[00:00] (Swigert) I'm printing off 29 pages
[00:01] (Swigert) been writing all day - going to be writing all day tomorrow
[00:03] (Thrasher`) I have some report to do for school, havent done it yet...which isnt good
[00:03] (Swigert) get cracking
[00:03] (Swigert) what kind of report?
[00:04] (Thrasher`) topic is RFID
[00:04] (Swigert) not familiar
[00:10] (OldSchool) in the conspiracy theory sense? hehe
[00:15] (skoot) MC Rove?
[00:18] (_HellMngr) do you ever wonder where the rhetoric ends and the truth begins?
[00:28] (SonOfSpam) "Truth" and bullshit sell for the same price around here.
[00:29] (_HellMngr) really?
[00:29] (_HellMngr) I always thought bullshit fetched a better offer
[00:29] (SonOfSpam) Come in the same can, same look, same smell... nobody can tell the difference. So they buy 'em just the same.
[00:30] * syoung333 is now known as asd32dy32
[00:32] * SonOfSpam spears redfish
[00:37] (WotG) morning
[00:37] (SonOfSpam) ACK!
[01:04] (TWThomas) *sings* Mike & The Mechanics "A Call to Arms"
[01:05] (TWThomas) Iran must be next God Damn it
[01:06] (WotG) probably within the next couple weeks
[01:07] (WotG) they have been sending waves of planes at Iran and then turning them back just before they hit iranian airspace
[01:08] (WotG) will be interesting to see what China and Russia do when the US bombs the living crap out of Iran
[01:08] (TWThomas) yes
[01:24] (TWThomas) http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1258163,00.html?f=dta
[01:26] (_HellMngr) let's hope it does not come to that
[01:26] (_HellMngr) i still have hope for iran to become a beacon of light in the middle east
[01:28] (_HellMngr) we need to draft
[01:30] (WotG) well, you can't do that with a pussy war
[01:33] (_HellMngr) war with iran will not be a 'pussy' event
[01:33] (_HellMngr) it will be fucking brutal and bloody on a scale we've not seen for a while
[01:33] (dog3) ho hum
[01:33] (dog3) iran? what did they do now
[01:34] (_HellMngr) 'now'?
[01:34] (_HellMngr) been in a cave?
[01:34] (_HellMngr) apart from their incredibly hostile rhetoric?
[01:34] (dog3) i dunno, there's a lot of nonsense in the newspapers
[01:34] (_HellMngr) or supplying iraq with arms
[01:34] (_HellMngr) or taking 15 british hostages
[01:34] (dog3) iraq? i thought iraq was a happy democracy
[01:34] * dog3 laffs
[01:34] (_HellMngr) if we can ever stop the killing.
[01:35] (dog3) that's easy
[01:35] (dog3) just kill every1
[01:35] (_HellMngr) not a very good solution
[01:35] (dog3) it has the side benefit of cutting global warming, too
[01:36] (dog3) an advantage for every crackpot!
[01:36] (_HellMngr) heh
[01:36] (dog3) frankly i think the middle east is a sideshow compared to the global warming thing. if that gets any traction, we're dead
[01:37] (TWThomas) fuck Iran becoming a beacon of light and fuck a draft just bomb Iran
[01:37] (_HellMngr) way to not look to the long term
[01:37] (WotG) I welcome global warming..it's an improvement
[01:37] (WotG) ;)
[01:37] (dog3) well global warming itself is nice
[01:37] (TWThomas) We need to Bomb Iran now and this J G Wentworth
[01:37] (dog3) it's the damn environazis
[01:37] (_HellMngr) CASH NOW
[01:37] (TWThomas) We need to Bomb Iran now and this is J G Wentworth
[01:37] (dog3) haha
[01:37] (dog3) j g wentworth
[01:37] (WotG) Mars is warming too.., I wouldn't worry about it
[01:37] (_HellMngr) the leftist enviroloons are bad news
[01:38] (_HellMngr) If we get into it with iran, we need to make sure it could not have been reasonably avoided
[01:38] (_HellMngr) i don't mean the UK apologizing
[01:38] (_HellMngr) i mean, real diplomacy
[01:38] (_HellMngr) Iran is acting very unreasonable
[01:38] (dog3) focusing too much on places like iran is forgetting that the government that is most likely to do one harm is one's own. and if it winds up in the hands of environazis... well, there you go
[01:39] (_HellMngr) yeah
[01:39] (WotG) diplomacy with the middle east is like negotiating with a pedophile' to be a kinder
[01:39] (dog3) haha
[01:39] (WotG) kindergarten teacher
[01:39] (dog3) pedophiles are very kind!
[01:39] (dog3) aren't they?
[01:39] (_HellMngr) new bikes for everybody!
[01:39] (_HellMngr) do you want a barbie?
[01:39] (WotG) uuuh no
[01:40] (WotG) sure you can negoitate...but you know in the end they will just screw everyone
[01:41] (_HellMngr) i'd rather get screwed by a free republic than an islamic caliph
[01:41] (dog3) hmm
[01:42] (dog3) i'm not so sure
[01:42] (dog3) democracy is much more powerful a form of government than pretty much any one ever tried
[01:42] (dog3) if it goes wrong, it goes Really Wrong
[01:43] (dog3) which is why it was avoided between 500 B.C. and 1800 A.D., or so
[01:45] (dog3) in cali4nia, 40, 60, 75, and 100-watt lightbulbs will be banned from january 1
[01:45] (dog3) also reflector bulbs over 65 watts will be banned
[01:46] (_HellMngr) light bulbs need to go, but market forces need to make them go.
[01:46] (dog3) haha
[01:47] (dog3) and why do they need to go??
[01:47] (dog3) they're really not That Bad
[01:48] (_HellMngr) they are wasteful
[01:48] (_HellMngr) they put off most of their energy as heat
[01:48] (_HellMngr) they are fine for heating things
[01:48] (_HellMngr) but not very good for lighting
[01:48] (_HellMngr) LED, HID, and fluorescent lighting are all vastly superior.
[01:49] (dog3) there are plenty of applications where standard bulbs are better
[01:49] (_HellMngr) such as?
[01:49] (dog3) full spectrum, lamps that have very low duty cycles, lamps that need to be on just a few seconds at a time, lamps that are used in hostile environments (especially temperature-wise) are a few
[01:50] (dog3) from an esthetic point of view, it is actually very difficult to make a good full-spectrum source that's not incandescent
[01:51] (dog3) light bulbs have, accordingly, gone from being a necessity to a luxury
[01:51] (_HellMngr) your average house lightbulb is not a full spectrum source.
[01:51] (dog3) but is that a reason to get rid of them? luxury is bad?
[01:51] (dog3) well all you need is a bit of a blue coating
[01:51] (dog3) even the el cheapos are continuous spectrum bulbs
[01:51] (dog3) they don't make colors do weird things
[01:52] (dog3) my car for instance looks weird under fluorescent lighting. it's "white" but the different panels are different paints, apparently. looks fine under incandescent or sunlight
[01:52] (_HellMngr) fluorescent is one of the weirder lights.
[01:52] (_HellMngr) It has a very odd spectral distribution
[01:53] (_HellMngr) terrible for grow lights too.
[01:53] (_HellMngr) I personally think LED light sources are more ideal for houses.
[01:54] (_HellMngr) you can essentially tune the spectral output by using different colored leds in the 'bulb'.
[01:54] (_HellMngr) too damn expensive at present though
[01:54] (_HellMngr) fluorescent is really the only affordable lighting system besides incandescent right now
[01:54] (bastille) can we switch topics
[01:55] (_HellMngr) what would you like to talk about?
[01:55] (dog3) well even LEDs have somewhat odd spectral distributions. the white ones are very rich in blue
[01:55] (bastille) sports
[01:56] (_HellMngr) I think i'd rather continue to talk about lighting
[01:57] (dog3) hehe
[01:57] (_HellMngr) i dunno
[01:57] (_HellMngr) i think you have to choose the right light source for the job
[01:57] (_HellMngr) it's not like there is just one kind of incandescent light
[01:57] (dog3) yes certainly
[01:57] (_HellMngr) or one kind of fluorescent light
[01:57] (_HellMngr) I like xenon lights over halogens for flashlights and headlights
[01:58] (_HellMngr) LED's in flashlights as well due to the increased battery life.
[01:58] (_HellMngr) but a million CP spotlight, well...
[01:58] (_HellMngr) if you can't cook with it....
[01:59] (dog3) well lightbulbs are just the first step
[01:59] (dog3) if the environazis continue
[01:59] (dog3) in england they are talking about "greener skies" now
[01:59] (dog3) everyone wants greener skies!
[02:00] (_HellMngr) i'd rather they stay blue
[02:00] (dog3) greener taxes!
[02:00] (dog3) greener planes and cars
[02:00] (dog3) haha
[02:00] (dog3) greener lighting technology
[02:00] (dog3) and they insult each other by calling each other's programs "mere greenwash"
[02:00] (_HellMngr) heh
[02:00] (_HellMngr) i'm all for being green
[02:00] (_HellMngr) dumping shit in lakes
[02:00] (_HellMngr) is a bad idea
[02:01] (_HellMngr) pumping out nasty shit into the atmosphere is a bad idea.
[02:01] (_HellMngr) however, people are quick to propose useless solutions
[02:01] (_HellMngr) obviously we're not going to ban tires.
[02:01] (_HellMngr) and carbon offset trading is the stupidest shit imaginable.
[02:02] (_HellMngr) We need more efficent systems to reclaim our waste.
[02:02] (_HellMngr) and turn it into productivity
[02:03] (dog3) isn't that already happening?
[02:03] (_HellMngr) sort of
[02:03] (_HellMngr) but not very quickly
[02:03] (_HellMngr) we'll get there eventually
[02:03] (dog3) hmm?
[02:03] (_HellMngr) turning shit into shinola is the great american dream. :)
[02:03] (dog3) what waste is obviously inefficiently dumped?
[02:04] (_HellMngr) we've slowed it down tremendously here in the US
[02:04] (_HellMngr) but in other countries it's still standard procedure.
[02:04] (_HellMngr) the less developed asian and african countries
[02:04] (_HellMngr) we still dump some shit
[02:04] (dog3) so what?
[02:04] (dog3) it's not like there's not any space
[02:05] (_HellMngr) because I like my skies blue, not brown?
[02:05] (dog3) i throw away all my newspapers
[02:05] (dog3) recycling is nonsense
[02:05] (dog3) haha
[02:05] (_HellMngr) recycling is nonsense.
[02:05] (dog3) how does that make the skies brown?
[02:05] (_HellMngr) on the level we currently operate.
[02:05] (_HellMngr) right now it costs more to recycle goods
[02:05] (_HellMngr) with some exceptions
[02:05] (_HellMngr) mostly metal
[02:06] (_HellMngr) The landfills of today are the oil fields of tomorrow!
[02:06] (dog3) well tons of things are recycled like that of course
[02:06] (dog3) but landfills are really tiny
[02:06] (bastille) TOTAL FREE MARKET CAPITALISM IS THE ONLY MORAL SYSTEM
[02:07] (_HellMngr) One thing that is retarded is that the EPA won't let landfills sel their methane
[02:07] (_HellMngr) so they just burn it off
[02:07] (dog3) as is obvious to anyone who's actually thought about it... it's not like mankind creates garbage out of nothing. ex nihilo nihil fit!
[02:07] (_HellMngr) fucking run a power plant
[02:07] (_HellMngr) if you're just going to burn it
[02:08] (_HellMngr) refineries too
[02:08] (_HellMngr) use that gas
[02:08] (_HellMngr) don't just burn it for no purpose.
[02:09] (WotG) Mars and china are going to do a joint space program together to explore mars in 2009
[02:09] (dog3) mars?
[02:09] (_HellMngr) mars is a long haul by conventional means
[02:09] (_HellMngr) mars is partnered with china?
[02:09] (_HellMngr) oh noes all is lost
[02:09] (dog3) why do the martians need the chinese?
[02:10] (WotG) Russian and China I meant
[02:10] (WotG) sorry
[02:10] (WotG) coffee hasn't kicked in yet
[02:10] (WotG) ;)
[02:11] (dog3) why do they want to go to mars?
[02:11] (dog3) why does anyone want to go to mars?
[02:11] (dog3) sounds ridiculous
[02:11] (_HellMngr) because we can
[02:12] (dog3) who can? even bill can't afford to do that
[02:13] (WotG) http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21468672-30417,00.html Funny that space.com doesn't report much space news outside of the US
[02:14] (WotG) The trip to the Red Planet could be a case of Chinese money mixing with Russian science, according to observers
[02:14] (WotG) heh
[02:14] (dog3) chinese money
[02:14] (dog3) haha
[02:14] (dog3) american money printed in washington
[02:14] (dog3) it'll be worthless by then
[02:15] (dog3) my prediction is that (unfortunately for them) the chinese are going to go back to starving within the next 20 years
[02:15] (WotG) They are better off doing a trip to Mars than NASA, less regulations, Political BS, Insurance problems
[02:15] (dog3) why would ANYONE want to go to mars?
[02:15] (_HellMngr) i'd go to mars if i could
[02:15] (dog3) i can't imagine many things that are more ridiculously wasteful
[02:16] (dog3) well i wouldn't stop you from it
[02:16] (_HellMngr) You don't view it as valid science?
[02:16] (dog3) mars has already been visited by what, ten space probes?
[02:16] (WotG) There will be a big push to explore space more after the Planet finder telescope goes up in 2011
[02:16] (_HellMngr) I think space exploration is tremendously important.
[02:16] (_HellMngr) Unless humanity plans on 'slowing' its growth
[02:16] (dog3) i don't have (much) against space probes
[02:16] (dog3) but crap like the international space station
[02:16] (dog3) flying trashcans
[02:17] (dog3) government waste Write Large
[02:17] (dog3) if richard branson wants to do it, sure go ahead
[02:17] (dog3) but with my tax dollars?? please!
[02:17] (_HellMngr) You don't just jump from 'stuck on the ground' to 'interstellar travel'
[02:17] (_HellMngr) yeah
[02:17] (_HellMngr) and i odn't want to give katrina refugees gucci bags with my tax dollars
[02:17] (_HellMngr) but they did anyway
[02:17] (dog3) fine, if someone wants to do it for himself or sees some way of making money off it, go ahead
[02:17] (WotG) You will see a perfectly clear photo of an Earthlike planet with water, clouds and green lands in another solar system on the cover of National Geogrphic before 2020
[02:17] (_HellMngr) i'd rather shoot dollar bills into orbit than give them to dirt bags.
[02:18] (dog3) i don't see how giving gucci bags to katrinas can possibly justify a wasteful space program
[02:18] (WotG) Space program is good for the US, creates new technologies we can sell to other countries
[02:18] (dog3) what technologies? pens that write upside down?
[02:18] (WotG) Creating great technology and selling it is what the US is good at...it should focus on that more
[02:19] (dog3) the space program has produced very, very little compared to what it has cost
[02:20] (_HellMngr) True, but it's still important to continue.
[02:20] (dog3) all the truly amazing advances in aerospace have come from figuring out how to shuttle people cheaper around the world on their holidays
[02:20] (dog3) the dreamliner will get, what, 135 mpg? per seat
[02:20] (dog3) something like that
[02:20] (WotG) Well, the problem is, people expect NASA to be space tourism and create space stations to create all the neat chmicals, drugs and products we discovered during 20 years of shuttle missions...but it was never set up to do that
[02:20] (_HellMngr) i am very pleased with the entry of private businesses to space flight
[02:20] (dog3) why can't branson do that, if it's so important?
[02:20] (dog3) why do you need to dump billions of tax dollars into it every year
[02:21] (dog3) surely a smart guy like that can figure out how to make some bux off it
[02:21] (_HellMngr) ALl that aerospace shit
[02:21] (WotG) Well, there is not a single investor that can afford a US commercial space program that is hindered by Insurance and political issues
[02:21] (_HellMngr) is descended from NASA
[02:21] (_HellMngr) GPS is descended from NASA
[02:21] (_HellMngr) American Military Supremecy is partly in thanks to NASA.
[02:21] (DarthBurg) anybody awake?
[02:22] (dog3) are you saying airliners wouldn't exist without nasa? i highly doubt that
[02:22] (WotG) getting to space and getting to orbit are 2 completely different things
[02:22] * DarthBurg can't sleep
[02:22] (WotG) Spaceshipone only had to go 2000 MPH
[02:22] (_HellMngr) They would'nt have progressed as rapidly as they have
[02:22] (dog3) US military supremacy is due to capitalism
[02:22] (dog3) the Cadillac tank and the IBM machine gun
[02:22] (WotG) to get to orbit, you need to go faster than 17,500 MPH to escape earths gravity
[02:22] (DarthBurg) wind tunnel testing was developed for NASA...
[02:22] (WotG) that will NEVER be cheap
[02:23] (CGI659) Patton speech: http://tinyurl.com/2muby2
[02:23] (_HellMngr) it's coming
[02:23] (dog3) wind tunnel testing was developed by the wright brothers when everyone thought flying by humans was crackpot stuff
[02:23] (DarthBurg) I did not say they invented it.
[02:23] (dog3) why would a single investor have to cover it?
[02:23] (dog3) why can't branson, gates, and buffett get together?
[02:23] (DarthBurg) Jet Propusion Labratory. nuff said.
[02:23] (dog3) if it really is that important
[02:23] (dog3) heh
[02:23] (dog3) i know tons of ppl working at JPL
[02:23] (dog3) dimwits
[02:24] (WotG) heh...good luck getting big heads to work together on something like that
[02:24] (dog3) well
[02:24] (DarthBurg) its the running gag
[02:24] (dog3) not just dimwits
[02:24] (dog3) JPL is like a retirement home
[02:24] (WotG) hard enough to get all these different little private aerospace companies not to bicker
[02:24] (dog3) people pulling in huge salaries to do nothing but sit in meetings
[02:24] (DarthBurg) Slide Rule heaven
[02:24] (dog3) boeing isn't a "little" company by anyone's standards
[02:25] (dog3) you're saying that if there's too much cash in something, capitalism doesn't work? but you need socialism?
[02:25] (WotG) not talking about Boeing
[02:25] (DarthBurg) Airbus is Boeing's best salesman.
[02:25] (DarthBurg) Hello UPS
[02:25] (Dubber) not every risky undertaking involves shooting a hunk of metal into space, you know
[02:25] (dog3) airbus is a joke---exactly the sort of train wreck you can expect if you have the government poking their fingers into the business
[02:26] (DarthBurg) roger
[02:26] (DarthBurg) I am going to fuck a big company today :D
[02:26] (DarthBurg) think they can Steal MY locations.
[02:26] (WotG) Most of the big contractors have a scam going....the millions on a contract...produce a few graphics and build a prototype..then the project is cancelled before they have to build anything real, IE X-33 Shuttle, CRV
[02:26] (DarthBurg) snicker
[02:26] (DarthBurg) its gonna cost em
[02:26] (dog3) yeah you think they could get away with that if they had private customers?
[02:26] (DarthBurg) *IF* the site owner will listen.
[02:26] (dog3) no, duh, that's because they have "cost plus" contracts
[02:27] (Dubber) dog3: yes, companies fail all the time
[02:27] (dog3) it doesn't matter if it Really Works. as long as they have more or less carried out the contract they get paid plus given a negotiated profit
[02:27] (Dubber) it's not necessarily a "scam", it's just failure
[02:27] (dog3) i didn't say anything about a scam
[02:27] (dog3) but most government contracts are semi-scams
[02:28] (dog3) ahhh i think it is bedtime
[02:28] (dog3) l8r
[02:28] (dog3) wuff, wuff
[02:31] (DarthBurg) well
[02:31] (DarthBurg) I like contract scams
[02:31] (DarthBurg) those are my fave
[02:31] (DarthBurg) auto renewals.
[02:31] (DarthBurg) sweetness and light.
[02:32] * _skoot is now known as skoot
[02:36] (_HellMngr) I suspect military aerospace development is far beyond everything we see in the JSF or NASA
[02:36] (_HellMngr) our current military equipment only needs to stay one step ahead of our opposition
[02:39] (TWThomas) AirBus is a fucking joke
[02:39] * _skoot is now known as skoot
[02:42] (TWThomas) first of all the bigger the plane bigger the lost if in a crash
[02:43] (DarthBurg) true
[02:43] (DarthBurg) i had not thought of that
[02:43] (DarthBurg) Nice big "Fatter" Terrorist Target.
[02:43] (DarthBurg) ooooo
[02:43] (DarthBurg) Europe is building the biggest Islamobomb.
[02:48] (panini) ?
[02:48] (DarthBurg) mornin panini
[02:48] (panini) oh, i see... haha
[02:48] (DarthBurg) WASHINGTON -- Senator Edward M. Kennedy yesterday accused President Bush of using the Department of Justice to further his administration's "right-wing ideology," saying that veteran prosecutors were replaced by political operatives in key states to ensure that "reliable partisans" are in place in time for the 2008 presidential election.
[02:49] (DarthBurg) the Bush admin has a right wing ideology?
[02:49] (DarthBurg) where?
[02:49] (DarthBurg) Tax cuts?
[02:49] (panini) oh crap... I haven't gone to bed yet and i have to get up in 4 hours!
[02:49] (DarthBurg) I can not sleep.
[02:50] (DarthBurg) Captain Oldsmobile
[03:04] (_HellMngr) ted kennedy can choke on a dick
[03:05] (skoot) ?
[03:11] (Dubber) ?
[03:11] (Dubber) where was ted when all 93 were given the boot
[03:12] (TWThomas) Yes Ted Kennedy can cut off his own dick and shove it down his throat
[03:17] (skoot) very pleasant wingnut chat thismorning i can see
[03:18] (TWThomas) then if it doesn't get digested then it must clog him up and make him die
[03:28] (gopp) wtf do you skeep saying wingnut
[03:29] (gopp) do all
[03:29] (gopp) females in iran have to wear buraq
[03:29] (gopp) or head scarf
[03:33] (rond) On March 26, Microsoft released its internal sales figures for the first month of Windows Vista. Microsoft said it has sold in excess of 20 million Vista licenses in the first month of latest Windows client's general availability. That figure includes Vista licenses preloaded on new PCs, upgrades, copies sold through the Vista Express Upgrade program and full packaged prdouct sold at retail between
[03:33] (DarthBurg) i still can not sleep
[03:33] (rond) January 30 and February 28. According to Microsoft, that is more than double the initial sales pace for Windows XP.
[03:34] (_3Josephs) a large % of those were the free upgrades
[03:34] (DarthBurg) I am waiting for the sequal
[03:34] (DarthBurg) sequel
[03:34] (_3Josephs) M$ also did not report any sales figures for Office '07, which was released at the same time
[03:38] (DarthBurg) i still can not sleep
[03:39] (DarthBurg) nor do I have Vista, or Office 07.
[03:39] (DarthBurg) office... 97 yeah
[03:39] (gopp) nor do I
[03:39] (gopp) I have 03 and open office
[03:39] (gopp) and ubunt
[03:39] (gopp) u
[03:40] (gopp) hey castro is up for election
[03:40] (gopp) but it seems he the only votting
[03:40] (gopp) err
[03:40] (gopp) running
[03:41] (gopp) HAVANA (Reuters) - Cuba's Fidel Castro published his first editorial since his July surgery on Thursday, signing his name to a scathing article on U.S. biofuel plans for Thursday's edition of the Communist Party newspaper Granma.
[03:41] (gopp) It was the latest indication that Castro has no plans to retire from the limelight, after comments by various government officials recently that he is recovering well enough to soon take a more active role in government.
[03:49] * sHice| is now known as sHice
[03:54] (DarthBurg) you want pleasant? go read a tony snowe thread on the huffington report. Donkeys are scum.
[04:01] (gopp) heritage.org
[04:02] (gopp) liberal hate it we lov eit
[04:03] (gopp) why don't liberal support free enterprise
[04:03] (gopp) would not that = freedom
[04:03] (gopp) if liberal support freedom would they not support free enterprise
[04:04] (gopp) the project for a new american cenutry
[04:05] (rightooo) hi all
[04:06] (gopp) if liberal support freedom would they not support free enterprise
[04:06] (gopp) why do liberal not support free enterprise
[04:12] (skoot) what on earth are u talkin abouit
[04:12] (CometBaby) rond .. regarding MS Vista. I read something a while back that some companies and some govt offices are forbiding the use of Vista on their machines at this time.
[04:12] (CometBaby) too many programs it will not support.
[04:14] (CometBaby) thats the main reason I will not install vista. I want to be able to continue to use all of the programs I am using right now. I have no such guarantee with Vista. Maybe in 6-12 mos other software programs will be able to rewrite drivers for vista .. meantime, I'm sticking with what I have.
[04:14] (rightooo) Report: 1 in 3 women are embarrassed in the buff
[04:14] (CometBaby) rightooo .. well, I am sure that is true for men too
[04:15] (CometBaby) there are such high expectations for a perfect body
[04:15] (rightooo) CometBaby ... i just saw that on tv
[04:15] (rightooo) CometBaby just read the headline there
[04:15] (CometBaby) rightooo, well, imo it is a sexist comment that was made. I believe the same is true of men :)
[04:15] (rightooo) well i dont like to be naked in front of others :P
[04:16] (rond) yeah its difficult for larger institutions to schedule the work to deal with the issues on a new release like this
[04:16] (rightooo) ..
[04:16] (rightooo) umm well ...i dont like to be naked in front of others :P
[04:16] (CometBaby) i think our bot is lagged a bit
[04:17] (CometBaby) rightooo ..lol.
[04:17] (rightooo) CiometBaby ..do u?
[04:17] (CometBaby) of course not
[04:17] (rightooo) x)
[04:18] (rightooo) and if i had to stand naked in fron of others i would obscure certain parts .. lol
[04:18] (CometBaby) imo .. a females body reaches its peak at about 16 .. that is when everything is looking like it should. It's all downhill from there. LOL
[04:19] (rightooo) umm naah ..downhill form 16 naah
[04:19] (rightooo) i would say maybe end 20s ?
[04:20] (rightooo) i dont know :P
[04:21] (rond) Hmmmm
[04:22] (rightooo) hey rond
[04:22] (rond) the older I get the older the downhill threshhold is
[04:22] (rond) Hello rightoooo
[04:22] (rightooo) lol thats exactly what i was thinking
[04:27] (bill-) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6506071.stm
[04:30] (bill-) hi Auf
[04:30] (Aufk|aren) Heya.
[04:30] (CometBaby) Has anyone ever tried any of these programs that use a system checkup to make sure your drivers and updates are current?
[04:31] (CometBaby) Offhand it sounds like a good idea but I'm not sure it isn't just spyware
[04:32] (TWThomas) it's spyware
[04:33] (TWThomas) Don't trust anything if it isn't from the company that makes the drivers
[04:33] (CometBaby) yeah I'm too paranoid to install that stuff
[04:34] (TWThomas) I have paranoia also about that stuff also
[04:36] (CometBaby) my email spam control program sure does a good job
[04:38] (t0tgiglz) hi comet
[04:38] (CometBaby) hey tot :)
[04:46] (t0tgiglz) how r u
[05:02] (_rwx) Abusive Domain or User
[05:06] (flm) anybody ever wach C-span ?
[05:08] (flm) Democrats see it as , Mater of fact, If people made it this year they can Tax it and you will continue to make so they can use it to buy votes.
[05:09] (flm) and They still say we have a Social security fund !
[05:09] (flm) and The Masses still believe them .
[05:09] (flm) anybody here ?
[05:10] (t0tgiglz) im here and no i dont
[05:10] (t0tgiglz) im watching some stupid show on tv
[05:10] (t0tgiglz) there is nothing on
[05:10] (flm) T0giglz whats new ?
[05:10] (t0tgiglz) but i cant believe ppl do this its called cheater
[05:10] (t0tgiglz) i really need to go back to work
[05:11] (flm) t0tgiglz you can't believe people cheet ??
[05:11] (t0tgiglz) welll that too
[05:11] (t0tgiglz) but the fact that they do a show blows my mind
[05:12] (flm) t0tgiglz I needed to send them after my X
[05:13] (t0tgiglz) just crazy
[05:13] (flm) totgiglz Yea but it happens and people do act that way .
[05:14] (Harsen) beef jerky is better than crystal meth
[05:14] (t0tgiglz) hey harsen
[05:14] (t0tgiglz) lord i need to get back to work
[05:14] (flm) t0tiglz go to work,, The gument needs your money !
[05:17] (flm) And The Democrats still think thay can say we have a Serplus,, Just because they raised taxes and The Dumb Masses believe then,, Despite the facts.
[05:17] (t0tgiglz) cant go to work
[05:17] (t0tgiglz) dr wont let me
[05:18] (flm) t0giglz Oh well there goes the serpluss
[05:18] (flm) morning thrasher
[05:19] (t0tgiglz) hi thrasher
[05:19] (flm) totgiglz are you in the USA? and are you a US citizan ?
[05:19] (Harsen) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU
[05:19] (Harsen) Watch that
[05:20] (flm) Harsen watch what ?
[05:20] (Harsen) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU
[05:20] (Harsen) "The Great Global Warming Swindle"
[05:21] (flm) Harsen I never go to any of those links ut I watched that one..
[05:22] (flm) Hersen and that doesn't fit in to the Socialist agenda,
[05:22] (flm) they don't like progress or business. it just don't fit .
[05:26] (flm) totgiglz why doesn't the Dr. let you go to work ?
[05:28] (flm) Democrats DO NOT whant any Spending cuts,, Just a Bigger heavyer taxing Government !! damn sounds like what the Republicans have done over the last 6 years !
[05:29] (t0tgiglz) im sick
[05:29] (t0tgiglz) hes had me out of work since last weds
[05:29] (flm) Government can't tax us in to a better economy .
[05:29] (t0tgiglz) well the er dr took me out last week nd my dr is keeping me out this week
[05:30] (flm) somebody needs to jump in here,, or I am going to have to start answering myself !
[05:30] (FreeTrad3) Abusive Domain or User
[05:30] (flm) t0tgigz why ?
[05:31] (flm) lz
[05:31] (t0tgiglz) severe sinus infection
[05:31] (t0tgiglz) so bad my faced completely swelled i couldnt break my fever
[05:31] (t0tgiglz) many other thingd
[05:31] (flm) totgiglz OUCH! do you live in GA where the pollin is a killer ?
[05:33] (t0tgiglz) im in az
[05:33] (t0tgiglz) they cant get me into the specialist he wants me to see until may 2
[05:33] (t0tgiglz) and im supposed to be getting married april 21
[05:35] (flm) t0tgiglz I hope every thing gets better and you make your wedding ok .
[05:36] (t0tgiglz) yeah me too
[05:38] (flm) GOD !! the Dumb masses are still talking about raising money for Katrina victoms,, Damn, it has been almost two years the ones that want to work are working by now and are set up in a new life or living conditions, The parasites will never so let them rot !
[05:39] (flm) t0tgigz my son got merried last week
[05:42] (t0tgiglz) cool
[05:46] * Disconnected
Session Close: Thu Mar 29 05:46:54 2007
Session Start: Thu Mar 29 05:47:55 2007
Session Ident: #politics
[05:47] * Now talking in #politics
[05:47] * Topic is 'Iran Let those British Soilders go or Else well Send you back to the 10th century, Oh wait you are in the 10th'
[05:47] * Set by FreeTrad3!free@wont.believ.eu on Wed Mar 28 15:17:21
[05:47] -moderatum- Channel #politics is moderated, but your hostname BillyWads (~D@ip68-2-237-130.ph.ph.cox.net) is regrettably not eligible for an automatic voice (ability to speak on channel). Sorry.
[05:49] (TWThomas) my dns / ip is messed up
[05:50] (flm) morning TWT
[05:51] (TWThomas) morning flm
[05:51] (flm) nobody talking thismorning ?? ??? ???? ????? ???????
[05:51] (flm) Oh there we go
[05:51] (TWThomas) nope
[05:51] (flm) how you doing .
[05:51] (flm) you watch C-Span ?
[05:52] (flm) TWThomas you an American ?
[05:52] (TWThomas) yes I'm a American
[05:53] (flm) TWT you have your taxes filed yet ?
[05:53] (TWThomas) flm : read http://users.vnet.net/timmywt/ you will see my Americaness
[05:53] (TWThomas) flm : I don't have to do that kind of stuff. it's all done for me
[05:56] (flm) TWT is that your whole family tree .
[05:56] (TWThomas) nope just a part of it
[05:56] (flm) nd is thet your picture at the very beginning ?
[05:56] (TWThomas) flm : yes
[05:56] (flm) You look pissed off .
[05:57] (TWThomas) nah just woke up on that picture
[05:57] (flm) LOL . the carolinas are a beautiful place .
[05:58] (flm) are you an Edwards fan ?
[05:58] (flm) or should I say Supporter ?
[05:59] (TWThomas) nope but we are related.
[05:59] (flm) TWThomas,, Are you a Democrat , ?
[06:00] (flm) TWT do you have any Political opinions at all ?
[06:00] (TWThomas) flm : I'm a Republican
[06:00] (Yaakov) I am not a democrat.
[06:00] (TWThomas) flm : I'm more inligned with President George W. Bush than you can really know
[06:00] (flm) TWT Conservative, or just a Republican ?
[06:01] (Yaakov) I am not a conservative.
[06:01] (TWThomas) a Bush Supporter to the End.
[06:01] (Harsen) TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran will delay the release of the only woman among 15 British military personnel detained last week if Tehran is faced with "fuss and wrong behavior" from Britain, a senior Iranian official said on Thursday.
[06:01] (Harsen) Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki said on Wednesday Iran would release Faye Turney "as soon as possible" but did not say when. A British diplomat in Tehran said the embassy had not had any official word.
[06:01] (Harsen) "We even said that the grounds were ready for the release of a woman among the British sailors but if we are faced with a fuss and wrong behavior then this would be suspended and it would not take place," Ali Larijani, the secretary of Iran's Supreme National Security Council, said on state television.
[06:01] (flm) TWT I support Bush in many ways bet Bush and Republicans in general haven't kept with the smaller less spending plan they promiced .
[06:02] (flm) promised
[06:02] (flm) Harsen are you British ?
[06:02] (Harsen) no
[06:02] (flm) Harsen where are you from and where do you live now ?
[06:02] (Yaakov) I am not British.
[06:02] (Harsen) I told you before Frankie
[06:03] (Harsen) I am from the former Soviet Union and I live in Canada now
[06:03] (flm) Yaakov Morning how you doing this morning /
[06:03] (flm) harsen From a communist country to a Socialist country ! Hows that working for you ?
[06:03] (Yaakov) Hello, flm. I am well, and you?
[06:04] (flm) Yaakov I am doing fine,, But i have been watching C-Span and getting my blood pressure up.
[06:05] (t0tgiglz) then stop watching
[06:05] (t0tgiglz) lol
[06:05] (td) flm: are you a socialist?
[06:05] (t0tgiglz) im watching a documentary on fdr
[06:05] (flm) Yaakov the Socialist planning all their Tax increeses and How and where to spend more of my money !
[06:06] (Yaakov) I am against tax increases.
[06:06] (td) flm: leave the country then
[06:06] (flm) Td ofcorse,., I love to take without getting lubed up first !
[06:06] (flm) td why would I do that ?
[06:06] (flm) td are you a Socialist ?
[06:06] (td) I'd be more worried about all the U.S. Taxpayer money that is missing in Iraq or has been horribly wasted
[06:07] (flm) td are you a Socialist too ?
[06:07] (td) no im not a socialist
[06:07] (flm) td ok are you a Liberal ?
[06:07] (flm) td how about a conservative ?
[06:07] (td) like.. all that money to Iraq for this
[06:07] (td) MOSUL, Iraq (AFP) - Iraq's government admitted on Thursday that policemen were behind the vengeful slaughter of 70 Sunni Arabs in a northern town, heightening concern about its complicity in sectarian killings.
[06:08] (td) how does that make you feel?
[06:09] (_HellMngr) sad
[06:09] (td) do you support a mission that helps train police who turn into death squads at the drop of a hat
[06:09] (flm) td,, I don't like that at all,, Do you believe that saddoms killings were exceptable ?
[06:09] (_HellMngr) Not all of the police are like that
[06:09] (_HellMngr) so many of them believe in the mission
[06:09] (_HellMngr) just like our soldiers
[06:09] (_HellMngr) who believe in the mission
[06:09] (_HellMngr) who want peace, freedom, and democracy
[06:09] (_HellMngr) who else will shed blood for these principles?
[06:10] (td) innocent civilians is my guess
[06:10] (_HellMngr) This isn't a war that will be over because you pull out next year
[06:10] (_HellMngr) This will be a war we fight for the rest of our lives.
[06:10] (_HellMngr) Not just Iraq.
[06:11] (td) "a war"
[06:11] (_HellMngr) You could call it 'jihad'.
[06:11] (_HellMngr) a struggle
[06:11] (_HellMngr) for what is right and just
[06:11] (Lupine) mein kampf!
[06:11] (td) what I call it is totally retarded, these elements didnt exist in Iraq, and now we have to "fight" them forever
[06:11] (td) because someone didnt see this coming
[06:11] (_HellMngr) these elements exist everywhere.
[06:12] (_HellMngr) those elements exist here
[06:12] (td) well let the U.S. military come home and sweep through America then
[06:13] (_HellMngr) it'll be interesting to see how we handle it
[06:14] (flm) td sounds like a good big government democratic fascist,, " let the Us Army sweep through America" And you are not a Socoalist !
[06:14] (td) I've seen how they handle it
[06:14] (td) they built a 24 Hour a day espresso bar at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, you can sit behind the walls and sip coffee all day
[06:14] (flm) td,, i am aware that not all Democratic voters are Socialist,, !
[06:14] (td) while people are dying outside
[06:15] (flm) Just the smart ones.
[06:15] (flm) ther rest are the dumb masses .
[06:16] (flm) OK I am sorry I am just venting.. I'll stop .
[06:16] (_HellMngr) something wrong with a coffee bar in an embassy
[06:16] (_HellMngr) no offense, but that's what we're trying to export
[06:16] (_HellMngr) prosperity
[06:16] (flm) HellMngr not in my book .
[06:16] (_HellMngr) s/something/nothing/
[06:16] (_HellMngr) sorry
[06:18] (td) Fidel Castro wrote an op-ed in a cuban newspaper that ran this morning, I've got to find it
[06:18] (flm) I gotta go yall have a great day . God bless !
[06:18] (_HellMngr) i heard about that
[06:18] (_HellMngr) i've not read it
[06:18] (_HellMngr) it's probably en espanol
[06:18] (flm) td you a Fedel Castro fan ?
[06:18] (flm) td you are not a Socialist,!! you are a Comunist !! ??
[06:18] (_HellMngr) I think he said using crops for ethanol would destroy the third world
[06:18] (Yaakov) I am not a Fidel Castro fan.
[06:18] (td) he's done great work in Cuba
[06:18] (_HellMngr) which at first glance, is not an unreasonable concern
[06:18] (td) but at second glance?
[06:18] (flm) yaakov we know you are a NeoCon Fascist war monger bushite !
[06:19] (_HellMngr) i don't know.
[06:19] (_HellMngr) someone else has probably taken a second glance
[06:19] (flm) yaakov LOL !
[06:19] (_HellMngr) i can only hope
[06:19] (_HellMngr) check this out
[06:19] (_HellMngr) The headline reads: "Condemned to Premature Death by Hunger and Thirst more than 3 Billion People of the World."
[06:19] (_HellMngr) that could be spin
[06:19] (_HellMngr) but who knows
[06:19] (_HellMngr) those nutty commies speak some hateful shit
[06:19] (td) I can see horrible labor practices being employed in the 3rd world to grow crops for ethanol
[06:19] (Aufk|aren) Iran has "suspended" the release of Faye Turney.
[06:20] (_HellMngr) yeah
[06:21] (_HellMngr) but hunger and starvation?
[06:21] (flm) td are you a comunist ?
[06:21] (Aufk|aren) Apparently they don't like being told they're wrong.
[06:21] (_HellMngr) probably assumes the price of corn will shoot higher outside the reach of people
[06:21] (td) well, enterprising land owners will grow crops for ethanol and not food
[06:21] (_HellMngr) thirst?
[06:21] (Yaakov) I an not a conservative--neo-, palæ- or otherwise.
[06:21] (_HellMngr) right
[06:21] (_HellMngr) the nice thing about ethanol is that it's fucking easy
[06:21] (td) and before you know it, everyone is growing sugar beats
[06:21] (flm) aufk|aren Who is wrong ?
[06:21] (_HellMngr) i don't know why we use gasoline over alcohol
[06:21] (_HellMngr) I'm sure this has been touched on before
[06:21] (flm) Yaakov just funning with you .
[06:21] (td) Aufklaren: its really quite simple sir, they just need to admit they were in Iranian waters
[06:21] (Aufk|aren) _HellMngr: Because we want to save the alcohol for drinking.
[06:21] (Aufk|aren) td: But they weren't.
[06:21] (Aufk|aren) td: So they wont admit it.
[06:21] (td) well then we have a mexican stand off
[06:21] (td) I hope these marines like falafel
[06:21] (flm) td They were not ! in Iranian waters.
[06:21] (Aufk|aren) td: The Iranians will flinch first.
[06:21] (flm) td are you Muslim ?
[06:21] (td) thats beside the point
[06:21] (panini) td are you a dumbass?
[06:22] (_HellMngr) i really want to try iranian food
[06:22] (_HellMngr) maybe i should join the army
[06:22] (td) its good stuff
[06:22] (panini) it's bland
[06:22] (Aufk|aren) I quite like Iranian food myself.
[06:22] (_HellMngr) afghans rock the fucking house
[06:22] (flm) panini ^5 that was my next question
[06:22] (_HellMngr) they make the best kebab
[06:22] (Aufk|aren) I like Bangladeshi curries the best. :)
[06:22] (_HellMngr) best kebabs i ever had was from an afghan place in herndon, va
[06:22] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren!
[06:22] (td) thats a good idea I think I will go to an Iranian restaurant for lunch
[06:22] (_HellMngr) my iranian coworker says his shit is the best though
[06:22] (Aufk|aren) Yaaaaaaaaaakoooooooooov.
[06:24] (panini) the problem is the iranians never heard of spices
[06:24] (Aufk|aren) (Boxing announcer style, you like it?)
[06:24] (_HellMngr) i doubt they could rule the world for hundreds of years and not know about spices
[06:24] (Yaakov) It was very picturesque.
[06:24] (flm) td,, are you a Muslim comunist ?
[06:24] (td) a muslim communist?
[06:24] (td) the two really dont work together
[06:24] (flm) td well are you ?
[06:24] (flm) Td are you a Muslim ??
[06:24] (Yaakov) I am neither Muslim not Communist.
[06:24] (_HellMngr) Muslims are capitalist
[06:24] (Yaakov) nor
[06:24] (_HellMngr) why would they pay charity if they were not?
[06:24] (flm) OK Muslim Fascist !
[06:24] (Yaakov) not not, nor
[06:24] (flm) they do go togeather !
[06:24] (Yaakov) I am not a fascist.
[06:24] (td) flm: why are you so determined to put labels on people
[06:24] (td) instead of discussing the issues
[06:25] (flm) Td I would like to know where you are comming from , So I can see things from your point of view !
[06:25] (td) no you dont
[06:25] (Aufk|aren) I'm a Muslim Communist. Allah, for me, represents the dictatorship of the proletariat. Allahu Akhbar and workers of the world unite.
[06:25] (_HellMngr) heheh
[06:25] (panini) td labels are good because it enables us to dismiss ppl
[06:25] (flm) td the Issue is Muslim Fascist want every one to convert.. or dye,, and they are determind to see that it happens !
[06:25] (_HellMngr) that's why they ran the soviets out
[06:27] * Lupine quietly lifts up Aufk|aren's burqa.. and lays a fart bomb under it.. then sneaks away snickering
[06:27] (td) or dye? would they used tie dye
[06:27] (Yaakov) flm: "Islamists" is the term of currency.
[06:27] (td) because that would be kind of nice
[06:27] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: I'm wearing a burqini.
[06:27] (Aufk|aren) It's very fetching.
[06:27] (Lupine) I actually saw my first burqa in public last week.. and judging by the girth.. it was a good thing
[06:27] (td) Faye sure looked adorable in her new head gear yesterday
[06:27] (Aufk|aren) http://www.neatorama.com/images/2005-12/burqini.jpg
[06:27] (Aufk|aren) There I am.
[06:27] (Aufk|aren) Note the damp patch near my crotch.
