (nharris) I was repairing the personal computer of a coworker a couple of months ago. Turns out her son has been downloading pics of HIS hot gf from his phone onto the PC. Major monkeyspank fuel! Lucky punk :)
[12:05] (SonOfSpam) Just another of a million childish expectations that have not been thought out past selfish agendas.
[12:05] * Eeyore votes for SonOfSpam
[12:05] (thebarry) nharris, pics plz
[12:05] (thx1138^) USmotto so no one but the people on the ground overseas are allowed opinions?
[12:05] (thebarry) unless she's like 12
[12:06] (nharris) no no..both are in college :)
[12:06] (thebarry) oh nice
[12:06] (nharris) latina with an hourglass figure
[12:06] (nharris) let's see if they're on this system
[12:06] (Eeyore) nharris now you arent allowed to tease the class unless you brought a sample for everyone
[12:06] (thebarry) nothing porno tho
[12:07] (nharris) heheheh yeah that was not cool of me. I'll have them by tonight.. they should be on my backup CD from last month
[12:07] (Eeyore) hahahah
[12:07] (USmotto) thx1138^, all are allowed their opinions. Some have to live them
[12:07] (thebarry) that would be fucked up for some girls nude pics to hit the net
[12:07] (thx1138^) USmotto and some do. Whats the problem?
[12:07] (nharris) the paris hilton story
[12:07] (thebarry) and when she comes here all pissed off and ready to sue i'm point at you sir
[12:07] (Eeyore) thebarry hey its part of the process for western man to finally get over its absurd post christian sex hangups.
[12:08] (thx1138^) Eeyore well put.
[12:08] (USmotto) thx1138^, I don't think I can explain to you, based on that comment
[12:08] (Eeyore) i might add, every hot women will see a day if she lives long enough, to wish to god that she had pics of when she could make traffic stop
[12:08] (Cathy344) http://news.lugnet.com/mediawatch/?n=2281
[12:08] (Cathy344) Everybody say it with me now... WHAT... THE... FUCK?
[12:08] (Lupine) nharris: a consultant at work one day had computer problems, and asked me if I could look at it. I found child porn.. of HIM with little boys. Needless to say.. I called the cops.
[12:08] (nharris) christian attitude to sex is healthy.. the alternate is to treat it so casually that it becomes as dull as sharpening a pencil
[12:09] (thx1138^) USmotto or are you simply insinuating that you wish every person with an opinion opposite yours participate in direct combat for the sheer sake of facetiousness?
[12:09] (Eeyore) Cathy344 a logical extgention of the virus which is post modernism
[12:09] (SonOfSpam) nharris... one can have a healthy sexual attitude without fearing hell though.
[12:09] (nharris) true.. a medium attitude would be better
[12:09] (SonOfSpam) Fearing disease is the first that pops to mind.
[12:09] (nharris) those folks who are into the major KINK are the ones who let sex get too casual
[12:10] (SonOfSpam) Fearing no girl will want you if they find out you're a man slut is another.
[12:10] (Eeyore) nharris I dont think thats poseeble. and frankly, the one thing the western world needs more of now is sex and hopefully babies since no western nation otehr than the US is actually maintaining its own populations
[12:10] (Cathy344) Eeyore: WTF?
[12:10] (pilgrim`) I thought you should only have sex int he missionary position with arms stretched out int he sign of the corss, and pray as you do it -honest, a Catholic I knew once honestly said a preist had told him this
[12:10] (Eeyore) Cathy344 STF with refrence to waht? the post modern comment)?
[12:10] (Cathy344) Yeah. Is extgention even a word?
[12:11] (nharris) yeah.. it's way possible..hence the wife swapping, BDSM, scat porn acts etc.. It's not the libido hurting the countries like japan, it's the economy
[12:11] (Eeyore) Cathy344 extention. sorry. and yes it is one. I will detail if you want. it is in fact a post modern attitude that is destroying us. contempt for everything we have made and built. things like private property or the notion that some people are better than otehrs at things etc.
[12:11] (Yaakov) Cathy344: No.
[12:11] (pilgrim`) Japan has their ways, and CHina and France, and Joplin Missouri
[12:12] (USmotto) thx1138^, I'm saying our troops, who the pro-war advocates have comitted to action in Iraq, are needed to relieve these troops as they are being over-taxed by all accounts. Three tours, stop-loss. Absolutely everyone in favor of Iraqi occupation should be in line at their local recruiters' office.
[12:12] (nharris) I used to live near Joplin :)
[12:12] (pilgrim`) been thru there a few times
[12:12] (nharris) I want to get a picture of myself standing next to F4G Bearings
[12:12] (pilgrim`) weird native culture in Joplin ;)
[12:12] (USmotto) Put your life where your mouth is
[12:13] (pilgrim`) USmotto I have, have you?
[12:13] (Eeyore) USmotto ok by your logic, everyone against the war in Iraq and maybe now in Iran, should immediatly go chain themselves to say, oh the Iranian uranium centrifuge operations. yes thats a good idea. if your against it, you shoud go put yourself at risk for it now
[12:13] (PickleWrk) Every single person who spouts the "chickenhawk" meme or a varient should have their right to vote taken away. This isn't a military dictatorship, fucktards.
[12:14] (SonOfSpam) Pickle... but according to the far left Bush has made himself the fascist military dictator of the US and none of us are safe!
[12:14] (SonOfSpam) :P
[12:14] (thx1138^) USmotto you don't think that if such dire need existed the draft would be implemented?
[12:15] (PickleWrk) Every single person who opposes the war should have to serve in the military, since the logic that you can't judge the appropriateness of sending the men to war unless you've served also applies to telling the men to retreat from war.
[12:15] (nharris) the draft would be good.. it would chase the libs out, beef up the military and ensure more people had an income
[12:15] (USmotto) excuse me, just came back, and I'm a slow typer...
[12:16] (PickleWrk) That logic goes both ways, but the people bullshitting about "chickenhawks" only apply it one way. Hypocrites.
[12:16] * Eeyore reminds USmotto that the people who DID go to Iraq to become human shields where all removed by Sadamn from hospitals and so on, and chained to missile sites and military com stations
[12:16] (nharris) Text 8866 on your cell phone to get George Clooney's political advice sent daily!
[12:16] (thx1138^) rofl
[12:16] (USmotto) pilgrim, I try hard not to talk past what I'm willing to back up.
[12:16] (thx1138^) yeah cause HE'S an expert.
[12:17] (Eeyore) USmotto then off you go to Iran now to become a human shild. have anice flight
[12:17] (nharris) The cloonster has appointed himself "Exalted Knower of all things foreign policy"
[12:17] (Eeyore) George Cloony from Oh brotehr where art though?
[12:18] (USmotto) Eeyore, as far as Iranian centrifuges, I'm not afraid of Iran. They could work forever and as long as we keep up R&D, they will absolutely never be able to challenge the USA
[12:19] (nharris) that's the George Clooney we all know!
[12:19] (pilgrim`) heh. Rome said that about the Goths stoo
[12:19] (pilgrim`) too
[12:19] (Eeyore) USmotto you need to research what theya re doing. challenge? maybe not. blow up a few cities and wreck the economy? yes/
[12:20] * pilgrim` thinks too many here believe their own propaganda...or TV shows
[12:20] (Eeyore) USmotto really, you need to understand that if they build a primitive working nuke it doesnt have top be state of the art. it just has to arive by FEDEX to within a few miles of a major city
[12:20] (pilgrim`) Eeyore exactly
[12:21] (Eeyore) FWIW I spoke with Canada's leading nuclear weapons negotiater. they just need a few lbs. of refined uranium some PVC pipe and some C4 and a guy willing to die setting it off. thats it. coming to an Iranian embassy near you
[12:22] (USmotto) Eeyore, if they do, they will be obliterated before you could nuke a cup of coffee. It's called deterence, and I believe in it, and that's why the US must always improve it's defenses. We can do it.
[12:22] (FreeTrad3) Anyone know what pdf/A compliant means as opposed to plain old PDF ?
[12:22] (SonOfSpam) Problem with deterence and terrorism... who do you retaliate against if the terrorist is unknown?
[12:23] (Eeyore) USmotto ok I understand you. but deterence only works when both sides have a similar ethos. this isnt what you think it is. this isnt cold war logic. we are dealing with a cult member who believes its his destiny to bring back the hidden immam by global chaos man made.
[12:23] (PickleWrk) The problem with deterrence is that it assumes the other side isn't eager to die if it means taking you with them. That's the only reason why deterrence worked with the Soviets.
[12:23] (Eeyore) SonOfSpam well thats part of it yes sponsor states are harder to get your people to fight against
[12:23] (Eeyore) PickleWrk yes
[12:24] (PickleWrk) The Iranians are willing to destroy everyone on earth if it means taking the west out.
[12:24] (PickleWrk) If you don't understand that, you don't understand the nature and depth of their faith and therefore your dumbass opinion is irrelevant.
[12:24] (pilgrim`) 1993 they attacked WTC with trucks. low tech. it didn't work so 2001 planes somewhat higher, but still low tech. that worked. and gee no GPS locator, or fanciy guidance system either
[12:24] (FreeTrad3) Abusive Domain or User
[12:24] (Eeyore) PickleWrk and have said as much
[12:24] (FreeTrad3) USMotto, we are improving our defenses by fighting in Iraq and Adghanistan and Phillipines and other places in the world we are fighting right now which are covert its many places. THis gives us the most seasoned experienced and battle hardended warriors in the world (With modern Equipment)
[12:25] (FreeTrad3) I hate to sound hmm whats the term ? brash ? But its a fact that they are getting live training.. Not just simulated and computer training.
[12:25] (Eeyore) FreeTrad3 what we need now is the other 4 fronts. hearts and minds. people have to remember that western civilised values are worth fighting for. we have to get the idea out of schools that all ways of living are equal
[12:25] (FreeTrad3) But actual COmbat battlefield experience, Jungle, Urban, Desert etc.
[12:26] (pilgrim`) Eeyore it is a subject I am knowledgeable on; they need more then that to make a fissionable, but a dirty bomb, that is, a bomb that scatteres a radioactive payload. yep, that woudl do it
[12:26] (FreeTrad3) Yeah, Americans lacks of I dont know, Care ? Lack of understanding ? Lack of values ? Disturbs me. This war is in out national interest and though it was not directly related to 911, it is related to the war on terrorism without a doubt.
[12:27] (Eeyore) pilgrim` as I undewrstand it, the type of material they are making, the A Q Khan centrifuge method makes it easy to get a nuclear explosion with equal amounts of unpolished U(23X) and C4 with a proper detonator.
[12:27] (FreeTrad3) Iraq was a terrorist state.. Whether or NOT it exported it to the USA. It did export it to its neighbors.
[12:27] (SonOfSpam) USmotto... remember that what we believed to be the Iraq threat wasn't a direct one, but rather the threat posed by a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction ready to use them or provide them to terrorists, drug traffickers or organized criminals who travel the world among us unnoticed.
[12:27] (Eeyore) pilgrim` i could be wrong
[12:27] (FreeTrad3) Its also a place Al Queda has chosen to make a stand against us.
[12:27] (FreeTrad3) AL Queda Chose it.
[12:28] (pilgrim`) Eeyore that is "true" in the same way that Websters is "a buncha words" is true. there are steps which are soemwhat difficult
[12:28] (pilgrim`) but with those components you COULD bring a city to its knees
[12:28] (L0c0) New, young wounded vets say VA is unprepared: http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/03/military_wounded_vets_070327w/
[12:28] (Eeyore) pilgrim` ok. are you aware of this? http://www.zeenews.com/articles.asp?rep=2&aid=358644&sid=WOR&ssid
[12:28] (L0c0) good article
[12:29] (FreeTrad3) They were delighted when we decided to liberate Iraq.. They saw it as thier opportunity to defeat us. And Usama was inspired this has been said many times by many experts on him by the movie Blackhawk Down.. He believes Americans have no will to fight. That we are a bunch of pussies. Paper Tigers.. And the sad thing is other than our military, he might be right.
[12:29] (USmotto) Eeyore, there are certainly nuts out there, but I alsop believe that governments create nuts through propoganda, so I'm wary. So if some nut wants to commit his nation to obliteration, then make him do it, we'll oblige. But I have a healthy distrust of government and its propaganda arms to question their assessment of anty nations' intentions. This includes the various interpretations of Ahmadineejads' comments on Israel
[12:29] (SonOfSpam) A WMD or other successful mass killing terrorist attack carried out by those a rogue nation supports, but not by the nation itself, is nearly impossible to deter.
[12:29] (SonOfSpam) Before our retaliation on Afghanistan the idea such activity could be successfully detered was damn near nil.
[12:29] (pilgrim`) no I was not. depends on what they do with them
[12:29] (Eeyore) USmotto Im familair with the inerpretation issue. Many people I trust assure us all that what AMiderjab says is what he means and what he does.
[12:29] (FreeTrad3) Any rogue state right now is a threat to national security because none of them would have the slightest qualm about seeing a city in the USA Nuked.
[12:30] (pilgrim`) 1 nuke int he US will be answered in a very very very bad way and THAT is an issue
[12:30] (FreeTrad3) The only fear a country like Iran, Syria, would have about a nuke going off in NYC would be getting caught and implicated and retaliated against, but if they thought they could do it without getting caught they would aid anyone in a heartbeat..
[12:30] (pilgrim`) gotta go, bbl
[12:30] (FreeTrad3) And I think they do believe they can get away with it and deny it.
[12:31] (Eeyore) USmotto during the dark ages, Europe was mostly run by loonies who had they atomic weapons would do exacty what Iran plans and for nearly identical reasons. why do you think its some propaganda excorsise now? its the same scenario. rememebr Egypt Greece and Rome whwre high cvilsations then
[12:31] (FreeTrad3) I dont think they can.
[12:31] (FreeTrad3) but they think they can
[12:31] (Eeyore) or rather right before
[12:31] (nharris) a nuke in NYC would be good.. rid our worst liberals, get the rest of the liberal onboard with the war.
[12:31] (Eeyore) ok I gotta go for a while. good chatting with you all as always
[12:31] (thebarry) jfc Lupine
[12:32] (thebarry) that's gotta fuck you up
[12:32] (Eeyore) nharris HOW can you say that? Thats HORRIFYING! the cost to the US would be inclaculable. make it on Hollywood instead.
[12:32] * SonOfSpam wonders if the new deterance motto for the 21st century will be "Mutually Assured Economic Devestation"
[12:32] (dank) hazaa
[12:32] (thebarry) anyone here have a samsung sync?
[12:32] (moneyman) i do
[12:32] (thebarry) srsly?
[12:32] (moneyman) ya
[12:32] (thebarry) can you use the bluetooth to transfer music?
[12:33] (ke) lol
[12:33] (moneyman) yah, what kind of adapter do you have
[12:33] (thebarry) mine didnt come with a usb cord
[12:33] (dank) you can cock the cocks in the cocks with the cocks cocks cocks cocks
[12:33] (starly) dank, you are devoiced (Requested by SonOfSpam )
[12:33] (SonOfSpam) shaddap
[12:33] (thebarry) fereal
[12:33] (ke) smd
[12:33] (thebarry) no usb cord on this one, and it's a custom cord
[12:33] (thebarry) :(
[12:33] (USmotto) Eeyore, Iran has absolutely zero chance of attacking Israel victoriosly. Would you agree?
[12:33] (moneyman) mine is a Free Speech adaptor, and i transfer mp3s a lo
[12:33] * SonOfSpam peers at ke
[12:34] (ke) i hope iran blows israel out of the fucking water
[12:34] (thebarry) moneyman huh?
[12:34] (moneyman) Al Sharpton was talking about iran today
[12:34] (starly) ke, you are devoiced (Requested by SonOfSpam )
[12:34] (SonOfSpam) They aren't in water.
[12:34] (SonOfSpam) go away
[12:34] (thebarry) i was going to go buy a bluetooth usb thing for my computer
[12:34] (thebarry) and try to transfer files that way
[12:34] (moneyman) yah thats what i use
[12:35] (thebarry) rather than buy the proprietary usb cord shit
[12:35] (scrim) morning
[12:35] (moneyman) sup scrim
[12:35] (thebarry) o ok
[12:35] -FreeTrad3:#politics- ke has been Shitlisted for Bigotry!
[12:35] (moneyman) you play rugby?
[12:35] (thebarry) yah cause the bluetooth usb thing is like 10$
[12:35] (thebarry) http://www.buyextras.com/usbcl1tr330f.html?gclid=CJXU1-SVmIsCFRkeYAod3xbPTQ
[12:35] (scrim) chillin
[12:35] (FreeTrad3) Iran absolutely does have a chance of attackign Israeli Victoriously..
[12:36] (starly) ke_, you are devoiced (Requested by SonOfSpam )
[12:36] * austin___ is now known as zpmgz
[12:36] (FreeTrad3) NEver underestimate the enemy
[12:36] (moneyman) once i took it up the ass from a black inmate his dick was bigger than mine
[12:36] (starly) moneyman, you are devoiced (Requested by SonOfSpam )
[12:36] (starly) scrim, you are devoiced (Requested by SonOfSpam )
[12:36] (SonOfSpam) The lof of ya
[12:36] -FreeTrad3:#politics- ke_ has been Shitlisted for Bigotry!
[12:36] * SonOfSpam throws a rock at the trolls.
[12:36] -moderatum:#politics- Mode +i detected - discarded all pending +v modes.
[12:37] (FreeTrad3) is .love a domain ?
[12:37] (FreeTrad3) Or is this guy on the inside of efnet ?
[12:37] (SonOfSpam) Not a real one.
[12:37] (FreeTrad3) So hes someone with a *line from efnet
[12:37] (FreeTrad3) Yaak you around ?
[12:37] (Yaakov) Depends. Who wants to know?
[12:38] (FreeTrad3) Yaak Your buddy does.
[12:38] (Yaakov) Oh!
[12:38] (FreeTrad3) Is .love a domain or someone on the inside of efnet
[12:38] (Yaakov) What's up?
[12:38] (Yaakov) Err... that's a server-based spoof.
[12:38] (FreeTrad3) Well besides coming in here and saying I hope Iran Blows Israel away he keeps coming back
[12:38] (FreeTrad3) Can you trace it ?
[12:39] (SonOfSpam) Not to mention the "suck my dick" comment
[12:39] (nharris) (moneyman) once i took it up the ass from a black inmate his dick was bigger than mine (--- and this
[12:39] (FreeTrad3) Because I know hes violating Efnet rules.. Unless Im very mistaken about the rules
[12:39] (Yaakov) I'll look into it.
[12:39] (FreeTrad3) Thankyou sir.
[12:39] (SonOfSpam) Yeah... bunch of people with a sudden infatuation with talking about male genitalia... speaks to their nature, I'm sure.
[12:39] (FreeTrad3) Is .spoof also serverside ?
[12:40] (nharris) back to work
[12:40] (t0tgiglz) hey ft
[12:40] (FreeTrad3) He has not done anything wrong as of yet but I need to get a new update of server domain suffixes.
[12:40] (FreeTrad3) Hey t0t! How you doing.
[12:40] (t0tgiglz) im so sick the dr is keeping out of work for the week
[12:40] (FreeTrad3) Hey you remember the question you asked me the other day, I can try to answer it if you remember it.
[12:40] (t0tgiglz) :(
[12:41] (Yaakov) All the none-real TLDs are done by servers.
[12:41] (FreeTrad3) IM sorry your not feeling weel and hope you get well soon!
[12:41] (t0tgiglz) im hoping im better in time for the wedding
[12:41] (FreeTrad3) Oh My god, Yes!
[12:41] (FreeTrad3) You do need to get better.
[12:41] (FreeTrad3) And get you to the church on time!
[12:41] (FreeTrad3) "My Fair Lady"
[12:41] (USmotto) Of course, to be victorious, you'd have to survive the retaliation...
[12:42] (t0tgiglz) oh i said i find it sad we can put animals to sleep and thats humane yet we have to watch old ppl and very sick ppl suffer and things like kovorkian does is against the law
[12:42] (FreeTrad3) [12:40] *moneyman* efnet rules? the rules are free speech idiot
[12:42] (FreeTrad3) No I dont think so... Most EFNET Server admins and maybe even the network has rules about how ops and admins and thier charges behave
[12:42] (FreeTrad3) Clearly at least a lot of servers do
[12:43] (t0tgiglz) jesus
[12:43] (FreeTrad3) and free speech doesnt include harrassing channels and Nazi type anti semitism
[12:43] (FreeTrad3) So whoever msgd me that, there is your answer and you get screwed
[12:43] (FreeTrad3) I dont care if you are an op or a admin
[12:43] (t0tgiglz) who r u talking to
[12:43] (FreeTrad3) You act like a shit Ill ban you even if it costs me by ability to get on efnet
[12:43] (t0tgiglz) lol
[12:43] (Yaakov) Ban son*
[12:43] (FreeTrad3) [12:40] *moneyman* efnet rules? the rules are free speech idiot
[12:43] (SonOfSpam) No!
[12:44] (t0tgiglz) must have him iggied
[12:44] (Yaakov) SonOfSpam: Yes!
[12:44] (USmotto) FreeTrad3, of course, to be victorious, you'd have to survive the retaliation
[12:44] (FreeTrad3) Someone with a serverside name was acting bigoted and i banned him and he rejoined.
[12:44] * SonOfSpam is now known as S0n0fSpam
[12:44] (Yaakov) And +e son
[12:44] (Yaakov) err
[12:44] (FreeTrad3) hes evading the ban
[12:44] (Yaakov) SonofSpam
[12:44] (FreeTrad3) Yaak Huh ?
[12:44] (starly) *son*!*@* is banned (Requested by S0n0fSpam )
[12:44] (S0n0fSpam) :P
[12:45] (Yaakov) Set a +e for you.
[12:45] (S0n0fSpam) I am powerless to do so.
[12:45] (FreeTrad3) for me ?
[12:45] * S0n0fSpam weeps
[12:45] (Yaakov) I always knew you were weak.
[12:45] (Yaakov) FreeTrad3: No.
[12:45] (S0n0fSpam) hehehe
[12:45] (Yaakov) For SonofSpam
[12:45] (FreeTrad3) Se msg yaak
[12:46] (FreeTrad3) Here they come
[12:46] (FreeTrad3) Oh boy
[12:46] (S0n0fSpam) he's switched it already
[12:46] (Yaakov) Sure, the person is in here.
[12:46] (FreeTrad3) See then an attack..
[12:46] (FreeTrad3) Of course they always have a spy on channel.
[12:46] * S0n0fSpam is now known as SonOfSpam
[12:47] (SonOfSpam) meh... same ol' same ol'
[12:47] (FreeTrad3) Lets cool off for awhile.
[12:47] (SonOfSpam) They'll either get bored or their mommies will get home and make them do their chores.
[12:47] (FreeTrad3) We can go + i for awhile and still have a conversation.
[12:48] (FreeTrad3) ANyway t0t what was that question you had for me or is it irrelevant now you asked me on cannel I forgot.
[12:48] (SonOfSpam) Timmy, you get off that computer right now and take out the garbage! But mom!
[12:48] (FreeTrad3) It was one which was goign to require a complex philosophical answer though.
[12:48] (FreeTrad3) I do remember that.
[12:48] (FreeTrad3) :)
[12:49] (t0tgiglz) i just said it up above
[12:49] (t0tgiglz) but its not a big deal
[12:50] (FreeTrad3) Let me looki
[12:51] (FreeTrad3) [12:43] (t0tgiglz) oh i said i find it sad we can put animals to sleep and thats humane yet we have to watch old ppl and very sick ppl suffer and things like kovorkian does is against the law
[12:51] (FreeTrad3) Well.
[12:51] (FreeTrad3) Here is my opinion.
[12:51] (FreeTrad3) I think a person should have the right to commit suicide but also should be stopped if caught ;)
[12:51] (FreeTrad3) And there is a reason for that.
[12:51] (FreeTrad3) A person who really wants to commit suicide will.
[12:51] (FreeTrad3) A lot of people will try and really are seeking help
[12:52] (USmotto) A right that should be stopped if winessed...
[12:52] (polizei) Why not create an environment that doesn't cause people to want to attempt suicide in order to get help?
[12:52] (FreeTrad3) THe problem with kervorkian making it an obsession is that his motives and ability to judge when a person is depressed psychologically and can be cured with medicine, or when a person is crying out for help, He cant make that judgement.
[12:52] (SonOfSpam) USmotto... just think of it as auto-bortion.
[12:53] (USmotto) ?
[12:53] (FreeTrad3) I also feel in fact i know some people are obssessed with perfection and death is a solution to eliminate the imperfect.
[12:53] (TheTailor) polizei, sure, how?
[12:53] (FreeTrad3) There is a society called the hemlock society.
[12:53] (TheTailor) FT, my Dad was in that
[12:53] (t0tgiglz) i see what youre saying
[12:53] (FreeTrad3) THe head of it my sister who is an oncology (Cancer) nurse happened to meet him.
[12:53] (FreeTrad3) They advocate suicides.
[12:53] (SonOfSpam) bbiab
[12:53] (t0tgiglz) bye spami
[12:54] (FreeTrad3) Ok, His wife came into my sisters hospital with breast cancer.
[12:54] (TheTailor) polizei, how do you create an environment that staves off depression?
[12:54] (polizei) Well it would require massive reform.
[12:54] (polizei) I wasn't offering a full plan to do it, but rather asking why not go that route.
[12:54] (FreeTrad3) And my sister watched the interaction and it becamse clear to her that he couldnt deal with her imperfections. Her loss of breasts or a breast or potential loss of a breast so he just divorced her and wouldnt deal with her imperfection.
[12:54] (USmotto) Suicide is a long-term solution to a short-term problem
[12:54] (TheTailor) polizei, I think people can become depressed in any environment.
[12:55] (FreeTrad3) So sick people are attracted to the suicide buisness.
[12:55] (FreeTrad3) And I am against doctors doing it because their lifes pledge is to heal not kill.
[12:55] (t0tgiglz) yeah
[12:55] (polizei) TheTailor: Sure, but probably due to inferior genetics, so their suicide should be allowed
[12:55] (FreeTrad3) I think a person who wants to commit suicide And i may do it someday must take the responsibility upon him or herself.
[12:55] (t0tgiglz) but theres a fine line
[12:55] (FreeTrad3) And if I ever I will kill myslef.
[12:55] (FreeTrad3) I will do it myself
[12:55] (FreeTrad3) I wont let anyone help me..
[12:56] (t0tgiglz) i do see what youre saying
[12:56] (USmotto) holy crap
[12:56] (FreeTrad3) I mean if I cant move or something I may ask someone to give me the drugs but I dont want it to be a doctor And I dont want to get anyone else in trouble and I dont want professional killers.
[12:57] (t0tgiglz) yeah
[12:57] (FreeTrad3) Something like 50% or more of even disease related suicide desire is a phase people go through when they hear they have cancer, and they get depressed.
[12:57] (TheTailor) polizei, I'm also not sure genetics is the sole factor, depression can be brought on by so many things.
[12:57] (USmotto) As a Christian, I think you're out there
[12:57] (FreeTrad3) With Help with depression and with a good oncology staff they can make death almost painless. And sometimes the dying process is very meaningful to the family of the person.
[12:57] (polizei) TheTailor: well I strongly disagree that people can become depressed in any environment, at least not to the point that they'd commit suicide
[12:57] (USmotto) You need to learn about the Creator
[12:57] (polizei) TheTailor: Suicide didn't really seem an issue in tribal or primitive cultures
[12:58] (FreeTrad3) And sometimes the bonding and the healing which takes place while a family member dies is remarkable. So I understand both sides.. Within the parameters I set up for my personal opinion.
[12:58] (TheTailor) polizei, you can be very wealthy, have the best of everything, and then lose your loving wife to cancer, that might bring you into depression and suicide.
[12:58] (FreeTrad3) I may well kill myself some day..
[12:58] (FreeTrad3) But It wont be a fast or easy decision.
[12:58] (FreeTrad3) So basically thats my opinon.
[12:58] (FreeTrad3) My answer
[12:59] (polizei) TheTailor: suicide over the death of a friend or family member is just pathetic, and I don't think the world needs people that petty
[12:59] (USmotto) Even if you're physically healthy?
[12:59] (TheTailor) polizei, how would you know about tribal or primative culture suicide rates? There aren't any records.
[12:59] (polizei) TheTailor: Well by that argument, how do we know anything about tribal or primitive cultures?
[13:00] (polizei) Maybe we should stop promoting such an unhealthy attitude towards death and loss that people feel so compelled to kill themselves when someone they know dies.
[13:01] (USmotto) How often does that happen?
[13:01] (polizei) Does what happen
[13:02] (FreeTrad3) Lets take this example.
[13:02] (USmotto) Where people kill themselves because someone they know dies?
[13:02] (FreeTrad3) Say I am 64 when my life insurance expires.
[13:02] (FreeTrad3) And mine covers suicide.
[13:02] (polizei) USmotto: I don't know, I was replying to what TheTailor said
[13:02] (TheTailor) polizei, we don't know a lot about primative cultures, that's what I was telling you.
[13:02] (polizei) It wasn't my example, I was just working with what I was given
[13:02] (polizei) TheTailor: That is wrong
[13:03] (FreeTrad3) If I knew I was going to die in 6 months or a year, I might decide for my family it would be a better thing to make thier life easier if I cut 6 months of my life.. But of course that would be a very serious question to examine.
[13:03] (bun-bun) FT: and open to chance too...
[13:03] (USmotto) polizei, stupid me. Getting in on an already in-progress conversation...my apologies
[13:03] (polizei) TheTailor: just because a culture itself doesn't keep a written record doesn't mean there isn't a written record. Observers can document them
[13:03] (bun-bun) 6-12 month limits are just estimates.. i know people who have beaten the odds
[13:03] (bun-bun) wouldn't be an easy decision
[13:03] (TheTailor) polizei, well you certainly don't know their suicide rates. By the way, I'm with you on this, death isn't any big deal to me ...
[13:04] (polizei) It's an unavoidable fact of life, the sooner people grasp that, the better
[13:04] (USmotto) Death is the end of the test, and you'll be Judged on your results
[13:04] (FreeTrad3) Yep, Ok I have to go, I hope flooders dont bother you guys
[13:04] (FreeTrad3) Cya all
[13:05] (TheTailor) See ya boss
[13:05] (TheTailor) What flooders
[13:05] (FreeTrad3) Before I go, keep this in mind..
[13:05] (FreeTrad3) I am an atheist..
[13:05] (FreeTrad3) And that does impact my decision on suicide.
[13:05] (bun-bun) TT's here
[13:05] (TheTailor) You spelled alien wrong again
[13:05] (bun-bun) :)
[13:05] (FreeTrad3) Though I have no desire at all to die.
[13:06] (JupaSaur) wow. bush really is hurting for support and creditabilty. now he is citing bloggers to back him up
[13:06] (USmotto) Over 80% of America is Christian
[13:06] (bun-bun) how about alien/fuzzy rabbit/athiests?
[13:06] (FreeTrad3) And I would never try to harm my children by killing myself even if I wanted to die.
[13:06] (TheTailor) JupaSaur, Bush couldn't care less, he's in for the duration and nothing will change that.
[13:06] (FreeTrad3) My point about being atheist is I have no moral prohibition to do it other than if it harms someone else like my kids or even my parents.
[13:06] (FreeTrad3) I dont believe in punishment, heaven or hell.
[13:07] (USmotto) Christianity has been good for America
[13:07] (FreeTrad3) So you know it makes it a lot easier a decision for me than it might be for others.
[13:07] (FreeTrad3) Cya guys.
[13:07] (JupaSaur) TheTailor maybe and maybe not. now a repbulican, chuck hagel (r. neb.) is suggesting bush might be impeached
[13:07] (USmotto) take care
[13:08] (TheTailor) JupaSaur, Hagel is a fruitcake and I doubt he will survive the next election. But that really doesn't matter, Bush isn't going to be impeached.
[13:08] (TheTailor) JupaSaur, remember, Hagel thinks he can become president.
[13:08] (JupaSaur) shrug
[13:09] (SweetLeaf) Hagel looks like he runs the Dallas household
[13:09] (TheTailor) Dallas?
[13:09] (JupaSaur) so do h clinton, b obama, j mccain, guiliani, etc etc etc
[13:09] (SweetLeaf) who shot jr
[13:09] (JupaSaur) lol
[13:09] (SweetLeaf) that stupid show
[13:09] (TheTailor) ohh, heh
[13:09] (SweetLeaf) Jock
[13:09] (SweetLeaf) something
[13:09] (SweetLeaf) he died
[13:10] (SweetLeaf) anyways hagel is a putz
[13:10] (TheTailor) JupaSaur, all that shit Hagel is spouting is just posturing for the upcoming election, but he isn't going to make it.
[13:10] (JupaSaur) i really do not care to see any of the people running now for pres make it. although ron paul seems like the best of the pack but he likely will not get nominatied
[13:10] (SweetLeaf) I hope Thompson gets in
[13:11] (SweetLeaf) I agree more with him than disagree
[13:11] (JupaSaur) hmmm
[13:12] (JupaSaur) well, overall, i think ron paul comes closetest to what i consider should be
[13:14] (USmotto) Paul would be better than what we have
[13:14] (USmotto) Paul is more conservative than what we have now
[13:15] (USmotto) Maybe Paul/Buchanan
[13:15] (USmotto) he he
[13:22] * Lupine calmly erects a huge 275' x 213' billboard "Elect Jeb Bush, Perminent Disaster Response Tzar"
[13:32] (L0c0) channel gone quiet?
[13:37] (td) I like the change
[13:37] (Harsen) Lets bomb Irna
[13:37] (Harsen) Iran
[13:39] (astrodog) Hars: Now?
[13:39] (astrodog) Why?
[13:39] (td) MADISON, Wis. - Sex offenders being held at a state facility are demanding their pay be restored from $2 per hour to the minimum wage, which they had received until recently.
[13:39] (Harsen) because i agreed with bombing them for the last 2ish years?
[13:39] (Harsen) This is just ANOTHER reason
[13:39] (td) If these sex offenders do good work I see no reason why they shouldnt get min wage
[13:39] (astrodog) Hars: Yeah... but now isn't exactly an ideal time to do it...
[13:39] (Harsen) ok wait til they're returned
[13:39] (Harsen) and then bomb them
[13:40] (td) well I guess they have to hold onto them for good now
[13:40] (td) with that kind of thinking
[13:40] (astrodog) Hars: I'd wait until we can move some troops to the Iranian border first.
[13:41] (td) I think its great that the british marines were on TV, I felt better knowing they are allowed fresh clothing and food and water
[13:42] (td) looked like they got more food than they could handle
[13:42] (Harsen) I think you actually work for Iran.
[13:42] (Harsen) Your job is to sit on internet chatrooms and shill for them
[13:43] (L0c0) sure, lets bomb Iran
[13:43] (L0c0) then what
[13:43] (td) I mean, clearly its against the geneva convention, but we learned that anyone can just change their interpretations of the geneva conventions
[13:43] (L0c0) deal with a possible refugee situation
[13:43] (L0c0) retaliation against our troops by iran and their agents in iraq?
[13:44] (L0c0) further piss off the people of the middle east
[13:44] (L0c0) give more fodder for jihadists to use in their recruitment of more terrorrists
[13:44] (L0c0) further put americans at risk
[13:44] (L0c0) yay war!
[13:45] (L0c0) that's the kind of act first, think second mindset that my students (7th graders) have
[13:45] (ivy^) it's not clear to me that war encourages terrorists in the long term...in fact, it may have quite the opposite effect by clearly establishing consequences to the testosterone driven propaganda of the imams lurking in safety in their mosques
[13:46] (L0c0) i'd expect better from what i'd assume to be reasonably intelligent adults
[13:46] (ivy^) don't dis folks, loc :)
[13:47] (ivy^) sentences have all kinds of functions - some are just venting
[13:47] (tnzr) http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/03/28/btsc.perry.iraq/index.html
[13:49] (L0c0) that story doesn't mention that it was his own bodyguards that were in on the bombing
[13:49] (L0c0) if the deputy PM isn't safe...
[13:52] (ivy^) from his own bodyguards...
[13:52] (ivy^) but there's always the possibility that this is not the general state of affairs
[13:52] (td) WASHINGTON - To back up his point that pulling out of Iraq would be a disaster, President Bush has quoted opinions from the secretary of defense, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the top U.S. general in Iraq — and now, two bloggers from Baghdad.
[13:52] (td) Bush has Iraqi bloggers on his side now
[13:52] (td) woohoo
[13:53] (td) thats a sign of progress
[13:53] (td) (I wonder how much they are paid)
[13:53] (ivy^) in a world of what? 6 billion people? there's always someone on everyone's side :)
[13:53] (ivy^) no matter how bizarre
[13:53] (tnzr) speaking of precedents.. I guess Bloggers are a valid source for information now
[13:53] (td) no they arent
[13:54] (ivy^) bloggers may be a source of information - validity has to be determined on a case by case basis
[13:56] (KoBushi) though the popularity of blogs can give some indication about opinions
[13:58] (td) how can you gauge popularity
[13:58] (gopp) td how can you not
[13:59] (KoBushi) td I don't understand the question
[14:00] (SweetLeaf) Iran is playing games why would they release the woman and not the men?? She is a soldier just like them
[14:01] (KoBushi) SweetLeaf because she's just a woman
[14:01] (KoBushi) there is no way the Iranians take her seriously as a soldier
[14:02] (SweetLeaf) They are playing games the brits should say we dont want just her we want them all
[14:02] (SweetLeaf) we want all our soldiers
[14:02] (KoBushi) well they're not going to turn getting her back down
[14:02] (SweetLeaf) there is no gender give um back
[14:02] (ivy^) any nation that sends a group of soldiers into war waving guns and shooting at random with the expectation that Allah will guide the bullets should treat a trained british woman soldier as a soldier :)
[14:03] (KoBushi) ivy^ why?
[14:03] (SweetLeaf) They know they can take soldiers like that at will and nothing will happen
[14:03] (SweetLeaf) never does
[14:03] (ivy^) because compared to them, she is a soldier
[14:03] (SweetLeaf) maybe its time
[14:03] (KoBushi) ivy^ didn't do her much good did it?
[14:03] (ivy^) didn't do her harm either :)
[14:04] (KoBushi) being a prisoner of the Iranians isn't harm?
[14:04] (SweetLeaf) she should throw that scarf at them
[14:04] (SweetLeaf) let them beat her
[14:04] (SweetLeaf) let the world see
[14:04] (ivy^) you're sequencing from words at random, ko
[14:04] (ivy^) there should be a name for that ....
[14:04] (SweetLeaf) tak your rag and stuff it up your ass she should say
[14:04] (KoBushi) ivy^ no, I'm not
[14:04] (ivy^) oh yes....
[14:04] (ivy^) "off the wall"!
[14:04] (KoBushi) I'm responding to what you say
[14:05] (KoBushi) The point is, they have no reason to see her as a soldier
[14:05] (KoBushi) she didn't fight them, clearly
[14:05] (SweetLeaf) I wonder if she smokes or did they force her
[14:05] (KoBushi) she's just a female wearing simular clothes to the UK soldiers
[14:05] (SweetLeaf) she did not look natural
[14:06] (SweetLeaf) ivy you have to remember women are stock to them
[14:06] (KoBushi) ivy^ what reason do they have to change thier cultural perspective and see her as an equal soldier?
[14:06] * DeLimmer is now known as del_away
[14:07] (KoBushi) SweetLeaf my point exactly, and there is no reason for them to change that viewpoint in this instance
[14:07] (SweetLeaf) they live in the stone age
[14:07] (ivy^) objectivity
[14:07] (L0c0) WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush on Wednesday withdrew the ambassadorial nomination of businessman Sam Fox after Democrats denounced Fox for giving money to a controversial conservative group that undermined Sen. John Kerry's 2004 presidential campaign.
[14:07] (L0c0) But one of Fox's strongest backers, Sen. Kit Bond, R-Missouri, said it was "disappointing that a capable and qualified candidate with bipartisan support has become a victim of a political vendetta."
[14:07] (L0c0) is that called karma?
[14:07] (SweetLeaf) KO why didnt they just leave her in the boat
[14:07] (ivy^) iron age, I think :)
[14:07] (L0c0) what goes around....comes around
[14:07] (L0c0) ?
[14:07] (KoBushi) SweetLeaf dunno, wonder how many times she has been raped?
[14:08] (tnzr) how do you know they arent treating her with dignity and respect
[14:08] (KoBushi) tnzr perhaps they are, but I find it highly unlikely
[14:08] (ivy^) which state is fox from?
[14:09] (SweetLeaf) Fred is my man if he runs
[14:09] (ivy^) born in Desloge MO :) amazing, then, that Kit Bond would stand up for him :)
[14:09] (gopp) koko yea
[14:09] (gopp) who is fred SweetLeaf
[14:10] (gopp) fred flinstone
[14:10] (observer) fred has my support or ron paul
[14:10] (SweetLeaf) thompson
[14:11] (gopp) fred thompson
[14:11] (SweetLeaf) I think Thompson would be a kick ass contender
[14:11] (gopp) he is a libertrain
[14:11] (gopp) SweetLeaf what are his postion
[14:11] (SweetLeaf) right wing
[14:11] (SweetLeaf) I dont agree with him on everything but he is a straight talker
[14:12] (SweetLeaf) He dont bullshit
[14:12] (observer) gopp: http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Fred_Thompson.htm
[14:12] (SweetLeaf) I wish he would get in but money is a problem
[14:12] (JegaPRIME) Fred Thompson has a powerful personality. He's a natural 'strong man'. I have no idea about his politics, though.
[14:12] (SweetLeaf) as usual
[14:12] (SweetLeaf) money gets you elected
[14:12] * _vo1d is now known as vo1d
[14:13] (gopp) Voted NO on 1998 GOP budget. (May 1997)
[14:14] (gopp) Voted YES on restricting rules on personal bankruptcy. (Jul 2001)
[14:14] (SweetLeaf) Look at how some of the others voted in 1997
[14:15] (KoBushi) booo to bankruptcy law changes
[14:15] (SweetLeaf) gopp I dont like politicians but he is the best of the lot I have heard of so far and he is not even running
[14:15] (gopp) Voted NO on allowing patients to sue HMOs & collect punitive damages. (Jun 2001)
[14:16] (gopp) SweetLeaf oh
[14:16] (gopp) but then again
[14:16] (gopp) Voted YES on funding GOP version of Medicare prescription drug benefit. (Apr 2001)
[14:16] (SweetLeaf) read the whole bill had to be a reason
[14:17] (gopp) sweet
[14:17] (gopp) Voted YES on repealing Clinton's ergonomic rules on repetitive stress. (Mar 2001)
[14:17] (gopp) SweetLeaf true
[14:17] (SweetLeaf) oh well
[14:17] (SweetLeaf) look up your man
[14:17] (gopp) ron paul
[14:17] (SweetLeaf) he dont have a chance either
[14:17] (ivy^) sweet, you don't like sam brownback?
[14:18] (gopp) sweet Voted YES on across-the-board spending cut. (Oct 1999)
[14:18] (SweetLeaf) I dont like politicians
[14:18] (SweetLeaf) I dont care about abortion
[14:18] (gopp) Voted NO on authorizing air strikes in Kosovo. (Mar 1999)
[14:18] (SweetLeaf) I dont care about marajuna laws
[14:18] (ivy^) among the current slate (republican) who do you prefer?
[14:19] (gopp) ron paul ivy^ slate
[14:19] (SweetLeaf) the imagration thing will never get fixed so what
[14:19] (ivy^) they care about such matters in kansas :)
[14:19] (SweetLeaf) big deal it has been here all my life
[14:19] (td) John Mccain said that westerners can walk outside of the green zone in Baghdad without fear now
[14:19] (SweetLeaf) now the rest of the country is getting illeagles and are crying about it
[14:19] (td) lol
[14:20] (td) too bad the people on the ground there say otherwise
[14:20] (ivy^) as long as a katusha rocket doesn't hit nearby :)
[14:20] (SweetLeaf) Government Programs we need more just any dimocrap
[14:20] (td) CNNs baghdad correspondant said that westerners wouldnt last 5 minutes on the streets outside the green zone
[14:21] (SweetLeaf) that guy is a leftist lib
[14:21] (SweetLeaf) hates bush
[14:21] (SweetLeaf) one o you
[14:21] (SweetLeaf) Weir
[14:21] (SweetLeaf) right
[14:21] (ivy^) if you believe mccain, go walking in the streets of baghdad :)
[14:21] (td) dude Micheal Ware is a great journalist
[14:21] (SweetLeaf) you say
[14:21] (ivy^) hey pu :)
[14:22] (puella) hey ivy
[14:22] (td) he is not anti-Bush
[14:22] (td) he doesnt agree with a pullout
[14:22] (SweetLeaf) td we talking ware
[14:22] (td) yes we are
[14:22] (SweetLeaf) he is a leftist bush hater
[14:22] (td) I dont think he hates Bush at all
[14:22] (SweetLeaf) just like the cafferty guy
[14:23] (td) cafferty hates bush, Ill give you that
[14:23] (SweetLeaf) so does ware
[14:23] (td) nice argument
[14:23] (td) because 1 guy on CNN hates bush, they all must
[14:23] (SweetLeaf) dont matter what happens there he throws his little jab in it
[14:23] (Sublimer-) lol
[14:23] (Sublimer-) cnn hates all gov.. but.. cnn really hates bush..
[14:24] (uchuff) me too
[14:24] (uchuff) shaven ) *
[14:24] (SweetLeaf) if someone says it is red he says it is blue
[14:24] (Sublimer-) the news is strat skewed to liberal bias
[14:24] (Sublimer-) heh
[14:24] (Sublimer-) sorry to tell ya
[14:24] (Sublimer-) but its true
[14:24] (td) nah
[14:24] (KoBushi) why are you sorry to tell him?
[14:24] (td) CNN has been reporting on all sorts of democrat bad stuff
[14:25] (SweetLeaf) that is why you have to look elswhere for sources of news
[14:25] (td) they ran that story about Gore's energy costs over and over
[14:25] (SweetLeaf) not just cnn
[14:25] (SweetLeaf) ny times
[14:25] (Sublimer-) people complain about foxnews being right skewed.. i mean wtf... at least the right has a damn news outlet now.. every other damn news media is skewed to the left....
[14:25] (SweetLeaf) leftist blogs
[14:25] (SweetLeaf) CNN gave clinton a beating
[14:25] (td) and ran the story on jefferson being appointed in a security position even though Pelosi spoke out about him when he was found with 90K cash
[14:25] (KoBushi) CNN's biggest anoyance is thier insistance on presenting retarded pointless stuff as national news
[14:26] (SweetLeaf) cnn is tearing pelosie a new asshole
[14:26] (SweetLeaf) hahahaha
[14:26] (Sublimer-) cnn's job is to destroy goverment.
[14:26] (Sublimer-) heh
[14:26] (Sublimer-) cnn wants to run the country.
[14:26] (KoBushi) they must have spend 20 hours on that Jailhouse Idle nonsense
[14:26] (KoBushi) spent*
[14:26] (SweetLeaf) cnn worries more about the Iraqie than a US soldier
[14:26] (Sublimer-) thats liberal bias
[14:26] (Sublimer-) :P
[14:26] (SweetLeaf) cnn thinks soldiers are borg
[14:27] (td) "the Iraqi" needs to be worried about
[14:27] (SweetLeaf) mindless robots at bush's will
[14:27] (td) although I think most people are bigoted towards Muslims now, so they dont care when they hear 100,000 dead, 2 Million displaced and countless maimed Iraqi civilians
[14:28] (td) most americans
[14:28] (SweetLeaf) I wanna know if Bush is soooooooooo Dumb how did he dupe congress and the senate into this war
[14:28] (KoBushi) td that assumes that they would have ever cared
[14:28] (ivy^) how should people react, td?
[14:28] (Sublimer-) i think our gov is a fuckin loonie bin myself... i mean.. we are probably gettin damn close to at least a military clash with iran.. and.. they don't see.. uhh the problem with leaving iraq at this time.. good grief.. iran would love for us to leave iraq.. easy time to take the fucker over.. MORE OIL FOR IRAN
[14:28] (td) People should be outraged over what has happened to Iraqi civilians since the U.S. Invasion
[14:28] (KoBushi) SweetLeaf clearly, the freemasons and illuminati helped
[14:28] (ivy^) what good would that do, td?
[14:29] (td) yeah what good would that do, after all, THEY DID 9/11
[14:29] (td) Theres no compassion for those people (the Iraqi civilians)
[14:29] (ivy^) I don't believe that, myself, but some do - apparently including you
[14:29] (td) No I dont believe that at all
[14:29] (ivy^) some have compassion, but what should they do?
[14:30] (SweetLeaf) I would be embarrassed to say I was duped into voting for this war I could not get in front of people and say that and then say vote for me and I will vote to end it now even if it is going good heh
[14:30] (ivy^) it's mostly iraqis killing iraqis and that will continue whether the US is there or not - probably get worse without the us
[14:30] (td) Recognize that the war has adversely effected millions Iraqis, and recognized that blunders of the U.S Government and U.S Military are partly to blame
[14:30] (td) millions of Iraqis i mean
[14:30] (KoBushi) SweetLeaf haha "Vote for me, I'm easily missled!"
[14:30] (Sublimer-) ivy^: its mostly thugs killing thugs.. its a small fraction of the population distrubing the masses.
[14:31] (SweetLeaf) ya vote for me I am dumber than bush
[14:31] (SweetLeaf) he had a spell on me
[14:31] (ivy^) td, I recognize all that - but the question is what to do now, given the situation
[14:31] (td) You sit here supporting "the mission" not even caring about whats happening to those people
[14:31] (SweetLeaf) ivy cut n run is the only answer let iran have it
[14:31] (SweetLeaf) heh
[14:31] (ivy^) I don't support the mission
[14:32] (ivy^) I do support letting bush have his "surge"
[14:32] (td) most here do, and are oblivious to the effects it is having
[14:32] (ivy^) I'm waiting for the next step
[14:32] (SweetLeaf) what fucking mission
[14:32] (Sublimer-) ivy^: and once we get the iraqi gov/police/army up to a certain level.. we can leave.. of course they will still be attacks here and there.. this is basically a democracy in infant stage.
[14:32] (ivy^) I'm not so optimistic, sub
[14:32] (SweetLeaf) the enemy knows there is no mission and will wait a year n a half for us to leave
[14:33] (td) No mission? interesting opinion
[14:33] (SweetLeaf) you cant have a mission when the media and our congress is telling the enemy we are comming and when and we are leaving and when how do you win
[14:34] (td) Is anyone here willing to admit that the blunders by the U.S Military and the Bush admin have made the situation way worse than it should have been
[14:34] (Sublimer-) WWII was so successful.. because of it was SECRET!
[14:34] (Sublimer-) heh
[14:34] (ivy^) apples and oranges, td
[14:34] (Sublimer-) damn the media ruins shit
[14:34] (Sublimer-) HEH
[14:34] (ivy^) is the situation now worse than under saddam?
[14:34] (td) yes
[14:34] (Sublimer-) we could never have another D-DAY
[14:34] (Sublimer-) way too many leaks
[14:35] (SweetLeaf) ww2 was not brodcast 24/7 what we were doing
[14:35] (ivy^) a lot of people wouldn't agree with you
[14:36] (td) but wether its better than Saddam or not is not even part of the equation, thats just an out
[14:36] (td) a favored talking point
[14:36] (ivy^) you seem to be reasoning that if the reason for going there was wrong, the only thing to do now is leave?
[14:36] (KoBushi) why wouldn't that make a difference?
[14:36] (KoBushi) "it doesn't matter if it's better" ... that's idiotic
[14:36] (ivy^) you were saying that things are worse now, that brings in saddam ipso facto
[14:37] (td) Because 5 years later things should be better than under Saddam, and then some
[14:37] (KoBushi) Of course it matters if it's better than before or not
[14:37] (td) the fact is its not
[14:38] (KoBushi) td you're changing the topic now
[14:38] (ivy^) maybe it takes longer than 5 years
[14:38] (td) Saddam is not a benchmark of how Iraq should be
[14:38] (ivy^) it took the west a few hundred years to sort out its religious differences
[14:38] (td) And what right does the United States government have to enforce a different style of government on the Iraqi people?
[14:39] (td) or to force I should say
[14:39] (KoBushi) td so, when confronted with the fact that it DOES matter if they were better off before vs now.. then you change your argument BACK to "well they aren't better off anyway"
[14:39] * sHice is now known as sHice|
[14:39] (astrodog) td: The ability to do so, gives us the right.
[14:39] (ivy^) it may have no right, but it may have an obligation or duty now that theyre there
[14:39] (KoBushi) And sure, one can have a debate over which scenario they are better off under... but your claim was that it doesn't matter
[14:40] (KoBushi) It didn't take you long to abandon that position
[14:40] (td) And this isnt much of a democracy, they are ruled by guys who left Iraq for Iran years ago
[14:40] (ivy^) just because a man is a poor father doesn't mean he has no parental obligations
[14:40] (td) would you vote for an american president who had been living in France for 20 years?
[14:41] (td) and only came back to run in an election
[14:41] (ivy^) just because the US is a poor foster of democracy doesn't mean it doesn't have an obligation
[14:41] (KoBushi) td so then... the prefered action would have been to do nothing, but just wish REALLY hard that thier lives would improve under continued Saddam rulership?... I mean because of all your compasion.
[14:41] (Yaakov) IVY
[14:41] (td) No, I supported removing Saddam, which they did quickly and then they totally fucked up
[14:41] (KoBushi) td I might if the US had been under a dictatorship for those 20 years
[14:41] (ivy^) yaakov :)
[14:41] (KoBushi) td you act like there were SO many options
[14:42] (KoBushi) they wouldn't have established a government on thier own
[14:42] (td) do you know that for a fact?
[14:42] (KoBushi) do you doubt it?
[14:42] (ivy^) islamic principles seem to favor formation of strongman type autocratic governments
[14:43] (td) and what do they have now
[14:43] (td) politicians whose power eminates from death squads
[14:43] (KoBushi) So, I guess the US should have just captured saddam, killed his supporters, and then left?
[14:43] (ivy^) a leader has to be strong enough to putdown all those who oppose him on religious grounds - heck of a system! :)
[14:43] (td) Kobushi: yeah maybe
[14:44] (td) the U.S has done that before
[14:44] (KoBushi) td the Iraqis would be 100x worse off than they are now if that were done
[14:44] (td) you dont know that
[14:44] (TheTailor) Where has the US done that before?
[14:44] (KoBushi) but, you don't care about how well off they are, like you said, being better off or not doesn't matter
[14:45] (td) TheTailor: Latin America has a few case studies
[14:45] (Harsen) td should be pleased, American intervention in Iraq took out a longtime foe of Iran, and since hes a shill for Iran and an anti-semite
[14:45] (KoBushi) td so, you think the Iranian influences in iran wouldn't have come? Do you think the sectarian violence wouldn't have happened? c'mon that's retarded at best
[14:45] (td) Well its entirely hard to say
[14:45] (td) isnt it
[14:45] (KoBushi) no, not really
[14:45] (TheTailor) td, studies?
[14:46] (TheTailor) td, where has the US done that before?
[14:46] (td) yes, case studies, do you know what a casy study is
[14:46] (KoBushi) a chaoatic situation with even LESS order would clearly have lead to MORE chaos
[14:46] (TheTailor) Where did the US go in, capture a leader and his cronies, and leave?
[14:47] (td) TheTailor: are you not familiar with the U.S backed coups in Latin America where such things were done
[14:47] (TheTailor) Now we went in and got Noriega, but not his so called cronies.
[14:47] (KoBushi) td that's not the same thing, since in those cases, the US built up one side in a conflict/built up rebels
[14:47] (TheTailor) So Panama fits your statment half way
[14:48] (KoBushi) tottaly different from just going in, whiping out the government, and leaving
[14:48] (TheTailor) td, so tell us, where has the US gone in and done it?
[14:48] (td) how about Guatemala
[14:48] (JupaSaur) was just watching wolf blizter interviewing b obama on cnn. no wonder abc with its good morning america show monday had h clinton on and off for the entire two hours of the show in a rigged town meeting with her supporters but no other candidates on the same show. obama in this interview was cool and calm, at ease, answered questions honestly and frankly, and looked like he really has it together. next to him h clinton would look terr
[14:48] (JupaSaur) that when people would see h clinton and b obama side by side, they would vote for b obama rather than h clinton. clinton cannot stand that sort of face to face and side by side comparion with other candidates
[14:48] (TheTailor) Not a study of it... WHERE exactly?
[14:48] (TheTailor) What about Guatemala?
[14:49] (TheTailor) Did we capture a leader, and his cronies there, and leave?
[14:49] (observer) jupa: thats about the only thing i like about obama, the way he presents himself :p
[14:49] (JupaSaur) obama does present himself well
[14:50] (JupaSaur) h clinton is a politcal prostitute and it is so obvious when you see and listen to her
[14:50] (td) well the CIA did go in and help overthrow the leader, then they left
[14:50] (td) country was ok
[14:50] (TheTailor) td, oh, so we didn't do as you said then.
[14:51] (td) Oh im not fully informed as to the details but Im trying to refresh myself here on them
[14:51] (TheTailor) td, see, it's that type of stupid t rolling that gets you devoiced, so stop it.
[14:51] (rightooo) back x)
[14:52] (TheTailor) Here rightooo, learn something.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU
[14:53] (td) Well its not exactly trolling, maybe Guatemala doesnt fit exactly
[14:53] (rightooo) TheTailor ...have u thought ?
[14:54] (rightooo) about what i was saying to you?
[14:54] (td) but it shows that the U.S. was able to get rid of leaders it did not like and the country didnt go to shit
[14:54] (TheTailor) td, it is trolling, you spew falsehoods with the intent to incite.
[14:54] (KoBushi) td no, most of the time it didn't work very well... and when they did get rid of the leaders it was by propping up a rebel group which then assumed power.
[14:55] (KoBushi) td tottaly different from just whiping out the governance, and leaving
[14:56] (rightooo) TheTailor ...what an coincidence ...a friend of mine showed that doucmentary to me tonight ..just a lil bit....i asked him what he thinks ...he sadi he soesnt know really ..because its a patt ...50 percent scientists say its not human made earth warming...50% say its human made earth warming
[14:57] (rightooo) TheTailor ... and how do u come to the conclusion i would be a climate activist? LOL
[14:57] (Lupine) rightooo: scientific truth is not dictated nor determined as a democracy
[14:57] (rightooo) TheTailor ... oh i can think ..because u know im thoughtful and concerned x)
[14:57] (FreeTrad3) tHATS WHAT I call speed workign... Running to get 10 things done in 5 minutes.
[14:57] (FreeTrad3) Eat, Scan 3 checks, make an online tax payment and take my medication.
[14:58] (FreeTrad3) I like it when things go fast as long as I have everything at my disposal to do it.
[14:58] (rightooo) TheTailor ...before u want to preach anything to me ...be informed what my position is
[15:00] (rightooo) TheTailor ..i wont accept u branding me as "leftist" "socialist" "communist" .-..doesnt work on me
[15:00] (FreeTrad3) rightooo, You Trotskyite!
[15:00] (rightooo) Freetrad3 .. lol
[15:00] (rightooo) x)
[15:00] (FreeTrad3) ]haha
[15:01] (FreeTrad3) well, I am happy, IBM sent me a new battery because mine was degrading in performance.
[15:01] (observer) haha my comment got deleted on giulianis official youtube vid
[15:01] (observer) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5oXeMgY5Is
[15:01] (TheTailor) rightooo, you can talk to me later about it if you wish, I'm working now. But, I didn't brand you as a "leftist" "socialist" "communist".
[15:01] (observer) anyways therse rudys Proven Record
[15:01] (rightooo) TheTailor ... ok
[15:02] (rightooo) TheTailor ..i wont be later on tonight ..but we will talk anothe time ok
[15:02] (FreeTrad3) And My Expensive blue tooth headset wasnt workign right, and so what do they do ? DIdnt even ask me for a reciept and I bought it through a 3rd party they send me a new one and then allow me to send my back.. based on trust.. PRetty cool Though I bet embedded in the url was the code that I purchased it or something for the warranty link
[15:03] (FreeTrad3) Expensive damn headset too.
[15:03] (FreeTrad3) So I have a brand new one sitting upstairs today.
[15:03] (SweetLeaf) There a new congress in town
[15:03] (FreeTrad3) Havent swapped it out yet, tommorrow it will be time to send those two items back (The old ones before I get charged for them) ;)
[15:03] (pilgrim`) we need a new town
[15:05] (FreeTrad3) Well anyway socialist, trotskyite, and so on aside.. Buchanite.. Whats the topic or discussion about ?
[15:05] (FreeTrad3) I dont have much time.. SO I have to speed think and type.
[15:05] (FreeTrad3) ;)
[15:06] (FreeTrad3) Its almost time for Brit.
[15:08] (cyberfrg) i bet all these earthquakes are because of global warming ... when are people going to wake up?!?! (/sarcasm)
[15:08] (FreeTrad3) Yep!~ And the snowpack on Mt Rainer..
[15:08] (FreeTrad3) Did you hear about that ?
[15:09] (Aufk|aren) Word to your mums.
[15:09] (FreeTrad3) A study was done on the dissapearing snow pack on mt Rainer.. The hardest snow and largest pack in history (Recorded) was like in 1949 or something.
[15:09] (observer) this whole iran/uk thing reminds me of the israel/lebanon war awhile back, kidnapped soldiers as a pretext to war
[15:09] (FreeTrad3) So in other words it snowed about 10 years worth in one year.
[15:09] (FreeTrad3) they start the study the next year.
[15:09] (Aufk|aren) observer: Pretext? Has Britain declared war on Iran yet?
[15:09] (observer) not yet
[15:10] (FreeTrad3) And it happens that based on the next year thru the end of the study which may have been 1980 or something they snowpack was down.
[15:10] (Aufk|aren) observer: Britain didn't force the Iranians to kidnap our troops.
[15:10] (td) Aufklaren: those marines sure looked like they were eating well didnt they
[15:10] (FreeTrad3) They used that as evidence of global warming.
[15:10] (Aufk|aren) observer: Britain wont declare war on Iran, either.
[15:10] (td) Aufklaren: why not
[15:10] (FreeTrad3) Well A scientist dug it up and included the year before the study and took off a year and the snowpack was the avg
[15:10] (FreeTrad3) or higher
[15:10] (FreeTrad3) He was fired
[15:10] (observer) Aufk|aren: it reminds me of the israel/lebanon situation
[15:10] (td) this Hostage taking is a flagrant violation of everything we westerners believe in
[15:10] (td) why not go to war over it
[15:10] (Aufk|aren) td: It looks like at the moment the video was taken they were eating naan bread and some sort of insubstantial curry.
[15:11] (FreeTrad3) Because he questioned the orthodoxy of newthing when it comes to global warming
[15:11] (Aufk|aren) td: Because it probably isn't in the interests of Britain in the long run.
[15:11] (td) Aufklaren: I examined the tape and it looks like some sort of fresh vegetables
[15:11] (observer) and were the borders actually resolved after iran/iraq war?
[15:11] (FreeTrad3) WHen People are being fired for proving scientists wrong you have to become more skeptical...
[15:11] (FreeTrad3) What he did was honest.
[15:11] (td) along with some sort of bakery item
[15:11] (Aufk|aren) td: We ought to strongly consider military action, but declaring all-out war on Iran would be ill advised.
[15:11] (Lupine) "Likewise be all manner of beasts, when they be brought into the field and cried havoke, then every man to take his part."
[15:12] (FreeTrad3) He just pointed out that they left out the year before which was the largest snowpack in recorded history of it
[15:12] (Aufk|aren) td: is that what the Iranian state press said? :)
[15:12] (Lupine) Aufk|aren: i believe WWII was and will be, the last all-out war for the western powers
[15:12] (td) I havent checked them lately, but I will check in with the office
[15:12] (FreeTrad3) Its getting to a point of where its not even amusing if it ever was.. Its getting sick and orwellian.
[15:12] (observer) what about the iraq/iran war? does anyone know if the borders remained the same afterwards?
[15:12] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: I think you'rem ostly rightly correct. The next war between major powers would quickly descend into a nuclear exchange.
[15:12] (FreeTrad3) THey are shutting out dissenters in the scientific world.. And in political debate.
[15:13] (tnzr) http://www.flynetonline.com/2007/03/rambos-last-mission-in-thailand.html (-- rofl
[15:13] (Aufk|aren) most likely&
[15:13] (FreeTrad3) And worse, not just shutting them up but firing them
[15:13] (Aufk|aren) Wow.
[15:13] (FreeTrad3) or intimidating them
[15:13] (Aufk|aren) Most likely*
[15:13] (Aufk|aren) I'm drunk. Just watched England against Andorra. Forigve the spelling mistakes.
[15:13] (FreeTrad3) Lupine, last conventional war of its size..
[15:13] (FreeTrad3) I see a large war in the future with Iran though. But it wont be no ww2
[15:14] (td) King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia says that the U.S. in Iraq is a "illegitimate foreign occupation" today
[15:14] (FreeTrad3) But the assymetrical warfare will in ways be harder to combat.
[15:14] (FreeTrad3) Already is.
[15:14] (CGI564) but the Saudis are our friends! or..
[15:14] (Aufk|aren) FT: you're right, and that's because no one will come to the iad of Iran.
[15:14] (FreeTrad3) td and he doesnt want us to go.
[15:14] (Aufk|aren) FT: aid*
[15:14] (FreeTrad3) So there you are, thats called middle east politics
[15:14] (FreeTrad3) welcome to it
[15:14] (CGI564) true, different audiences are told diametrically opposite things in the Arab world.
[15:14] (FreeTrad3) Auf, Nope Not even Syria I bet..
[15:15] (FreeTrad3) Syria is bad but they arent stupid
[15:15] (Aufk|aren) The Saudis need to appease the Islamists, just like Egypt. Any Saudi statements ought to therefore be considered in that light.
[15:15] (RiverRat) FreeTrad3: Is that really an unbiased topic? I'm all for wishing anyone w/ cancer well but saying WE love you may be a stretch.
[15:15] (FreeTrad3) they are not going to cast thier lot with Iran in a war.
[15:15] (FreeTrad3) No it isnt, Because I love him
[15:15] (FreeTrad3) And many of his here love him.
[15:15] (t0tgiglz) rofl oh give me a break
[15:15] (FreeTrad3) Hes a great guy.
[15:15] (Aufk|aren) FT: Syria's relationship with Iran is one of convenience. Ideologically and religiously they're different. Syria's government is Alawite, and Iran's is Shia.
[15:15] (t0tgiglz) river thats being anal
[15:15] (FreeTrad3) A lot of people who are oin the opposite side of politics love him
[15:15] (t0tgiglz) i see nothing wrong with the topic
[15:15] (FreeTrad3) I mean that sincerely
[15:16] (FreeTrad3) this guy was considered a gentlemen above all else politics aside.
[15:16] (td) I dont understand how King Abdullah can say these kinds of things
[15:16] (CGI564) Auf: the Alawi are Shi'a, of a sort.
[15:16] (RiverRat) FreeTrad3: Well I respectfully disagree.
[15:16] (Aufk|aren) CGI564: It's irrelevant. Heresy is heresy.
[15:16] (td) If anyone wants to read the article, http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070328/ap_on_re_mi_ea/arab_summit_11
[15:16] (FreeTrad3) Like one lefty said, When asked jokingly would he vote for him, He said I would vote for him as kind human being, but not politically
[15:16] (FreeTrad3) hehe
[15:17] (FreeTrad3) Thats how much this guy is respected by people who disagree with him who know him.
[15:17] (CGI564) Auf: well, not really. Shi'a is Shi'a. There are 7er Shia, 11, 12, different sorts. None are Sunni.
[15:17] (FreeTrad3) But the topic is two days old
[15:17] (FreeTrad3) and that does mean I should change it.
[15:17] (WyldOcsar) thanks td for posting the article
[15:17] (CGI564) all recognize Ali as legitimate heir to Muhammed
[15:18] * FreeTrad3 changes topic to 'Iran Let those British Soilders go or Else well Send you back to the 10th century, Oh wait you are in the 10th'
[15:18] (FreeTrad3) Kaye!!!
[15:18] (Aufk|aren) CGI564: Yes, really. The heretics of a particular sect tend to be hated more than the outright religious opposition. Iran and Syria have no religious or ideological ties that bind, and that's undeniable.
[15:18] (kaye) howdy ::)
[15:18] (FreeTrad3) No thats now kaye.
[15:18] (KoBushi) CGI564 there couldn't be a legitimate heir, becaue Muhammed was supposed to be the last prohpet, how could anyone fill a prophet's shoes?
[15:18] (FreeTrad3) Is that you ?
[15:18] (FreeTrad3) I guess it is.
[15:18] * RiverRat is sorry he opened his big mouth.
[15:18] (kaye) yesh
[15:18] (FreeTrad3) I recognize that howdy!
[15:18] (kaye) it's a laggy me
[15:18] (FreeTrad3) How you doing ? You get my msg yesterday
[15:19] (kaye) i haven't been back on that client since i messaged you before - i'll go back and check
[15:19] (kaye) busybusy here!
[15:19] (FreeTrad3) Ok, No big deal, just a big howdy back at ya
[15:19] (kaye) hehe
[15:19] (PickleWrk) Here's how the reactionary left reacted to word of Snow's cancer returning: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=24933_The_Beam_in_the_Washington_Posts_Eye&only
[15:19] (FreeTrad3) Me too, Im just taking a short break.
[15:19] (CGI564) Auf: actually, not really. The fact that the 'Alawi are Shi'a makes it easier to unite in the face of a common opposition to Sunni predominance. Viz: Syrian support for Hezbollah. But sure, it's at least as much based upon expediency as religious dogma, probably more so the former by a wide margin.
[15:19] (PickleWrk) What a classy bunch of folks.
[15:21] (RiverRat) FreeTrad3: Did you hear McCain changed his stance on gay marriage? http://mike.newsvine.com/_news/2007/03/26/633799-hacking-john-mccain
[15:21] (FreeTrad3) Auf, Its clear from all signs sent so far that Syria would not commit suicide or fall on its sword for Iran. Hezbollah would but they arent syrian, they just take refuge in Syria when they are hiding.
[15:21] (gopp) hey what is john dickson FreeTrad3 who didn't want to fight brtian
[15:21] (FreeTrad3) Which way changed his stance ? I thought he was for civil unions ?
[15:22] (Aufk|aren) CGI564: It's absolutely based on expediency. The religious leadership of Iran despise the Alawites. Theirs is a relationship of convience. Were both in a position of power, they'd be slaughtering the other.
[15:22] (gopp) but wanted the help
[15:22] (FreeTrad3) John Dickson ?
[15:22] (RiverRat) FreeTrad3: But China NEEDS their oil so they are in a tuff spot.
[15:22] (gopp) FreeTrad3 was it john dick who warns canada and america
[15:22] (FreeTrad3) I dont know what you are talking about.
[15:22] (FreeTrad3) RiverRat, but China voted on the latest round of sanctions.
[15:23] (gopp) I can't recall where I got this qoute
[15:23] (gopp) "First we ought to establish our governments & take the regular form of a state-these preventive measures will show deliberation, wisdom, caution & unanimity.” (Cite)John Dickinson "
[15:23] (RiverRat) FreeTrad3: China (&Russia) also made us water them down considerably to get their vote. And that was before the British situation too.
[15:23] (FreeTrad3) Gopp does it have anything to do with anything discussed here at all ?
[15:23] (FreeTrad3) IM confused as hell.
[15:23] (gopp) it history
[15:23] (gopp) the american revoultion
[15:24] (gopp) I just wanted to see if thier was a history buff
[15:24] (gopp) in here
[15:24] (FreeTrad3) How is it related to Iran ?
[15:24] (gopp) oh well
[15:24] (FreeTrad3) Or TOny Snow ? Or the British Captives ? Or John McCain being gay ? :__)
[15:24] (Yaakov) It could be related to Iraq, loosely.
[15:24] (FreeTrad3) Actually I might vote for McCain I just dont know, I really dont have a clue... Hes pretty tolerant..
[15:25] (FreeTrad3) THough I dont know what this new article is about.
[15:25] (CGI564) Auf: The Iranians as the leaders of the Shi'a world are generically more concerned with the Sunnis than with relatively weak dissident sects of Shi'ism.
[15:25] (FreeTrad3) I dont usually read articles posted on the channel I confess, unless its I think its of extreme interest
[15:25] (CGI564) which makes sense, and is reflected not only in current circumstances, but historically.
[15:25] (RiverRat) FreeTrad3: That one I linked to was more of an antecdote to the perils of hot linking on the Internet.
[15:25] (Aufk|aren) CGI564: Exaclty, so it's a mrriage of convience. Given the chance, the Iranians would love to obliterate the Alawites.
[15:26] (CGI564) that's not to say there hasn't been great repression and brutality by 12er Shi'a against dissident sects within Iran.
[15:26] (CGI564) Auf: well, first things first/bigger fish to fry.
[15:27] (debauched) how are someone else's stem cells supposed to replaced Michael J Fox's destroyed brain cells? is that Scientiology, or ordinary psuedoscience? Isnt all that stem cell propaganda actually in support of abortion rights?
[15:27] (debauched) that was mentioned on that log about Tony Snow
[15:28] (debauched) err blog
[15:28] (CGI564) well, just goes to show how credible bloggers can be
[15:28] (observer) "While the causes of the conflict were numerous and varied, one of the principals was access to, and control of, the Shatt-al-Arab waterway. Control of the waterway and its use as a border have been a source of contention between various states since The Peace Treaty of 1639. Ambiguities in this agreement (between the Persians and the Ottoman Empire) led to continual disputes that have not been resolved to this day" ... http://www.a
[15:28] (observer) sooo, its a disputed border? or am i thinking of the wrong one?
[15:28] (Lupine) debauched: i hate it when people ONLY take up a cause when they get it.
[15:29] (CGI564) www.a , love that site.
[15:29] (gopp) mccain pff
[15:29] (FreeTrad3) Debauched, the same theory could heal my back. THe fact is noone knows.. Its just that there are possibilities that stem cells if manipulated right and if we can learn how to make them do what we want them to do, its possible in the future it could help people him and myself. But frankly the odds are still about like curing cancer and Aids.. Point is the research is a long long ways away
[15:29] (gopp) mccain is to centratist
[15:29] (gopp) I will not vote for mccain
[15:29] (FreeTrad3) It never could have saved superman... As some pretend
[15:29] (gopp) mit rommey or ron paul
[15:29] (Lupine) FreeTrad3: if you would suck the life force out of Nancy Pelosi, you would be healed.
[15:29] (Lupine) so Nancy Pelosi is against curing people
[15:29] (gopp) Lupine who will you vote for
[15:30] (gopp) nancy pelosi
[15:30] (FreeTrad3) We are talking 10 years probably before even moderate symptomatic treatments (not cures) if then ? Its still very speculative.
[15:30] (gopp) Lupine did you hear about no county property tax
[15:30] (thebarry) britain is going to start bombing iran
[15:30] (debauched) I had cancer in 1993. I always laugh at that stuff. I'd like to see: Pissbag cases conquer K2!
[15:30] (gopp) thebarry how do you know htis
[15:30] (FreeTrad3) And its not illegal and never has been.. So none of the debate was actually centered on the reality of the issue.
[15:30] (thebarry) and theyre not gonna stop when iran calls them and asks them to please stop
[15:30] (FreeTrad3) The issue was distorted to where noone was politically.
[15:30] (CGI564) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell_treatments#Spinal_cord_injury
[15:30] (gopp) thebarry how do you know this
[15:30] (FreeTrad3) Noone was against stem cells who was political
[15:30] (thebarry) theyre not gonna stop until iran starts sending carrier pigeons asking them to please stop
[15:30] (FreeTrad3) not the right nor the left, nor anyone.
[15:31] (thebarry) !!
[15:31] (gopp) thebarry who told you this
[15:31] (CGI564) it's so speculative, in fact, that actual treatments have been administered and worked.
[15:31] (FreeTrad3) It had to do with who paid for what and who did the research and with what material..
[15:31] (debauched) as for brain cells being irreplacable after they die off, at age 53 I know all about that heh
[15:31] (thebarry) no one i am an oracle
[15:31] (debauched) how do they rewire a severed spinal cord?
[15:32] (debauched) if that is actually a proper analogy
[15:32] (FreeTrad3) All the Feds said was we wont allow our money to be used for study based on snowflake zygotes I Guess you wouold call them..But nothing about a prohibition on private money or state money
[15:32] (thebarry) i need stereo bluetooth headphones :/
[15:32] (FreeTrad3) and there is a small fortune in state money just in California alone on it.
[15:33] (FreeTrad3) Sadly that issue was very much distorted in the last election.
[15:33] (gopp) but it wrong
[15:33] (gopp) to act like god
[15:33] (gopp) who are we to define who creators or not creators
[15:33] (FreeTrad3) Michael Fox came out strongly against a candidate and he admitted he hadnt even read the bill and when told what the bill was he said he agreed with parts of it.
[15:33] (FreeTrad3) THats how distorted it was.
[15:33] (gopp) it a argument that will lead to stating who has god power or not FreeTrad3
[15:33] (gopp) I agree with the argument of denying it
[15:34] (gopp) as it mean we can define life it wrong
[15:34] (gopp) inthe wrong hands
[15:34] (gopp) god is our creator not human
[15:34] (Lupine) FreeTrad3: my objection is from a different viewpoint than most. I object to the funding it, not because it destroys live.. but because it is not a valid constitutional role for the government. period.
[15:34] (debauched) FreeTrad3: ok, but if they are goibng to implant cells in your body, wobnt they need to have been cultured from your DNA? or they will set up a rejection thing, as in an organ transplant?
[15:34] (FreeTrad3) and in one case the persons sister had a disease similar to michaels, And the Sister didnt agree because of the way the science was being used in the politics. and she wants to be cured as much as michael does.
[15:34] (gopp) but I have no rights to tell who is or who is not
[15:34] (observer) "It was in the aftermath of WWI (and the subsequent border deliniations on the part of the British) that the dispute was first placed in an Iran-Iraq context. This resulted in a treaty between the two countries in 1937 and a commission to determine the border in 1938. This met with many of the problems mentioned earlier and little progress was made until the 1950s. However, just as it appeared that a lasting agreement might be reached
[15:34] (FreeTrad3) I Want my back to be cured. but there is no proof it will ever work, but I think they should research it.
[15:35] (FreeTrad3) But not because of me.
[15:35] (FreeTrad3) that would be selfish and egocentric.
[15:35] (gopp) Lupine I agree
[15:35] (gopp) Lupine so no colleges should get federal funds
[15:35] (FreeTrad3) Its just that there is no moral problem that I see with stem cell research.
[15:35] (gopp) I do
[15:35] (FreeTrad3) I do understand the ethical delimma of government spending on it.
[15:35] (gopp) it killing some cells or actinglike god
[15:36] (pilgrim`) no fedral shoudl have funds
[15:36] (pilgrim`) the Gub'mint should hold bake sales
[15:36] (gopp) but the federalist say they should pilgrim`
[15:36] (gopp) pilgrim` federalist argue that goverment has such rights
[15:36] (debauched) FreeTrad3: ok, but I think they should figure out how to generate stem cells from the body of the actual receipient of the tissue that is generated from the stem cells, otherwise they could have a rejection scenario
[15:36] (FreeTrad3) lupine a lot of people believe the private sector should fund these things.
[15:36] (pilgrim`) how much woul ANYTHING they use actually cost if it wasn't purchased on a gu'bmint contract?
[15:37] (FreeTrad3) WHy will someone like George Soros or moveon.com spend 10 million on a campaign on stem cell research but wont give as a charity 10 million to stem cell research ?
[15:37] (FreeTrad3) 10 million is a lot of research money
[15:37] (astrodog) Because if their campaign is sucessful, it would bring much more.
[15:37] (FreeTrad3) And if all the rich political groups who spend a fortune on this type of politics would spend it on the issue they wouldnt need government funding
[15:38] (FreeTrad3) Astro, Actually thats not neccesarily true at all.
[15:38] (Lupine) astrodog: no.. they dont care about the funding. they only care about the politics.
[15:38] (gopp) hhahahhahahahah
[15:38] (gopp) astranaft george has tons ofmoney
[15:38] (gopp) donateto charity
[15:38] (debauched) because Soros knows the present debate is actually a cover for abortion rights
[15:38] (gopp) astrodog he has the money
[15:38] (gopp) it all poltics withliberal
[15:38] (gopp) so they can buy votes
[15:39] (gopp) and expand federal goverment
[15:39] (gopp) and thus tax us to hell
[15:39] (debauched) Soros is only interested ion supporting leftist politics, and his handlers tell him thats important
[15:39] (FreeTrad3) Add up all the money spent on a given issue and compare it to what kind of government grants their would be ? Its not neccesarily true at all they would spend more (The govt) and furhter more. I dont thnk thier motive is stem cell research.
[15:39] (FreeTrad3) I happen to know the owners of moveon.org
[15:39] (gopp) you do
[15:39] (gopp) how did you meet him
[15:40] (DStewart) And why didn't you take him out when you had the chance?
[15:40] (gopp) did you bulid a home for him
[15:40] (FreeTrad3) they are as compassionate as Saddam Hussein.. They are more political and hate republicans more than any democrats I know.
[15:40] (gopp) FreeTrad3 did you call him out on his bs
[15:40] (FreeTrad3) Gopp, I wont reveal how I know these people period I will just say I am friends with the circle of friends they have.
[15:40] (FreeTrad3) Or one circle of friends.
[15:40] (DStewart) Our left has gone insane.
[15:40] (DStewart) By "our" I mean: The world's left.
[15:41] (gopp) FreeTrad3 While Congress debates the best way to end the war in Iraq, it is critical we stop the Bush administration from opening another front. Today, MoveOn ran a full page ad in the Washington Post asking Congress to rein the Bush administration in on Iran.
[15:41] (FreeTrad3) They know me and would be shocked if they figured out who I was and where I stood on issues.
[15:41] (TheTailor) "asking Congress to rein the Bush administration in"
[15:41] (gopp) hahahah " Internet freedom is under attack as Congress pushes a law that would give companies like AT&T the power to control what you do online.
[15:41] (gopp) * Moby »
[15:41] (gopp) * Your Senators »
[15:41] (gopp) * Media Action »
[15:41] (gopp) Success Stories
[15:41] (FreeTrad3) Ive said to much like Hagrath in Harry potter.
[15:41] (gopp) dam computer
[15:42] (FreeTrad3) Doh I shouldnt have said that should I .
[15:42] (DStewart) Congress doesn't have a "reining in" role.
[15:42] (gopp) you read all the harry potter books
[15:42] (FreeTrad3) Gopp Dont ask me questions about it again thats off limits with me
[15:42] (FreeTrad3) thats my personal life
[15:42] (gopp) oh k won't ask about harry potter
[15:42] (FreeTrad3) Gopp You know what i am talking about
[15:42] (DStewart) FT, you may enjoy this:
[15:42] (DStewart) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c
[15:43] (FreeTrad3) You know Gopp Sometimes I wonder if you are a genius hiding behind a fake cuban ethnicity which explains your grammar and spelling being worse than mine and you are really playing people like me and others on this channel ;)
[15:43] (BillFrugg) in the seventh book, Harry ends up in an alliance with Voldemort
[15:43] (FreeTrad3) But then I have protected you from people on this channel for years.
[15:43] (DStewart) Actually, FT, your grammar and spelling are worse than gopp's.