[06:27] (Lupine) quiet a few girls with head scarfs, etc.. but not full burqa's
[06:27] (flm) Td, you got me,, I could never see things from your point of view. I could never get my head that far up my but !
[06:27] (Lupine) you need depends
[06:27] (td) flm: are you a mindless idealogue by any chance?
[06:27] (flm) Td could be
[06:27] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: A town not far from my home town has one of the highest proportions of Muslims in Britain. You're almost guaranteed to see a niqab or two if you go shopping there.
[06:28] (td) I thought there was a good chance of it
[06:28] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: Technically a burqa is just a headscarf, I think. The niqab is the full face covering. I don't know what it's called when even the eyes are covered except for a mesh.
[06:28] (td) my favourite muslim headgear is the bellaclava
[06:28] (Lupine) Aufk|aren: Oh, i mean the one-peice total body
[06:28] (flm) td,, My idea id Freedom of the individual, for all individuals !! Is that an idealogue ?? or just mindless ?
[06:30] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: Check these out: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Burqa_Afghanistan_01.jpg
[06:30] (Lupine) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Burqa_Afghanistan_01.jpg/400px-Burqa_Afghanistan_01.jpg
[06:30] (Lupine) doh.. same image :-)
[06:30] (Aufk|aren) lol
[06:30] (Lupine) but yea, that is what I saw. giant potato sack with tiny holes to look out
[06:30] (flm) td I am definatly not a collectivist !
[06:31] (flm) td nore do I believe that the comune wealth deserves the governmet taking from the filthy rich to give to them !
[06:31] (td) great
[06:31] (td) how about what you do believe in
[06:32] (flm) td, I told you I believe in Freedom of the individual, For all individuals !
[06:33] (flm) hello Bom2
[06:33] (bom2) hi
[06:33] (Aufk|aren) Heh, Iran is "demanding an apology" for entering their territory.
[06:33] (Aufk|aren) Fat chance.
[06:33] (td) Blair will crumble and be forced to admit his crimes
[06:33] (bom2) td, you're so predictable.
[06:33] (flm) Aufk|aren If we could do it my way, we would bomb the shit out of Irans Capital city !
[06:33] (Aufk|aren) td: You're a bit of a cunt, aren't you?
[06:34] (Yaakov) td: You don't really believe that, do you?
[06:34] (td) not really
[06:34] (flm) Aufk|aren to show them how sorry we are .
[06:34] (td) but I do believe the possibility that Britain is not telling the whole truth
[06:34] (Yaakov) td: I didn't think so. I also don't think you believe that the Iranians are telling the truth.
[06:34] (Aufk|aren) td: Despite there being no logical basis for anyone believing that whatsoever.
[06:34] (flm) td, do you believe in "Individual Freedom " ??
[06:34] (td) I think theres something both sides arent telling us
[06:35] (Aufk|aren) td: Despite the fact that Britain has provided evidence showing they were in Iraqi territory.
[06:35] (bom2) how's 'telling the whole truth' relevant to having to release the hostages immediately and unconditionally, and with apologies
[06:35] (td) thats hardly evidence
[06:35] (Aufk|aren) td: The Iranians claim that if we go to the UN over this, they might put them on trial.
[06:35] (bom2) no nation 'tells the whole truth'.
[06:35] (Aufk|aren) td: Yes, it is evidence.
[06:35] (bom2) it actually is.
[06:35] (td) they could have doctored what they produced
[06:35] (flm) td,, there is a sign of sanity,, Do not trust any government to tell us the truth !!
[06:35] (Yaakov) I believe in limited individual freedom.
[06:36] (Aufk|aren) td: No, they could not.
[06:36] (Aufk|aren) The information came from the Indian merchant vessel,.
[06:36] (Aufk|aren) Which was still at the location it had been boarded.
[06:36] (td) sure it did
[06:36] (Aufk|aren) It provided coordinates.
[06:36] (flm) td,, You haven't answered!! Do you believe in individual freedom ?
[06:36] (Aufk|aren) td: Right, so the Indians are in on this too?
[06:36] (Yaakov) India is a UK vassal state!
[06:36] (bom2) actually, way I feel about Iran, it doesn't deserve to have sovereign control of anything if any Western military is around, ever.
[06:36] (Yaakov) Oh wait... they fixed that, didn't they?
[06:37] (Yaakov) I believe in limited individual freedom.
[06:37] (Aufk|aren) The Iranians are completely full of shit.
[06:37] (plm4) !list
[06:37] (BillyWads) I syndicate the following:
[06:37] (BillyWads) mirc.net
[06:37] #politics Cannot send to channel
[06:37] #politics Cannot send to channel
[06:37] (Aufk|aren) The first coordinates they provided were in Iraqi territory.
[06:37] (Aufk|aren) Then they backtracked and gave some other coordinates.
[06:37] (flm) td,, or doesn't islam alow individuals to be free to do anything ?
[06:37] (bom2) k, bbl.
[06:37] (td) I dont believe the Brits or Iranians, we dont know the truth
[06:37] (td) thats my stance
[06:38] (Aufk|aren) The Iranians know they're talking shit. The entire world, except td, knows they're talking shit. It's not territory, it's the Iranians trying to kidnap British soldiers. Territory is irrelevant.
[06:38] (flm) Td, No freedom for the individual ?
[06:38] (Aufk|aren) td: Why don't you believe the Brits? Any good reason, or just indulging in being a twat?
[06:38] (panini) td speak for yourself... YOU don't know the truth
[06:38] (td) Ok I dont know the truth
[06:38] (panini) but I do
[06:38] (td) if you want to believe that you do, be my guest
[06:38] (Yaakov) td: In any case, even *if* they Brits were in Iranian waters, an escort *out* would be the thing to do, not capture.
[06:38] (Aufk|aren) td: the rest of teh sane world does
[06:39] (flm) panini he is a Muslim Fascist .
[06:39] (panini) that makes me superior
[06:39] (panini) flm yeah.... or just a moron
[06:39] (flm) panini or both !
[06:40] (Aufk|aren) Some Arabic newspaper has claimed that the capture was planned since March 18.
[06:40] (td) oh this is good
[06:41] (td) WASHINGTON (AFP) - Republicans in Congress are trying to bar former vice president
[06:41] (td) Al Gore's anti-global warming mega-concert from its planned venue on the steps of the US Capitol building.
[06:41] (td) Republicans trying to spoil all the fun now
[06:41] (Aufk|aren) http://www.asharqalawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=1&id=8425
[06:41] (td) free rock concert and they want to stop it
[06:41] (td) Aufklaren: this newspaper is published in London England
[06:42] (Aufk|aren) td: So?
[06:42] (td) so?
[06:42] (Aufk|aren) td: It must therefore be a tool of the British government, right?
[06:42] (Aufk|aren) Maye the Illuminati are in on it too! Or the reptilians!
[06:42] (td) well I'll go ahead and read it, even though its probably trash
[06:43] (Aufk|aren) It's circulation is primarily in Arab countries.
[06:43] (Aufk|aren) Its*
[06:44] (td) well these claims are not backed up by anything credible
[06:45] (Aufk|aren) They're backed up by a source within Al-Quds.
[06:45] (Aufk|aren) Part of the Revolutionary Guard.
[06:45] (td) are they?
[06:45] (Aufk|aren) What do you want? A note on a napkin from Ahmadinejad himself?
[06:45] (td) read the second paragraph
[06:45] (FreeTrad3) Abusive Domain or User
[06:46] (flm) td,, it is easy to see through you. !
[06:46] (Aufk|aren) td: WHat?
[06:46] (td) it says here that their plans were exposed to British and American intelligence, if they were exposed, why would the Brits operate boarding parties so close to the border
[06:46] (Aufk|aren) td: Not the plan for the kidnap.
[06:46] (CryHavoc) td...perhaps to interdict naughty little shi'a fuckheads??
[06:46] (Aufk|aren) td: It's a reference to general Revolutionary Guard plans.
[06:47] (flm) Good day And God bless !
[06:47] (CryHavoc) IMO Ahmadinejad wants to relive the glory days....
[06:47] (CryHavoc) 1979...when he and the other hostage takers were the power..
[06:48] (CryHavoc) this incident might make or break the Labour party
[06:48] (Aufk|aren) td: The Iranian general defected before March 18, which was when the decision to kidnap the sailors was apparently taken.
[06:48] (Aufk|aren) CryHavoc: No, it wont.
[06:48] (CryHavoc) Auf...depends...
[06:48] (Aufk|aren) CryHavoc: I honestly don't know where you come up with this stuff.
[06:49] (CryHavoc) Iran is acting rather stupidly though..
[06:49] (Aufk|aren) If Blair mismanages it, it'll be Blair that gets the blame.
[06:49] (td) Aufklaren: thats not nice
[06:49] (Aufk|aren) The Labour Pary itself has nothing to do with it.
[06:49] (CryHavoc) Auf..and what will happen then...
[06:49] (td) He just called you out Cryhavoc
[06:49] (Aufk|aren) td, stop being a wanker.
[06:49] (CryHavoc) Balir is the Labour party PM
[06:49] (Aufk|aren) I know it's difficult, but you could give it a bash.
[06:49] (CryHavoc) if he mismanages it..will he not possibly step down??
[06:50] (Aufk|aren) CryHavoc: Well, he's stepping down anyway in June. Barring some complete and utter cockup that's totally his fault, he'll go in June.
[06:50] (CryHavoc) make or break Labour party = a determinant as to how long they may hold power in Commons
[06:50] (Aufk|aren) If there is a complete cockup, it'll be Beckett, Blair and the Foreign Office that get the blame.
[06:50] (CryHavoc) :)
[06:50] (Aufk|aren) CryHavoc: Not really. People know this hasn't got anything to do with the Labour Party. The next election isn't for eyars.
[06:50] (CryHavoc) Auf...once again Blair is a LABOUR party PM
[06:51] (Aufk|aren) So?
[06:51] (CryHavoc) Next formal election is not for years...
[06:51] (CryHavoc) but a VoNC could also drop
[06:51] (Aufk|aren) People don't think the Labour Party have anything to do with what's happening.
[06:51] (Aufk|aren) And Blair's stepping down anyway.
[06:51] (Aufk|aren) He'll take any mess with him.
[06:51] (_HellMngr) i like blair
[06:51] (Aufk|aren) Gordon Brown's problems are manifold, but the Iranian problem wont be one of them.
[06:51] (CryHavoc) Iran though has made a grave error...
[06:51] (_HellMngr) he's been a good friend to the US
[06:52] (Aufk|aren) Yes, Iran has made a grave error. It probably calculates that doing this is in its own interest.
[06:52] (CryHavoc) you do not want to get on wrong side of SAS
[06:52] (cyberfrg) so now the saudi king is talking crap...
[06:52] (cyberfrg) RIYADH, Saudi Arabia . King Abdullah denounced the American military presence in Iraq as an "illegitimate foreign occupation" and called on the West to end its financial embargo against the Palestinians.
[06:52] (cyberfrg) The Saudi monarch's speech Wednesday was a strongly worded lecture to Arab leaders that their divisions had helped fuel turmoil across the Middle East, and he urged them to show unity. But in opening the Arab summit, Abdullah also nodded to hardliners by criticizing the U.S. presence in Iraq.
[06:52] (Aufk|aren) I think, in the long run, they will just end up confirming their status as a rogue state.
[06:52] (Lupine) SHEBOYGAN, Wis. — Twin sisters were charged with disorderly conduct on Tuesday after taking topless photos in front of a 5-year-old boy.
[06:52] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: OMG, a five year old saw boobs!
[06:52] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: It was only a few years ago that he was sucking on one daily.
[06:52] (Lupine) yep
[06:53] (Aufk|aren) I don't understand the deal. As long as they weren't interfering with him sexually, what's the problem with him seeing them naked? :p
[06:53] (CryHavoc) what I essentially said thoughAUf..is the management of this issue may have an effect upon what position the PM and his contingent may hold ...
[06:53] (CryHavoc) and at the moment..Labour is in charge
[06:53] (CryHavoc) heh
[06:54] (CryHavoc) maybe the kid can bring one of his sisters in for show & tell...
[06:54] (CryHavoc) Class...this is a Tit!
[06:54] (Aufk|aren) Right, but people don't hold the Labour Party responsible for the actions of Blair in a given situation.
[06:54] (CryHavoc) Aud...why I clarified my statement
[06:54] (Aufk|aren) They know that this has nothing to do with the Labour Party, just Blair.
[06:54] (cyberfrg) liberal pussification of the world
[06:55] (_HellMngr) how far is too far to go in pursuing this matter?
[06:55] (Aufk|aren) _HellMngr: Anything is acceptable in getting the troops back.
[06:55] (_HellMngr) I think the US should back the UK in this as far as they want to take it.
[06:55] (CryHavoc) Iran is going to start having unexplainable accidents..
[06:55] (_HellMngr) but this is londons show
[06:55] (CryHavoc) hell..we probably are....but England can take care of messes like this on its own...
[06:56] (Aufk|aren) I think it's only going to get more intense from here.
[06:56] (_HellMngr) yeah
[06:56] (_HellMngr) i don't doubt that.
[06:56] (Aufk|aren) The Iranians have said they wont release Faye Turney now.
[06:56] (_HellMngr) yeah
[06:56] (CryHavoc) Auf..no..its gonna go clandestine...
[06:56] (_HellMngr) i'm fine with that too
[06:56] (Aufk|aren) They're saying they'll put them on trial if we go to the UN.
[06:56] (CryHavoc) Iranian Oil processing facility for example...
[06:56] (Aufk|aren) THey'll only release them if we apologise for entering their territory, which we will not do.
[06:56] (CryHavoc) it may start having accidents
[06:56] (_HellMngr) they want to see how weak you are
[06:57] (_HellMngr) they make up a fucking grievance and try to bully you
[06:57] (Yaakov) The most pushups I can do in one set is 93.
[06:57] (CryHavoc) which is putting Blair on the spot...
[06:57] (Aufk|aren) Cry: Things might happen behind the scenes, but the row I think is only going to become more loud and in the public. Accusation and counter-accusation, threats, etc.
[06:57] (_HellMngr) until you punch them in the fucking mouth and say bow down
[06:57] (CryHavoc) Auf...of course..Go-political Posturing is the name of the game..
[06:58] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: That's very good. I struggle with more than twenty. :P
[06:58] (Aufk|aren) In fact, I struggle getting to 20.
[06:58] (CryHavoc) there was a time when ritish Cannons were heard around the world..
[06:58] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: Well, I was making an effort to achieve 100.
[06:58] (CryHavoc) the Brits invented Gunboat Diplomacy in its modern form
[06:58] (Aufk|aren) And you pussied out with 7 left? ;)
[06:58] (Aufk|aren) You wimp!
[06:58] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: I abandoned it when I got the flu. I should return to it and complete it for honor's sake.
[06:59] (CryHavoc) AufKlaren does silly Push-Ups after his Silly walk
[06:59] (Yaakov) 93 was very tough.
[06:59] (OcDoc) Canadian comedian on the gala last night said his computer got a virus and his fireplace had the flu
[06:59] (CryHavoc) heh
[06:59] (rightooo) oO
[06:59] (OcDoc) er flue
[06:59] (CryHavoc) blehh..got some more chores to run today lol
[07:00] (OcDoc) he had a long list of household items that had various forms of illness which I have forgotten ... except that his roof had shingles
[07:00] (n00b089) yes
[07:00] (n00b089) no
[07:00] (n00b089) 3 bags full
[07:00] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: You'll have to start at the beginning now.
[07:00] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: It doesn't count if you get a rest.
[07:01] (CryHavoc) ok...time to get er done...bbl...depending on goodies haul for today lol
[07:01] (Yaakov) Heh. I am just doing sets of 40 at the moment. Not trying to exceed that.
[07:01] (OcDoc) Cry: break a leg
[07:01] (t0tgiglz) occccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc
[07:01] (OcDoc) totttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt
[07:01] (Yaakov) I think t0tgiglz is a Scots.
[07:01] (OcDoc) Yaakov: she likes her men in skirts?
[07:02] (Yaakov) I don't know about that bit.
[07:02] (Yaakov) You would have to ask her.
[07:02] (t0tgiglz) just yaakov cus hes got sexy legs
[07:02] (t0tgiglz) ;)
[07:02] (t0tgiglz) actually i have no scots in me
[07:02] (t0tgiglz) lol
[07:02] (Sublimer-) man
[07:02] (Yaakov) OchDoch!
[07:02] (Sublimer-) iran is just fuckin with the west
[07:02] (Sublimer-) just POKEING!
[07:02] (Sublimer-) and POKEING!
[07:02] (OcDoc) I just have to laugh when I get one of those e-mail ads for penis enlargers ... my wife said last night that I need something to shrink mine
[07:03] (t0tgiglz) im german french irish spanish and puertugueses
[07:03] (n00b089) iran is just fuckin .....end of story
[07:03] (OcDoc) Yaakov: ach!
[07:03] (t0tgiglz) oc she just tells you that to make you feel better
[07:03] (t0tgiglz) lol
[07:04] (OcDoc) totgiglz: well, she was gasping at the time so I believed her ... besides I said, "See? you just shrunk it!" and she laughed
[07:04] (Aufk|aren) Damn. Just got back to my screen.
[07:04] (n00b089) stop doing her up the ass then
[07:04] (Aufk|aren) I could have done so much with "actually i have no scots in me."
[07:04] (OcDoc) noob: what do you know about it?
[07:04] (Aufk|aren) So many possibilities.
[07:04] (OcDoc) Aufklaren: yes, I gave that a pass too
[07:04] (n00b089) too much.....scary
[07:05] (OcDoc) noob: you're just jealous
[07:05] (n00b089) must be
[07:05] (n00b089) must be
[07:05] (OcDoc) at my age I'm glad to get any at all
[07:06] (n00b089) 12?
[07:06] (cyberfrg) lol
[07:06] (OcDoc) yeah ... right ... heh
[07:06] (cyberfrg) 12 year olds get mad sex
[07:06] (cyberfrg) how pathetic is that
[07:06] (cyberfrg) a little kid gets more sex then me
[07:06] (OcDoc) my cousin introduced me to it about that age ... five decades ago
[07:06] (n00b089) i hope not
[07:07] (Aufk|aren) OcDoc: You're cousin introduced you to underage sex?
[07:07] (n00b089) keeping it in the family eh?
[07:07] (Aufk|aren) GAH
[07:07] (Aufk|aren) Your*
[07:07] (Aufk|aren) Stupid hangover.
[07:07] (n00b089) deliverance
[07:07] (OcDoc) Aufklaren: why, yes ... is that bad?
[07:07] (cyberfrg) lol
[07:07] (Aufk|aren) I feel vaguely stupid. I keep finding myself staring vacantly into the distance.
[07:07] (Aufk|aren) OcDoc: Er, yes. It's a bit icky, don't you think?
[07:07] (FreeTrad3) Abusive Domain or User
[07:07] (OcDoc) Aufklaren: actually, I wish I could stare vacantly into the distance sometimes
[07:08] (Aufk|aren) Try drinking 8 or 9 pints of Stella
[07:08] (Aufk|aren) And forgetting to have a pint of water or two before bed.
[07:08] (OcDoc) Aufklaren: well, I liked it at the time, and have fond memories
[07:08] (Harsen) CO^2 causing global warming is the greatest sham perpetrated against the Western Public since I don't know...
[07:08] (Harsen) Since Global Cooling?
[07:08] (OcDoc) Auklaren: I can't remember an age when I wasn't interested in girls
[07:09] (Aufk|aren) I suppose cousin is sort of acceptable. Sort of. Not my cup of tea, but it's not like doing your sister I suppose.
[07:09] (OcDoc) Aufklaren: well, no ...
[07:09] (OcDoc) that would be icky
[07:09] (Aufk|aren) OcDoc: Actually, I can. I was pretty asexual until I was about 11 or 12. More interested in books, games, etc.
[07:10] (Aufk|aren) That changed fairly rapidly.
[07:10] (t0tgiglz) lol
[07:10] (t0tgiglz) im bck
[07:10] (n00b089) hurrah
[07:10] (n00b089) boooo
[07:10] (OcDoc) totgiglz: don't scroll up
[07:10] (t0tgiglz) yeah i know we could have went places with that comment
[07:10] (Harsen) l;sdfklsjfklsjdfksjfddsjfklsjdfk
[07:10] (Harsen) did you see this?
[07:10] (Harsen) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYZre8kEsuw
[07:10] (t0tgiglz) i already did oc
[07:10] (BillyWads) huh?
[07:10] #politics Cannot send to channel
[07:11] (t0tgiglz) sorry had to put towels away
[07:11] (OcDoc) totgiglz: in that case, don't go in the basement
[07:11] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: Haha, I saw that on the news before.
[07:11] (Harsen) Aufk|aren, So much for bargaining with Iran from a position of strength.
[07:11] (Aufk|aren) Look at the shapes that man is throwing.
[07:11] (OcDoc) Harsen: did you see the youtube of the new polar bear cub at the Berlin Zoo?
[07:11] (JupaSaur) senate judiciary committee about to start kyel sampson grilling in a few moments. interestingly sampson is expected to say he just worded things wrong and did not spin what he did right. and that is the problem. these people do wrong and then try to say what is wrong is how they marketed what they did rather than what they did is wrong
[07:11] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: What do you mean?
[07:12] (OcDoc) did you all see what Obama said when asked about his childhood friend who was living in a car
[07:12] (n00b089) who cares, wheres the poooooooooooooooooosy#
[07:12] (JupaSaur) no OcDoc what did obama say?
[07:12] (OcDoc) he said (quote) "It's sad when people you know are having hard times"
[07:12] (Aufk|aren) He should give him a job on his campaign.
[07:12] (Harsen) Aufk|aren, I hope Ali Khamenei doesn't see that video of Rove
[07:13] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: lol
[07:13] (OcDoc) I'm starting to like Obama more and more
[07:13] (Yaakov) Obama is slimy.
[07:13] (Yaakov) I don't trust him.
[07:13] (TheTailor) JupaSaur, maybe, you should wait and actually see what the man says before you come to a conclusion.
[07:14] (JupaSaur) i certainly like obama much better than that political prostitute h. clinton
[07:14] (OcDoc) Yaakov: I bet he doesn't say anything like that when a bill comes up to help the homeless with tax money
[07:14] (Sublimer-) obama is young, and dumb.
[07:14] (Aufk|aren) Rove dances a bit like my dad at weddings, but he can be forgiven.
[07:14] (Aufk|aren) That video is funny.
[07:14] (JupaSaur) TheTailor that is why i am wathcing that senate hearing
[07:14] (Sublimer-) JupaSaur: true that
[07:14] (TheTailor) JupaSaur, yeah but you had to shoot your mouth off before he speaks.
[07:15] (Harsen) Ugh that video is awful.
[07:15] (OcDoc) right-oh ... off to woik
[07:15] (OcDoc) g'day totgiglz
[07:15] (OcDoc) g'day Auklaren
[07:15] (Aufk|aren) g'day mate
[07:15] (OcDoc) g'day The Tailor
[07:15] (OcDoc) heh
[07:15] (TheTailor) See ya Docster
[07:15] (JupaSaur) TheTailor that came from a pre-released copy of sampson's opening statement which he will read before the committee. so i did hear what he has to say. but i want to see what he says during the q and a
[07:16] (TheTailor) JupaSaur, ok then, at least you had some basis.
[07:16] (JupaSaur) and btw, dems and repubs alike pull that crap of trying to pass off their wrongdoings by blaming the way the spin it rather than admitting what is wrong is what they did
[07:17] (panini) Sublimer, and magic
[07:17] (Sublimer-) panini: yes
[07:17] (Sublimer-) uh
[07:17] (Sublimer-) whats the big deal about firing some attorney's
[07:17] (TheTailor) If there was any wrongdoing.
[07:17] (Sublimer-) ?
[07:18] (TheTailor) JupaSaur, what was he supposed to have done?
[07:18] (panini) it's a non issue
[07:18] (Lupine) Frankly, this should be all he says "US Attorneys serve at the pleasure of the President. This hearing respresents an unconstitutional assault upon the Seperation of Powers. " *stands up, walks over to senators* "Here is subpeona's for each of you to appear before a grand jury, to investigate your unconstitutional and illegal actions"
[07:18] (Sublimer-) the attorney's are appointed by the president in office.. if he wants to fire em
[07:18] (Sublimer-) wtf
[07:18] (TheTailor) Sublimer, there isn't anything wrong, it's a non issue and a waste of time.
[07:18] (compdoc) Sublimer-, havent really seen anything that tells me exactly why - seems theyre just looking for something
[07:18] (rightooo) "Senate getting ready on Iraq War Bill"
[07:19] (TheTailor) compdoc, but of course they don't know what they are looking for, just something.
[07:19] (Sublimer-) as far as that goes.. bush vetoes.. the iraq bill, then what next? the democrats are gonna bend over and take it?
[07:19] (Lupine) But I think we seriously need an independant special prosecuter to examine the unconstituional actions of these congressman
[07:19] (Sublimer-) i mean.. this isn't gonna go well at all.
[07:19] (compdoc) well, I guess if you fire ppl for nothing but political reasons, maybe its time to change that policy
[07:19] (Sublimer-) heh
[07:19] (Aufk|aren) SUblimer-: What option do they have?
[07:19] (Harsen) Aufk|aren, did you see news this morning?
[07:19] (JupaSaur) compdoc yah
[07:20] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: You'll have to be more specific than that. :P
[07:20] (TheTailor) compdoc, no, it's not time to change the policy.
[07:20] (Sublimer-) compdoc: he hired them on his first term.. they were mulling on whether to fire them all on his 2nd term, but they settled on 8
[07:20] (TheTailor) compdoc, they are always fired for political reasons.
[07:20] (Sublimer-) compdoc: non issue like tailor said.
[07:20] (Harsen) Aufk|aren, Iran says they may not release Turney (I think thats it)
[07:20] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: Yep. They're saying they wont release her now.
[07:20] (TheTailor) I think they were lucky that Bush let them stay at all.
[07:21] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: Apparently because Britain has been creating a "furore."
[07:21] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: They're saying that they'll put them on trial if we go to the UN.
[07:21] (compdoc) they ruined the lives of several good (I assume) judges - so maybe it is time to change it
[07:21] (Aufk|aren) I hope the SAS are practicing rescue operations right now.
[07:21] (TheTailor) What judges?
[07:21] (compdoc) attourneys
[07:21] (TheTailor) compdoc, how did they "ruin" their lives?
[07:22] (TheTailor) Oh, attorneys
[07:22] (TheTailor) compdoc, how did they "ruin" their lives?
[07:22] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: They're demanding we apologise.
[07:22] (JupaSaur) it depends on the political reasons. if it just a matter of putting people in your party in the jobs that is one thing. if it is firing prosecutors that are invstigating and prosecuting people in your party for crimes, that is something else
[07:22] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: Which isn't going to happen, of course.
[07:22] (compdoc) doesnt look good on a resume - "I was fired for not being tough on the democrates, blah blah"
[07:23] (JupaSaur) right compdoc
[07:23] (TheTailor) JupaSaur, that would n't make a difference, another attorney simply takes over.
[07:23] (TheTailor) JupaSaur, were any cases dismissed?
[07:23] (Lupine) compdoc: #1 these are not judges #2 these are political positions #3 just about every single president fires off US attorneys en mass
[07:23] (TheTailor) By the prosecution?
[07:23] (JupaSaur) it makes a difference if that stops the investigation and/or propssecution
[07:24] (TheTailor) US Attorneys sometimes "think" they are judges.
[07:24] (JupaSaur) that is obstruction of justice and interferring with a criminal investifation
[07:24] (Lupine) JupaSaur: do you remember Jefferson being caught on camera taking a 100k bribe and stuffing it in his freezer?
[07:24] (TheTailor) JupaSaur, no, it doesn't stop anything.
[07:24] (TheTailor) JupaSaur, were any cases dismissed by the prosecution?
[07:24] (JupaSaur) Lupine i cannot understand why jefferson has not been tried and convicted and sent to jail. something smells with that on
[07:24] (TheTailor) There isn't any obstruction of justice at all.
[07:25] (Lupine) JupaSaur: the US attorney overseeing it.. was one who was fired.
[07:25] (Lupine) So, i expect the new US attorney will see charges filed shortly.
[07:25] (TheTailor) If they have the goods on Jefferson they will go after him, if they don't, they won't.
[07:26] (Lupine) TheTailor: documented and video taped taking a bribe of marked bills, and then having those same bills found in his locker
[07:26] (Lupine) er.. freezer
[07:27] (TheTailor) If that's the case and the showing was legally obtained, he will be prosecuted, remember, we don't know all the details.
[07:27] (Lupine) TheTailor: sure, but my point is.. the US Attorney overseeing it.. was one who was fired.
[07:27] (TheTailor) Yeah, that's unusual.
[07:28] (Lupine) which is probably the REAL reason why the democrats are freaking out. Jefferson may be charged at any moment.
[07:28] (TheTailor) Well if he wasn't doing the job because of his political standing, then Bush is right to fire him.
[07:28] (compdoc) the dems are freaking out?
[07:28] (TheTailor) That sounds likely.
[07:28] (t0tgiglz) hey comp
[07:28] (compdoc) hey lady
[07:28] (compdoc) married yet?
[07:29] (t0tgiglz) nope 3 weeks and 2 days
[07:29] (TheTailor) compdoc, seems so, otherwise why would we be having this dog and pony show?
[07:29] (Lupine) Anyways, Gonzales should agree to appear before the committe.. show up, and give them all subpeona's from a special prosecuter.
[07:29] (t0tgiglz) hopefully ill be well enough to enjoy it
[07:29] (pilgrim`) well forget buying anything at Circuit City
[07:29] (TheTailor) why
[07:30] (pilgrim`) they just fired every employee who could tie their own shoes
[07:30] (t0tgiglz) yeah i heard they are having issues
[07:30] (Lupine) ?
[07:30] (t0tgiglz) and getting rid of ppl they have and hiring those that will take lower pay
[07:30] (rightooo) Waiting for President Bush to speak about Iraq
[07:30] (t0tgiglz) thats wrong
[07:30] (TheTailor) Circuit City is stupidly expensive anyway
[07:30] (compdoc) I think the administration isnt popular, and its being hit from all sides. The republicans did it with Clinton, and the dems are doing it now. same old same old
[07:30] (pilgrim`) they set a cap and anyone making over that cap; ergo, anyone whith a small to medium brain, was canned
[07:30] (t0tgiglz) i dont shop there anyway
[07:31] (pilgrim`) I usualy buy big stuff online any more
[07:31] (pilgrim`) the shops never have the obscure stuff I want
[07:32] (rightooo) pilgrim` what kinda stuff
[07:32] (TheTailor) JupaSaur, is the hearing on C-Span?
[07:32] (Harsen) A Swiss man has been jailed for 10 years after pleading guilty to charges of insulting the Thai king.
[07:32] (Harsen) Oliver Jufer, 57, was arrested last December after drunkenly spray-painting posters of King Bhumibol Adulyadej in the northern city of Chiang Mai.
[07:32] (SocketGre) what the hell? republicans! immature school children, Oprah and friends, lol
[07:32] (_Forbin) Great....another show trial by a gaggle of hysterical mentally ill senators
[07:32] * SocketGre pukes and leaves the channel
[07:32] (_Forbin) Thanks but Im watching south park instead
[07:32] (_Forbin) its funny
[07:32] (_Forbin) :)\
[07:33] (pilgrim`) well, I am awaiting a DVD player right now...
[07:33] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: wow, they actually went through with it.
[07:33] (rightooo) Bush: I will veto bill that restricts Iraq commanders
[07:33] (Aufk|aren) Harsen: I heard they were going to give him a telling off and eject him from the country.
[07:33] (Harsen) Jufer is believed to be the first foreigner ever imprisoned for the offence.
[07:33] (Harsen) Others have been charged in the past, but later expelled from the country rather than jailed.
[07:33] (Aufk|aren) The lese-majeste laws in Thailand are not applied so rigorously to foreigners.
[07:33] (Aufk|aren) They're usually just told to bugger off.
[07:33] (pilgrim`) but, the DVD player I wnat is somewhat obscure, discontinued and ComPUS had a couple left
[07:34] (pilgrim`) this http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=340292&pfp=EXTERNAL
[07:35] (pilgrim`) its the last of a series of products built on the syabas MyIHome platform
[07:36] (Sublimer-) compdoc: someone should tell congress.. there job isn't to spank the 1 1/2 year the bush admin has left.. maybe.. they should work on some stuff for the people.. like immigration reform..
[07:36] (compdoc) we need lots of things fixed
[07:37] (Sublimer-) bush has year and a half left.. who cares if he fired some fuckin attorneys.. get on with it..
[07:37] (Sublimer-) pass some fucking bills
[07:37] (Sublimer-) lets get some shit done here
[07:37] (Lupine) the thing is.. there is no question that he can fire them all if he wanted to.
[07:37] (compdoc) yeah, I havent seen a good reason to carry on that investigation
[07:37] (TheTailor) Sublimer, they were "swept" into office to waste time ans spend like , err, Republicans.
[07:39] (Sublimer-) thetailor: yah i know.. but this shit has to stop.. our gov works so fuckin inefficient
[07:39] (Sublimer-) thetailor: you know what i want.. fuckin term limits on congressman
[07:39] (Sublimer-) TheTailor: 8-12 years
[07:39] (TheTailor) Sublimer, I don't have an answer, liek the judge in a case I have, you can't make them act.
[07:40] (compdoc) being inefficient is a good thing - dont want things that affect our lives done too quickly
[07:40] (Sublimer-) too quickly!??!
[07:40] (Sublimer-) heh
[07:40] (TheTailor) compdoc, horseshit.
[07:40] (compdoc) well, dictators make very fast changes. being slow allows things to be thought thru, sometimes
[07:41] (Sublimer-) compdoc: i understand thinking stuff through
[07:41] (compdoc) its why we have multiple parties
[07:41] (Sublimer-) compdoc: lets take some time on some bills
[07:42] (pilgrim`) compdoc has apoint
[07:42] (Sublimer-) compdoc: why are we wasting time talking about a handful of attorneys who were fired by the president who appointed them
[07:42] (Sublimer-) good grief
[07:42] (TheTailor) compdoc, so if our government is efficient, you compare it to a dictator? One word, assinine.
[07:42] (pilgrim`) save us from "effcent: government
[07:42] (compdoc) Sublimer, I agree - like Ive said, I dont see a good reason to be wasting the time on it
[07:42] (TheTailor) I don't think he has a point at all.
[07:42] (TheTailor) Get something fucking DONE.
[07:42] (pilgrim`) TheTailor heck no, the most efficent and well oiled machien every developed with the tools of gov was the Nazi system
[07:43] (pilgrim`) the more efficent a system, the more power to do good, or, to doo the reverse
[07:43] (TheTailor) pilgrim`, well we aren't the Nazi's, and we aren't ruled by a dictator, so ...
[07:43] (Sublimer-) term limits
[07:43] (Sublimer-) would help that
[07:43] (Sublimer-) !
[07:43] (L0c0) ahahah through serendipity
[07:43] (pilgrim`) TheTailor THEY wern't the Nazis...at first. Just Germans
[07:43] * Lupine smartly marches up to pilgrim` and smacks him with a black leather glove.. PAPIEREN BITTE! SCHNELL! MACHT SCHNELL!
[07:43] (L0c0) more like through asskissing
[07:43] (compdoc) hmmm, look at it this way - if Bush had taken a bit more time and thought it thru, maybe we wouldnt be mired in Iraq
[07:43] (Sublimer-) congress needs term limits
[07:44] (TheTailor) pilgrim`, you know that doesn't mean we will become nazi's.
[07:44] (pilgrim`) what was scary about the Nazis is that it arose in an otherwise normal, rational western trained cultural and educated country...
[07:44] (Sublimer-) 12 years is a good term limit for senate/house.
[07:44] (Sublimer-) heh
[07:44] (pilgrim`) Tailor. Huey Long...It COULD happen here
[07:44] (compdoc) pilgrim`, ...the more power to do good, or, to do the reverse. exactly
[07:44] (L0c0) if its a benign issue, how was it so devistating?
[07:45] (Lupine) compdoc: more power rarely leads to good
[07:45] * DeLimmer is now known as del_away
[07:45] (Sublimer-) our gov isn't balanced.. say we wanted to put checks on congress.. who the hell does that?
[07:45] (Sublimer-) heh
[07:45] (Sublimer-) can i bring up a case to the supreme court asking for term limits on congress?
[07:45] (Sublimer-) heh
[07:45] (pilgrim`) Almost every person in power on gov is a lawyer. I dispise lawyers. and I certainly do not trust them to do good
[07:48] (pilgrim`) every problem we have in law was created by a lawyer. that is key to the problem; Archetects challenge problems presented by land, Doctors by nature and disease, almost every other human profession by what they face created externally. Lawyers otoh, create the problems they fight. it is a self feeding (and evil) little scam
[07:49] (compdoc) the law and lawyers can do good tho
[07:49] (compdoc) and they do
[07:49] (TheTailor) Where?
[07:49] (compdoc) its like a box of chocolates
[07:50] (Sublimer-) lawyers are good.. for about 5 years
[07:50] (Sublimer-) lawyers should have term limits
[07:50] (Sublimer-) HEH
[07:50] (Sublimer-) after 5 years... slaughter the lawyer.
[07:51] (TheTailor) "This bill does not raise taxes, this bill does stop the permanent tax cuts" - Carolyn Kirkpatrick (D) Detroit
[07:51] (TheTailor) NOw that is a typical leftist lie.
[07:51] (pilgrim`) compdoc and there actually were good Nazis too
[07:52] (compdoc) taxes are the biggest scam in this country
[07:52] (pilgrim`) what a jerk
[07:52] (cyberfrg) hah
[07:52] (pilgrim`) taxation is theft
[07:52] (cyberfrg) taxes, don't get me started on taxes
[07:52] (compdoc) heh
[07:52] (cyberfrg) all income taxes are illegal
[07:52] (pilgrim`) agreed
[07:52] (pilgrim`) but they own the army
[07:52] (pilgrim`) simple
[07:52] * Lupine has a funny video fo two good nazi ss soldiers
[07:52] (Sublimer-) oh
[07:52] (Sublimer-) yah
[07:52] (Sublimer-) don't get me started on taxes
[07:52] (td) Did anyone see Karl Rove rapping and dancing?
[07:53] (TheTailor) Why would anyone be interested in that?
[07:53] (td) go to 1min38secs into http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWRSgjDEQy0
[07:53] (Sublimer-) people wouldn't mind taxes.. so much.. if the gov could get its head out of its ass!
[07:53] (td) because its funny
[07:53] (Sublimer-) and spend the money correctly!
[07:53] (Sublimer-) good god
[07:53] (pilgrim`) Good question Tailor, but the media loved it
[07:53] (Sublimer-) they should put every congress man in a line... and shoot em all in the foot
[07:54] (Sublimer-) left
[07:54] (Sublimer-) first
[07:54] (pilgrim`) Sublimer I say this three times: Taxes are never levied, for the benifit of the taxed
[07:54] (rightooo) MC Rove .mwahahahahahahahaaaaa
[07:54] (compdoc) the thing is, the numbers of ppl paying taxes are increasing exponentially, mainly thru immigrants, but also by being born. The tax base increases, so why dont taxes stay the same or decrease? They are swimming in cash in Washington
[07:54] (TheTailor) HAHAHA, I just heard Bobby Scott (D) Virginia say "In fact, we were on the way to paying off the national debt"
[07:54] (pilgrim`) Sublimer too many lean left now
[07:54] (Aufk|aren) Britain is seeking a Security Council statement.
[07:55] (Aufk|aren) We want a UNSC statement "deploring" the Iranian detention. This could ratchet things up considerably. The Iranians have said they will put the sailors on trial if we go to the UN.
[07:55] (Sublimer-) oh
[07:55] (Sublimer-) yah
[07:55] (pilgrim`) compdoc yet Washington spends on average 30% MORE then it takes in hence the lack of value of your dollar
[07:55] (Sublimer-) we are going to war with iran
[07:55] (Sublimer-) you can just bet on it
[07:55] * Sublimer- puts up $100
[07:55] (TheTailor) Well it won't be much of a war.
[07:56] (TheTailor) Bombing
[07:56] (Sublimer-) yah
[07:56] (Sublimer-) all bombing
[07:56] (pilgrim`) Britian may issue an ultimatum of her own: "Our sailors, your capital" choose wisely
[07:56] (_Forbin) If they go on trial....the british will hit them hard
[07:56] (Sublimer-) pilgrim`: MAN.. that would ROCK
[07:56] (Sublimer-) pilgrim`: i wish we had a country with that much balls.
[07:56] (Sublimer-) heh
[07:57] (Aufk|aren) Gingrich had a good idea on what to do about the Iranian situation.
[07:57] (TheTailor) What did he say?
[07:57] (Aufk|aren) More than 40% of Iran's gas is imported.
[07:57] (pilgrim`) no, the library in Teharan is almost as good as that in Ishfahan. a collection of Persian classics going back 2k years. also the archetecture there; some is ancient and priceless. Yeah the people suck but leave the cools stuff
[07:57] (pilgrim`) Iran imports?
[07:57] (Aufk|aren) If we put a blockade on gas imports only, we could significantly dent the Iranian economy.
[07:58] (pilgrim`) thats...weird
[07:58] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, the peole in Iran would go nuts.
[07:58] (Aufk|aren) He suggested a blockade of their gas imports, or perhaps threaten to bomb their only gas-producing station
[07:58] (L0c0) Spending bill passes the Senate
[07:58] (L0c0) 51-47
[07:58] (Aufk|aren) TT: Yep, and hopefully they'd blame their own government for putting them in that situation and carrying out the reckless kidnap of British soldiers.
[07:58] (pilgrim`) Auf no
[07:58] (Sublimer-) L0c0: only to be veto'd
[07:58] (pilgrim`) they won';t
[07:58] (_Forbin) VETO
[07:58] (Aufk|aren) The Iranian economy is fragile at the moment. Inflation is getting out of control, particularly on bread and meat.
[07:58] (L0c0) Does Bush even know how to veto?
[07:58] (Sublimer-) L0c0: and go back into congress and do what
[07:59] (L0c0) his veto pen is as unused as his brain
[07:59] (Aufk|aren) If things get worse, people will turn on their own government.
[07:59] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, I think the people would do just that, they know their government blows chimps.
[07:59] (Sublimer-) L0c0: we'll see :)
[07:59] (TheTailor) L0c0 .. tell us all about it
[07:59] (starly) L0c0, you are devoiced (Requested by TheTailor )
[07:59] (Aufk|aren) TT: I think so too. I don't think the Iranian people are stupid enough to be conned into thinking this was all the result of imperialist WEstern aggression.
[07:59] (TheTailor) I shouldn't have voiced him, sorry.
[07:59] (Aufk|aren) TT: At some point they'll get sick of their government behaving like this.
[08:00] (Sublimer-) Aufk|aren: oh yah...
[08:00] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, yeah, but it will require a push, and it's time for that push.
[08:00] (Sublimer-) yah
[08:00] (Sublimer-) lets block the gas
[08:00] (TWThomas) pilgrim : we will bomb Iran if they don't stop this !
[08:00] (Aufk|aren) I never fully appreciated the degree to which DailyKos is full of loons.
[08:01] (Aufk|aren) In between the crap about the Iranian thing because a false flag op by Britain/America/Israel/Reptilians, there's this: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/3/27/83651/6231
[08:01] (Aufk|aren) Apparently the Iraq The Model blog is "psyops" on the behalf of the US Army.
[08:01] (Aufk|aren) (Iraq The Model is a blog by Iraqis living in Baghdad).
[08:02] (Aufk|aren) Clearly, they don't think the country is on the verge of armageddon and that it has a chance of becoming democratic and stable - they must be in the pay of the US military!
[08:05] (rightooo) The Dark Side
[08:05] (Sublimer-) Aufk|aren: uhh you listen to liberal media too much
[08:06] (Sublimer-) Aufk|aren: its not peachy in iraq.. but damn its not a total fuck up.
[08:06] (Sublimer-) heh
[08:07] (bill-) it's not good.
[08:07] (Aufk|aren) Bill!
[08:07] (Aufk|aren) Billy billson billington.
[08:08] (bill-) hi Auif
[08:11] (rond) not good () stop
[08:12] (rond) not good stop
[08:12] (bill-) right, it doesn't mean stop.
[08:12] (bill-) it does mean 1. look at why it's not good and understand what could've been done better (more troops from the outset for example) and 2. improve as able.