[15:43] (DStewart) :)
[15:43] (FreeTrad3) Who have said you are a troll.
[15:44] (FreeTrad3) DS haha NO way..
[15:44] (DStewart) Way, d00d
[15:44] (cyberfrg) lol
[15:44] (FreeTrad3) Noway.
[15:44] (FreeTrad3) Well at least I am Brilliant ;)
[15:45] (FreeTrad3) And as a matter of fact, I love Harry Potter.
[15:45] (cyberfrg) new movie comming out this year i think
[15:45] (FreeTrad3) I am in the middle of watching the series again right now. I am on the 3rd one tonight maybe. if I start early enough.
[15:45] (debauched) what if I use AT&T DSL to ssh to my ISP, which resists crap like whatever AT&T is going to knuckle under to?
[15:45] (FreeTrad3) they are long movies.
[15:45] (FreeTrad3) 3 hours I think. But I am not sure.
[15:45] (BillFrugg) Ron dies saving Harry, and Hermione kills herself out of grief
[15:46] (pilgrim`) naw... she opens a house of ill repute int he half world
[15:46] (FreeTrad3) Yeah I think a new Harry Potter comes out this year rumors being it will be the last year of the current cast.
[15:46] (FreeTrad3) At least Harry
[15:46] (cyberfrg) now THAT'S a book i'd want to read
[15:46] (BillFrugg) Hermione's Hookers
[15:46] (astrodog) Pervs.
[15:46] (cyberfrg) lol
[15:46] (pilgrim`) Hermonies House of Hookers,
[15:46] (FreeTrad3) They will probably have him come back in a new form based on a spell by voldamor.
[15:46] (cyberfrg) guilty as charged
[15:47] (Aufk|aren) FT: Daniel Radclif and Rupert Grint (Harry and Ron) are almsot definitely staying on the entire sereis.
[15:47] (FreeTrad3) or Valdamor, or however you spell his name.
[15:47] (BillFrugg) no. all three have signed on for the full run now
[15:47] (FreeTrad3) Auf, Really ?
[15:47] (pilgrim`) "fred"
[15:47] (Aufk|aren) FT: I think Emma Watson (Hermione) is going to leave after this next one.
[15:47] (FreeTrad3) I heard otherwise.
[15:47] (DStewart) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c
[15:47] (BillFrugg) the house elves will work for Hermione
[15:47] (pilgrim`) Auf I think she is suffering the Anette Syndrome
[15:47] (FreeTrad3) Auf, Ahh just when she is getting sexy ;) Just kidding.
[15:47] (BillFrugg) no. emma has signed on
[15:47] (Aufk|aren) FT: Well, Daniel Radcliffe and Rupert Grint have both said to the press they're going to stay on the entire run, and they've both signed on to the sixth and penultimate series.
[15:48] (FreeTrad3) If I was harry I would .... Well never mind.
[15:48] (pilgrim`) Anette Funicello
[15:48] (FreeTrad3) Auf thats cool then.
[15:48] (tnzr) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VePqzIrR-ao
[15:48] (Aufk|aren) Emma Watson, otherwise known as the sexy Hermione Granger (and I can say that because the age of consent here is 16, nyeh) is going to leave I think.
[15:48] (FreeTrad3) Without Harry it would really be worse and without hagrath ? Spelling.
[15:48] (FreeTrad3) Without him it would really suffer
[15:48] (pilgrim`) among my folk, the Harry Potter series is somewhat well received
[15:48] (Aufk|aren) Harry is almost looking to old for his part.
[15:49] (pilgrim`) I have a copy of the 1st book in Latin.
[15:49] (Aufk|aren) I'm going to see Equus (the play he's in at the moment) at the end of April.
[15:49] (FreeTrad3) Well I havent read the books so for me he cant really look to old.
[15:49] (FreeTrad3) How old is he supposed to be in this book ?
[15:49] (FreeTrad3) For this movie ?
[15:49] (cyberfrg) 15ish i think
[15:49] (BillFrugg) Here -- Emma Watson has signed on for the final films: http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=40712
[15:49] (FreeTrad3) What is he 21 ?
[15:49] (Aufk|aren) I have a friend who has already seen it. Apparently he looks quite a bit older than he should.
[15:49] (cyberfrg) he just turned 17 afaik
[15:49] (Aufk|aren) Well, it's his 5th year.
[15:49] (FreeTrad3) Just 17 ?
[15:49] (FreeTrad3) Shit
[15:49] (Aufk|aren) So he should be 15/16.
[15:49] (pilgrim`) big kid
[15:49] (Aufk|aren) To me, he looks about 17/18.
[15:49] (FreeTrad3) they can run him as a high school student or witchcraft equivalen.
[15:49] (FreeTrad3) t
[15:50] (Aufk|aren) At least.
[15:50] (Aufk|aren) I'm sure makeup can take care of that though,.
[15:50] (pilgrim`) my son is just getting his final voice. and its deep
[15:50] (Aufk|aren) He'll be right.
[15:50] (FreeTrad3) And you can make someone always look a year or two younger if not more than they are.
[15:50] (FreeTrad3) Shit
[15:50] (Magnus2k) Britain is looking pretty weak
[15:50] (FreeTrad3) I need to go watch the news.
[15:50] (pilgrim`) Judy Garland in Oz
[15:50] (Aufk|aren) I think it's a shame Hermione (emma watson) probably isn't staying though.
[15:50] (FreeTrad3) Later
[15:50] (Magnus2k) Why aren't they doing a lot more to get their soldiers back?
[15:50] (cyberfrg) that is sad Aufk|aren
[15:50] (BillFrugg) Auf, she is staying!
[15:50] (Aufk|aren) Eh, Emma Watson is hot.
[15:50] (FreeTrad3) BTW, Israel should consider the Arab Peace deal.. The US has worked on it too.. Not as a finishing point but as a starting point.
[15:50] (FreeTrad3) Later.
[15:51] (FreeTrad3) IN fact they are going to at least discuss it. Which is good..
[15:51] * FreeTrad3 away
[15:51] (Aufk|aren) BillFrugg: not according to what I've read on www.the-leaky-cauldron.org
[15:51] (BillFrugg) In his own statement, Robinov said: "When Daniel, Rupert and Emma were first cast as Harry, Ron and Hermione, we knew they were not only talented, but had a very special chemistry. Through the years, and in each of the Harry Potter films, we have watched them grow into extraordinary young adults, as well as remarkable actors. It would be inconceivable to imagine anyone else in the roles with which they have become so identified, so we
[15:51] (BillFrugg) are thrilled and proud that Daniel, Rupert and Emma have chosen to complete the arc of their characters in the final two films."
[15:51] (cyberfrg) the leaky cauldron sounds like a disease
[15:51] (BillFrugg) the leaky cauldron is wrong
[15:52] (Aufk|aren) Bill: when did that statement come out?
[15:52] (BillFrugg) Monday
[15:52] (cyberfrg) they would destroy the series by not keeping them on
[15:52] (Aufk|aren) BillFrugg: Because I'm operating off info that is at least six months old.
[15:52] (Aufk|aren) Ah, well, teriffic.
[15:52] (BillFrugg) the announcement was on March 23
[15:52] (cyberfrg) yay!
[15:52] (cyberfrg) that makes me smile
[15:52] (BillFrugg) Here -- Emma Watson has signed on for the final films: http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=40712
[15:52] (Aufk|aren) I can't wait to see Hermione in the next one, when it is at last permissible for me to want to do her.
[15:53] (Magnus2k) She's still a kid
[15:53] (Aufk|aren) She's 16.
[15:53] (Aufk|aren) That's the age of consent.
[15:53] (Aufk|aren) Good enough for me.
[15:53] (BillFrugg) I think there was some negotiation over the nude scene that was a contention
[15:53] (tnzr) Hearing on Allegations of GSA Misconduct: Braley Questions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VePqzIrR-ao
[15:54] (BillFrugg) GSA? Girl Scouts of America?
[15:54] (tnzr) General Services Administration
[15:56] (BillFrugg) what? too much time on their hands
[15:59] (fonebone`) heh.. that tatoo thing for the marines is kinda retarded
[15:59] (fonebone`) spit and polish image my ass
[15:59] (fonebone`) hehe
[15:59] (astrodog) fone?
[15:59] (astrodog) I know the Navy has some new regs.
[15:59] (fonebone`) yeah.. marines are changin their rules too
[16:00] (fonebone`) good time for it!
[16:00] (fonebone`) ha
[16:00] (thebarry) my phone is transfering at 35KBps
[16:00] (thebarry) via bluetooth
[16:00] (TheTailor) tnzr, I don't see how a meeting at lunch is misconduct.
[16:00] (SweetLeaf) fonebone talking to himself
[16:00] (thebarry) i like mp3s @ 320 tho...
[16:00] (Lupine) TheTailor: of course it is. She didn't take a $100,000 bribe and hide in it her freezer
[16:02] (TheTailor) Lupine, ahh, a ne'er-do-well.
[16:02] (tnzr) TheTailor: http://www.osc.gov/ha_fed.htm
[16:02] (BillFrugg) but using the white house to raise campaign donations is okay?
[16:03] (tnzr) These federal and D.C. employees may not- engage in political activity while: in a government office
[16:03] (Lupine) tnzr: i did a search for "lunch" on that url.
[16:03] (Lupine) came back negative.
[16:03] (tnzr) Time not important
[16:03] (tnzr) Location location location
[16:03] (BillFrugg) business lunches are illegal?
[16:03] (bi0h4z4rd) I'm doing a survey on something and I need as many opinions as possible for: "what does integrity mean to you?"
[16:03] (Lupine) only for non democrats I guess.
[16:03] (tnzr) hilarious
[16:04] (Lupine) tnzr: what if they were having lunch on foil-wrapped $5,000 bundles of cash?
[16:04] (BillFrugg) I thought the video was a gag -- something somebody made up
[16:04] (tnzr) Lupine: i don't understand.
[16:04] (TheTailor) tnzr, that says federal employees MAY "attend and be active at political rallies and meetings".
[16:04] (tnzr) These federal and D.C. employees may not- engage in political activity while: in a government office
[16:05] (Lupine) tnzr: i appreciate you admitting you don't understand.
[16:05] (bi0h4z4rd) Lupine and TheTailor, your quick opinions would mean a lot to me please
[16:05] (bi0h4z4rd) what does "integrity" mean to you?
[16:05] (bi0h4z4rd) just a quick one sentence answer please
[16:05] (tnzr) Lupine: I dont understand how what you said has anything to do with what the Hatch act states, and what took place
[16:05] (Lupine) well, can mean diffferent things depending on context.. you mean in terms of a persons behavior/ethics?
[16:05] (TheTailor) bi0h4z4rd, one word, honesty.
[16:05] (Yaakov) Integrity means wholeness in thought and deed.
[16:06] (bi0h4z4rd) thank you, TheTailor and Yaakov
[16:06] (tnzr) Integrity is a brand of pencil that has won me many a pencil fight over the decades
[16:06] (BillFrugg) four words: "No controlling legal authority"
[16:06] (Lupine) in terms of actions: doing what is right, even if you may suffer from doing so.
[16:07] (bi0h4z4rd) my opinion of it is "moral soundness"
[16:07] (bi0h4z4rd) hehe
[16:07] (bi0h4z4rd) thanks too, Lupine
[16:08] (Lupine) integrity (-----) flip flopping
[16:08] (Yaakov) bi0h4z4rd: The word integrity has a simple meaning when not applied to this area. There is a reason it is used in this context. It means that words (implying thought as well) and deeds are congruent. In other words, talk the talk AND walk the walk.
[16:09] (bi0h4z4rd) thank you sir :)
[16:09] (BillFrugg) "If there had been a shred of doubt in my mind that anything I did was a violation of law, I assure you I would not have done that. And my counsel advises me, let me repeat, that there is no controlling legal authority that says that any of these activities violated any law."
[16:10] (Yaakov) So the reason it means "moral soundness" is just that: Your thinking, speech and actions are all congruent.
[16:12] (astrodog) tnzr:A freind of mine cheats at pencil fights.
[16:12] (astrodog) He pulled the graphite out of one, and replaced it with a thin steel rod.
[16:12] (astrodog) :P
[16:12] (Lupine) if you cryofreeze it, it's a good 2 to 2 1/2 times stronger
[16:13] (BillFrugg) G Gordon Liddy once told me that a regular #2 pencil can be used as a lethal weapon
[16:13] (Lupine) the wood still has water moisture in it, and the freezing process at such an extremly low temperature creates a complex lattice work
[16:14] (observer) we need to cryofreeze bush's brain, karl rove
[16:14] (BillFrugg) clone, observer. not cryofreeze. clone.
[16:14] (Lupine) "I shall call him.. Mini Rove"
[16:15] (Nam) o man...
[16:15] (Nam) i have to pay for my college tuition
[16:15] (Nam) and buy books for my classes starting next week
[16:15] (FreeTrad3) Back Stabbing 2 Faced Liar
[16:15] (BillFrugg) Nam, just do like the libs. get a college loan, and then default on it
[16:15] (suna) yah mine start next week too
[16:15] (suna) where you go?
[16:15] (Nam) stanford
[16:16] (suna) ah
[16:16] (Nam) god damn rip off is what it is
[16:16] (suna) yah stanford's damn expensive
[16:16] (suna) stanford on quarter or semester?
[16:16] (Nam) quarter
[16:16] (Nam) wher eyou go?
[16:16] (suna) ucsc
[16:16] (Nam) oo pretty close to me
[16:16] (suna) one of the world's best for astrophysics:)
[16:16] (suna) yup, not far at all
[16:17] (suna) how'd last quarter go for ya?
[16:17] (CryHavoc) billfrugg..its not that easy anymore
[16:17] (suna) My last school was semesters. I like quarters better overall, but this one week brake between winter & spring...sux balls
[16:17] (CryHavoc) that defaulted loan will follow you around
[16:18] (CryHavoc) I like se,esters...less aggravation
[16:18] (BillFrugg) well... I paid mine off a long time ago...
[16:20] (suna) yah I have a student loan, they make you go through this online "counseling" thing....somethin like 35 pages, of which about 30 of them just emphasize over and over that 'THIS IS A LOAN'
[16:20] (suna) the last page is great, it says something like "Let us go back over the main three points. 1. THIS IS A LOAN. 2. YOU HAVE TO PAY US BACK. 3. THIS IS A LOAN"
[16:20] (suna) whole thing had me laughing
[16:20] (suna) aparently people defaulting is a pretty big problem:P
[16:21] (pilgrim`) I never took out a student loan, seemd an easier way of avoiding the issue
[16:22] (pilgrim`) of course the counterpoint was I ended up living in my pickup
[16:22] (suna) yah...I know plenty of students who still take that route
[16:22] (Nam) suna: my quarter went well
[16:23] (Nam) i've been getting A's and B's
[16:23] (Aufk|aren) They should bring back grants for higher education.
[16:23] (Aufk|aren) It ought to be free.
[16:23] (Nam) they do have grants
[16:23] (Nam) im getting 45k per year
[16:23] (Nam) on grant
[16:23] (pilgrim`) I squeaked by, but then, I could never keep my mouth shut when a prof was an obvious and absolute loon
[16:23] (Aufk|aren) I mean of the sort they had in Britain.
[16:23] (Nam) only costs me 5k per year to go to stanford
[16:23] (Aufk|aren) Complete grants - tuition and living.
[16:23] (Nam) its pretty much complete
[16:24] (suna) good stuff, I just found out yesterday I managed to get straight As (one was even an A+, no A-. yay!) last quarter. Was expecting at least one B, so I'm quite pleased about that.
[16:24] (pilgrim`) I did it the old fashioned way: cash
[16:24] (suna) I guess everyone else really bombed the finals
[16:24] (Nam) heh
[16:24] (Aufk|aren) We get student loans now in Britain. You get pretty much everything you need. You have to pay it back, but not until you're earning a certain amount.
[16:24] (Nam) no one bombs the finals here
[16:24] (Aufk|aren) Still, it ought to be free.
[16:24] (Nam) theres a huge grade inflation at stanford
[16:25] (Nam) god damn rich kids and their parents
[16:25] (suna) yah
[16:25] (pilgrim`) Auf I looked into it, decided I did not need to be beholden. I shoudl have. all my peers who defaulted now make more
[16:25] (Nam) the lowest grade that anyone gets is like C
[16:25] (apuzilla) unless they drop a class
[16:26] (Nam) then you get incomplete
[16:26] (pilgrim`) I am somewhat older
[16:26] (suna) Yah nam that seems to be how it is at ivy leagues, many others give me the same story;/
[16:26] (apuzilla) but you retake class and it over takes your inc
[16:26] (Aufk|aren) pilgrim': I've been lying on my loan application the last three years (it's means tested). I get £1800 a semester (about $3500), the rest is paid by the government.
[16:26] (suna) yup
[16:26] (thebarry) hrmm i just took a pic with my phone
[16:26] (Nam) at stanford, you can retake any class
[16:26] (thebarry) and it's real yellow
[16:26] (Nam) replace your old grade
[16:26] (Aufk|aren) pilgrim': I don't have to pay it back until I earn a certain amount.
[16:26] (thebarry) how do i make it less yellow?
[16:26] (pilgrim`) back in my day everyone stayed in school for good reason. the draft
[16:26] (Aufk|aren) pilgrim' : but still, all of our leaders went through university for free. It should be
[16:27] (pilgrim`) Auf here, its time based. so many years after graduation
[16:27] (suna) I almost had to take incompletes my first quarter, but that's cuase I was damn near dead in the hospital within a week of finals. I decided to take the finals anyway, and did well even. Looking back, it was stupid. Even though i did well, the smarter thing would have been to take the incompletes and rest. Oh well, turned out fine.
[16:27] (Aufk|aren) .. the same now.
[16:27] (Nam) what happened to you suna?
[16:27] (Aufk|aren) pilgrim': There should be less people going to university for bullshit courses, and the people that do go should get in for free.
[16:27] (suna) bad respitory infection / asthma & all that good stuff
[16:27] (Nam) lol
[16:28] (pilgrim`) somethign for nothing: its worth exactly what you pay for it
[16:28] (pilgrim`) I can recall the 1st year classes were all held in HUGE! auditoriums
[16:28] (Eeyore) gentlemen good to see you all still here
[16:28] (pilgrim`) by the 2nd semester it was down to a small class
[16:28] (Nam) lucky
[16:28] (Nam) my classes are still pretty big
[16:28] (Aufk|aren) pilgrim': Britain has only started charging people to go to uni in the last twenty years. And we had probably the best public education system in the world.
[16:29] (pilgrim`) Nam it got smalelr becasue many boneheads left
[16:29] (Nam) lol
[16:29] (Aufk|aren) It ought to be free, along the line. Less people should go.
[16:29] (Nam) going to a large university is BS
[16:29] (suna) lol yah
[16:29] (Nam) horrible education
[16:29] (Aufk|aren) Nam: Bah, going to a large, good university is the only way.
[16:29] (pilgrim`) Auf "public school" had a soemwhat different rep some years back
[16:29] (Eeyore) its not the size its the philosophy that makes it good or bad
[16:29] (pilgrim`) in the British sense of it
[16:29] (Aufk|aren) pilgrim': I meant public school in the British sense, not American sense.
[16:29] (Nam) you never get any attention in large universities
[16:29] (WyldOcsar) I took a few premed courses. a good portion of the students were freshmen women who were looking for a doctor and didnt even take notes or show up for tests.
[16:30] (Nam) they try to make it seem like you're getting some attention, but you really arent
[16:30] (Aufk|aren) Anyway, time to watch some Battlestar Galactica. Adios.
[16:30] (Nam) a=later
[16:30] (Eeyore) WyldOcsar well I hope you took full advantage of that
[16:30] (WyldOcsar) i did
[16:30] (Nam) lol
[16:30] (pilgrim`) Auf the 2nd son of the Bishop of Morton, the youngr sicon of a Noble line from the Lake District, and other peers ...all ...dumb as a post
[16:30] (Eeyore) outstanding, they deserved every face load
[16:31] (suna) the physics majors are always small to begin with, but it also gets even smaller teh closer you get to the top. The cosmology elective I took last quarter had 18 people in it. It's a course for majors and isn't a pre req to anything other than graduation, so everyone who tkaes it is pretty damn interested & in a physics major. However, when you look ahead to enrollments of the last courses...they're like 4 and 5. People drop like crazy.
[16:31] (pilgrim`) send their horse, it woudl do better
[16:31] (Nam) suna: u a physics major?
[16:31] (pilgrim`) suna physics is different. Sicence and Engineering are....different
[16:32] (suna) i'm in ucsc's physics(astrophysics) major. Which is 3 courses different from the general physics major:) (you take 3 astrophysics electives instead of 3 general physics electives)
[16:32] (CryHavoc) Engineering is a science..but not all science is engineering
[16:32] (suna) astrophysics also has to do an observational astro lab, which i'm qutie looking forward to. The enrollment this time (i'll be in the next one) is 3. Talk about personal attention.
[16:33] (apuzilla) whats your major nam?
[16:33] (Nam) lol
[16:33] (Nam) good question
[16:33] (CryHavoc) suna;s ultimate goal: to discover sunaru
[16:33] (Nam) apuzilla: i ask that quesiton to myself everyday
[16:33] (Nam) i thought iw as gonna major in CS
[16:33] (suna) Nam: so did I at one point
[16:33] (CryHavoc) Astrophysics is one of the expanding fields now
[16:33] (pilgrim`) now the Lib Arts schools. those are "issues
[16:34] (suna) yah it's growing
[16:34] (Nam) thats why i chose stanford over the east coast ivy leagues
[16:34] (Eeyore) gotta re boot
[16:34] (CryHavoc) no CS for me...Iwent IT
[16:34] (redfish) cryhavoc is astrophysics expanding because of cosmic inflation
[16:34] (td) IT is a major?
[16:34] (suna) cosmology is the reason, people hear about dark matter & inflation and say "I wanna do that!"
[16:34] (astrodog) IT might be an undergrad major...
[16:34] (CryHavoc) td...yes it is..
[16:34] (CryHavoc) yes
[16:34] (Nam) i'll probably major in econ though
[16:35] (Nam) stanford CS is too hardcore
[16:35] (CryHavoc) I have a Bachelors of Science in IT
[16:35] (redfish) nam is weak
[16:35] (Nam) lol ya
[16:35] (astrodog) CH: They gave you a B.S. in IT?!
[16:35] (CryHavoc) far as I will go I reckon...
[16:35] (pilgrim`) I work in IT...but I majored in medieval history ;)
[16:35] (Nam) i aced my CS class this quarter though
[16:35] (CryHavoc) astro.....no...I earned it
[16:35] (astrodog) Cry: Most IT/MIS type undergrad degrees I've seen are BAs.
[16:35] (CryHavoc) 1/2 the courses were walk through...lol
[16:35] (suna) most schools don't even offer astro as an undergard degree, they just ahve you do a physics undergrad and take on astro in grad school. Ucsc really isn't much different, as like I described before...the "physics(astrophysics)" (this is actually how it's written) degree is almost identical to the general physics degree & applied physics degree
[16:36] (CryHavoc) Info tech is a science..
[16:36] (astrodog) suna: Its sad that I am not offered as an undergrad degree.
[16:36] (astrodog) :(
[16:36] (pilgrim`) Info Tech is wearign yoru Dilbert Suit and acting informed ;)
[16:36] (astrodog) CH: Its as much of a science as, say, welding.
[16:36] (CryHavoc) not quite pilgirm..I am quite informed
[16:36] (CryHavoc) astro..I disagree...
[16:37] (Nam) education is BS man
[16:37] (CryHavoc) we dealt with Windows and Linux and some coding
[16:37] (FreeTrad3) Porn Spammer
[16:37] (CryHavoc) Nam..not really...
[16:37] (Nam) its not what you know that matters, its who yuo know that matters
[16:37] (astrodog) Cry: Arc welding, Mig welding, and types of metal.
[16:37] (astrodog) ;)
[16:37] (CryHavoc) I however an too old for the computer industry...
[16:37] (Nam) its all about connections man
[16:37] (pilgrim`) Cry most of the IT pros I work with... wear a Dilbert Suit and look informed.......but ain't ;)
[16:37] (CryHavoc) astrodog...Information Technology qualifies as a science :)
[16:38] (astrodog) Cry: What languages did they teach you with?
[16:38] (td) no it doesnt
[16:38] (suna) ucsc (which is uc santa cruz if anybody didn't know) has some of the most retarded people I've ever met. One day on the bus these two idiots were debating that the existance of pirates is more realistic than vampires.
[16:38] (redfish) computer science isnt less science than political science, if taught right :)
[16:38] (CryHavoc) pilgrim...first off..I am thru with a tie..
[16:38] (astrodog) Cry: I disagree. I was a CS major, though.
[16:38] * pilgrim` is fluent in PL/1
[16:38] (WyldOcsar) education is not bs. learning how to communicate and how to learn is basic
[16:38] (astrodog) redfish: CS is. IT isn't.
[16:38] (bi0h4z4rd) anyone here over 35 mind helping me real quick?
[16:38] (pilgrim`) I used to knwo DOS/VSE and BAL
[16:38] (bi0h4z4rd) take 60 seconds of your time
[16:38] (CryHavoc) second off..before I ever started the courses..I had my own PC for 16 years..and built more of them then I can recall
[16:38] (Nam) suna: those gus have serious problems...
[16:38] (td) Building PCs has nothing to do with science
[16:38] (pilgrim`) Cry I grandfathered fromt eh Mainframe world
[16:38] (astrodog) Cry: What language did they teach you?
[16:39] (WyldOcsar) a screwdriver + 10 minutes = building a computer
[16:40] (BillFrugg) I have built computers before computers were available
[16:41] (CryHavoc) we messed with Visual Studio .net
[16:41] (WyldOcsar) when I build a computer I take a good deal of time researching components, literally just a few minutes to put it together.
[16:41] (redfish) a sanitary engineer is also a scientist
[16:41] (CryHavoc) I detest coding though
[16:41] (astrodog) Cry: Which language, though?
[16:41] (BillFrugg) I can remember when 'components' meant IC's
[16:41] (CryHavoc) td.....it has to do with it by realizing Computers are usually arbitrary...they work..or they do not work..
[16:42] (CryHavoc) Science in many ways is the same...yer theory is bullshit...or it is potentially viable
[16:42] (astrodog) Cry: Uhm.
[16:42] (td) they teach "IT" up here in canada, but not at any universities, they would never get accreditation to give degrees for it
[16:42] (astrodog) That's true with applications... but rarely with the lower level stuff.
[16:42] (CryHavoc) whatever...
[16:43] (CryHavoc) it qualifies as a science field though..no matter how much you poke fun at it
[16:43] (astrodog) Cry: A capacitor doesn't work, or not work. Its efficency will change throughout its life.
[16:43] (CryHavoc) if it does so it is working yes..
[16:43] (astrodog) Cry: Its not a science, the way CS, or Chemistry is. I'd compare it to, say, political science.
[16:43] (Nam) why are we talking about science in a poltics channel
[16:43] (CryHavoc) IT is a science
[16:44] (astrodog) Cry: In what way?
[16:44] (CryHavoc) Information TECHNOLOGY
[16:44] (Pickle) Computer science majors can specialise in Systems Analysis
[16:44] (astrodog) There's not really IT Theory, for example.
[16:44] (Harsen) http://www.yesbutnobutyes.com/archives/funnycomic_jla.jpg
[16:44] (Pickle) Would-be IT department heads do that.
[16:44] (astrodog) Cry: The printing press is a technology. That doesn't make writing a science.
[16:44] (Harsen) "What the American people want, IS TO KICK THEIR ASS"
[16:44] (CryHavoc) the degree would prob be able to lead to that sort of position
[16:44] (BillFrugg) Nam, the politics of computers
[16:45] (Nam) lol
[16:45] (CryHavoc) English is a Art
[16:45] (DStewart) a art!
[16:45] (DStewart) Speaking of which...
[16:45] (astrodog) Cry: I suppose a better way to explain this, is that the scientific method doesn't really have a place in IS/IT.
[16:45] (CryHavoc) doing a budget analysis in creating a workflow template for a theoretical project is not an art
[16:45] (DStewart) has anyone else noticed that the article "an" is disappearing?
[16:45] (astrodog) The theories and such are already worked out.
[16:46] (Nam) Dstewart: no
[16:46] (DStewart) No one else? I'm the only one?
[16:46] (CryHavoc) The IT degree is heavily involved with computing systems
[16:46] (Nam) people still use it everyday
[16:46] (Harsen) DStewart, Only on this channel.
[16:46] (astrodog) Cry: Right. Doing those things is not a science, either.
[16:46] (DStewart) Harsen, no, actually in common speech
[16:46] (CryHavoc) it is not an art
[16:46] (astrodog) Cry: But completely uninvolved in the science behind computers.
[16:46] (DStewart) Nam, that's "every day." :P
[16:46] (DStewart) You're welcome.
[16:46] * DStewart waits for Nam to take a swing
[16:46] (Nam) i enver use correct grammar online
[16:46] (Harsen) DStewart, Not that i've noticed, I work in a place which is "supposed" to have higher level than average english skills (though it rarely does)
[16:46] (WyldOcsar) the power that google has amassed is no joke
[16:47] (Pickle) In Canada you take computer science with a specialization in Systems Analysis. That's an "IT" degree.
[16:47] (DStewart) Wyld, you're right. We have got to rein in Google.
[16:47] (DStewart) I say we use the trust-busting laws.
[16:47] (Harsen) DAMN YOU GOOGLE!
[16:47] (Pickle) Alternatively you take it with a specialization in some field of programming. That's a "programming" degree.
[16:47] (CryHavoc) pol Sci is not politics per se...but an analysis of ther underlying politics
[16:47] (DStewart) Google controls my life way too much
[16:47] (Harsen) Look, if you don't like the "power" google has, vote with your browser and use say, lycos or hotbot
[16:47] (td) yeah Pickle, but I doubt he took calculus
[16:47] (Harsen) of YAHOO
[16:47] (WyldOcsar) I like google I use google its damn powerful
[16:47] (Nam) google pwns
[16:47] (Nam) thats why i go to stanford
[16:47] (Harsen) hotbot sucks.
[16:48] (DStewart) Wyld, just more proof of its monopoly power
[16:48] (Demopubli) Bush has made an art out of english. "We need to put family on the table for the food" hahaha
[16:48] (DStewart) hahaha
[16:48] (DStewart) It's "a art"
[16:48] (Harsen) TEL AVIV [MENL] -- Egypt's military has quietly abandoned the Gaza Strip.
[16:48] (Harsen) Israeli sources said the 100-member Egyptian military advisory delegation that arrived in the Gaza Strip in mid-2006 has been recalled. They said two generals have remained, but spend most of their time in Israel to ensure their safety from Palestinian attacks.
[16:48] (CryHavoc) The BA degree is a liberal arts degree. It provides general knowledge in many fields and emphasizes intellectual skills such as thinking, problem solving, reasoning, and judgment. The primary goal of a liberal arts degree is not to prepare the student for a specific job but to develop an educated citizen, the traditional objective of a college education.
[16:48] (CryHavoc) The BS degree is narrower and more specialized than the BA, emphasizing mathematics, science, and computer skills. It is most appropriate for students planning research careers in areas of psychology requiring a strong background in mathematics and the sciences. Neuroscience, cognitive psychology, learning, and perception are examples of such areas.
[16:48] (CryHavoc) badabinggg!!!
[16:49] (Lupine) This is SOOO PC it's just wrong http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/Davethepa/image005.jpg
[16:49] (Pickle) td: If he took an actuall degree program in some field of IT, whatever they call it, it's probable that they did have to take calculus. On the other hand, if they want the retard route and took a diploma course of some sort, then probably not. But those are available in Canada too.
[16:49] (CryHavoc) Lupine ..LOL
[16:49] (Pickle) People who want to wind up working in a Convergys call centre take them.
[16:49] (DStewart) Harsen, for your edification: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c
[16:50] (Harsen) DStewart, I watched it earlier when you linked it, a couple of nights ago
[16:50] (DStewart) I may have scared Demopubli away inadvertantly
[16:50] (Pickle) "Hey, look at me, I'm an MCSE? Now, how can I help you with your internet problem?"
[16:50] (DStewart) Harsen, oh, okay
[16:50] (Harsen) DStewart, Here you go though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU
[16:50] (DStewart) Thanks... I haven't gotten to watching that one yet
[16:50] (WyldOcsar) an a+ cert will qualify you to be a janitor at an isp
[16:51] (thebarry) a+ is a good starting point !
[16:51] (nharris) hehe "how modern liberals think" is a good vid
[16:51] (thebarry) url?
[16:51] (DStewart) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c
[16:51] * DStewart sets a timer
[16:51] (thebarry) is it like 2 minutes af a dark screen and silence?
[16:51] (DStewart) ar ar
[16:51] (Pickle) A+... The choice of call centre professionals everywhere.
[16:51] (DStewart) No
[16:52] (DStewart) It's not impressionistic.
[16:52] (Pickle) Along with MCSE one-shotters
[16:52] (TheTailor) Harsen, I took the 75 minutes to watch that video
[16:52] (DStewart) 45
[16:52] (DStewart) Oh, GW... 75
[16:53] (TheTailor) 75 for the one he gave me
[16:53] (DStewart) Yeah
[16:53] (TheTailor) yeah
[16:53] (Lupine) doh!
[16:53] (DStewart) Tailor, hey... I did not forget a period!
[16:53] (Lupine) you can't forget your period?
[16:53] (DStewart) It's not required when you use h4ckz0rz spelling!
[16:53] (TheTailor) haha
[16:53] (TheTailor) You did! And I'm telling everyone!
[16:53] * DStewart rolls eyes
[16:53] (tnzr) anyone here a chopper pilot?
[16:53] (DStewart) I am
[16:53] (nharris) problem with most MCSE holders is they got their certs by memorizing tests and answers, not the material
[16:53] (DStewart) Also a terpsichorean
[16:53] (tnzr) DStewart: seriously?
[16:53] (DStewart) Totally seriously
[16:53] (tnzr) right.
[16:53] (tnzr) anyone else?
[16:53] (DStewart) How many fuckin' chopper pilots do you need?????
[16:54] (tnzr) I dont believe you
[16:54] (DStewart) I meant "effing."
[16:54] (CryHavoc) nharris..I diod not memorize much...
[16:54] (CryHavoc) I crashed a few machines..
[16:54] * DStewart stands agog
[16:54] (_rwx) Abusive Domain or User
[16:54] (DStewart) Doesn't believe me???
[16:54] (nharris) heheh CH... trial and error field experience after reading the material is best!
[16:54] (CryHavoc) DStewart is Agog and aghast..could he have found lust at last...
[16:54] (DStewart) Well, I'm not actually licensed...
[16:54] (DStewart) certified...
[16:54] (CryHavoc) this is bettere then an opera!!!!
[16:54] (DStewart) trained...
[16:54] (DStewart) practiced...
[16:55] (DStewart) In fact, I never really thought about becoming one...
[16:55] (DStewart) But other than that...
[16:55] (DStewart) I'M A DAMN CHOPPER PILOT.
[16:55] (Lupine) recognizing the necessary information and where to obtain it quickly, is more important than simple memorization
[16:55] (nharris) I've got 2 unofficial hours in a Seahawk!
[16:55] (redfish) dstewart doesnt need any type of certification or degree, he has a letter of recommendation from richard stallman
[16:55] (tnzr) DStewart: I see so you are just good at Choplifter.
[16:55] (tnzr) iiiiinteresting
[16:56] (DStewart) WTH is choplifter?
[16:56] (Pickle) Old Atari game IIRC
[16:56] (nharris) it was mentioned in Hunt for red october!
[16:56] (DStewart) Oh. No.
[16:56] (tnzr) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choplifter
[16:57] (tnzr) thats you about to take out that blue Mig there, over the T-72's, near that prison camp
[17:00] (CryHavoc) Chances are..when M$ shifts its Certification program..I will not bother renewing mine...no reason to
[17:00] (td) did you get that as part of your B.Sc
[17:00] (Lupine) any job that requires a specific cert.. well.. you probably do not want
[17:02] (td) is it a cert Twobar has too?
[17:02] (redfish) twobar has a degree in queer studies
[17:03] (pilgrim`) Choplifter RULZ
[17:03] (pilgrim`) it was a Appel II game
[17:03] (pilgrim`) Apple
[17:04] (pilgrim`) there was anotehr game I even bought I forget the name of; side scroller based on Choplifter.. PC thing
[17:04] (thebarry) wtf how do you dl movies off of youtube?
[17:04] (thebarry) that link you posted is fucking up on me
[17:04] (pilgrim`) thebarry you use firefox and a plug in
[17:04] (Lupine) thebarry: you can either pay me $50, or have sex with twobar
[17:04] (thebarry) and i'm not able to refresh it
[17:05] (thebarry) how about i pay twobar to rape you
[17:05] (thebarry) a nickel
[17:05] (Lupine) lol
[17:05] (Lupine) http://www.downloadhelper.net/
[17:05] (redfish) thebarry if i agree to it its not rape
[17:05] (suna) I'll do it for free
[17:06] (Lupine) small plug in to save/download it. you will need a .flv viewer thou
[17:06] (Lupine) suna: i accept your offer
[17:06] * Lupine cornholes suna's virgin bung brutually
[17:06] (Lupine) squeel boy! squeel!
[17:06] (suna) redfish: I'm coming to molest you this weekend
[17:06] (CometBaby) Here it is .. the UN solution to aids
[17:06] (redfish) suna what time
[17:06] (CometBaby) GENEVA (AP) - U.N. health agencies recommended Wednesday that heterosexual men undergo circumcision because of "compelling" evidence that it can reduce their chances of contracting HIV by up to 60 percent.
[17:06] (thebarry) i dont have firefox i use opera
[17:06] (suna) redfish: not exactly sure yet, depends on other's schedules
[17:07] (thebarry) say WHAT?
[17:07] (Lupine) thebarry: that one plugin is why i haver FF loaded stil :-)
[17:07] (suna) I demand that you insure my gambling victories. Meaning, if I lose, I rob you
[17:07] (thebarry) i'm gonna try IE
[17:07] (Lupine) CometBaby: yea, somehow THAT will go over well..
[17:08] (Pickle) Mike Farrell just called himself a "true patriot of the United States of America".
[17:08] (Pickle) BAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[17:08] (CometBaby) they are sharpening the knifes at the UN .. just stick your penis out there
[17:08] (Pickle) BWAA
[17:08] * suna calls pickle a canadian and runs away
[17:08] (Pickle) lol
[17:09] (suna) bah....speaking of pickle, i'm in a pickle....should I buy something on a great deal that I probably won't need? HUMBUG
[17:10] (nharris) only if it's related to getting laid
[17:10] (suna) good philosophy. so nope, I save my $
[17:10] (suna) more $ to spend/lose in reno
[17:10] (suna) ;p
[17:10] (nharris) there ya go
[17:11] (suna) it's amazing the mentality people have with gambling. For exmample, I don't care if i'm betting $75 a hand on blackjack...I'm still not paying $10 for a god damn hamburger.
[17:11] (CometBaby) suna .. lol. That's like a woman buying something she doesn't want or need because she has a coupon for .25 cents off.
[17:11] (Yaakov) suna: http://www.woot.com/
[17:11] (Yaakov) Hello, CometBaby q
[17:11] (Yaakov) s/q//
[17:11] (CometBaby) yaak !!!
[17:11] (suna) I don't actually play blackjack, just an example
[17:11] * suna plays poker
[17:11] (suna) I don't suck too bad!
[17:12] (CometBaby) heh .. women buy clothes all the time .. things they will never wear .. because it is "on sale"
[17:12] (Harsen) -Everyone plays poker
[17:12] (Harsen) even i play poker now.
[17:12] (suna) yup
[17:12] (CometBaby) not me
[17:12] (CometBaby) I hate to shop
[17:12] (suna) it's damn popular
[17:12] (Pickle) I don't know how to play poker.
[17:12] (Harsen) suna, only Holdem is popular
[17:12] (Pickle) And I don't really know how to play golf, either.
[17:12] (suna) true
[17:12] (Yaakov) Pickle: Let's start a Cricket Club.
[17:12] (Lupine) to me, poker is worthless if its not face to face
[17:12] (Yaakov) #Politics Cricket Society
[17:12] (Pickle) I only mention that because there are more golf courses here per capita than anywhere else on earth.
[17:13] (Yaakov) We'll never actually play, of course.
[17:13] (suna) I like holdem though. There's skill to the game, but it's still got the excitment of gambling.
[17:13] (suna) 5 card draw is like "hrm....I can tell he's got SOMETHING....but wtf is it!?@#%" where in holdem it's like "yah he caught his flush"
[17:13] (WyldOcsar) the only gambling I do is buying a volunteer fire company 50/50 raffle ticket.
[17:14] (Harsen) I play in a professor's poker game once a week
[17:14] (Harsen) its pretty good discussion usually
[17:14] (Harsen) current events
[17:14] (CometBaby) wolfy you know .. my husband has friends that he plays poker with. They don't use a lot of money so it never becomes a mean game. It's a good time for the guys .. they get loud and drunk and repulsive .. and they tease each other mercilessly.
[17:14] (Harsen) Poker to me is just something to do while having a conversation and a couple of cold ones.
[17:15] (Lupine) Do they ever run around your house in just boxers asking you to scratch their ass? :-)
[17:15] (WyldOcsar) years ago I played penny ante, dime limit poker with beer and friends.
[17:15] (CometBaby) He was invited to join a neighborhood game .. they play texas holdem .. and he didn't like it. He said it was big money and everyone was dead serious. Not his kind of poker at all.
[17:15] (Lupine) Harsen: yea
[17:15] (Pickle) Comet: That's because of all these dopes who watch the various tv poker games and think they can make it there some day.
[17:15] (suna) its kind of anonying what they show on tv though, like world series of poker. They play the most exciting moments only, which are totally unrealistic. Not to mention...they frame these guys as like the world champs, but the only hands they show are when they go all in before the flop. Like wtf, that's straight GAMBLING.
[17:15] (Harsen) CometBaby, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU That is excellent.
[17:16] (Pickle) So they take all the fun out of the game.
[17:16] (Lupine) suna: i wish they'ld delay showing the hands as well
[17:16] (CometBaby) harsen .. hehe .. I've seen it .. its awesome
[17:16] (suna) yah me too
[17:16] (suna) at least some times, switch it up or something...make all the viewers happy
[17:16] * Yaakov pokes CometBaby.
[17:17] (Yaakov) There, poke her.
[17:17] (TheTailor) Pokes?
[17:17] (Pickle) Yaakov: We should start a curling club instead
[17:17] (Yaakov) Pickle: That's the winter sport.
[17:17] (CometBaby) lol
[17:17] (Pickle) Nah, curling can be played year-round
[17:18] (Yaakov) Pickle: Cricket in the spring and summer, fall starts scurling season.
[17:18] (DStewart) It's as easy to not play a winter sport in summer as to not play it in winter.
[17:18] (Yaakov) curling, too.
[17:18] (_3Josephs) I'm waiting for Basketball on Ice
[17:18] (Lupine) Did you read that the new Wii has "revolutionized" retired/elderly folk? Yep, now they play shuffleboard INSIDE on the tv
[17:18] (Harsen) Curling is not bad, its very much a game to drink while playing
[17:18] (Harsen) I don't understand it really.
[17:19] (Yaakov) Pickle: We can play cricket with curling rocks.
[17:19] (Harsen) Broomball is popular here too
[17:19] (CometBaby) HONG KONG: It was a device worthy of Rube Goldberg or Wile E. Coyote: a dozen remote-controlled launching tubes secretly buried in the turf at Hong Kong's most famous horse race track last week, armed with compressed air to fire tiny, liquid-filled darts into the bellies of horses at the starting gate.
[17:19] (CometBaby) I've been to this track
[17:19] (Yaakov) Pickle: The bowler is going to need some serious arms.
[17:19] (astrodog) CB: THat's... kinda impressive.
[17:19] (astrodog) :P
[17:19] (CometBaby) you want to talk serious gamblers? You should see them in HK. This track si unbelivably busy
[17:19] (Pickle) People talk about hockey being associated with Canadians... Nah. It's all curling around here, baby.
[17:20] (Harsen) Pickle, WHL is FUCKIN popular here in Brandon
[17:20] (Aufk|aren) -----k
[17:20] (Aufk|aren) Woops.
[17:20] (Harsen) Pickle, Probably because we wipe the floor with the Pats whenever we play them.
[17:20] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren!
[17:20] (Aufk|aren) btw, curling sucks.
[17:20] (Lupine) CometBaby: what the ??? what were they for?
[17:20] (Pickle) Harsen: That's because the only thing anyone knows about Brandon is that the Wheat Kings play there.
[17:20] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov!
[17:20] (CometBaby) No horses were hurt, because the track supervisor noticed something underfoot before racing started, discovered the elaborate mechanism concealed by grass-colored tape and called in a police bomb squad to remove it. But the discovery of the device, equipped with elaborate electronic controls, has raised concerns about security
[17:20] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: Cricket is the only true sport.
[17:20] (Aufk|aren) The Scots won the curling at the Olympics a couple of years back. Never heard the end of it.
[17:20] (Aufk|aren) It's not even a sport.
[17:21] (Lupine) Yaakov is a life member of the Badmidden League
[17:21] (Aufk|aren) Some twat throws a rock down the ice and some other twats sweep the ice with some brushes
[17:21] (Harsen) Pickle, To be fair, the only thing anyone knows about Regina is the Rough Riders and a bunch of lysol-fueled skid row indian murders occur there.
[17:21] (Aufk|aren) That's not a sport.
[17:21] (Yaakov) Badmitton is some serious stuff at the high level.
[17:21] (WyldOcsar) is syncronized swimming a sport?
[17:21] (Pickle) Harsen: I was at the last Pats game of the regular season. Brandon got their asses handed to them, thanks much.
[17:21] (Aufk|aren) Badminton is good.
[17:21] (DStewart) twat?
[17:22] (Aufk|aren) I played badminton when I was younger.
[17:22] (redfish) dstewart = twat
[17:22] (DStewart) You know that must have two meanings.
[17:22] (DStewart) Three, now, thanks to redfish!
[17:22] (Lupine) Aufk|aren: maybe we need to cross curling with ice hockey?
[17:22] * DStewart beans redfish
[17:22] (pilgrim`) fish slapping
[17:22] (Aufk|aren) DStewart: Depends on the context. Literally, it means vagina. It can be a noun, adjective or a verb depending on circumstance though.
[17:22] (DStewart) Literally?
[17:22] (DStewart) I think it's colloquially.
[17:22] (Aufk|aren) Literally. ;)
[17:22] (DStewart) But maybe that's just me!
[17:22] (nharris) synchro swimming.. heh. The olympics are nothing short of a joke these days
[17:22] (Aufk|aren) LITERALLY.
[17:22] (Aufk|aren) ;)
[17:23] (pilgrim`) Vista means "chicken" in Latvian so local meanigns can have world class consequences
[17:23] (Harsen) Pickle, Eh we're still ahead of the Pats in the playoffs so w/e
[17:23] (DStewart) pilgrim, it now means shit in English.
[17:23] (Aufk|aren) I twatted that twat, who was being a complete twat.
[17:23] (DStewart) Well, colloquially.
[17:23] (Aufk|aren) (Example)
[17:23] (Lupine) pilgrim`: better than the Chevy Nova in latin america
[17:24] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: Drama! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vpfUOQKbLA&mode=related&search=
[17:24] (Lupine) [Origin: 1650–60; perh. orig. dial. var. of *thwat, *thwot, presumed mod. E outcome of OE *thwat, akin to ON thveit cut, slit, forest clearing () E dial. (N England) thwaite forest clearing)]
[17:24] (Aufk|aren) It's great that Americans don't get offended by the word twat.
[17:24] (Lupine) lol.. "forest clearing"
[17:24] (Lupine) Aufk|aren: bloody hell, now bugger off
[17:24] (Aufk|aren) If this channel was British-run, I'd probably be banned by now. Its harshness is probably second only 'cunt.'
[17:25] (Harsen) cunt was on the banlist for quite awhile in here
[17:25] (Harsen) IIRC
[17:25] (Lupine) Harsen: yea, but then it was decided.. we should be allowed to discuss Hillary here
[17:25] (Harsen) bwahaha
[17:25] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: What-o, old bean. Settle the horses, it'll be over soon old boy.
[17:26] (Harsen) Aufk|aren is talkin like some kind of homosexual
[17:26] (DStewart) Aufklaren, call a woman either one of those, and you'll get tossed quickly.
[17:26] (BillFrugg) Harsen, he is what he is
[17:26] (DStewart) And by "tossed" I don't mean you'll get a hand job.
[17:26] (Harsen) DAMN!
[17:26] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: I'm not a poofter, you blackguard!
[17:26] (Harsen) I was going to call Comet one of those too..
[17:27] (BillFrugg) Rule #1: No poofters!
[17:27] (Harsen) Aufk|aren, Stop speaking Islander you dirty tommy
[17:27] (Lupine) Aufk|aren: You gone all cock-up over shagging Maggie?
[17:27] (Aufk|aren) DStewart: You twat! ;)
[17:27] (DStewart) I said a woman.
[17:27] * DStewart waits for the rimshot bait
[17:27] (nharris) buggers
[17:27] (TheTailor) How is it I always look in here at the strangest times?
[17:28] (Lupine) Aufk|aren: tis true.. DStewart isn't no longer a girl, not quiet a lady
[17:28] (BillFrugg) Oh no! Terrible news, folks! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=445148&in_page_id=1773
[17:28] (astrodog) Aufk: DStew is a cunt. :P
[17:28] (TheTailor) What's a blackguard?
[17:28] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: Bugger off you wanker. ;)
[17:28] (td) can we please not use that word
[17:28] (Aufk|aren) TT: Google it. You tosser! ;)
[17:28] (Harsen) td, easy jewhater
[17:28] (astrodog) Aufk: See? Wank. VERB.
[17:28] (td) its offenseive to my sensibilities
[17:28] (td) offensive
[17:28] (astrodog) You cannot be a wanker, unless wank is a verb.
[17:29] (Aufk|aren) Wank is both a noun, adjective and verb.
[17:29] (DStewart) How's that? Is "Hoosi" a verb?
[17:29] (Aufk|aren) Well, maybe not a noun.
[17:29] (BillFrugg) td has sensibilities?
[17:29] (DStewart) There are Hoosiers, but "Hoosi" is not a verb
[17:29] (Aufk|aren) It's definitely a verb and adjective.
[17:29] (Harsen) ACKGUARDIPA pronunciation
[17:29] (Harsen) A man who behaves in a dishonourable or contemptible way.
[17:29] (Lupine) astrodog: oh, he wants enough that he is a wanker
[17:29] (Harsen) ..
[17:30] (BillFrugg) Harsen, that's pronounced 'Democrat'
[17:30] (nharris) Rambo dopplegangers
[17:30] (Aufk|aren) astrodog: Verb: to wank. I like to wank. I take great pleasure in wanking.
[17:30] (Lupine) Aufk|aren frigs off over janet reno's fanny
[17:30] (Harsen) i once saw an alien
[17:30] (DStewart) This has taken a very ugly turn
[17:30] (Aufk|aren) Her cunt flaps are mighty fine.
[17:30] (Harsen) I punched it in the face
[17:30] (KoBushi) Harsen did it then cuss you in spanish?
[17:30] (Harsen) nah it tried to put a probe in me
[17:30] (Harsen) and i shot it with my pistol
[17:31] (Harsen) take that however you want to mean it.
[17:31] (Lupine) Aufk|aren: aye, but was there sauerkraut on the corned beef?
[17:31] (nharris) meat curtains
[17:31] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: I wish there was. :p
[17:31] (Lupine) damn, yer sicker than the germans
[17:31] (CometBaby) men are disgusting
[17:31] (Aufk|aren) You have no idea mate. ;)
[17:32] (Harsen) I hope there are grey aliens who abduct people for real
[17:32] (Harsen) So we can wage war on them
[17:32] (Harsen) and exterminate them
[17:32] (TheTailor) Tosser!
[17:32] (nharris) men fart...and laugh after!
[17:32] (Lupine) grey? not purple or blue?
[17:32] (Harsen) Well i'm pretty sure we'd beat the purple aliens pretty easy
[17:32] * Lupine farts in CometBaby's general direction
[17:32] (Aufk|aren) Grey like a fanny with vaginosis.
[17:32] (Aufk|aren) Almost as smelly too.
[17:32] (td) yuck
[17:32] (td) that is disgusting
[17:32] (Aufk|aren) VAGINOSIS.
[17:33] (nharris) ooof
[17:33] (Aufk|aren) It smells like fish, innit? ;)
[17:33] (Harsen) I don't even know what that is
[17:33] (td) grow up
[17:33] (DStewart) Harsen, wage war on them? Who will do that?
[17:33] (Aufk|aren) td: Fannies, twats and cocks.
[17:33] (Lupine) last night's house.. the guy was diagnosed with vaginosis on the tongue.. they're getting desperate
[17:33] (Harsen) DStewart, Well, we'll have to start with the nations that have spines
[17:33] (DStewart) We'll have to understand how we've offended them.
[17:33] (Harsen) DStewart, So Israel will lead off
[17:33] (Harsen) DStewart, then USA
[17:33] (Harsen) Then I don't know where to go from there.
[17:33] (DStewart) You know how it would go.
[17:33] (FreeTrad3) Abusive Domain or User
[17:33] (DStewart) "What we've done to our planet has made us a galactic pariah."
[17:34] (Harsen) "Shaddap Gore"
[17:34] (Aufk|aren) DStewart: Yep. Then Venutians and Martians are so pissed with us!
[17:34] (DStewart) Then the blame will be traced down to... the USA... and of course, then to George Bush.
[17:34] (Eeyore) DStewart tiy quoting Al Gore?
[17:34] (Eeyore) Al Gore, the man who said, "We are changing the energy balance of the universe"
[17:34] (DStewart) And you fucking well KNOW that's how it would go.
[17:34] (DStewart) Provided it happens in the next 12 years.
[17:34] (BillFrugg) Ted Kazinski believed algore
[17:35] (DStewart) The rules of engagement would then be hedged and hemmed
[17:35] (Eeyore) Ted was msarter than that and Ted knew actual science if not social science
[17:35] (Kalomine) eeyore: did he really say that?
[17:35] (Harsen) "If you shoot at the terrorists, we might offend them and they might attack us, so no shooting while you're deployed in Iraq boys."
[17:35] (Eeyore) Kalomine yeah its in his movie. Gore is a freakin moron
[17:36] (DStewart) Eeyore that cannot be a verbatim quotation.
[17:36] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: OK, this is *mind-twisting*. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGLIuq0NQz0
[17:36] (Eeyore) DStewart he may have said galaxy.
[17:36] (tnzr) I think he said solar system
[17:36] (Eeyore) tnzr even if he did its as stupid but I believe he said galaxy.
[17:36] (BillFrugg) he shouldn't cry over spilt milky way...
[17:36] (tnzr) perhaps even "innter planetary solar system" due to our warmth radiating over to Mars and melting the ol' 'caps
[17:36] (Eeyore) hahahahha
[17:37] (Eeyore) tnzr i hope your not serious
[17:37] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: Wow, that's totally inspiring music.
[17:37] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: I'm so hyped on life now.
[17:37] (Eeyore) as I cant see how a few neon signs are warming up Triton
[17:37] (DStewart) Anyway... after blaming our planet's people, then the USA, then Bush, the demands for negotiation, compliance, and surrender would be made in earnest.
[17:37] (DStewart) The European Union would be first.
[17:37] (td) TEHRAN, Iran - Iran's foreign minister said Wednesday that Britain must admit that its 15 sailors and marines entered Iranian waters in order to resolve a standoff over their capture by Iranian authorities.
[17:37] (Eeyore) oy shrerd metal.
[17:37] (td) thats not gonna work so well
[17:37] (tnzr) Eeyore: sarcasm
[17:37] (DStewart) The Arab League would offer up Israel and the US as a sacrifice
[17:37] (Eeyore) tnzr fair enough
[17:37] (BillFrugg) nuke iran
[17:38] (TheTailor) td, it's not going to work at all.
[17:38] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: Hammerfall is a very popular band in "that part of the world". But, the Swedish Women's Curling Team with Hammerfall... Gglllgglglgl
[17:38] (tnzr) dude
[17:38] (Aufk|aren) td: Not going to happen, because they weren't in Iranian territory.
[17:38] (tnzr) my dad used to have a button on his hat that said "nuke iran"
[17:38] (DStewart) They're asking for a kowtow
[17:38] (Eeyore) i dont suppose anyone here has read Mark Steyn's excellent book, America ALone' have they?
[17:38] (tnzr) in the early 80's
[17:38] (tnzr) :)
[17:38] (Aufk|aren) td: We've already absolutely insisted, with evidence, that they were in Iraqi waters. No way we'll back down now.
[17:38] (Aufk|aren) We'd look like total tossers.
[17:38] (thed0g) heya
[17:38] (DStewart) Look like?
[17:38] (TheTailor) I say sink Iran's navy.
[17:38] (TheTailor) All of it.
[17:38] (DStewart) Tailor, again.
[17:39] (DStewart) But that should have been done several days ago.
[17:39] (gopp) FreeTrad3 do you what the script to the new harry potter movie
[17:39] (Eeyore) tossers. what a great word
[17:39] (tnzr) whats the difference between a tosser and a wanker?
[17:39] (Aufk|aren) TT: I say we sink Iran's navy, then we bomb every single base affiliated with the Revolutionary Guard that we can possibly reach.
[17:39] (thed0g) no
[17:39] (TheTailor) Yeah.
[17:39] (thed0g) thanks anyway
[17:39] (DStewart) What's taking td so long to come to the Iranian position?
[17:39] (thed0g) Auf, Dude, Im feeling you...
[17:39] (thed0g) Very much so.
[17:39] (Aufk|aren) TT: Furthermore, I say we bomb any Iranian station that broadcasted the "confession" of Faye Turney this afternoon.
[17:39] (BillFrugg) thed0g is a poofter!
[17:39] (tnzr) dudes.. April 6
[17:39] (thed0g) We are on the same page on this.
[17:39] (tnzr) Iran Vs. USA
[17:39] (thed0g) haha
[17:39] (gopp) FreeTrad3 you can wonder somties, that part of hidden genius sure, but NO i never hide hahaah
[17:39] (thed0g) No not a poofter.
[17:39] (gopp) :0
[17:39] (Aufk|aren) thed0g: I'm totally feeling you too. I know your cock is like a cocktail sausage, but I'm sure you can find a use for it.
[17:39] (thed0g) Im a brotha
[17:40] (thed0g) Oh please
[17:40] (thed0g) thats crude for this channel
[17:40] (thed0g) especially this time of day
[17:40] (Aufk|aren) Crude like the oil baby.
[17:40] (TheTailor) Iran vs. the Brits, I like that better.
[17:40] (DStewart) I don't.
[17:40] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren one hopes that they dont want to start a military campaighn untill they are ready to do the real one. whihc involves about 2K sorties on various centrifuge sites with MOAB's at the very least
[17:40] (Aufk|aren) It's nearly 2 AM here. I'm drunk. I have no problems with being crude.
[17:40] (DStewart) We should be in it.
[17:40] (TheTailor) We can help :-)
[17:40] (thed0g) Seriously please dont do that, your a great guy.. That is very gross.
[17:40] (DStewart) Actually, NATO should be invoked
[17:40] (Aufk|aren) thed0g: Hahaha... no.
[17:40] (tnzr) the US wouldn't be able to resist lobbing a few MOAB'z
[17:40] (DStewart) z?
[17:41] (thed0g) Auf, hehe.. Well Its 5:39 here and I dont drink ;)
[17:41] (TheTailor) Lobbin?
[17:41] (thed0g) Well water.
[17:41] (tnzr) thats slang for "MOABs"
[17:41] (TheTailor) g
[17:41] (DStewart) Plurals are formed with an "s"
[17:41] (tnzr) lobbing slang for dropping
[17:41] (thed0g) Just went on a long speed walk
[17:41] (tnzr) get with it ya squares
[17:41] (DStewart) Yeah, don't be L7
[17:41] (thed0g) When I say I am feeling ya, It means I am hearing ya, I am wich ya.
[17:41] (gopp) Aufk|aren I agree swe should bomb them
[17:41] (thed0g) I agree bro.
[17:41] (thed0g) How we get there I would use finesse.
[17:42] (Aufk|aren) thed0g: When I say I'm feeling you, I mean it. I'm molesting you.
[17:42] (thed0g) I wouldnt just go bomb then tommorrow.
[17:42] (Aufk|aren) I'm getting my Japanese-man-on-a-subway on.
[17:42] (Eeyore) as m sure at least half of you know, the iranains have about 300 underground sites where they are centrifuging uranium and enrishing up to what, 90%. each site needs to direct hits. one to blow the cover and the second to wrech the equipment. this requires a LOT of precision sorties and will only slow Iran down
[17:42] (thed0g) I would find and excuse like this one or manufacture another one.
[17:42] (tnzr) thed0g: the finesse of a pilot avoiding anti-aircraft while threading the needle with a bunker buster!
[17:42] (tnzr) oh not that finesse?
[17:42] (thed0g) What ever happened to the days of good old covert operations when it was no sin to manufacture an incident which favored your national security
[17:42] (DStewart) Yes, this has been manufactured as an excuse.
[17:42] (tnzr) Eeyore: of course, we know now, because you as a UN weapons inspector said so
[17:43] (thed0g) Send a F22 into their air space.
[17:43] (Aufk|aren) thed0g: No need to manufacture incidents when the Iranians provide them for us.
[17:43] (Eeyore) tnzr this is fairly common knowledge.
[17:43] (thed0g) and let the heat signature show
[17:43] (tnzr) Eeyore: why isnt it emblazoned all over the airwaves then
[17:43] (DStewart) Auf, you're not understanding: THIS ONE was manufactured.
[17:43] (thed0g) since its stealth
[17:43] (Aufk|aren) DStewart: By the Iranians, yes.
[17:43] (DStewart) No, no.
[17:43] (tnzr) Eeyore: iraq's WMD's far from common knowledge and everyone seemed way more certain about those
[17:43] (Aufk|aren) DStewart: Not by the Brits.
[17:43] (tnzr) (just sayin')
[17:43] (BillFrugg) send covert agent plame in to assassinate ahmydinnasbad!
[17:44] (DStewart) Yes, by the brits and US!
[17:44] (Eeyore) tnzr it has been. however I have a BBC documentary from last year on A Q Khan I have been begging people to accept from me as a bit torrent whihc details exactluy how they work and where they are
[17:44] (thed0g) I wonder how americans would feel about a war with Iran, You would think they might be more favorably desposed..
[17:44] (DStewart) The poodle did it for the chimp.
[17:44] (thed0g) Any polls lately ?
[17:44] (tnzr) Eeyore: is it the one that talks about Natanz, shows the AA emplacements, etc?
[17:44] (gopp) DStewart http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c
[17:44] (gopp) HERITAGE FOUNDATION: "How Modern Liberals Think"
[17:44] (gopp) so great
[17:44] (Aufk|aren) DStewart: no way! It must have been engineered by Mossad, in order to fulfill the aims of a secret alliance betwen the Reptilians and Illuminati.
[17:44] (tnzr) Eeyore: i might be thinking of a Frontline WORLD about iran's nuclear ambitions
[17:44] (Eeyore) tnzr not the same thing at all. tnzr try gogle A. Q. Khan and iranian uranium refinment
[17:44] (Aufk|aren) If you doubt that, the wool is being PULLED OVER YOUR EYES.
[17:44] (tnzr) Eeyore: ok
[17:44] (thed0g) assinating armiminininijad, dont even try that... Wouldnt help us one bit it would hurt us.
[17:44] (BillFrugg) error, gopp... Liberals _don't_ think
[17:44] (tnzr) i have to run to homeslice and pick up a pizza first
[17:44] (DStewart) Auf, well, the Mossad definitely. Not the lizards and illuminati. They don't exist.
[17:44] (thed0g) He gives us an excuse if anything to attack them.
[17:45] (Aufk|aren) Let's assasinate Khamanei. :)
[17:45] (DStewart) Yes, an excuse.
[17:45] (gopp) You sir must bathe yourself in the moisture of Rosie O'Donnell's soiled and bloodstained underwear yea you libeals
[17:45] (gopp) liberal
[17:45] (DStewart) Which is what this all is.
[17:45] (Eeyore) thed0g actually the persian people want to be western. they hate Amenidejihad
[17:45] (thed0g) He provides excuses frequently, and a profile of who he is would be a favorable one for an attack.
[17:45] (tnzr) gopp: stop pasting other people's jokes
[17:45] (tnzr) gopp: you clearly didn't make that up. it's spelled correctly.
[17:45] (tnzr) :)
[17:45] * tnzr afk
[17:45] (BillFrugg) lol
[17:45] (Eeyore) haha
[17:45] (WyldOcsar) I really hope that the totally insane iranian government is overthrown by its citizens many of whom have real problems with it.
[17:45] (td) if the persian people want to be western, why did they 1979 revolution happen?
[17:45] (Lupine) tnzr: but more importantly, there are more five words between enter key
[17:45] (thed0g) Look I know I think about as much about the politics of the middle east as about (Emphasis on about) any one here.
[17:45] (spman-) hmph
[17:46] (BillFrugg) gopp has been skewered!
[17:46] (gopp) hmm
[17:46] (gopp) ""Pacifists are among the most immoral of men.
[17:46] (gopp) They make no distinction between aggression and defense.
[17:46] (gopp) Therefore, pacifism is one of the greatest allies an aggressor can have!
[17:46] (gopp) by Patrick Henry"
[17:46] (Eeyore) td how many people took part in that?
[17:46] (td) millions
[17:46] (thed0g) I know the Iranian people are A) neither our enemy, nor B) Favorably disposed to their government as a generality (Some are).
[17:46] (thed0g) But a lot of them would love to live the way we live.
[17:46] (BillFrugg) thed0g, they do? addicted to internet pr0n?
[17:46] (thed0g) And I realize an attack on Iran would probably solidify support for Iran amongst the native population which would be a negative of the war.
[17:47] (Eeyore) gopp thats too kind. true but not the whole picture. generally people who call themselves pacificsts are lieing. they usually just want to advertise thier moral supriority. They want to fight but just not on this side
[17:47] (td) Iran has real conservatism :)
[17:47] (DStewart) Ah, and so we have the transformation of autocracy into democracy by the appeal to the fact that the people WANT the autocracy... therefore it's democratic.
[17:47] (thed0g) But if we wait for the iranians to do it for us, we will wait till they have a 10 head nuclear ICBM...
[17:47] (TheTailor) td, maybe those in the revolution had the firepower.
[17:47] (DStewart) I knew I could count on td.
[17:47] (gopp) well "A people without a heritage are easily persuaded (deceived)" - Karl Marx
[17:47] * Lupine actually saw someone wearing a burqa the other day. Given the um, "girth" it was probably a good thing
[17:47] * gopp thanks to Lupine Thanks to the Liberals, yesterday's deviants are today's "alternate lifestyles
[17:48] (Eeyore) Lupine I was thinking of opening a Bhurka shop. I was gonna call it, "cohen's burka's. you can have it in any color you want as long as its black'
[17:48] (Lupine) lol
[17:48] (gopp) lol joke
[17:48] (thed0g) Lupine, If someone voluntarily wants to wear one who cares, I sure dont.. But the key is voluntarily.... Freedom to choose.
[17:48] (thed0g) But I appreciate the comedy factor.
[17:49] (gopp) Lupine I have no problem with buraqs
[17:49] (gopp) it thier choice
[17:49] (gopp) if they are not forced to wear one who cares
[17:49] (Lupine) i dont either.. just remarking that was the first time I can recall seeing one
[17:49] (gopp) Lupine you never seen one in the usa
[17:49] (gopp) wtf
[17:49] (Eeyore) I met a woman at a bar recently and I told her how good I thought she would look in a burka. I dont know why she hit me just then
[17:49] (gopp) wow I see 100 of them everyday
[17:49] (gopp) in nj
[17:49] (gopp) it normal
[17:49] (Lupine) there's plenty who wear head scarves
[17:49] (DStewart) The perverted political relativism of the left today: Presuming all the rights of America and freedoms of western civilization, and using them as an argument that those who don't have them are choosing by their culture not to have them.
[17:50] (Lupine) gopp: full burqa's?
[17:50] (thed0g) Well there is a logical reason as usual for them.. In the middle east the heavy converings both insulate from the sun and they help in sand storms, which is why they are prevalent in that part of the world but not in most other Islamic countries.
[17:50] (DStewart) thedog, so why don't the men wear them?
[17:50] (thed0g) being black makes no sense though since it absorbs heat.
[17:50] (thed0g) White makes more sense.
[17:51] (thed0g) Actually they do..
[17:51] (DStewart) White's too sexy
[17:51] (Eeyore) DStewart yes its what I call 'Intelectual slight of hand'. its like when you teach an idiot one good card trick for parties. thats how cultural relativism works. there is a sure fire win though which Im sure you aleady know when you meet these guys. just mention Suttee
[17:51] (thed0g) Only they call the robes.
[17:51] (DStewart) They do? Yeah, when they're trying to escape capture.
[17:51] (thed0g) And turbins or headdress
[17:51] (DStewart) Robes aren't burqas
[17:51] (thed0g) No they do.
[17:51] (thed0g) They do less because of air conditioning and western cultures influence on them.
[17:51] (gopp) Lupine yes full
[17:51] (thed0g) but it is the traditional garb of a bedoin.
[17:51] (gopp) it normal
[17:51] (gopp) well not 100
[17:51] (DStewart) Eeyore, nah... rape should do.
[17:51] (gopp) but full all black
[17:51] (gopp) I see twice
[17:51] (DStewart) But now... it doesn't.
[17:52] (gopp) seen twice
[17:52] (gopp) in my community college in a very hot day
[17:52] (gopp) I saw one female all covered
[17:52] (gopp) even sun glasses
[17:52] (gopp) all black
[17:52] (thed0g) Anyway its a trivial issue to my interests.
[17:52] (gopp) I was is she crazy
[17:52] (gopp) not becuase of her prefernce
[17:52] (DStewart) Now, rape is going to gain acceptance because it is accepted by certain acculturations of Islam.
[17:52] (gopp) but becuase black and heat
[17:52] (Eeyore) DStewart to my shock, many western feminists in Scandinavia are starting to say that women are responsable for the rapes by mulsims because they dress provocativly and thats thier culture. amzing. but true.
[17:52] (thed0g) My interests are stability in the middle east and the US national interest.
[17:52] (thed0g) And to a lessor degree but not a negligent degree our allies national interests, and the worlds.
[17:53] (Eeyore) DStewart already is. want a link?
[17:53] (DStewart) And if any Moslems integrate rape into their culture, western leftist intellectuals will accept it.
[17:53] (thed0g) Since it is a global economy we live in.
[17:53] (DStewart) Eeyore, we've already gone over those... that's where I'm going.
[17:53] (thed0g) and it doesnt benifit us if any country suffers economic hardship which we do buisness with.
[17:53] (Eeyore) ah. cool. nm then :*)
[17:53] (DStewart) Where's ChronoZ to call me a racist for bringing it up though?
[17:53] (thed0g) Common misconception of protectionists..
[17:53] (observer) lol
[17:54] (Eeyore) DStewart I have a better question. where the fuck is Noam Chomski and his relativist BS when it comes to speech codes in university campuses?
[17:54] (DStewart) Eeyore, here's the thing.
[17:54] (thed0g) Noam Chomsky, I can't believe people even discuss him anymore..
[17:54] (gopp) td td td Another example of the only response a liberal's capable of: personal attack, vicious innuendo, and school-yard name calling. Facts are uncomfortable nuisances to a liberal, for their views always crumble in face of them.
[17:54] (thed0g) You know I will say this, the 15 years or so I have been here, he is brought up very much less often than he used to be.
[17:54] (gopp) rightooo was qouting noam chomsky today
[17:54] (gopp) on some polls
[17:54] * Eeyore has been chased out of other chanels as a racist for objecting to philsophies that are retrograde to civil rights and liberties. somehow a philosophy/religion is a race now
[17:55] (thed0g) So I do think he has lost political favor over the years, and why not, hes a freaking flat out liar.
[17:55] (DStewart) That Swedish woman professor who said that Swedish women would have to change their behavior to avoid rape, because they were now in a multicultural society in which the Moslems considered their dress provocative and justification for rape...
[17:55] (Eeyore) thed0g doesnt mean we cant point at him and laugh now
[17:55] (thed0g) I was reading some of his writings and quickly he told two very obvious lies about america and american society.
[17:55] (gopp) thed0g how does he get away with this lies
[17:55] (bun-bun) DS: whats wrong with you.. isn't blaming the victim the right thing to do?
[17:55] (thed0g) True, but i would rather leave him to the ash heap of history
[17:55] (gopp) thed0g how does he get away with this lies???
[17:56] (gopp) Another example of the only response a liberal's capable of: personal attack, vicious innuendo, and school-yard name calling. Facts are uncomfortable nuisances to a liberal, for their views always crumble in face of them.
[17:56] (DStewart) Why was she so shallow that she couldn't say instead, "Look, it's a multicultural society. Moslem men are just going to have to understand that the loose dress of Swedish women is considered nonprovocative."
[17:56] (bun-bun) how about "Look it's a multicultural society with laws.. follow them"
[17:56] (Eeyore) thed0g there is a great book called 'The Chomski reader' where an author actually traced all his facts and quotes to teh source. turns out most where from his own previous books and some to obscure 1940s and 50s commie newspapers in new york.
[17:57] (thed0g) And his name dissapear from the face of the earth unlike Archilles and Hectar
[17:57] (TheTailor) Soooo, do Muslim men have to rape all the women when they go to the titty bar?
[17:57] (gopp) DStewart what are you talking about
[17:57] (thed0g) What ?
[17:57] (TheTailor) Or do they have to pay like the rest of us?
[17:57] (Eeyore) oh! and I have a good doc. called 100 lies of Noam chomski if anyone wants it
[17:57] (bun-bun) TT: I think so.. after all self control and proper behavior.. they don't mean anything :)
[17:57] (yowz|) hey, i like titty bars...we can rape the women there now?
[17:57] (gopp) you can't even touch
[17:57] (bun-bun) yowz you have to convert first
[17:57] (gopp) girls at the tity bar
[17:57] (thed0g) Why are we bashing muslims ?
[17:57] (gopp) some fool
[17:57] (gopp) get injured by a big tit
[17:57] (TheTailor) yowz|, I always have to pay.
[17:57] (gopp) so they made a law
[17:58] (gopp) no touching
[17:58] (gopp) rember
[17:58] (gopp) that guy who sued
[17:58] (gopp) after getting hit big big jugs
[17:58] (Eeyore) ?
[17:58] (Eeyore) WHAT??
[17:58] (gopp) by
[17:58] * Eeyore needs to know about this
[17:58] (gopp) yea some guy at a nude bar got hit by big jugs
[17:58] (gopp) and sued
[17:58] (thed0g) I must be missing something.
[17:58] (TheTailor) thed0g, we aren't, it seems they are raping more often than others when women dress scantily.
[17:58] (gopp) he was knocked out
[17:58] (Lupine) intersting.. according to this show on the Military Channel.. they used F-4 wild weasels on the first night of Desert Storm
[17:58] (|ssss|) check this out, http://chinmanlolangry.ytmnd.com/
[17:58] (thed0g) TT And your scientific source for that assertion ?
[17:59] (yowz|) i say this at the risk of getting kicked....i want non-american citizen moslems to go home...all of them. let them reapply for visas, we'll review each one on a one by one basis...but for now, it's back to the homeland
[17:59] (Eeyore) sued for what?) and for the love of god tell that man never to visit a farm or we are eating margarine for the rest of our lives
[17:59] (DStewart) thanks, TheDog. Someone to accuse me of racism for pointing out that some muslims think rape is appropriate response to provocation.
[17:59] (gopp) Lupine but the military is to consertive say the liberals
[17:59] (TheTailor) thed0g, scientific?
[17:59] (thed0g) I dont think thats provable at all. and I wouldnt make that accusation.
[17:59] (Harsen) http://www.house.gov/pelosi/priraq1.htm
[17:59] (Harsen) http://www.house.gov/pelosi/priraq1.htm
[17:59] (|ssss|) yowz|: why let them reapply
[17:59] (gopp) I Once heard aliberal say that the military channel is proganda from bush
[17:59] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: You ever seen the Battlefield TV series? Battlefield: Stalingrad, Battlefield: Kursk and so on?
[17:59] (yeliab) do people who affiliate with the GOP generally like dennis miller?
[17:59] (thed0g) DS So do some christians.. I dont know enough about jews to comment.
[17:59] (yowz|) ssss...because my great grandfather was an irishman nobody wanted
[17:59] (DStewart) thedog, really? What Christians?
[17:59] (TheTailor) thed0g, I didn't make an accusation, I said it "seems".
[17:59] (|ssss|) yowz|: the irish are respectable
[18:00] (|ssss|) totally different class of people
[18:00] (Lupine) Aufk|aren: Yep.. great series
[18:00] (gopp) Lupine Another example of the only response a liberal's capable of: personal attack, vicious innuendo, and school-yard name calling. Facts are uncomfortable nuisances to a liberal, for their views always crumble in face of them.
[18:00] (DStewart) http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/02/muslim-rape-epidemic-in-sweden-and.html
[18:00] (thed0g) DS, Well we call them preists sometimes, and my wifes friend whose husband anytime she tries to refuse sex hits her on the head with the bible.
[18:00] (DStewart) http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/07/norwegian-government-covering-up.html
[18:00] (Eeyore) gopp the new left thinks anything true is propaganda the way 1980s feminists thought anything derived from logic was male and therfore not relevent
[18:00] (thed0g) She told my wife the other day she wished she had a husband like me which was nice to hear ;)
[18:00] (DStewart) http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/08/rape-nothing-to-do-with-islam.html
[18:00] (gopp) td Your hate-filled diatribe says everything about you and nothing about Bush and the great United States.
[18:00] (yowz|) personally...i want all cuban resturaunt owners who tried to have an internet call in show that wouldn't let his callers talk to his sister......deported
[18:00] (Lupine) anyways, they said that the F-117's were not used on the AAA concentrated at the border. After they struck bagdad/etc.. they had a fleet of drones flying over the boarder as if a regular plane attack
[18:01] (TheTailor) thed0g...Muslim Rape Epidemic in Sweden and Norway - Authorities Look the Other Way
[18:01] (gopp) Eeyore good one
[18:01] (DStewart) the dog, actually no, priests don't think that.
[18:01] (TheTailor) http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/02/muslim-rape-epidemic-in-sweden-and.html
[18:01] (thed0g) I dont read many blogs, I dont really care a lot for most peoples opinions. I am very selective about what blogs I will read.
[18:01] (thed0g) Sometimes some friends blogs.
[18:01] (DStewart) http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20646
[18:01] (td) gopp: nice cut and paste
[18:01] (Lupine) wild weasels were hugging the desert at just a few hundred feet.. waiting for the radars to turn on
[18:01] (|ssss|) gulf of tonkin all over again
[18:01] (DStewart) "Western Muslims' Racist Rape Spree"
[18:01] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: I loved it. The only downside was the lack of interviews with actual combatants. Beyond that, it was the most detailed, no-nonsense series I've ever seen.
[18:01] (DStewart) Yes, it's GULF OF TONKIN!
[18:01] (gopp) Lupine wow cool
[18:01] (thed0g) But blogs are the bane of the internet and they have a positive value as we saw in Dan Rather Gate.
[18:01] (DStewart) ssss, hey, what happened at the Gulf of Tonkin?
[18:01] (thed0g) People cite them as facts.
[18:01] (gopp) yowz| fuck you :)
[18:02] (|ssss|) one of the biggest false flag ops in history
[18:02] (gopp) yowz| my sister is taken already
[18:02] (gopp) :)
[18:02] (DStewart) sss, yes, tell me what happened. Don't characterize it.
[18:02] (yowz|) i personally know...an american scandanavian girl.....who tied up w/ an iranian in college, had 2 kids, divorced...he goes home, takes kids.....she's screwed like a housecat
[18:02] (gopp) unless you can afford a 90 k ring
[18:02] (Eeyore) thed0g thats fair. at the same time the mainstream media is in fact crippled by laws that make it imposeble for them to state things whihc are TRUE if they violate politially correct laws. so blogs are often a better source. of course it depends on the blog. like life itself, one must apply reason to what we see to determine its truthfullness as opposed to the credentials. I think its better this way
[18:02] (|ssss|) some torpedo boats did some shit or other
[18:02] (|ssss|) but they never existed
[18:02] (DStewart) Whose torpedo boats?
[18:02] (gopp) yowz| was she able to ever get the kid back
[18:02] (Aufk|aren) Woot, Scanindavian girls.
[18:02] (|ssss|) NV
[18:02] (yowz|) nope
[18:02] (DStewart) They never existed?
[18:02] (DStewart) So what happened?
[18:02] (gopp) yowz| that sucks
[18:02] (JupaSaur) larry king live on cnn coming up now looks interesting tonigh. stuff on the captured brit marines and then some other interesting stuff
[18:02] (|ssss|) go look it up, it's all out there
[18:03] (gopp) yowz| he took them back to iran
[18:03] (Eeyore) thed0g for example in my city I know when a black man commits a violent crime becayse they give no description of the person the police are looking for. when its a white man they give a full one
[18:03] (DStewart) sss, okay....so nonexistent torpedo boats...
[18:03] (thed0g) But then my friend won the award many years ago for the best kirby vaccum cleaner sellor in the country. And he used to tell me some tips, which seem to have a grain of truth to them at the least. One is if you write it down people believe you, which is why salesman are very anxious to get you to sit down with a pen and paper.
[18:03] (DStewart) ssss, so... the NV torpedo boats were nonexistent.
[18:03] (yowz|) gopp, i "might come to nyc in july, you going to give me a free burger if i bring half a dozen other people w/me?
[18:03] (DStewart) ssss, what is the nonexistent entity in this Iranian capture incident?
[18:03] (thed0g) And he had another saying, of course he was in hard sales.. He would say if you can get them mad you can get them sold.
[18:04] (JupaSaur) something that is almost funny but very sad actually is that the brits and the americans are complaing about things such as the female brit marine being under duress when she confessed and made her video tape and cruel conditions of the brit marines captures and confinement etc etc etc. yet so far none of it is a bad as the u.s. kidnapping arabs, putting them in gitmo, waterboarding and other torture, and rendition to countries that t
[18:04] (|ssss|) In August of 1964, United States President Lyndon B. Johnson claimed that North Vietnamese forces had twice attacked American destroyers in the Gulf of Tonkin. Although there was a first attack (in response to U.S. equipped and orchestrated South Vietnam's commando raids on the coast [1]), claims of a second attack were later proven to be unfounded.
[18:04] (JupaSaur) and the really sad thing is these young, brave, brit marines are in the condition they are in because bush and blair illegally invaded iraq, allow torture of prisoners, kidnipp people from other countries, etc etc etc -- and those young, brave, brit marines are innocent of the atrocities of bush and blair but could end up taking the punishment that bush and blair should be taking
[18:04] (Eeyore) yowz| there is a terreble yet factual movie about that called 'Not without my daughter' on exactly that subject. its quite common
[18:04] (gopp) why do But back on point: liberals use sexist, racist, homophobic, reactionary, consensus, etc. to STIFLE debate before it starts.