[08:13] (rond) yeah linus is here now we will finally have balance
[08:13] (LinusVanP) global warming cuasing sharks to beach themselves in UK... Brits stunned because theyve never seen anything with a full set of theeth before!
[08:14] (LinusVanP) teef
[08:14] (TWThomas) hahah
[08:14] (LinusVanP) fair imbalanced news?
[08:16] (JanetB) the UK not greatful enough, so they are not releasing the woman
[08:16] (LinusVanP) global warming leads to rash of topless sunbathers in florida! oh wait, those are fat canadian men
[08:17] (_Forbin) ahh come on.....florida is full of jewish new yorkers
[08:17] (_Forbin) Ever hear the saying you go so far south youre north again
[08:17] (LinusVanP) mr canuck, shave down that bacK!
[08:17] (_Forbin) :)\
[08:17] (LinusVanP) _Forbin, I've been proposing moving israel to cuba!
[08:18] (_Forbin) Oh sure like jews are going to pick sugar cane
[08:18] (_Forbin) :)\
[08:18] (LinusVanP) that's what they "hire" the cubans to do
[08:18] (_Forbin) They will supervize....lets be real
[08:18] (xnomar) that's sweet
[08:18] (_Forbin) baahha
[08:18] (cyberfrg) personally, i am very surpised this bill made it through the senate
[08:19] (_Forbin) Im not....washington is in a state of nonsense
[08:19] (_Forbin) Theyre completely whacked
[08:19] (LinusVanP) ricky ricardostein
[08:19] (compdoc) its fracking snowing - woke up to 6 inches of snow on the cars
[08:19] (LinusVanP) snowing?
[08:19] (LinusVanP) oh wait, its not even easter yet
[08:19] (cyberfrg) how dare they try and run the war
[08:20] (LinusVanP) that's not that unusual
[08:20] (cyberfrg) how DARE they
[08:20] (LinusVanP) cyberfr0g, and how dare they follow their predecessors and pack pork into it!
[08:20] (JanetB) well congress and the senate are not supposed to run the war
[08:20] (JanetB) that is not their job
[08:20] (LinusVanP) porky pigs, the lot of them
[08:20] (cyberfrg) and yet they are voted into office every single year
[08:21] (cyberfrg) the same bastards
[08:21] (cyberfrg) lying bastards
[08:21] (LinusVanP) we need people like jim webb and bill richardson to open fire
[08:21] (JanetB) no.. new ones got voted in thats how the dems got control
[08:21] (cyberfrg) ok then let me rephrase
[08:21] (LinusVanP) JanetB, does it really matter when it comes to pork though?
[08:22] (cyberfrg) people keep voting in the same bullshit every election
[08:22] (JupaSaur) wrong more or less JanetB. the congress has the ultimate control and responsibility over war. i agree the congress should not micromanage a war. but setting up rules of engagement, deciding when to start and stop a war, allocating funds for a war all are well within the provence of congress
[08:22] (LinusVanP) they're all sheriff nottinghams
[08:22] (JanetB) LinusVanP.. well the reps never put pork on the military spending bill
[08:22] (LinusVanP) I stated that
[08:22] (LinusVanP) "peanut storage"
[08:23] (LinusVanP) $345M or some shit
[08:23] (JanetB) 11 million for democrate conventions
[08:23] (JupaSaur) JanetB wrong again JanetB the repubs put plenty of pork in the iraq and afgahniston war funding. things like lucrative no-bid contract funding so that halibuton could make billions on the backs or our killed and wounded troops
[08:23] (LinusVanP) cmon, those of you on the gop side of the aisle have got to love sen webb packin' heat, even if by proxy ;)
[08:24] (rond) when you have been complaining about a "WAR" and now you don't because you get to spend some extra money for your district
[08:24] (rond) yeah it matters
[08:24] (rond) and quite a bit
[08:24] (JanetB) oh but they have no bid contracts on all contratcts that are pre approved for goverment contracts
[08:24] (LinusVanP) Halliburton bacon left a Dubai after-taste :)
[08:24] (JanetB) thats nothing new, cause it takes about 2 years to get approved for goverment contracts
[08:25] (rond) But linus won't address that fact
[08:25] (Aufk|aren) Discussions are now taking place at the UN Security Council. Britain is trying to get a resolution passed that condemns Iran for kidnapping its soldiers from Iraqi waters, and "deplores" their continuing detention.
[08:25] (LinusVanP) what fact?
[08:25] (LinusVanP) I thought I WAS complaining about it
[08:25] (Aufk|aren) Iran will throw a hissy fit. It has already said it would put our sailors on trial if we went to the UN.
[08:26] (LinusVanP) it doesn't seem to matter who's in charge, pork is here to stay
[08:26] (rond) [10:18] (+LinusVanP) cyberfr0g, and how dare they follow their predecessors and pack pork into it! (--- that is not a complaint
[08:26] (LinusVanP) it was tongue in cheek sarcasm
[08:26] (LinusVanP) and I'm not happy about nit
[08:26] (LinusVanP) it
[08:27] (rond) it was a defense of the dems doing it
[08:27] (LinusVanP) rond, excuse me, but no it wasn't
[08:27] (rond) and yes there is room for your not likeing it
[08:27] (LinusVanP) it pisses me off that they are no different
[08:27] (LinusVanP) net result: taxpayers screwed again
[08:27] (rond) well the bigger problem is as I stated it
[08:28] (LinusVanP) gop leaders, dem leaders, what difference does it make? they "buy" votes of key reps by packing pork into a bill
[08:29] (LinusVanP) and it's disgusting
[08:29] (JanetB) well time for work, bye all
[08:29] (rond) yes that is certainly a problem
[08:29] (LinusVanP) cya JanetB
[08:29] (rond) but its more disgusting to act so morally indignent about the iraq war
[08:29] (rond) lambast the president
[08:29] (rond) then vote for the war because you get to add pork
[08:30] (LinusVanP) rond, I'm disappointed that this bill is the best the dems can come up with as their way to end this war
[08:30] (rond) pretend like you are "for" the troops
[08:30] (rond) all the while continuing to jeapordize the lives or our troops all over the world
[08:30] (TheTailor) I'm disappointed the Democrats think they can end the war this way, if they want to end it, defund it.
[08:31] (LinusVanP) nobody seems to know how to come up with an exit strategy to this "new" war in iraq, different than the initial war that's for sure
[08:31] (rond) there is only one exit stratagy
[08:31] (DarthBurg) is an exit strategy required?
[08:31] (rond) that is to win
[08:31] (TheTailor) The congress can't get it's shit together on the best of days, what the fuck do they think they know about running a war?
[08:31] (rond) and to win requires the support of all the US
[08:31] (LinusVanP) i'm not even sure what "team" we're backing anymore
[08:32] (DarthBurg) just the way the media wants ya
[08:32] (TheTailor) LinusVanP, wtf are you alking about, this "new" war in Iraq?
[08:32] (TheTailor) That's stupid.
[08:32] (rond) Linus you have never been a part of the "Team"
[08:32] (LinusVanP) the war for regime change we won, and we ensured no wmd's
[08:32] (rond) not since I have seen you on here for 2 years
[08:32] (LinusVanP) this war between factions isn't the war we originally entered into
[08:33] (TheTailor) LinusVanP, you are off on a stupid tangent
[08:33] (TheTailor) Setting up a new government was always part of this, and you know it, you are just making shit up now.
[08:33] (LinusVanP) people on both sides of the aisle have said this is a different war now
[08:33] (TheTailor) LinusVanP, is that the new bay area line of horseshit?
[08:34] (TheTailor) No they haven't
[08:34] (TheTailor) Who said that?
[08:34] (TheTailor) "new" war, how braindead is that
[08:34] (rond) and from what I can tell, maybe your rhetoric is different in real life but from what I have seen on here, your rhetoric is the same exact rhetoric I am pissed about from the dem leadership that absolutly undermines our efforts to "Win"
[08:35] (LinusVanP) TheTailor, ok, I'm open to trying to come to terms with this. What would you like to see as a sign of victory at this point?
[08:35] (rightooo) i have heard there is a new general in Iraq and that there are some successes reported
[08:36] (LinusVanP) I mean we deposed of saddam, we oversaw elections... is there any end that will please all or even most of the factions?
[08:37] (rond) Linus from what I can tell from reading, all fighters on the other side always fight way past the realization they have lost
[08:37] (LinusVanP) rond, is malaki govt who we really want to back?
[08:37] (rond) I don't know
[08:38] (Aufk|aren) LinusVanP: Considering it's the democratically elected, legitimate and internationally-recognised government then yes.
[08:38] (TheTailor) LinusVanP, I'm not on the ground there and you might want to remember you aren't either. We are it seems successfully rooting out the assholes in Sadr City and taking their explosives away, bombings are down 25% and more Iraqis are stepping up, THAT is what is the misson.
[08:38] (rightooo) LinusVanP ...i think many see the end of the war when there is peace ... but im afraid whats causing trouble there is that there are non Iraqi Forces on the ground in Iraq ...as long as this is the case im afarid there wont be peace there
[08:38] (LinusVanP) neither do I... the original moderate govt that was in place before the national elections is long gone, I don't see it coming back any time in the near future
[08:39] (TheTailor) LinusVanP, yes. Malaki and his government are cooperating.
[08:39] (Aufk|aren) LinusVanP: The current government are not immoderate. What would make you suppose that?
[08:39] (TheTailor) rightooo you jackass, there are 100's of 1000's of Iraqi troops in the operation.
[08:40] (TheTailor) Good grief.
[08:40] (rightooo) TheTailor ... are u talking to yourself?
[08:40] (flm) freetrad3 no body has the balls to do anything.. except the Muslim fascist /
[08:40] (Sbrns4GW) rightoo: http://www.nypost.com/seven/03202007/postopinion/opedcolumnists/why_its_working_____opedcolumnists_gordon_cucullu.htm?page=0
[08:40] (starly) rightooo, you are devoiced (Requested by TheTailor - Reason: You need a time out. )
[08:40] (flm) rightooo sometimes in here that is what it seems like .
[08:41] (LinusVanP) the iraqi troops/police are infiltrated by extremists, its not easy to vet them out
[08:41] (Sbrns4GW) the army is much better than the police
[08:41] (LinusVanP) true
[08:42] (flm) LinusvanP yea, and it is a good reason for the week to give up !
[08:42] (Sbrns4GW) Iraqi police has serious issues. The iraqi army, by and large, performs rather well, all things considered
[08:42] (TheTailor) LinusVanP, how would you know that? And what % of Iraqi troops and police are "infiltrators"?
[08:42] (cyberfrg) so now iran is backpedeling on releasing the female sailor?!
[08:42] (cyberfrg) lol!
[08:42] (Sbrns4GW) when did UK go all wobbly on us?
[08:42] (Sbrns4GW) anyone remember the Falklands?
[08:43] (Aufk|aren) We didn't go wobbly. It's because we weren't wobbly that they said they are reneging on their promise to hand back the sailor.
[08:43] (flm) We have right here in thge USA some Bad Cops.. can we just give up and get rid of them all ??
[08:43] (Aufk|aren) They're getting pissy because we released evidence publicly showing they were in Iraqi territory.
[08:43] (f1re) yo u can kick a verse, fuck it, ill let you kick em all
[08:43] (Sbrns4GW) Aufk|aren: i mean in letting them get captured to begin with, for one, and in the fairly tempered response thus far. Where's the righteous indignation?
[08:43] (f1re) ill even wait for the studio audience to applaud
[08:43] (f1re) then ya get bombed
[08:43] (flm) Sbrns when the Socialist took over.
[08:43] (f1re) live in fron of ya own sitcom
[08:44] (LinusVanP) flm, very true, and they are corrupt and send innocent people into the justice system
[08:44] (LinusVanP) but they aren't killing families in middle of night
[08:44] (Sbrns4GW) Aufk|aren: I was hoping for a British response, that would make them tremble, rather than one that made them "pissy"
[08:44] (Aufk|aren) Sbrns4GW: Well, there has been righteous indignation. Just look at the statements coming out of the Foreign Office. They were captured because they were in Iraqi territory and were boarding a vessel as part of their UN mandate. They were surrounded by extremely heavily armed boats, and any attempt to resist would have led to a severe loss of life.
[08:45] (flm) LinusVanP BRB, a child wants to wach the Hulk !
[08:45] (Aufk|aren) Sbrns4GW: What do you suggest, bearing in mind the top priority is getting our sailors back?
[08:45] (Sbrns4GW) Aufk|aren: what was the frigate that the RIB's were launced from? HMS Cornwell or something? Couldn't it have blown the iranians to bits?
[08:45] (Aufk|aren) HMS Cornwall, right.
[08:45] (Sbrns4GW) Aufk|aren: I can't believe they allowed themselves to be captured to begin with. I think they should've never let it happen.
[08:45] (LinusVanP) Sbrns4GW, the US was in same position when china captured those aboard the downed surveillance plane a few yrs ago
[08:45] (Aufk|aren) Sbrns4GW: I don't know personally, I wasn't there. My guess is that it might not have been able to do so without endangering the sailors, or because our RoE don't include getting into a conflict like that with Iran.
[08:45] (LinusVanP) you have to tiptoe a bit through these things
[08:46] (Sbrns4GW) Aufk|aren: you're right, now the UK is in quite a pickle about what to do now. No real options.
[08:46] (TheTailor) I think it the Cornwall would have blown one Iranian boat out of the water it would have been over, the rest would have run like scared rabbits.
[08:46] (Sbrns4GW) Aufk|aren: RoE should include defending yourself from abduction attempts, whether it be iranians, Al Qaeda, or Baathists.
[08:46] (LinusVanP) and israel, by being aggressive, never got those two kidnapped zoldiers back from Hezbollah
[08:46] (TheTailor) Of course we will never know now.
[08:46] (Aufk|aren) Sbrns4GW: Right. We're going to the UN this afternoon to get a statement from the UNSC. We've suspended official relations (except for diplomatic talk). And we're going to talk to our squishy friends in the EU about putting economic and political pressure on Iran.
[08:46] (Aufk|aren) Sbrns4GW: From there, it's difficult to imagine a scenario of military action that would end in an acceptable way for Britain.
[08:47] (TheTailor) LinusVanP, well at least they got something for the two soldiers kidnapped.
[08:47] (Aufk|aren) i.e., with our sailors alive, and not in a situation where the Iranians are going to make life extraordinarily difficult for us in southern Iraq.
[08:47] (Sbrns4GW) Aufk|aren: I agree. If the UK starts bombing, the iranians might just kill the 15
[08:47] (cyberfrg) and would cause a war
[08:47] (TheTailor) LinusVanP, or did you think Hezballah was going to release them?
[08:47] (LinusVanP) likely no
[08:47] (cyberfrg) iran needs to be taught a lessson
[08:47] * Sbrns4GW was happy to hear that if it had been US soldiers they wouldn't have given up without a fight.
[08:48] (cyberfrg) they can't just kidnap citiznes of other countries
[08:48] (cyberfrg) and expect everyone to cower
[08:48] (Aufk|aren) Sbrns4GW: I think that if all else fails, we might consider a blockade of some sort on Iranian imports. Gingrich suggested natural gas (the Iranians import over 40% of theirs).
[08:48] (Aufk|aren) Sbrns4GW: If the British sailors had put up a fight, they would have been killed. They were in two RIBs and were surrounded by six heavily armed boats.
[08:48] (Sbrns4GW) Aufk|aren: i like that
[08:48] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, the Iranians import half their gasoline, I think that's what Newt is talking about.
[08:49] (Aufk|aren) TT: Right, sorry, not natural gas.
[08:49] (LinusVanP) I would bet that Iran had some ships in the vicinity that were likely smuggling arms into southern iraq, and out of paranoia decided to put the british ship and its crew out of commission
[08:49] (Aufk|aren) Sbrns4GW: It's clear that after this our operating procedures need to be changed. We can't have a situation where our boats can even be surrounded like that.
[08:49] (Sbrns4GW) Aufk|aren: I don't know if the Iranians would've had the stomach for a fight. Those 6 boats would've been floating debris pretty quickly. Probably would've been some loss of life, but it would've deterred Iran from doing this sort of thing in the future.
[08:49] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, hell, bomb their refinery for gasoline and then you don't have to go through a blockade.
[08:49] (Aufk|aren) As for the situation as it actually occurred, I don't know that we could have done that much without getting our sialors killed.
[08:49] (TheTailor) Half of it will be gone
[08:50] (LinusVanP) iran's actions so stupid, even putin is distancing himself!
[08:50] (LinusVanP) that takes effort
[08:50] (Aufk|aren) TT: The problem is that it isn't something we can unbomb, so we don't really have any incentive for the Iranians to release the prisoners. If we bomb their gas refinery, they might just execute them.
[08:50] (Aufk|aren) The threat of bombing might be better.
[08:50] (Sbrns4GW) LinusVanP: that's the bright side I see here. The UK can pressure the "squishy" europeans to firm up and oppose iran
[08:50] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, they might just execute them anyway.
[08:50] (LinusVanP) putin isn't squishy
[08:50] (BC313) Yeah....since threats have worked so well on Iran up till now
[08:50] (LinusVanP) nor pro-EU
[08:50] (VT) Aufk|aren: yeah, and they could just do that any moment now.
[08:51] (flm) TheTailor thats what Muslims do to infidales !
[08:51] (Aufk|aren) BC313: The Iranians are vulnerable economically. Any further economic woes might make the position of the Iranian leadership unstable.
[08:51] (Sbrns4GW) Aufk|aren: I think the Brits are playing their cards right to really build a strong international consensus against Iran, which helps the US achieve it's goals too.
[08:51] (LinusVanP) but it could unify NATO's stance on iran
[08:51] (Aufk|aren) That would be a strong incentive to not being twats.
[08:51] (Sbrns4GW) LinusVanP: yup.
[08:51] (gopp) hey LinusVanP do you know about c++
[08:51] (Aufk|aren) Sbrns4GW: Exactly. Apparently Khomeini doesn't mind doing stuff like this as long as he has friends, but gets uneasy when Iran is isolated.
[08:51] (Aufk|aren) If our European friends help, and we get some action in the UN, he might feel that he has no choice but to release them.
[08:52] (LinusVanP) gopp, is it the same as b double flat ? ;)
[08:52] (Sublimer-) Aufk|aren: uh.. you act like this man.. things rationally.
[08:52] (Sbrns4GW) Aufk|aren: do you think they will help?
[08:52] (Sublimer-) Aufk|aren: thinks
[08:52] (flm) LinusvanP Nato is a Joke,,, If the USA doesn't act no,one does !
[08:52] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, you better hope France and Germany aren't doing business with Iran.
[08:52] (BC313) What evidence do we have that Iran gives a rats ass about what the UN says?
[08:52] (Sublimer-) exactly
[08:52] (Sublimer-) all u damn liberals.. think everyone thinks like us
[08:52] (Sublimer-) ahaha
[08:52] (Sublimer-) damn
[08:53] (Aufk|aren) Well, the problem is our European friends. They've said the right things, particularly the Germans who are the EU presidents at the moment.
[08:53] (Sublimer-) this guy has given no evidence of rational western thought.
[08:53] (LinusVanP) some nato countries are on front lines in Afghanistan
[08:53] (flm) Aufk|aren and The UN is another big Joke !
[08:53] (DarthBurg) donkeys do not think, that would be discriminatory
[08:53] (LinusVanP) others cowering
[08:53] (Aufk|aren) The question is whether they will translate that into economic action.
[08:53] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, yeah, what does that mean?
[08:53] (flm) The UN wants to p[ass Law to Tax the US citizans !!
[08:53] (TheTailor) Exactly, the Germans have gone the way of the French, backbone removal.
[08:53] (Aufk|aren) TT: Well, they need to threaten to cut off trading with Iran. They need to also threaten to cut if off diplomatically, and increase the isolation.
[08:53] (gopp) any c++ programers in the house
[08:54] (Sbrns4GW) Aufk|aren: The EU seems nervous to act at all. They're fine making pronouncements and statements on things, but when it comes time for action of almost any sort, the EU doesn't seem to have the stomach for it.
[08:54] (BC313) This calls for an ultimatum followed by a swift and decisive military response
[08:54] (Aufk|aren) I think that this sort of thing will start coming up in the next few days if the sailors aren't released.
[08:54] (gopp) I got one question
[08:54] (Aufk|aren) Which it looks at the moment they wont be.
[08:54] (BC313) This is the only actions that the islamofacists understand
[08:54] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, well good luck with that, I frankly don't think Germany and France have the spine for that.
[08:54] (Sbrns4GW) Aufk|aren: do you think the Germans will support sanctions?
[08:54] (Aufk|aren) Sbrns4GW: Well, precisely.
[08:54] (LinusVanP) I think some in the EU wouldnt mind terribly if Iran switched over to the euro as its monetary unit for oil sales
[08:55] (Aufk|aren) TT: I don't think it has anything to do with spine. It's economic self-interest.
[08:55] (Sbrns4GW) Aufk|aren: glad to see that's what all the high-minded platitutes boil down to
[08:55] (Aufk|aren) Britain needs to make a case with them that the money they earn from Iran, which probably isn't that great comparatively speaking, is worth less than having a pissed off Britain.
[08:55] (TheTailor) Aufk|aren, of course it is, they don't have the spine to upset the business people in their countries.
[08:55] (flm) Any US citizans , Need to turne on C-Span and see how the Socialist are trying to raise taxes now,, The Largest Tax increes in the US history !!
[08:55] (Aufk|aren) TT: Well yes, I suppose put in that way I see what you mean.
[08:56] (BC313) FLM....yup....the work of the liberals again
[08:56] (flm) Government /The Socialist Never will get enough !!
[08:56] (DarthBurg) totalitarian GOV growth
[08:56] * asd32dy32 is now known as syoung333
[08:56] (Sbrns4GW) Aufk|aren: this is turning into a much bigger deal than the last time the Iranians kidnapped some brits
[08:56] (flm) BC313 call them what they are, ( S O C I A L I S T ) !
[08:56] (TheTailor) flm, they are not raising taxes! They are killing the tax cuts for the richest one percent!
[08:57] (BC313) FLM....agreed
[08:57] (Sbrns4GW) TheTailor: it is an increase in taxes
[08:57] (BC313) THETAIL...uh....you need to research this further
[08:57] (TheTailor) Sbrns4GW, sarcasm.
[08:57] (TheTailor) Of course they are raising taxes.
[08:57] (LinusVanP) the brits haven't adopted the euro, iran has threatened to drop USD as standard for oil sales, those countries in EU using the euro stand to benefit from such a move by iran
[08:57] (Aufk|aren) Sbrns4GW: Well, relations are considerably worse this time. The nuclear issue for one, but also because the British are starting to talk about the degree to which Iran is responsible for problems in the south of Iraq. On top of that, the snatch this time was far more flagrant - it had nothing to with territory, it was a pre-planned operation to snatch British troops.
[08:58] (flm) TheTailer is that not raising taxes ?? if they take away any tax cut you may get would you not have to pay more? and would you not call that Raising your taxes ??
[08:58] (LinusVanP) iran is treading dangerously, but they also have some method to their madness
[08:58] (TheTailor) LinusVanP, so what, let Iran use the Euro, who cares.
[08:58] (bi0h4z4rd) nice topic... very original (/sarcasm)
[08:58] (TheTailor) LinusVanP, did you think US dollars were the only currency used?
[08:58] (BC313) THETAIL....they are also raising the marginal rates....re-instituting the marriage penalty.....raising the Death Tax.....reducing the child credit from $1000 to $500.....and on and on and on
[08:58] (FreeTrad3) Abusive Domain or User
[08:58] (Aufk|aren) Sbrns4GW: The longer this goes on, the nastier the confrontation will be. Options on both sides narrow by the day.
[08:58] (Sublimer-) bi0h4z4rd: hey.. and we will do it.
[08:59] (Sublimer-) bi0h4z4rd: how you like that? does it make you wanna get up and cry?
[08:59] (Sublimer-) heh
[08:59] (TheTailor) BC313, yes, and more taxes are coming.
[08:59] (bi0h4z4rd) no
[08:59] (Sbrns4GW) Aufk|aren: seems like a stupid move on the part of the Iranians: far more likely to unite the world against them than achieve anything positive for them.
[09:00] (LinusVanP) Aufk|aren, I think iran is playing this up like a kim jong il stunt, and eventually will no longer have political use for the UK soldiers
[09:00] (Aufk|aren) Sbrns4GW: Exactly, They clearly thought they could get something out of it, but I think eventually the realisation will dawn that this sort of crap only confirms their image as a dangerous rogue state.
[09:00] (flm) I will never understand the Socialist Mentality,, If they make you pay more by taking away your deduction, That is not an increese,, and If they let you Not pay taxes on money you spent on a business expence it is a guift !!
[09:00] (LinusVanP) and will quietly release them, claiming some sort of victory
[09:00] (VT) The United States is undertaxed, is the war yealp of every socialist. Just as soon as the Dems get back in power what do they do?
[09:00] (Aufk|aren) No doubt.
[09:01] (Sublimer-) VT: raise taxes.
[09:01] (Sublimer-) HEH
[09:01] (Sbrns4GW) Aufk|aren: i guess I could understand them wanting to swap prisoners for the Revolutionary Guard members, but I don't see the US as likely to accept that. I do see it likely that they get our standard line: "we do not negotiate with terrorists"
[09:01] (Aufk|aren) Once they've released them, we ought to destroy the Iranian Revolutionary Guard navy and drop a bomb on the house of its leader (who had just a few days before this thing happened threatened to kidnap some "blue-eyed blonde-haired soldiers and feed them to [their] fighting cocks.")
[09:01] (flm) Sublijmer,, What does "HEH " mean ?
[09:02] (Aufk|aren) Sbrns4GW: Exactly. Britain wont ask the US, and the US wont do it. Which is as it should be. We don't negotiate with terrorists.
[09:02] (LinusVanP) the question remains: who are the fighting cocks? ;)
[09:02] (Sublimer-) flm: its kinda like haha.. but short..
[09:02] (Aufk|aren) LinusVanP: More like mildly belligerent little peckers.
[09:02] (BC313) Cant wait to see how the MSM plays this blooming demrat scandal....RE: Diane Feinstein
[09:02] (flm) Sublimer thank you .
[09:02] (LinusVanP) lol
[09:02] (Sublimer-) :P
[09:02] (Sbrns4GW) Aufk|aren: unfortunate for the 15, but by far the best possibility when dealing with these types.
[09:03] (TheTailor) BC313, what scandel is that?
[09:03] (Sbrns4GW) Aufk|aren: very few countries in the world subscribe to that philosophy now though. Too bad.
[09:03] (TheTailor) err, scandal
[09:03] (Sublimer-) flm: i kinda overuse it.. sorta habit now.. but its a way for me to lighten up what i say.
[09:03] (LinusVanP) scandal sandals, on sale at kmart
[09:03] (LinusVanP) martha stewart collection
[09:03] (LinusVanP) :)
[09:04] (Aufk|aren) Apparently Britain is pushing for a UN Security Council resolution stating that the British troops were in Iraqi territory as part of their UN mandate, that their detention is "deplorable" and that they must release them immediately.
[09:04] (Aufk|aren) The Chinese and Russians better not be tossers about this.
[09:04] (Aufk|aren) Or the French.
[09:04] (BC313) THETAIL.....Feinstein resigned from her Military Appropriations Comittee chirmanship.....seems she sent hundreds of millions of dollars in contracts to her husbands companies
[09:04] (Sbrns4GW) tossers? that's a new one on me.
[09:04] (Aufk|aren) It's British slang, innit.
[09:04] (FreeTrad3) Morning.
[09:04] (FreeTrad3) TOssers ?
[09:05] (US-Male) you bloody tossahs!
[09:05] (FreeTrad3) Thats an old saying in maybe several slang or dialects.
[09:05] (LinusVanP) the russians have suspended (supposedly) their assistance in the construction of an iranian nuclear plant; russia's official line being that iran is behind on payments
[09:05] (US-Male) it's like a wanker
[09:05] (US-Male) jerkoff
[09:05] (FreeTrad3) In the hood a tosser is a woman you would sleep with but not love to put it bluntly..
[09:05] (FreeTrad3) Morning US
[09:05] (LinusVanP) so I think this dumbass move even has putin thinking twice
[09:05] (FreeTrad3) Muy man
[09:05] (US-Male) hiyas FT
[09:06] (FreeTrad3) My man not Muy man ;)
[09:06] (US-Male) muy is right !
[09:06] (US-Male) ;p
[09:06] (FreeTrad3) a tosser is a ho. a Beyaatch..
[09:06] (FreeTrad3) hehe
[09:06] (LinusVanP) or make love to but not spend the night, due to restless leg syndrome? ;)
[09:06] (FreeTrad3) Isnt it british slang too ?
[09:06] (Sublimer-) LinusVanP: which is crazy.. cause putin would get in bed with satin himself.
[09:06] (Sublimer-) heh
[09:06] (FreeTrad3) Or Irish ?
[09:06] (bi0h4z4rd) Topic, someone put a comma after Iran and an apostrophe (') after we but before ll
[09:06] (US-Male) Aufk|aren isn't a tosser the same as a wanker ?
[09:07] (Aufk|aren) US-Male: Yep.
[09:07] (US-Male) in the UK I mean
[09:07] (LinusVanP) if you mean satan, he already shares a flat
[09:07] (FreeTrad3) Man, When I hear Scottish common people talk, I can not understand their english.
[09:07] (FreeTrad3) Its very very hard.
[09:07] (flm) IF you go to McDonalds and your happy meal Now cost $1.00 more and you ask " why the increase in price?" and the nice young latina behing the counter says, " OH it is not an increase, We just don't include the Frys in the price anymore,, and They cost you a
[09:07] (Sublimer-) LinusVanP: yah
[09:07] (FreeTrad3) They say shit like Shat..
[09:07] (Aufk|aren) Both, literally, mean masturbation. But they're used in all contexts as a general idiot, dislikable, etc.
[09:07] (Sublimer-) ohh
[09:07] (Aufk|aren) In Australia it's the same, except has a subtle overtone of 'pretentious' too.
[09:07] (Sublimer-) slight problem with ethanol..
[09:07] (US-Male) yeah
[09:07] (FreeTrad3) I thought a wanker was like a schmuck.
[09:07] (FreeTrad3) A penis
[09:07] (Sublimer-) you need corn/sugar right
[09:07] (Sublimer-) well damn
[09:08] (flm) Would you call that raising the price ?? YES !
[09:08] (FreeTrad3) hahaha
[09:08] (Aufk|aren) FT: Well, it comes from the verb 'wank,' which means masturbate.
[09:08] (US-Male) it's just like we might call someone a "sdumb jerkoff"
[09:08] (Aufk|aren) FT: So a wanker is a masturbator. ;)
[09:08] (LinusVanP) rumor has it that Putin has offered sanctuary to all ex-priests not yet imprisoned!
[09:08] (US-Male) err sdumb=dumb
[09:08] (LinusVanP) to run russian orphanages :)
[09:08] (Sublimer-) LinusVanP: ouch.
[09:08] (Aufk|aren) USM: Exactly. It's sort of like "jerkoff." I think it would be seen as mildly more offensive though.
[09:08] (FreeTrad3) Well they all refer to a derogatory term about someone, often used amongst friends in jest.
[09:08] (flm) Democrats/Socia;list are going to rais Taxes !!!!
[09:08] (FreeTrad3) Except for tosser in Afro American slang.
[09:08] (Aufk|aren) I think you can say jerkoff pre-watershed in America, whereas wanker/tosser is extremely sparing if at all pre-watershed in Britain.
[09:09] (FreeTrad3) That means ho..
[09:09] (FreeTrad3) Which means whore
[09:09] (FreeTrad3) ;)
[09:09] (TheTailor) FT, from what I read 'tosser' is the same as "wanker"
[09:09] (flm) Good day ,, Jam Time !!
[09:09] (Sbrns4GW) so are the french going to be wankers?
[09:09] (LinusVanP) what is "pre-watershed?"
[09:09] (FreeTrad3) TT, Not in African American slang.
[09:09] (Aufk|aren) Sbrns4GW: Well, even if they do what we want they're still wankers.
[09:09] (TheTailor) oh
[09:09] (FreeTrad3) IN British yes.
[09:09] (Aufk|aren) Sbrns4GW: But actually, on this issue, I think they'll shape up.
[09:09] (Aufk|aren) Sbrns4GW: The problem is Russia or China.
[09:10] (Aufk|aren) The French have been on board so far on the Iranian nuclear file. They ought to fall in on this one too. I hope, at least.
[09:10] (LinusVanP) I thought a tosser was the guy who prepared a caesar salad at your table
[09:10] (Aufk|aren) Right...
[09:10] (US-Male) LinusVanP: with special dressing
[09:10] (flm) Sbrns Using that languege you would call the Democrats the Porkers,, Because they are going to pork us for sure !!!
[09:10] (Aufk|aren) The people who are opposing it are Russia, Qatar and the Congo.
[09:10] (LinusVanP) yum
[09:10] (Aufk|aren) They think the statement goes too far.
[09:10] (US-Male) lol
[09:10] (Aufk|aren) Russia, Qater and the Congo.
[09:10] (LinusVanP) sticks to your ribs
[09:10] (US-Male) LinusVanP: chunky
[09:10] (Aufk|aren) Russia has a veto, Qatar and the Congo are non-permanent members.
[09:10] (LinusVanP) who said a salad can't be a meal?
[09:10] (Aufk|aren) Qatar*
[09:10] (FreeTrad3) Auf, THats interesting that they are not going to release the woman now.
[09:11] (Aufk|aren) FT: Yep. Apparently they didn't like us issuing public proof that they were in Iraqi territory.
[09:11] (flm) Sbrns without greesing us up first !!
[09:11] (FreeTrad3) And there reason ? Britain didnt show proper appreciation for thier kidnapping of her.
[09:11] (LinusVanP) See Cher Salad
[09:11] (BC313) Since when does a country need UN approval to defend itself?
[09:11] (Aufk|aren) They embarrassed themselves by releasing coordinates "proving" they were in Iranian territory...
[09:11] (FreeTrad3) Auf, They issued it too.
[09:11] (Aufk|aren) ... then realised the coordinates actually ended up in Iraqi territory.
[09:11] (Aufk|aren) Complete idiots.
[09:11] (Aufk|aren) So they put out another set of coordinates.
[09:11] (FreeTrad3) THen Iran first announced the coordinates it was Iraqi Water.
[09:11] (FreeTrad3) They then came back and changed the coordinates
[09:11] (US-Male) you know the US Congress dicking around about IRaq, could not have happened at a worse time
[09:12] (Aufk|aren) FT: The difference is that we have proof, and they're randomly announcnig coordinates. The first they gave would have backed up our case, not theirs.
[09:12] (Aufk|aren) They have no idea what they're doing.
[09:12] (US-Male) IF Bush wil be de-funded in Iraq, how can Iran take him seriously ?
[09:12] (Sublimer-) damn persians
[09:12] (Sublimer-) :P
[09:12] (FreeTrad3) Yes if you ask me its piracy, kidnapping an international crime by a state.
[09:12] (BC313) US-MALE....its not "the congress"....its the Demrats
[09:12] (FreeTrad3) And if wasnt because I care about the 15 captured, I would take military action.
[09:12] (FreeTrad3) Of some sort.
[09:12] (Aufk|aren) Britain should stop getting into the territory debate. This whole thing has nothing to do with it. It's because they decided to kidnap the British soldiers long before it took place.
[09:12] (FreeTrad3) Even like whats being discussed a blockade
[09:12] (US-Male) BC313: well, both houses votes for it, although by slim margins
[09:13] (FreeTrad3) discussed, a blockade.
[09:13] (Aufk|aren) The Iranians are right now showing footage of the kidnap of the British sailors.
[09:13] (FreeTrad3) Sometimes grammar matters and punctuation on irc.
[09:13] (Aufk|aren) These people have no shame.
[09:13] (FreeTrad3) Sometimes it aint.
[09:13] (BC313) US-MALE....hom many repubs in the Senate supported it?
[09:13] (US-Male) BC313: and at least 1-2 Republicans who shoud have stook their ground given all of what's going on
[09:13] (FreeTrad3) Auf, What more proof does the world need ?
[09:13] (US-Male) *should have stood
[09:13] (FreeTrad3) Of course the far left I am sure believes Iran.
[09:13] (Aufk|aren) FT: Well, exactly.
[09:13] (FreeTrad3) Trusts Iran over the USA and the UK..
[09:14] (Aufk|aren) The only people that are supporting Iran's case right now are Iranian apologists.
[09:14] (Aufk|aren) Like td, in here, earlier.
[09:14] (FreeTrad3) If the left was Iranian they would trust the USA and the UK over Iranian.
[09:14] (Sublimer-) lol
[09:14] (Sbrns4GW) FreeTrad3: lol
[09:14] (FreeTrad3) They are simply anti western and yet they express everything they do out of liberties secured by the west from enlightment philosophy and its implementation.
[09:15] (FreeTrad3) IN other words, Western liberalism is what allows the far left to act like jackasses.
[09:15] (Sublimer-) Aufk|aren: thats what i'm been saying.. you were acting like the iran gov is rational.
[09:15] (FreeTrad3) TD is ok, he just likes being a contrarian.
[09:15] (US-Male) we cna blame Chuck Hagel as much as the Democrats
[09:16] (FreeTrad3) Ive talked to him a lot in private, he doesnt hold a lot of the views he sometimes appears to hold. he just pushes the limits of political correctness..
[09:16] (FreeTrad3) Yeah I dont like Chuck Hagel.
[09:16] (Aufk|aren) Sublimer-: I don't think they're entirely irrational. I think at some stage reality will sink in.
[09:16] (US-Male) what absolutely shitty timing he had
[09:16] (FreeTrad3) IN fact not only do I not like him, I dislike him
[09:16] (FreeTrad3) I want him out of the senate.
[09:16] (US-Male) if you're going to act like a traitor, TRY not to do it right when Iran is acting up
[09:16] (BC313) FREE.....Hagel is a complete jackass
[09:16] (Aufk|aren) Sublimer-: They didn't do this as a whim. They clearly thought they could gain something by it. That's the sort of rationality they're capable of. If we can make it clearly against their interests to hold them any longer, they will release them.
[09:17] (FreeTrad3) I want him replaced by any moderate or reasonable republican.. Hes damaged or something..
[09:17] (Aufk|aren) brb
[09:17] (FreeTrad3) Hes reliving vietnam.
[09:17] (Sublimer-) Aufk|aren: yah. when they a see a huge bomb dropping from the sky.. they make wake up.
[09:17] (Sublimer-) may
[09:17] (FreeTrad3) And though I honor his service, we need a healthy mind in the senate and he needs to finish his therapy
[09:17] (LinusVanP) hey, you guys got lieberman, we got hagel
[09:17] (Sublimer-) LinusVanP: haha word
[09:17] (LinusVanP) :)
[09:17] (Sbrns4GW) unfortunately, I think the Iranians are so irrational that if we did choose a military route, they'd probably kill the 15
[09:18] (FreeTrad3) Well only Lieberman so far is more likely to switch parties if the democrats push the anti war stuff too far.
[09:18] (FreeTrad3) I dont think hagel is willing to change parties.
[09:18] (US-Male) LinusVanP: and we both have Iran to deal with
[09:18] (BC313) FREE....thay already have pushed it too far....I dont see Lieberman ever switching no matter what
[09:18] (US-Male) Senators are supposed to be a little more responsible than the nuts in the House
[09:18] (FreeTrad3) Other than the war I think Hagel is pretty rightwing isnt he. I should check his voting record..
[09:18] (LinusVanP) I can't imagine leiberman switching, not for a while anyhow
[09:19] (FreeTrad3) BC313, He said he would switch if he had to.
[09:19] (LinusVanP) sisnt the dems give him some chair?
[09:19] (LinusVanP) didn't
[09:19] (FreeTrad3) And he said it would be over the war if he did.
[09:19] (FreeTrad3) the war on terrorism
[09:19] (BC313) FREE.....yes....he said that....and I dont buy it
[09:19] (FreeTrad3) And he may have to if the democrats were to suceed with this legislative pork trick they are using.
[09:19] (FreeTrad3) Its going to be veto's then they will discuss a real bill for the troops.
[09:19] (FreeTrad3) vetoed.
[09:20] (Sublimer-) FreeTrad3: you think dems will back off?
[09:20] (FreeTrad3) BC313, Well having seen him on righwing programs and radio shows I buy it.
[09:20] (LinusVanP) its not like this is a novel idea, using pork to swing votes
[09:20] (BC313) FREE....I think the demrats will just drag their feet on this until the money runs out....then of course they will blame the GOP with MSM assistance
[09:20] (FreeTrad3) Because he has limits where they can push him over to our side. He says he owes the Democrats nothing because they went against him when he ran for Senator.
[09:20] (FreeTrad3) He said his best supporter was a Republican
[09:21] (Sbrns4GW) the vote "against the war" loses a lot of umph when you realize they had to buy votes with pork to squeek it through.
[09:21] (FreeTrad3) And the first time he ever ran Republicans helped get him elected.
[09:21] (Sublimer-) bc313: too bad.. the people will see right through that.
[09:21] (LinusVanP) FreeTrad3, but didn't dems give chairmanship of some senate committee to liberman?
[09:21] (FreeTrad3) He was endorsed by "The National Review" and Bill Buckley way back when.
[09:21] (LinusVanP) lieberman
[09:21] (FreeTrad3) I remember it distinctly. I used to read that magazine along with about 5 others religiously.
[09:21] (BC313) FREE.....I dont buy it because if he was ever gonna switch he has had all the resons he needs at this point (in my mind)
[09:22] (FreeTrad3) I dont anymore I admit because of time, and probably the internet.
[09:22] (FreeTrad3) Information gathering for me now includes 100s of sources.
[09:22] (LinusVanP) well, on most non-war legislation, lieberman isn't likely to be a friend to gop interests
[09:22] (pilgrim`) I see the WHO has finally found a way to take a slice out of A.I.D.S. to actually get a cut above: circumcision seems to help
[09:22] (FreeTrad3) BC313, Well then you dont understand the issues as well as I do.
[09:22] (FreeTrad3) Noone expected this bill to pass.
[09:22] (Sbrns4GW) LinusVanP: true, but if he swings the majority to the GOP, that would really change things.
[09:23] (FreeTrad3) Its democratic politicizing which btw may well backfire on them with the people.
[09:23] (FreeTrad3) both cause of the pork and the lack of funding for the troops.
[09:23] (LinusVanP) Sbrns4GW, I don't think he will, that might piss of enough people in his home state come next election for him
[09:23] (FreeTrad3) neither of which are popular with the people at large.
[09:23] (US-Male) let me just say this, in the words of our southern brethren "Y'all wanna see something funny?"
[09:23] (US-Male) "Senator Chuck Hagel (R-NE) is set to make an announcement today on whether or not he will enter the presidential race."
[09:23] (FreeTrad3) Also support for the war is growing during the surge in America. Its not a huge movement yet.
[09:24] (LinusVanP) it would make cheney the tie breaker, and even moderates that voted for lieberman unlikely to be pleased by that
[09:24] (FreeTrad3) But people want to give the surge a chance I think. Especially as they hear about positive results.
[09:24] (Sublimer-) http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/29/news/economy/beef_prices/index.htm?cnn=yes
[09:24] (Lupine) wow. You know.. i never watch wrestling. except, i might actually this time. I want ot see Trump loose his hair!
[09:24] (FreeTrad3) No Lieberman will not change until it becomes his only choice.
[09:24] (LinusVanP) Lupine, he laready has!
[09:24] (FreeTrad3) WHy would he change on the basis of this bill when he knows this bill is going to be vetoed.
[09:24] (LinusVanP) already
[09:24] (BC313) FREE.....perhaps it would grow more quickly if the MSM would trumpet some of the successes like the do the shortcomings
[09:24] (LinusVanP) you mean lose someone else's hair? ;)
[09:24] (FreeTrad3) A second bill which contains the same time table language could push him over..
[09:24] (FreeTrad3) Its just not yet something any of us know.
[09:25] (FreeTrad3) BC313, Yes.