[18:04] (gopp) Eeyore yea I saw that movie twice
[18:04] (thed0g) Eeyore, So because in your city they dont identify a black man, (they do in the bay area, sf and berkeley) what does that mean as a generalization other than the press is idiotic and too PC in your community.
[18:04] (|ssss|) the nonexistent entity is the fact that they were indeed in iranian territory
[18:04] (gopp) that movie is good
[18:04] (DStewart) ssss, cool. So what's unfounded in this Iranian capture of British soldiers?
[18:04] (DStewart) sss, that's not a nonexistent entity.
[18:04] (|ssss|) they are just trying to provoke or make excuse for a war
[18:04] (|ssss|) isn't it obvious?
[18:05] (gopp) JupaSaur are you anti bush
[18:05] (DStewart) No, it's not obvious
[18:05] (|ssss|) it is to me
[18:05] (Eeyore) thed0g thats all it means. other than what I was trying to say, whihc is i dont think of the mainstream news as more than a PR tool for current fasions in information disemination
[18:05] (yowz|) in the US, christians/jews/athiests/agnostics........seem to get along. where do moslems fit in when you need a cab ride home from a bar, and you're intoxicated?
[18:05] (DStewart) And those with the technology and witnesses actually say they weren't in Iranian water.
[18:05] (TheTailor) JupaSaur, Bush and Blair are not responsible for any atrocities.
[18:05] (|ssss|) who the cia?
[18:05] (|ssss|) lol
[18:05] (astrodog) ssss: Do you really see this administration bothering to make excuses, if they really wanted to go to war?
[18:05] (astrodog) :P
[18:05] (thed0g) there is no more evidence that muslims commit rape any more than Christians, because we simply cant know.. We dont have that kind of data and I dont believe its even obtainable.
[18:05] (DStewart) Moreover, even if they had been... that wouldn't normally dictate their capture.
[18:05] (thed0g) thats the finality of it.
[18:05] (|ssss|) astrodog: they made up info for iraq didn't they?
[18:05] (Eeyore) oh yeah this is also an excellent article about women, and islamic nations http://www.meforum.org/article/794
[18:05] (DStewart) ssss, no, they didn't for Iraq, either.
[18:06] (JupaSaur) actually gopp i supported bush the first time he ran but not the second time. and i detest what bush has done to the republican party, the american people, and to the constittuion of the u.s.
[18:06] (DStewart) But you know that.
[18:06] (TheTailor) thed0g, I'm not so sure, in that small population they may be.
[18:06] (astrodog) ssss: Being wrong, is different than making it up.
[18:06] (yowz|) i'd like reid and pelosi to explain the $100 million going to presidential conventions.....instead of to the military effort
[18:06] (Eeyore) thed0g it is, and it is. They know in Scandinavia who is doing what.
[18:06] (|ssss|) hahh "oops i was wrong when i stole your money, not a theif"
[18:06] (Eeyore) thed0g read the brussels journal
[18:06] (DStewart) ssss, actually, and no, not the CIA, but the Brits.
[18:06] (DStewart) Also Americans.
[18:06] (gopp) astrodog bush was mislead but he didn't made it up or lied
[18:06] (gopp) sss didn't clinton sanction Iraq leading to the deaths of a million iraqi children?
[18:06] (|ssss|) being "wrong" at that level is just as bad as lying as far as i'm concerned
[18:06] (gopp) sss not wrong
[18:06] (gopp) mislead
[18:07] (astrodog) gopp: Bush was wrong. *shrug*.
[18:07] (gopp) or wrong information
[18:07] (DStewart) Thank god your concern doesn't matter.
[18:07] (gopp) astranaft bush was mislead could be seen as wrong know
[18:07] (gopp) astrodog not wrong then
[18:07] (gopp) astrodog at the moment bush was not wrong
[18:07] (yowz|) astrodog, is pelosi and reid wrong on voting to fund $100 million for presidential conventions?
[18:07] (gopp) he was mislead
[18:07] (|ssss|) and i don't think they were "misled" when cabinet members who left say they were planning on attacking iraq from the getgo
[18:07] (DStewart) ssss, so in other words, there is not even a colorable parallel to the Gulf of Tonkin.
[18:07] (astrodog) gopp: When you're mislead, you're still wrong, even if there's nothing you can do about it.
[18:07] (gopp) |ssss| more liberal bia
[18:07] (gopp) s
[18:07] (DStewart) ssss, who said that?
[18:07] (thed0g) I supported Bush both times, Unapologetically, and I am glad I did.. He has done the right thing even considering his mistakes. If you analyse especially his second term considering what he had to deal with katrina and other pressures as well as the war its remarkable how strong he has stood.
[18:07] (thed0g) I am proud of him.
[18:07] (gopp) |ssss| you keep reading pual kurgman
[18:08] (yowz|) when the military's broke, no money to bring them home, then what?
[18:08] (Eeyore) |ssss| well of course the fact that Clinton signed a bill into law saying tht Sadam had to go for violations of oil for food doesnt count for anyting
[18:08] (thed0g) Yes hes fallible Reagan didnt have a very good second term either by comparison but they rarely do.
[18:08] (|ssss|) bush is the worst president ever in history.. that's an impressive accomplishment
[18:08] (JupaSaur) bush screwed up the katrina response horribly.
[18:08] (DStewart) He's actually pretty good.
[18:08] (thed0g) Anyway, I have to split for a bit.. SSSS thas totally absurd.....
[18:08] (BillFrugg) I'm glad about Iraq! about damned time someone did something about Saddam!
[18:08] (yowz|) jupasaur, what does that say for new orlean's mayor....louisiana's governor?
[18:08] (Eeyore) thed0g here here and thank you for saying it its very refreching to read. I might add, that even if it doesnt work and ends as a disater its STILL was the right thing to do
[18:08] (BillFrugg) what? worse than clinton? Carter?
[18:09] (yowz|) they were first in line to get things done
[18:09] (DStewart) ssss, so in other words, there is not even a colorable parallel to the Gulf of Tonkin.
[18:09] (JupaSaur) yowz| they are guilty too
[18:09] (thed0g) Katrina was never Bushs responsibility and in fact the coast guard (federal) did an amazing job.
[18:09] (TheTailor) |ssss| wasn't around for Carter.
[18:09] (|ssss|) i'd rather have clinton for 12 years than bush for 4
[18:09] (thed0g) A comendable job..
[18:09] (gopp) |ssss| Small "L" liberals are simply socialistic. They view themselves as the intelligencia and want to dictate
[18:09] (|ssss|) wasn't bush's responsibility? are you high?
[18:09] (Eeyore) |ssss| works for me they did the same things with the sme information. in fact things would be about the same
[18:09] (gopp) What you eat
[18:09] (gopp) what you drive
[18:09] (thed0g) Look at the fucking idiot mayor of New orleans and the governor of Louisiana and GOD for having the hurricane if you want a scapegoat.
[18:09] (yowz|) jupasaur....what does that say for louisiana's senator that commandeered a national guard helicopter that could be used for saving people....to go go his house and pull $90k out of his freezer?
[18:09] (gopp) What you read, watch, listen to
[18:09] (TheTailor) |ssss|, yes, you would disregard the constitution.
[18:09] * thed0g away
[18:10] (Eeyore) thed0g dont go now we need ya
[18:10] (|ssss|) nixon had troops on the ground 6 hours after camille
[18:10] (|ssss|) not weeks
[18:10] (DStewart) Not weeks? Wow.
[18:10] (DStewart) That's just a lie.
[18:10] (BillFrugg) I agree about Katrina. Bush should have arrested Blanco and Nagin for incompetence
[18:10] (TheTailor) |ssss|, and Bush had Coast Guard in the air withing the hour after Katrina passed, picking people off rooftops.
[18:10] (JupaSaur) thed0g the coast did a great job. i had the opportunity to talk face to face with adm collins, uscg commandant during katrina and you would not believe just how prepared and how great a jog the coast guard didl. the uscg did everything right. they are heros in my book
[18:10] (|ssss|) bush did? right..
[18:11] (Eeyore) |ssss| actually Bush asked the mayor of NO and the governor of luisiana to let him send troops in days before. they refused. the US constitution forbids the feds to send troops in if not allowd by the sate
[18:11] (TheTailor) Yes, Bush did, and he declared it a disaster area days prior.
[18:11] (Eeyore) exactly
[18:11] (Eeyore) then of course they blamed Bush
[18:11] (Eeyore) hey |ssss| ever see that great picture of those hundreds of school busses under water?
[18:11] (Eeyore) you know, the ones they didnt use to evacuate people?
[18:12] (Eeyore) but the ones they DID use to bus everyone to the polls to vote democrat?
[18:12] (JupaSaur) bush had little or nothing to do with the uscg response. they were way ahead of bush and everyone else. the uscg was doing what they do and do very well all on its own initiiatve
[18:12] (|ssss|) jupasaur: but bushies will claim credit, don't you know that
[18:12] (TheTailor) JupaSaur, Bush is their commander.
[18:12] (|ssss|) they claim credit for anything good, and know nothing about anything bad
[18:12] (yowz|) jupasaur, so you're saying that bush had/has control over the louisiana national guard?
[18:13] (JupaSaur) yes -- he had them in iraq under dod command
[18:13] (|ssss|) how about waco? they didn't mind sending feds in on that
[18:13] (Eeyore) yowz| he is probably saying that Bush sent the huricane. you know... Global warming and all that
[18:13] (yowz|) jupasaur, the governor of louisiana had no control over his command?
[18:13] (abum) 3 million iraqis have fled the country
[18:13] (Eeyore) |ssss| that was the FBI not the military
[18:13] (JupaSaur) the lack of available ng in this country and udner the command of the governors was a big part of the poor response to katrina
[18:13] (|ssss|) bush can break the law for any reason except to help US citizens
[18:13] (Eeyore) oy
[18:14] (TheTailor) Eeyore, ATF I think.
[18:14] (|ssss|) eeyore: actually it was batf
[18:14] (TheTailor) |ssss|, break what law?
[18:14] (|ssss|) pick any
[18:14] (_HellMngr) The total incompetence of LA's administration and police forces contributed LOTS to katrina.
[18:14] (_HellMngr) Far more than Bush
[18:14] (Eeyore) |ssss| i see you hate Bush and even though all your points have been properly and reasonably refuted you will merely lead us around in circles cause really its a religion for you. OK fine. lots of repubs are like that about Clinton as well. but its not a good way to think. its not thinking at all really.
[18:14] (TheTailor) |ssss|, you are getting tiresome, stick to the facts.
[18:15] (JupaSaur) cut the crap. bush did not send the hurricane. that is a typical bush can do know wrong smoke and mirrors distraction. bush failed in the respons to katrin. heck for the first few days he was in california making speeches and fiddling while katrina drowned
[18:15] (Yaakov) It seems to me that the problem in New Orleans was that THERE WAS A FREAKING HUGE STORM THAT FLOODED MOST OF THE CITY.
[18:15] (yowz|) jupasaur, let's speed this up to today......new orleans, for all practical purposes, is a slough, a swamp............do you favor putting YOUR tax dollars into rebuilding back in the same location with the possibility that al gore might be right, and the seas may be rising?
[18:15] (Yaakov) Also that most people there were 20 minutes from homeless.
[18:15] (DStewart) by the way, sss: There were troops in the areas hit by Katrina BEFORE the hurricane hit.
[18:15] (|ssss|) bush is terrible.. really bad
[18:15] (TheTailor) JupaSaur, well no, aqnd you need to stick to the facts too, Bush declared NO an disaster area days prior to Katrina.
[18:15] (Yaakov) Some one proposed a Venice-like solution. I though that was interesting.
[18:16] (Eeyore) Yaakov that and many people decided not to do anytihng for themselves and let govt. save them and then shot at govt when it tried to. culture of entitlement. the future of US and Europe now.
[18:16] (_HellMngr) Yeah
[18:16] (Eeyore) bbiab checkin the chicken
[18:16] (abum) w.p.e.
[18:16] (t0tgiglz) ssss youe quit boring
[18:16] (DStewart) The only place where the Guard wasn't in action in time was New Orleans... because Blanco didn't ask for them in a timely manner.
[18:16] (_HellMngr) How the fuck are you going to shoot at the people coming to save you?
[18:16] (_HellMngr) Katrina was bizarre.
[18:16] (starly) |ssss|, you are devoiced (Requested by TheTailor - Reason: Enough already )
[18:16] (DStewart) And ssss, you know the governor has to ask for them.
[18:16] (t0tgiglz) oh good i dont have to iggy him
[18:16] (t0tgiglz) ty tt
[18:16] (_HellMngr) LA is and always has been incredibly corrupt.
[18:16] (DStewart) Bush can't just order them in for a domestic operation.
[18:16] (abum) wtf is a t0tgiglz!
[18:16] (t0tgiglz) abummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[18:17] (DStewart) It's illegal. And you'd be bitching about his doing it if he had.
[18:17] (DStewart) Calling him Hitler.
[18:17] (JupaSaur) "like Nero fiddling while Rome burned, Bush was fiddling around on his Texas ranch and giving political speeches -- while New Orleans and the Gulf coast was and is being destroyed and suffering from the aftermath of Katrina" http://mozillaquest.com/News-General/Save-New-Orleans-Gulf-Katrina_Story01.html
[18:17] (TheTailor) JupaSaur, Nero didn't fiddle.
[18:17] (DStewart) Wow, what a factual story, JupaSaur.
[18:17] (_HellMngr) Nero did'nt fiddle?
[18:18] (TheTailor) JupaSaur, did you think Bush would be out there rebuilding the city?
[18:18] (Harsen) Orleans and the Gulf Coast
[18:18] (Harsen) MozillaQuest Magazine OpEd
[18:18] (JupaSaur) TheTailor declaring no a disaster area and doing something about it are two different things
[18:18] (Harsen) How authoritative!
[18:18] (yowz|) jupasaur, please give me a time frame, when did the NO mayor, the La. governor, La. senator request help.....compared to the time frame bush responded? i don't know the answer, apparently you do
[18:18] (JupaSaur) yowz| i already said the mayor and governor are to blame too
[18:19] (TheTailor) JupaSaur, Bush did do something about it, as I said earlier, the Coast Guard was there immediately after the storm passed.
[18:19] (_HellMngr) the mayor and governor are the ones most responsible for the problem.
[18:19] (_HellMngr) They suck.
[18:19] (yowz|) Jupasaur, so you're saying you want the feds to be the first to respond?
[18:19] (Eeyore) DStewart yes thats how it works exactly. a lose lose for bush
[18:19] (_HellMngr) I can't believe those clowns kept their jobs
[18:19] (TheTailor) JupaSaur, and DStewart just mentioned the national guard was also there, come to think of it, I think our Texas NG was there too.
[18:19] (_HellMngr) My buddy got deployed to the houston reliant center
[18:19] (yowz|) jupasaur....you have shown, you haven't a clue as to what transpired on katrina.
[18:20] (_HellMngr) where he got to kick down bathroom stall doors on people smoking crack.
[18:20] (JupaSaur) bah. you bush zealots just cannot stand the truth
[18:20] (yowz|) jupasaur, please, PLEASE....show me the truth!
[18:20] (t0tgiglz) another idiot iggied
[18:20] (Eeyore_AF) dang
[18:20] (t0tgiglz) hey eeyore
[18:21] (Eeyore_AF) hey t0tgiglz
[18:21] (JupaSaur) bush was in no telling brownie what a good job brownie was doing while people were dying and starving and living in squalor in the super dome and convention center
[18:21] (Eeyore_AF) I need to shed my ghost somehow
[18:21] (TheTailor) JupaSaur, naa, we just don't make up stories as well as you do, you know, wanting to stay withing the truth and all.
[18:21] (t0tgiglz) it will die
[18:21] (yowz|) japasaur, you just hate to admit to the failings of the new orleans mayor, it's governor, and it's US house and senate electees
[18:21] (Aufk|aren) Nero didn't "fiddle" when Rome burned. That's just a myth.
[18:21] (_HellMngr) BLAME BUSH
[18:21] (DStewart) JupaSaur, no one starved... no one died in the SuperDome or Convention Center.
[18:21] (Aufk|aren) A nice myth, but a myth nonetheless.
[18:21] (abum) "And so many of the people in the arena here, you
[18:21] (abum) know, were underprivileged anyway, so this--this (she
[18:21] (abum) chuckles slightly) is working very well for them."
[18:22] (JupaSaur) yowz| how many times do i have to tell you that imo the mayor and governor were at fault to
[18:22] (Eeyore_AF) Aufk|aren have you heard the song Bush was right? If not id like to send it to you
[18:22] (DStewart) JupaSaur, but why were those places in theh condition they were in? Because the people who were responsible---and the only ones who COULD be---mishandled it.
[18:22] (_HellMngr) I was pretty sickened by katrina
[18:22] (DStewart) That is, NO and LA officials.
[18:22] (CometBaby) JapaSaur .. so you put forth an *opinion* and then you respond to criticism of it by claiming that anyone who would criticize your own bias, as a bush zealot who cannot take the truth. And obviously only YOU know the truth.
[18:22] (_HellMngr) we gave these section 8 assholes even more money
[18:22] (CometBaby) hahaha
[18:22] (_HellMngr) we wasted billions of dollars
[18:22] (_HellMngr) that just
[18:22] (_HellMngr) disappeared
[18:22] (_HellMngr) trailers still sitting in the mud
[18:22] (_HellMngr) It was a total failure
[18:22] (CometBaby) the cat is back
[18:22] (DStewart) JpaSaur, how come the states of Mississippi and Florida handled it so much better? Mississippi was harder hit.
[18:22] (CometBaby) she is out there mewing under my window
[18:22] (_HellMngr) It was fucking stupid.
[18:22] (CometBaby) biab
[18:23] (Aufk|aren) Eeeyore_AF: I'm not a Bush supporter. I happen to think Bush was right in some respects, despite his general idiocy. I'm not really into hearing defences of his general policy though.
[18:23] (DStewart) But they didn't have the problems that Democratic-controlled New Orleans and Louisiana had.
[18:23] (TheTailor) Yay! The kitty!
[18:23] (Eeyore_AF) Aufk|aren its a funny song anyway
[18:23] (Aufk|aren) Eeeyore_AF: It's a song?
[18:23] (Eeyore_AF) Aufk|aren yes.
[18:23] (Aufk|aren) Well, let's do it then.
[18:23] (Aufk|aren) Send it my way. ;)
[18:23] (Aufk|aren) I'm always in the mood for a song. :D
[18:23] (Yaakov) I like George Bush, personally, but I don't like his cabinet.
[18:24] (Yaakov) I also don't think I know what he is really like thanks to the reportage.
[18:24] (DStewart) I don't like his dining table
[18:24] (flm) yaakov are you an American ?
[18:24] (yeliab) do people who affiliate with the GOP generally like dennis miller?
[18:24] (Yaakov) flm: No one knows.
[18:24] (Aufk|aren) Personally I think Bush is an idiot. I find it almost painful to listen to him. Despite that, some of his foreign policy ideas - not ideas of his own, mind - have been fundamentally sound.
[18:24] (Eeyore_AF) Aufk|aren when I do radio itnerviews I try and get the station to play this song. so far they dont
[18:24] (flm) Yaakov you know , don't you ?
[18:24] (Yaakov) flm: The latest scientific tests have been unable to determine it.
[18:24] (yowz|) Jupasaur, i'm a contractor...and if i have the problem with a product i bought, i'm FIRST going to the people locally that sold it to me. i expect them to handle my problem. it's not my intent the first call i make is to the CEO of the company
[18:25] (JupaSaur) speaking of relocating the katrina victims, here are two interesting articles about how to handle it. why did the feds not do this? http://americanvoice.pennsylvaniavoice.com/av2005/American-Voice_V08N02.html http://americanvoice.pennsylvaniavoice.com/av2005/American-Voice_V08N03.html
[18:25] (flm) Yaakov are you human ?
[18:25] (yowz|) call
[18:25] (Yaakov) flm: Define "human".
[18:25] (flm) Yaakov Never mind.
[18:26] (Yaakov) flm: OK, thanks.
[18:26] (ishimi) good pm
[18:26] (_HellMngr) KATRINA WAS ORGANIZED BY BUSH TO IMPORT VIOLENT GANGS TO HOUSTON TO DO BATTLE WITH GANGS OPPOSED TO BUSH'S HEGEMONY
[18:26] (DStewart) JupaSaur, should homesteading be allowed only for Katrina dislocatees, or anyone at all?
[18:26] (Eeyore_AF) haha
[18:26] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: Actually, I can go with that song.
[18:26] * TheTailor bops _HellMngr with a nerf sledgehammer
[18:26] (JupaSaur) DStewart good idea. why not do it for everyone in need?
[18:26] (Eeyore_AF) Aufk|aren I thought you would :*)
[18:26] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: The actual issues it discusses I'm in full agreement with.
[18:26] (Eeyore_AF) :*)
[18:27] (DStewart) JupaSaur, in need of what?
[18:27] * Eeyore_AF is now known as Eeyore
[18:27] (DStewart) How about anyone? Anyone at all?
[18:27] (flm) HellMngr one thing is for sure the rats ran out from the flood.
[18:27] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: Can I be British?
[18:27] (_HellMngr) most of the decent people took the advice and left
[18:27] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren now.. see if you can get it on college radio
[18:27] (JupaSaur) DStewart that is not the issue. the issue is trying to help the katrina survivors
[18:27] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, you don't know what input Bush has had in any of his policies do you? I mean, you haven't been at any meetings have you?
[18:27] (DStewart) It is?
[18:27] (ishimi) and go where ?
[18:27] (Aufk|aren) I think on all those issues Bush was right (perhaps, except, the economic ones). Generally though I think he's an imbecile. Despite that, I think he has some very able people around him and that's all that matters.
[18:27] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren presactly.
[18:28] (ishimi) what able people ???
[18:28] (CometBaby) it amazes me too .. they were told to leave .. didn't .. and now it's Bush's fault.
[18:28] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, how do you come to that conclusion without knowing the man?
[18:28] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: Can I be British?
[18:28] (Aufk|aren) ishimi: Condi, Wolfowitz, Perle, etc.
[18:28] (ishimi) and go where with what ?
[18:28] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: Sure. You're a guy, right? You can enter a civil partnership with me and get citizenship.
[18:28] (Eeyore) FRANCE.... WRONG!
[18:28] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: you're the catcher, though, if anyone asks.
[18:28] (TheTailor) CometBaby, feed the kitty!
[18:29] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: I am already married.
[18:29] (Aufk|aren) Not in Britain! ;)
[18:29] (DStewart) ishimi, you know, for starters, go away from where the hurricane would hit with whatever they could take, from the clothes on their back to whatever they could manage to haul away.
[18:29] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: I will move to London and pick up a Tony Blair accent.
[18:29] (flm) Jupasaur,, It has been almost Two years, Don't you believe that the people that are servivors have gone on and are making a livivng?? And the ones that haven't by now. Will probably never be a porductive member of society and probable never were ?
[18:29] (TheTailor) ishimi, woulld you have stayed there to ride out the storm?
[18:29] (Aufk|aren) TT: Sorry for the delay, I missed your question...
[18:29] (DStewart) ishimi, it's not the federal government's job to have places ready and good transport ready just in case of natural disaster.
[18:30] (CometBaby) well I found out who it belongs to .. the next door neighbor .. they just got it
[18:30] (_HellMngr) flm: The people I know from NOLA all moved back and got jobs again.
[18:30] (Aufk|aren) TT: I think he's an idiot based on a) what I know about him, and b) what I can see of him in speeches.
[18:30] (t0tgiglz) a shit load came to az and are doing fine
[18:30] (_HellMngr) flm: but they were not dirtbags either.
[18:30] (yowz|) either move NO up 20' above sea level, or let it flood
[18:30] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, frankly I find it low brow to draw conclusions about Bush when you don't know him, and you don't know what he's doing in developing policy.
[18:30] (observer) you know what's funny? how come bush was never blamed for hurricane rita?
[18:30] (t0tgiglz) they were given houses and jobs and are living and i agree if they arent by now they prob werent before
[18:30] (flm) HellMngr the ones that heven't got a job by now Don't want one !!
[18:30] (t0tgiglz) exactly flm
[18:30] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, did you see his speech when he was there visiting the queen?
[18:31] (_HellMngr) yeah
[18:31] (Aufk|aren) TT: He can't string a sentence together, he has great difficulty communicating ideas. He slouches around all over the platform, he looks obnoxious and aggressive, and he doesn't seem to have that great a grasp of the issues. When it comes to spontaneous questions, he looks completely out of his depth.
[18:31] (_HellMngr) money was flowing like water after the flood
[18:31] (Aufk|aren) TT: But that doesn't detract from the fact he has had some basically sound policies.
[18:31] (flm) HellMngr,, And the ones still blaming Bush are the Dumb Masses !! nothing more .
[18:31] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, did you see his speech when he was there visiting the queen?
[18:31] (_HellMngr) right
[18:31] (Aufk|aren) TT: I put that down to the people who surround him though, who I think are particularly able.
[18:31] (_HellMngr) This is America
[18:31] (_HellMngr) you choose your own fate
[18:31] (_HellMngr) if you wait for the government to help you
[18:31] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren he is dislexic. but he is not an idiot. read the preface for The Case for Democracy by Sharanski where he details his meeting with Bush
[18:31] (Aufk|aren) TT: No, I can't say I did. Or, if I did, I don't recall it.
[18:31] (_HellMngr) you deserve what you get.
[18:32] (flm) HellMnger true!
[18:32] (_HellMngr) it's not even the governments responsibility to help you
[18:32] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, maybe you should.
[18:32] (_HellMngr) You're dying on the street?
[18:32] (_HellMngr) bummer
[18:32] (_HellMngr) ask a church for help
[18:32] (_HellMngr) or maybe your state
[18:32] (Aufk|aren) TT: Unless this particular speech was witness to a complete transformation I shall remain unconvinced.
[18:32] (_HellMngr) but don't ask the fed
[18:32] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, you may not like the way Bush stands, or speaks, that down't make him an idiot.
[18:32] (_HellMngr) it's not their fucking problem
[18:32] (flm) Anyone that wants to work is ! and the rest are ether completly fisical or Mentaly Disabled..
[18:32] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, well you may have a complete transformation when you see it.
[18:32] (DStewart) He seems to have a great grasp of the issues, and he seems completely in depth when it comes to spontaneous questions. He does seem incredulous, though, about the presumptions and ignorances of spontaneous questions, the great majority of which are hostile accusatory premises, not actually questions.
[18:33] (flm) And Poverty in The USA is a Mental Disorder !@
[18:33] (Aufk|aren) TT: Perhaps calling him an idiot was too harsh. In comparison to the general population he's above average. When it comes to leaders, though, he seems particularly uninformed and ineloquent.
[18:33] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, oh well, you called him more than just an idiot didn't you?
[18:33] (Yaakov) flm: Are you a socialist?
[18:33] (Aufk|aren) TT: Like I said though, that doesn't detract from the general soundness of some of his policies.
[18:33] (Aufk|aren) TT: Yup.
[18:33] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren I wish I had the newspaper clippings here about Lincoln. they said word for word the same things about him.
[18:33] (DStewart) Ineloquent on the spot. Not uninformed. That's a seriously uninformed accusation.
[18:33] (flm) Yaalov Ofcorse
[18:33] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, clearly you can't trreat him with eqaulity, right?
[18:34] (DStewart) Eeyore, they also called Lincoln a baboon.
[18:34] (Aufk|aren) TT: Heh, my opinions about him are based on my own experience of his speeches and public engagements, such as they are.
[18:34] (Yaakov) flm: Do you prefer pink or mauve?
[18:34] (Aufk|aren) TT: Not any preconceived bias.
[18:34] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, and his policies, for all you know, may be all driven bu Bush himself, right?
[18:34] (flm) oops Waakof yes ofcorse I am A Socialist ,, And I want Hillary to be our first dictator
[18:34] (Eeyore) DStewart oh they said he was an idiot and didnt have the brains to run the country and had no madate for war and on and on. I have a story about that whihc is kinda funny.
[18:34] (Aufk|aren) TT: But they're clearly not. The real intellectual body of his policies comes from elsewhere.
[18:34] (flm) OOPS I mean yaakov
[18:34] (Aufk|aren) TT: That's no condemnation on the man personally.
[18:34] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, and how would you know that?
[18:34] (DStewart) Of course, any human being can be pictured as an ape of some kind, and there are probably photos of every person in America where they could be compared to some kind of monkey.
[18:35] (Aufk|aren) TT: Because I know where his ideas come from.
[18:35] (astrodog) The British are psychic.
[18:35] (astrodog) ;)
[18:35] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, no you don't.
[18:35] (Aufk|aren) TT: Yes, I do.
[18:35] (DStewart) It's because... well, we're related to monkeys, after all
[18:35] (flm) MAUVE ?? what color is that ?
[18:35] (Eeyore) DStewart of course the fact that humans are some kind of monkey makes it qutie easy to do
[18:35] (Aufk|aren) TT: His ideas about American unilteralism, about the spreading of democracy, etc. come from Perle, Wolfowitz, etc.
[18:35] (Eeyore) now. try and make people look like say, a kind of otter...
[18:35] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, Bush was my governor for six years, he was very good, you are absolutely wrong about him.
[18:36] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, you don't know that.
[18:36] (flm) Yaakov Don't you want Hillary Clinton to be our first Dictator ?
[18:36] (Yaakov) flm: It is a sort of taupe.
[18:36] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, for all you know those men may just agree with Bush.
[18:36] (KoBushi) Aufk|aren is Bush's secret lover, and knows his secrets
[18:36] (flm) yaakov A designer I am not .
[18:36] (Aufk|aren) TT: Like I said, in many respects he has performed ably. When it comes to his personal competence though, I think he is unremarkable and probably not of the quality that America deserves.
[18:36] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: Wouldn't you say mauve is taupish?
[18:36] (Aufk|aren) Yes, it's incredibly taupish.
[18:36] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren yes his ideas about spreading democracy come from otehr people. Bush had the brains and the balls to change foreighn policy from stability to the Bush doctrine. I admire him a lot for that even if the short term is harsh
[18:36] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, but you wouldn't have any way to judge that.
[18:37] (Yaakov) flm: OK, what's your favorite letter?
[18:37] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, unless you are around the man on an every day basis, you can't judge his personal competence.
[18:37] (ivy^) aleph :)
[18:37] (Eeyore) haha you know, I once had a near total strager YELL at me at a public crowded bar merely for saying "I dont hate Bush"
[18:37] (Eeyore) thats the kinder gentler left
[18:37] (Aufk|aren) TT: I judge him on his speeches. It hasn't anything to do with his ability as a public speaker - being poor at that I could forgive. What I can't overlook his fundamental lack of intellectual grasp of the issues. When it comes down to spontaneous questions, he doesn't seem to have any ability to articulate an idea beyond the positiion of the administration.
[18:37] (flm) Yaakov And I want the gument to punish the evil rich,, by taking all their money and giving it to me,, and I want to gument to give free stuff !
[18:37] (Aufk|aren) TT: Like I said, I don't condemn him for that. He is an able president, who has had some good ideas.
[18:38] (Yaakov) HELLO IRVING
[18:38] (flm) yaakov the Letter that tells me I have won the lottery !
[18:38] (Yaakov) I was just having the most fascinating conversation with flm here.
[18:38] (CometBaby) lol
[18:38] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren the fellow who wrote his speeches for years grew up a few blocks from me. he wrote a book about Bush called 'The Right Man'. may be worth checking out
[18:38] (Aufk|aren) TT: But It hink we're fooling ourselves if we suppose that the big ideas have come from him, or that he's even particularly adept at explaining them.
[18:38] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, his speeches aren't enough to judge him on, and you are selective about the speeches you see. I just told you do look for the speech he gave when meeting with the Queen, and you have alreadey set that aside.
[18:38] (flm) Yaakov don't stop now .
[18:39] (CometBaby) Just send us a certified check for $300 and we will be happy to release your $100,000. winnings.
[18:39] (ivy^) hi MYRON
[18:39] (Yaakov) flm: But ivy^ is here and she is so much more interesting.
[18:39] (bun-bun) CB: how bout you just release 99,000 to me :)
[18:39] (Yaakov) She knows, for example, what mauve is.
[18:39] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, I've seen bush work here in Texas, and he did very good things, you can't have any way of knowing if he originates big ideas or not.
[18:39] (flm) Yaakov is she a Socialist too ?
[18:39] (Yaakov) ivy^ is above political systems.
[18:39] (bun-bun) there is one instance of a 419 scammer getting scammed back for about 50 bucks.. funny as hell
[18:40] (Aufk|aren) TT: I haven't set it aside, but I have watched dozens - if not hundreds - of speeches by Bush. Unless he underwent a radical personality transformation (and I'm happy to look at any link proving it), my general point stands. The ideas in his adminsitration, and the good things the administration has done, have not been the intellectual product of George W. Bush.
[18:40] (flm) Ivy do you want Hillary clinton to be our first Dictator too ?
[18:40] * ivy^ is a socialist to everyone on the right of her and a fascist to everyone on the left of her
[18:40] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren,and again, you berating the man without knowing him is, well, low brow.
[18:40] * ivy^ isn't fond of Hillary
[18:40] * Yaakov stands in front of ivy^.
[18:40] (flm) Ivy do you refer to yourself in the third person ?
[18:40] (CometBaby) lol
[18:40] * t0tgiglz cant stand hillary and im female
[18:40] (flm) Allways Ivy
[18:40] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, well while you are looking his speeches up, find the debate he had with Ann Richards in his first run for governor here in Texas.
[18:41] (ishimi) why do we want another dictator ?
[18:41] (yowz|) TheTailor has fantasies of a 3way with hillary and rosie
[18:41] (flm) Ishimi are you a Socialist too ?
[18:41] (t0tgiglz) bad enough we have to pay for bill
[18:41] (_HellMngr) i hate socialists
[18:41] (t0tgiglz) i am not paying for bilbo also
[18:41] (_HellMngr) i'm not poor enough to be a socialist
[18:41] (TheTailor) ./ban yowz| You weren't supposed to tell!
[18:41] (_HellMngr) they want my fucking money
[18:41] (flm) Togiglz don't worry the governmet will pay it.
[18:41] (_HellMngr) get the fuck away from my money
[18:41] (Aufk|aren) TT: I'm not that bothered if you think it's low brow. I'm judging the man on how I see him. He can't articulate ideas, he isn't able to convincingly defend a position without reference to "talking points" and he isn't capable of giving a comprehensive intellectual defence of his position. But once again, like I said, that's no condemnation on the man. He's just not particularly bright. As long as he has the right people behind him
[18:41] (Aufk|aren) ... matter.
[18:41] (tnzr) Aufk|aren: you are right on the money
[18:41] (radiomuse) how does britian get it's sailors out of iran without upsetting the arab communitty?
[18:42] (yowz|) radiomuse, they ask the US to drop a coupla nukes
[18:42] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, you are judging the man unfairly, you don't know his history.
[18:42] (_HellMngr) radiomuse: The arabs care about iran in so far as islam is involved, otherwise the two are mortal enemies.
[18:42] (flm) Toggigz It gets all its money from the Evil Rich,, so it don't matter.
[18:42] (_HellMngr) persians != arabs
[18:43] (radiomuse) yes but britain has a vast islamic community
[18:43] (flm) HellMngr, that is why we must outlaw hate speach !!
[18:43] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren I agree with you except that while I agree he is no Churchill, I do not think he is not bright merely inarticulate.
[18:43] (_HellMngr) most of whom would like to see iran perish in nuclear fire.
[18:43] (Aufk|aren) TT: I know enough. He's been average all his life, as far as I can tell. He isn't a great public speaker, and more than that he doesn't seem to have the intellectual capacity to be one. I want more in a great leader. Bush has had some basically sound policies with which I agree, but I think it's basically self-delusion to think he's a great president.
[18:43] (_HellMngr) except that they are muslims and are fighting us
[18:43] (yowz|) radiomuse, then the brits would be wise to line them up at heathrow and give them tickets out of their country
[18:43] (Eeyore) radiomuse by Britain you mean Londonistan I take it
[18:43] (flm) HellMngr I think we should outLaw hate all together.
[18:43] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, you don't know anything, you have no first hand knowledge of the inner workings of his administration.
[18:44] (_HellMngr) flm: If you don't like free speech, why don't you move to north korea?
[18:44] (flm) HellMngr,, Except foe the Muslims !
[18:44] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren,a nd Bush is anything but average.
[18:44] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: I don't think he's stupid. I just don't think he's particularly smart, whereas I think a person in his position ought tob e.
[18:44] (ishimi) is the us reverting to prejudism, racism, intolerance and discrimination
[18:44] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, of course you wouldn't know that, as you don't know his history.
[18:44] (_HellMngr) I think it's funny that you say 'reverting', ishimi
[18:44] (Aufk|aren) TT: I don't need to. I'm basing what I'm saying on hours of his speeches, and his ability in press conferences.
[18:44] (_HellMngr) It's our fucking heritage.
[18:44] (radiomuse) unfortunately we have a very weak government that is apt to do anything it is told even listens to gw sheesh
[18:44] (flm) HellMnge the Muslims can keep on hating,, It is part of their faith !
[18:44] (yowz|) ishimi, if it means i don't have to fear for my family's welfare anymore, yes
[18:44] (observer) "i would like to thank senator webb for providing security" -bush on fox news right now
[18:44] (_HellMngr) We may hate your ass, but you can still achieve greatness here.
[18:44] (Aufk|aren) TT: I don't need to be a personal acquaintance of a politician in order to be able to judge him.
[18:44] (observer) hahah
[18:44] (Eeyore) TheTailor i probably shouldnt say this but at this point in time I really think those of us who are reasonable and agree on policy shouldnt alientate each other. these are precarious times where the new left may well undo civilisaiton altogether.
[18:44] (Aufk|aren) TT: If I did, what sort of position would we all be in politically?
[18:45] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, hours of speeches huh, but not speeches where he does well.
[18:45] (Aufk|aren) TT: I've seen speeches where he has done well.
[18:45] (randym) Bush is hilarious
[18:45] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, like the two I mentioned to you, those you haven't seen, and likely won't see.
[18:45] (Aufk|aren) TT: His State of the Union before last, where he promised solidarity with democrats around the world, was particularly good.
[18:45] (_HellMngr) i thought bush did 'ok' on the latest state of the union
[18:45] (randym) did TehTailor write this speech?
[18:45] (Aufk|aren) TT: That's democrats with the small 'd'
[18:45] (flm) Randym I have heard Him called a lot of things,, but that has never been one of them .
[18:45] (Aufk|aren) TT: I thought it was rousing, convincing and correct.
[18:46] (radiomuse) but after all of that is still have respect in modicums for the us
[18:46] * _Forbin New South Park @ 10 pm....theyre going to rip on Hillary Clinton....tune in :)P
[18:46] (Aufk|aren) TT: The only problem was that I thought he clearly had little hand in writing it.
[18:46] (abum) http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/bushvideos/youtube/bushfoolme.htm
[18:46] (mongo`) is yaakov around?
[18:46] (radiomuse) they stood up for liberty
[18:46] (tnzr) cain't get fooled again
[18:46] (Eeyore) _Forbin any link? I have no TV
[18:46] (abum) lol
[18:46] (ivy^) shortly ago, yes, mongo
[18:46] (abum) yep
[18:46] (flm) The Reason Cheney is not allowed in the same place as bush at the same time,, Is because of Pilosi !
[18:46] (Yaakov) Who wants to know?
[18:46] (Aufk|aren) Actually, maybe not the SOTU before last. It may have been the one before that. Or even the one before that.
[18:46] (_HellMngr) Eeyore: you might be able to watch it with TVU
[18:46] (mongo`) hey yaakov
[18:46] (Eeyore) _HellMngr whats that?
[18:47] (_HellMngr) It's some evil chinese spyware that lets you stream live tv
[18:47] (Eeyore) haha
[18:47] (_HellMngr) it's 'p2p'
[18:47] (observer) haha bush grilling pelosi
[18:47] (flm) Yaakov where are you ?
[18:47] (_HellMngr) eeyore: it does actually let you stream live tv, and the accusations of spyware are totally unfounded.
[18:47] (Yaakov) flm: Over here.
[18:47] (randym) Helen Thomas owns
[18:47] (flm) Observer as long as he is not drilling her.
[18:47] (Eeyore) _HellMngr any link please?
[18:48] (Yaakov) I am chatting up ivy^, she's irresistable.
[18:48] (radiomuse) bye
[18:48] (flm) Yaakov where we with the Socialism ?
[18:48] * |ssss| is now known as BushAmDum
[18:48] (yowz|) radiomuse, how would it be if we moved all the moslems within your community.....to your immediate neighborhood? your other neighbors sell their homes, and you just live with them, peaceful and all
[18:48] (Aufk|aren) TT: I don't harbour any will will towards Bush. I don't think he's an evil man, or ill-intentioned. Quite the opposite, I think he has had a number of fundamentally sound policies - especially when it comes to the Middle East. As a person, though, I think he is quite dim, quite unimaginative, and without a proper grasp of the issues. But that *doesn't matter*, because he has some teriffic people around him.
[18:48] (TheTailor) [20:44] (Aufk|aren) TT: The only problem was that I thought he clearly had little hand in writing it.
[18:48] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, so this is about what you *thought*, you don't know that at all.
[18:48] (Yaakov) flm: I am a student of Aufk|aren's position on redistribution of wealth. He is a big social justice advocate.
[18:49] (tnzr) Aufk|aren: I agree
[18:49] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, it seems you do harbor ill will in the way you slander him.
[18:49] (Eeyore) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO3wBor768o Australias Islamic position and wait I have a great one on film taken at UK Mosques
[18:49] (tnzr) it doesn't sound like slander, more like an honest critique of The Man(tm)
[18:49] (flm) Yowz that would be worse thn having all the mexicans move in and puting their cars up on blocks !!