[09:25] (LinusVanP) Trump has receding heir line :)
[09:25] (Sbrns4GW) NY Post had a good article on the initial results of the surge
[09:25] (US-Male) If the Senate refuses to put up a better funding bill for Iraq, Lieberman might switch
[09:25] (US-Male) this would be after Bush vetoes the current shitty bill
[09:26] (Lupine) LinusVanP: he got this charity thing going on at the wrestling event. If Trumps "guy" loses.. McMahon will personally shave Trumps hair off. and Vice versa if trump's "guy" wins
[09:26] (FreeTrad3) I think the fact that the house democrats even knew this bill would not become law, they are using it to send a message to Bush.. THat they want some of his Article 2 constitutional rights and responsibilities, Bush is sending a clear message back, no you cant have the constitutional powers which are the presidents.
[09:26] (LinusVanP) Lupine, its a toupe isn't it?
[09:26] (Lupine) i still say it's a toupe [ or a tribble ]
[09:26] (LinusVanP) yeah
[09:26] (BC313) Even without a veto I think this bill is unconstitutional
[09:26] (US-Male) FT: Then Hagel could switch and things could get reeeeally interesting
[09:27] (US-Male) but I think Hagel is less likely to do so
[09:27] (TheTailor) Hagel should switch.
[09:27] (LinusVanP) well, I will go on record as saying I am disappointed this is the best the dems could come up with re: iraq
[09:27] (TheTailor) He's all but a democrat anyway.
[09:27] (LinusVanP) it's really just one big messy piece of legislation
[09:27] (Sbrns4GW) LinusVanP: what would you have liked to see them do?
[09:27] (US-Male) although it would be good to get rid of Hagel
[09:27] (allan5oh) the insurgency has all but stopped the execution style murders, but hasn't done much for the insurgency
[09:27] (allan5oh) er... replace first insurgency with surge
[09:28] (US-Male) if Hagel is going to switch, at least give us time to fund the troops in place
[09:28] (BC313) Peanut storage??.....jeez, what wrong with these Libs?
[09:28] (LinusVanP) when I have a campaign war chest in the millions of dollars, I will sit down and come up with something better
[09:28] (LinusVanP) until then, I haven't the time to devote :)
[09:28] (FreeTrad3) US, I dont think Hagel would switch, just 15 days ago or 16 he said he wouldnt vote yes on this bill and he did. He was offered pork or something. I dont see him changing parties. I see him staying as a peacenik in the republcan party. And yet hagel said the war was an honorably intentioned war.. Hes sending mixed signals.
[09:28] (US-Male) FT yeah he's a scumbag
[09:28] (FreeTrad3) Hes sending clear signals though that he is anti war.
[09:28] (US-Male) he probab,y got some cash in a Swiss acount
[09:29] (FreeTrad3) Yeah I have nothing but disdain for him.
[09:29] (US-Male) he's anti-war for a price
[09:29] (BC313) Hes sending clear signals that he wants to be voted out of office
[09:29] (LinusVanP) so hagel is the new mccain?
[09:29] (Eeyore) mornig all
[09:29] (FreeTrad3) I see him as a little man.
[09:29] (Eeyore) morning rather
[09:29] (US-Male) selling your "anti-war" stance is even worse than BEING anti-war
[09:29] (FreeTrad3) No
[09:29] (FreeTrad3) McCain is still McCain as always.
[09:29] (LinusVanP) wasn't mccain the despicable one a yr or two ago?
[09:29] (FreeTrad3) No
[09:29] (US-Male) Hagel's worse than McCain
[09:29] (FreeTrad3) McCain has solidly supported the war since the beggining.
[09:29] (FreeTrad3) He has only objected to the pentagon plan Bush used.
[09:29] (Eeyore) what was wrong with McCain? I thought everyone liked him
[09:29] (LinusVanP) mccain groveling at feet of falwell?
[09:30] (LinusVanP) shudder
[09:30] (FreeTrad3) McCain is trying to get votes.
[09:30] (Sbrns4GW) Eeyore: that's because you've listened to too much MSM
[09:30] (FreeTrad3) He cant win without some of the religious right..
[09:30] (FreeTrad3) I think Rudy may very well be the next president.
[09:30] (LinusVanP) yes, but he totally dissed the very same people last time around
[09:30] (FreeTrad3) But its still too early to say with a lot of conviction.
[09:30] (LinusVanP) so much for straight talk express
[09:30] (Sbrns4GW) FreeTrad3: most of the Dems I know seem to think that the Dems have '08 all locked up
[09:31] (LinusVanP) to think the dems wanted mccain to run with gore
[09:31] (Eeyore) Sbrns4GW Im always accused of funny stuff. working for the oil companies, owning FOX Tv. Hell I havent even watched streaming TV since what, 88?
[09:31] (US-Male) McCain pissed off too many people over the years
[09:31] (LinusVanP) oh wait, we had lieberman
[09:31] (LinusVanP) same diff!
[09:31] (US-Male) with that McCain-Feingold legislation, etc
[09:31] (FreeTrad3) Basically McCain has done a handful of things which pissed people off.
[09:31] (Sbrns4GW) Eeyore: almost no conservatives like McCain
[09:31] (FreeTrad3) but his voting record is very conservative.
[09:31] (LinusVanP) US-Male, that legislation took so long to pass that end-arounds had already been put in place by lobbyists
[09:31] (FreeTrad3) IN some ways more conservative than I am.
[09:31] (BC313) The demrats are basically doing everything they possibly can to have this war ended by the elections....the last thing they want is a demrat in the WH with the war still on
[09:31] (FreeTrad3) His pro life record is strong.. Which helps with the religious right.
[09:31] (Sbrns4GW) FreeTrad3: I'm not even convinced it's all that conservative: he opposed tax cuts, he is for gun control
[09:32] (US-Male) LinusVanP: yeah but it has his name right on it too
[09:32] (US-Male) he can't even run from it
[09:32] (Eeyore) Sbrns4GW why? I do know some US democrats who wasi they would vote for him if he ran as the republican candidate. whats wrong with him? not a social conservative?
[09:32] (FreeTrad3) I am convinced because the facts prove he is.
[09:32] (FreeTrad3) His voting record proves he is other than a couple votes..
[09:32] (US-Male) I don't even care about abortion for a Presidential candidate
[09:32] (LinusVanP) well, lobbyists are the arsenic that overrides by the people for the people of the people
[09:32] (FreeTrad3) The tobacco thing and Election reform are the things most of us republicans didnt like which he was involved in.
[09:32] (Sbrns4GW) Eeyore: he is a social conservative. He's just not an anything-else conservative. Campaign finance reform, gun control, tax cuts. He's on the non-conservative side on all those issues.
[09:32] (FreeTrad3) And here are the reasoins.
[09:32] (FreeTrad3) Reasons
[09:32] (US-Male) the abortion laws aren't going to change no matter who becomes Pres
[09:33] (US-Male) and gay marriage, I could give a rat's ass about
[09:33] (Eeyore) Sbrns4GW oh so the worst of all choices. would be nice to have a social lbertarian and a policy... well libertarian really
[09:33] (FreeTrad3) Most of us republicans believe restraints on election spending is a violation of 1st amendment rights clearly more so than many other rulings the supreme court has made.
[09:33] (LinusVanP) US-Male is retroactively pro-abortion in terms of hillary ;)
[09:33] (US-Male) lol
[09:33] (FreeTrad3) And on the Tobacco issue Republicans believer very much in personal responsibility.
[09:33] (FreeTrad3) If you smoke its your fault
[09:33] (FreeTrad3) simple as that.
[09:33] (FreeTrad3) Using the tobacco companies or the dealers as a scapegoat is wrong.
[09:34] (Eeyore) what 'tobbacco issue?'
[09:34] (US-Male) I agree
[09:34] (Eeyore) whats the issue?
[09:34] (FreeTrad3) The addict, the drug demand side is the side which is chosen of his free will to be a druggie
[09:34] (US-Male) punishing a company for selling a legal product is retarded
[09:34] (LinusVanP) FreeTrad3, under bush justice dept state rights have been undermined on issues such as medical marijuana and euthanasia
[09:34] (US-Male) if it's that bad, then ban it
[09:34] (FreeTrad3) McCain went after the Tobacco companies with fire and brimstone..
[09:34] (Sbrns4GW) the MSM routinely labels McCain as conservative, but I don't think he is. Maybe on a couple of issues, but there are plenty where he's not. McCain's a mixed bag.
[09:34] (LinusVanP) so, I can't say that this administration is truly conservative re: states rights
[09:35] (FreeTrad3) Again the issues are personal responsibility and personal liberty
[09:35] (Eeyore) and for the love of god are the British even going to give Iran a stern look? you know, one of those jowl shaking admonishments the Brits are so good at? or just continue to do nothig
[09:35] (FreeTrad3) the left is funny, they believe in personal liberty when it comes to pot, and even wants pot bars.
[09:35] (US-Male) Eeyore well it's hard to do with the US COngress threatening to defund the IRaq war
[09:35] (LinusVanP) well, smoking pot makes things seem funnier
[09:36] (Sbrns4GW) FreeTrad3: I wonder if they'll want to sue "big marijuana" for the harm it causes down the road.
[09:36] (Eeyore) FreeTrad3 I remind leftie's aboput that all the time when they want smoking banned in bars. they would love to have pot bars
[09:36] (FreeTrad3) But they wont allow smoking even on the sidewalk in some cities and have tried to pass laws even broader, And they are after the tobacco companies.
[09:36] (US-Male) Hagel picked the *worst* possible moment to turn pussy
[09:36] (FreeTrad3) I happen to be for legalizing pot and tobacco..
[09:36] (BC313) Right about now I bet the Brits are regretting their military budget cuts
[09:36] (FreeTrad3) But the hypocrisy is strange
[09:36] (Eeyore) US-Male this is the UK's big chance to put the world a right though
[09:36] (LinusVanP) I haven't heard of proposals to allow pot smoking outside of workplaces
[09:37] (US-Male) Eeyore: well I support them, although I don't have the funds our Senate commands =)
[09:37] (Eeyore) US-Male support who the British or the pot smokers...? Im way lost
[09:37] (LinusVanP) and as far as pot bars go, if people know ahead of time its a pot bar, they can decide with their wallets whether or not to patronize
[09:37] (FreeTrad3) But there have been a couple in depth conservative articles examining McCains record and it proves to be very conservative. And also if you look at his ratings by conservative groups like the chamber of commerce and even right to life and conservative union he gets high scores.
[09:37] (US-Male) the Brits
[09:37] (FreeTrad3) the liberal union gives him very low scores.
[09:37] (US-Male) potsmokers aren't on my radar
[09:37] * Eeyore takes another pull on his Nicorette Inhaler (tm) as he tries to quit smoking for the second week in a row
[09:37] (FreeTrad3) SO I think the degree of him not being a conservative is exagerated a lot, He is definately more conservative than Rudy.
[09:38] (Sbrns4GW) FreeTrad3: what was his Conservative Union score?
[09:38] (FreeTrad3) But I might vote for Rudy..
[09:38] (FreeTrad3) Over 80%
[09:38] (LinusVanP) US-Male, imagine the tax dollars we'd save if drugs were legalized though
[09:38] (Aufk|aren) "The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
[09:38] (Aufk|aren) warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by
[09:38] (Aufk|aren) fools."
[09:38] (Sbrns4GW) FreeTrad3: I know he's pro-life, but that's about the only area I see him as solidly conservative. He's certainly not an economic conservative, or a constitutional conservative, or a gun-totin' conservative
[09:38] (Aufk|aren) Woops.
[09:38] (LinusVanP) _HellMngr, we'd bring in tax revenues on their sale!
[09:38] (Aufk|aren) I quite liked that quote.
[09:38] (LinusVanP) hell
[09:38] (Aufk|aren) It's Thucydides.
[09:39] (Sbrns4GW) Aufk|aren: it's a good one.
[09:39] (Eeyore) hey good day Aufk|aren how are ya?
[09:39] * Subbie- is now known as Sublimer-
[09:39] (Aufk|aren) I'm just fine thanks!
[09:39] (Aufk|aren) You?
[09:39] (Eeyore) medium thanks :*)
[09:39] (BC313) The problem with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant...its just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan 1964
[09:40] (LinusVanP) I mean really, if someone's drug use isn't causing them to abuse their family, steal, kill, or rape, why should we be breaking up families of people who use drugs?
[09:40] (BC313) thats my fav quote
[09:40] (TheTailor) March 20, 2007 -- 'I WALKED down the streets of Ramadi a few days ago, in a soft cap eating an ice cream with the mayor on one side of me and the police chief on the other, having a conversation." This simple act, Gen. David Petraeus told me, would have been "unthinkable" just a few months ago. "And nobody shot at us," he added.
[09:40] (Sbrns4GW) http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=S0061103
[09:40] (FreeTrad3) Yep
[09:40] (Sbrns4GW) he got a 0 from Planned Parenthood and a 75 from Right to Life
[09:40] (FreeTrad3) Thats the site I was lookign for.
[09:40] (LinusVanP) cost to taxpayer: 30k/yr from prison, and about $38k/yr per child in state care
[09:40] (LinusVanP) from/for
[09:40] (FreeTrad3) Yep 0 from planned parenthood
[09:40] (FreeTrad3) I had posted one day all his scores.
[09:41] (FreeTrad3) very conservative overall
[09:41] (Sbrns4GW) Gun Owners of America gave him a zero as well, and the NRA gave him a C+
[09:41] (LinusVanP) bill richardson got an A rating from NRA
[09:41] (Eeyore) oh is it quotes time?
[09:41] (FreeTrad3) Wow they have changed it
[09:41] (US-Male) McCain's people sent me a survey to fill out =)
[09:41] (FreeTrad3) it used to have many more groups scores.
[09:41] (Sbrns4GW) to his credit, citizens Against Government Waste gave him a 91%
[09:41] (US-Male) I dumped it in the trash
[09:42] (Eeyore) War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
[09:42] (Eeyore) John Stuart Mill
[09:42] (pilgrim`) Bill is the best politican money can buy
[09:42] (US-Male) I think they got my name from an NRA mailing list
[09:42] (FreeTrad3) I used to get it from I think it was the National Political almanac
[09:42] (BC313) Seem to be hearing more and more lately about Fred Thompson
[09:42] (pilgrim`) Richardson -I know him
[09:42] (LinusVanP) pilgrim`, he's not exactly sweeping in the campaign funds :(
[09:42] (Sbrns4GW) US Border Control gave him an 18%. Not exactly conservative on border control either
[09:42] (pilgrim`) Linus he won't
[09:42] (FreeTrad3) Oh here it is
[09:42] (Eeyore) oh and here is a good one
[09:42] (Eeyore) The same failure of liberalism is evident in Western Europe, where the dogma of multiculturalism has left a secular Europe very slow to address the looming problem of religious extremism among its immigrants. The people who speak most sensibly about the threat that Islam poses to Europe are actually fascists. To say that this does not bode well for liberalism is an understatement: It does not bode well for the future of civilization -
[09:42] (pilgrim`) Bill has a past that if the media dug it up would ruin him on the natioanl scene
[09:43] (pilgrim`) New Mexico Politics is a unique and interesting flavor
[09:43] (LinusVanP) yes, that story about being on his college baseball team!
[09:43] (FreeTrad3) What did I say?
[09:43] (FreeTrad3) 80%
[09:43] (FreeTrad3) 2005 Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 80 percent in 2005.
[09:43] (FreeTrad3) 2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 83 percent in 2004.
[09:43] (BC313) PILGRIM...then he should run as a demrat...the MSM nevers digs into their background
[09:43] (Sbrns4GW) Americans for Democratic Action (a liberal group) gave him a 35%. That's quite high for a supposedly rock-solid conservative.
[09:43] (pilgrim`) Linus nope. other things.. and I will not mention a one till the time presents
[09:44] (LinusVanP) consevatives have a union, besides the prison guard union?;)
[09:44] (FreeTrad3) Some of these are the latest scores available hence the dates
[09:44] (pilgrim`) btw... I went to UNM too
[09:44] (FreeTrad3) 2006 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Americans for Prosperity 100 percent in 2006.
[09:44] (FreeTrad3) 2005-2006 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Concerned Women for America 100 percent in 2005-2006.
[09:44] (pilgrim`) bbiafew
[09:44] (Sbrns4GW) he got a 40% from Americans for Democratic Action in 2001 :(
[09:44] (LinusVanP) right wing union "heads": The Baritones
[09:44] (FreeTrad3) Here is one important to me because I belong to it in spirit but not in name ;)
[09:44] (FreeTrad3) 2005 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Republican Liberty Caucus - Personal Liberties on personal liberties 84 percent in 2005.
[09:45] (Sbrns4GW) 2005 According to the National Journal - Composite Liberal Score's calculations, in 2005, Senator McCain voted more liberal on economic, defense and foreign policy issues than 41 percent of the Senators.
[09:45] (FreeTrad3) Reason I dont join these things is once you do you get endless literature I dont want
[09:45] (FreeTrad3) And pledge letters
[09:45] (LinusVanP) fox network counters the supranos with the baritones!
[09:45] (LinusVanP) sopranos
[09:45] (Sbrns4GW) 41%!!!
[09:45] (FreeTrad3) 2005 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Republican Liberty Caucus - Economic Issues on economic issues 80 percent in 2005.
[09:45] (Sbrns4GW) 2005 According to the National Journal - Liberal on Foreign Policy's calculations, in 2005, Senator McCain voted more liberal on foreign policy issues than 45 percent of the Senators.
[09:46] (Sbrns4GW) 2005 According to the National Journal - Liberal on Economic Policy's calculations, in 2005, Senator McCain voted more liberal on economic policy issues than 47 percent of the Senators.
[09:46] (LinusVanP) old dan quayle joke... reporter: so, what do you think about HMOs? quayle: actually, I prefer showtime.
[09:46] (Sbrns4GW) 2004 According to the National Journal - Liberal on Economic Policy's calculations, in 2004, Senator McCain voted more liberal on economic policy issues than 49 percent of the Senators.
[09:46] (FreeTrad3) Flood then I will stop or slow down.
[09:46] (LinusVanP) ~david brenner
[09:46] (Sbrns4GW) he's barely right of center, according to the National Journal
[09:47] (FreeTrad3) Liberal
[09:47] (FreeTrad3) (Back to top)
[09:47] (FreeTrad3) 2005 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Committee for an Effective Congress 20 percent in 2005.
[09:47] (FreeTrad3) 2005 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 10 percent in 2005.
[09:47] (FreeTrad3) 2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 35 percent in 2004.
[09:47] (FreeTrad3) 2003 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Committee for an Effective Congress 10 percent in 2003.
[09:47] (FreeTrad3) So his liberal which means leftwing in america scores are all very low.
[09:47] (LinusVanP) one thing I will say about mccain: he could have held a grudge against bush for the rumors bush campiagn team spread about him in south carolina
[09:48] (LinusVanP) but he's been loyal mostly
[09:48] (FreeTrad3) HIs highest was 2001 40% with Americans for Democratic Actions. But I do not know which bills they were pushing that year.
[09:48] (FreeTrad3) they may have even been moderate issues in that year.
[09:49] (Sbrns4GW) FreeTrad3: imo, he's a good solid conservative on social issues, but gets wobbly on economic issues, and downright sucks on guns and free speech (campaign finance reform)
[09:49] (FreeTrad3) Main issues with McCain which make me hesitate to vote for him are 1) he can be a hot head.
[09:50] (Sbrns4GW) FreeTrad3: to his credit he has given rock-solid support for the war effort, and that earns him points in my book
[09:50] (FreeTrad3) And I think a president needs finesse and I think Bush is the perfect example.
[09:50] (FreeTrad3) NO matter how much you dislike Saudi Internal policies or human rights policies, we must maintain a good relation with them as they have been an allie since the 1940s.
[09:50] (Sbrns4GW) finesse? you mean like John Kerry?
[09:51] (FreeTrad3) before Israel even.
[09:51] (FreeTrad3) And we must maintain that same relationship with Pakistan.
[09:51] (FreeTrad3) Kerry has no finesse
[09:51] (FreeTrad3) Finesse is not calling American soilders stupid in public
[09:51] (Sbrns4GW) FreeTrad3: Pakistan may be hard to maintain good relations with if they through Musharaaf out.
[09:51] (FreeTrad3) even if it was meant as a sick joke.
[09:51] (FreeTrad3) Soilders now hate Kerry
[09:51] (FreeTrad3) Thats not finesse.
[09:52] (FreeTrad3) Finesse is understanding when to keep your mouth shut and swallow your pride.
[09:52] (Sbrns4GW) joke my ass. If it was a botched joke he would've corrected it then and there. Especially one botched so badly.
[09:52] (Eeyore) Sbrns4GW forget Pakistan. its unstable and likely to become an Al Queda state very soon or sometghing like it. Pkjistan must be neutered now before that happens.
[09:52] (Sbrns4GW) he let the audience laugh because they got his joke exactly as he meant it.
[09:52] (FreeTrad3) TO act in americas best interests not your emotional interests of the moment.
[09:52] (FreeTrad3) Clinton had anger issues.
[09:52] (FreeTrad3) A president should be methodical and logical and very controlled emotionally
[09:52] (FreeTrad3) except for positive emotions.
[09:52] (Sbrns4GW) FreeTrad3: among other issues
[09:53] (FreeTrad3) THey can display those openly. even crying gently is ok. Weeping is not good.
[09:53] (FreeTrad3) Buyt then I dont cry, so I dont know.
[09:53] (FreeTrad3) I havent since my last dog died.
[09:53] (BC313) Murtha looked like an idiot crying his eyes out in front of the senate
[09:54] (Eeyore) putting a dog down is unspeakably painfull
[09:54] (FreeTrad3) NO I realize Kerry wasnt joking but even if people believe he was it was not finesse the way he handled it.
[09:54] (FreeTrad3) Seriously man, I have have good friends die and not shed a tear.
[09:54] (FreeTrad3) But my dog. haha.
[09:54] (Sbrns4GW) this is interesting: http://www.thetalentshow.org/archives/001850.html
[09:55] (TheTailor) BC313, when was that?
[09:55] (FreeTrad3) There is an emotional attachment hard to explain.THis dog particularly my last couple dogs had gone with me through hard times and good times and major changes in my life and so on..
[09:55] (BC313) THETAILOR....couple weeks ago
[09:55] (FreeTrad3) SO there was a deep connection... It was a companion through it all.
[09:55] (FreeTrad3) Nurtha pardon me.. Is an idiot.
[09:57] (TheTailor) FT, can I put some shingles on if it's a little wet up there, the tar paper is down.
[09:57] (FreeTrad3) 2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Women's Action for New Directions (WAND) and-WILL 27 percent in 2003-2004.
[09:57] (FreeTrad3) 2003 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Non Commissioned Officers Association 100 percent in 2003.
[09:57] (FreeTrad3) But who the hell is the WAND I have not heard of them
[09:58] (FreeTrad3) WAND was founded in 1982 as Women's Action for Nuclear Disarmament. With the end of the cold war, we became Women's Action for New Directions, and have been dedicating our energies to redirect federal budget priorities away from the military and toward human needs."
[09:58] * TheTailor shakes the hell out of FT
[09:58] (TheTailor) FT, can I put some shingles on if it's a little wet up there, the tar paper is down.
[09:58] (FreeTrad3) TT over the tar paper ?
[09:58] (FreeTrad3) The wood is dry ?
[09:59] (Aufk|aren) http://www.shepee.co.uk/
[09:59] (FreeTrad3) If so and its slightly wet, yeah...
[09:59] (FreeTrad3) It the wood is wet I would prefer it dry out so you dont get dry rot later.
[10:00] (FreeTrad3) I have someone coming by in a secodn..
[10:00] (FreeTrad3) I better get ready for them.
[10:00] (FreeTrad3) bbiab
[10:00] (Eeyore) hey ivy^
[10:00] (Eeyore) ivy^ did you used to hang out on DALnet a lot?
[10:01] (Lupine) TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- Iran says the 15 UK military personnel detained last week entered its waters six times before they were arrested, and announced that the promised release of a woman sailor was suspended due to Britain's "behavior" in the matter.
[10:01] (cyberfrg) rush was funny today, someone asked "what are people going to do about iran?" he basically said "nothing, no one will do anything and iran knows it" ... it's so true
[10:02] (TheTailor) God damnit, now it's raining
[10:02] (Thrawn) hello
[10:02] (Eeyore) cyberfrg sickening
[10:02] (TheTailor) Hello
[10:02] (Thrawn) whats happenin
[10:02] (cyberfrg) isn't it?
[10:02] (Eeyore) cyberfrg and the brits have a chance to set eveyhing right here and now
[10:02] (TheTailor) We are bashing Canadians :-)
[10:02] (Lupine) wow.. rush finally said something i can agree with?
[10:03] * Lupine marks this day on the calender
[10:03] (Thrawn) ah, fun
[10:03] (TheTailor) haha
[10:03] (cyberfrg) Lupine: :D
[10:03] (TheTailor) I'm kidding
[10:03] (Eeyore) to show the sponsor states that the west will not tolerate these brazen attacks on international rules of conduct
[10:03] (cyberfrg) well the US certinly can't do anything
[10:03] (Eeyore) sure it can
[10:03] (Eeyore) The US can, but the UK should
[10:03] (Eeyore) and now
[10:03] (Eeyore) preferably days ago
[10:03] (TheTailor) cyberfr0g, the hell we can't.
[10:03] (Thrawn) i'm watching sean hannity (on youtube) say differently cyberfrg
[10:04] (cyberfrg) yea
[10:04] (Eeyore) hell even the Isrealis said enough is enough
[10:04] (cyberfrg) we COULD
[10:04] (cyberfrg) but i don't think will
[10:04] (Lupine) TheTailor: come on, call them by their correct term: The Free Proletariat Citizens of the Peoples Democratic Socialist Republic of Canuckistan
[10:04] (cyberfrg) we have enough grief over iraq's "illegal occupation"
[10:04] (TheTailor) Well we shouldn't, they started this with the Brits and they should do it, but we can and should help.
[10:04] (Eeyore) cyberfrg will, but when why and how is the issue. I have no doubt that the US will go into Iran they have to before thier little science project is completed. but when is the issue
[10:04] (cyberfrg) if the UK asks for our help we'll be all over it but i don't think we would ever do anything on our own
[10:05] (TheTailor) Lupine, the FPCPDSRC!
[10:05] (Thrawn) uk should negotiate
[10:05] (cyberfrg) Thrawn: why?
[10:05] (TheTailor) Horseshit, negotiate why?
[10:05] (Thrawn) the lives of the sailors come first
[10:05] (cyberfrg) bull
[10:06] (cyberfrg) the lives of their country come first
[10:06] (TheTailor) Thrawn, and their lives aren't at isk now?
[10:06] (TheTailor) err, risk
[10:06] (cyberfrg) negotiation will continue to open the door to further KIDNAPPING
[10:06] (Thrawn) yeah thats why they should get them back asap
[10:06] (Thrawn) they wont kidnap ambassadors
[10:06] (Eeyore) um, people BECOME soldiers to put thier nation ahead of thier own lives. its WHY we repsct them. we dont respect the military cause it was an easy way to make a living
[10:06] (TheTailor) That's the good old spineless Canadian mindset we know and love, appease the bad guys.
[10:07] (Thrawn) pow-mia deserves national attention and solution
[10:07] (TheTailor) Thank God not all of Canada is braindead.
[10:07] (Eeyore) TheTailor yes
[10:07] (RiverRat) TheTailor: Well I wish they would speak up to put an end to the North American Union.
[10:08] (TheTailor) What North American Union?
[10:08] (TheTailor) And who?
[10:08] (cyberfrg) pacificism will destroy this world
[10:08] (RiverRat) Mexico America & Canada becomming one.
[10:08] (TheTailor) RiverRat, lets stick to facts shall we, there isn't any such union.
[10:09] (RiverRat) TheTailor: Then why is there a major for it at Arizona State? http://www.asu.edu/clas/nacts/bna/
[10:09] (RiverRat) http://www.augustreview.com/issues/general/toward_a_north_american_union_200608181/
[10:10] (Thrawn) regardless of pacifism, attacking iran will only create an even more unending senseless slaughter with no direction
[10:11] (Thrawn) uk can only create dialogue, it's their only choice
[10:11] (RiverRat) Thrawn: Are you talking about the 15 sailors or the 12,000 american sailors sent to intimidate them? http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=2986643&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312
[10:11] * Lupine hands cyberfr0g a sign which reads "Peace in Our Life Time!" hold it up brother
[10:12] (Eeyore) Thrawn let me be as clear as I can. NOT retaliating massivly on iran and I mean MASSIVLY will only encourage sponsor states of terrorism to feel free to attack western interests wherever and whenever they want. as they alreeady are
[10:12] (Thrawn) rat, that is the wrong thing to do
[10:12] (cyberfrg) Lupine: lol! with a big X on it, i'd happily carry that around
[10:12] (Thrawn) no, we must protect ourselves and educate the common man of these countries
[10:12] (Eeyore) cyberfrg pacifism wont destroy the world it will destroy itself and over night. it will jsut lead to a world where the nastiest shittiest people rule us all. as it always does
[10:13] (cyberfrg) yea
[10:13] (flytail) Holy moly, this is like a 24 hour discussion.
[10:13] (RiverRat) Thrawn: I agree but war is so profitable to the Bushies that how can we stop them?
[10:13] (RiverRat) flytail: New to IRC?
[10:13] (Lupine) cyberfr0g: the sad reality is.. very few "get" the reference :-/
[10:13] (cyberfrg) RiverRat: war is profitable? how much money have we spent on it again?
[10:13] (Eeyore) Thrawn how protect yourselves when you yourself want not to?
[10:13] (flytail) New to political discussion in this channel. :)
[10:13] (ivy^) "as it always does" seems to include the present
[10:13] * Gog123 is a stockholder of real estate properties
[10:13] (flytail) It's like NPR gone all day.
[10:14] (Gog123) anyone want to stay at the hotel pennsylvania? make me some moola :)
[10:14] (Eeyore) Lupine trust me Neville Chamberlain is #2 on my shittiest people in history list
[10:14] (Gog123) i feel like monopoly
[10:14] (RiverRat) cyberfrg: Lot's and who has made money? Haliburton, KBR, defense contractors, etc. and who contributes the most to the political parties?
[10:14] (ivy^) who's nr 1, eeyore?
[10:14] (cyberfrg) RiverRat: and what have their profits been? you can't even compare the two
[10:14] (Eeyore) ivy^ Hitler. of course. well he is tied with about 20 other people. Im starting to soften on Caucescu though :*)
[10:15] (ivy^) heh
[10:15] (Thrawn) Eeyore that assumes military offense in the middle east is a defense, while i would suggest it creates more anti-US freedom fighters in future generations
[10:15] (Gog123) who cares about hitler
[10:15] (cyberfrg) RiverRat: i guess the mom and pop shop that makes one of the rubber grommits for a tank is evil because they make money off of war right?
[10:15] (Gog123) make some money, live where you want
[10:15] (Gog123) and change the world
[10:15] (Gog123) politics sucks balls if you talk the talk but dont walk the walk
[10:15] (RiverRat) Thrawn: Agreed. Bush has done more for Al Quida recruitment than Bin Laden ever did.
[10:15] (cyberfrg) RiverRat: or how about the minimum wage worker who polishes the inside of shell casings ... evil right?
[10:16] (Gog123) since when have any of you actually BEEN with a former president?
[10:16] (Gog123) or made change to the world
[10:16] * Thrawn nods
[10:16] (Eeyore) Thrawn Im familiar with that argument. the real reason there are so many anti US freedom fiogthers is since the relativists and pacifists have taken so much control, Mid eastern Islamic nut bars know there is little to no consequence for absurd actions that would never have been tolerated a few decades ago.
[10:16] * Gog123 knows people who did, i didnt either but i got hurt
[10:16] (Gog123) :P
[10:16] (RiverRat) cyberfrg: I didn't say that. It is the ones that advocate starting/expanding the war that should be charged w/ war crimes.
[10:16] (cyberfrg) RiverRat: so haliburton cried for war?
[10:17] (Lupine) AHAHAHHAH http://www.break.com/index/pee_wee_hockey_brawl.html
[10:17] (cyberfrg) RiverRat: kbr cried for war?
[10:17] (VT) RiverRat is starting expanding war a crime?
[10:17] (Eeyore) RiverRat Bush was only in power for 6 months before 9-11 and CLinton was in power the first time the same people attempted the WTC with a van bomb. are you historically myopic?
[10:17] (Thrawn) Eeyore this all started with bin laden BECAUSE of US intervention in soviet-afghan matters, then we abandoned them and left them to bathe in poverty, ignorance and anger
[10:17] (cyberfrg) lol
[10:17] (VT) RiverRat by extention is the USA criminal for starting expanding war?
[10:17] (RiverRat) Democrans & Republicrats are simply two different management styles for the same political agenda.
[10:18] (cyberfrg) RiverRat: which is?
[10:18] (VT) no no
[10:18] (VT) RiverRat examples please.
[10:18] (TheTailor) Thrawn, well that's the most assinine falsehood I've ever heard.
[10:18] (Thrawn) Eeyore, Clinton was accused of being 'obssesed' with binladen
[10:18] (Eeyore) Thrawn and that is also bullshit. The US did support Afghanistan in its attempt to stop Soviet imperialism. this was a good thing and I would support it again today if it was the case. the appropriate responce would be GRATITUDE to the US. instead Afghanistan acts as if they where french
[10:19] (Eeyore) Thrawn Clinton had a chance to kill Bin laden years ago but decided it wouldnt look good in the polls at that time cause of guys like you
[10:19] (RiverRat) Coporations rule the world. That is why the main thing in the oil sharing agreement in Iraq (and NOT covered by the news) is the ability of foreign companies to come in and bid (read: take over) the oil production in Iraq.
[10:19] (Eeyore) ok RiverRat doesnt know that Micheal Moore is outed yet so Ill ignore him till he notices
[10:19] (VT) RiverRat , last I saw most believe, no one rules the world.
[10:20] (Thrawn) they were uneducated tribes who were offerred freedom but instead given guns and a long long war -- while watching the US bask in their sacrifices
[10:20] (TheTailor) Thrawn, who said Clinton was obsessed with Bin Laden?
[10:20] (cyberfrg) jesus
[10:20] (cyberfrg) how rediculous
[10:20] (RiverRat) I'm not a M Moore fan either. I'm a Dr. Ron Paul supporter and for his style of government: adherence to the Constitution!
[10:20] (Eeyore) Iran has to be hit HARD for its kidnapping of UK sailors. anything short of a major attack and they will dust themselves off and say 'is that all you got?'
[10:20] (Thrawn) thetailor, republican congressmen
[10:20] (cyberfrg) Eeyore: agreed
[10:20] (VT) RiverRat and the oil sharing agreement is not the main focus of the world, and what has that got to do with the "management" stlyes of dems and reps?
[10:20] (TheTailor) Thrasher`, WHICH Republican congressman?
[10:21] (Thrawn) i'll look that up, brb
[10:21] (TheTailor) Thrawn that is
[10:21] (cyberfrg) RiverRat: so somehow corporations are anti-constitution?
[10:21] (TheTailor) Thrawn, get a quote.
[10:21] (Eeyore) cyberfrg it really frightens me the hubris the peaceniks show in their certainty that all these nations just want to get along and it must be our fault they hate us. its pure hubris and arroagnce to imaghine everyone thinks as they do. and, its the fault of our education system. so in a way, ours
[10:22] (cyberfrg) i completely agree it's our fault... the pussification of the country and the world has caused this mess
[10:22] (Lupine) AHAHAH.. this rocks http://www.break.com/index/launching_a_bowling_ball.html
[10:22] (Lupine) que the Homer Simpson "DOH!"
[10:23] (VT) RiverRat if most people think your ideas are out of the main stream, there might be a good reason to question them yourself. Granted new ideas are not always popular, but there are so so many red flags you are sending up in this short talks with you that it is hard not to wonder what it is you are believing / following.
[10:23] (Eeyore) cyberfrg there is a movie, cant remember the name, Anthony Hopkins I believe plays a butler to a British APpeaser before WW2 who holds a meeting of British and Euro nobility attempting to placate Hitler. people need to see this movie today.
[10:23] (RiverRat) cyberfrg: Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power.-- Benito Mussolini
[10:23] (RiverRat) And he was a supporter of Fascism. :(
[10:24] (herodotus) There are still more than 380 prisoners at Guantanamo. Almost none has been charged. Those ultimately charged with murder could be sentenced to death by the military commission. The decider of the death penalty after appeals are exhausted is none other than George Bush, who, as governor of Texas, oversaw the most active death chamber in the United States. Back then his lawyer was Alberto Gonzales.
[10:24] (VT) RiverRat: but most don't believe or equivacate things like that.
[10:25] (cyberfrg) Eeyore: the remains of the day?
[10:25] (rond) KILL EM ALL
[10:25] (cyberfrg) rond: you win
[10:25] (RiverRat) Does that mean I can't. I fully intend to vote for Ron Paul regardless of if I have to write him in.
[10:26] (flytail) I think Britian should admit it made a mistake, either that or admit it's trying to engage politcal international pressure on Iran.
[10:26] (Eeyore) cyberfrg sounds fami;lir that may be it. large house... many maids, the butler ends up courting one, the nobleman of the house invites the Germans and they plan to steal all his stuff...
[10:26] (RiverRat) flytail: There former Russian envoy said as much in his blog.
[10:26] (cyberfrg) flytail: here's an idea, what if they DIDN'T make a mistake
[10:26] (Eeyore) flytail and what mistake did Britain make exactly.
[10:26] (cyberfrg) and (OMFG) iran is .... LYING
[10:26] (cyberfrg) impossible!!!
[10:26] (cyberfrg) no way that could happen
[10:27] (VT) RiverRat: it's your vote. You come off like a nut, but it's your vote.
[10:27] (Thrawn) TheTailor: thanks, i was wrong
[10:27] (flytail) That's the issue really. Britian says they were in safe waters, and Iran said it was in their waters. Yet the people providing evidence in great detail ( Britians ) are the accused.
[10:27] (Eeyore) cyberfrg Ill give amenedijihad this. He is a man of his word. if he says he is gonna nuke Israel he is gonna nuke Israel. he has done every other horrific thing he said he is gonna do
[10:27] (cyberfrg) Eeyore: "A butler who sacrificed body and soul to service in the years before World War II realizes too late how misguided his loyalty has been. "
[10:27] (TheTailor) Thrawn, good for you, at least you can learn something if you are mistaken.
[10:27] (Eeyore) cyberfrg thats it. have you seen it? i reccomend it.
[10:28] (cyberfrg) Eeyore: i have not seen it, i shall add it omy netflix queue
[10:28] (Eeyore) cyberfrg just for the 1 min speech the US diplomat gives at the dinner party
[10:28] (astrodog) Eeyore: Has he driven Israel into the sea?
[10:28] (RiverRat) VT: Thank-you. I intend to exercise it too.
[10:28] (cyberfrg) astrodog: he's still working on the bomb duh :)
[10:28] (Eeyore) astrodog he doesnt have his nukes ready yet. he said he will and he will try
[10:28] (cyberfrg) Eeyore: and yes, it's the people that follow through with their threats that become the most powerful
[10:28] (cyberfrg) it's quite obvious he has no peaceful intentions
[10:29] (Eeyore) cyberfrg no one noticed Mine Kampf either
[10:29] (cyberfrg) no peaceful country would work so hard at pissing everyone off
[10:29] (VT) Sub Commander Poloci speaks, she wants Bush to step back and take a deep breath.
[10:29] (astrodog) Maybe he's just bored.
[10:29] (astrodog) ;)
[10:29] (Eeyore) cyberfrg have you seen 'deterence'? one of my all time fave movies if a little dated at this point. get that one for sure
[10:30] (cyberfrg) Eeyore: 1925 was when it was plublished
[10:30] (Eeyore) cyberfrg that cant be right
[10:31] (Eeyore) cyberfrg tell me what you think when you see it. also, did you get the documentary on A Q Khan yet?
[10:31] (cyberfrg) not yet
[10:31] (Eeyore) not yet downloaded compeltly?
[10:31] (flytail) I don't understand why the senate passed a bill that's gonna get vetoed.
[10:31] (cyberfrg) i forget where i stopped a few nights ago
[10:32] (cyberfrg) flytail: because they would face reprisales if they hadn't
[10:32] (flytail) Besides manuevering and politics, I don't understand.
[10:32] (flytail) What's a reprisal?
[10:32] (flytail) From who?
[10:32] (cyberfrg) a retaliatory action against an enemy in wartime
[10:32] (flytail) Oh ok.
[10:32] (cyberfrg) mostly dems
[10:32] (cyberfrg) i bet there were a lot that didn't want to pass it
[10:33] (flytail) But they did?
[10:33] (cyberfrg) but if they hadn't they would have been disavowed or shunned by the rest
[10:33] (cyberfrg) Eeyore: got the url for it again?
[10:33] (Eeyore) cyberfrg may I PM you please I have some questions for you
[10:33] (cyberfrg) sure
[10:33] (Eeyore) cyberfrg I can send you the file to start the torrent
[10:33] (cyberfrg) k
[10:37] (USmotto) How long did China hold our airmen those few years ago?
[10:37] (astrodog) Like a week? Something along those lines.
[10:37] (astrodog) The big fight there was about the aircraft.
[10:37] * TwoKnives is now known as MrPirate
[10:38] (USmotto) We got that plane back in parts, didn't we?
[10:38] * MrPirate is now known as TangoKilo
[10:38] (Eeyore) USmotto good. ever see a chinese built plane? I wouldnt let my kid fly one over a pond with remote control
[10:38] (astrodog) USm: Chunks of it.
[10:38] (USmotto) lol
[10:38] (Eeyore) the best way to get a Chinese worked on plane is in parts.
[10:39] (astrodog) Eeyore: They have a number of decent aircraft.... J-12 J-11, and that one they're making with Pakistan.
[10:40] (Eeyore) astrodog thier passenger jets arent allowed over German Airspace and shouldnt be allowed anywhere the value of a person is over about six bucks
[10:40] (astrodog) Err.
[10:40] (astrodog) China doesn't make any passenger aircraft.
[10:41] (Eeyore) astrodog have yuou an email addy you can give me? I have a thing to show you on this subject
[10:41] (Eeyore) its an email not a link
[10:41] (USmotto) I wonder how much stolen US tech is in their combat planes?
[10:42] (astrodog) Sure, astrodog@gmail.com
[10:42] (astrodog) USm: Not too much. They're mostly russian.
[10:42] (flytail) I wonder what's gonna happen when we pull out of iraq.
[10:42] (USmotto) ic
[10:42] (astrodog) USm: China hasn't stolen much in the way of fighter aircraft... they did get that Patriot PAC-3... but it turned out they bought that.
[10:42] (USmotto) How much stolen US tech is in Russian combat aircraft?
[10:42] (astrodog) Once again, very little.
[10:43] (USmotto) ok
[10:43] (astrodog) The US, and the USSR had very different ideas, on fighters.
[10:43] (Eeyore) the basics are all US.
[10:43] (astrodog) ?
[10:43] (Eeyore) the details, tube radios instead of transistors maybe are russian but the Soviets didnt invent anything
[10:43] (Eeyore) The aircraft, a US invention. radio? not sure probably US but NOT russin
[10:44] (Eeyore) and lets see...
[10:44] (astrodog) Radio was Italian.
[10:44] (astrodog) Turbojets were German.
[10:44] (Eeyore) the invetor was Italian in origin but where did he invent it?
[10:45] (astrodog) As I recall, the soviets invented look-down radar... for the MiG-25.
[10:45] (astrodog) We stole that, when that guy defected...
[10:45] (Eeyore) During the 1860s, Scottish physicist, James Clerk Maxwell predicted the existence of radio waves; and in 1886, German physicist, Heinrich Rudolph Hertz demonstrated that rapid variations of electric current could be projected into space in the form of radio waves similar to those of light and heat.
[10:45] (Eeyore) astrodog but Radar was a British invention was it not?
[10:45] (astrodog) What, the underlying invention?
[10:46] (Eeyore) In 1866, Mahlon Loomis, an American dentist, successfully demonstrated "wireless telegraphy." Loomis was able to make a meter connected to one kite cause another one to move, marking the first known instance of wireless aerial communicatio
[10:46] (astrodog) Most of these were figured out, before the soviet union was a country. :P
[10:46] (Eeyore) right
[10:46] (CryHavoc) astro....sill interested in a Buddha?
[10:46] (astrodog) Cry: Whacha got?
[10:46] (Eeyore) the point is, that its important to remember which civilisations actually inventd these technologies so people dont start imagining these copiers are somehow equivalent
[10:47] (astrodog) Eeyore: We didn't invent farming, either.