[18:49] (Aufk|aren) TT: Yes, but I don't think it's at all controversial to suggest he doesn't write his own speeches, or even have a particularly influential hand in their content.
[18:49] (Eeyore) http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=2668560761490749816&q=uk+mosque is quite revealing
[18:49] (Aufk|aren) TT: If you think what I've said tonight is slander, that's your own prerogative.
[18:49] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, you and tnzr there don't know enough about Bush to determine if he's "dim' or " unimaginative".
[18:50] (Aufk|aren) TT: I think I've given a rational, balanced perspective on what someone who doesn't agree with him politically or personally - without being an ideologue, or an extremist - might think.
[18:50] (flm) Yaakov ,, Social Justice !! And Fair Taxes ! Everybody gets a bill for the same amount , and Must pay it,, We know that will never happen !
[18:50] (tnzr) TheTailor: I think there is plenty of evidence in the public sphere that supports what he is saying
[18:51] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, well no, you haven't, youve give half assed reasons for you Bush dislike, none of which are basis to draw your conclusions.
[18:51] (Eeyore) brb
[18:51] (astrodog) TT: Interestingly... atleast as far as the rules of logic go... you'd have to prove Bush DID have a hand in writing that speech... given that proving the negative is impossible...
[18:51] (TheTailor) tnzr, oh? Do you have some?
[18:51] (flm) Yaakov Social Justice,, You don't work you don't eat,, And We know that ain't going to happen .
[18:51] (Aufk|aren) They're not half-assed. They're quite comprehensive. I've spent some time explaining them.
[18:51] (TheTailor) Shut up astro
[18:51] (tnzr) TheTailor: I agree that his speeches are perfect examples of how lame of a public speaker he is
[18:51] (Aufk|aren) But I think I'd have to sit down, in real life, side by side, with you in order to point out what I mean.
[18:51] (Aufk|aren) It's virtually impossible to prove by way of linking to transcripts of his speeches
[18:51] (tnzr) press conferences, etc
[18:52] (TheTailor) tnzr, and you could do better?
[18:52] (Aufk|aren) Yes, particularly a press conference.
[18:52] (tnzr) TheTailor: honestly? probably.
[18:52] (tnzr) in my opinion.
[18:52] (abum) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_VS7fzdAq4 (-- best Bush video clip ever
[18:52] (TheTailor) tnzr, Aufk|aren said he lied one speech
[18:52] (tnzr) :)
[18:52] (TheTailor) err, liked
[18:52] (mongo`) aufk: did they release the female marine?
[18:52] (tnzr) TheTailor: which one?
[18:52] (Aufk|aren) TT: No, that's not right. I've particularly *loved* one speech, but I've quite liked at least a dozen more.
[18:52] (tnzr) I wasn't there for that, sorry
[18:52] (tnzr) err here*
[18:53] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, then you should look for the two I mentioned earlier.
[18:53] (Aufk|aren) tnzr: That SOTU speech where he promised unity with democrats around the world, regardless of the regime in which they live
[18:53] (abum) I made my position clear about this war on terror. And by the way, the enemy made their position clear yet again when we were able to stop them. lol
[18:53] (Aufk|aren) tnzr: I think it was near-perfect. Its only downfall was its lack of oratorical flourish, for which he can be easily forgiven.
[18:53] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, you do know of course that Bush brought both parties together here in Texas right?
[18:53] (flm) I was listening to a radio Show,, a man called in and Said The Filthy rich should be Taxed and us poor people should get help " Host How much money does it take to be righ,, Man " Oh some where aroung $50,000 a year " LOL LOL LOL !!
[18:54] (Aufk|aren) The problem is that, in some respects, he hasn't quite followed through. Particularly his administration's response to democrats in Egypt and Saudi Arabia, the support for whom has been rather tepid.
[18:54] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, they acomplished loads of good for the people of Texas under Bush's leadership.
[18:54] (Aufk|aren) TT: I'm sure they did.
[18:54] (Aufk|aren) TT: I don't think Bush is an inept politician.
[18:54] (redfish) aufklaren even for the speeches though. even though theyre good in that they say the right thing politically in the right tone and terms, they arent eloquent and dont say anything profound
[18:54] (Aufk|aren) TT: I think he has a near-godlike ability to surround himself with the right staff, and delegate to them as the situation provides.
[18:54] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, it's quite rare for a governor to be reelected in Texas, Bush in his second election here was a landslide winner.
[18:55] (Aufk|aren) TT: As to his own intellectual grasp of worldwide politics though, I think he's lacking. And that's my basic point.
[18:55] (flm) ASk any Socialist how much money does it take to be righ,, and they ALL will tell you,, More than they make !
[18:55] (cubb) I think the british will end up appologizing iran for entering its waters.
[18:55] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, Bush was personally involved daily with the Democratic leader of Texas, Bob Bullock.
[18:55] (tnzr) flm: mo' money? mo' problems.
[18:55] (TheTailor) cubb, never.
[18:55] (tnzr) flm: but after a certain point you get to pay someone to deal wtih said problems
[18:55] (flm) tnzr Right LOL !
[18:55] (_HellMngr) flm: 50,000 a year?
[18:55] (_HellMngr) that's poverty level
[18:56] (_HellMngr) i did'nt know people could live on that.
[18:56] (Aufk|aren) cubb: Perhaps two or three days ago.
[18:56] (flm) HellMngr Yep !
[18:56] (redfish) aufklaren do you think his speeches are good oratory
[18:56] (Aufk|aren) cubb: Now, never. We wont.
[18:56] (Aufk|aren) redfish: No, I'm afraid not.
[18:56] (_HellMngr) I feel bad for the people making $9 an hour
[18:56] (_HellMngr) what is the new min wage?
[18:56] (_HellMngr) $9.25?
[18:56] (abum) that sounds too high
[18:56] (redfish) aufklaren whats the difference between speechmaking and oratory then
[18:56] (tnzr) debt slavery :~(
[18:56] (_HellMngr) I remember 10 years ago, when I was a young boy making $5 an hour
[18:57] (_HellMngr) 10.5 anyway
[18:57] (flm) HellMngr,, It doesn't matter,, All the minimum wage is , Is governmet forced inflation and Vote buying .
[18:57] (Aufk|aren) redfish: I should think it was self-explanatory. Giving a speech is giving a speech. Oratory is the act of convincing one's audience, and articulating the point in a rousing way.
[18:57] (cubb) the brits aren't ready for a big war with iran.....and iran doesn't seem to back down on this either
[18:57] (Aufk|aren) redfish: I'm a leftist, but I'm happy to admit that - on the balance - Bush has had some particularly good policies. He wont go down as one of the greatest presidents, but - despite what some other leftists might say - he is far from the worst.
[18:58] (tnzr) is Iran ready for a big war with the brits?
[18:58] (Swigert) hey
[18:58] (tnzr) I doubt they'll go to war over a few soldiers though.
[18:58] (redfish) aufklaren yes, but thats sort of it.. the only reason why his speeches are good is they fit what people want, but the only reason theyre important in the first place is becuase of some conventional importance given to them. what if the press chose not to to cover the state of the union speech unless it was interesting, would they cover it
[18:58] (Aufk|aren) There's no real "war" with Iran that we can win.
[18:58] (cubb) tnzr: probably not....but they don't seem to scare a war either
[18:58] (redfish) aufklaren i dont think bush is better or worse than clinton
[18:58] (Swigert) we didnt go tow ar with China when their fighter crashed into our P-3, which had to land in China
[18:59] (cubb) Swigert: right
[18:59] (tnzr) Swigert: i remember that.. wasnt the chinese pilot hot-rodding around our plane?
[18:59] (Aufk|aren) I think if Britain thought large-scale military action would help, it would go for it. But I don't see any large-scale military conflict that would not hurt us more than help us in the long-run.
[18:59] (Aufk|aren) redfish: I think Clinton was better in some respects, I think Bush was better in some respects.
[18:59] (tnzr) or was that US propaganda to make us all think it was China's fault? :)
[18:59] (cubb) that's why i predict that England will end up saying "we're very sorry for entering your waters....."
[18:59] (Swigert) tnzr: something like that - I think he was trying to get close enough to show the crew his email address
[18:59] (Aufk|aren) redfish: I wouldn't say that either was particularly better than the other.
[18:59] (Patr) I don't see Britain in any large-scale military conflict any time soon.
[18:59] (tnzr) thats awesome
[18:59] (Aufk|aren) I didn't like Clinton on a personal level.
[18:59] (Patr) They didn't commit that many troops to Iraq in the first place.
[18:59] (tnzr) Swigert: thats the kind of job I want
[18:59] (Swigert) patr: they're already in one
[18:59] (flm) HellMng The reason people and it is Mostly Union People and Democrats owned by unions, Is because Union wages are tied directly to minimum wage,, their wages are raised to match the amount of inflation minimum wage causes !
[19:00] (Swigert) tnzr: nice to see the taxpayer's money being used so well
[19:00] (Patr) Swigert, they're withdrawing 1600 troops.
[19:00] (tnzr) yeah
[19:00] (tnzr) I wonder what we lost out of that spyplane
[19:00] (tnzr) that china got to strip bare
[19:00] (Patr) A war with Iran would take a lot of troops.
[19:00] (flm) tnzr maybe a spy ??
[19:00] (tnzr) flm: i was thinking more along the lines of hardware. :)
[19:00] (Patr) It would be cool if they could use the Gurkhas.
[19:01] (flm) ynzr Oh yea that too,
[19:01] (Swigert) patr: and sending 600 more to Afghanistan
[19:01] (BillFrugg) tnzr, much of what they got was destroyed before the plane hit the ground
[19:01] (TheTailor) Bush showed the same rhetorical savvy against Texas Gov. Ann Richards in their 1994 gubernatorial debate. Richards, a talented orator, asked Texans to pray for hurricane victims in Houston during one of her answers. Bush knew Richards had just embraced part of the audiences' moral framework and so he embraced both her and the audience in three short words: "Well spoken, Governor."Writer James Fallows pointed out that this comment was both "gracious an
[19:01] (Aufk|aren) Patr: The Ghurkas are more of an auxiliary regimetn now (pity). The SAS are far better.
[19:01] (tnzr) BillFrugg: sweet.. so the crew went into "self-destruct" mode eh?
[19:01] (flm) ynzr maybe one of those $500,00 hammers !
[19:01] (BillFrugg) tnzr, sop
[19:01] (Aufk|aren) I don't think it's particularly nationalistic to say that the SAS are one of, if not the, best special forces organisation in the world.
[19:01] (Swigert) auf: I'd rather not have both SAS and Gurkhas after me
[19:02] (Patr) We need a foreign legion.
[19:02] (tnzr) what do they do, chuk a thermite 'nade into the console of their radar rig or something?
[19:02] (Swigert) auf: if they;'re the best, they're the best of an extremely good bunch
[19:02] (ivy^) we have one - it's called the National Guard :)
[19:02] (BillFrugg) acid
[19:02] (tnzr) or start ripping out wires & motherboards and heaving them out the hatch
[19:02] (Patr) I mean one made up of non-natives.
[19:02] (tnzr) ahhh.. good old acid
[19:02] (Aufk|aren) Swigert: True. The American and Israeli special forces are absolutely superb.
[19:02] (Swigert) patr: that is the US military these days :)
[19:02] (flm) Patr why don't we just get a King,, Or in Hillarys case a Queen ! and edwards too .
[19:02] (flm) edwards A Drag queen !
[19:03] (Patr) I don't know how having that would help us militarily.
[19:03] (Patr) =\
[19:03] (Swigert) patr: how about fewer wars
[19:03] (tnzr) its hard to imagine that we need help militarily
[19:03] (tnzr) given the amount of money we spend relative to everyone else
[19:03] (flm) Swigert How about doing what it takes to win one !
[19:03] (Aufk|aren) The Americans don't need any help. Even in Iraq, the British contribution was virtually token.
[19:03] (Swigert) flm: we say we win - simple as that
[19:04] (Swigert) Afghanistan has gone rather well
[19:04] (tnzr) http://www.theonion.com/content/news/heroic_secret_service_agent_takes (-- TheTailor / Aufk|aren
[19:04] (cubb) British troops only guard the "peaceful" areas of iraq
[19:04] (Patr) Not really, Swigert.
[19:04] (flm) Awigert No,, We distroy the Terrorist and anyone that Supports and harbers them,, that is how we win !
[19:04] (Patr) There were tons of stories of the Taliban resurgence.
[19:05] (Swigert) patr: there are also stories about US and NATO forces routing the Taliban at every turn
[19:05] (Patr) Also we don't have that border with Pakistan and they usually just sneak back in there.
[19:05] (Patr) I mean we don't have it secured.
[19:05] (Swigert) more British died in the Falklands than have in Iraq
[19:05] (Swigert) patr: will we ever? could we ever?
[19:05] (tnzr) Swigert: we could with the cooperation of the pakis
[19:05] (Aufk|aren) Swigert: Not sure about that. 255 died in the Falklands. I think the current Iraq count is about 350.
[19:06] (Patr) How would the insurgency end in that case?
[19:06] (Eeyore) Swigert damn those french excocet technicians
[19:06] (Swigert) auf: a little over 100
[19:06] (Swigert) tnzr: hey lets note xpect miracles here
[19:06] (Patr) Yeah, Musharraf is in trouble now.
[19:06] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: The MI6 role in the Falklands is very ill-publicised. They either bought up all the Exocets on the market - legal and black - or destroyed the rest.
[19:06] (tnzr) Swigert: yeah
[19:07] (Swigert) patr: insurgencies seldom end in a big ceremony - rather they linger for years. they're defeated by building up the main government
[19:07] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren ok whats your point though)
[19:07] (Eeyore) ?
[19:07] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: I've even heard rumours that we threatened to use nuclear weapons on Argentina unless the French gave us Exocet codes. That's probably an urban legend though.
[19:07] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: None whatsoever. Just general interest. :)
[19:07] (td) Swigert: thats a lie, they are defeated by troop surges
[19:08] (Swigert) td: I was thinking back to the Malayan Emergency in the 50s - communist insurgency basically ended by sustained effort over decades
[19:09] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren oh ok :*) well all I know is, the French supplied techs for Argentinian weapons and Argentina had to reason to declare war on the UK. I just dont get those fucking French. really.
[19:09] (Eeyore) oh!
[19:09] (Swigert) eeyore: few do - except maybe the Germans :)
[19:10] (TheTailor) tnzr, the onion is a spoof.
[19:10] (Eeyore) speaking of rumours, I have one as well. shortly after 9-11 Bush called the royal family fo Saudi Arabia and said.. one more major attack like that on US soil or embasies and we nuke mecca. its apparently why there has been no further major atempts on the US by AL QUeda.
[19:10] (KoBushi) yes, the Germans got them.. twice!
[19:10] (KoBushi) :P
[19:10] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: The overriding French concern over the last fifty years has been to fuck over the British, and that's no hyperbole. Even their current hatred for America can be ascribed to disdain for the "Anglo-Saxons."
[19:10] (Swigert) 3 times - 1870, 1914, 1940
[19:10] (Swigert) auf: they call it That Joan of Arc Thing
[19:10] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: The French are more concerned with the bottom line than doing the right thing.
[19:10] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren strange a nation being taken over area by area from Islamic's would think that way
[19:11] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren Im not even sure its that reasonable
[19:11] (ishimi) aufk... how do you know so much about the french ??
[19:11] (nasc) http://tgp.maxfister-dungeon.com/tgp/image/bizarre/mfd-013.jpg
[19:11] (ishimi) and why such hatred ?
[19:11] (nasc) ^ new iranian hostage situation photos
[19:12] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: I don't think the French are on the verge of capitulation to Muslims. They make up about 7-9% of the population at last count, I believe, but I don't think that number is destined to increase in any significant way. The problem is the appeasement of that minority at the expense of Western values.
[19:12] (observer) nasc, thats fucking sick
[19:12] (Aufk|aren) Which is why I was particularly pleased to see the French reaction over the Charlie Hebdo "controversy."
[19:12] (nasc) whoahhhhhh
[19:12] (Swigert) The Univ of Winnipeg has released a report that demands unisex bathrooms
[19:12] (nasc) you need to chill out man
[19:12] (Patr) Aufklaren, if the native French birthrate continues to decline while the Muslim birthrate stays up, there will be a substantial increase.
[19:13] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren well I hal;f agree. but you may not be up to speed on the extent to which Muslims are taking over sections of france.
[19:13] (Eeyore) oh and Aufk|aren check your PM
[19:13] (hoffman) CRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!
[19:13] (nasc) http://tgp.maxfister-dungeon.com/tgp/image/bizarre/mfd-013.jpg
[19:13] (ishimi) they do proliferate (muslims and north african, which are not all muslims btw)
[19:13] (flm) good night every body,, and God bless !
[19:13] (observer) ^not safe for work
[19:13] (Aufk|aren) Patr: Right, but I think our past knowledge of demographics seem to indicate that the French reproduction rate will stabilise, while the Muslim immigration rate/birth rate will decrease as they become more integrated.
[19:13] (Aufk|aren) At least, I hope that's the case.
[19:14] (hoffman) nasc lolololol
[19:14] (TheTailor) hoffman .. tell us all about it
[19:14] (starly) hoffman, you are devoiced (Requested by TheTailor )
[19:14] (Aufk|aren) Either way, I think the problem in Europe is less than a change to "Eurabia" than a full-on capitulation to the support of Islamist fascist mindets because they're "ethnic."
[19:14] (astrodog) Aufk: I figured out how to explain the Bush thing.
[19:14] (Aufk|aren) astrodog: shoot. :)
[19:15] (astrodog) If he was a brit... he'd say Bu'er, not Butter.
[19:15] (Aufk|aren) lol
[19:15] (Aufk|aren) If he was a Brit, he'd be a chav.
[19:15] (Aufk|aren) No doubts. ;)
[19:15] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren you live in the UK right? are you familair with that Giant MOsque that is slated to open at the same time as the olympics? the one that will hold 70,000 people?
[19:15] (astrodog) That's...
[19:15] (Swigert) gee, where do these Muslims get all that money?
[19:15] (astrodog) Novelty Sized.
[19:16] (ivy^) Europe wants to wait and see if the problem "just goes away" and it may; the US wants to take decisive action to make it go away and that might be necessary.
[19:16] (Eeyore) Swigert 2 places. SAudi Arabia and Euro social services
[19:16] (Swigert) eeyore: true
[19:16] (Eeyore) ivy^ its way past neccesary
[19:16] (Swigert) this is why it is better to be American
[19:16] (Eeyore) ivy^ its actually too late.
[19:16] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: Yep. I have ambiguous feelings. On the one hand, I'm not too cool about places like that opening. On the other, I tend to think a massive mosque like that will mainstream a lot of the congregations, and at least give us a main focal point of surveillance (which, I have no doubt, is already happening right across the UK).
[19:16] (ishimi) the us is buddy w/saudi arabia
[19:16] (Swigert) so is UK
[19:17] (ishimi) becoz of their oil fields
[19:17] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren it is bu the mayor of London and of ocurse herr Galloway are actually on theside of the extrmemists. its like Chamberlains revenge over there
[19:17] (Aufk|aren) Galloway and Livingstone are complete fucks.
[19:17] (ishimi) but the us is more dependent on oil than any other country in the world
[19:17] (Aufk|aren) Thankfully Galloway is powerless.
[19:17] (astrodog) Wait.
[19:17] (astrodog) Herr Galloway?
[19:17] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren we agree there. but they have influence and indicate soemthing
[19:17] (_3Josephs) ishimi, umm ... Japan
[19:17] (Aufk|aren) Livingstone, on the other hand, is not.
[19:18] (Swigert) astrodog: Mohammed Al-Galloway Bin laden
[19:18] (astrodog) He's many things... but not a nazi...
[19:18] (Eeyore) astrodog I fucking Hate galloway. I couldnt think of a prefix for him
[19:18] (astrodog) You, err, hate him?
[19:18] (ishimi) let's say that the us consumes the most oil
[19:18] (Eeyore) astrodog um... i cant find a distinction between radical Islam and nazi's. Can you?
[19:18] (astrodog) Eey: A large number of them, actually.
[19:18] (starly) Purpdank, you are devoiced (Requested by TheTailor - Reason: No racists )
[19:18] (Aufk|aren) Livingstone spends an enormous amount of time inviting representatives of Islamist organisations to London. He's so obsessed with appearing progressive and radical that he is happy to excuse the most regressive and reactionary Islamic groups because they're "ethnic."
[19:19] (KoBushi) Eeyore yes, radical islam lacks nationalism
[19:19] (Eeyore) ishimi the US makes most of the worlds stuff. soon, China will use the most oil. same reason. so what.
[19:19] (Eeyore) KoBushi thats about it
[19:19] (astrodog) Actually...
[19:19] (Aufk|aren) Galloway is a total cunt. No two ways about it.
[19:19] (astrodog) The US hasn't made most of the world's stuff, for a long time.
[19:19] (KoBushi) Eeyore and is opposed to commerce ad industry... not for state control of it
[19:19] (astrodog) Aufk: Sure, but he's not a Nazi, either.
[19:19] (astrodog) :P
[19:19] (ishimi) and when is the price of gas going to stop climbing ??
[19:20] (Eeyore) KoBushi ok
[19:20] (KoBushi) also, radical islam doesn't have anything to do with eugenics or diseugenics
[19:20] * Eeyore shrugs. these are the least important distinctions
[19:20] (astrodog) Uh.
[19:20] (KoBushi) ...
[19:20] (Aufk|aren) astrodog: He's not a Nazi himself. On the face of it, he makes an extraordinarily convincing anti-Nazi. The problem with Galloway is that he has dedicated his entire political career over the past few years to defending Islamic movements and individuals that are Nazi in all but name, and all because they're ethnic.
[19:20] (Eeyore) KoBushi they want a final solution
[19:20] (astrodog) They are what *defined* the Nazis.
[19:20] (KoBushi) lol indeed astrodog
[19:21] (astrodog) Aufk: I never said he wasn't a twit. He's just not a Nazi.
[19:21] (KoBushi) "they are JUST like the nazis! ... I mean... other than not having any simularities"
[19:21] (Aufk|aren) He's symptomatic of the wider problem with my dear, beloved left. They've abdicated worldwide progress and human rights and socialism for support of clerical fascist and terrorist movements, becaue they're "authentically anti-imperialist" and anti-Western.
[19:21] (Eeyore) i disagree. The new Islamic movement want a global caliphate and they want to kill all the jews. I think thats the 2 most important aspects of it really.
[19:21] (astrodog) The similarity ends at, "Have killed lotsa people."
[19:21] (astrodog) Eeyore: No..
[19:21] (astrodog) They want to kill everyone who's not Muslim.
[19:22] (astrodog) Race doesn't enter into it.
[19:22] (Eeyore) ok fine so aryan muslim whatever. they are not shall we say, 'multi lateral'
[19:22] (Aufk|aren) astrodog: You're right about that, but they do also want to kill all the Jews.
[19:22] (Aufk|aren) astrodog: Islamist hatred for the Jews is absolute and undeniable.
[19:22] (Eeyore) exactly.
[19:22] (astrodog) Aufk: When you want to kill everyone... that's a pretty silly point.
[19:22] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren have you seen Obsession? i would be happy to DCC it to you but it would take some time
[19:22] (astrodog) They want to kill all of the Polish people, too.
[19:22] (astrodog) :P
[19:22] (Aufk|aren) astrodog: Tell that to the Islamists. ;)
[19:23] (KoBushi) they want to kill everyone who's not a muslim... but they... want to kill the jews twice?
[19:23] (astrodog) KoB: Heh.
[19:23] (Aufk|aren) astrodog: Even mainstream Islamist groups approve of the wholesale killing of Jews wherever they are.
[19:23] (Aufk|aren) astrodog: Some Islamist groups - like Al-Qaeda - take it even further, including all Westerners.
[19:23] (Eeyore) KoBushi in france Muslims are killing jewish people on the street claiming "I have killed my jew, i can be with allah now"
[19:23] (Aufk|aren) astrodog: But that doesn't change the basic fact that Islamism is inherently anti-semitic.
[19:23] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren of course it says that in Hadith
[19:23] (Swigert) is there a group that extremist Muslims won't kill?
[19:23] (astrodog) Aufk: They support the conversion of *everyone*... and the death of everyone who resists.
[19:24] (Eeyore) and Aufk|aren please check your PM from me I have some stuff for ya if you want it
[19:24] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: Right, and that hadith is quoted in the Hamas charter.
[19:24] (astrodog) Its not specific to jews. Jews happen to the the most vocal targets, because of Israel.
[19:24] (observer) europe is crazy
[19:24] (Aufk|aren) astrodog: you're right, but their hatred for the Jews is specific.
[19:24] (Aufk|aren) Just look at any bin Laden video.
[19:24] (ivy^) night all...
[19:24] (Eeyore) astrodog nope. if Isreal where to vanish today it would make no difrence. Hitler told the grand mufti of Jeruslame his plans for a final solution before his own generals.
[19:24] (ishimi) europe isn't anymore crazy than the states presently :)
[19:24] (Aufk|aren) It's all about the "Jews and Zionist crusaders."
[19:25] (Eeyore) Israel is a mere excuse.
[19:25] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: Exactly.
[19:25] (Aufk|aren) People think that if Israel was wiped from the earth that the whole problem with Islamism would end.
[19:25] (astrodog) No.
[19:25] (Eeyore) Muslims where supporting Hitler and his final solution well before there was an Israel
[19:25] (Aufk|aren) The Israel-Palestine problem is symptomatic, not causal.
[19:25] (astrodog) No one claimed that, Aufk.
[19:25] (Aufk|aren) astrodog: Actually, many have claimed that.
[19:25] (Aufk|aren) astrodog: Not you, of course.
[19:26] (astrodog) Even if every jewish person on the planet died... the problem would still exist.
[19:26] (astrodog) That's kinda my whole point.
[19:26] (astrodog) :P
[19:26] (Aufk|aren) Exactly. ;)
[19:26] (Eeyore) "if the palistinians laid down there arms there would be peace. if the Isrealis laid down there arms there would be no isreal." its that simple
[19:26] (Aufk|aren) That doesn't change that Islamist hatred for Jews is far above and beyond the hatred of Westerners and their affiliates in general.
[19:26] (Aufk|aren) brb
[19:26] (astrodog) Aufk: I think that's a function of proximity.
[19:27] (astrodog) I mean... if...
[19:27] (astrodog) Wait. It just occurred to me...
[19:27] (astrodog) Mufti is a... ridiculous title.
[19:28] (astrodog) If someone told me he was a mufti... I'd wonder if he was into animals or somesuch.
[19:28] (Harsen) This is the power structure in Iran
[19:28] (Harsen) Ali Khamenei -) Mullahs -) Revolutionary Guard -) Ahmadinejad -) Army -) Civil Servants -) People
[19:28] (astrodog) Hars: Left one out.
[19:28] (astrodog) -) Women
[19:28] (Harsen) nah
[19:28] (Eeyore) are women people in Iran?
[19:28] (Harsen) Ali Khamenei -) Mullahs -) Revolutionary Guard -) Ahmadinejad -) Army -) Civil Servants -) People -) Horse -) Dog -) Insect -) Women
[19:28] (astrodog) I'm not sure what their status is there.
[19:29] (astrodog) Somewhat worse than SA, probably better than under the Taliban.
[19:29] (observer) but they respect women, look how nice they treated that british woman they kidnapped ... oops i mean detained
[19:29] (Aufk|aren) astrodog: It has nothing to do with proximity. Islamist hatred for Jews is far more serious than that.
[19:29] (Eeyore) i have a video made by Iranian disedents about a tenage girl who was hanged in Iran for bieng raped I think it was
[19:29] (astrodog) Aufk: Its a pretty old feud though.
[19:29] (KoBushi) I just got a text message wrong number
[19:29] (astrodog) Started by proximity.
[19:29] (astrodog) KoB: Did someone SMS you asking for a "Booty Call"?
[19:30] (Eeyore) observer yes they gave her a new uniform to wear
[19:30] (KoBushi) astrodog perhaps, it's from someone I dunno, and says helloooooooo!!
[19:30] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: In Iran, as in a few other Muslim places (including Pakistan), any rape that isn't witnessed by four men is therefore "fornication".
[19:30] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: How was that young girl hanged?
[19:30] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: From a crane? Slowly?
[19:30] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: that's the usual method, I believe.
[19:31] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren i couldnt watch it all. I think so. some things I need to purge from memory to have a normal life as Im not a leader here. its enough that I know who and what the enemy is.
[19:31] (Forbin`) ok ok....who just saw south park
[19:31] (Forbin`) holy s**t
[19:31] (Eeyore) Forbin` I wish I did. im a new fan
[19:31] (Forbin`) They will replay it in 90 minutes
[19:31] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: I sat through an Iranian stoning a few weeks back.
[19:32] (Forbin`) they tore hillary apart....wow
[19:32] (Forbin`) rofl
[19:32] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: My IR group watched it for research.
[19:32] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: I nearly threw up on several occasions.
[19:32] (Aufk|aren) It took forever.
[19:32] (KoBushi) your Infra Red group?
[19:33] * n00b547 is now known as RichWidow
[19:33] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren yes I have a vid here of an Afgani stoning. when I sent the link to my email list, about 40% of the peoeple on it asked to be removed.
[19:34] (Aufk|aren) KoBushi: International relations ;). It's part of my degree.
[19:34] (abum) gotta any video from inside guantanamo
[19:34] (KoBushi) Eeyore got any videos of the rape it's self? er uh... nm
[19:35] (KoBushi) Aufk|aren I see
[19:35] (Eeyore) abum well I do know that the conditons there piss me off. for example, the guards wear latex gloves when handling Korans for teh inmates so as not to defile them. this sickens me. they should take giant dumps on them
[19:36] (hoffman) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLQRv0RjBBM
[19:37] (CryHavoc) man o man...got that lot sorted...
[19:37] (CryHavoc) now I will have 6 types of Jade rings..
[19:37] (CryHavoc) and I have 100 Jade Bangles
[19:38] (BillFrugg) just awful in Gitmo. They broke 3 toilets trying to flush those korans down them
[19:38] (CometBaby) has anyone in here tried those Bertolli frozen dinners. I saw them in the store and they are $8.50 each. Good gawd !!!
[19:38] (CometBaby) and you have to dirty a pan to eat them.
[19:38] (CometBaby) no thanks !
[19:38] (BillFrugg) 8.50?! It's cheaper to go to the restaurant
[19:38] (CryHavoc) errr....what??
[19:38] (CryHavoc) damn.....
[19:39] (CometBaby) they are just plain nuts !
[19:39] (CryHavoc) heh a far cry from Swanson TV dinners
[19:39] (KoBushi) CometBaby ... does it feed 4 people? :P
[19:39] (CryHavoc) who remembers those??
[19:39] * puella raises her hand...
[19:39] (CryHavoc) Swansons Hotdogs And Beans....
[19:39] (KoBushi) CryHavoc they still exist
[19:39] * BillFrugg raises his hand
[19:39] (CryHavoc) Crunchy and mushy bbs with pencil erasers
[19:39] (KoBushi) HungryMan is a Swanson brand
[19:40] (CryHavoc) KoBushi..they still exist...but now they are edible
[19:40] (CometBaby) KoB I doubt it .. they looked like pretty small bags to me. 24 oz.
[19:40] (CryHavoc) Hungrydeath...
[19:40] (BillFrugg) 30 minutes to cook, and 10 minutes to eat... still hungry...
[19:40] (CryHavoc) enough Sodium to put you 6 feet under
[19:40] (KoBushi) CometBaby that's really $ then
[19:40] (CryHavoc) Bill..that be not efficient
[19:40] (CryHavoc) Hungrydeath at least gives you a pound of food
[19:41] (puella) really really green firm peas...kinda wrinkly
[19:41] (CometBaby) KoB . they are outrageous
[19:41] (CometBaby) they are spending a bundle on tv advertising .. now you know why. lol
[19:41] * BillFrugg listens to ZZ Top, 'TV Dinners'
[19:41] (yeliab) is global warming a significant issue that if we don't address asap, then will destroy us in the near (30+ yrs) future?
[19:41] (CryHavoc) $8.50 for something that will not shut up my stomach...fuck that
[19:42] (CryHavoc) yeliab..no it is not..
[19:42] (CryHavoc) its the Dems wanting a platform...and a way to raise taxes..
[19:42] (CryHavoc) and its the EU seeking to ruin our economy
[19:42] (BillFrugg) how many carbon offsets is algore going to buy/sell to make up for his proposed concerts?
[19:42] (yeliab) yea i understand...but is it a risk worth taking?
[19:42] (Eeyore) yeliab GLOBAL WARMING! please man dont give me that Im still trying to re build my hosue to prepare for KILLER BEES!
[19:42] (Josh12) I understand Saudia Arabia is turn away from Bush
[19:42] (CometBaby) coke has a new *energy* drink .. combines coke with a coffee flavor.
[19:43] (CometBaby) worst of both worlds :)
[19:43] (BillFrugg) global warming is a scam
[19:43] (cyberfr0g) i love salt
[19:43] (yeliab) if the majority of scientists (Ph.D.'s) agree that global warming is real; isn't it worth addressing?
[19:43] (KoBushi) CometBaby I fed 4 people the other day for $7, and still had leftover for a big lunch for me the next day
[19:43] * BillFrugg is still preparing for the ice age
[19:43] (CryHavoc) Nope...because the majority do not..
[19:43] (CometBaby) KoB .. entirely possible :)
[19:43] (cyberfr0g) i like global warming
[19:43] (yeliab) CryHavoc: cite it
[19:44] (cyberfr0g) i hate cold weather
[19:44] (CometBaby) particularly with something italian (like bertolli makes)
[19:44] (CryHavoc) "majority" - usually a way to spin info in yer direction
[19:44] (KoBushi) CometBaby stirfry
[19:44] (KoBushi) rice is cheap! :P
[19:44] (CryHavoc) yeliab...sure...
[19:44] (Josh12) People are concerned with Iraq, not global warming -- get real
[19:44] (cyberfr0g) CometBaby: i made bertolli's chicken parmesan and penne .. omg it was soo goooood
[19:44] (Eeyore) yeliab 1. they do not and 2. concensus doesnt mean shit. in the year 1850 90% of british doctors felt the best way to treat schizophrenia was with a blood letting and an enima
[19:44] (CryHavoc) that Mastodon froze in the ice LONG before we had any impact..
[19:44] (astrodog) Its pretty rasty.
[19:44] (CometBaby) cyber for $8.50 ?
[19:44] (astrodog) *tasty
[19:44] (CometBaby) yikes
[19:44] (CryHavoc) Warming and coolin cycles are natural..
[19:44] (cyberfr0g) CometBaby: lol no, it was cheap
[19:45] (yeliab) Eeyore: so you honestly discredit the opinions of scientists?
[19:45] (astrodog) Usually I see the Bertolli's stuff for ~4-5.
[19:45] (CometBaby) cyber well that is what it costs
[19:45] (CryHavoc) cyberfr0g.....for 8.50 you should have a full belly
[19:45] (tnzr) Eeyore: that doesn't mean that the scientific consensus isn't the best thing to go on
[19:45] (yeliab) i'm sure you went to college and had professors; do you discredit the majority of them?
[19:45] (cyberfr0g) ... it was more like $6 at my local kroger
[19:45] (BillFrugg) the day the scientists can explain how my SUV is affecting the environment of Mars, I will start to listen
[19:45] (cyberfr0g) and it fed me 3 days
[19:45] (CometBaby) astro .. no you don't. They have $2.00 coupons from the $8.50
[19:45] (CryHavoc) CB...is it possible it costs that much where you are because of that selfsame reason?
[19:45] (Eeyore) yeliab no. actual climate scientists are saying that man caused global warming is nonsence. its UN Beaurocrats andthe global warming industry whihc make these claims. many of teh exact same people who claimed nuclear winter was gonna kill us all for the same causes in the 1970s
[19:45] (CryHavoc) Kroger??
[19:46] (cyberfr0g) i think it was on sale
[19:46] (cyberfr0g) which is why i bought it
[19:46] (CometBaby) cry out where I live .. women cook.
[19:46] (CryHavoc) wow..havent seen one of those since 1984
[19:46] (astrodog) CB: Yes I do... I've seen em for that cheap at Target, and Albertsons here.
[19:46] (CryHavoc) CB...I cook too...
[19:46] (BillFrugg) yeliab, you have to understand: the 'scientists' you talk about aren't scientists
[19:46] (tnzr) Eeyore: who makes the counter claims?
[19:46] (cyberfr0g) CryHavoc: i live in ohio a few mins north of where kroger was founded hehe they are everywhere out here
[19:46] (KoBushi) c'mon people... you're all on IRC a lot... you don't need ready made meals you have plenty of time to cook :O
[19:46] (CryHavoc) but the more out of way or sparlsey populated areas...they may up the price
[19:46] (Eeyore) yeliab let me be more clear then. one of the first rules of logic is... "You do not accept something as true based on the credentuals of the speaker" and as science is a work in porgress, it isnt done as the gw people claim it is
[19:46] (CryHavoc) Cyber..I grew up in Blohio
[19:47] (cyberfr0g) CryHavoc: i'm sorry
[19:47] (Eeyore) tnzr have yu seen the movie, The Great Global warming Swindle? its full of highluy crdable scientsts
[19:47] (CryHavoc) Rule two...Al Gore is NOT an expert...
[19:47] (CryHavoc) he is a tree-fucking looneytune
[19:47] (ishimi) where in ohio cyber ?
[19:47] (CryHavoc) cyber..no worries..I escaped LOL
[19:48] (cyberfr0g) KoBushi: i can't make gnocchi for less then $6 and i'd screw it up
[19:48] (Eeyore) i thought suth park nailed all gore pretty well
[19:48] (Eeyore) oh! tnzr I have a great 150 page document I would like to send you refuting every point in Al Gores movie made by actual cimate sceitsts. would you like it?
[19:49] (redfish) now iichael Jackson himself, may attempt to erect a 50-foot, robotic likeness of himself in the Las Vegas desert in full view of incoming planes. According to entertainment company consultant Mike Luckman, his business partner Andre Van Pier has already designed what we'll refer to as the massive Jackobot, complete with -- and we'll stifle the urge to break out that tired old cliché -- laser beams shooting up into the sky.
[19:49] (redfish) The plan will only go into motion if Jackson decides to launch a show in Sin City, for which Van Pier has also contributed sketches of a "stage set of a giant audience-interactive video game with human cyborgs controlled by the audience," whatever the hell that means.
[19:49] (Eeyore) tnzr)?
[19:49] (_3Josephs) redfish, will the nose automatically change shape too?
[19:49] (astrodog) It means.... run the fuck away.
[19:49] (astrodog) Now.
[19:49] (yeliab) but the disaster that would ensue if we are wrong about global warming far exceeda the cost of preventing the possibility
[19:49] (KoBushi) redfish yeah... apparently molesting children just isn't creepy enough
[19:49] (tnzr) Eeyore: i think i know the one you are referring to
[19:49] (Eeyore) yeliab wierdly no
[19:49] (KoBushi) (that was jay leno's joke)
[19:50] (CryHavoc) yeliab...win/win
[19:50] (Eeyore) tnzr do you? if you did, you woudlnt have asked the question who is refuting it
[19:50] (CryHavoc) a little darwinism would be good for the world
[19:50] (astrodog) Cry: A little?
[19:50] (yeliab) how is any part of that statement falacious?
[19:50] (observer) redfish: thats scary 0_o
[19:50] (yeliab) it is a fact
[19:50] (h0mi) when is easter
[19:51] (yeliab) it's not an opinion
[19:51] (astrodog) yel: You get more money out of the lottery, than your ticket costs.
[19:51] (astrodog) That doesn't mean you should stock up on lucky lotto.
[19:51] (Josh12) Today is going to be a ver y hot day, providing more evidence of global warming
[19:51] (KoBushi) cost risk benefit analysis!
[19:51] (astrodog) yeliab: There are some great reasons to support it... that's not one of them.
[19:51] (astrodog) KoB: Righto.
[19:52] (KoBushi) hoooray judge Hand!
[19:52] (Josh12) Gonzales may burn up tomorrow
[19:52] (yeliab) astrodog: then what do you believe?
[19:53] (tnzr) Eeyore: is that your bible against global warming or something?
[19:54] (Eeyore) tnzr no i am not dogmatic about GW. its not a religion with me, it is however for many people who argue with me. it seems as if they dont understand science. its just not in absolutes and it doesnt ignore for example, global warming on Mars, Jupiter, Triton and so on and of course the sun
[19:54] (yeliab) http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/12/1206_041206_global_warming.html
[19:54] (BillFrugg) it should tell you something that all liberals believe global warming is caused by man, and that the solution to it is liberalism!
[19:54] (tnzr) Eeyore: at this rate?
[19:55] (yeliab) it's not a partisan issue
[19:55] (yeliab) the enviroment is not worth fucking around with
[19:55] (BillFrugg) yeliab, it is natural -- it runs in cycles
[19:55] (yeliab) or gambling on
[19:55] (Eeyore) tnzr at what rate? and please watch that movie, the GW swindle. its out there. hell I can DCC it to you if yuw ant
[19:55] (BillFrugg) man is powerless and insignificant to do change it
[19:56] (yeliab) BillFrugg: what do you base this on?
[19:56] (abum) no we aren't
[19:56] (yeliab) science?
[19:56] (yeliab) well if you do base it on science, read http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/12/1206_041206_global_warming.html
[19:56] (WyldOcsar) another national geographic link: mars is warming up too -- http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html
[19:56] (BillFrugg) yeliab -- science
[19:56] (BillFrugg) yeliab, look at the sun
[19:57] (yeliab) my basic point is we have nothing to lose by addressing the possibilty that global warming may be real
[19:57] (observer) ooh someone got klined
[19:57] (WyldOcsar) is man causing warming on mars
[19:57] (Eeyore) WyldOcsar not to mention Jupiter and triton. if i said Jupiter and mars I might be warning about the Age of Aquarious
[19:57] (MissLaVey) heh
[19:57] (MissLaVey) that was lovely
[19:57] (Eeyore) WyldOcsar yes we sent up all those little electric cars
[19:57] (duffsterr) niiiiice, global warming revalation theocratz..........