[10:47] (Eeyore) cause they are not
[10:47] (astrodog) :P
[10:47] (CryHavoc) I have the package..and will open it hortly...2 more bills to pay lol
[10:47] (CryHavoc) was up at my booth modifying it lol
[10:47] (Eeyore) astrodog actaul agriculture was what, European? I dont know. Maybe China had the first real agriculture.
[10:47] (astrodog) Ee: What about zero? That's an arab invention.
[10:47] (USmotto) astrodog, are you familiar with the sunburn missile, a Russian missile, I believe, and I believe China has acquired them through purchases from Russia
[10:48] (astrodog) USm: Right.
[10:48] (Eeyore) astrodog yes the Arabs pre Islam where a remarkable civilisation
[10:48] (astrodog) Supersonic terminal phase ASCM.
[10:48] (Eeyore) brb phone biz :*)
[10:48] (USmotto) astrodog, is it a missile the US can defeat at the moment?
[10:49] (astrodog) USm: That would depend on the exact circumstances.
[10:50] (astrodog) Its within the engagement envelope of SM-2, and CWIS... but it probably wouldn't be shot down reliably.
[10:50] (joshmo) i have a solution for the brits to get their soldiers out
[10:50] (joshmo) very simple
[10:50] (USmotto) I've read the missile can worm its way through a naval armada and strike a carrier with enough force to blow it to smitherenes
[10:50] (astrodog) USm: Its impressive... but not that impressive.
[10:50] (RiverRat) http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/shank1.html (-- Dr. Paul interview. Great!!
[10:50] (USmotto) good
[10:50] (joshmo) they say "give them back or we bomb a village..... then we bomb a city .... then we bomb fucking teheran"
[10:51] (joshmo) and if all that fails, nuke the fuckers
[10:51] (Eeyore) joshmo no that would be SO wrong. we have no right to do that at all
[10:51] (Eeyore) joshmo what we have to do is, a MAJOR attack right now
[10:52] (Gog123) TJX Says Computer Breach Involved at Least 45.7 Million Credit, Debit Cards
[10:52] (Eeyore) say 1/2 of theran
[10:52] * Gog123 goes shopping
[10:52] (Eeyore) then say want any mroe sialors?
[10:52] * Gog123 owns the world
[10:52] (Gog123) :)
[10:53] * Gog123 wants to be a billionaire
[10:53] (astrodog) Eeyore: That jet engine isn't Chinese.
[10:53] (astrodog) It was poorly maintained.
[10:53] (flytail) Britian's prime minister needs to go over to Iran, kneel down and kiss the Iranian minister and profusely apologize.
[10:53] (Gog123) Garick Acquires Tarheel Bark of North CarolinaLast update: 3/29/2007 1:45:00 PM
[10:53] * Gog123 needs a bank to work with and a loan for 1 million
[10:54] (Gog123) if i got 1 million i can turn it into 1 billion easy
[10:54] (Eeyore) astrodog culpa man I forgot the context of that email.
[10:54] (astrodog) Eeyore: The Chinese don't make passenger jets.
[10:55] (Aufk|aren) The Iranians have released a letter from Faye Turney that demands British withdrawal from Iraq. If any more proof were needed of duress, there it is.
[10:55] (Eeyore) astrodog right got it. even so, as you see, they shouldnt even maintain the ones they buy
[10:55] (cyberfrg) flytail: once again you are on some kick that iran is right and the UK is wrong even though the UK has shown evidence
[10:55] * Gog123 feels like dr. zoidberg when he gave his stock away for a sandwich :P
[10:55] (astrodog) Eeyore: That has... little to nothing to do with their manufacturing abilities... and much more to do with a company trying to make some extra $.
[10:55] (flytail) It's just to stir discussion. I take the opposing view.
[10:55] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren why stop there? faye should demand we all make the Haj this year
[10:55] * Gog123 business
[10:55] (joshmo) Eeyore: why would that be wrong?
[10:55] (cyberfrg) flytail: you're not stiring any discussion
[10:56] (Eeyore) joshmo did you see my next statement?
[10:56] (cyberfrg) flytail: you're just irritating
[10:56] (joshmo) ya
[10:56] (joshmo) but don't fuck around
[10:56] (flytail) Oh, ok, I'll submit then.
[10:56] (Eeyore) joshmo Im sorry I was being a little facitious. we need to act and it shoud be fucling Major in my opinion.
[10:56] (joshmo) if you kid with them, they think you're weak
[10:56] (Eeyore) I in essence agree with you
[10:56] (Eeyore) right
[10:56] (joshmo) agreed
[10:57] (joshmo) they need to whiped out in fact
[10:57] (joshmo) they contribute nothing
[10:57] (Eeyore) not wiped out. they need to be neutered. shown that the west is past its post modern relativist stage
[10:57] (joshmo) i think 2 well plaved nukes and they are done
[10:57] (Eeyore) that we will not take these breaches of int'l conduct
[10:57] (joshmo) ya
[10:58] (joshmo) and that they're our bitches
[10:58] (CryHavoc) hrmm no need to confront Iran directly...
[10:58] (Gog123) GO TARHEELS
[10:59] (CryHavoc) featherheads?
[10:59] (joshmo) Cry: what have u been smokin?
[10:59] (CryHavoc) nothing...
[10:59] (Gog123) cry you need a drink
[10:59] (Eeyore) we could use ISrael as we did with the Iraqui reactor I guess but this wont work this time.
[10:59] (Gog123) cry you in nyc?
[10:59] (CryHavoc) American Spirit Cigarettes is all
[10:59] (Gog123) if so ill buy ya a taquilla
[10:59] (CryHavoc) negatory on that...SW FLA
[11:00] (joshmo) ok
[11:00] (joshmo) bye
[11:00] * CryHavoc will live in no state with a state income tax...or nowhere with gun restrictions
[11:00] (pilgrim`) in Soviet Russia the guns tax you!
[11:00] (astrodog) pilg: Uh.
[11:00] (CryHavoc) no in Russia the Goons are taxing..the guns are deadly
[11:01] (Gog123) my portfolio sucks
[11:01] (Gog123) minus 6% in 3 days
[11:01] (Gog123) :(
[11:01] (CryHavoc) stock portfolio??
[11:01] (pilgrim`) and are cheap Walther knock offs
[11:01] (Gog123) my mutual fund
[11:01] (Gog123) :(
[11:01] (CryHavoc) heh I have one of those..I think...
[11:01] (CryHavoc) maybe I should look at it ...one day
[11:01] (Gog123) i would have doubled up on it today
[11:01] (Gog123) but i cant cause the bank has to be approved
[11:02] (Gog123) will take another 10 days
[11:02] (CryHavoc) ok..bbs
[11:02] (cyberfrg) pilgrim`: in soviet russia, the bullets load YOU
[11:02] (pilgrim`) WildCat! ?
[11:03] (Lupine) pilgrim`: russian are walther knockoffs?
[11:03] (pilgrim`) the USSR reminded me of how CHicago ran int eh 30s
[11:03] (pilgrim`) Makarovs
[11:03] (pilgrim`) its basically a PP or PPK
[11:03] (tnzr) http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/dip?f=/g/archive/2007/03/28/dip.DTL
[11:03] (pilgrim`) but then, so is my Detonics 9
[11:03] (tnzr) Megatron was a Walther. 'Nuff said.
[11:03] (pilgrim`) but the Detonics is a BETTER Walter knock off
[11:03] (Lupine) really? didn't know that. know it looks rather different
[11:04] (pilgrim`) look at the inards
[11:04] (USmotto) I owned a French Manhurin, (sp), made under license by Walther PPKS
[11:05] (Lupine) nevered open one up
[11:05] (pilgrim`) sort of like the lemme think: TA90 TZ76 AT84 and Witness -all by various makers/ companies, all basically a Tanfoglio designed knock off of the Czech CZ-75
[11:05] (pilgrim`) TZ75 that is
[11:05] (pilgrim`) PPKS was a PP frame with a PPK slide
[11:06] * Eeyore wants a P90. no chance of getting onelegally in Canada though
[11:06] (pilgrim`) it was built specifically to gain the "points" to be imported under the assinine rules of the GFA1968
[11:07] (JupaSaur) how the heck were the iranians able to capture the brit marinies when they were (or at least should have been) being protected by the brit navy and the u.s. navy? either the plan was to let the brits be captured and/or the u.s. navy and the u.k. navy were not adequately protecting the brit marines. ...
[11:07] (FreeTrad3) Abusive Domain or User
[11:07] (JupaSaur) unless of course, the brit marines were in iranian waters at the time and for either the u.s. navy or the u.k. navy to intervene, they would have had to go into iranian waters and airspace to do so?
[11:07] (pilgrim`) I own one of these: http://files.uzitalk.com/reference/uzigal/guns/solothurnAT-84.jpg
[11:08] (pilgrim`) compete as in that pic
[11:08] (pilgrim`) though I haev 4 extra magazines, a Milt Sparks "Four Pack"
[11:08] (Eeyore) JupaSaur no there are otehr scenarios. say for example, a small boat of brits doing their UN job was picked off by a large Iranian war ship and the captain knew that surrender was the appropriate thing to do under those absurd circumstances as help was hours away
[11:09] (pilgrim`) but do NOT have the 1 thing I want; a 40AE barrel
[11:09] (Eeyore) pilgrim` where you live is there a size limit on magazines?
[11:10] (panini) my magazines are limited to the size of Playboy
[11:10] (JupaSaur) Eeyore why weren't the brit ships of the line close enough to protect the zodiak with their marines
[11:10] (Lupine) pilgrim`: have you seen the "new" Wilson plastic uber-pistol?
[11:10] (astrodog) Jupa: Because that's not what RIBs are used for.
[11:10] (VT) Yeah, yeah, so they use to say when it came to the
[11:11] (astrodog) Jupa: They USE that kind of boat, because it would be particularily dangerous to have the larger ship get in close.
[11:11] (Lupine) http://www.wilsoncombat.com/handguns/adp/adp_1_2007.jpg
[11:11] (Lupine) *snicker*
[11:11] (Gog123) ProShrUSSemi SSG 74.97 +2.41 +3.3
[11:11] (Gog123) PwrShsDB Oil DBO 27.26 +0.77 +2.9
[11:11] (Gog123) iPathGSCrdOil nts OIL 39.05 +1.10 +2.9
[11:11] (Gog123) US OilFd USO 53.49 +1.49 +2.9
[11:11] (Gog123) ClymrOilUp UCR 70.04 +1.90 +2.8
[11:11] (Gog123) MktVecSteel SLX 55.45 +1.12 +2.1
[11:11] (VT) oops, just hit the return key,
[11:11] (Gog123) PwrShsDB Engy DBE 27.83 +0.53 +1.9
[11:11] (Gog123) PwrShsGldnDrgn PGJ 20.65 +0.38 +1.9
[11:11] (Gog123) iPathGSCI nts GSP 42.37 +0.77 +1.9
[11:11] (Gog123) iShrChina25 FXI 103.17 +1.84 +1.8
[11:11] (JupaSaur) astrodog that does not make any sense at all
[11:11] (VT) just had a Vista moment.
[11:11] (Gog123) sorry VT
[11:12] (VT) hey np pal.
[11:12] (tnzr) JupaSaur: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article1582544.ece
[11:12] (VT) I talk too much as it is :)
[11:12] (astrodog) Jupa: If the Frigate had been in closer, it would have been exposed if a larger Iranian force had come out.
[11:12] (Braxari) that particular ship would have grounded, the water wasnt deep enough
[11:12] (astrodog) Brax: The ship was a Fast Frigate. Its about as small as major surface combatants get.
[11:13] (Lupine) The Iranians also blundered in diplomatic talks by giving the British their own compass reference for the place where they said the 14 men and one woman had been seized. When Britain plotted these on a map and pointed out that the spot was in Iraq’s maritime area, the Iranians came up with a new set of coordinates, putting the seizure in their own waters.
[11:13] (Eeyore) JupaSaur Im not a military expert. I dont know. I also dont know if its important. I do know, what Iran did was a hostile act and one whihc breached every rule of itnernational engagment. even the letters they are releaseing are in violation of basic geneva convention protocols. this alone is enough reason not to be suspicious of the UK's role.
[11:13] (pilgrim`) Lupien...plastic. blargh
[11:13] (JupaSaur) if the water was deep enough for a cargo ship that supposedly the brits were boardin, it was deep enough for a ship of the line to be close enoough to protect the zodiac
[11:13] (astrodog) Jupa: "Ship of the Line" is pretty old terminology.
[11:13] (Lupine) pilgrim`: heh, recognize it?
[11:13] (Yaakov) Maybe Iran actually made a mistake!
[11:13] (astrodog) And the larger surface ship is SUPPOSED to stay back.
[11:14] (pilgrim`) yes Lupine...I do ;)
[11:14] (JupaSaur) moreover, the brits had or should have had naval aircraft capable of protecting the zodiac on scene
[11:14] (Eeyore) Yaakov they need to KNOW they made one. a few MOAB's should make iot clear
[11:14] (Yaakov) If they told them the real coordinates, maybe they *thought* the Brits were in they waters.
[11:14] (astrodog) Because if something DOES happen, with the bording party... it can remain close enough to assist, without being in danger.
[11:14] (td) jeeze
[11:14] (Yaakov) It is an interesting possibility.
[11:14] (td) BAGHDAD, Iraq (Reuters) - Suicide bombers killed more than 100 people in a crowded market in a Shi'ite district of Baghdad and a mainly Shi'ite town on Thursday in an upsurge in the sectarian violence that threatens all-out civil war.
[11:14] (Lupine) wilson slaps their name on it, charges 3 times the price as the Heritage Stealth
[11:15] (Braxari) it would have been nice if their chopper had stayed after the initial boarding
[11:15] (astrodog) Jupa: The FFG being closer would have exposed it... AND wouldn't have changed the situation.
[11:15] (pilgrim`) Lupine my weapon is a big, heavy, boring old all steel pistol, but it works just fine ;)
[11:15] (astrodog) The problem is that they didn't know what the Iranians were doing, until they were too close to the RIB for the FFG to fire.
[11:15] (Eeyore) astrodog this seems likely yes
[11:16] (Lupine) pilgrim`: Springfield bought the rights to market the HS2000.. and offers a good value reliable firearm. Wilson tries to copy them.. but buys a shit-gun.. and charges a premium for it.
[11:16] (td) those british really werent following good procedure
[11:16] (td) that is obvious
[11:16] (Lupine) the ADP is like the HiPoint of plastic guns
[11:16] (astrodog) td: They were doing EXACTLY what they're supposed to do.
[11:16] (JupaSaur) bah. you do not send zodiacs out to board ships that close to hostile waters without adequate protection
[11:17] (astrodog) Surface Combatants, like FFGs, are supposed to stay well aware from the boarding operations, becaise there's nothing they can do in support of the operation, AND it just puts them at risk.
[11:17] (Aufk|aren) JupaSaur: The protection was there, but it was there to protect them against Iraqi smugglers and insurgents.
[11:17] (Lupine) astrodog: not to mention, the ship may be loaded with explosives.
[11:17] (Aufk|aren) JupaSaur: The rules of engagement did not include firing on teh iranians.
[11:17] (astrodog) Lup: Right.
[11:17] (td) So Iran isnt a threat?
[11:17] (Aufk|aren) JupaSaur: Obviously those RoE will have to be revised.
[11:17] (td) I thought Iran was a threat
[11:17] (Braxari) it only took 3-4 minutes for the Iranians to get in position, it was a setup waiting for an opportunity
[11:17] (JupaSaur) the brist were not boarding the freighter to use the ships swimming pool or mingle with the passenegers. they were on a military mission and they were not adequately protected
[11:18] (astrodog) Jupa: What do you think they should have done?
[11:18] (Aufk|aren) td: Yes, it's a threat. But that doesn't mean we're going to enter into war with them without political control. That's why the RoE are designed to de-escalate the situation.
[11:18] (astrodog) Executed the bording operation from the Frig?
[11:18] (Aufk|aren) And even if the HMS Cornwall had intervened, the Iranians could have killed the sailors anyway.
[11:18] (Aufk|aren) There were six ships with heavy machine guns.
[11:18] (astrodog) A Frigate is perfectly capible of doing the boarding, without the RIB.
[11:18] (Aufk|aren) The Cornwall was a decent distance away.
[11:18] (astrodog) It doesn't, because it would put the ship at risk.
[11:19] (JupaSaur) what are they cowards
[11:19] (JupaSaur) you do not send your men and woman into a hostile situation without adequate protection
[11:19] (astrodog) Say the ship they're inspecting is full of explosives... if the frig comes in... those can be detonated... killing a few hundred sailors.
[11:19] (td) Jupasaur: Iran is a threat, but they weren't setup to handle an Iranian threat.. lol
[11:19] (astrodog) Or, worse
[11:19] (Aufk|aren) JupaSaur: Don't be an idiot. You weren't there, you don't know anything about the military conduct in this sort of situation, and I've tried to explain to why the Iranians weren't engaged.
[11:19] (JupaSaur) so if there was a setup. the brit marines were being set up by the brit high command
[11:20] (astrodog) Iran sends out a larger force, and captures not only the RIB, but the FFG.
[11:20] (JupaSaur) Aufk|aren i disagree with your explanation
[11:20] (Aufk|aren) JupaSaur: Sure, sure. Go tell it to Alex Jones.
[11:20] (Aufk|aren) I don't care if you disagree. You're wrong.
[11:20] (JupaSaur) bah
[11:20] (td) Aufklaren is an expert on naval techniques
[11:20] (td) he has you beaten
[11:20] (JupaSaur) rotfl
[11:20] (astrodog) Jupa: They don't use RIBs for boarding other ships because its easier.
[11:21] (Aufk|aren) I'm an expert on being able to relay what the British commanders have said.
[11:21] (astrodog) They use them because it doesn't put the larger ship at risk.
[11:21] (Aufk|aren) And *they* are the experts in this situation.
[11:21] (td) so what you are saying is you saw some people talk on TV and know you are ready to control the British fleet?
[11:21] (td) know = now
[11:21] (Gog123) AMB Property Corporation(R) to Announce First Quarter Results on April 18, 2007
[11:22] * Gog123 waits till april
[11:22] (Aufk|aren) td, you're a total and unmitigated cunt.
[11:22] * Gog123 says it is now March 29th
[11:22] (JupaSaur) Aufk|aren you are relying on the very commanders that failed to adequately protect their personell to to you what was up. that's crazy
[11:22] (Aufk|aren) td: The British commanders explained why they didn't fire on the Iranians.
[11:22] (Aufk|aren) I've relayed that.
[11:22] (Aufk|aren) So unless you have some reason for knowing better than they do, shut the fuck up.
[11:22] (Aufk|aren) Now I'm eating my tea, brb.
[11:22] (astrodog) Jupa: What do you think the british should have done differently... specifically?
[11:22] (Eeyore) i do like cunts myself. but I prefer them between the legs of a woman.
[11:23] (JupaSaur) the brits should have adequate force within range to protect their people and when their people were attacked, they should have engaged the attackers
[11:23] (astrodog) I said specifically.
[11:23] (astrodog) Not general bullshit.
[11:23] (Lupine) heh.. "they had no plan!"
[11:23] (td) can we please not use that word
[11:24] (Lupine) "They have no exit strategy!"
[11:24] (astrodog) Large surface combatants have 5 or 7 inch guns, and cruise missiles.
[11:24] (astrodog) How do you see them protecting a RIB, from other small boats?
[11:24] (Aufk|aren) JupaSaur: They weren't attacked, they were surrounded and told to go into Iranian territory. If they'd engaged the Iranians, they would have been killed .
[11:24] (Aufk|aren) It's really that simple.
[11:24] (td) Aufklaren: your tea is calling
[11:24] (Aufk|aren) They were vastly outnumbered.
[11:24] (Aufk|aren) td: I'm eating it.
[11:25] (Eeyore) defending agianst the Iranian ship I can see would not have been an option. however taking descisive action now I hope is
[11:25] (CometBaby) Auf .. I know this is an adult channel .. and we use adult language .. but the term *cunt* is very offensive to some females and I've been getting complaints. Can we tone that one back a bit? :)
[11:25] (astrodog) Jupa: So, given that any of those weapons would probably destroy the RIB, along with the Iranians... what should the British have done?
[11:25] (Aufk|aren) CB: Okay, less of the c-word from me. ;)
[11:25] * Eeyore often wonders to what extent do peopple have a right not to be offended.
[11:25] (CometBaby) tanks :)
[11:25] (Eeyore) for example...
[11:25] (astrodog) Comet: Is "Twat" acceptable?
[11:26] (Eeyore) @:*} (----- prophet MOhamed
[11:26] (JupaSaur) obviously the zodiac was not in a position to protect itself. but the larger brit vessals and aircraft should have been in range to protect the zodiac and should have done so
[11:26] (uchuff) Me 8====D (_(_) u moms
[11:26] (Aufk|aren) JupaSaur: For what now must be the tenth time - they WERE in a position to protect the boats, but not from a vastly superior Iranian force which would have killed them.
[11:27] (astrodog) Jupa: How?
[11:27] (suna) lol eeyore. Well, this is irc. People have the right to say wahtever they want until an op gets pissed off and bans them. As every ircd motd says "irc is a privledge, not a right"
[11:27] (Aufk|aren) JupaSaur: You're effectively saying that we should have allowed them to kill the sailors in the RIBs in order to kill the Iranians.
[11:27] (Lupine) CometBaby: interestingly, in england.. C is less offensive.. their "Twat" is about the same as our C
[11:27] (Aufk|aren) Which, thankfully, is not the policy of the Royal Navy.
[11:27] (astrodog) Jupa: Cruise Missiles are out, because they'll kill all of the brits, too
[11:27] (astrodog) Same for a 5 inch gun.
[11:27] (astrodog) So now we've got the .50s, on the sides of the ship.
[11:27] (Eeyore) suna I know. and Im for rules of conduct. I just find that various groups tend to use thier idea of being offended as soemthing others have to be sensitive to and where that line is, concernes me. thats all.
[11:28] (suna) however in general, I get anonyed with how everything offends somebody and we're all suppose to care. So much for freedom of speech. Comedians can't even make damn jokes. (No, i'm not talking about john kerry).
[11:28] * Lupine takes offense at suna's comments
[11:28] (Eeyore) Lupine as I understand it calling a woman a cow in England is themost offensive thing. dont know why exactly. is it an udder thing?
[11:28] * suna pees on Lupine, which should offend him...hopefully
[11:28] (Lupine) Eeyore: ask Aufk|aren
[11:29] (Lupine) but i would presume so
[11:29] (Gog123) market sucks balls
[11:29] (Gog123) .40% loss today
[11:29] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: Well, calling someone a cow isn't particularly offensive. It's rude... I'd say roughly equivelant in nastiness to bitch.
[11:29] (Aufk|aren) Or, perhaps "fat bitch," slightly worse.
[11:29] (Lupine) marriages would last longer, if during their wedding vows.. the wife promises to NEVER ask the husband "Does this make me look fat?"
[11:29] (suna) lol
[11:29] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren oh ok. the woman who told me that was particularily bovine. so perhaps she was merely speaking for herlself
[11:30] (fordnut) lol cow
[11:30] (Eeyore) now... recently I asked a muslim who hated me cause I dont like Islam but was fine with him, to join me for some pork tenderloin and a few beers. he threatend to shoot me in the back
[11:30] (Eeyore) now where does it END I ASK YOU
[11:30] (CometBaby) marriages would last longer, if husbands would learn when to tell a little white lie :)
[11:30] (fordnut) The only time I've heard someone called a cow is when I went to the UK
[11:30] (Lupine) Eeyore you should have told her, that her gravitaitonal distortion was offensive to you.
[11:30] (suna) if there's one good thing about being fat, that's it. You never have to worry about clothes making you look fat, you're just fat all the time. End of story.
[11:30] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: probably. ;)
[11:30] (fordnut) and I lol'd
[11:31] (Aufk|aren) I got in trouble at school once for calling a classmate a cow.
[11:31] (Lupine) CometBaby: what lie would a woman accept? if you say "no", she accuses you of lying
[11:31] (suna) ya know women asking that crap anonys me...cause it's all lies. How do I know? cause acutal FAT women don't ask that stupid shit! They KNOW they're fat! If teh girl's asking "does this make me look fat?" ...she knows she's not fat and just wants damn attention
[11:31] (CometBaby) you look good to me babe
[11:31] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren next time try calling her a 'Manatee'
[11:31] (Yaakov) Am I fat?
[11:31] (suna) Yaakov: your nick is longer than mine. so yes.
[11:32] (CometBaby) lol
[11:32] * suna hides from cometbaby
[11:32] (Lupine) CometBaby: oh, so you are saying I am fat, but you're okay with that?
[11:32] (CometBaby) hahaha
[11:32] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: Just go all officious. Say "that depends on what the definition of big is."
[11:32] (Lupine) heh.. Aufk|aren just left his fly wide open...
[11:32] (Yaakov) I think these pants make my butt look fat.
[11:32] (Eeyore) Lupine she wasnt fat. Just bovine in manner. ok a little far
[11:32] (Eeyore) fat
[11:33] (Eeyore) speaking of which brb i have some peanut chicken in the fridge
[11:33] (suna) what anonys me is when black people call a 450 pound 5'3 girl 'tick.' I do so aplogize if somebody gets offended by this comment. However, by admiting you are offended I will forever conclude that you are 5'3" and 450 pounds
[11:33] (kluth) is it true that rohypnol is banned in the u.s?
[11:33] * celestia| is now known as celestial
[11:33] (kluth) aka roofies
[11:33] (kluth) flunitrazepam
[11:33] (Sublimer-) lol
[11:33] (CometBaby) Look once a woman has had children, it is unlikely she is ever going to look particularly slim again. So be kind to the women, and tell them "No .. you look great to me babe" :)
[11:33] (Lupine) tick?
[11:34] (Yaakov) kluth: If it permitted if mixed with meth.
[11:34] (suna) Lupine: yah, suppose to be "thick"
[11:34] (suna) maybe they dont' say that where you're from i dunno;p
[11:34] (kluth) CometBaby: sure they can, just go on an all canned tuna diet
[11:34] (Lupine) CometBaby: Oh, so no one else thinks i look great?
[11:34] (Sublimer-) so iran & our liberal left... think alike.. interesting... maybe the democrats should recruit some iranians for 2008 presidential election.
[11:34] (kluth) the tuna diet rocks
[11:34] (CometBaby) wolfy .. you don't count :)
[11:34] (suna) oh ca'mon...no more iran and liberal talk...I like the obesity talk
[11:34] (suna) so much better
[11:34] (kluth) eat nothing but tuna for months
[11:34] (Yaakov) It isn't so great for the tunas.
[11:34] (Lupine) CometBaby: just playing the role of the women in this conversation ;-)
[11:34] (suna) this channel should be renamed to #obesity
[11:34] (spagnosti) why is it okay for liberals to take religion out of schools, my people are being persecuted in u.s. schools http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/article.html?in_article_id=43272&in_page_id=2
[11:35] (kluth) Yaakov: ur a meth lover?
[11:35] (kluth) i hear some states in the u.s have meth problems
[11:35] (Yaakov) kluth: No, you are just boring.
[11:35] (spagnosti) those pirate costumes are part of my religion.
[11:35] (kluth) towns were practically everyone are on meth
[11:35] (suna) yah kluth
[11:35] (kluth) in portland, oregon like 60% are on meth
[11:35] (suna) some areas are really bad
[11:35] (suna) southern utah is really bad too, as well as many parts of california, and i'm sure there's bad areas in pretty much every state
[11:36] (kluth) why is the usa divided into states anyway?
[11:36] (Yaakov) In Seattle, Washington, 104% are on coffee.
[11:36] (kluth) always wondered about that
[11:36] (Yaakov) kluth: To confuse and annoy Norwegians, mostly.
[11:36] (Yaakov) It costs a lot, but it is worth it.,
[11:36] (kluth) why dont you just have ONE governor for all states
[11:36] (Kalomine) kluth: so we could have interstates
[11:36] (pilgrim`) kluth why s Europe?
[11:36] (kluth) schwarzenegger should be governor for all states
[11:37] (uchuff) lol
[11:37] (kluth) except hawaii, stallone can be governor there
[11:37] (pilgrim`) Chuck Norris should be gov
[11:37] (kluth) van damme for pres
[11:37] (kluth) no wait, hes euro
[11:37] (kluth) stallone then
[11:38] (suna) yes
[11:38] (CryHavoc) Van Damme is not US born
[11:38] (suna) ahnold for us governor
[11:38] (CryHavoc) Chuck Norris for President LOL
[11:38] (kluth) CryHavoc: he sounds american though
[11:38] (kluth) van damme that is
[11:38] (suna) I wonder how many write in votes chuck norris will get in 08
[11:38] (t0tgiglz) tom cruise
[11:38] (CryHavoc) Van Damme is gentrified Dutch
[11:38] (t0tgiglz) lol
[11:38] (suna) I guess it depends how much the chuck norris fad dies off by then
[11:38] (suna) :)
[11:38] (Yaakov) kluth: That state of Montana alone is bigger than Norway.
[11:38] (CryHavoc) Saen Penn for President
[11:39] (suna) yes
[11:39] (CryHavoc) Yaakov..lol
[11:39] (suna) sean penn
[11:39] (pilgrim`) Putin
[11:39] (suna) damn that guy looks like some freak I made up in a nightmare
[11:39] (Yaakov) CryHavoc: It's true.
[11:39] (suna) (penn)
[11:39] (CryHavoc) and Norways population is that of a large US city
[11:39] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: Yeah, but Montana has like six people and a dog living in it.
[11:39] (CryHavoc) I know Yaakov
[11:39] (pilgrim`) San frqan has more dykes then Amsterdam
[11:39] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: 8 people and 12 dogs.
[11:39] (CryHavoc) Auf...wrogn...8 peaople and a dog!!
[11:39] (CryHavoc) WY is the least populated US State
[11:40] (CryHavoc) ca. 600,000 there
[11:40] (kluth) just listen to van damme's american accent in this clip
[11:40] (kluth) http://badmovies.org/othermovies/bloodsport/bloodsport2.wav
[11:40] (pilgrim`) sounds great
[11:40] (Yaakov) It lacks Fjords.
[11:40] (t0tgiglz) yeah auf get it right lol
[11:40] (CryHavoc) the US had a lot of Fjords...
[11:40] (Aufk|aren) I wish Britain had some fjords.
[11:40] (CryHavoc) Fjorf Motot Comapny :P
[11:40] (Aufk|aren) But the Norwegians have them all.
[11:40] (pilgrim`) but lots of Chebbys
[11:40] (CryHavoc) we have more Fjords lol
[11:40] (Aufk|aren) They're building stockpiles of Fjords to conceal their solar-powered death rays.
[11:40] (Aufk|aren) We'll wake up one morning and the Norwegians will be running the world.
[11:40] (CryHavoc) auf..wanna hear something amusing..
[11:41] (Aufk|aren) We'll be under the jackboot of Norwegian territory.
[11:41] (pilgrim`) Fjords are loched down lakes
[11:41] (Aufk|aren) Tyranny, even.
[11:41] (CryHavoc) some brit said that the UK had more sheep then the USA
[11:41] (Kalomine) why are norwegians inordinately snotty for europeans?
[11:41] (Aufk|aren) Cry: That Brit is a bit dumb then.
[11:41] (CryHavoc) and Cattle too LOL
[11:41] (kluth) snotty?
[11:41] (kluth) what does that mean?
[11:41] (kluth) that you snort a lot?
[11:41] (CryHavoc) Norsks are not snotty...
[11:41] (Yaakov) That would be New Zealand!
[11:41] (CryHavoc) it seems however a lot seem to have some sort of sun deprivation sickness
[11:41] (Aufk|aren) The word "fjord" is fantastic.
[11:42] (pilgrim`) superior atitude...undeserved...towards others
[11:42] (starly) Floodnet
[11:42] (pilgrim`) yeah NZ has atitude
[11:42] (kluth) CryHavoc: americans dont even know where norway is located
[11:42] (CryHavoc) Fjeld is as neat
[11:42] (Aufk|aren) It's a beautiful sounding word. FJORD.
[11:42] (Aufk|aren) Australia has more sheep than people, I believe.
[11:42] (kluth) and they dont know the difference between norway and sweden
[11:42] (CryHavoc) kluth...wanna bet??
[11:42] (bun-bun) no maybe he meant that brits "HAD" more sheep in a carnal sense
[11:42] * bun-bun runs
[11:42] (pilgrim`) turn right at Iceland
[11:42] (CryHavoc) kluth..that is not the truth here..no way no how
[11:42] (VT) Vikings!
[11:42] (Yaakov) Sweden has all the good women.
[11:42] (CryHavoc) well bun-bun..if they have no more women..
[11:42] (Yaakov) Norway has the fjords.
[11:42] (VT) Vikings are saying we don't know where in the world they are?
[11:43] (Yaakov) England has tea.
[11:43] (Kalomine) kluth: actually norway is 62'00 north and 10'05 east
[11:43] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: They're hording them.
[11:43] (kluth) CryHavoc: a friend of mine talked to a obese american woman on the train once, she thought norway was in england
[11:43] (CryHavoc) kluth I can find any current country on a map..
[11:43] (CryHavoc) and even some that no longer exist
[11:43] (t0tgiglz) i love when ppl have to throw in obese rofl
[11:43] (Aufk|aren) kluth: Haha, Norway in England.
[11:43] (suna) I know where norway is located!
[11:43] (t0tgiglz) hey cry
[11:43] (Aufk|aren) NOT YET.
[11:43] (CryHavoc) Kluth...I bet a lot of Norsks think Amricans all dress like Clint Eastwood in "A Fistful of Dollars" too
[11:44] (CryHavoc) hey gigglzzzz
[11:44] (Aufk|aren) When I become dictator, Norway is first on my list.
[11:44] (t0tgiglz) hugs
[11:44] (Aufk|aren) It will be annexed.
[11:44] * suna is lying
[11:44] (CryHavoc) heh...poetic justice..
[11:44] (kluth) Aufk|aren: you germans tried it before, its not gonna work the next time either
[11:44] (suna) I couldn't find my ass when presented w/ two hands and a speical ass map
[11:44] (CryHavoc) actually Denmark should be first
[11:44] (suna) (one of the not-so-hilarious quotes from john stewart)
[11:44] (kluth) danish is annoying
[11:44] (Aufk|aren) kluth: I'm not a German.
[11:44] (CryHavoc) suna..most in this room had geography pounded into them...
[11:44] (suna) However, here is a hilarious quote from tony snow "Does it really matter who comes up with an idea?"
[11:44] (Aufk|aren) kluth: I'm British.
[11:45] (kluth) have to listen carefully to make out what they say
[11:45] (CryHavoc) I also had a stamp collection for many years..
[11:45] (kluth) Aufk|aren: close enough
[11:45] (kluth) ;p
[11:45] (Aufk|aren) lol
[11:45] (Aufk|aren) Close enough?
[11:45] (Kalomine) actually in my dealings with europeans....germans have been the most "snotty"
[11:45] (CryHavoc) kluth...Find Sungei Ujong on a map :)
[11:45] (kluth) yeah, england is next to germany
[11:45] (Yaakov) I knew a Danish girl when I was younger. When she spoke Danish it was sexy.
[11:45] (Kalomine) i was very rudely treated by germans in florida once
[11:45] (Aufk|aren) kluth: No it's not. :p
[11:45] (kluth) Yaakov: did you understand it?
[11:45] (starly) Abusive domain or user
[11:45] (CryHavoc) kluth is stuffed into his Uranus
[11:45] (Aufk|aren) kluth: England is next to Scotland and Wales. Other than that, it's next to the sea.
[11:45] (Eeyore) i ate a dansih when I was younger. the strawberry cream cheese ones are lovely
[11:45] (Yaakov) kluth: On one level.
[11:45] (FreeTrad3) Kalo, More so than French ?
[11:45] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: I ate a Danish last night.
[11:45] (kluth) Yaakov: where u from?
[11:45] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: he screamed the entire time.
[11:46] (Eeyore) Aufk|aren nice arent they
[11:46] (CryHavoc) then you have France on the NW aND w
[11:46] (Eeyore) ha!
[11:46] (Aufk|aren) Eeyore: Heh, was that bad? Yes, that was bad.
[11:46] (CryHavoc) dENMARK ON THE nORTH
[11:46] (niller) cheers
[11:46] (CryHavoc) Kluth...where is Sungei Ujong??
[11:46] (Kalomine) Free: I've never truly dealt with any frenchmen.....my dad has...and he makes fun of the french but always adds the caveat that it's parisians he doesn't like...the country folk were cool
[11:46] (kluth) CryHavoc: somewhere in asia
[11:46] (FreeTrad3) Ive found the french to be nicer while here.. But I admit I havent been to france but I have been told by a LOT of people who went to france with no animosity towards the French and said they were treated so horribly they would never return.
[11:46] (kluth) prolly
[11:46] (CryHavoc) not good enough...
[11:46] (CryHavoc) where??
[11:46] (kluth) not too far from china
[11:46] (FreeTrad3) Ive never heard anyone complain about Germany though.
[11:46] (CryHavoc) you were castigating my geography knowledge..
[11:47] (FreeTrad3) Or Ireland or England.
[11:47] (CryHavoc) **BUZZER**
[11:47] (Yaakov) Kalomine: Once I was on a plane and very tired. I reclined my seat and suddenly it sprang up. I looked behind me and there was a non-English-speaking middle-aged German couple, the man behind me with an angry scowl.
[11:47] (FreeTrad3) I think the most positive stories I have heard have been Ireland, people who went there REAALLY loved it.
[11:47] (kluth) you guys prolly dont know the name of the capital of norway
[11:47] (CryHavoc) Sungei Ujong once was a malay State..it is now part of Malaysia
[11:47] (Yaakov) Kalomine: I reclined again. He didn't repeat it. I was ready to have him restrained.
[11:47] (Eeyore) Oslo?
[11:47] (CryHavoc) Oslo
[11:47] (Aufk|aren) FT: That's because they were drunk the entire time.
[11:47] (Aufk|aren) FT: Ireland is one big pub.
[11:47] (Kalomine) Yaak: =(
[11:47] (Aufk|aren) "The Dog and Duck, otherwise known as Ireland."
[11:47] (FreeTrad3) Auf hahaha. England isnt much better ;)
[11:47] (Yaakov) Kalomine: It was surprising.
[11:47] (CryHavoc) lets have some more fun with kluth...
[11:48] (kluth) CryHavoc: have you heard about bergen and trondheim?
[11:48] (FreeTrad3) But your right, Ireland Pub life is a VERY serious part of their culture as much as the catholic church is.
[11:48] (Kalomine) Free: I do have to admit that the germans were young drunk Germans
[11:48] (CryHavoc) Kluth..where is Fezzan Ghadames?
[11:48] (Kalomine) Free: it was spring break
[11:48] (FreeTrad3) When they are out socializing they are either in a Pub or at a Church.
[11:48] (VT) Parisians!! I wonder if the rude and boring folk of Paris expect to be treated royally when they come to america.
[11:48] (VT) ?
[11:48] (kluth) CryHavoc: there are obscure countries
[11:48] (kluth) they dont count
[11:48] (kluth) these*
[11:48] (Aufk|aren) the Czechs drink more beer than anyone, funnily enough.
[11:48] (CryHavoc) not really...they issued stamps at one time......fair game IMO
[11:49] (Aufk|aren) Something like 150 liters a year per person.
[11:49] (Yaakov) Pilsner!
[11:49] (FreeTrad3) When My high school girlfriend was in Ireland, with her relatives they were in the pub every single night.. and she was only 16 or so.
[11:49] (pilgrim`) I know some people who ar ein Ireland...and they are not members of either or any church, but considering they are Pagans that may have a bearing
[11:49] (FreeTrad3) Bigoted behavior from this ip/domain
[11:49] (_rwx) %%Bigoted behavior from this ip/domain %%
[11:49] (Aufk|aren) Followed, funny enough, by the Germans.
[11:49] (Eeyore) Urquel
[11:49] (CryHavoc) many outdrink the US per captia..
[11:49] (Aufk|aren) You'd think it would be a fight-out between English, Irish and Australians.
[11:49] (CryHavoc) the US however overall consumes more beer
[11:49] (Kalomine) I'd like to go to Ireland but I have to admit I don't like Guiness..........
[11:49] (pilgrim`) the higest drinking and smoking per capita in Europe is Iceland
[11:49] (Aufk|aren) Actually, the Irish come second, then Germany.
[11:49] (FreeTrad3) Ill tell you the rudest person I ever met from another country and I dont think they realized how rude and disgusting they were was actually Canada.
[11:49] (CryHavoc) Russia has the honor of drinking more hard liquor then any other country...and the most per capita
[11:50] (CryHavoc) Auf...per capita...
[11:50] (kluth) do people use heroin in the u.s?
[11:50] (Yaakov) NO
[11:50] (Yaakov) NEVER
[11:50] (kluth) or is it rare there?
[11:50] (Eeyore) FreeTrad3 do tell please. where from in Canada?
[11:50] (FreeTrad3) WHen I was 19 or so and installing cabinests around the whole northwest I was in Southern Oregon in Medford.
[11:50] (Aufk|aren) Czech, Ireland, Germany, Australia, Austria, Britain, Belgium, Denmark, FInland, Luxembourg, Slovakia, Spain, United States.
[11:50] (CryHavoc) kluth......yes,.,..in the URban areas
[11:50] (Aufk|aren) That's the order.
[11:50] (Eeyore) Toronto? and what kind of accent did they have?
[11:50] (Aufk|aren) Of beer consumption per capita.
[11:50] (FreeTrad3) I was in a hotel because we always stayed in hotels and motels.
[11:50] (pilgrim`) Cry Russia is like the US; many countries; a non-homogenious population
[11:50] (Yaakov) PEOPLE HERE WOULD RATHER RIP OUT THEIR OWN EYEBALLS WITH TWEEZERS
[11:50] (kluth) CryHavoc: i thought the urban people snorted coke
[11:50] (CryHavoc) Oxycontin is used more in rural areas
[11:50] (crookeds) CryHavoc: and philadelphia
[11:50] (crookeds) lol
[11:50] (kluth) meth is mostly white trash?
[11:50] (kluth) maybe not
[11:51] (FreeTrad3) And some young woman said something without even blinkinger her eyes about the Nigg3rs in the USA..... (
[11:51] (CryHavoc) pilgrim..ture..but Russia with their vodka consumption...beats everyone
[11:51] (pilgrim`) meth was big with truckers in the 70s
[11:51] (crookeds) when i lived down there, philly was starting to have a huge problem with oxy and xanax
[11:51] (FreeTrad3) I was wife mouth opened shocked.
[11:51] (FreeTrad3) wife = wide
[11:51] (CryHavoc) kluth...consider the rules of attrition...
[11:51] (Kalomine) A good friend of mine is press secretary for our governor and she says she loves french culture/language but HATES Paris and Parisians...says its dirty and horrible
[11:51] (pilgrim`) what is this oxy stuff?
[11:51] (CryHavoc) Whites are still the majority in the USA..
[11:51] (FreeTrad3) My chin dropped and I was like, WHAT ?
[11:51] (CryHavoc) so more Whites in every category period
[11:51] (FreeTrad3) Canadians back then I guess were pretty ignorant about blacks.
[11:51] (FreeTrad3) But then they didnt have many
[11:52] (pilgrim`) Kalo I want to visit some French libraries. in Paris. I would hold nose
[11:52] (CryHavoc) pilgrim...a potent painkiller ...when ground up and smoked...heroin like effect
[11:52] (kluth) CryHavoc: well the next pres is gonna be an obese half asian, half black woman
[11:52] (pilgrim`) crap
[11:52] (Eeyore) FreeTrad3 Im surprised. I find my fellow Canadians to be sanctimonious arrogant pricks but rarery racist towards anyone except white males and Americans
[11:52] (Yaakov) There are more black people who are black the whites who are black, CryHavoc.
[11:52] (Kalomine) pilg: yeah...if they could ask the parisians to leave for the weekend I'd love to visit Paris
[11:52] (CryHavoc) kluth is a Norsk...interesting...
[11:52] (CryHavoc) Yaakov..what I mean is..
[11:52] (kluth) black people are in general more criminal
[11:52] (FreeTrad3) oxycontin is a damn good pain killer, if you dont crush it it will time release a morphine like sythentic drug into your system and keep your pain under control without effecting your ability to reason or your coordination.
[11:53] (CryHavoc) more white murderers...pederasts..welfare recipients...drug thugs
[11:53] (t0tgiglz) wtf kuth
[11:53] (Yaakov) kluth: I don't know if that can be supported by facts, actually.