[19:57] (observer) i havent seen a kline in forver :D
[19:57] (yeliab) show me (credible) evidence of global warming being a hoax
[19:57] (TheTailor) yeliab, global warming is real, we used to be covered in ice.
[19:57] (MissLaVey) nah, i was only /kill'd
[19:58] (duffsterr) this crap is all about global bushism.......
[19:58] (KoBushi) later
[19:58] (TheTailor) yeliab, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU
[19:58] (BillFrugg) do you really want to destroy the economy over kook theories?
[19:59] (duffsterr) helllll yeahhhhhh......
[19:59] (duffsterr) poor al gore.....
[19:59] (abum) the rest of the world is already making changes
[19:59] (TheTailor) Save the salamanders!
[19:59] (duffsterr) abum, they are?? where????
[19:59] (TheTailor) abum, no they aren't.
[19:59] (ishimi) how long have we known about this oil crisis and consumption... it seems like it has been enough time for the engineering geniuses to come up with an alternative fuel ????
[19:59] (abum) just read the news
[19:59] (abum) its all out there
[19:59] (duffsterr) abum, WHAT NEWS????
[19:59] (BillFrugg) abum, did you momma ever ask you about all your friends jumping off a cliff?
[19:59] (TheTailor) ishimi, they are.
[19:59] (duffsterr) abum, ART BELL NEWS??????
[20:00] (Eeyore) anyway as I said, I havent got time for global warming im still busy preparing my house for Y2K and Killer BEES
[20:00] (TheTailor) abum, no it's not.
[20:00] (BillFrugg) abum doesn't have any proof -- he never does
[20:00] (duffsterr) Eeyore, lol
[20:00] (Josh12) Democrat scandal -- Man having sex with a woman other than his wife
[20:00] (Eeyore) :*)
[20:00] (yeliab) i cant really watch a 75 min video
[20:00] (abum) PARIS, March 9 -- European Union leaders agreed Friday to take the 27-country bloc beyond the targets of the 1997 Kyoto Protocol on global warming, agreeing to legally binding reductions in greenhouse gas emissions and increasing the use of renewable energy.
[20:00] (yeliab) but i will at a later time
[20:01] (ishimi) they haven't progressed very far as far as an alternative fuel... what is it and where ??
[20:01] (duffsterr) abum, Iowa yearns for Ethanol stations to come on board in the market........ they fail everytime........... has nothing to do with the OIL CARTELS so-called.... $2.49 here today...... per gallon.......
[20:01] (abum) see
[20:01] (BillFrugg) kyoto... lol
[20:01] (yeliab) what about this: does iran have nukes?
[20:01] (abum) just have to read the news
[20:01] (yeliab) israel*
[20:01] (yeliab) does israel have nukes
[20:01] (BillFrugg) how's the ozone hole?
[20:02] (duffsterr) cost more money to embrace ethanol and to have ethanol stations than to sustain the oil stations of today and yester-year.......
[20:02] (abum) hows the hole in your head
[20:02] (abum) pwnd
[20:02] (Eeyore) BillFrugg well its been pre empted by TIDAL LOCK!
[20:02] (duffsterr) poor GREEN PARTY....... pooooooor RALPH NADER......... dumbass........
[20:02] (BillFrugg) no, abum. that's a legit question. Gore ran around claiming the ozone hole was the cause of global warming
[20:02] (Swigert) hey
[20:03] (BillFrugg) abum, you don't know shit about what you say
[20:03] (Swigert) duff: Canada now has a Green Party. We call them the Watermelons
[20:03] (Eeyore) Tidal lock is what we all have to worry about now. see, more people move from east to west causing a aslowing of the earths rotation resulting in tidal lock in 70 years whihc will cook 1/2 the world and freeze the otehr half
[20:03] (duffsterr) Al Gore invented the Internet....... whoa!
[20:03] (duffsterr) Swigert, ahahahahhahahahahahahahaha
[20:03] (Eeyore) the only way to fix it is communism and give all your money to Africa
[20:03] (CryHavoc) DUffles!!!!
[20:03] (duffsterr) Swigert, wait a second.... hahhaha... wait a second...... that's RACIST!!!!!!!!! lol
[20:03] (Swigert) duff: believe it or not they have more credibility than the socialist party
[20:03] (Swigert) duff: how is it racist?
[20:03] (CryHavoc) wassup gilf seeker??
[20:04] (duffsterr) Swigert, yure not from the SOUTH..... er, America...
[20:04] (duffsterr) nm........
[20:04] (Josh12) Burn up the world before it turns socialist
[20:04] (CryHavoc) he is from South Canada...
[20:04] (CryHavoc) Duffsterr wants to move to Florida...lots of Gilf here LOL
[20:04] (CryHavoc) and GGilf too
[20:04] (Josh12) Does anyone know I am here?
[20:04] (CryHavoc) I do
[20:05] (duffsterr) is Canada American????? i guess they're in North American continent....
[20:05] (Swigert) duff: oh I get it - fried chicken and watermelon
[20:05] (CryHavoc) Duffsterr...common Law marriage
[20:05] (duffsterr) Swigert, yeah, chocolate city......... lol
[20:05] (Eeyore) no one thoyught tida lock was funny I guess. hmm... maybe tehre is real money in it then. I better call the UN and get a grant
[20:05] (CryHavoc) Swigert..no...bling bling chains and a Ford Expedition
[20:05] (BillFrugg) I guess abum is too embarrassed to respond
[20:05] (CryHavoc) sheesh...these canuks know nothing about the south
[20:05] (ishimi) duff... yes it's going to be more expensive but don't you worry about pollution and the exhaustian of oil ressources... think of your children !!
[20:06] (King_Kong) Think of the world
[20:06] * CryHavoc downs KK
[20:06] * CryHavoc calls Mario
[20:06] (Hiker_) VETO VETO VETO - Do it now...let's get it on.
[20:06] (duffsterr) ishimi, yeahhhhh, all the future children of today are ADD or ADHD or whatever the hell........ amen........
[20:06] (ishimi) exhaution...
[20:06] (Swigert) cry: I'm gonna find out in a big way
[20:06] (King_Kong) hi
[20:06] (td) Bush isnt going to veto
[20:06] (CryHavoc) Duffsterr..or all fucked up from theses stupid ailment tags
[20:06] (CryHavoc) Bush will Veto it..
[20:06] (BillFrugg) why not, td?
[20:06] (qwertykat) bush is hot
[20:07] (CryHavoc) now way for an override
[20:07] (ishimi) and i wonder why they have add and adhd autism and diabetes
[20:07] (CryHavoc) Diabetes.,.ok
[20:07] (duffsterr) CryHavoc, you mean, they are work brittle?
[20:07] (BillFrugg) if he signed that damned bill, I'd vote to impeach him
[20:07] (CryHavoc) ADD ADHD...bullshit
[20:07] (duffsterr) er, dont wanna work????
[20:07] (duffsterr) lol
[20:07] (Hiker_) I'd like him to veto it, and then wad it up and chok Nancy Pelosi to death with it by cramming it down her throat on pay per view
[20:07] (CryHavoc) Hyperactive troublemakers...
[20:07] (qwertykat) the way his gray hair frames his face is just really really yummy
[20:07] (duffsterr) yeah, i just said that politely.... lol
[20:07] (td) well he really could not veto it, and keep the troops there indefinetly anyways
[20:07] (King_Kong) No president has ever been impeached
[20:07] (CryHavoc) thats what they were called when I was a kid
[20:07] (td) just to get his money now
[20:07] (qwertykat) he is a peach
[20:07] (CryHavoc) I was one
[20:07] (qwertykat) what? A peach
[20:07] (TheTailor) qwertykat, sooo, you need an eye exam 'eh?
[20:07] (CometBaby) sorry to dissappoint you king .. clinton was impeached
[20:07] (Hiker_) Kong...two presidents have been impeached
[20:07] (CryHavoc) King Kong...2 have..
[20:07] (BillFrugg) King_Kong is delusional
[20:08] (CryHavoc) none have been convicted
[20:08] (duffsterr) hell we had fights after school, lasted 5 seconds, shook hands, went on in life..
[20:08] (King_Kong) No they havn't
[20:08] (qwertykat) king kong is a fruitcake
[20:08] (Swigert) duff: ah the good old days
[20:08] (CometBaby) King is going to tell us that blow jobs are not sex and clinton was not impeached :)
[20:08] (King_Kong) They were brought to ct, but never got kicked out of office
[20:08] (qwertykat) mmmm....fruitcake
[20:08] (Hiker_) Kong...just drink the kool aid, you'll be better in a few minutes
[20:08] (Swigert) The Univ of Winnipeg says that bathrooms should be unisex
[20:08] (CryHavoc) Impeachment - THe act of a trial in the senate to determine Presidential Wrongdoing..
[20:08] (BillFrugg) King_Kong, go study history and impeachment
[20:08] (Hiker_) Kong...see, you just don't know what impeached means
[20:08] (King_Kong) ah ah fine fine
[20:08] (King_Kong) you got me
[20:09] (duffsterr) Swigert, yes, a virtue of personal responsibility......... amen.........
[20:09] (CryHavoc) Andrew Kackson and Bill Clinton have both been impeached
[20:09] (TheTailor) And lying to a grand jury doesn't matter.
[20:09] (King_Kong) still they didn't get kicked out of the office
[20:09] (CryHavoc) they were not convicted
[20:09] (King_Kong) so that part I'm still right at
[20:09] (King_Kong) I still get points don't I?
[20:09] (CryHavoc) TT in Liberaland...Lying to a GJ is a oK
[20:09] (Hiker_) Cry...it was Andrew JOHNSON
[20:09] (Swigert) duff: what do liberals know of personal responsibility?
[20:09] (TheTailor) King_Kong, yeah but we already knew that
[20:09] (Hiker_) Not Andy Jackson
[20:09] (abum) isn't that what scooter libby did
[20:09] (CryHavoc) Andrew Johnson
[20:10] (BillFrugg) abum, you're full of shit
[20:10] (CryHavoc) too many Randy Dandy Andys to remember
[20:10] (TheTailor) abum, not until an appeal is over
[20:10] (qwertykat) bored now...
[20:10] (CryHavoc) Jackson should have been imnpeached
[20:10] (duffsterr) Swigert, hahahaha, i dont know, i just heard tonight that the Democrats HATE Individual Liberty if u have IMAMS on a plane deceiving people...... that is pathetic......
[20:10] (TheTailor) abum, but of course, Libby wasn't president.
[20:10] (BillFrugg) night
[20:10] (Hiker_) the said Johnson's wife was a whore and they tried to impeach him when he refused to cow tow to congress on reconstructon
[20:10] (Eeyore) bbiab time to walk the dog
[20:11] (CryHavoc) Kudos to him...
[20:11] (CryHavoc) but it did not matter..
[20:11] (CryHavoc) US Grant allowed them to put the South under the boot
[20:12] (Swigert) Sherman too
[20:12] (Swigert) duff: why are liberals so odd?
[20:13] (CryHavoc) Swiggy I am talking about post Civil war...
[20:13] (duffsterr) Swigert, TODAY?? MOST OF THEM ARE NOT....... but their leadership IS NOT TRULY liberal........ they hate BUSH....... or (R)'s...........
[20:13] (Swigert) duff: ya think?
[20:13] (Hiker_) Know why liberals stink? So blind people can hate them too
[20:13] (CryHavoc) Grant was sorely incompetent as prez...but man did his cronies have fun
[20:13] (Kabewaki) Hi swiggy
[20:13] (CryHavoc) issat Kali?? :)
[20:13] (Kabewaki) yup
[20:13] (CryHavoc) Kali Kali FoFali...hehehe
[20:14] (Kabewaki) Cry -- one of the guys we had problems with last night -- done stole my nick..
[20:14] (CryHavoc) I got some of what I ordered Kali...
[20:14] (Swigert) kabewaki: hey
[20:14] (duffsterr) Swigert, wellllllllll, i hate to say this but karl marx would be very proud today........
[20:14] (TomM--) good evening minority!
[20:14] (CryHavoc) Tommie!!!!
[20:14] (Swigert) duff: no he'd be ashamed
[20:14] (astrodog) duff: Marx would be pretty horrified...
[20:14] (TheTailor) utoh
[20:14] (CryHavoc) I was getting prepared for you coming down to the dome
[20:14] (astrodog) He hated the idea of corporations.
[20:14] (TheTailor) It's HIM
[20:14] (CryHavoc) muhehehehe
[20:14] (duffsterr) hahahaha
[20:14] (duffsterr) uh oh....
[20:14] (TomM--) CryHavoc better lock and load!! :)
[20:14] (duffsterr) i hit the kill -9 all .........
[20:15] (CryHavoc) no...I have better then that..
[20:15] (CryHavoc) 6 types of rings...necklaces...Bangles...
[20:15] * CryHavoc will bankrupt TomM--
[20:15] (astrodog) Bangles?
[20:15] (CryHavoc) Jade Bangle Bracelets
[20:15] (astrodog) Isn't that a crappy 80s band?
[20:15] (CryHavoc) read Astro...read
[20:15] (Kabewaki) bangles look like a letter C can make them larger or smaller to fit wrist
[20:15] (TomM--) Cry u probably will..the evil one loves that kinda shit! :)
[20:16] (CryHavoc) C bracelets I call cuff bracelets
[20:16] (CryHavoc) bangles are a solid circle
[20:16] (duffsterr) astrodog, he sure hated stock owners who owned a piece of PRO PER TY of that corporation????????
[20:16] (CryHavoc) these are pieces of Jade in a bangle shape...
[20:16] (CryHavoc) I will be armed with various colors
[20:16] (astrodog) Crappy 80s band.
[20:17] (duffsterr) manic monday?
[20:17] (CryHavoc) astro...bangle bracelet......
[20:17] * CryHavoc dents Astrodog with his BaLING hOOK OF eNLIGHTMENT
[20:17] (TomM--) Cry is the crazy midget gonna be there?
[20:18] (Kabewaki) can't bend Jade...
[20:18] (CryHavoc) lol
[20:18] (CryHavoc) Kaliuna is herb@fuck.you.blow-me.net
[20:18] (CryHavoc) on @#dumbliuna
[20:18] (CryHavoc) pest...
[20:18] (Kabewaki) Cry -- yup he's one of the ones kicked out last night or night before
[20:18] (CryHavoc) Kabewaki..it can be cut though
[20:18] (CryHavoc) like an O
[20:18] (Kabewaki) cry - thats true
[20:18] (TomM--) someone steal ur nick Kal?
[20:19] (CryHavoc) I have a rainbow of colors now too..
[20:19] (Kabewaki) TomM -- yup
[20:19] (CryHavoc) from white green...to Black
[20:19] (TomM--) assholes!
[20:19] (CryHavoc) TomM-- tax them!!
[20:19] (CryHavoc) TomM-- I will have some jade rings that will fit a male now too..
[20:19] (CryHavoc) they are carved ones
[20:20] (Kabewaki) carved into what?
[20:20] (TomM--) CryHavoc I dont do jewelry...wedding band, wrist watch..thats about it..Im not a Republican for chrz sakes! :)
[20:20] (CryHavoc) they have carving on the ring surface
[20:21] (CryHavoc) no TomM-- yer left behind..you are a closet jewelry hound
[20:21] (Kabewaki) what does the carving look like?
[20:21] (TomM--) I would be interested in buying Twobar something though...
[20:21] (CryHavoc) a clover or a flower...and some chinese characters
[20:21] (CryHavoc) I also have some bangle bracelets with dragons on them
[20:21] (Kabewaki) ahhh -- but for a guy?
[20:22] (Kabewaki) ohhh love dragons if they are properly carved
[20:22] (CryHavoc) well Kali..in a bout a month I will have some of those...
[20:22] (Kalomine) got any male emerald jewelry?
[20:22] (CryHavoc) they were hell on earth to find...
[20:22] (CryHavoc) Kalo..I do not deal in Emeralds..
[20:22] (Kabewaki) yup Cry I know they are
[20:23] (CryHavoc) I have some raw emeralds...but they are for my own use..
[20:23] (CryHavoc) Kali...2 months to find someone who could make them...
[20:23] (CryHavoc) the fuckers on Ebay would not give a decent price...they want to sell one at a fucking time
[20:23] (TomM--) Cry is this market inside?
[20:23] (kennuth) thanks comet
[20:23] (Kabewaki) Cry - I'll bet! sold a lot of bangle (w magnets) with dragon and peacock design on them
[20:23] (CryHavoc) so..I ordered 100
[20:23] (CometBaby) no problem :)
[20:24] (Kabewaki) hi Comet -- someone stole my nick -- one of the pests we had here other night
[20:24] (CryHavoc) these will be cut jade in red and green
[20:24] (CometBaby) well use Kaliuna^
[20:24] (Kabewaki) ohhh green dragon -- ok
[20:24] (Kabewaki) ok coment
[20:24] * Kabewaki is now known as Kaliuna^
[20:24] (CryHavoc) Kali...the standard..
[20:25] (Kaliuna^) :)
[20:25] (CometBaby) yeah
[20:25] (Kaliuna^) Comet -- ya..
[20:25] (CometBaby) you are you again
[20:25] (CometBaby) lol
[20:25] (CryHavoc) imagine two months negotiating with the makers of them,....
[20:25] (CryHavoc) very very wearing
[20:25] (Kaliuna^) Cry -- I believe it -- let me know when you get green in... :)
[20:25] * Swigert is now known as Kaliuna-
[20:25] (TomM--) CryHavoc is that your primary business?
[20:25] (CryHavoc) about 30 days
[20:25] (Kaliuna-) Hi everyone! I have cookies for everyone!!!
[20:25] * Kaliuna- is now known as Swigert
[20:25] (CryHavoc) TomM-- sort of...
[20:25] (Kaliuna^) Cry -- no hurry...
[20:25] * SonOfSpam sets Swigert on fire
[20:25] (CryHavoc) no jobs to be found of consequence..
[20:25] (Swigert) ouch! hot!
[20:26] * Swigert is now known as CalGal
[20:26] (CometBaby) hahahaha
[20:26] (Kaliuna^) ohhhhh ouch
[20:26] * CryHavoc ratchets open SonOfSpam
[20:26] (CometBaby) hahaha
[20:26] (SonOfSpam) ow ow ow
[20:26] (Swigert) hey
[20:26] (CometBaby) hahaha
[20:26] (Swigert) CB: okay bad joke I admit
[20:26] (CometBaby) nick flooder ;)
[20:26] (TomM--) no..thats not the Calgal from the old days?
[20:26] (Kaliuna^) Absolutely gorgeous day here
[20:26] (CryHavoc) same here
[20:26] (CometBaby) [10:25] * CalGal was kicked by starly (NickFlood)
[20:26] (CometBaby) you changed your nick too rapidly
[20:26] (CryHavoc) except driving up to Sarasota for Jewelry supplies..no fun
[20:26] (CometBaby) bots nailed ya
[20:27] * CryHavoc Nick CryComet
[20:27] (Kaliuna^) they will do that...
[20:27] (CometBaby) cry what do you do with this jewelry?
[20:27] (CryHavoc) sell it locally CB....
[20:27] (duffsterr) astrodog, wait a second....
[20:27] (CryHavoc) ebay is not an adequate venue for it..
[20:27] (CometBaby) Cry .. can't they get it on ebay directly? lol
[20:27] (Kaliuna^) duffy -- duffy -- gorgeous day - MOW that lawn!
[20:27] (duffsterr) astrodog, wait a second.... Karl Marx loved democracy....??????
[20:27] (CryHavoc) but I can sit on ass at stall at flea marlet and sell sell sell
[20:27] (Kalomine) anyone here do lampwork beads?
[20:28] (CryHavoc) CB...sure they can....
[20:28] (CryHavoc) 20 bucks a Kilo shipping out of China
[20:28] (CometBaby) Cry you sell in a flea market?
[20:28] (duffsterr) Kaliuna^, i will, after i sabotage yure sat dish........ u belton girl..... :P
[20:28] (CometBaby) people buy emeralds there?
[20:28] (CryHavoc) yes CB...but at an established indoor one
[20:28] (CometBaby) wow
[20:28] (CryHavoc) some people there sell higher end stuff yes
[20:28] (TomM--) CometBaby I will give u a comprehensive report on Monday...with photos...:)
[20:28] (Kaliuna^) Duffy -- hahaha
[20:29] (CometBaby) TomM .. lol
[20:29] (duffsterr) Kaliuna^, quit making 18% on your money, that's horrrible....... shame on uuuuu...........
[20:29] (CryHavoc) I will shortly have some Buddhas and a Kwan Yin Figurine for sale
[20:29] (Kaliuna^) Duffy -- but its for my retirement ya know
[20:29] (duffsterr) Kaliuna^, haha, yeah, i gotta go in soon for my 403b crapola.....
[20:29] (CryHavoc) Kali if Duffles gets to cranky..kick him into traffic
[20:29] (Kaliuna^) duffy -- soon - tomorrow!
[20:29] (astrodog) duff: Eh?
[20:29] (Kaliuna^) Cry - lol
[20:30] (Kaliuna^) Cry - I might bowl him down though :)
[20:30] (duffsterr) Kaliuna^, CryHavoc dont believe in ...... uhhh....... hmmmm.... wait a second.....
[20:30] (TomM--) CryHavoc do u have any silk screen portraits of Bill Clinton?
[20:30] (astrodog) Or better yet... a jade bust of him.
[20:30] (Cathy344) I'm such an old soul, I was born with menopause.
[20:30] (astrodog) :P
[20:30] (CryHavoc) no...why would I want those...
[20:30] (CryHavoc) maybe Clinton Toilet paper...
[20:30] (CryHavoc) astro..no fucking way..
[20:31] (TomM--) CryHavoc well they would sell...I just asked..I am shopping you know!
[20:31] (astrodog) Silkscreen printing on toilet paper would be pretty expensive, wouldn't it?
[20:31] (Cathy344) You know what was on Clinton's toilet paper, don't ya?
[20:31] (Kaliuna^) Comet -- you looked at the Noaa Radar bit? we gonna get wet!!
[20:31] (Cathy344) The Constitution.
[20:31] (CryHavoc) the Buddhas and Kwan Yin are made from Myanmar Jadeite...so they will not be cheap
[20:31] (duffsterr) clinton is a joke.... he costed Al Gore the election in 2000.......... not just Ralph Nader.......... lets blow wads on an intern........ and by the way, he is STILL MARRIED to his WIFE, WHO IS NOW RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!
[20:31] (CryHavoc) Cathy344....whatever I did not blow out of my suna
[20:31] (astrodog) You've got Jade buddhas?
[20:31] (Eeyore) Myanmar Jadeite (Burma jade) can be psycho expensive, what color?
[20:31] (duffsterr) unreal......
[20:31] (CryHavoc) astro...shortly yes
[20:32] (TomM--) CryHavoc what are your price ranges? Can I buy anything for say...three dollars? :)
[20:32] (astrodog) Cry: Got a picture?
[20:32] (duffsterr) where is the media.......
[20:32] (CometBaby) kali .. no, I haven't looked
[20:32] (duffsterr) no 1 cares....
[20:32] (CryHavoc) I have some silver pins and charms for 3 bucks...
[20:32] (CryHavoc) Kwan Yin is gonna be $150
[20:32] (CryHavoc) Myanmar Jadeite is the highest quality of Jade
[20:33] (Eeyore) can be
[20:33] (CryHavoc) fucking Customs best not interfere either..like they did before
[20:33] (TomM--) sigh tomorrow Senor Alberto's Chief of Staff is going to testify....Hasta la Vista Alberto!! :)
[20:33] (astrodog) Cry: What about the Buddha?
[20:33] (duffsterr) TomM--, 3 dollars? that's not even minimum wage............
[20:33] (Kaliuna^) Comet -- huge n)(s system -- and I do mean huge
[20:33] (CryHavoc) one sec astro
[20:34] (Eeyore) Good jadeide can be more than diamond
[20:34] (duffsterr) TomM--, why do u hate hispanics......?
[20:34] (TomM--) duffsterr geez I on Social Security...:)
[20:34] (duffsterr) niiiiiice, "I on" ...... very nice...
[20:34] (Kaliuna^) lunch break --- BRB
[20:34] (TheTailor) CryHavoc, China has great Jadite too, and in more colors.
[20:34] (CometBaby) well, when I was in HK .. they had baskets of jade crap .. pendants, earrings, rings etc ... for $1 each. They are stamped out .. not carved. Mostly junk. But you know, people here think they are pretty neat.
[20:34] (TomM--) duffsterr same reason I stopped beating my wife...what kind of a question is that?
[20:34] (CometBaby) lol
[20:35] (duffsterr) TomM--, u have a wife?
[20:35] (TheTailor) CometBaby, those are likely Nephrite.
[20:35] (Eeyore) TheTailor most Chinese jade is 'mutton jade' or nephrite and a lot of it comes from BC
[20:35] (CometBaby) TT I see that same stuff here .. sold all over the place as jade
[20:35] (TomM--) Cry you sell Commie Jade?
[20:35] (TheTailor) Eeyore, that doesn't mean China doesn't have good and in fact great Jadite.
[20:35] (CometBaby) on the other hand .. I have seem some very, very nice jade pieces too. And have purchased several of them.
[20:35] (TheTailor) CometBaby, yeah, it's crap
[20:36] (Eeyore) TheTailor no it doesnt. It does mean Im unaware of it :*)
[20:36] * del_away is now known as DeLimmer
[20:36] (duffsterr) CometBaby, hk has flat tax :)
[20:37] (TheTailor) Eeyore, hold up an 11 carat beauuutiful Jadite from China.
[20:37] (CometBaby) duff .. lol
[20:37] (CryHavoc) www.floridatreasure.net/pictures/ppics/
[20:37] (CryHavoc) the pic of what the trader has is there
[20:37] (Eeyore) TheTailor Id love to. I have been out of the biz for some time now though
[20:37] (CometBaby) well you know me .. I am not big into jewelry anyway .. it's all pretty much overpriced junk to me.
[20:38] (CryHavoc) the Kwan Yin figurine I am getting is the green one towards the back
[20:38] (CometBaby) my husband bought me a vase in HK that is jade .. it has many colors in it and chinese letters carved into it. It is my favorite piece. It stands about 16" tall and weighs a ton.
[20:38] (astrodog) Cry: Its kinda hard to get a sense of scale...
[20:38] (CometBaby) I have two matching jade vases that we bought in Thailand. They are gorgeous.
[20:38] (CryHavoc) well..she will stand about 6-7 inches high
[20:38] (astrodog) Gotcha.
[20:38] (astrodog) How much for the front left Buddha? :P
[20:38] (duffsterr) CometBaby, hug your husband.... :)
[20:38] (CometBaby) I enjoy the jade objects we bought .. but I didn't want any jewelry.
[20:38] (kennuth) Comet....a traveller
[20:38] (CryHavoc) Chinese Jade is lower quality ..but still jade...
[20:38] (Eeyore) CometBaby its nephrite I promise you
[20:39] (CometBaby) duff I do .. a lot :)
[20:39] (CryHavoc) Nephrite Jade
[20:39] (TheTailor) CryHavoc, it's hard to see the green in that picture
[20:39] (CometBaby) eeyore .. nope .. not what I have.
[20:39] (CryHavoc) TT I can fine enough
[20:39] (kennuth) I'd love to see thailand
[20:39] (Kaliuna^) ((( ahh that helps...
[20:39] (Eeyore) CometBaby you have a vase mode of actual Jadite?
[20:39] (kennuth) and vietnam
[20:39] (CometBaby) kennuth it was one of my favorite countries tht we visited.
[20:39] (CryHavoc) Burma has top quality Kadeite...but they have governmental issues..
[20:39] (kennuth) I hear its beautiful
[20:39] (CometBaby) eeyore .. I have 3 of them
[20:39] (Kalomine) Cometbaby is chinese for "oddity to be approached and harrassed"
[20:39] (CometBaby) two purchased in thailand .. one in Hong Kong
[20:39] (CryHavoc) CB are they Nephrite or Jadeite?
[20:40] (Eeyore) CryHavoc thats putting it mildly and CometBaby have you had them appreised by a gemmologist?
[20:40] (duffsterr) omgoodness......
[20:40] (CryHavoc) the Thai ones could be Jadeite
[20:40] (CometBaby) they are jadeite
[20:40] (CryHavoc) EEyore..this is business....
[20:40] (kennuth) Where is a good place to buy amber jewellry?
[20:40] (astrodog) They could all be Jadeite... or none of them might be. So long as CB enjoys them, I don't see how it matters much.
[20:40] (astrodog) ;)
[20:40] (Eeyore) kennuth Tuclson in February
[20:40] (duffsterr) astrodog, ahahahahahahaa
[20:40] (CryHavoc) Amber slingers are worse then Jade traders
[20:40] (duffsterr) LOLOL
[20:40] (Eeyore) Tucson
[20:41] (TomM--) CryHavoc I have some ivory pieces I brought home years ago...are they valuable in that market?
[20:41] (CometBaby) eeyore my husband had someone look at them in Hong Kong but we did not get a certificate on them. He told us they were the best quality jade.
[20:41] (astrodog) CryHavoc, How much for the front left Buddha? :P
[20:41] (duffsterr) astrodog, yure in lynx right now....
[20:41] (CryHavoc) astro..Nephrite and Jadeite are both jade..but Jadeite is a rarer type
[20:41] (kennuth) I'd have a problem with ivory...although I have a lot of it in my estate stuff
[20:41] (astrodog) Cry: So? I don't see comet trying to resell them.
[20:41] (Eeyore) CometBaby well, I was a gemmologist for 15 years. I have yet to see a piece of jadeite big enough for a vase other than in the smithsonian
[20:41] (CryHavoc) astro...small Buddha is $75 ..medium one is $100
[20:41] (CometBaby) the one we purchased in HK was $500 US that is the tall one, with many colors .. mostly red.
[20:41] (astrodog) They could be f'ing glass, for all it matters. As long as she likes em.
[20:41] (TheTailor) TomM--! Trading in Ivory is illegal!!
[20:41] (astrodog) :P
[20:42] (CryHavoc) that would prob be Nephritic Jade..
[20:42] (Eeyore) CryHavoc nephrite isnt really jade at all but its called that. its a difrent mineral all together
[20:42] (CryHavoc) China has mostly mephrite
[20:42] (TomM--) TheTailor shaaadap! :)
[20:42] (CryHavoc) EEyore..both types are called jade...
[20:42] (Eeyore) CryHavoc yes
[20:42] (CometBaby) the two we bought in thailand are about .. guessing .. 7" tall ?? Almost perfect matches.
[20:42] (CryHavoc) a chemical test has to be done to determine the difference
[20:42] (TheTailor) TomM-- hates the elphants :-(
[20:42] (Eeyore) but not properly.
[20:42] (TomM--) TheTailor I have a chess set I would be interested in having evaluated...
[20:42] (CryHavoc) Nephrite is harder then Jadeite
[20:43] (TheTailor) hmm
[20:43] (kennuth) which is more valuable
[20:43] (TheTailor) Jadite
[20:43] (CryHavoc) Jadeite is
[20:43] (CometBaby) I also bought a piece of raw jade at the jade market in hong kong.
[20:43] (Eeyore) nephrite wrecks your laps and is waxy looking. Jadiete can look like emerald
[20:43] (CryHavoc) as such I had to talk to a LOT of people...
[20:43] (TheTailor) But I think Jadite is a tougher stone, I'm not sure about it's hardness.
[20:43] (CryHavoc) Jadeite carved Rings...$300 each lolol
[20:43] (TomM--) oh just got that...yeah I do dislike elephants!! :)
[20:43] (CryHavoc) Mohs scale
[20:43] (Eeyore) TheTailor as I recall the hardness is about a 7 but its way tough
[20:43] (TheTailor) CryHavoc, you know of course gem quality Jadite has been found in Wyoming.
[20:44] (TomM--) and Utah
[20:44] (Eeyore) cool
[20:44] (Kaliuna^) and few other scattered places
[20:44] (CometBaby) when we were in the phillipines .. I got some beautiful vases. They are black and completely covered with hand carving
[20:44] (Eeyore) The US has some great stones. Bixbieite is my fave gem and its only found in the US as far as I know
[20:44] (CometBaby) wood
[20:44] (kennuth) Jeez comet...where have you not been
[20:45] (CryHavoc) http://www.bernardine.com/gemstones/jade.htm
[20:45] (CryHavoc) Jadeite is called the true jade...
[20:45] (CometBaby) kennuth to europe
[20:45] (CryHavoc) but Nephrite is so similar to it in composition...
[20:45] (CometBaby) and no desire to go
[20:45] (Kaliuna^) I kinda prefer tanzenite (which I'm not spelling correctly)
[20:45] (CryHavoc) Imperial Jade is mostly in Myanmar...
[20:45] (kennuth) Hmm...europe eh...leave that to your retirement trip
[20:45] (CryHavoc) Tanzanite is expensive
[20:45] (TomM--) kennuth any where there is no scorched earth! :)
[20:45] (Eeyore) Kaliuna^ treated or untreated?
[20:46] (kennuth) Off the beaten track....i like that
[20:46] (CryHavoc) when Military takes control in Myanmar..they refuse to allow Jadeite export...
[20:46] (Kaliuna^) Eeyore -- I have a beatiful deep dark blue one --
[20:46] (CometBaby) I haven't been to Oz .. but almost went
[20:46] (kennuth) I was in Ethiopia last year....intesting stuff
[20:46] (TheTailor) CryHavoc, but it's smuggled out all the time.
[20:46] (CryHavoc) CB followed the Yellow Brick Raod
[20:46] (kennuth) but I lost 30 pounds in a month
[20:46] (CryHavoc) TT...yes..and death if yer caught..
[20:46] (Eeyore) Kaliuna^ thats treated. its trichroic so when treated its blue in one direction and a difrent purple in another. intreated it has an orange direction as well
[20:46] (CometBaby) we had a trip to hong kong planned and had a departure date and everything .. and then Hong Kong had the virus scare and we cancelled.
[20:46] (Kaliuna^) Comet - oh well they are going to build that OZ place -- in KC area
[20:46] (astrodog) Cry: No desire to go to Europe?
[20:47] (astrodog) Er
[20:47] (astrodog) Comet.
[20:47] (CryHavoc) now when the civilians control Myanmar...they exprot Jadeite for profit
[20:47] (astrodog) That's kinda sad, really.
[20:47] (CometBaby) we were going to make a side trip to HK that time.
[20:47] (CryHavoc) astro...maybe one day...
[20:47] (CometBaby) I mean Oz
[20:47] (CryHavoc) some things I want to see
[20:47] (Kaliuna^) Eeyore -- well lets put it this way -- its rare stone -- and its beautiful... also valuable
[20:47] (CometBaby) Oz = Austrailia
[20:47] (Eeyore) Kaliuna^ yes
[20:47] (astrodog) Cry: PM.
[20:47] (TomM--) been there done that
[20:47] (Kaliuna^) Eeyore we got it back in the mid-late 90s -- needless to say its in the safe now!! for safe keeping
[20:48] (Eeyore) Kaliuna^ i make the same mistake over and over again. I make the things I love into proffesions and ruin them for myself. Its why I wont go into politics :*)
[20:48] (astrodog) Comet: Its kinda sad, that you don't want to even go SEE europe. Heh.
[20:48] (Eeyore) Kaliuna^ good plan its fairly brittle and wears not that well.
[20:48] (CometBaby) Two places in Asia that I had not seen yet that I wanted to visit .. one was Oz and the other was going back to Thailand again.
[20:48] (CometBaby) a different part of thailand
[20:48] (Eeyore) Kaliuna^ so if you do wear it, not as a ring but as a pendant. much better for it
[20:48] (Kaliuna^) Eeyore - it happens that way. Also have some nice cut stones - a yellow diamond for one --
[20:48] * SonOfSpam hugs his new gun
[20:48] (kennuth) Europe is like taking a cruise...its easy and its comfortable...leave it for your 70's
[20:48] * SonOfSpam gushes
[20:49] (Eeyore) Kaliuna^ yeah I have some nice cinamon and pinkish ones from Oz. nice stuff
[20:49] (kennuth) Go to Africa
[20:49] (astrodog) SoS: Whacha got?
[20:49] (CometBaby) astro .. well, to be honest with you .. right now I don't want to do any int'l traveling.
[20:49] (TomM--) Comet when we you in Thailand?
[20:49] (TomM--) were
[20:49] (SonOfSpam) A brand new AR-15 with telescoping stock and holoscope sights... mmmm....
[20:49] (kennuth) I actually want to see Iran
[20:49] (kennuth) perspolis
[20:49] (astrodog) Comet: Eh. I enjoy traveling too much, to let assholes fuck it up.
[20:49] (Eeyore) ok tme for first attempt at sleep. g night all and see you again soon I hope. thanks for the great company
[20:49] (astrodog) :P
[20:49] (Kaliuna^) Eeyore -- and though not expensive some full facet cut topaz -- complete set that could be made into ring, earrings and pendant... fun ones
[20:49] (CometBaby) tom I have been there a couple of times .. about 5 yrs ago and 2-1/2 yrs ago
[20:49] (SonOfSpam) semi-auto black scary rifle bliss...
[20:50] (TomM--) cya Eee
[20:50] (_HellMngr) did you get a new AR?
[20:50] (SonOfSpam) Yes indeedy!
[20:50] (SonOfSpam) It is one of many "pooring into the streets of blood" as warned about.
[20:50] (SonOfSpam) I'm going to shoot paper targets with it.
[20:51] (_HellMngr) by paper targets you mean school children right?
[20:51] (SonOfSpam) Uh... no.
[20:51] (FreeTrad3) Abusive Domain or User
[20:51] (_HellMngr) omg everything the left has told me has been a lie
[20:51] (SonOfSpam) Pesky left.
[20:51] (astrodog) Hell: He means pregnant women.
[20:51] (_HellMngr) ah ok then
[20:51] (TomM--) Comet oh ok..about thirty years too late to have run in to me...I thought I saw you! :)
[20:51] (astrodog) Its how he thinks abortions should be performed.
[20:51] (Kaliuna^) no no -- he means these dumb congress critters
[20:51] (CometBaby) the last time we went to bangkok .. we went with some friends. When we arrived at the airport my husband exchanged $300 for thai $ .. and got something over $10,000. He had so many bills he couldn't get them into his billfold.
[20:51] (CometBaby) lol
[20:51] (astrodog) Kali: Woe unto he, who tries to shoot Webb. ;)
[20:51] (_HellMngr) My AR is sad because it has not killed any women and children
[20:52] (Kaliuna^) astrodog -- lol
[20:52] (SonOfSpam) My car is more likely to be involved in harming someone (probably myself) than any of my guns.
[20:52] (CryHavoc) Thais use baht
[20:52] (TomM--) Speaker Pelosi suggests the President take a deep breath and relax...lol
[20:52] (CryHavoc) Pelosi needs a Click in the head
[20:53] (CryHavoc) Shrieker Lugosi
[20:53] (_HellMngr) plastic pelosi
[20:53] (_HellMngr) I like how the Left has been hunting her
[20:53] (CryHavoc) powermad Grossi
[20:53] (kennuth) i find George bush relaxes me...its his cure and disarming smile I guess...and his simple manner
[20:53] (CryHavoc) Gerosi
[20:53] (TomM--) I thought it was a very motherly thing to say....now George just settle down...take a deep breath...everything will be ok..
[20:53] (CometBaby) the next day we went shopping and found some store that sold pounded silver .. absolutely gorgeous stuff. She decided she wanted a service for 12 in the silverware and chargers. The lady told her she would give her an addt'l 10% off if she paid cash rather than charged it. She spend all her money, her husbands money and then turned to us. Spent all our money too. LOL
[20:53] (TheTailor) CryHavoc, Nephrite (5-6) is considerably softer than Jadite (6.5-7).
[20:53] (CryHavoc) GEorge has Pelosi dartboards on his wall
[20:54] (CryHavoc) TT ok..got them mixed around
[20:54] (TheTailor) But they are both very tough stones
[20:54] (CryHavoc) chenically though they are similar
[20:54] (CometBaby) we had to walk back to the hotel with all this silverware and chargers etc. and man that stuff was HEAVY.
[20:54] (CometBaby) we were laughing all the way.
[20:54] (kennuth) George and his veto....I think that politics is getting interesting again
[20:54] (CryHavoc) Jadeite has a variety called Imperial Jade..
[20:54] (CometBaby) "last time we are going shopping with you"
[20:54] (CryHavoc) the most expensive sort
[20:54] (Kaliuna^) yes and he MUST veto this nonsense
[20:55] (Kaliuna^) Comet -- lol but they went the next time too
[20:55] (_HellMngr) which nonsense?
[20:55] (kennuth) cumon Kaliuna...where is your sporting nature
[20:55] (TomM--) Kal omg veto funds for the troops??? Oh no...would he do that?
[20:55] (CometBaby) kali yes .. and we got all our cash back that night :)
[20:55] (Kaliuna^) _HellMngr -- the nonsense put forth by time table stuff
[20:55] (Kaliuna^) Comet :)
[20:55] (_HellMngr) yeah
[20:55] (CryHavoc) CB how so...playing Paigow poker?
[20:55] (_HellMngr) that would empower the enemy
[20:55] (TheTailor) CryHavoc, they aren't really chemically similar, although they are in near the same groups
[20:55] (Kaliuna^) kennuth -- oh I enjoy sports -- I did go bowling tonight
[20:56] (kennuth) Oh fine....that's almost a sport
[20:56] (CometBaby) cry .. no. She wanted to pay cash to get the addt'l 10% off .. after their cash was gone .. she turned to us and said "Give me all your cash"
[20:56] (CometBaby) lol
[20:56] (CryHavoc) TT close enough so that they called both types Jade....and still do...