[11:53] (kluth) CryHavoc: do you understand norsk?
[11:53] (FreeTrad3) If you crush it up, then you are getting as much as a 12 hour does in 15 minutes.
[11:53] (FreeTrad3) does = dose
[11:53] (kluth) Yaakov: in norway it sure can
[11:53] (kluth) 90% of all black people are criminals
[11:53] (CryHavoc) Kluth its what Norwegians call selves in yer language
[11:53] (FreeTrad3) Its not any more potent than morphine though.
[11:53] (FreeTrad3) Morphine Time Released.
[11:53] (FreeTrad3) same.
[11:53] (Yaakov) kluth: They are arrested in higher proportion and poorer in higher proportion--but I am not sure that means they are actually more criminal.
[11:53] (CryHavoc) though language wise..there is Norsk and Nynorsk
[11:53] (kluth) CryHavoc: that is correct, you win the prize
[11:53] (CometBaby) the rudest person I ever saw was an attendant on an Amtrack train. We were going aboard (after waiting for a train that was five hours late) .. and the woman in front of me had 3 kids. She asked him, "Where is the viewing car?". He looked at her very mean, and said "We don't allow children to run wild on this train. They have to be with an adult". Then he stared at her .. daring her to say another word.
[11:53] (kluth) norsk is norwegian for norwegian
[11:54] (CryHavoc) kluth..I prob know more about Norway then you do the USA
[11:54] (CryHavoc) kluth...aye
[11:54] (kluth) CryHavoc: lol i used to think california was a city
[11:54] (FreeTrad3) Yaak ran into that last night, Someone asserted that a certain religion raped women and I said well same could be true for christians.
[11:54] (pilgrim`) Comet government help at its fienst
[11:54] (FreeTrad3) I think the reply was like for example ?
[11:54] (kluth) its so hard to separate cities from states sometimes
[11:54] (pilgrim`) back 40 years ago, that fellow would walk home
[11:54] (kluth) i know new york is a city though
[11:54] (CryHavoc) that includes yer polytheistic past...which most in Norway do not know any more
[11:54] (CryHavoc) easy enough here..
[11:54] (CryHavoc) just think New York, NY
[11:55] (FreeTrad3) I said well. Priests, MY wifes friend who when she doesnt want to have sex he throws the bible at her saying god commands her to have sex anytime.
[11:55] (CryHavoc) City, State
[11:55] (Yaakov) FreeTrad3: Actually, the Swedish problem is real, and it is related to the way that people are being taught.
[11:55] (StarQuest) got a question about Lieberman. he was running for VP in 2000, lost, but was re-elected to the senate. i thought you weren't allowed to run for two offices at once.
[11:55] (Yaakov) FreeTrad3: It is VERY disturding.
[11:55] (Yaakov) b
[11:55] (FreeTrad3) Also consider African Christian countries where we have high rape arrests etc..
[11:55] (CryHavoc) Star...had he won..he would have resigned
[11:55] (FreeTrad3) What I said is this.. I said you can not generalize on that question about which religion rapes more.
[11:55] (kluth) so new york is both a city and a state?
[11:55] (StarQuest) CryHavoc: but he was essentially running for both offices
[11:55] (kluth) christ give me a break
[11:55] (CryHavoc) what Al Gore did in 1993
[11:55] (FreeTrad3) Its just something its impossible to get the data on.
[11:55] (bill-) kluth: yes
[11:55] (CryHavoc) Star...but only holding one
[11:55] (kluth) bill-: that is stupid
[11:55] (Eeyore) FreeTrad3 I still assert that Muslims disprortionaly rape women in Scandinavia. I have no problem with this assertion. CUlture and religion DO influence behavior. its NOT an issue of RACE and HSOULD NOT BE confused with one.
[11:55] (FreeTrad3) Your talking world wide ? And in many cultures they wont even talk about it.
[11:56] (kluth) how confusing
[11:56] (StarQuest) ok
[11:56] (CryHavoc) he can not hold more then one office
[11:56] (Yaakov) FreeTrad3: There are articles online that have a lot of information about it. It is directly related to the social training from the religious teachers.
[11:56] (FreeTrad3) And in other cultures who knows..
[11:56] (bill-) Yaakov: what's disturbing? the allegation that a certain religion is correlated with rape in Sweden?
[11:56] (kluth) norway is divided into counties
[11:56] (kluth) county or whatever its called
[11:56] (Yaakov) FreeTrad3: It isn't a *requirement* of the religion, it is an effect of the interpretation and socail norms.
[11:56] (FreeTrad3) Its just IMPOSSIBLE to say it with authority that kind of data is not even attainable.. much less available.
[11:56] (CryHavoc) Whern Clitnon/Gore won in 1992, Gore resigned his senate seat 1/19/1993
[11:56] (kluth) oslo is the only place that is both a county and a city
[11:56] (Yaakov) bill-: No.
[11:56] (crookeds) kluth: and the rest of the state has beautiful trees and is only urban in like one other place
[11:56] (bill-) Yaakov: oh, sorry. What then
[11:56] (crookeds) ok, there are a couple cities
[11:57] (CryHavoc) kluth we have some places like that
[11:57] (CryHavoc) Los Angeles is a County...and a City
[11:57] (Yaakov) bill-: And the correlation has a clear cause so you can be much more specific than the religion when characterizing.
[11:57] (kluth) CryHavoc: that is the confusing part
[11:57] (CryHavoc) not to me
[11:57] (kluth) in norway there is only one place that is a "state" and a city
[11:57] (crookeds) nyc is a city and multiple counties
[11:57] (crookeds) even more confusing
[11:57] (FreeTrad3) Yaak, I dont think all catholic preists are molestors or rapists, but then anywhere you find people who have power over children its going to be an area where pedophiles will be attracted to, whether its school teachers or priests, or others positions of authority and close contact.
[11:57] (CryHavoc) but I have studied a lot of governmental systems
[11:57] (bill-) Yaakov: combination of culture and poverty and socioeconomic marginality with an overlay of religion.
[11:57] (kluth) the u.s is chaos
[11:58] (kluth) norway is easier to keep track of
[11:58] (CryHavoc) kluth... New York is the City designation...
[11:58] (FreeTrad3) So again the point about stereotyping or generalizing on that subject is without any merit.
[11:58] (StarQuest) who "keeps track" of counties?
[11:58] (CryHavoc) NY is the state designation
[11:58] (CryHavoc) WA is Washington State
[11:58] (bill-) no, it's not without merit except to the extent it's attributed purely to religious affiliation.
[11:58] (CryHavoc) DC is the Capitol
[11:58] (kluth) StarQuest: norway is divided into 19 counties, but they are considering making them into 5 or something, cause its stupid to have 19
[11:58] (FreeTrad3) No it is without merit when applied to religions.
[11:58] (Yaakov) FreeTrad3: We are talking about an immigrant population with a specific anti-assimilation policy and social norms based on religious grounds. It is not a general thing at all, it is a specific set of circumstances.
[11:59] (FreeTrad3) It has no objective test to prove its authenticity
[11:59] (StarQuest) kluth: didn't norwegians also invent the solar-powered flashlight? :)
[11:59] (FreeTrad3) so its pointless to even make anassertion.
[11:59] (CryHavoc) From Morway...we got Weregild...Mead Halls.....and words like Quisling and Niggardly
[11:59] (bill-) but what is true is that most Muslims in Sweden are more socially and economically marginal than non-Muslims, and that there's also a higher incidence of crime among Swedish Muslims than non-Muslims generally, but not just because of the religion.
[11:59] (kluth) StarQuest: i dunno, but we inventeded the paperclip
[11:59] (kluth) and the cheese cutter
[11:59] (kluth) and the jarlsberg cheese
[11:59] (CryHavoc) Norway may have invented hard liquor...
[11:59] (FreeTrad3) Unless its a small tribal religion where forced sex is part of their religion and the religion numbers 50 adherents.
[11:59] (CryHavoc) possibly by accident
[11:59] (StarQuest) norway is cool
[11:59] (FreeTrad3) But in any serious religiou you cant make a generalization.
[11:59] (bill-) no, that's actually factually wrong.
[12:00] (FreeTrad3) You can make a guess but what is the point of making a guess ?
[12:00] (CryHavoc) Norway first to have Iron weapons in Europe
[12:00] (crookeds) i have eaten many fish from norway
[12:00] (FreeTrad3) Who is factually wrong ? I hope noone is referring to me
[12:00] (Yaakov) FreeTrad3: It is a *specific* place and population, not a general thing.
[12:00] (bill-) it's not about the religion as such, but about the correlation between the religion and the socioeconomic marginality and culture of the people in Sweden who are of that religious background who do in fact commit a disproportionately high amount of crime relative to their numbers.
[12:01] (bill-) it's factually wrong that there's no correlation between Swedish Muslims as a group and crime.
[12:01] (FreeTrad3) Yaak Its a pointless accusation Sure you can find cities or counties with higher rape
[12:01] (CryHavoc) there is causation/correlation between crime levels and fireamrs restrictions
[12:01] (bill-) it's not pointless, because it's a specific population in a specific country (or even group of countries) with a specific set of problems and a specifically higher incidence of crime per capita than their respective national norms.
[12:01] (bill-) it's not hard to understand.
[12:02] (Yaakov) FreeTrad3: When they interview young Muslim men they freely admit they see the Swedish girls as fair game because they are promiscuous. They say they will do what they want with them, then find a nice, chaste Muslim girl to marry.
[12:02] (kluth) have you guys heard about jarlsberg?
[12:02] (bill-) kluth: sure, cheese.
[12:02] (CryHavoc) Yaakov...lol ..that sounds more male then just Muslim lol
[12:02] (Yaakov) FreeTrad3: It isn't possiblt to compare the *rate* since this is *one* population, not all Muslims.
[12:02] (CryHavoc) kluth..you bet..I like Jarlsberg light
[12:02] (FreeTrad3) Well it is wrong to associate muslim religion with rape any more than christian or other because there is no evidence, the best you can do is speculate, and if you wanted to use subjective material to make guesses which are assumptions which are wortheless, The Koran considers rape a very serious matter and actually gives more rights to women than the jedeo christian bible (Pentatuch and later)
[12:02] (Yaakov) CryHavoc: They are *taught* in religious classes that women who do not cover themselves are open targets.
[12:02] (CryHavoc) tastes like Swiss...without the stench
[12:03] (CryHavoc) Yaakov...that couldb e true..
[12:03] (FreeTrad3) Now laws have changed over the years with regard to how religion is interpreted.
[12:03] (crookeds) kluth yes, but have not had it
[12:03] (bill-) ok, that has nothing to do with the actual behavior involved.
[12:03] (CryHavoc) Madrassas are guilty of a lot
[12:03] (FreeTrad3) Christianity doesnt condone rape.
[12:03] (bill-) which is cultural more than religious.
[12:03] (FreeTrad3) But neither does Islam.
[12:03] (CryHavoc) FT..Yaakov could be right though...
[12:03] (Yaakov) CryHavoc: It is, and it is very disturbing.
[12:03] (CryHavoc) a Madrassas with the right sdpin on a Q'uran
[12:03] (kluth) 90% of all the jarlsberg cheese made in norway is exported to the united states
[12:03] (Yaakov) The problem isn't Islam, it is the immigrant Muslim population in *one* place and its "leaders".
[12:04] (kluth) americans sure like cheese
[12:04] (bill-) it really doesn't have anything to do, for the 3rd time, with the religion, purely, or as such, but with the degree to which religion and culture overlap and those in turn overlap with socioeconomic marginality and crime rates.
[12:04] (bill-) again, for the third time.
[12:04] (CryHavoc) kluth...it is a favorite sandwich cheese here :)
[12:04] (FreeTrad3) But let me ask you this, if someone says to their wife, I dont want to have sex tonight please dont.. And they say look the bible says you must satisfy your man whenever he has a desire (Which in a strict interpretation it is construed that way by many christians), Is that not a form of rape ?
[12:04] (FreeTrad3) When she is not willing ?
[12:04] (Yaakov) They consider themselves separate and consider the girls sub-human. It is a bad thing.
[12:04] (Eeyore) Yaakov Tomayto tomato
[12:04] (pilgrim`) the scene requiring that one Brit gal to put on her beanie for allah scarf says more about that culture...
[12:04] (FreeTrad3) And he is manipulating her to have sex with fear of damnation ?
[12:04] (CryHavoc) FT...the Q'uran book of Woman is far far worse
[12:04] (FreeTrad3) Its very close to rape if it is not rape.
[12:04] (bill-) ok, that has about zero to do with what was being discussed.
[12:05] (CryHavoc) Yaakov...easy way to counter that...
[12:05] (Yaakov) FreeTrad3: But this isn't about Islam, it is about the people in Sweden.
[12:05] (bill-) but what about pontoon bridges? they're not the best kind of bridge, and..
[12:05] (FreeTrad3) Actually the Koran text is much better toward women than the judeo christian text,any religious scholar will tell you that.
[12:05] (CryHavoc) teach the gals...any rapist should be dead...
[12:05] (kluth) do they sell coke in the u.s?
[12:05] (FreeTrad3) But whats in a text and what is practice is different.
[12:05] (pilgrim`) bill there, in Iran, Shi'a and culture, SHi'a and politcs are all one
[12:05] (CryHavoc) FT..I beg to Differ...
[12:05] (CryHavoc) the Book of Woman is outright vicious
[12:05] (Yaakov) FreeTrad3: I can't agree with that from a Jewish perspective.
[12:05] (bill-) gee funny then that women are treated so much worse in every muslim country with only marginal exceptions
[12:05] (FreeTrad3) Cry I know it for a fact, So There is nothign to differ on unless one wants to invent reality.
[12:06] (FreeTrad3) Here is where you can move away from the text.
[12:06] (bill-) you do?
[12:06] (CryHavoc) FT..I read the Q'uran.and I read the bible..
[12:06] (CryHavoc) strict bible interpetation gets that cluse yes..
[12:06] (kluth) mcdonalds, burger king, and 7 eleven are in norway only
[12:06] (FreeTrad3) By examining the cultural and legal practices of the community and locality of where you are studying rape.
[12:06] (CryHavoc) but I would not have to be strict with the Q'uran to get the same effect
[12:06] (FreeTrad3) Cry, I read not only the books but I haver spent a lot of time reading scholars of comparative religion.
[12:06] (bill-) which isn't all that relevant when talking about an immigrant community alien to those practices and which exists in large numbers and is very new.
[12:07] (Eeyore) CryHavoc how do you like Luke 19:27?
[12:07] (FreeTrad3) Come on its denial, Read leviticus right now.
[12:07] (CryHavoc) LOL Norway McDonalds...the Whaler Snadwich is exactly that
[12:07] (bill-) yeah, but then there's practice.
[12:07] (FreeTrad3) It treats women like horse shit
[12:07] (bill-) kidn of matters.
[12:07] (FreeTrad3) and women have no rights
[12:07] (CryHavoc) read The Book of Woman
[12:07] (kluth) there are 68 mcdonalds restaurants in norway
[12:07] (pilgrim`) the Bible the Koran and the Talmud all place women is a catagory seperate from men that fact alone says things that are not so nice about patriarchal religious structures; btw, the Vedas and Avesta are the same
[12:07] (kluth) is that a lot?
[12:07] (kluth) how many are there in the u.s?
[12:07] (FreeTrad3) COmpare it to the koran and you wont find anything as bad.
[12:07] (CryHavoc) kluth....lol
[12:07] (truthman) 2 all whale patties, special sauce lettuce cheese...
[12:07] (bill-) kluth: not really, per capita.
[12:07] (FreeTrad3) IN fact a moslem man is duty obligated to please his wife.
[12:07] (FreeTrad3) But that doesnt mean in practice it happens.
[12:07] (bill-) I bet it's a lot more per capita, tell you that
[12:07] (CryHavoc) errr...A big city would have more in just that city
[12:08] (FreeTrad3) SO what I am trying to do is seperate cultural practice (Reality) From Religious Text..
[12:08] (FreeTrad3) Which is quite different.
[12:08] (CryHavoc) bbiab...shower and food time....then goods inspection
[12:08] (pilgrim`) Free in Iran, that is impossible
[12:08] (Eeyore) FreeTrad3 secular cuktures demand that women please themselves and men watch TV. now thats civilisation
[12:08] (kluth) CryHavoc: well, only the main cities in norway have mcdonalds
[12:08] (FreeTrad3) TOday in the west women have a lot of respect generally, though thats even debatable.
[12:08] (kluth) so oslo prolly has like 30 or something
[12:08] (SweetLeaf) They hate us that is enough for me
[12:08] (kluth) almost 30 anyway
[12:08] (bill-) what it does mean is that practice and theory are obviously totally different, even diametrically, since despite your assertions about the 'better' treatnment the Quran offers women, in reality the worst place to be a woman is in a Muslim country.
[12:08] (StarQuest) mcdonald's is horrible
[12:08] (pilgrim`) That would be like attempting to look at the politics sans Christianity when speakign to a envoy from Vatican City
[12:08] (SweetLeaf) Religion is weird
[12:08] (truthman) moslem men probably don't go down
[12:08] (SweetLeaf) made up by a man
[12:09] (SweetLeaf) so he could get laid
[12:09] (kluth) lol there are only 9 burger king restaurants in oslo
[12:09] (kluth) that aint a lot
[12:09] (FreeTrad3) And Muslims I know muslim families and I have read articles in the religious magazine "First things" (Google it) its by christians and jews mostly.. THat talk about the respect muslim women are accorded by their religion.
[12:09] (kluth) wtf is up with that?
[12:09] (kluth) only 9?
[12:09] (bill-) it's not really debatable if you're comparing Western countries to Muslim ones.
[12:09] (rond) they are just getting started
[12:09] (suna) mcdonalds is fantastic
[12:09] (suna) oh, i mean, obesity
[12:09] (suna) ;/
[12:09] (Eeyore) SweetLeaf no religion is mostly an arrested game of telephone. once man discovered you could preserve words in writing some idiot decided to write down thier folk history and then other idiots figured cause it was written, it must be true.
[12:09] (FreeTrad3) There was a time in the 80s when Christians, Jews and muslims in america came together to fight off secular influences which they found to be demeaning to women, perverse, pornographic etc.
[12:09] (bill-) what does that random anecdote have to do with the well known and widespread trends
[12:09] (kluth) i lol french fries with butter and cream
[12:10] (kluth) love
[12:10] (bill-) ew
[12:10] (kluth) dipped in sugar
[12:10] (suna) if you're gonna eat fast food, there's better tasting ways to get fat than mcdonalds
[12:10] (kluth) suna: yeah mcd is ok, but its not that good
[12:10] (kluth) sure its better than tuna in water
[12:10] (truthman) suna: like what
[12:10] (Eeyore) suna is a Harveys man I see
[12:10] (FreeTrad3) they felt they had common cause in these areas because the religious people of these 3 religions find a lot of popular culture and television disgusting and i cant say I disagree with them on all of that.
[12:10] (SweetLeaf) Muslims live in another century
[12:10] (FreeTrad3) 911 has changed the view of the world.
[12:11] (kluth) suna: try going a couple of days without food, youd kill for a few big macs
[12:11] (kluth) except if ur on meth, but thats cheating
[12:11] (StarQuest) i haven't eaten at mcdonald's in over three years
[12:11] (kluth) cause when ur on meth u never go hungry
[12:11] (FreeTrad3) also there has been a radicalizing of Muslims in SOME parts of the world (Not all) in the last 20 years or so which led up to 911..
[12:11] (kluth) which is why there arent many obese meth addicts
[12:11] (bill-) most, actually.
[12:11] (kluth) meth abuse is by far the best way to lose weight
[12:11] (Eeyore) FreeTrad3 no 9-11 is just when many americans noticed how much had already changed. it woke a few up to teh current crisis of culture and clash of eras. thats all. it has progressed WAY farther than most even here would care to admit.
[12:11] * chrisf_ is now known as chrisf
[12:12] (kluth) well if u tried every way there is and ur still fat
[12:12] (FreeTrad3) THere was a time a westernor could visit arab countries without worrying about their lives other than thieves and opportunistic crimes.. Same with Parts of Asia which now I would tread carefully in.
[12:12] (kluth) id hit it
[12:12] (FreeTrad3) it wasnt long ago.
[12:12] (truthman) muslims were radicalized by muhammad about 1000 years ago
[12:12] (Eeyore) FreeTrad3 hell if I posted facts (whihc I do from tme to time) about Islam in the western world most would call me a liar or claim it isnt really that way.
[12:12] (kluth) meth all the way baby
[12:12] (pilgrim`) We as a culture, we as a species must...eventualy ...and I stress this..MUST put away the superstiton of religon. Christianity has already suffered the stuffings kicked out by science, the reformation and a500 year battle with people using their minds. Islam has never faced this challenge...yet
[12:12] (niller) haha
[12:12] (kluth) fuck all this talk about meth is bringing back my cravings
[12:12] (FreeTrad3) So I come back to my point is is a falsehood to try to claim that one religion rapes more than the other religion because that type of data just does not exist.
[12:12] (FreeTrad3) Maybe in sweden it does..
[12:12] (StarQuest) no one but you is talking about meth...
[12:12] (kluth) id fucking suck cock for meth right now
[12:12] (FreeTrad3) But if so its the country not the religion.
[12:12] (kluth) and im not gay
[12:13] (kluth) so thats saying how desperate i am
[12:13] -FreeTrad3:#politics- kluth has been Shitlisted Porn Ads!
[12:13] (bill-) well, yes and no. Richard Burton had to dress in local garb in order not to be killed attempting to enter Mecca.
[12:13] (truthman) pilgrim: religion is the only thing preventing total chaos
[12:13] (niller) meth doesnt make you gay - weed does
[12:13] (bill-) Westerners traveling regularly had to do so when traveling there
[12:13] (Eeyore) FreeTrad3 it does man. hey FreeTrad3 do you believe that in EWUrope Gypsies are more likely to steal than other groups? yes or no please
[12:13] (rond) what an idiot
[12:13] (pilgrim`) truth: no, it is the source of more chaos then any other malady in human existence
[12:13] (rond) anyone talking about meth like that ?????
[12:14] (FreeTrad3) And Truthman, you aremissing a whole period of time where muslims tried to modernize and westenize and many actually did.
[12:14] (pilgrim`) bill indeed. I read his book
[12:14] (t0tgiglz) hewas a idiot anyway
[12:14] (FreeTrad3) Even Saudi Arabia tried to.
[12:14] (rond) I wasn't paying to much attention till not tot
[12:14] (truthman) pilgrim: most killing is in africa.. and it ain't over religion
[12:14] (rond) looked up and saw that
[12:14] (FreeTrad3) IM sick of dealing with bigoted stupidity
[12:14] (FreeTrad3) Hey t0t!
[12:14] (pilgrim`) truth killing happens everywhere. chaos is what I said and meant.
[12:15] (t0tgiglz) oh you missed his ignorant statements about black ppl
[12:15] (Eeyore) FreeTrad3 you didnt answer my question.
[12:15] (t0tgiglz) he lost me then
[12:15] (truthman) most killings in inner cities arent being done by the religious
[12:15] (t0tgiglz) hey ft
[12:15] (FreeTrad3) Islam at one time was way more advanced and civilized than the west
[12:15] (pilgrim`) Free one time
[12:15] (FreeTrad3) then they reversed directions
[12:15] (FreeTrad3) Pilgrim many here would deny efver
[12:15] (FreeTrad3) becausee of thier blind bigotry
[12:15] (Eeyore) FreeTrad3 NO IT WASNT. Arabs where BEFORE islamic precepts where ever enforced. This is not from me its from ISLAMIC scholars
[12:15] (FreeTrad3) See ?
[12:15] (pilgrim`) 13th cent AD is about the break point
[12:15] (FreeTrad3) NO IT WASNT
[12:15] (FreeTrad3) Where do you think Chivalry came from ?
[12:16] (pilgrim`) Spain
[12:16] (FreeTrad3) Spontaneous Western Eruption ?
[12:16] (Eeyore) FreeTrad3 read some history man. Moahemd didnt even teach till what 500 AD)?
[12:16] (Eeyore) jesus man
[12:16] (pilgrim`) 632
[12:16] (FreeTrad3) It was taught by Middle east today to europeans.
[12:16] (FreeTrad3) What we call the middle east today
[12:16] (truthman) i think a lot of muslims are bi-sexual
[12:16] (FreeTrad3) NO he wasnt born in 500 ad
[12:17] (FreeTrad3) Eeyore, I read a lot of history never insult me about hat.
[12:17] (FreeTrad3) that
[12:17] (bill-) yeah, about 500-600 years ago.
[12:17] (FreeTrad3) Ill skull fuck any bigot on this channel.....Be honest.. Why do people fear honesty ?
[12:17] (bill-) he died in 632, born about 570.
[12:17] (Eeyore) jesus FreeTrad3 we are on the same side man but your self blinkering with cultural relativism. Msulims DO rape more in Europe because of their belief in how women should dress and act. this is confirmed by even feminsit groups in Scandinavia and thier own police. Gypsies do not think of private property the same way and DO steal more but they dont think its theft neccesarily etc
[12:17] (bill-) wow, that's an appropriate reply.
[12:18] (FreeTrad3) YES HE WASNT BORN IN 500 AD
[12:18] (FreeTrad3) WHo needs a history lesson ?
[12:18] (bill-) super freak, super freak, he's super freakkkyyy
[12:18] (FreeTrad3) Look, use your reason folks not your prejudices.
[12:18] (bill-) not me, and not from you.
[12:18] (FreeTrad3) USe facts and reality
[12:18] (FreeTrad3) dont invent crap because you simply want to believe it.
[12:18] (Eeyore) FreeTrad3 Im not insulting you man I dont dislike you at all. but you are making statements that are historcally UNTRUE. The Arabs and Moores DID bring Greek leariong back to Europe after the Catholic CHurch destroyed it. The Arabs where a highly civilized people till Islam DESTROYED it after 1300 or so
[12:18] (bill-) who's inventing? the crime stats EXIST.
[12:18] (bill-) super freakkkkyy..
[12:18] (t0tgiglz) um im catholic and actually a honest to god question when was jesus really born im talking month cus i know it wasnt at xmas as were told is that right
[12:19] (FreeTrad3) I am well aware that Islam took a turn for the dark ages.
[12:19] (FreeTrad3) but it hasnt always been like it is now, or like it was at its worst
[12:19] (truthman) actually the irish saved all the intellectual ideas and re-educated europe after the dark ages
[12:19] (Sublimer-) t0tgiglz: xmas is just a certain date put on the calendar.
[12:19] (t0tgiglz) i know that
[12:20] (t0tgiglz) thats why im asking what month was he actually born
[12:20] (Sublimer-) t0tgiglz: they weren't going by the roman calendar at the time. i don't believe.
[12:20] (Eeyore) FreeTrad3 no argument with your last startement. I have no beef with Arabs. I do with Islam as it is today. I have no beef with the Germans. I do with Nazisim and I have no beef with Russians. some of the hottest chicks on earth but i think Communism is fucking scary
[12:20] (FreeTrad3) Chivalry is the generic term for the knightly system of the Middle Ages and for virtues and qualities it inspired in its followers. The word evolved from terms such as chevalier (French), caballero (Spanish), and cavaliere (Italian), all meaning a warrior who fought on horseback. The term came to mean so much more during medieval times.
[12:20] (Eeyore) can you not FreeTrad3 see teh disctinction between a group a cuklture and a philsophy?
[12:21] (FreeTrad3) Western Europe aggressively sought to expand its area of control. The first orders of chivalry were very similar to the monastic orders of the era. Both sought the sanctification of their members through combat against "infidels" and protection of religious pilgrims, and both had commitments that involved the taking of vows and submitting to a regulation of activities.
[12:21] (FreeTrad3) What this history doesnt tell you is its origin
[12:21] (pilgrim`) I would look to two sources: one the Moors 2 the Albegensian civilization, commonly called the Carthars
[12:21] (truthman) there is no history except for rich and poor
[12:22] (Yaakov) Lupine?
[12:22] (pilgrim`) btw, for a good and readable discussion on the Sunni Shi'a schism in Islam, and indeed the origins of ISlam read http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/islam/shia/geness.html
[12:22] (FreeTrad3) In the 9th and 10th centuries, western Europe was under attack by invading forces of Vikings, Magyars, Muslims, and other tribes. These invaders were often expert in waging war on horseback.
[12:23] (FreeTrad3) Its still disputed but every intellectual I have talked to who has taught world history tells me it came not from europe or anglo saxons
[12:23] (pilgrim`) Free going back to Rome, the "Equuati" or Horse Guard, were the aristocrats of Roman arms.
[12:23] (FreeTrad3) The exact region or group responsible for the primary influence of chivalry’s birth is, however, often debated. Some scholars have traced it to 12th century France while others maintain that it is of Arabic origin, transmitted to Europe through Muslim Spain.
[12:24] (FreeTrad3) Ihave heard mostly the latter
[12:24] (FreeTrad3) Muslim Spain
[12:24] (Harsen) 71 per cent of Quebecers wanting to "scrap any combat role for the Canadian Forces
[12:24] (astrodog) Err
[12:24] (astrodog) Any?
[12:24] (pilgrim`) armor and the horse; these were signs of 1 welath, 2 being a man of arms
[12:24] (FreeTrad3) But it would be natural for the west to try to take credit for it as the history is written by victors.
[12:24] (FreeTrad3) SO pilgrim guessed it right at the beggining.
[12:24] (Eeyore) Harsen doesnt surprise me one bit. QUbecrs have always been divorced from reality. The consequence of molly codeling. its why they need to be a seperate state
[12:25] (FreeTrad3) And professors Ive talked to have said the same.
[12:25] (FreeTrad3) Many muslims were considered very charitable and chivalrous.
[12:25] (pilgrim`) Free I am in my Roman kick now, reading tacitus, Cicero Pliny th eElder and other such
[12:25] (FreeTrad3) People changed with the times
[12:25] (pilgrim`) also Mihi Loquitur parva Latine sunt
[12:25] (FreeTrad3) Pilgrim, I am most back on economic studies lately having just studied the civil war some more.
[12:25] (truthman) this is a good dr phil
[12:26] (pilgrim`) I am reading the above, in Latin as exercise ;)
[12:26] (pilgrim`) Cicero was a brilliant man
[12:26] (Eeyore) bbl guys thanks for the chat
[12:26] (pilgrim`) bbl, I too must run
[12:27] (FreeTrad3) But what is the debate here ? Is the debate on chivalry ? no. THe purpose of this whole exercise of mine is to demonstrate how peoples not just people but peoples change over time historically, Muslims were not always "radical like Usama bin Laden" and even today the majority are not.
[12:27] (FreeTrad3) Most people when they think of muslims they think of the middle east and arabs.
[12:27] (FreeTrad3) Well arabs are only a tiny percent of muslims
[12:27] (FreeTrad3) they are 15%
[12:27] (astrodog) FT: Aren't most muslims Asian?
[12:28] (truthman) it isn't a towel on their heads either.. its a turban
[12:28] (FreeTrad3) and even amongst them there has been periods of different behavior historically
[12:28] (astrodog) (Indoneasa, etc.)
[12:28] (FreeTrad3) a couple centuries ago jews and arab muslims lived together in relative peace.
[12:28] (FreeTrad3) WIth times of passions flared but times of peace as well.
[12:28] (FreeTrad3) There is nothign which makes Jews natural enemies of Muslims.
[12:29] (FreeTrad3) Cultural changes and politics have changed some relationships over time.
[12:29] (truthman) why dont the jews and arabs just have one final battle to determine the winner
[12:30] (td) a couple centuries ago Jews could live in palestine in peace, then they wanted to own it
[12:30] (Lupine) truthman: as the arabs would loose
[12:30] (FreeTrad3) Its like people assume christians are some noble species of humanity, well first they are not a species, secondly it was just a few centuries ago when in europe people were being drawn and quartered, Stretched on machines and such barbarism as we cant imagine was being employed routinely.
[12:30] (Lupine) and isreal is content with their slice of the middle east
[12:30] (FreeTrad3) just a few hundred years ago..
[12:31] (truthman) why would they lose?
[12:31] (FreeTrad3) You see the seen in braveheart ? Though the movie was fiction the torture of wallace methods were very realistic
[12:31] (FreeTrad3) ONly one part they didnt show is usually at the end the great crowds would tear the human flesh apart and pass it around to others who were observing this blood orgy
[12:32] (FreeTrad3) Stop living in a world of fantasy about history.. Much of it if not most ofit has been ugly for most people.
[12:32] (FreeTrad3) Feudalism is a great way of life..
[12:32] (truthman) feudalism is alive and well
[12:33] (FreeTrad3) It wasnt until the 17th century till the word middle class had any meaning.
[12:33] (FreeTrad3) and then only it was beggining and mostly in England
[12:33] (truthman) "serf grade 2"
[12:33] (FreeTrad3) People almost all people were born into some form of slavery unless you were lucky and were from nobility.
[12:33] (FreeTrad3) Evben king darius the 2nd or 3rd treated his people much better than the west did.
[12:34] (FreeTrad3) And our great hero Alexander just wiped people out murdered them and took their spoils for pure conquest and no other reason.
[12:34] (FreeTrad3) The goal was not political, monetary, or anything specifically it was conquest.
[12:35] (FreeTrad3) Alexander believed himself to be a demigod.
[12:35] (FreeTrad3) Human and god.
[12:35] (FreeTrad3) So back to the origin of this whole thread.
[12:36] (FreeTrad3) There is no possible way in 2007 to measure the degree of rape which occurs in religions vs other religions let me specificallys ay because of their size, Christianity vs Islam today.
[12:36] (truthman) maybe he was a demigod
[12:36] (FreeTrad3) We dont know which religious people rape more.
[12:36] (FreeTrad3) we dont have a clue
[12:36] (FreeTrad3) And rape is not condoned in either religion
[12:37] (FreeTrad3) this is the thing which set me off
[12:37] (FreeTrad3) it was being discussed yesterday too.
[12:37] (truthman) the bible says you can rape as long as you marry the rapee
[12:37] (FreeTrad3) Such generalizations are not only wrong they are perverse and immoral.
[12:37] (Aufk|aren) Alexander didn't believe himself a demigod. He thought he was a descendant of Achilles, but he didn't believe that one of his parents was a god.
[12:38] (td) Aufklaren: who are you to judge FreeTrade's facts, don't you realize how many books he has read
[12:39] (FreeTrad3) Well, True as I said there are texts particularly in judeo-christianity which condone what some people would definately define as rape today.. But religion is not in the text it is in the practioner.. The believer the adherent.. How he views modern judeo christian values, Most I am sure consider rape a horrible crime.
[12:39] (FreeTrad3) and sin
[12:39] (FreeTrad3) and also you find with islam as you do our texts in the west, contradictions as well.
[12:40] (FreeTrad3) And when people chose to only accept the worst translation of one and the best of the other they are being intellectually dishonest.
[12:40] (FreeTrad3) and horribly so.
[12:40] (td) You know what I like, when Christians commit horrible acts, other christians are comfortable just saying they arent real christians and moving on.
[12:40] (truthman) rape wasn't even a crime until what? the 18th century?
[12:41] (bill-) yes, there is.
[12:41] (FreeTrad3) The religion of Submission (Islam in Arabic), like all the monotheistic religions, looks down with disgrace on all kinds of crimes, including of course sexual crimes. Rape, being a combination of several kinds of crimes wrapped in one name is therefore, one of the worst.
[12:41] (FreeTrad3) td exactly
[12:41] (FreeTrad3) good point
[12:41] (bill-) see, when there's a WHOLE BIG NEW COMMUNITY of MUSLIMS who are EASILY IDENTIFIABLE by NAME and/or APPEARANCE.
[12:42] (SweetLeaf) I keep hearing there are quite a few gay muslims
[12:42] (SweetLeaf) because they are kept from women
[12:42] (bill-) because Swedes generally don't look much like those immigrants. Or have names similar to them.
[12:42] (FreeTrad3) In addition to condemnation of the sexual crime involved in rape as we can see above, God strongly condemns the oppression element of rape in the strongest possible language. God, in the Quran, describes oppression as "worse than murder." This puts rape among the worst crimes committed by a human being in the sight of God.
[12:43] (bill-) it's not, for the now fourth time, purely about religion, but the degree to which the religion is a measure of a different cultural and national origin.
[12:43] (FreeTrad3) From the above Quranic position we see that Rape is one of the hideous crimes and one of the worst in the sight of God. It is considered a complicated crime that involves violence, oppression and sex.
[12:43] (FreeTrad3) The punishment for such crime however was not assigned any one specific punishment to allow every case to be judged individually and according to every community standard keeping in mind that it is one of the worst crimes and therefore expected to be given the worst punishment permitted under the civil law allowed in every community.
[12:43] (FreeTrad3) 24:30] Tell the believing men that they shall subdue their eyes (and not stare at the women), and to maintain their CHASTITY. This is purer for them. GOD is fully Cognizant of everything they do.
[12:43] (FreeTrad3) [24:31] And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their CHASTITY.
[12:43] (FreeTrad3) There is both religions
[12:44] (FreeTrad3) Neither condone rape
[12:44] (bill-) ok, nevermind.
[12:44] (FreeTrad3) though there are elements in particularly the bible because it is so large, which can be interpreted to accept some forms of rape.
[12:44] (bill-) sometimes it's just not worth it.
[12:45] (truthman) there would be a lot more rape if it wasn't illegal
[12:45] (FreeTrad3) I stated at the outset that geography and culture of certain countries and areas treat things differently
[12:46] (FreeTrad3) I am sure in some ISlamic tribes rape is too common but I am similarly sure this is ture in some christian communities.
[12:46] (Harsen) HAIFA, Israel - Arab lesbians quietly defied Islamist protesters and a social taboo to gather at a rare public event Wednesday in a northern Israeli city.
[12:46] (Harsen) Many of the attendees said they were sad that the only place safe enough to hold a conference for gay Arab women was in a Jewish area of Haifa, which has a mixed Arab-Jewish population. Israel's Jewish majority is generally tolerant of homosexuality.
[12:46] (FreeTrad3) *Islam (Submission) treats both men and women equally and a woman victim of rape cannot be blamed for the crime that happened to her. There is no where in the Quran any indication to blame the rape victim instead of blaming the rapist. When and if this happens, it does not represent Islam but represents cultural understanding and man made laws, not God's commands in the Quran.
[12:47] (FreeTrad3) I only defend islam right now because it was the object of attack. Had it been christianity I would of taken a more defensive role toward it.
[12:47] (FreeTrad3) Or judaism
[12:47] (truthman) dont muslims kill victims of rape though?
[12:47] (FreeTrad3) Bill I think has disrespected me, I shall review the logs and make a determination of whether he may stay here or not.
[12:48] (FreeTrad3) Truthman, depends on the country the laws of the country, secular law and so on, but yes the book says kill them.
[12:48] (FreeTrad3) yes
[12:48] (astrodog) BillFrugg?
[12:48] (FreeTrad3) or infers it
[12:48] (truthman) so doesnt that make islam a more violent religion
[12:48] (FreeTrad3) as the bible stoned rapists, and sometimes punished the raped and that happens in islam too but thats cultural
[12:48] (FreeTrad3) not quaranic
[12:48] (FreeTrad3) if such is a word
[12:48] (FreeTrad3) brb
[12:48] (FreeTrad3) i need to review the scroll.
[12:48] (truthman) you said the religion was really the people who practice it and how they behave in modern times
[12:49] (truthman) i've never heard of a christian killing a rape victim
[12:50] (astrodog) truth: Evil, is evil. Its not a function of the religion.
[12:50] (FreeTrad3) Ok first of all, Auf ? SHort of a scholar I am an expert on Alexander if an expert is defined as someone who has studied him in depth and made him an object of his study for some time. Actually more of a semi expert or minor expert. Not to the degree of scholar..
[12:51] (FreeTrad3) YEs Alexander did believe himself to be a form of god.
[12:51] (FreeTrad3) And he wanted to immortalize himself.
[12:51] (FreeTrad3) Back to reading the scroll.
[12:52] (truthman) anyone who names their child "alex" is advocated the behavior of alexander the great
[12:52] (Aufk|aren) FT: I don't think Alexander literally believed himself a god. He adopted customs that was supposed to make the public think that. It's the same thing dictators have done since the dawn of time - con people into thinking they are a deity.
[12:52] (Aufk|aren) FT: For example, Alexander adopted the custom of making his inferiors kiss his hands (which was Persian in origin). However, amongst the Greeks, this was the preserve of deities.
[12:53] (truthman) all leaders are con men
[12:53] (Aufk|aren) Alexander believed himself a man of destiny, and he believed he was descended from gods, but he didn't honestly think he was a deity himself.
[12:53] (Aufk|aren) Though he was happy to encourage others to do so.
[12:54] (astrodog) Hey, FT... what do you know about blood donation? I'm kinda wondering how that process works, after someone's given blood.
[12:54] (FreeTrad3) [12:19] (bill-) super freak, super freak, he's super freakkkyyy (- I can only presume that was aimed at me based on context. I am way back in scroll somewhere so I cant see current comments, but t0t you are right Jesus was most likely born int the spring and 2 years approximately different than what we have recorded as his birth. bbiab
[12:54] (FreeTrad3) Stille xaming the scroll
[12:55] (Aufk|aren) FT: I don't think bill- was aiming the super freaky thing at you. I think he was just singing.
[12:55] (FreeTrad3) Ok I am ack..
[12:55] (FreeTrad3) back
[12:55] (FreeTrad3) Um, Iwas never denying that in Sweden something might be true..
[12:55] (astrodog) FreeTrad3, what do you know about blood donation? I'm kinda wondering how that process works, after someone's given blood.
[12:56] (FreeTrad3) In fact my whole point was that these things have more to do with geography and nationality and secular laws and interpretations by particular people than they do the religion itself.
[12:56] (Harsen) Condi was just on Hannity
[12:56] (Harsen) Pretty good
[12:56] (truthman) i like her even less than i like cheney
[12:56] (observer) harsen, his radio show?
[12:56] (Harsen) Yeah
[12:57] (FreeTrad3) Astro, I only know you can give blood so much per period (Maybe a unit a week ? I dont know) I know you have to pass a questionere and if you have any communicable diseases remotely possible of even scaring people away from blood they will deny your blood.
[12:57] (FreeTrad3) I know if you want ot give blood you can call your local red cross.
[12:57] (astrodog) I mean after its given.
[12:57] (astrodog) What happens to it?
[12:57] (truthman) i would only sell it.. god knows the hospital makes money off it
[12:58] (FreeTrad3) After its given you rest a bit, they often give you some small mourishment (Orange juice of something maybe a little water) and then you go..
[12:58] (FreeTrad3) they dont want you passing out
[12:58] (astrodog) No no. To the blood. :P
[12:58] (FreeTrad3) The blood is heated...
[12:58] (FreeTrad3) for one thing.
[12:58] (FreeTrad3) It goes through processing..
[12:58] (astrodog) Ah.
[12:58] (FreeTrad3) I dont know everything about it.
[12:58] (FreeTrad3) I just know some of it.
[12:59] (FreeTrad3) Audf, Bill was obviously perturbed by me.
[12:59] (astrodog) Gotcha.
[12:59] (astrodog) Hmm.
[12:59] (astrodog) That reminds me...
[12:59] (FreeTrad3) there are a few people on this channel who I would say have bigoted tendencies though they arent consciously bigoted. Or Maybe I am being to kind.
[12:59] (FreeTrad3) Maybe they are
[12:59] (astrodog) There's whole blood, and plasma, right? (They take whole blood?)
[13:00] (FreeTrad3) I know when they get together they act like a pack of wolves..
[13:00] (FreeTrad3) Boys who are patting each other on the back and throwing reasoin out the window and faking reason as an excuse fo their prejudices.
[13:00] (FreeTrad3) And Ill say they are not left wingers.
[13:00] (FreeTrad3) they are from my general political side....
[13:00] (truthman) whats wrong with prejudice? everyone has them
[13:01] (FreeTrad3) Truthman see
[13:01] (FreeTrad3) thats the kind of fucking rebuttal I get to these thigns.
[13:01] (FreeTrad3) Its not the natural prejudices we all have
[13:01] (astrodog) truth: Because its a believe, without a basis in fact.
[13:01] (FreeTrad3) its particular strong prejudices which border on bigotry
[13:01] (truthman) well it exists for some reason
[13:01] (crookeds) there is only a problem with prejudice if you let it cloud your mind and don't accept reason at all
[13:02] (FreeTrad3) Look, I am not denying that discrimination and prejudice are existant in probably most of us.
[13:02] (astrodog) truth: Yes. People are kinda designed to be prejudiced to some extent, I think.
[13:02] (FreeTrad3) Its what we do with it
[13:02] (FreeTrad3) and whether we feed it or whether we temper it with intelligent reasoning.
[13:02] (truthman) like likes like
[13:03] (FreeTrad3) Example, I see a black guy a block away, I get a tiny bit of fear maybe even danger sense and maybe with a white guy I dont..
[13:03] (FreeTrad3) But do I feed my fear ?
[13:03] (astrodog) FT: Any thoughts on this brit thing? Earlier Jupa was saying they should keep the ships up close.
[13:03] (truthman) have you ever been mugged though?
[13:04] (FreeTrad3) Or do I say look this guy doesnt look threatening, Hes carrying a breifcase and a newspaper looks like hes coming hjome from work..
[13:04] (FreeTrad3) Or as he gets closer to I see gang insignia..
[13:04] (FreeTrad3) Same with a white guy
[13:04] (FreeTrad3) A block away I may have no concern by prejudice
[13:04] (cyberfrg) hi
[13:04] (cyberfrg) so newt had some interesting ideas
[13:04] (FreeTrad3) butas he gets closer and I see the swastika on his arm tattooed I start getting prepared, the fight or flight instinct gets aroused.
[13:04] (cyberfrg) bomb their gasoline refinery
[13:04] (cyberfrg) and blockade gas shipments
[13:05] (FreeTrad3) So again its not prejudice which is neccesarily immoral its how we analyze it and what we do with it.
[13:05] (FreeTrad3) Some of us dont analyze it
[13:05] (FreeTrad3) We just see a black man and we know hes bad.
[13:05] (FreeTrad3) I dont think that way but some people do
[13:05] (astrodog) cyber: I mean the more specific reaction, of how the British should change how they're operating.
[13:05] (FreeTrad3) Or it can be reversed, black people can think the same thing about white people.
[13:05] (truthman) dont blacks make up most of hte prison population ?
[13:05] (FreeTrad3) thats irrational
[13:06] (astrodog) FT: I met... quite possibly the most racist person I've ever met the other day.
[13:06] (astrodog) And he was flamingly gay. Really odd combination.
[13:06] (FreeTrad3) they are not correcting their prejudice and in some cases are not even cognizant of thier discrimination which is unjustified..
[13:06] (FreeTrad3) Thats usually when it crosses the threshold to bigotry
[13:06] (cyberfrg) what about a person with valid topics and concerns backed up with emperical evidence
[13:06] (FreeTrad3) Bigotry is the ugliest side of discriminatrion and prejudice.
[13:07] (FreeTrad3) Its when reason is not tempering it.
[13:07] (FreeTrad3) when we let it go and we enocourage it and even feed off it.
[13:07] (astrodog) cyber: There really isn't good emperical evidence on this kind of thing... most of it turns out to be invalidate later...
[13:07] (z00p) emperical evidence means nothing in today's world, please believe whatever makes them feel better about their situation
[13:07] (astrodog) (Look at measure of brainpan capacity in blacks, in the late 1800s)
[13:07] (cyberfrg) sure
[13:08] (FreeTrad3) Look, I am the first who will say as a fact statistically in the USA that blacks commit far more murders than whites per capita..
[13:08] (FreeTrad3) I dont consider that bigoted.
[13:08] (FreeTrad3) thats a factual crime statistic virtually noone would deny
[13:08] (FreeTrad3) some might be offended if you bring it up
[13:08] (truthman) but if you know that fact, then how can you not be prejudiced?
[13:08] (z00p) there are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies and statistics
[13:08] (FreeTrad3) but there are contexts where it is appropriate to bring it up
[13:08] (astrodog) z00p: Are 33% of lies statistics?
[13:08] (cyberfrg) poverty, welfare use, drug use, child abuse
[13:08] (astrodog) ;)
[13:08] (FreeTrad3) for one thing it tells us something is wrong in some black communities and maybe they need something they arent getting.
[13:08] (FreeTrad3) Like fathers mainly.
[13:09] (z00p) just because there are 3 kinds, doesn't mean they're in equal amounts
[13:09] (FreeTrad3) There is no better correlation between crime and evil than the lack of a good father in the home.
[13:09] (FreeTrad3) or a father figure..
[13:09] (truthman) i think they are self-loathing.. that's probably the reason they run out on their families
[13:09] (FreeTrad3) One of the best ways to help kids who dont have a much of a future is to mentor them young
[13:09] (td) Why is Bush just now honoring the Tuskeegee airmen?
[13:09] (FreeTrad3) Poverty has very little to do with crime..
[13:09] (FreeTrad3) Crimninality is more of a cause of poverty than a result of it.
[13:09] (z00p) black people just have a tendency to get 'krunk'
[13:09] (cyberfrg) lol
[13:09] (z00p) look at any predominantly black country
[13:10] (FreeTrad3) td, How do you know he is just now ?
[13:10] (FreeTrad3) They have been honored many times.
[13:10] (observer) td, better late than never ?
[13:10] (FreeTrad3) Maybe hes just doing it again ?
[13:10] (FreeTrad3) NO wait
[13:10] (FreeTrad3) stop
[13:10] (FreeTrad3) They have been honored many times
[13:10] (td) Yes they have
[13:10] (FreeTrad3) is the problem there is a magic number which is neccesary ?
[13:10] (td) and they deserve it
[13:10] (truthman) what white aircrew is he honoring?
[13:10] (cyberfrg) truthman: none, that woudl be racist
[13:10] (td) No I'm just wondering about the timing
[13:11] (FreeTrad3) Sure they deserve it but why must Bush honor them specifically
[13:11] (FreeTrad3) literally 1000s of groups and individuals are worthy of honoring
[13:11] (observer) he honors all our soldiers, doesn
[13:11] (observer) doesn't mean he has to have a ceremony for each one
[13:11] (FreeTrad3) maybe even 100s of 1000s which you clearly couldnt do if it was a full time job
[13:11] (truthman) blacks are worshipped in the usa... but the blacks still dont like themselves for some reason
[13:11] (td) could there be some sort of political motivation
[13:11] (FreeTrad3) andf the presidency clearly has to pick and choose based on other considerations.
[13:11] (z00p) it was pretty shiesty how hillary and clinton butted into obama's black pride march and speech
[13:11] (cyberfrg) td: when would have been a good time?
[13:12] (z00p) er, hillary and bill
[13:12] (td) here is from today
[13:12] (FreeTrad3) TD, Bush has a long reputation which was very good with minorities..
[13:12] (td) "Even the Nazis asked why African American men would fight for a country that treated them so unfairly," President Bush told the group of legendary black aviators, who received a Congressional Gold Medal — the most prestigious Congress has to offer.
[13:12] (td) Congressional Gold medals should be given to all WW2 heroes
[13:12] (FreeTrad3) Something happened when he became president despite his huge team of educated and intelligent minorities and whites in his cabinet, he got labeled by some as a racist.
[13:12] (FreeTrad3) which is absurd.
[13:12] (truthman) treated them unfairly? it let them fly in the war
[13:12] (FreeTrad3) He had the reputation as one of the best governors in the country when it came to race issues
[13:13] (TheTailor) td, well in WWII hero's meant someone that did more than just joining the service.
[13:13] (Harsen) WTF
[13:13] (FreeTrad3) I Believe bush is an example himself perhaps who should be honored for his respect and his willingness to give minorities opportunity and respect.
[13:13] (z00p) it's amazing what people will do for a paycheck
[13:13] (z00p) regardless of whether the country is treating them right
[13:13] (astrodog) Since pretty much everyone got drafted... joining wasn't exactly a voluntary action.
[13:13] (Harsen) Pelosi is aparently blocking a resolution of America pledging its support to Great Britain over the Iran hostage crisis!!
[13:13] (Harsen) Pelosi is aparently blocking a resolution of America pledging its support to Great Britain over the Iran hostage crisis!!
[13:14] (TheTailor) z00p, maybe they did it out of conviction.
[13:14] (astrodog) Hars: That's... unlikely.
[13:14] (z00p) also possible
[13:14] (FreeTrad3) A lot of times people use politics to try to harm others.
[13:14] (astrodog) Hars: I'd dig into a bit more.
[13:14] (Harsen) its aparently "just breaking" so i'll wait and see
[13:14] (astrodog) Pfft.
[13:14] (FreeTrad3) Bush didnt go to the first few NAACP invitations.
[13:14] (FreeTrad3) And you know why ?
[13:14] (astrodog) Drudge is a shit.
[13:14] (astrodog) :P
[13:14] (TheTailor) Harsen, that can't shock you.
[13:14] (td) What good would come of such a resolution anyways
[13:14] (FreeTrad3) They insulted him very directly and in the worst kind of way while under the leadership of a major black democratic hack
[13:14] (FreeTrad3) WHat was his name ?
[13:14] (FreeTrad3) He sgone now
[13:15] (Harsen) astrodog, eh I didn't hear it on drudge
[13:15] (TheTailor) td, right, just like the other resolution, but they did that too.
[13:15] (FreeTrad3) and went to the last NAACP speech
[13:15] (FreeTrad3) and he was recieved well.
[13:15] (z00p) the racism issue is so old and tired
[13:15] (td) America by default pledged their support to GB
[13:15] (td) they dont need a resolution
[13:15] (astrodog) Hars: That's a pretty unlikely story. Either there's something else in the resolution... or its bullshit.
[13:15] (FreeTrad3) But playing racial politics is disgraceful.
[13:15] (td) its just a political stunt
[13:15] (TheTailor) Not by default, by treaty.
[13:15] (Harsen) Fred Thompson 08
[13:15] (z00p) bush is acting like a cornered and wounded animal right now
[13:15] (truthman) GB has killed more americans in history than iran
[13:15] (astrodog) Herz: Pelosi is many things. She's a decent politician, and knows that'd play poorly.
[13:15] (TheTailor) z00p, how?
[13:15] (z00p) he has vowed to veto that bill that just passed the senate to cut funding in iraq
[13:16] (z00p) and some of the statements he is making publicly are pretty aggressive
[13:16] (FreeTrad3) Oh yes most definately..
[13:16] (TheTailor) z00p, everyone knew that, and it's not over funding, it's over the congress running the war.
[13:16] (z00p) GB is the worst leadership problem this country has ever had
[13:16] (cyberfrg) blah blah blah
[13:16] (TheTailor) z00p, naa, that was Carter
[13:16] (z00p) i think it's over funding as well
[13:16] (FreeTrad3) Maybe they will put a rider on the bill saying and we hereby apologize nationally for slavery so that if bush vetos it they can say he refused a national apologgy
[13:16] (cyberfrg) here we go again
[13:16] (FreeTrad3) Thats politics and its dirty politics
[13:16] (astrodog) FT: HEH.
[13:16] (astrodog) That'd be pretty clever. :P
[13:17] (FreeTrad3) and its the way it works sometimes inDC
[13:17] (FreeTrad3) and I know republicans engage in it too
[13:17] (z00p) the president demanding a replenishment of war funding with no strings and Speaker Nancy Pelosi counseling him to "calm down with the threats."
[13:17] (FreeTrad3) Yah what threats?
[13:17] (FreeTrad3) Bush made no threats
[13:17] (cyberfrg) lol
[13:17] (cyberfrg) saying he'll veto isn't a threat
[13:17] (z00p) nah just threats to exercise his executive power
[13:17] (FreeTrad3) why doesnt she calm down with the threats.
[13:17] (z00p) that's all
[13:17] (TheTailor) FT, see your messages.
[13:17] (FreeTrad3) SHe has threatened people who didnt sign it with punishments
[13:18] (FreeTrad3) she has rewarded people who would sign it with huge pork spending for their districs
[13:18] (z00p) The House approved a more sweeping measure last week, including a mandatory withdrawal deadline for most combat troops of Sept. 1, 2008.
[13:18] (FreeTrad3) its shameful and then she says bush is the one.
[13:18] (FreeTrad3) Bush is asking for one thing 0nly,Money to support the troops;
[13:18] (FreeTrad3) period
[13:18] (z00p) of course
[13:18] (FreeTrad3) he wants nothing else attacked to it
[13:18] (TheTailor) Is the timeline in this current funding bill?
[13:18] (FreeTrad3) other things can be voted oin seperately
[13:18] (TheTailor) FT, see your messages.
[13:18] (z00p) yea it's attached to it i think
[13:18] (truthman) i would be happy if they just took the troops out and moved them to iran.. 1 war at a time is ok with me
[13:19] (truthman) make everyone happy
[13:19] (z00p) iran is weak... i've seen videos of how they cry, kiss and hug before battle and then go off to be 'martyred'
[13:19] (z00p) they love becoming martyrs... we tend to lean toward self preservation
[13:20] (FreeTrad3) Well most of them dont. and dont volunteer, the more fanatical do.
[13:20] (truthman) we could take over iran and they probably would'nt even do suicide bombings
[13:21] (z00p) it's also pretty niave to think that a country couldn't obtain a nuclear weapon if they wanted one... but it's a good ploy to take them out of the picture
[13:21] (z00p) to attack due to the development of their nuclear infrastructure
[13:21] (Aufk|aren) 25 years ago today, the Argentineans were just preparing to invade the Falkland Islands, having already captured South Georgia. I think the exact date of the invasion was 2 April.
[13:21] (truthman) pre-emptive war is now the norm
[13:22] (Furyous) just wait for Iran to announce they have nuclear capabilities, and see what Israel has to say about it :)
[13:22] (z00p) israel needs to start handling some of their own business
[13:22] (FreeTrad3) I think Israel has come to a new realization.
[13:22] (FreeTrad3) frankly
[13:22] (DrunkOnNO) Bush is the best thing that has happened to America since sliced bread.
[13:22] (z00p) haha
[13:22] (FreeTrad3) I think they now understand they are not neccesarily undefeatable.
[13:22] (CryHavoc) Auf...hehe
[13:22] (truthman) they do handle their own business.. by controlling us and making us do it for them
[13:22] (CryHavoc) and 24 years and 9 months ago...the UK kicked their ass
[13:22] (FreeTrad3) I think they are much more cautious and much more serious about their enemies and their enemies capabilities
[13:22] (FreeTrad3) As they ought to be.
[13:23] (z00p) i find it interesting how there are still so many bush supporters
[13:23] (FreeTrad3) We were that way prior to vietnam
[13:23] (z00p) truthman: exactly
[13:23] (CryHavoc) The UK can deal with Iran.....
[13:23] (z00p) we're their mercs
[13:23] (FreeTrad3) in school we would brag, AMerica has never been beaten in a war.
[13:23] (TheTailor) Why is that interesting? He was re-elected.
[13:23] (Aufk|aren) Cry: You have some funny maths going on there mate. There are 11 months in a year. ;)
[13:23] (CryHavoc) they do not need our help
[13:23] (FreeTrad3) Then came vietnam.
[13:23] (Aufk|aren) Cry: er, 12.
[13:23] (truthman) yeah and why would they want to change that
[13:23] (Aufk|aren) Cry: Which would make it 24 years and 11 months.
[13:23] (z00p) re-elected due to successful fearmongering tactics
[13:23] (CryHavoc) Iyou said...25 years ago today...Argentina prepared to invade...
[13:24] (Aufk|aren) Right.
[13:24] (FreeTrad3) I support Bush hugely
[13:24] (TheTailor) re-elected due to people wanting Bush over the other idiot, whoever he was.
[13:24] (FreeTrad3) And it had nothing to do with fear mongering
[13:24] (Aufk|aren) Oh, you're going from the end of the battle. :D
[13:24] (Aufk|aren) Never mind.
[13:24] (FreeTrad3) I have no fear.
[13:24] (z00p) plus, sometimes it's best to let an idiot finish what he started, rather than try to figure out what the idiot was thinking to finish it yourself
[13:24] (CryHavoc) I said approk 3 months later.. (24 Years and Ninfe months ago (sic) they kicked some Argie
[13:24] (FreeTrad3) I believe Bush is doing a very positive thing.
[13:24] (CryHavoc) :)
[13:24] (TheTailor) "the idiot" huh
[13:24] (FreeTrad3) Proactively doing things which can prevent future wars.
[13:24] (z00p) well you're entitled to your beliefs
[13:24] (truthman) i don't believe anything any politician says.. you can only see their acts and judge them on that
[13:24] (FreeTrad3) and future terrorist attacks.
[13:24] (z00p) you probably have family who are serving in iraq
[13:25] (TheTailor) z00p, Buah is YOUR president.
[13:25] (Aufk|aren) I wonder if there's anything to be learned from the Falklands for today's crisis.
[13:25] (TheTailor) err, Bush
[13:25] (FreeTrad3) I see Bainer and Bush and that crowd of republicans as the only ones with their eyes open (Along with joe lieberman)
[13:25] (z00p) right, if you aren't completely outraged at the actions of the Bush administration, you're probably just not paying attention
[13:25] (z00p) either that, or you're clinging to certain beliefs for your own personal reasons
[13:25] (FreeTrad3) The rest are ostriches who are afraid and so they thing a good defense is burying their head in the sand.
[13:26] (FreeTrad3) Disengagement
[13:26] (TheTailor) z00p, or, you have the ability to think and reason.
[13:26] (FreeTrad3) which would be crazy
[13:26] (truthman) the clinton administration disgusted me by how politicized it was... the admin is even worse
[13:26] (z00p) or lack thereof
[13:26] (TheTailor) z00p, well that would describe the left.
[13:26] (FreeTrad3) No I actually am very well educated in politcs, war and the middle east and current events. thats all. I understand what works and doesnt work in international diplomacy if we walk from Iran we look weak, we invite attack.
[13:26] (z00p) of course
[13:27] (FreeTrad3) sorry to brag if it appears that way but if its true so be it.
[13:27] (z00p) political pigeon holes are very popular
[13:27] (FreeTrad3) IO am not here to make friends
[13:27] (TheTailor) Whatever they are.
[13:27] (truthman) walk away from iran? what have they done to us?
[13:27] (FreeTrad3) Wait not just Iran
[13:27] (FreeTrad3) But I mean Iraq
[13:27] (Harsen) FT doesn't want to be my friend :(
[13:27] (FreeTrad3) But you can add Iran
[13:27] (z00p) freetrade: i agree with you on that, but this is the best example of a cash-and-carry government we've ever had
[13:28] (FreeTrad3) Harsen of course I want to be your friend.
[13:28] (Aufk|aren) Maybe we have something to learn from the Don Pacifico Incident as well.
[13:28] (TheTailor) Harsen, well he's married
[13:28] (Harsen) FT, you said you weren't here to make friends hehe
[13:28] (FreeTrad3) But if my opinion so insults a person that he wont be my friend I wont change my opinion
[13:28] (FreeTrad3) Thats my only point ;)
[13:28] (Harsen) TheTailor, but you aren't sweetmonkey.
[13:28] (FreeTrad3) I actually like you a lot.
[13:28] (TheTailor) Back you
[13:28] (FreeTrad3) I(* even like a lot of people who disagree with me
[13:28] (Harsen) This fuckin guy stood me up
[13:28] (FreeTrad3) Its basically about respect.
[13:28] (FreeTrad3) yuou respect me I will respectyou
[13:28] (Harsen) i was supposed to meet him at 230 and have waited til 320
[13:29] (FreeTrad3) But if you state something on channel I disagree with I will say so.
[13:29] (truthman) harsen: you should only wait about 15 minutes ever for anyone
[13:29] (Harsen) eh i've been chilling listening to hannity
[13:29] (FreeTrad3) OPh shit that reminds me I have an appointment today.
[13:29] (Harsen) me and MC Rove
[13:29] (truthman) but if you wait you look weak
[13:29] (FreeTrad3) Now now though
[13:31] (FreeTrad3) Not now though I meant ;)
[13:33] (truthman) damn its 81 degrees in here
[13:33] (FreeTrad3) Our economy has grown and our deficit is shrinking, sure its not a perfect government but these are also very unusual times, you have a president who was attacked on 911 in the bigggest foreign attack on US soil in history deaths in a single day and you had the worst storm in US history.
[13:33] (FreeTrad3) You have assymetrical warfare arguably the hardest type to fight.
[13:33] (FreeTrad3) I dont even know if its arguable
[13:34] (FreeTrad3) and there is a chain of events from all this which has changed everyone in america some for the better some for the worse.
[13:34] (tnzr) its divided us, thats for sure
[13:34] (z00p) yea because arabs with boxcutters were responsible... even if that's true... we attacked iraq?
[13:34] (tnzr) makes me mad how gloomy the administration is though
[13:34] (tnzr) they see this future of permanent warfare so they take actions that contribute to that future, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy
[13:34] (FreeTrad3) Some have just become more xenophobic and fearful of others, some have been reasonable and cautious and introspective before rushing to judgement.
[13:35] (z00p) i think some day when the lies of this administration are revealed, it will be mind blowing for the entire world
[13:35] (TheTailor) z00p, well we didn't have to, but you know, Saddam wouldn't move out, so...
[13:35] (tnzr) z00p: dont count on them ever being revealed. the structure of government is changing
[13:35] (tnzr) and once those changes are made, they are probably very hard if not possible to undo
[13:35] (tnzr) impossible*
[13:35] (z00p) yea Saddamn was asking for it
[13:35] (TheTailor) z00p, that's not going to happen.
[13:36] (FreeTrad3) Administration is said to be optimistic, the only gloomyness is over 6 years of attacks on him and his administration and threats by coingress for domestic political reasons to withdraw or play games with the money which should go to the troops
[13:36] (tnzr) that saddam shit was just rhetoric to get us into the middle east.
[13:36] * tnzr my .02
[13:36] (z00p) obviously
[13:36] (FreeTrad3) Bush was not attacked in 2004 after the war began
[13:36] (z00p) you have to think just how far certain elements of this administration would be willing to go to GET into the middle east
[13:36] (FreeTrad3) he was attacked before he got into office and its been unrelenting ever since.
[13:36] (tnzr) FreeTrad3: i disagree.. cheney repeatedly says things like "we will be fighting in a war somewhere for the rest of our lives"
[13:36] (z00p) when these guys were in college, many of them were considered crazies by their associates and acquaintances
[13:36] (tnzr) to me, thats a pretty damn grim outlook
[13:37] (TheTailor) z00p, what does that mean?
[13:37] (z00p) now they're writing foreign policy?
[13:37] (TheTailor) z00p, what guys?
[13:37] (truthman) scotter is a dual citizen isn't he?
[13:37] (z00p) well feith and wolfowitz are two good examples
[13:37] (tnzr) isn't it common knowledge that bush wanted iraq before 9/11 ever even happened?
[13:37] (FreeTrad3) Ive never seen such an unfair attack on the presidency in my lifetime and with so much venom and hatred except for the very brief period immediately after 911 when his polls shot up to the highest of any president recorded in history
[13:37] (FreeTrad3) But the bush bashers couldnt stay away long.
[13:37] (tnzr) FreeTrad3: those were emotional poll results
[13:37] (TheTailor) z00p, were you in school with them? Who called them "crazies"?
[13:38] (tnzr) FreeTrad3: the attack unified our country, thats for sure.. but I think Bush did a piss-poor job of preserving that unity
[13:38] (FreeTrad3) Who was it, that bith on the view... Rosy Odonnel who said Bush was like a father to her during the crisis right after 911 a CALMING FIGURE..
[13:38] (z00p) taking a shot at the credibility of that information is easy to do
[13:38] (z00p) but it's true
[13:38] (TheTailor) z00p, you just made that up, right?
[13:38] (tnzr) I think the main reason was iraq.. that divided everyone because people simply knew it was bogus
[13:38] (truthman) i think you know he was in fact NOT in school with them
[13:38] (z00p) TheTailor: they're known extremists
[13:38] (FreeTrad3) NOW she is back to bashing him daily and with vile insults.
[13:38] (TheTailor) z00p, by whom?
[13:38] (tnzr) FreeTrad3: the best way to silence that foul beast is just to ignore her. :)
[13:39] (FreeTrad3) Known extremists means nothing..
[13:39] (TheTailor) z00p, you don't have any credibility, you made that up about them being "crazies".
[13:39] (tnzr) FreeTrad3: too bad the multitudes of obese stay-at-home'ers love her.. and vote
[13:39] (FreeTrad3) Known extremists with regard to being friendly ?
[13:39] (ivy^) I don't think anyone is swayed by Rosie, if that's any consolation, ft
[13:39] (FreeTrad3) Extremely friendly ?
[13:39] (FreeTrad3) Whart ?
[13:39] (ivy^) everyone I talk to dislikes her
[13:39] (FreeTrad3) ivy, Not many
[13:39] (z00p) whatever they used to write articles about how the american people wouldn't get behind another invasion without another 'pearl harbor' type event
[13:39] (FreeTrad3) I admit that is definately true.. But a minority are..
[13:40] (FreeTrad3) Z00p, SO bush demolished the wtc ?
[13:40] (ivy^) she seems on a collision course with destiny :)
[13:40] (z00p) there's a big picture here and it's very tough to actually see
[13:40] (FreeTrad3) Rght ?
[13:40] (TheTailor) z00p, 9-11 was another Pearl harbor type event.
[13:40] (z00p) no that's retarded
[13:40] (tnzr) it even says that in the PNAC
[13:40] (tnzr) about another "pearl harbor type event"
[13:40] (truthman) lots of people think pearl harbor was "allowed" to happen as well
[13:40] (FreeTrad3) Ivy I was just shocked to here her say and I heard her with my own ears say Bush was like a father to me, I was so scared and he helped get me through it..
[13:40] (tnzr) yep
[13:40] (FreeTrad3) That was a shocker
[13:40] (tnzr) the sad part is that we will never know
[13:40] (FreeTrad3) much more shocking than anything negative she ever said about him
[13:40] (ivy^) a human moment, ft :)
[13:40] (FreeTrad3) heh
[13:41] (z00p) The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists. J. Edgar Hoover
[13:41] (FreeTrad3) haha
[13:41] (FreeTrad3) Is it tough ?
[13:41] (FreeTrad3) What is tough ?
[13:41] (TheTailor) z00p, huh?
[13:41] (FreeTrad3) Your acting like Bush engineered the wtc event
[13:41] (FreeTrad3) and war
[13:41] (z00p) no not bush personally
[13:41] (tnzr) FreeTrad3: its happened before
[13:41] (tnzr) :)
[13:41] * tnzr just sayin'
[13:41] (z00p) but there's no doubt that many people knew it was coming
[13:41] (TheTailor) The great right wing conspiracy did!
[13:41] (truthman) much like zoop wasn't in school with them) so how do you really know
[13:42] (TheTailor) z00p, really? Who knew it was coming?
[13:42] (FreeTrad3) I remember a guy coming in with the idea of an old fashioned conservative mixed with new republcianism,. Very liberal economic policy (International definition) and a very conservative enagement policy with the world.
[13:42] (FreeTrad3) Bush came in hoping to avoid any conflict with the outside world, with a view of turning inwad.
[13:42] (z00p) well lets see we've got Larry Silverstein taking out a 7 billion dollar insurance policy against terrorism on the complex weeks before it happened
[13:42] (z00p) and we've got a spike in put options on airline stock the day before
[13:42] (FreeTrad3) 911 turned him outward
[13:42] (z00p) that's good enough for me
[13:42] (FreeTrad3) he had no choice.
[13:42] (tnzr) re: McNamara, Israel and the U.S.S. Liberty during the 6-day war
[13:43] (TheTailor) z00p, have any showing of that?
[13:43] (FreeTrad3) Z00p such conspiracy theories come out after every war, or crisis
[13:43] (z00p) there's also a fema report that says bldg 7 collapsed from debris, and a video of Silverstein admitting to demolishing it
[13:43] (z00p) all of this information is very easy to find
[13:43] (FreeTrad3) Thats because people make money every time there is a major move in the market up or down
[13:43] (TheTailor) z00p, there must be a copy of a 7 billion dollar policy you read, right? Lets see it.
[13:43] (tnzr) z00p: dont forget about the audio of him saying "so we pulled it" about WTC 7!
[13:43] (FreeTrad3) Someone benefits hugely
[13:43] (tnzr) z00p: yes, that
[13:43] (z00p) TheTailor do you just not follow events or waht?
[13:43] (z00p) there must be 28502052 articles about that
[13:43] (FreeTrad3) IM sad and not sad to say I profited in the stock market from 911
[13:44] (TheTailor) z00p, do you have a showing of that made up story or don't you?
[13:44] (FreeTrad3) I didnt hope for 911 it occurred
[13:44] (tnzr) http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/04/29/attacks.insurance/index.html
[13:44] (z00p) the 7 billion dollar policy and the court proceedings that followed
[13:44] (FreeTrad3) It seems still your implying Bush had something to do with it
[13:44] (z00p) where he tried to get paid out and only made off with like 3 billion
[13:44] (tnzr) he even wanted both planes to be considered seperate incidents
[13:44] (tnzr) thats fucking sick
[13:44] (FreeTrad3) how else would his friends, Im assuming they are friends in your view profit if he didnt
[13:44] (TheTailor) z00p, oh court, then you really must have a copy of the policy.
[13:44] (tnzr) Silverstein contended that the two jetliners crashing into the twin towers about 15 minutes apart should be considered two separate events, which would allow him to collect the maximum from the insurers for each tower, as much as $7 billion.
[13:44] (truthman) hetailor: he just gave you a link to cnn
[13:44] (TheTailor) z00p, lets see it, got a URL?
[13:44] (FreeTrad3) Oh this was an insurer..
[13:45] (tnzr) TT: http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/04/29/attacks.insurance/index.html
[13:45] (FreeTrad3) Well anyone what does that have to do with ANYTHING ?
[13:45] (FreeTrad3) A guys building gets hit which he didnt solely own btw
[13:45] (TheTailor) truthman, why no, he didn't, I was talking to z00p, pay attention.
[13:45] (truthman) since he provided the evidence you required, do you now agree with his point?
[13:45] (FreeTrad3) the NY Port authority owned part of the wtc
[13:45] (z00p) there are 50 million URLs are you just lazy?
[13:45] (FreeTrad3) I guess Rudy was in on the conspiracy
[13:45] (FreeTrad3) to make NY money
[13:45] (tnzr) google for silverstein 9/11 insurance
[13:46] (FreeTrad3) there are 50 million urls full of bullshit
[13:46] (tnzr) that seems to spit out a shedload of results
[13:46] (FreeTrad3) ifn ot more
[13:46] (truthman) z00p: no he just probably learned this confrontation tactics in debate classes
[13:46] (FreeTrad3) A url doesnt mean shit
[13:46] (TheTailor) The insurance company writing any policy would have to sell it wouldn't they? Or are they in on the conpiracy?
[13:46] (tnzr) FreeTrad3: its a start
[13:46] (FreeTrad3) What means something is the reality or non reality of the subject along with the information the analsysis etc.
[13:46] (TheTailor) How much does it cost to replace the WTC?
[13:47] (TheTailor) 7 billion?
[13:47] (FreeTrad3) Wait not going to a url makes one lazy and using a debate tactic ?
[13:47] (truthman) kindof like how bolton tells john stewart he doesn't know lincoln history very well.. and he usually doesn't get called so he wins the argument
[13:47] (FreeTrad3) Going to URLs can also throw people off.
[13:47] (FreeTrad3) I rarely ask anyone to go to a url almost never
[13:47] (tnzr) john bolton is a nut
[13:47] (z00p) the funny thing was, taking out an insurance policy on those towers is just bad business
[13:47] (z00p) unless you know something
[13:47] (FreeTrad3) I may paste information from a url I trust and then paste the source..
[13:47] (FreeTrad3) But I dont give referrals.
[13:47] (truthman) its just a tactic.. and not honest debate
[13:48] (z00p) if you read page 5 of the official FEMA report from the FEMA website, which outlines the collapses, it says WTC 7 collapsed from fires due to debris
[13:48] (FreeTrad3) A capable debator often doesnt need to.
[13:48] (TheTailor) z00p, why would it be bad business?
[13:48] (Aufk|aren) z00p: Despite the fact it was an obvious target and had even been attacked by the same group once before (93 bombing)?
[13:48] (Aufk|aren) z00p: Sounds like exactly the sort of place you would want insurance for.
[13:48] (TheTailor) z00p, insurance is standard in doing business.
[13:48] (FreeTrad3) That doesnt make it a debate technique it may simply mean hes already more knowlegable and he doesnt need your url.
[13:48] (FreeTrad3) It was attacked i believe in 1993..
[13:48] (FreeTrad3) They tried to get it from the basement first.
[13:48] (FreeTrad3) Bad strategy
[13:49] (tnzr) i dont buy the fire as a reason for collapse, either
[13:49] (z00p) then... a video is readily available of Larry Silverstein, in a PBS documntary ADMITTING to demolishing the building
[13:49] (tnzr) for any of the buildings
[13:49] (truthman) why didnt they buy the insurance then...?
[13:49] (FreeTrad3) much better to use gas full airplanes about 10 floors or so from the top
[13:49] (FreeTrad3) ifyou want to bring it down
[13:49] (TheTailor) truthman, seems they did.
[13:49] (tnzr) z00p: later he tried to say he meant 'pull it' as in "get the firefighters out of there"
[13:49] (tnzr) makes no sense
[13:50] (Aufk|aren) z00p Silverstein didn't mean "destroy the building," he meant withdraw the firefighters and crews in there trying to save it.
[13:50] (FreeTrad3) tnzr, Well I happen to be among my many other hats quite knowlegable about contstruction
[13:50] (truthman) i read that they had wanted to unload the properties before the attack...
[13:50] (FreeTrad3) having erected steel building.
[13:50] (Aufk|aren) z00p: It specifically follows on from when he said that they had already had a terrible loss of life.
[13:50] (TheTailor) After a three-month trial, jurors decided Thursday that the attacks should be considered a single event for nine insurance companies, which together are responsible for at least $1 billion in coverage.
[13:50] (TheTailor) 1 billion, not 7.
[13:50] (TheTailor) It doesn't say when the policy was bought.
[13:50] (FreeTrad3) Building were we cut beams to size with a cutting torch of fire in a minute
[13:50] (tnzr) FreeTrad3: and what is your verdict? Fire melted the frames and brought the building(s) down?
[13:51] (TheTailor) z00p, what made you think it was bought just before the attack?
[13:51] (FreeTrad3) It didnt melt them it structurally weakened them..
[13:51] (tnzr) but why didn that happen historically in all the other steel-framed buildings that burned much longer?
[13:52] (FreeTrad3) The dead load and live load on the building the force which is constant along with other forces (Wind and any others) eventually it snapped and it cascaded to the bottom As I would expext abuilding to do.
[13:52] (z00p) there are people working together on this
[13:52] (z00p) do you know how much the insurance on those buildings WAS?
[13:52] (z00p) obviously not because you didn't even know there was insurance
[13:52] (z00p) terrorism insurance on the WTC? waht's the likelihood of that happening?
[13:52] (z00p) is it that high?
[13:52] (z00p) except steel melts at a temperature higher than what jet fuel burns at
[13:52] (z00p) and there wasn't any thermite lying around in the building as a standard
[13:52] (z00p) Aufk|aren that's horse shit, everyone knows that 'pull it' means demolish it
[13:52] (z00p) 7 billion dollar policy, around 1 billion payout
[13:52] (z00p) i thought it was little higher
[13:52] (z00p) but the policy was 7 bil
[13:52] (z00p) he didn't get paid out on the whole thing
[13:52] (z00p) because it was
[13:52] (z00p) do some research and get back to me before you argue
[13:52] (z00p) buildings far less technologically advanced ahve burned for longer with more damage and never collapsed
[13:52] (z00p) no structural engineers thought it would collapse when the planes hit
[13:52] (z00p) there's a professor at MIT that did a presentation on this...
[13:52] (FreeTrad3) Oh and btw if you ever watched a controlled demolition
[13:52] (Aufk|aren) whoa
[13:52] (FreeTrad3) how on there no flooding
[13:52] (tnzr) z00p 2 lag
[13:52] (FreeTrad3) Oh and btw if you ever watched a controlled demolition
[13:52] (Aufk|aren) z00p: No, not "everyone knows" that pull it means demolish it.
[13:52] (Aufk|aren) z00p: Silverstein himself said what he meant by it.
[13:52] (FreeTrad3) They first floor usually comes down first and it then the 2nd then the 3rd etc..
[13:52] (z00p) of course he said that
[13:52] (FreeTrad3) This was the opposite the collapse started at the top as you would expect
[13:52] (z00p) you think he's going to admit to that? 'pull it' means demolish it
[13:53] (Aufk|aren) z00p: Yes, he said that because that's what he meant.
[13:53] (Aufk|aren) z00p: Then why did he say it in the first place?
[13:53] (TheTailor) z00p, opps! you are wrong.
[13:53] (z00p) slip
[13:53] (TheTailor) After leasing the complex, Silverstein negotiated with 24 insurance companies for a maximum coverage of $3.55 billion per catastrophic occurrence. However, the agreements had not been finalized before 9/11.
[13:53] (Aufk|aren) z00p: Conspiracy theories are moronic.
[13:53] (Aufk|aren) z00p: YOU are moronic.
[13:53] (z00p) he said it not me
[13:53] (TheTailor) the agreements had not been finalized before 9/11.
[13:53] (FreeTrad3) and then came crashing down as each floord weight dead load and the velocity of it dropping (live load) combined to force the whole building to pancake.
[13:53] (Aufk|aren) z00p: He said "pull it," and by "pull it" he meant withdraw the firefighters.
[13:53] (truthman) he obviously got tired of waiting
[13:53] (tnzr) Aufk|aren: I dont get that
[13:53] (z00p) 'pull it' means withdraw firefighters?
[13:53] (Aufk|aren) z00p: He didn't say "we should demolish it."
[13:53] (Aufk|aren) z00p: Yes.
[13:53] (z00p) whatever you wanna think
[13:54] (tnzr) what does that have to do with firefighters
[13:54] (Aufk|aren) z00p: That's what he meant.
[13:54] (tnzr) why would they pull firefighters out of hte place anyway
[13:54] (Aufk|aren) Let the man take responsibility for his own words.
[13:54] (Lupine) z00P: Um, Alex Jones is one of the central figures in 9/11. His uncle designed the strange floor-to-wall connections, which bore 100% of the weight. The blueprints of those mysteriously disappeared 1 month before 9/11.
[13:54] (DrunkOnNO) riiight
[13:54] (Lupine) Alex Jones was born into this.
[13:54] (tnzr) Lupine: no shit??
[13:54] (truthman) george bush shot the buildings with cruise missiles with micro nukes.. the planes were holographic
[13:54] (z00p) alex jones is crazy as a loon
[13:54] (FreeTrad3) Oh I am getting tired, took my daughter to school very early today..
[13:54] (tnzr) hey now I like alex jones :)
[13:54] (Lupine) tnzr: yep.
[13:54] (FreeTrad3) last day of school for a week Ithink
[13:54] (tnzr) hes crazy but he has some good points
[13:54] (Aufk|aren) Why would you believe this nonsense? There's absolutely stacks of evidence that it was Al-Qaeda, and that the plot happened just how the mainstream narrative has it. Yet you'll reject all that on the basis of quibbling over the word 'pull'?
[13:54] (tnzr) sometimes, kind of. :)
[13:54] (Aufk|aren) It's retarded.
[13:54] (Lupine) tnzr: that is the key to how the towers fell.
[13:55] (z00p) i wouldn't believe it unless he had taken out that insurance policy
[13:55] (FreeTrad3) truthman hahahahahaha
[13:55] (Aufk|aren) Al-Qaeda had already declared its intention to attack, and had attacked the very same building once before. bin Laden claimed responsibility for it.
[13:55] (FreeTrad3) Thats good one of the best yet
[13:55] (TheTailor) z00p, he didn't
[13:55] (Aufk|aren) You'd have to be a complete idiot to believe the 9/11 conspiracy theories.
[13:55] (TheTailor) the agreements had not been finalized before 9/11.
[13:55] * FreeTrad3 changes topic to ' (truthman) george bush shot the buildings with cruise missiles with micro nukes.. the planes were holographic'
[13:55] (TheTailor) And it was for about 3.5 billion
[13:55] (truthman) aufklaren: and yet they claim to have no way to know about this or prevent it
[13:55] (FreeTrad3) hahahahaha
[13:55] (z00p) TheTailor that's retarded
[13:55] (FreeTrad3) holographic
[13:55] (tnzr) im going to hit the gym and head to work
[13:55] (FreeTrad3) I love that part
[13:55] (tnzr) see you guys, hang in there z00p
[13:55] * tnzr afk
[13:55] (z00p) he was only paid out half because they deemed it 1 terror event, not 2
[13:55] (observer) hahah
[13:55] (TheTailor) z00p, that comes from the URL given.
[13:55] (z00p) he tried to get 7 billion
[13:56] * observer scrolls up
[13:56] (TheTailor) No, he didn't
[13:56] (FreeTrad3) hahaha hang in there against a sea of troubles..
[13:56] (tnzr) haha ft, iv ebeen there, I know how it is!!
[13:56] (z00p) TheTailor: you have a mental block of some sort
[13:56] * tnzr afk 4 realz
[13:56] (observer) haha
[13:56] (z00p) it is very well known that he took that insurance policy out
[13:56] (TheTailor) http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/04/29/attacks.insurance/index.html
[13:56] (TheTailor) Ther ya go z00p
[13:57] (z00p) jewish CNN, nice
[13:57] (Lupine) z00p: Alex Jones's family was secretely paid $500million in 1946 by the russian mob. You decide.
[13:57] (Aufk|aren) Jewish CNN?
[13:57] (Aufk|aren) Hahaha.
[13:57] (TheTailor) LOL
[13:57] (Aufk|aren) True colours are now being shown.
[13:57] (z00p) except that URL doesn't exist
[13:57] (Aufk|aren) Anti-semitic lunatic.
[13:57] (LSDWash`) rofl
[13:57] (TheTailor) Yes it does
[13:57] (z00p) haha yea
[13:57] (LSDWash`) Jewish CNN = ROFL
[13:57] (FreeTrad3) And by troubled, End them ? To sleep to die, Perchance to dream, to shed those mortal coils for fear of what lies beyong death knows from whence noone has returned ? Aye there is the rub
[13:57] (z00p) ok there we go i missed the L
[13:57] (Lupine) TheTailor: i think we have found where Bagdad Bob went to
[13:57] (FreeTrad3) Bah.. Bad attempt to memorize shakespeare or go from memory
[13:57] (FreeTrad3) What ?
[13:58] (FreeTrad3) Who called CNN Jewish ?
[13:58] (z00p) Larry Silverstein signed the lease just six weeks before the WTC's twin towers were brought to the ground by terrorists in the September 11, 2001, attacks.
[13:58] (TheTailor) haha, yeah
[13:58] (z00p) that was a joke though really
[13:58] (Lupine) (z00p) jewish CNN, nice
[13:58] (z00p) it's not even jewish as far as i know
[13:58] (FreeTrad3) Oh it was... ?
[13:58] (FreeTrad3) I dont see the humor
[13:58] (TheTailor) z00p, nope.
[13:58] (FreeTrad3) could you enlighten us ?
[13:58] (Aufk|aren) z00p: Don't backtrack now. You said it, you meant it. It was reflex.
[13:58] (truthman) zoop: you are anti-jewish.. the things you say are anti-jew
[13:58] (z00p) who cares is there fear of the 'j' word in here?
[13:58] (TheTailor) Oh signed the lease, yeah
[13:58] (FreeTrad3) Reflex or whatever, what does it mean and why was it mentioned ?
[13:58] (z00p) i haven't said anything anti-jew except that
[13:59] (TheTailor) Not the policies.
[13:59] (z00p) oh is it because silverstein happens to be jewish?
[13:59] (FreeTrad3) Are you anti Jew ?
[13:59] (ivy^) just because a person is antijewish doesn't mean the article isn't correct, of course :)
[13:59] (z00p) i get it
[13:59] (FreeTrad3) That would help explain the conspiracy theories.
[13:59] (z00p) well pay attention to thinks that don't matter if you want
[13:59] (z00p) all of the information is there if you choose to read it
[13:59] (z00p) *things
[13:59] (Aufk|aren) I'm watching a Falklands documentary at the moment (following Carol Thatcher). It's quite amazing. The Argentineans universally believe that the Falklands belongs to them, it doesn't matter what the islanders themselves think, and they'll get them back eventually.
[13:59] (TheTailor) Silverstein, 72, leased the World Trade Center from its owner, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, in July 2001.