[20:56] (Kaliuna^) Tom - its not the $$ for troops he is vetoeing and you know it
[20:56] (TomM--) I just cant believe George would veto a bill that funds the troops...wow
[20:56] (CryHavoc) CB I was kidding hehe
[20:56] (Kaliuna^) kennuth well you don't want to be in front of me when I'm armed cause I aim, shoot and hit what I aim at -- :)
[20:56] (CryHavoc) TomM-- that bill was a fucking obscenity...
[20:56] (TheTailor) Jadite NaAlSi2O6... Nephrite Ca2(Mg,Fe)5Si8O22
[20:56] (kennuth) I wonder how the soldiers heading overseas feel about this fiasco
[20:56] (CryHavoc) 298 BILLIOn of Pork attached to it
[20:56] (CryHavoc) 28 Billion
[20:57] (TomM--) CryHavoc which one...the one in the House or Senate?
[20:57] (CryHavoc) the Hose bill was bad enough
[20:57] (Kaliuna^) kennuth - they are PO'd at Dems -- had four of them on radio today - due to deploy out in April
[20:57] (CometBaby) anyway after we had dinner and restocked on cash we went back out again .. and about midnight walking back .. we stopped and had a foot massage. Man that felt good.
[20:57] (kennuth) Kaliuna....would that be a strike? We shall duel at dawn....bowling for dollars
[20:57] (CryHavoc) Bush has some balls at least
[20:57] (abum) bush has no balls
[20:57] (abum) total coward
[20:57] (Kaliuna^) kennuth - no I'm talking bow/arrow (compound bow) or any gun or rifle
[20:58] (kennuth) Kal...it seems to me that they should be fuming at the president...cruddy war and no end in sight....its a blood bath for the soldiers
[20:58] (TheTailor) Jadite is a pyroxene and Nephrite a actinolite (like asbestos)
[20:58] (CryHavoc) yes
[20:58] (Kaliuna^) kennuth - more people are killed right here in USA than soldiers ...
[20:58] (CryHavoc) Imperial Jade is Jadeite...
[20:58] (TomM--) CryHavoc no..here we have an administration that puts 12 billion in cash on pallets, sends it to Iraq..and noone knows where the cash went..works for me that he would be upset over subisidies for farmers.
[20:58] (TheTailor) Jadite is tough stuff
[20:58] (TheTailor) Right
[20:58] (CryHavoc) its green color is almost luminescent
[20:59] (CryHavoc) and is VERY valuable
[20:59] (kennuth) George Bush is the Xerxes of the modern world.....Big army...no stategy
[20:59] (TheTailor) Yeah, mine is very green in a milky background, almost emerald green
[20:59] (CryHavoc) Imperial Jade Buddha 3 cm x 3 cm - $1000
[20:59] (TomM--) 100K bricks they called them...LOL
[20:59] (CometBaby) you haven't lived until you gone in a thai taxi :)
[20:59] (CometBaby) tuk tuk
[20:59] (Kaliuna^) lol
[21:00] (TheTailor) I would think 1000 is pretty cheap for that much,especially carved and Imperial grade.
[21:00] (CryHavoc) TT thats 1 inch by 1 inch lol
[21:00] (TheTailor) I know
[21:00] (CryHavoc) or a little more then an inch
[21:00] (CryHavoc) thats why it took me so long to track down items I wanted
[21:00] (TomM--) TheTailor all kidding aside I have been offered 20k for my ivory chess set!
[21:00] (TheTailor) I was offered $600 for mine 10 years ago, it's 11 carats
[21:01] (TheTailor) TomM--, I believe it.
[21:01] (CryHavoc) I can not hope to reasiltically sell something that costly where I sell
[21:01] (TheTailor) You you, elephant hater you.
[21:01] (TomM--) Im leaving it to my Grandson...
[21:01] * CryHavoc TomM-- has a Democrat/Republican CHess Set
[21:01] (CryHavoc) THe Kings are Bush and Gore
[21:01] (TheTailor) TomM--, do you even play chess?
[21:01] (CryHavoc) Bush and Clinton
[21:01] (CryHavoc) Al Gore is the Democrat Queen
[21:02] (TomM--) TheTailor I love chess.
[21:02] (ishimi) aloha
[21:02] (CometBaby) Toms chess set has elephants and jackasses :)
[21:02] (CryHavoc) heh
[21:02] (TomM--) The queens are me and Twobie!
[21:02] (Kaliuna^) TomM -- I bought a set for my oldest son at a garage sale - turns out it really IS ivory -- amazingly...
[21:02] (TheTailor) Oh brother
[21:02] (CryHavoc) no...Twobar is the opposing King...
[21:02] (CryHavoc) he has plans for you QUeen TomM--
[21:03] (CryHavoc) Twobars rooks will hold TomM-- down..
[21:03] (Kaliuna^) TomM they didn't know what they really had ...
[21:03] (TheTailor) Al Franken on Letterman
[21:03] (CryHavoc) while Twobars Knights hold him in place
[21:03] (TomM--) Im gettin hot!!
[21:03] (CryHavoc) figures...
[21:04] (CryHavoc) well..I need some sleep..gotta get rid of this headache...
[21:04] (CryHavoc) night peeps
[21:04] (Kaliuna^) CRY - two asprins -- see ya tomorrow
[21:05] (TomM--) see ya Cry
[21:05] (_HellMngr) kennuth: Bush is not a huge pierced leather queer though.
[21:06] (fordnut) whats the deal with these democrats pulling out
[21:06] (fordnut) or setting time tables
[21:06] (fordnut) acting like this is already lost
[21:07] (TomM--) fordnut lost what?
[21:07] (fordnut) what happened to stay till the job is done
[21:07] (fordnut) iraq
[21:07] (TheTailor) fordnut, well that was before they had to appease the far left.
[21:07] (TomM--) I thought the job was done when Sadaam was deposed, and the threat of WMDs was taken care of...what job are you talking about?
[21:08] (fordnut) how do you ask the people there to keep fighting and dying for another 120 days
[21:08] (TheTailor) TomM--, well you know, you were wrong.
[21:08] (fordnut) with a straight face
[21:08] (TomM--) TheTailor wrong about what?
[21:08] (TheTailor) [23:07] (TomM--) I thought the job was done when Sadaam was deposed, and the threat of WMDs was taken care of
[21:09] (TomM--) I thought we went into Iraq to remove Sadaam. Nation building wasnt mentioned.
[21:10] (TomM--) I musta missed that. :)
[21:10] (TheTailor) But stabilizing the new government was.
[21:10] (TheTailor) Frankin says Denmark has 20% of it's energy from wind, so we can do it too!
[21:11] (TheTailor) Of course Denmark has the population of a small city here...
[21:11] (TomM--) TheTailor as of yesterday...the Iraqi parliment has not been able to form a quorum in seven months. How can you stablize a government that doesnt want to govern?
[21:11] (abum) isn't it franken
[21:11] (TheTailor) You don't know they don't want to govern, perhaps they do things differently.
[21:11] (TheTailor) abum, yes, sorry
[21:12] (TomM--) TheTailor oh ok....geezuz!! lol
[21:12] (abum) he is running for senate
[21:12] (TheTailor) Yeah, that's what he's talking about on Letterman.
[21:12] (Kaliuna) HI IM DUMBLIUNA! A DUMB CUNT
[21:12] (Kaliuna) HI IM DUMBLIUNA! A DUMB CUNT
[21:12] (Kaliuna) HI IM DUMBLIUNA! A DUMB CUNT!
[21:12] (Kaliuna) HI IM DUMBLIUNA! A DUMB CUNT!!
[21:12] (TheTailor) Violating Channel Rules
[21:12] (Kaliuna) HI IM DUMBLIUNA! A DUMB CUNT!!!
[21:12] (starly) Kaliuna is banned (Requested by TheTailor )
[21:12] (TheTailor) Prick
[21:13] (Kaliuna^) TT - that he is --
[21:13] (TomM--) how does he get away with that?
[21:13] (duffsterr) stewart smalley???????
[21:13] (TheTailor) Well he changed the line to avoid the bot
[21:13] (Kaliuna^) yup and he's swiped just about everyone's nick
[21:13] (TomM--) his isp can be perm banned?
[21:13] (Kaliuna^) and keeps on keeping on...
[21:15] (TomM--) enough for me tonight...night all!
[21:15] (Kaliuna^) nit Tom
[21:15] (Kaliuna^) +e M
[21:15] (DStewart) You know, with the number of people I've pissed off, I'm kind of surprised that my nick hasn't been hijacked
[21:15] (duffsterr) TomM--, smooches, God bless.......
[21:15] (TheTailor) You forgot the period DStewart!
[21:15] (TomM--) not that I havnt tried DS!!!!! LOL
[21:15] (Kaliuna^) DS - oh actually it has -- saw it one night...
[21:15] (TheTailor) AGAIN!
[21:16] (e-Hernick) Greetings, fellow liberal conservatives.
[21:16] (DStewart) By the way, the fake Kaliuna is still observing the channel.
[21:16] (TheTailor) Lets all ask herb to take DStewart's nick.
[21:16] (DStewart) So that means that the asshole is still IN the channel.
[21:16] (Kaliuna^) DS -- of course he will
[21:16] (duffsterr) DStewart, niiiiiiiiice
[21:18] (Kaliuna^) poor little child that he is...
[21:18] (TheTailor) Yes yes, big man, taking nicks.
[21:19] (Kaliuna^) TT - why you know we are suppose to pity the weak -- misguided -- tis the PC thing..
[21:19] (TheTailor) I mean, that's a really hurtful, hard to believe we can live without a certain nickname.
[21:19] (e-Hernick) pity the fool
[21:19] (e-Hernick) that's the first commandment
[21:19] (e-Hernick) of mr. T, I think.
[21:19] (duffsterr) yes, i pity the fool........
[21:19] (Kaliuna^) poor Strake -- neat young man really -- in HS...
[21:20] (Kaliuna^) anyway -- poor little herb - someone needs to tell his mommy to tuck him in and take away his puter rights for a few years
[21:21] (e-Hernick) who is herb
[21:21] * n00b146 is now known as RichWidow
[21:21] (TheTailor) Herb is a little boy that likes to think he's capable of hurting people.
[21:21] (Kaliuna^) and now he's IMing... poor child
[21:21] (jeffmw) test
[21:21] (TheTailor) Kaliuna^, ignore him
[21:21] (thebarry) anyone know of a good website for ringtones?
[21:21] (DStewart) Who's herb?
[21:21] (jeffmw) can u guys see me
[21:21] (thebarry) mp3 or whatever?
[21:22] (DStewart) yeah, jeffmw
[21:22] (Kaliuna^) TT - believe me I am
[21:22] (thebarry) i need white&nerdy
[21:22] (jeffmw) I think we need a regan approch to this hostage deal Iran was mining thoese strates in 87 88 what did he do he hit Irans navy
[21:23] (RichWidow) jeff...i can see you
[21:23] (jeffmw) we need to send a message they cant get away with this
[21:23] (abum) isn't it reagan
[21:23] (jeffmw) sorry long day
[21:24] (RichWidow) see it in the long term....first hostages were taken in 1978
[21:25] (jeffmw) I think what there doing is testing the waters if they can get away with it with british service men and women then maybe thell try us servicemen
[21:25] (jeffmw) maybe set up a naval blockaid prevent gas shippments from comeing in
[21:26] (jeffmw) they cant make gas just the oil
[21:26] (Kaliuna^) rumors are flying all over about a possible strike in April on Iran -- but dunnooooo
[21:26] (jeffmw) Kal well you got to take that with a grain of salt
[21:26] (US-Male) oh, I got a letter form John McCain
[21:26] (RichWidow) Iran = Persians
[21:26] (US-Male) from
[21:27] (jeffmw) let me guess dopnation request
[21:27] (jeffmw) donation
[21:27] (US-Male) should I send it back with "FU" written on there ?
[21:27] (xnomar) like he'd ever see it
[21:27] (jeffmw) na if u belive what he does send the money if u want
[21:27] (US-Male) yeah right
[21:28] (jeffmw) dont go the liberals way
[21:28] (Kaliuna^) US -- no tear it in hundred million shredded pieces
[21:28] (US-Male) I think he's a butthead
[21:28] (jeffmw) then dont send the money
[21:28] (US-Male) actually it's a survey
[21:28] (jeffmw) ah
[21:29] (US-Male) but I don't like him so I won't spend the time
[21:29] (abum) john mccain is selling out
[21:29] (Kaliuna^) IS -- like he has in past as well
[21:29] (jeffmw) so how do i fins a liberal irc chat want to drive them nuts
[21:30] (jeffmw) find
[21:30] (US-Male) we're all liberals here
[21:30] (RichWidow) US....troll is not becoming to you
[21:30] (e-Hernick) All Hail the Liberal, yes, we all vote Democrat here!
[21:30] (US-Male) lol
[21:30] (jeffmw) om a conservitive
[21:31] (e-Hernick) omg a conservative!
[21:31] (jeffmw) im a conservitive
[21:31] (e-Hernick) i've scared!
[21:31] (e-Hernick) the liberal!
[21:31] (e-Hernick) out of you!
[21:31] (US-Male) e-Hernick is a iberal
[21:31] (US-Male) you can bug him easily
[21:31] (e-Hernick) US-Male: yes, I like spain qui a bit
[21:31] (jeffmw) come on come to the "RIGHT" side
[21:31] (jeffmw) get it right lol
[21:31] (US-Male) e-Hernick is missing letters just like me
[21:32] * e-Hernick is now known as e-H-rn-ck
[21:32] * e-H-rn-ck is missing more letters
[21:32] (US-Male) that's kinda cool
[21:32] (Kaliuna^) eeeeeeeek -- lost letters -- look in file 13
[21:32] (jeffmw) liberalisum is a sickness
[21:32] (RichWidow) i dont like quiz games
[21:33] (Kaliuna^) RichWidow hi - we got quiz games??
[21:33] (e-H-rn-ck) Yes, E. Liberasum Pestis, that's one sick sickness.
[21:33] (RichWidow) quiz games are for the eighth grade mind
[21:34] * Kaliuna^ is now known as Kaliuna
[21:34] (jeffmw) the cure a good dose of ann coulter before bed lol
[21:34] (Kaliuna) bingo --
[21:37] (RichWidow) dancing on the head of a pin
[21:37] (Kaliuna) angels
[21:38] (Kaliuna) and where angels fear to tred - welllllll
[21:38] (RichWidow) angels do not dance upon the heads of pins
[21:39] (e-H-rn-ck) angels walk where the sun don't shine
[21:41] (RichWidow) angels...a good subject
[21:41] (e-H-rn-ck) I hear that Liberalisum Pestis can cause a swelling of the groin.
[21:41] (RichWidow) angels stood on the head and the feet of Jesus Christ on the mercy seat
[21:42] (US-Male) Bush at dinner: "I'd like to thank Senator Webb for providing security"
[21:43] (RichWidow) US...think Bush is finally showing his Texas roots?
[21:44] (US-Male) I wish he would
[21:44] (US-Male) when he was bad-ass, his poll #'s were high
[21:44] (RichWidow) Yeah...his bad-assness was good
[21:44] (randym) US-Male: I'm sitting with this blank expression.
[21:45] (US-Male) man, two CHeney shooting jokes already
[21:46] (randym) yea it was a press corp orgasm
[21:48] (OldSchool) http://www.theonion.com/content/news/heroic_secret_service_agent_takes
[21:48] (OldSchool) rofl
[21:48] (Kaliuna) US better they be jokes than ..
[21:48] (RichWidow) The oress....sigh...who knows who they are? they are now a corporation of unknown nationalistic origin....some kind of strange monopoly of money-ed intersests
[21:49] (RichWidow) press
[21:49] (RichWidow) "ther press"...who are they?
[21:49] (RichWidow) who is "the press"?
[21:50] (RichWidow) some people that have constitutional free press rights
[21:50] (RichWidow) people that can blabber...just like on politics
[21:50] (Kaliuna) welllllll in this day and age -- good question... don't think many of the current "press" is comprised of real journalists - just sensationalists
[21:50] (RichWidow) we are the press
[21:51] (RichWidow) we speak our minds...i hope
[21:51] (thebarry) wtf http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-A707-SYNC-Phone-Cingular/dp/B000K2F1N4/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-8303540-9491831?ie=UTF8&s=wireless&qid=1174962912&sr=8-1
[21:51] (US-Male) we are the press...... we are the children
[21:51] (thebarry) they give you 25$ to buy the phone, if you sign up for the 2 year contract
[21:51] (RichWidow) we blabber stuff....intelligence follows
[21:51] (Kaliuna) RichWidow - no the real journalists were the 5W kind - no embellishments and no personal opinions -- just the facts
[21:52] (RichWidow) Kali...what is "5w"?
[21:52] (Kaliuna) RichWidow 5W's -- who, what, where, when and why
[21:52] (Kaliuna) journalism!
[21:52] (RichWidow) okay
[21:53] (Kaliuna) anyway -- midnight happens and I have to download orders to process in the morning and get some sleep
[21:53] (Kaliuna) see you later!!
[21:53] (RichWidow) i would love it....but i feel the editorialism has denatured lots of the truth of the 5w's
[21:54] (CryHavoc) US-male heh
[21:54] (RichWidow) sigh...kali always leaves when things are getting good
[21:54] (CryHavoc) don't let your kids get near Michaerl Jackson..
[21:54] (CryHavoc) hey RW :)
[21:54] (RichWidow) hi Cry...old buddy :}
[21:55] (redfish) cryhavoc or the michael jackson robot
[21:55] (RichWidow) Michael Jackson...that perv....
[21:56] (CryHavoc) redfish...I do not think Robopederast exists yet
[21:56] (RichWidow) i will now attend to my journal
[21:56] (redfish) cryhavoc michael jackson is planning on a giant robot statue of himself in las vegas
[21:56] (CryHavoc) I am gonna find some aspirin...
[21:56] (RichWidow) anyone want to have honorable mention in my journal?
[21:56] (CryHavoc) redfish it would sell
[21:56] (redfish) cryhavoc, http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/28/michael-jackson-may-erect-50-foot-jackobot-in-vegas-desert/
[21:57] (RichWidow) give me a statement that is unforgettable
[21:57] (redfish) cryhavoc i want a bunny that yelps la traviatta arias, like in that skittles commercial
[21:59] (CryHavoc) Jackobot should have a laser beam Panis
[21:59] (CryHavoc) Penis
[21:59] (CryHavoc) I have a stein that pays the theme from Der Dritte Mann :)
[21:59] (CryHavoc) plays
[22:00] (CryHavoc) I pulled another stein out of my Ebay store.....going to sell it
[22:01] (CryHavoc) redfish wants a singling billy bass
[22:01] (CryHavoc) singing
[22:01] (CryHavoc) ok..night peeps
[22:11] (redfish) cryhavoc marinates his meat in white wine
[22:13] (td) what does Twobar marinate his meat in?
[22:15] (apuzilla) anyone in here good with range extenders?
[22:24] (duffsterr) ew
[22:25] (duffsterr) gnite.....
[22:27] (randym) like Cialis?
[22:39] (US_Male) send Iran back to the 8th century!
[22:41] (Heidi^^) Hello everyone.
[22:46] (FreeTrad3) China finds world class oil field. US Doesnt find shit because of our goddamn regulatory laws.. Maybe some leftists can afford $4 a gallon gas, But I cant easily
[22:47] (FreeTrad3) Americas energy policy is idiotic and held hostage by a handful of autocratic abusers of the system.
[22:47] (FreeTrad3) IM sick of it..
[22:47] (FreeTrad3) Shoot the traitors.
[22:47] (xnomar) now you're talking
[22:48] (xnomar) like i've said for awhile voting is not working
[22:48] (FreeTrad3) No kidding..We havent developed energy to speak of since the 8os and that was one major pipeline, and then nothing since the early 70s..
[22:48] (US_Male) lol
[22:48] (FreeTrad3) Nothign substantial.
[22:49] (US_Male) I say we hang 'em
[22:49] (US_Male) cheaper
[22:49] * _skoot is now known as skoot
[22:50] * xnomar brings the rope
[22:50] (FreeTrad3) Well it may some day seriously input our economy..
[22:50] (FreeTrad3) And it still stands that oil is the cheapest fuel there is..
[22:50] (FreeTrad3) For mass consumption
[22:51] (FreeTrad3) and its going to be for decades. we need to keep discovering and drilling for as much as possible and then develop a bunch of nuclear plants but Yellow cakse unranium has gone up about 800%
[22:52] (FreeTrad3) So even uranium is getting expensive, russia is a major supplier.
[22:52] (FreeTrad3) But it would be cheaper if they could sell directly to american companies instead of going through I believe the government right now
[22:53] (FreeTrad3) China is more free in some ways than the west, thats a sad testament to the west.
[22:53] (FreeTrad3) Sure in the west you can fuck anyone you want but you cant drill for oil to try to make the price of gas stay down, or even go down cheaper..
[22:54] (FreeTrad3) Something is twisted and backward about all of that.
[22:54] (FreeTrad3) Oh well. Its good china found a lot of oil, it means more world supply and overall cheaper oil for everyone, its just that we should be doing the same.
[22:54] * _skoot is now known as skoot
[22:54] (FreeTrad3) We could have $2 a gallon gas again.
[22:55] (FreeTrad3) rant rant rant...
[22:55] (FreeTrad3) 3 minutes till my official bed time.
[22:55] * OldSchool hits the cricket poison button
[22:55] (OldSchool) ;)
[22:56] (OldSchool) hehe
[22:56] (FreeTrad3) You know its funny this has mass appeal but noone acts.
[22:57] (FreeTrad3) Take the 100 million in pork from the bill for defense spending and put it on oil exploration then I wouldnt veto it. or nuclear plant construction loans..
[22:57] (FreeTrad3) to get hte ball rolling.
[22:58] (Heidi^^) Hello FreeTrad3 :).
[22:59] (FreeTrad3) Noone seems to understand the connections between their economic fortunes and the forces which effect them.
[22:59] (FreeTrad3) Hello
[22:59] (Heidi^^) How are you?
[22:59] (FreeTrad3) Fine how are you tonight ?
[22:59] (FreeTrad3) Just ranting about americas insane lack of a comprehensive energy program.
[22:59] (Heidi^^) Quite well thankyou.
[23:00] (Heidi^^) So what is the problem with it?
[23:00] (FreeTrad3) We have subsidies for corn growers which makes the cost of eating corn go up and produced enough fuel maybe for a city they side of 15k..
[23:00] (FreeTrad3) The problem is we dont have one.
[23:00] (FreeTrad3) We arent drilling known reserves.
[23:00] * _skoot is now known as skoot
[23:01] (FreeTrad3) We arent building new nuclear plants even though we have pledged to add as many as 20.
[23:01] (Heidi^^) Okay. Have they said a reason for the delay in production?
[23:01] (FreeTrad3) And while we do all this we can work on alternative sources so that possibly in 30 years to 50 we can actually convert to alternative sources.
[23:02] (FreeTrad3) ITs political, its about lawsuits every time a plant trys to break ground, Sierra club or someone sues them.
[23:02] (FreeTrad3) And companies have decided the cost and hassle makes it a risky investment in the USA.
[23:02] (Heidi^^) Because people do not want Nuclear plants in their area?
[23:03] (FreeTrad3) No thats not the reason.
[23:03] (FreeTrad3) In fact the people want them for jobs and stuff.
[23:03] (FreeTrad3) Its outsiders who come in and file lawsuits not locals.
[23:03] (Heidi^^) So what is Sierra Club?
[23:03] (Heidi^^) Oh..?
[23:04] (OldSchool) Also, the thing with the storage facility they were/are going to build
[23:04] (FreeTrad3) I was involved in construction in a city in Oregon when I was a kid when they were going to build 3 nuclear power plants, this city of 1000 or so was so happy about it they built roads and services and infrastructure for workers and then the government put a moratorium on construction of plants because of environmental fanatical extremists.
[23:05] (FreeTrad3) Of course today a lot of environmentalists support nuclear but there is a fight now between environmentalists.
[23:05] * _skoot is now known as skoot
[23:05] (Heidi^^) I see.
[23:05] (FreeTrad3) But the main thing is its made companies gun shy about investing money in america on energy plants.
[23:06] (FreeTrad3) France was 70% of their electricity was nuclear, Russia has a lot of its power which is nuclear.
[23:06] (FreeTrad3) Never had a problem in france.
[23:06] (SweetLeaf) This personal carrier is neat on future weapons
[23:06] (FreeTrad3) America has a lot more land and places to store fuels.
[23:07] (FreeTrad3) America has never had a major release of radioactivity which appreciably effected the health of americans.
[23:08] (FreeTrad3) 3 mile Island a 30 year study found no different than a similar demographic studied, they had the same rates of cancer, birth defects etc, only one didnt have nuclear plants, 3 mile Island had a small accident.
[23:08] (Heidi^^) Hmmm.
[23:08] (FreeTrad3) seemed large at the time but we were pretty ignorant about nuclear power then, we are much smarter now (We = those who work with it like my cousin who is a nuclear physicist)
[23:08] (FreeTrad3) We have plant designs today where a meltdown is literally impossible.
[23:09] (FreeTrad3) plant designs.
[23:09] (FreeTrad3) A nuclear sub refuels every 25 years..
[23:09] (FreeTrad3) thats how much power you can get from nuclear...
[23:09] (SweetLeaf) But other countries are not that safe they = more polution then gore could imagine
[23:09] (FreeTrad3) But its not just nuclear we need the whole basket.
[23:10] (FreeTrad3) Its a pipe dream to think we will be on alternative fuels before at least 2to 3 decades or more.
[23:10] (Heidi^^) I must go now, someone is at the door.
[23:10] (SweetLeaf) corn fuel will cause the price of beef to go up world wide
[23:11] (Heidi^^) Bye!
[23:11] (FreeTrad3) Im all for alternative energy its just that its not realistic its not honest, the technology is not ready its too expensive, a hydrogen car costs a million bucks.
[23:11] (FreeTrad3) Bye.
[23:11] (SweetLeaf) I like the oil shell
[23:11] (Kalomine) sweetleaf: there are certain grasses that are more efficient/effective than corn
[23:11] (SweetLeaf) they should be working on it
[23:11] (SweetLeaf) more
[23:11] (FreeTrad3) And there isnt enough Bio fuel to fuel even 5% of the countries autos.
[23:11] (FreeTrad3) not even 1%
[23:12] (FreeTrad3) but with a huge effort you arent likely to get over 5%
[23:12] (SweetLeaf) We have more oil shell thane we could ever use
[23:12] (FreeTrad3) rant rant..
[23:12] (FreeTrad3) Yes but oil Shale is very expensive.
[23:12] (FreeTrad3) we have enough oil to last 300 years.
[23:12] (FreeTrad3) but the cost of getting it is the issue.
[23:12] (FreeTrad3) we have cheap oil off the coasts we cant drill.
[23:13] (FreeTrad3) http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8O5K72O3.htm
[23:13] (FreeTrad3) China is kicking out put with oil exploration.
[23:13] (SweetLeaf) that is what I am saying they need to spend mor time n money on its developement
[23:13] (FreeTrad3) our butts
[23:14] (SweetLeaf) they will be drilling off cuba soon right into our reserves
[23:14] (FreeTrad3) Sweet, I dont even here politicians debate it, the democratic partys gift to america ? A one man witch hunt to try to get Karl rove whom so far hasnt been indicted for a parking ticket..
[23:14] (FreeTrad3) Why dont they get off politics and do something meaningful..
[23:15] (FreeTrad3) People may not need national health care if you get gas back fown to $2 a gallon.
[23:15] (FreeTrad3) Maybe people can then afford their own health care.
[23:15] (SweetLeaf) FT that aint gonna happen they dont care I really beleave that Bush has to understand who is holding the gavel now heh bitch said that
[23:16] (FreeTrad3) I wouldnt have a problem with a pool law which required all health insurance companies to form a pool and share high risk patients.. That would be a better solution than national health care.
[23:16] (SweetLeaf) they worry about gay rights and shit like that not our security
[23:16] (FreeTrad3) just insure everyone can get health insurance of thier own choice in a free market, without blockage for preexisting conditions.
[23:17] (SweetLeaf) they wont be happy til we all have county type medical coverage
[23:17] (FreeTrad3) Well People shouldnt be in my opinion doing anything affirmative or negative for gays they should and do have the same rights as all individuals and both sides should leave i at that..
[23:17] (FreeTrad3) thats a lifestyle choice which is there own to make and I respect thier opinion.
[23:17] (SweetLeaf) exatly why do they need more laws
[23:17] (FreeTrad3) The problem is prioritizing Americas needs.
[23:17] (FreeTrad3) And their priorities are not right.
[23:18] (SweetLeaf) they military needs money
[23:18] (SweetLeaf) they are fuckig around
[23:18] (FreeTrad3) I dont know why I complain, its a waste of time.
[23:18] (FreeTrad3) Right the military needs money and we need an urgent energy policy which develops energy supplies.
[23:18] (SweetLeaf) I wish the military would refuse to fight for a few days protesting their treatment by congress
[23:19] (SweetLeaf) shit or get off the pot
[23:19] (FreeTrad3) They are willing to give the money but with a pork barrel package for mostly the rich which is huge.
[23:19] (FreeTrad3) and he democrats are the ones who are giving money to the rich..
[23:20] (SweetLeaf) I am not going to pay thousands of dollars to beta test a hybrid car for ford or toyota etc.
[23:20] (FreeTrad3) I dont want the rich getting my tax dollars.
[23:20] (FreeTrad3) I dont care of they paid in more.. Its pork..
[23:20] (FreeTrad3) Abusive Domain or User
[23:20] (FreeTrad3) If the problem is they want them to have more money then lower their taxes, dont give them subsidies.
[23:20] (SweetLeaf) all global warming is IS another way for liberals to get their hands into our pockets
[23:21] (SweetLeaf) I sure wish British would get tough if the soldiers are not released soon
[23:21] (SweetLeaf) iran needs to be taught a lesson
[23:21] (SweetLeaf) like lose their ports
[23:21] (SweetLeaf) and navy
[23:22] (FreeTrad3) Well Global warming is a very politicized science obviously which means only time will reveal if there is any truth to it, and then we may never know if its a natural climate change pattern or if man had some small influence on it.
[23:22] (SweetLeaf) I will never know
[23:22] (FreeTrad3) Yeah me too. I like Blairs foreign policy attitude.
[23:23] (SweetLeaf) I just hope they dont let it turn into a hostage situation
[23:23] (SweetLeaf) act fast
[23:23] (FreeTrad3) it already is
[23:23] (SweetLeaf) dont take weeks months
[23:23] (FreeTrad3) but you mean a long drawn out situation
[23:23] (SweetLeaf) they they know they can play games
[23:23] (FreeTrad3) yeah I know what you mean.
[23:23] (xnomar) the response is very weak so far
[23:24] (SweetLeaf) It pisses me off their mother ship was ordered to not interfere I hear
[23:24] (FreeTrad3) Well I can tell some Iranian leaders are terrified of what their own government is doing and some are just stupid.
[23:25] (SweetLeaf) I mean if they want a fight why dont the world acomadate them
[23:25] (FreeTrad3) I heard one guy on the news who was Iranian who you could tell by his body language and speech patterns that he was nervous with his countries policy, you could tell this guy didnt want war with Britain and the USA.
[23:25] (SweetLeaf) if they dont sell oil they go broke
[23:25] (SweetLeaf) oil is all they have
[23:25] (SweetLeaf) they have nothing else worth a shit
[23:26] (FreeTrad3) They are already hurting economically, and the people arent happy but I cant see them overthrowing this government.. even if they want to.
[23:27] (SweetLeaf) I dont understand why the west is so afraid we can hurt them worst then they can hurt us just by not letting them sell oil
[23:29] (FreeTrad3) Democrats need to go in 2008 they are doing nothing for this country other than negative things, And the gop needs to work on affirmative legislation and worry less about immigration and big brother issues inside america. Yeah toughen the border, fine, but stop raiding meat packing plans and other employers of large numbers of people for hiring them.. We need a posse comitatis act which not only applies to the military but all federal police.. Stop them at
[23:30] (FreeTrad3) Stop worrying about arabs managing a port when they are the best managers in the world (Management company) and start worrying about helping america..
[23:30] (SweetLeaf) I think they are hanging themselves with their wild goose chase and hearings and votes that mean nothing if one soldier dies because of no funding for something or anther they are fucked they are playing a very dangerous game with the lives of our men n women
[23:31] (FreeTrad3) When Israel says Dubai Ports is an ok company you got to be joking if americans are afriad of them it can only be xenophobia.
[23:31] (FreeTrad3) yeah I agree on the military.
[23:32] (SweetLeaf) They are looking like real assholes adding all this shit to the bill
[23:32] (FreeTrad3) Just give the military the funding then deal with the other issues in a seperate debate .. What the dems did is they didnt have anywhere near the votes to pass this bill so they promised congressmen of all these states they would give them huge pork barrel projects to send home with them if they would change their vote.
[23:33] (SweetLeaf) they bribed other dims with pork
[23:33] (SweetLeaf) with out the bribes no bill
[23:33] (FreeTrad3) So you have business getting free monies because their congressman brought home pork at the cost of American military lives, I love the guy who went on tv and called it blood money, was that mccain or someone else ?
[23:33] (FreeTrad3) They called the pork in the bill blood money.
[23:33] (_rwx) Abusive Domain or User
[23:33] * SonOfSpam is back... now with clean guns
[23:33] (FreeTrad3) blood of the US troops for pork
[23:33] (FreeTrad3) And republicans.
[23:33] (SweetLeaf) and bush made a joke at a press conf
[23:33] (Kalomine) it's times like this I go against my natural dislike of the line item veto
[23:34] (SweetLeaf) a good one
[23:34] (FreeTrad3) I am pissed as hell at the republicans who were bought off too..
[23:34] (FreeTrad3) A lot less of them but still enough to piss you off.
[23:34] (SweetLeaf) they aint repups FT
[23:34] (SweetLeaf) just in the cloths
[23:34] (FreeTrad3) Sweet 10 republicans at least in the house voted with them.
[23:35] (SweetLeaf) They are all worried about re election not the country
[23:35] (FreeTrad3) I forget the exact count. the senate was 5149
[23:35] (FreeTrad3) or 50 49
[23:35] (SweetLeaf) I feel helpless
[23:35] (SweetLeaf) I feel like the congress and senate are like rome or something
[23:35] (Eeyore) no one can do anything for the country if they arent elected first
[23:35] (FreeTrad3) or 49 48, (I aplogize) but I think 2 senators are out right now arent they ?
[23:35] (SweetLeaf) and we just dont really matter
[23:36] (SweetLeaf) just pawns
[23:36] (Eeyore) its one of the down sides of democracy
[23:36] (FreeTrad3) And if they lost by one, that would make it oh wait its one senator, so it was 50-49
[23:36] (FreeTrad3) I think.
[23:36] (SweetLeaf) and the media manipulates
[23:36] (SweetLeaf) all of them
[23:37] (SweetLeaf) god I am getting so sick of all of them
[23:37] (FreeTrad3) Eeyore, yeah but as the old saying goes, they only thing worse than democracy is all the other forms of government.
[23:37] (Eeyore) the most important thing now, is to send a loud shock msg. to Iran
[23:37] (Eeyore) FreeTrad3 yes Churchill. one of my heroes
[23:37] (FreeTrad3) Well we should work on the middle easy and we should work on domesic issues.
[23:37] (Eeyore) paraphrased albeit
[23:37] (FreeTrad3) Shit, 11:39
[23:37] (SweetLeaf) yes a combined airstrike by everyone but the usa so they cant blame us
[23:37] (FreeTrad3) I have to get up very early tommorrow.. Goonight guys
[23:38] (Eeyore) The USA is the most principled nation on earth. They must remain so no matter what the loud mouths say
[23:38] (Eeyore) night man
[23:38] (Eeyore) :*)
[23:39] (SweetLeaf) I dunno it just seems to get worse year by year
[23:39] (SweetLeaf) Why do we have so many molesters today
[23:39] (SweetLeaf) I dont remember them in the 50's
[23:39] (SweetLeaf) 80's
[23:39] (Eeyore) SweetLeaf my hobby is converting whacos back to conservativism. it usually takes me about 5 minutes if the person is at all honest with themselves.
[23:39] (SweetLeaf) 60's
[23:39] (SweetLeaf) i ment
[23:39] (Eeyore) and now, is the best time of all to find whackos
[23:40] (Eeyore) molesters?
[23:40] (Eeyore) I didnt realize that was the subject
[23:40] (SweetLeaf) thats just it they are not honest
[23:40] (Eeyore) the # of them Im sure has always been the same but no one talked about it till recently
[23:41] (SweetLeaf) I am saying we are in this mess because this country does not still have the core values
[23:41] (SweetLeaf) it once had
[23:41] (Eeyore) im not so sure. i think the values are the same but people have been tricked into thinking that those values are best served by a wierdo agenda
[23:41] (Eeyore) may I explain?
[23:41] (SweetLeaf) I am not religious but children need that structure growing up
[23:41] (Eeyore) maybe yes
[23:42] (Eeyore) SweetLeaf have you ever read a book called, 'The Closing of the AMerican Mind' _bllom
[23:42] (SweetLeaf) We cant go to war anymore
[23:42] (Eeyore) Bloom
[23:42] (SweetLeaf) nope
[23:43] (Eeyore) you have to go to war your the only nation that can
[23:43] (Eeyore) read it SweetLeaf
[23:43] (Eeyore) it will help a lot
[23:43] (SweetLeaf) We are not allowed to win
[23:43] (Eeyore) SweetLeaf think of it this way...
[23:43] (SweetLeaf) no point in war unless u can have it done in 6 weeks
[23:43] (SweetLeaf) or less
[23:43] (Eeyore) you are the kind and generous older brother that everyohne resents. and you have to be mature enough to take that resentment and stilldo the right things
[23:44] (SweetLeaf) american ppl have short attn spans
[23:44] (Eeyore) um the point in war is always the same. Victory no matter what the cost. one shoul d NOT go into a war without that attitude and being in, one doesnt leave till one wins
[23:44] (SweetLeaf) They have already forgot the twin towers
[23:44] (Eeyore) read that book SweetLeaf I think it will help
[23:44] (SweetLeaf) we gotta get zapped again
[23:44] (Eeyore) SweetLeaf not I.
[23:45] (Eeyore) and Im Canadian./
[23:45] (Eeyore) :*)
[23:45] (SweetLeaf) that dont make you safe
[23:45] (Eeyore) but would fight for the US in a heartbeat
[23:45] (SweetLeaf) they up there too
[23:45] (Eeyore) oh I know that wasnt my point
[23:45] (SweetLeaf) and they dont like you anymore than me
[23:45] (Eeyore) Im trying to say, I have not forgotten the twin towers. I am more hurt than many americans I know
[23:45] (Eeyore) oh i know haha believe me I have [plenty of death threats on me by Jihadis
[23:46] (SweetLeaf) See that is waht the world dont see yet
[23:46] (SweetLeaf) france germany russia china the muslims dont like any of us
[23:46] (SweetLeaf) we are all infedel's
[23:46] (SweetLeaf) convert or die
[23:46] (Eeyore) actually cnvert really isnt an option
[23:46] (SweetLeaf) The pope was right
[23:46] (Eeyore) its sort of bogus
[23:47] (Eeyore) SweetLeaf have you seen Dr. Wafa Sultan speak?
[23:47] (SweetLeaf) ya look at darfur they killing black muslims cause they dont like um
[23:47] (Eeyore) http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv%20&ak=null
[23:47] (Eeyore) in Darfur they are mostly killing Christian blacks
[23:48] (Eeyore) China supports the Janjaweed for oil
[23:48] (SweetLeaf) I want to know what george clooney wants the usa to do about it we got our own problems
[23:49] (Eeyore) why?
[23:49] (SweetLeaf) what are we supposed to do about darfur
[23:49] (Eeyore) who fucking cares what he thinks or says.
[23:49] (SweetLeaf) I dont
[23:49] (Eeyore) oh thats easy nothing.
[23:49] (SweetLeaf) but want to know what he thinks we could do
[23:49] (SweetLeaf) if we armed them would they fight
[23:49] (Eeyore) SweetLeaf Im gonna answer that with a paragraph from Mark Steyn's excellent book, America Alone....
[23:50] (SweetLeaf) I think we should pull the plug on Iraq but I support bush and will give his this chance
[23:50] (Eeyore) "I was driving behind a car in NH and he had a bumper sticker saying 'free Tibet' and I imagined I was Rumsfeld and I thought, what a great Idea and called up the 82nd and started a campaighn to free Tibet right away...
[23:50] (Eeyore) that guy would go righth ome and change that sticker to one that says "War is not the answer"
[23:51] (Eeyore) cause he doesnt want to free tibet
[23:51] (Eeyore) he wants to advertise his moral superiority
[23:51] (SweetLeaf) heh
[23:51] (Eeyore) does that answer your question?
[23:51] (SweetLeaf) I think we should pull the plug on iraq let the world find out it aint just a USA problem
[23:52] (Eeyore) SweetLeaf I think you are as wrong as you can be on that on
[23:52] (Eeyore) e
[23:52] (Eeyore) not that I dont understand the sentiment
[23:52] (Eeyore) I do
[23:52] (_HellMngr) south park was over the top
[23:52] (Eeyore) anyway its 3:00 AM here and I should try take #2 on sleep
[23:52] (SweetLeaf) I dont know whay just because they are actors I would listen to anything they have to say
[23:52] (SweetLeaf) Ya I should too but cant
[23:58] (Swigert) hey
[23:59] * _skoot is now known as skoot
[23:59] (Swigert) what, no one here???
[23:59] (Thrasher`) heh