[13:59] (FreeTrad3) Your bigotry doesnt matter ?
[13:59] (TheTailor) Imagine that
[13:59] (Aufk|aren) Kirchner said back in 2002 that they were committed to getting them back.
[14:00] (FreeTrad3) I have said I am sick of bigotry whether its anti muslim, Jewish or christian or atheist on this channel.
[14:00] (Aufk|aren) I wonder what he'll say now during the 25th anniversary.
[14:00] (z00p) the fact that you deny there's an insurance policy to begin with, and are now calling me a jew-hater is retarded
[14:00] (Aufk|aren) Heh, some Argentineans right now are saying Margaret Thatcher committed a war crime by sinking the General Belgrano.
[14:00] (FreeTrad3) IM sick of fale claims against religious people based on the actions of a minority
[14:00] (z00p) but whatever makes you feel better
[14:00] (truthman) how come you only capitolize "Jewish"
[14:00] (FreeTrad3) Or based on fantasy
[14:00] (TheTailor) z00p, well lets look at Jewish CNN's article again and see.
[14:00] (z00p) haha
[14:00] (z00p) lighten up
[14:01] (astrodog) Aufk: Got a DivX of the documentary?
[14:01] (z00p) many of their reporters are jewish, big deal
[14:01] (FreeTrad3) I only capitlized Jewish because I am JEwish and christians and muslims we dont capitalize.
[14:01] (TheTailor) After leasing the complex, Silverstein negotiated with 24 insurance companies for a maximum coverage of $3.55 billion per catastrophic occurrence. However, the agreements had not been finalized before 9/11.
[14:01] (Aufk|aren) Heh, some Argentinean woman just told Carol Thatcher to her face that some day God will punish her mother.
[14:01] (Aufk|aren) astrodog: It's only on TV right now.
[14:01] (TheTailor) z00p, get it? Yet?
[14:01] (Aufk|aren) It's called "Mummy's War."
[14:01] (FreeTrad3) *Good lord* thats not true that makes jews sound bad and its not true.
[14:01] (truthman) why don't you capitolize them? you don't think they deserve it?
[14:01] (FreeTrad3) IM a fucking atheist
[14:01] (z00p) TheTailor, that is patently false
[14:01] (Aufk|aren) Carol Thatcher visits the island and sees what they have to say about the whole thing.
[14:02] (Aufk|aren) I had no idea the Argentineans were so vociferous about this.
[14:02] (FreeTrad3) Truthman are you being sarcastic, teasing ? what ?
[14:02] (Aufk|aren) I thought they were more pissed off at their government for the war than with us.
[14:02] (z00p) if they weren't finalized before the event, he wouldn't have been paid a penny
[14:02] (FreeTrad3) I thought you had a funny joke when you came in
[14:02] (TheTailor) z00p, how would you know? And is it false because "Jewish CNN" wrote the article?
[14:02] (z00p) how do you think he got the insurance policy to pay out if it weren't finalized?
[14:02] (truthman) curious
[14:02] (FreeTrad3) dont tell me you meant it ?
[14:02] (z00p) i mean lets have a little common sense here
[14:02] (FreeTrad3) Yeah lets DO
[14:02] (TheTailor) z00p, he got 1 billion from prior insurance.
[14:02] (z00p) riiiight
[14:02] (z00p) apparently you're still failing to read
[14:02] (FreeTrad3) And stop bringing jews (Lower case) catholics christians or Muslims into it
[14:03] (truthman) with a capitol J for you) didn't really care about non-Jews and thought they were fair game for any kind of bad thing
[14:03] (TheTailor) z00p, After a three-month trial, jurors decided Thursday that the attacks should be considered a single event for nine insurance companies, which together are responsible for at least $1 billion in coverage.
[14:03] (z00p) World Trade Center leaseholder Larry Silverstein was dealt a legal setback this week. A Manhattan jury ruled that the largest insurer of the Trade Center complex -- Swiss Re -- was operating under contractual language that limits the amount of Silverstein's insurance coverage to one, not two, payouts.
[14:03] (TheTailor) z00p, read it and weep.
[14:03] (Aufk|aren) The word Jew should be capitalised because it's a noun.
[14:03] (z00p) wow?
[14:03] (truthman) but no Christian?
[14:03] (FreeTrad3) on irc it doesnt matter really
[14:03] (Lupine) Aufk|aren: um... english != german :P
[14:03] (FreeTrad3) you dont have to caps anything
[14:03] (Lupine) Aufk|aren: you mean proper noun
[14:04] (FreeTrad3) And often I wont..
[14:04] (truthman) it matters to you apparently
[14:04] (FreeTrad3) WHat ?
[14:04] (z00p) TheTailor: and you still can't even agree that there was an insurance policy?
[14:04] (FreeTrad3) WHAT ?
[14:04] (z00p) it's amazing you learn anything at all
[14:04] (TheTailor) z00p, read further, I just pasted it for you, but go ahead and read it.
[14:04] (FreeTrad3) This guy isnt a funny guy
[14:04] (FreeTrad3) I misread him
[14:04] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: Yes, a proper noun.
[14:04] * FreeTrad3 changes topic to ' '
[14:04] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: GRAMMAR TIME! *sings*
[14:04] (z00p) how do you become so selective with your processing of information?
[14:04] (TheTailor) z00p, I just told you there was prior insurance, and that new policies weren't finalized.
[14:04] -FreeTrad3:#politics- truthman has been Shitlisted for childishness!
[14:04] (truthman) look i'm not anti-Jew
[14:04] (FreeTrad3) children shall not play here!
[14:04] (FreeTrad3) Get the fuck out and stay out
[14:04] (z00p) TheTailor: he was PAID OUT for 1 terror attack, not 2
[14:04] (z00p) what do you think that means?
[14:05] (TheTailor) z00p, it doesn't matter, you claim that he took out policies totaling 7 billion is false.
[14:05] (FreeTrad3) Zoop, here is the problem you are wasting this channels oxygen with yuour insurance shit
[14:05] (z00p) no it does matter
[14:05] (FreeTrad3) how is insurance relevant to a fucking thing ?
[14:05] (z00p) he tried to get 7 billion
[14:05] (z00p) he didn't
[14:05] * charlie| wonders what Lupine thinks of the Jim Web incident being the gun advocate and all
[14:05] (z00p) now that we're on the same page
[14:05] (FreeTrad3) WHat in any political debate here is insurance relevant to ?
[14:05] (TheTailor) He tried to get about 3.5, and didn't get it.
[14:05] (FreeTrad3) Nothing
[14:05] (FreeTrad3) WHo cares
[14:06] (z00p) it's amazing that it takes you this long to digest 1 small piece of information
[14:06] (FreeTrad3) I dont care if he tried to get 100 Billion
[14:06] (gopp) we can't speak of insurance FreeTrad3
[14:06] (FreeTrad3) Most people try to get as much as insurance as possible
[14:06] (FreeTrad3) thats human nature
[14:06] (TheTailor) After leasing the complex, Silverstein negotiated with 24 insurance companies for a maximum coverage of $3.55 billion per catastrophic occurrence. However, the agreements had not been finalized before 9/11.
[14:06] (TheTailor) 3.55...
[14:06] (TheTailor) That's not 7
[14:06] (z00p) 3.5 X 2?
[14:06] (z00p) wtf is that?
[14:06] (FreeTrad3) What is the relvance of this
[14:06] (z00p) hmmmmm!
[14:06] (TheTailor) the agreements had not been finalized before 9/11.
[14:06] (z00p) no more spoon feeding today kids... i have work today
[14:06] (FreeTrad3) as jUdge I must ask where you are all going with this testimony
[14:07] (FreeTrad3) do we have a point coming up ?
[14:07] (astrodog) FT: z00p is using this to depend his 9/11 conspiracy nonsense.
[14:07] (FreeTrad3) Time to9 make a phone call well the masturbation about insurance goes on
[14:07] (gopp) [17:02] (TheTailor) z00p, After a three-month trial, jurors decided Thursday that the attacks should be considered a single event for nine insurance companies, which together are responsible for at least $1 billion in coverage.
[14:08] (FreeTrad3) zoop brought up insurance god knows why other than to conspiratorialize something I suspect
[14:08] (charlie|) Geez. There are sooo many other aspects that point out administration incompitence and lack of judgement, why do the conspiracy nuts insist on acting a fool about this stuff
[14:08] (Lupine) jesus christ.. they want to mandate that all day-care centers have all bullet proof glass, like in a bank
[14:08] (gopp) charlie| like what
[14:08] (charlie|) Lupine: Why not?
[14:08] (FreeTrad3) And so much to show his responsibility and good judgement and right action
[14:08] (astrodog) charl: That stuff is pretty expensive.
[14:08] (gopp) charlie| in a free market no has the rights to tell others wha to do
[14:08] (charlie|) Of course financially it's kind of silly
[14:08] (FreeTrad3) Bush has dont the right thing, it hasnt always gone well and he has made mistakes.
[14:08] (Lupine) charlie|: hey, lets ban *ALL* regular glass! everything must be bullet proof glass!
[14:09] (FreeTrad3) But his major decisions like going to war in Iraq which congress btw signed off on, Were good decisions
[14:09] (charlie|) Well, the outline would be that they're just trying to protect the kids
[14:09] (FreeTrad3) Hagel even signed off on war with Iraq
[14:09] (FreeTrad3) So did Hillary
[14:09] (charlie|) I do understand that aspect
[14:09] (FreeTrad3) They signed a statment authorizing war
[14:09] (ManKind) FreeTrad3 under faulty intelligence that came from the white house
[14:09] (FreeTrad3) and now they pretend they didnt really mean it
[14:09] (FreeTrad3) what fucking bullshit
[14:09] (FreeTrad3) COngressmen should know that you cant run backwards from nyour legislation
[14:10] (FreeTrad3) if you said it at the time you meant it at the time
[14:10] (FreeTrad3) you can say, I believe now I was wrong
[14:10] (FreeTrad3) But at the time I believed it was right to go to war
[14:10] (charlie|) FT: Eh, accountability is something this administration has not done a very good job in showing
[14:10] (FreeTrad3) at least bush isnt lying about his position
[14:10] (DopeyDo) what about wtc7 ?
[14:10] (FreeTrad3) hes been consistant and honest about it
[14:10] (charlie|) (in all fairness) to the critics
[14:10] (ManKind) FreeTrad3 constant, yes
[14:10] (ManKind) consistant*
[14:10] (FreeTrad3) Example of accountability ?
[14:10] (observer) "THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, Brian. Laura and I are happy to be here. I'd like to thank the Radio and TV Correspondents Association for providing dinner tonight. And I'd like to thank Senator Webb for providing security. (Laughter and applause.)"
[14:10] (FreeTrad3) Give me an example...
[14:11] (charlie|) But I say again, there are plenty of legit reasons to critque Bush, I wish the 9/11 conspiracy nuts would go away
[14:11] (charlie|) FT: Iraq/Borders/Government Expansion/Government Spending
[14:11] (FreeTrad3) Yeah and there are a lot of things to praise Bush about which in fact people did praise him for which they have forgotten.
[14:11] (charlie|) To name the big ticket issues
[14:11] (ManKind) FreeTrad3 which one?
[14:12] (charlie|) Sure, Bush has done OK on economic issues
[14:12] (charlie|) We've held tight as a war time economy
[14:12] (ManKind) and please dont say his golden child domestic program no child left behind
[14:12] (FreeTrad3) Even fucking Dan RTather says Bushs speech after 911 was the best speech he had seen since pearl harbor
[14:12] (FreeTrad3) Then a month later hes back to bush bashing
[14:12] (ManKind) FreeTrad3 speeches dont make for an honest and strong leader
[14:12] (charlie|) Critique of Bush though isn't = Bush bashing
[14:12] (ManKind) yay! bush made a good speech!
[14:12] (charlie|) Bush bashing really depends on the person
[14:12] (charlie|) Like Rosie
[14:12] (ManKind) beset president ever
[14:13] (charlie|) She's just Bush bashing
[14:13] (FreeTrad3) Its amazing to me that moment of clarity and unity the nation had, where bush was polled at 92% approval rating the highest in US history..
[14:13] (ManKind) clarity?
[14:13] (charlie|) FT: Yes, and since then people have seen what Iraq (still is)
[14:13] (ManKind) more blinded by nationalism and fear
[14:13] (FreeTrad3) I dont understand it because I know people who would hate bush if he won the war, gave peace to the middle east, cured aids and cancer and gave all his money to charity they would still hate him with a passion rarely seeen
[14:13] (charlie|) They've seen how our congress rubber stamped spending bill after spending for Bush
[14:13] (FreeTrad3) Rubber stamped ?
[14:14] (FreeTrad3) They knew what they were doing
[14:14] (FreeTrad3) they knew exactly what they were doing.
[14:14] (charlie|) They've seen Bush tack on new cabnet level departments of government and Bearucratic positions
[14:14] (FreeTrad3) Dems and republicans
[14:14] (ManKind) now bush bitches that he doesnt get a blank check on military spending
[14:14] (FreeTrad3) OH is someone going to ask me why I capitalized dems, And the H in this sentence ?
[14:14] (DopeyDo) nwo
[14:14] (FreeTrad3) gOD i AM SICK OF PEDANTIC ARROGANT PRICKS
[14:14] (charlie|) Bush has spent like a wild man, expanded government to rival any left politician, Done 0 for controlling illegal immigration
[14:15] (charlie|) Even though he's held tight on a war time economy and done wel
[14:15] (charlie|) Along with his tax cuts Which I liked
[14:15] (FreeTrad3) They think thier expertise at grammar makes them little genious's and all it does it proves they were well trained dogs.
[14:15] (charlie|) His negatives are starting to outweigh his positives
[14:15] (FreeTrad3) Fetch a bone for me.
[14:15] (ManKind) starting lol
[14:15] (charlie|) Man: Well, I am trying to be nice
[14:16] (charlie|) I don't "Bush Bash"
[14:16] (ManKind) FreeTrad3 why are you bitching about an imaginary user that didnt attack your grammar?
[14:16] (charlie|) I have legit concerns and reasons for the
[14:16] (charlie|) them*
[14:16] (FreeTrad3) People seem to thing the presidency is a piece of cake when your presidency suffers the worst attack on US soil since the civil war, and thwe worst natural disastor in the countries history
[14:16] (FreeTrad3) Its amazing how well bush kept it together mistakes and all.
[14:17] (charlie|) FT: No, it's not at all. But people don't like the secrecy and "closed door" policy making this administration has done
[14:17] (FreeTrad3) ANdf managed to keep a booming economy and see the deficit rapidly decrease
[14:17] (DopeyDo) North American Union to Replace the USA?
[14:17] (FreeTrad3) Yes Bush can do much better
[14:17] (ManKind) FreeTrad3 poor bush, he had to deal with katrina
[14:17] (FreeTrad3) And yes he has been focused mostly on the war
[14:17] (ManKind) his war
[14:17] (TheTailor) charlie|, policy is up to the administration to make.
[14:17] (observer) DopeyDo: i don't think so
[14:17] (FreeTrad3) as you would expect a war president to do.
[14:17] (FreeTrad3) NOone conservatives or otherwise have cut him any slack at all.
[14:17] (DrunkOnNO) haha
[14:17] (FreeTrad3) Its disgusting
[14:18] (charlie|) TT: Sure, but don't blame the people when the closed door policies are throwing your approvals in the toilet because of your mistakes
[14:18] (FreeTrad3) Lest see these critics handle an attack of the magnitude of 911 and katrina and a lot more.
[14:18] (TheTailor) charlie|, it's not an open door session, never has been.
[14:18] (ManKind) FreeTrad3 how much slack do you expect people to cut him? being president is a "hard job" bush said so himself...if you cant handle the hard job, dont apply for it
[14:18] (FreeTrad3) DO people realize our whole government had been changed ?
[14:18] (charlie|) Even if you factor out Iraq, which is big in itself ...you still have government expansion, government spending
[14:19] (TheTailor) charlie|, and growing population that demands it.
[14:19] (charlie|) A growing issue with illegal immigration
[14:19] (FreeTrad3) We have completely realigned the government and rebuilt the bureaus for intelligence and counterintelligence and so on
[14:19] (TheTailor) charlie|, talk to congress
[14:19] (charlie|) TT: Oh you mean the new congress?
[14:19] (FreeTrad3) All this too while the war and the worst natural disastor in history was going on.
[14:19] (ManKind) FreeTrad3 and that realignment had a large part in the failures of katrina
[14:19] (TheTailor) charlie|, sure, why not, and good luck.
[14:19] (charlie|) Because of course, now that democrats took over they can act as a dump
[14:19] (charlie|) That republicans can use
[14:20] (TheTailor) charlie|, are you thinking they will take on the immigration issue? That would be mean, they won't do it.
[14:20] (ManKind) FreeTrad3 you do understand the neocon point of view correct? it was around long before bush, 9/11 was an oppertunity for them to regain their power
[14:20] (charlie|) TT: So none of the spending was an issue during the Republican controlled House and Senate?
[14:20] (TheTailor) charlie|, are we talking about then, or now?
[14:21] (TheTailor) charlie|, I thought the Democrats were voted in for change, where's the immigration issue?
[14:21] (FreeTrad3) WHo insisted the entire 911 comittee reccomendations be put in place for bush to get any funding ?
[14:21] (ManKind) TheTailor it is coming
[14:21] (SweetLeaf) I am so sick of Katrina dont that state have a govenor and a mayor and a city council and state reps why was katrina the presidents fault the mayor fucked up he wasnt even there and the gov did not ask for help
[14:21] (FreeTrad3) Who ?
[14:21] (charlie|) TT: Why are you thinking I am saying democrats will do any better?
[14:21] (FreeTrad3) And what made the 911 comission god
[14:21] (ManKind) 911 committee was a joke
[14:21] (charlie|) That's not really the point
[14:21] (TheTailor) ManKind, really? When? Is it on any agenda?
[14:21] (FreeTrad3) and made everything they said right ?
[14:21] (charlie|) Honestly, I don'
[14:21] (charlie|) don't think they can
[14:21] (FreeTrad3) I dont agree every recommendation the 911 commiteee made was correct
[14:21] (FreeTrad3) I dont agree.
[14:21] (FreeTrad3) WHy should bush ageee
[14:21] (TheTailor) You don't think they can?
[14:22] (TheTailor) Why not?
[14:22] (FreeTrad3) why do democrats give then carte blanch
[14:22] (charlie|) TT: I just don't
[14:22] (TheTailor) haha, of course they can, they won't.
[14:22] (charlie|) =\
[14:22] (TheTailor) charlie|, that woudl be descriminatory.
[14:22] (TheTailor) The left can't do it.
[14:22] (charlie|) Why is it when you talk about an issue like spending or expansion it always turns into a democrat finger pointing session in here
[14:23] * charlie| sighs
[14:23] (TheTailor) charlie|, well they were "swept" into office to take care of these issues weren't they?
[14:23] (ManKind) 1, bush will veto anything rather than work with them
[14:24] (charlie|) TT: OK, you're just trolling for a partisan fight
[14:24] (TheTailor) ManKind, has that been the norm?
[14:24] (charlie|) You're trying to turn this into a demo vs republican sludge match
[14:24] (TheTailor) charlie|, no I'm not, were they or were they not voted in to take care of these issues?
[14:24] (charlie|) Yes you are
[14:24] (ManKind) TheTailor not during the republican congress, but he has threatened to wield it more in the last 2 months than he did the whole rest of his presidency
[14:24] (charlie|) That's why you're insisting on trying to troll me with sarcastic montra
[14:24] (TheTailor) charlie|, were they or were they not voted in to take care of these issues?
[14:24] (charlie|) Im not goign to get into a partisan fight
[14:25] (FreeTrad3) Well I need to work..
[14:25] (charlie|) About who is the better party
[14:25] (astrodog) charlie++.
[14:25] (TheTailor) charlie|, how about an answer to a simple question?
[14:25] (TheTailor) charlie|, were they or were they not voted in to take care of these issues?
[14:25] (BillFrugg) Bush entered office and tried to set a new tone. That has turned around and stabbed him in the back
[14:25] (charlie|) Im not goign to get into a partisan fight about who the better party is
[14:25] (charlie|) Sorry
[14:25] (charlie|) I said that already
[14:25] (CryHavoc) voted in...they were bought for fair and Square.....
[14:25] (ManKind) buoght for lol
[14:25] (charlie|) astrodog: ?
[14:26] (CryHavoc) they both suck....
[14:26] (CryHavoc) L:)
[14:26] (TheTailor) ManKind, as I remember it Bush has only used the veto threat with this micromanaging of the war by congress.
[14:26] (FreeTrad3) WAIT
[14:26] (FreeTrad3) Are you talking about the democratic win ?
[14:26] (FreeTrad3) I Would note a couple things.
[14:26] (CryHavoc) the dems did not win because of their platform....
[14:26] (CryHavoc) they won because the GOP was stewing in its own foul corruption
[14:26] (TheTailor) CryHavoc, that's probably true.
[14:26] (ManKind) they won because the policy of the administration is bad in the eyes of the voters
[14:27] (FreeTrad3) A) Mark foley may have been a major reason for the gop losses and the other thing is why have the most conservative bunch of democrats I have seen elected in ages been elected instead of more tradtional democratic candidates ?
[14:27] (charlie|) Foley?
[14:27] (FreeTrad3) WE got one Senator Democrat packing heat into the Senate ?
[14:27] (FreeTrad3) And why ?
[14:27] (CryHavoc) Foley did not do anything wrong...
[14:27] (TheTailor) ManKind, I doubt that. I think they won because the Republicans spent like drunken sailors.
[14:27] (FreeTrad3) BEcauswe the president has protection and he doesnt.
[14:27] (charlie|) So you're chucking it all to a scandle?
[14:27] (CryHavoc) and amusingly enough...only 3 of Floridas HRs are dem
[14:27] (FreeTrad3) So he carries a gun to get his protectioin ?
[14:27] (ManKind) FreeTrad3 because the public is sick of tihs neocon ultra right wing republican party...they would rather vote for a conservative democratic candidate
[14:28] (FreeTrad3) I am not even opposed to his reasoning if he wants to do that.
[14:28] (CryHavoc) Mankind...and get as much done...
[14:28] (ManKind) TheTailor the administrations policy caused them to spend like drunken sailors
[14:28] (FreeTrad3) But the funny thing is there was no major ideological change in the last election.
[14:28] (FreeTrad3) There was not
[14:28] (charlie|) FT: You're opposed because he's a democrat
[14:28] (BillFrugg) ManKind, if you believe that, you're delusional
[14:28] (CryHavoc) btw.....Bush falls FAR short of an Arch rightie
[14:28] (FreeTrad3) NO I said I wAS NOT OPPPOSED
[14:28] (charlie|) IF it were a republican guns right people would be jumping up and down
[14:28] (FreeTrad3) I said I dont care
[14:28] (ManKind) FreeTrad3 there was, it was an idealogical pull back to the center
[14:28] (observer) FreeTrad3: did you see bush's speech last night? the joke about jim webb?
[14:29] (observer) THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, Brian. Laura and I are happy to be here. I'd like to thank the Radio and TV Correspondents Association for providing dinner tonight. And I'd like to thank Senator Webb for providing security. (Laughter and applause.)
[14:29] (FreeTrad3) But had that been Republican democrats would be screaming at the top of their lungs.
[14:29] (FreeTrad3) I hear a deafening silence.
[14:29] (FreeTrad3) I support his right to keep and bear arms
[14:29] (FreeTrad3) Iwish we all had those same rights appreciated
[14:29] (ManKind) BillFrugg how so? the war in iraq cost a lot of money, thus spending a lot of money, how is that delisional
[14:30] (ManKind) sounds pretty straightforward to me
[14:30] (charlie|) Man: I do agree to part of that
[14:30] (BillFrugg) ManKind, for it to have been a defeat of conservatism, why didn't the democrats offer something? Why did Lieberman win?
[14:30] (FreeTrad3) It does make me a little nervour though that a guy who said he would like to slug the president (How Senatorial) Carried a weapon while he is near the president.
[14:30] (e-Hernick) greetings, fellow right-wing hardliners
[14:30] (FreeTrad3) that might bother me a little bit given his past violent statements
[14:30] (charlie|) ManKind: After all, who needs a bank when you can write checks in the name of the War on Terror
[14:30] (ManKind) FreeTrad3 slugging the president is a lot different than killing him
[14:30] (ManKind) charlie| exactly
[14:30] (FreeTrad3) But otherwise I fully support his right to keep and bear arms
[14:30] (observer) charlie|: the intent to harm is the same
[14:31] (FreeTrad3) A senator wanting to hit the president is unfit to be a senator
[14:31] (FreeTrad3) I dont care what party you are in
[14:31] (ManKind) i feel like slugging people sometimes, but that doesnt mean i would shoot them if i had a gun
[14:31] (FreeTrad3) IN Democracies we settle differences with votes
[14:31] (charlie|) The administration /has/ used whether you want to admit it or not the "War on Terror" to basically spend like there was no tomorrow
[14:31] (observer) but you intend to hurt right?
[14:31] (e-Hernick) observer: no, when you slug somebody, you hope for them to be hurt, when you shoot them, you hope for them to be dead
[14:31] (charlie|) And expand as well
[14:31] (ManKind) FreeTrad3 votes and vetos
[14:31] (FreeTrad3) not with immature threats of violence against the president or others in government
[14:31] (gopp) FreeTrad3 did jefferson always resolves stuff with votes
[14:31] (ManKind) FreeTrad3 he was stating his feelings, not threatening
[14:31] (FreeTrad3) And all we know about this guy is he got elected
[14:31] (FreeTrad3) we dont know if hes capable of murder or not.
[14:32] (ManKind) FreeTrad3 come on dude, get real
[14:32] (charlie|) I honestly believe in tweaking national security to keep us safe, but I believe the "War on Terror" belongs right next to Global Warming, War on Drugs, and War on Poverty
[14:32] (e-Hernick) FreeTrad3: do you think that no single republican senator ever expressed a desire to slap, spank or slug Clinton for his sexual violations and serious crimes of perjury and more?
[14:32] (charlie|) It's been overblown to be used as a politicized alarmist campaign paltform
[14:32] (FreeTrad3) I mean look YOU can be elected to the Senate by vote even if you are a serial killer.. Because they are Senators does not prove they are statesman like, or they are noble.
[14:32] (charlie|) "War on Terror"
[14:32] (e-Hernick) there are plenty of examples of stupid senators
[14:33] (e-Hernick) and of invalid senators
[14:33] (FreeTrad3) in fact a senator threatening violence against someone in the federal government makes you wonder if he isnt just a common thug
[14:33] (charlie|) Republicans have the War on Terror, and Democrats have Global Warming
[14:33] (ManKind) FreeTrad3 he didnt threaten, he expressed his feelings
[14:33] (ManKind) there is a difference
[14:33] (FreeTrad3) Sure there are examples of dumb senators.
[14:33] (e-Hernick) FreeTrad3: do you think that it is unprecedented for a senator to say such things?
[14:34] (charlie|) Sure, like 75% of them
[14:34] (e-Hernick) I mean, has it never happened that another senator has said something comparable?
[14:34] (charlie|) I think we need to clean house in the senate
[14:34] (charlie|) get rid of 75%
[14:34] (e-Hernick) not to mention that it was said more in jest than in anger
[14:34] (charlie|) We also need term limits, but that won't ever happen
[14:34] (FreeTrad3) But while at the whitehouse, perhaps they should leave their weapons on their car or something. Its gett pretty heated on the floor of the congress and in the halls of the whitehouse other than the secret service I dont know if they need guns inside... if they do then security isnt sufficient
[14:34] (charlie|) They enjoy being career politicians too much
[14:34] (e-Hernick) I figure that a significant proportion of senators have, at some point in their lives, made a physical threat against someone
[14:35] (e-Hernick) FreeTrad3: uhm, an armed senate is a polite senate
[14:35] (FreeTrad3) ehernick unprecedented ? Of course not, Burr and Hamilton
[14:35] (e-Hernick) FreeTrad3: senators used to beat each others with canes, and challenge each other to duels
[14:35] (FreeTrad3) But its not 1800 anymore
[14:35] (FreeTrad3) and things are much more complex.
[14:35] (e-Hernick) maybe we should give them canes
[14:35] (e-Hernick) let them fight it out
[14:35] (FreeTrad3) well maybe.
[14:35] (e-Hernick) dems vs reps!
[14:35] (FreeTrad3) I have to go
[14:36] (e-Hernick) I wonder who would win
[14:36] (e-Hernick) the dems are wusses, but they have greater numbers
[14:36] (e-Hernick) but not by much
[14:36] (thx1138^) I keep and bear arms...I call the "left gun" and "right gun" *flexes*
[14:36] (e-Hernick) and they've got a couple women
[14:36] (thx1138^) jk.
[14:36] (charlie|) heh
[14:36] (charlie|) dems vs reps, thats the problem now
[14:36] (e-Hernick) Who are the most powerful democrat senators, in hand combat?
[14:36] (charlie|) I don't believe any of them
[14:37] (e-Hernick) and who are the most powerful republican senators
[14:37] (e-Hernick) again in physical comat
[14:37] (e-Hernick) combat
[14:37] (charlie|) They're all full of shit career politicians that would rather point the finger in the other direction then take responsibility for themselves
[14:37] (e-Hernick) I think the republicans have some old sportsman who can kill ten democrats with his bare hands
[14:38] (charlie|) The only thing different about them is democrats hike taxes
[14:38] (charlie|) Republicans cut them
[14:38] (e-Hernick) republicans borrow to pay for wars :)
[14:38] (e-Hernick) republicans spent money they don't have :)
[14:38] (e-Hernick) there are plenty of slogans
[14:38] (e-Hernick) that go either way
[14:38] (e-Hernick) they say very little
[14:38] (charlie|) True
[14:38] (ivy^) but they sway opinion
[14:39] (charlie|) If I were a creditor, seeing the (R) alone would easily make me deny the loan
[14:39] (e-Hernick) in my opinion, only a single slogan is needed to win it all
[14:39] (e-Hernick) "Democrats are Pirates!"
[14:39] (ivy^) "rough truth" works for politics
[14:39] (astrodog) Arr!
[14:39] (charlie|) lol
[14:39] (ivy^) "The world doesn't run on fine distinctions"
[14:39] (ivy^) hehe
[14:39] (astrodog) Avast, ye conservative land lubbers!
[14:39] (TheTailor) e-Hernick, and Democrats borrow to support social programs, you know, sending out checks for votes.
[14:39] (e-Hernick) as for democrats, it's all in the "nuance
[14:39] (astrodog) :P
[14:40] (TheTailor) e-Hernick, didn't Democrats, you know, support the war and give Bush authority?
[14:40] (e-Hernick) TheTailor: both parties are corrupt and evil, I was just providing slogan examples.
[14:40] (e-Hernick) I don't support the democrats.
[14:40] (charlie|) Someone the other day tried to justify the creation of the DHS, I told them yea .. we really needed a new cabnet level dept. of government going around looknig for lite-brites under bridges
[14:40] (charlie|) God bless the DHS!
[14:40] (TheTailor) e-Hernick, now I understand you are a Canadian so you might not be in touch with that.
[14:40] * e-Hernick voted for the most conservative party in the last General Election of Quebec, last Monday.
[14:40] * e-Hernick votes conservative or libertarian, depending on the election.
[14:41] (e-Hernick) if I were an American, I would vote libertarian.
[14:41] * charlie| throws an ATHF lite-brite @ astrodog
[14:41] (e-Hernick) I don't like either of your two big parties
[14:41] (astrodog) e-Hern: Liar.
[14:41] (astrodog) Seperatist!
[14:41] (astrodog) :P
[14:41] (observer) hah!
[14:41] (e-Hernick) 3raepihr!@D#
[14:41] (e-Hernick) that's the worst insult
[14:42] (e-Hernick) I've never been this hurt!
[14:42] (e-Hernick) being called... argh... even saying the word hurts, so much I hate it..
[14:42] (charlie|) lol
[14:42] (e-Hernick) a separatist!
[14:42] (e-Hernick) separatist scum!
[14:42] (e-Hernick) I spit on them and their political organisation!
[14:42] (charlie|) Eventually one can only hope both democrats and republicans will burn down in flames
[14:43] (astrodog) Bloc du Quebecios isn't it?
[14:43] (TheTailor) charlie|, really, then what?
[14:43] (e-Hernick) astrodog: they have two parties.. the Bloc Quebecois at the federal level
[14:43] (astrodog) charlie: The RNC has been around for... what 150 years? The DNC something like 200 and change?
[14:43] (e-Hernick) and the Parti Quebecois at the provincial level
[14:43] (charlie|) TT: The world will come to an end?
[14:43] (charlie|) lol
[14:43] (TheTailor) charlie|, how about martial law.
[14:44] (charlie|) astrodog: Yea =\
[14:44] (TheTailor) charlie|, would you like that better?
[14:44] (TheTailor) The RNC and DNC aren't near that old I bet.
[14:44] (charlie|) TT: Not really
[14:45] (TheTailor) charlie|, well that's what you will get if both parties as you say, burn down.
[14:45] (charlie|) TT: I am thinking it would pave the way for more moderate independant types
[14:45] (charlie|) TT: Relax, you only care about the R
[14:45] (charlie|) anyways
[14:45] (charlie|) if you had you're way you would have 1 party =D
[14:45] (TheTailor) charlie|, you don't know what I care about.
[14:46] (TheTailor) charlie|, you would be wise not to put words in my mouth.
[14:46] (charlie|) Yea, I am so suuure you would want democrats around if you had the choice to see them go down in flames
[14:46] * e-Hernick puts words in TheTailor's mouth
[14:46] (astrodog) TT cares only about maple syrup.... and candy corn.
[14:46] (TheTailor) charlie|, in fact, I aske you a simple question earlier and you dodged it.
[14:46] (charlie|) TT: I didn't dodge it. I chose not to get into your little partisan bickering match
[14:47] (charlie|) About how fucking great the republicans are
[14:47] (charlie|) =D
[14:47] (charlie|) And how much democrats suck
[14:47] (RobVanDam) e-Hernick: as opposed to other things that have been in there
[14:47] (RobVanDam) :)
[14:47] (TheTailor) charlie|, actually, since you don't know where I stand, I don't mind Democrats at all, it's leftist idiots that bug me.
[14:47] (charlie|) Really, name a democrat you like
[14:47] (TheTailor) charlie|, it wasn't a partisan question.
[14:47] (e-Hernick) JFK
[14:47] (TheTailor) Leiberman.
[14:47] (e-Hernick) Zell Miller
[14:47] (charlie|) lol
[14:47] (astrodog) I don't mind democrats... its just the ones who agree with the party?
[14:48] (astrodog) TT: You wouldn't like Liberman on anything except Iraq, and you know it.
[14:48] (charlie|) Somehow that doesn't shock me
[14:48] (TheTailor) astrodog, gee, you turned into a mind reader?
[14:48] (charlie|) astro: I agree
[14:48] (e-Hernick) astrodog is a witch
[14:48] (astrodog) e-Hern: Yet, I weigh more than a duck.
[14:48] (astrodog) TT: Name a policy of Liberman's, besides Iraq, that you agree with.
[14:49] (e-Hernick) astrodog: sorcery!
[14:49] * observer calls up dionne warwick
[14:49] (charlie|) lol
[14:49] (charlie|) This should be fun
[14:49] (charlie|) I think I see the Google gears a turnin
[14:49] (observer) wasn't her name madame cleo or something liek that?
[14:49] (e-Hernick) Entertainment industry and video games: Lieberman co-sponsored an act to restrict the sale of violent video games to minors.
[14:50] (astrodog) e-Hern: HEH.
[14:50] (astrodog) If that's the best you can find... I rest my case. :P
[14:50] (e-Hernick) Israel: Lieberman has consistently expressed solidarity with Israel against its Palestinian and Arab opponents.
[14:50] (TheTailor) charlie|, are you in Austrailia?
[14:50] (e-Hernick) Geneva Conventions: Lieberman supported the Alberto Gonzales memo on the provisions of the Geneva Conventions.
[14:50] (charlie|) Anyways, got to run. The republicans here are so transparent I can see right through the bullshit but it's always fun for shits and giggles
[14:50] (RobVanDam) e-Hernick:palestinian?
[14:50] (e-Hernick) TT: do you share any of these positions from Lieberman?
[14:50] (charlie|) lol no answer so now he's picking on my host
[14:50] (TheTailor) charlie|, of course you do.
[14:51] (charlie|) Anyways, got to run later =)
[14:51] (TheTailor) e-Hernick, Over the years I've seen Leiberman make good sense.
[14:51] (e-Hernick) Gun control: Lieberman has supported gun control measures and has received an "F" rating from the National Rifle Association.
[14:51] (TheTailor) In fact, depending on who was running, I might vote for him.
[14:51] (e-Hernick) doesn't sound like good sense to me!
[14:51] (e-Hernick) And F from the NRA!
[14:51] (TheTailor) I would definately vote for Miller if he ran.
[14:52] (astrodog) e-Hern: He's also... basically a socialist. Heh.
[14:52] (TheTailor) astrodog, you don't know what they are until they are in office.
[14:52] (astrodog) Liberman's been in office. For quite awhile.
[14:52] (TheTailor) As president
[14:53] (e-Hernick) I say the presidents of the US should be successively
[14:53] (e-Hernick) Bush 41, Clinton/Gore 42, Bush 43, Clinton/Gore 44
[14:53] (CGI654) Lieberman's not basically a socialist. He's just not an ultra-conservative.
[14:53] (Aufk|aren) Looks like the Russians fucked us over in the UN.
[14:53] (Aufk|aren) The statement was watered down.
[14:54] (Aufk|aren) It expresses "grave concern" at the detention of the British soldiers.
[14:54] (astrodog) Aufk: No suprise there.
[14:54] (CGI654) Auf: shocker, but the Iranians are 'cooperating less with the IAEA' anyway
[14:54] (Aufk|aren) Looks, at this point, like it makes no mention of the fact they were in Iraqi territory.
[14:54] (Aufk|aren) Which is what the British wanted.
[14:54] * BillFrugg laughs at CGI654
[14:54] (e-Hernick) Aufk|aren: the soldiers have admitted that they had violated Iran's most private seas, repeatedly!
[14:54] (Aufk|aren) e-Hernick: No, they haven't.
[14:54] * CGI654 laughs and points at BillFrugg, also for no apparent reason.
[14:54] (e-Hernick) Aufk|aren: they have done so on national Iranian TV! It is the truth in Iran.
[14:54] (JustinFra) its not really so clear cut that the British marines were in iraqi territory, apaprently there is no agreed border
[14:55] (e-Hernick) Nobody in Iran believes otherwise, lest they be killed at once.
[14:55] (CGI654) what's clear is Iran should have its ass kicked.
[14:55] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: Then why are the Iranians using the exact same line we're using, and why when they first gave us the coordinates and it turned out even they showed they were in Iraqi territory the Iranians hurriedly came up with another set?
[14:55] (e-Hernick) CGI654: do you support the use of tactical nuclear devices to kick Iran's ass?
[14:55] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: How predictable that you would be supporting the Iranian position on this.
[14:55] (CGI654) e-H: if militarily necessary.
[14:55] (CGI654) Auf: yeah, what else.
[14:55] (JustinFra) aufklaren.. go ask the former british ambasador who tried to negotiate the border and said there was no agreement
[14:56] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: The Iranians are using the EXACT SAME LINE we are in order to prove their claims.
[14:56] (Aufk|aren) The British use the line, the Iranians use the line, the debate is to what side they were on.
[14:56] (e-Hernick) CGI654: tactical nuclear devices will greatly reduce the civilian collateral, and it will be possible to use our existing MIRV delivery vehicles, which are going to be decommissioned anyway. We load them with small nukes, and send perhaps 100 of them on Iran's most tempting military targets, at once.
[14:56] (Aufk|aren) And the Iranians have changed their story, and the British have evidence.
[14:56] (CGI654) e-H: ok
[14:56] (e-Hernick) CGI654: Those are small tactical nukes, of course, so civilian casualties are reduced.
[14:56] (JustinFra) auf.. i think the iranians are looking for some leverage over the iranians held by the US.. its simple politics
[14:56] (BillFrugg) it should be apparent that Iran wants us out of Iraq, and is aiding the terrorists there
[14:56] (observer) http://www.american.edu/ted/ice/iraniraq.htm ((--iran/iraq waterway claims
[14:56] (Aufk|aren) If you think this has anything to do with territory, you're an idiot. It was a calculated decision on the behalf of the Iranians to kidnap British soldiers.
[14:56] (Aufk|aren) It had nothing to do with territory.
[14:57] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: Simple politics or not, it's illegal, aggressive and inexcusable.
[14:57] (CGI654) I think it was a stupid attempt to gain leverage, but it's backfiring, as it should.
[14:57] (Aufk|aren) The Americans arrested the Iranians on Iraqi soil for aiding the insurgency, which is their legal right.
[14:57] (BillFrugg) exactly, Aufk. We are holding prisoner several Iranians who were caught assisting terrorists/insurgents in Iraq
[14:57] (Aufk|aren) The Iranians illegally entered foreign waters and kidnapped foreign soldiers carrying out a UN mandate.
[14:57] (JustinFra) aufklaren.. what is illegal agrresive and inexcusable? the US holding the iranians or the iranians holding the brits?
[14:57] (Aufk|aren) There's no equivelancy, so stop apologising for the Iranians.
[14:58] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: The US holding the Iranians is neither illegal nor aggressive. The Iranians abducting the Brits is both.
[14:58] (CGI654) the US holding the Iranians is fine. They're aiding insurgents.
[14:58] (JustinFra) lol aufklaren.. oh..,right.. ok
[14:58] (Lupine) JustinFra: as long as the Iranians are caputured within Iraq
[14:58] (Aufk|aren) The Iranians were not diplomats, they were Revolutionary Guard personnel aiding the insurgency.
[14:58] (BillFrugg) abducting soldiers is an act of war
[14:58] (CGI654) Justin's actually not even worthy of addressing. ignore.
[14:58] (Aufk|aren) Stop the relativistic bullshit. Iran is a shit hole, it's behaving like a rogue state, and it's time people stopped making excuses for it.
[14:59] (JustinFra) lupine.. the iranians in captured in iraq were there as guests of various iraqi shia militias.. you know. the ones who make up most of the iraqi govt
[14:59] (Lupine) Aufk|aren: its not that they want to make excuse for it.. but rather, they wish to make Bush/Blair "look bad".
[14:59] (Aufk|aren) I'm sick of hearing "oh well the Americans did this and that." It's not relevant. We're talking about the illegal and unwarranted kidnap of British soldiers.
[14:59] (BillFrugg) CGI, yeah. Justin is morally equating us and them
[14:59] (Lupine) JupaSaur: strange, i didn't know iraqi shia militias had any govn't standing.
[14:59] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: It doesn't matter if they were guests of the Queen of Sheba. They were there aiding the insurgency, which is against the law.
[14:59] (e-Hernick) i'm morally equating *you* to the level of a wombat!
[14:59] * _Forbin The New JibJab!! Its a riot rofl: http://www.jibjab.com/what_we_call_the_news
[14:59] (JustinFra) lol equating us and them? who do u think is getting treated better? the brit marines held by iran or the Iranian agents held by the US?
[14:59] (BillFrugg) Iran's actions are nothing new. Reagan had to destroy their navy twice
[15:00] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: Oh? Has America paraded them on TV in contravention of the Geneva Conventions?
[15:00] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: Has America forced them to read statements clearly under duress?
[15:00] (BillFrugg) Justin, we are definitely treating the Iranian agents better than they are treating the seamen
[15:00] (JustinFra) lolol aufklaren.. abu ghrain was ok as far as the geneva conventions go?
[15:00] (e-Hernick) BillFrugg: I want you to imagine how powerful Reagan would have been had he been able to develop a powerful orbital strike weapon that can destroy anything, anywhere, anytime.
[15:00] (JustinFra) billfrugg.. well if u can prove that i will happily change my mind
[15:00] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: We aren't talking about Abu Ghraib you twat. We're talking about British soldiers carrying out a UN mandate, and being abducted.
[15:01] (Aufk|aren) JustinFfra: Abu Ghraib has *NOTHING* to do with this.
[15:01] (pilgrim`) Pigs were seen recently and they DO fly!
[15:01] (pilgrim`) coach
[15:01] (gopp) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OoQGUsHiRA celia cruz
[15:01] (gopp) rip
[15:01] (gopp) good music
[15:01] (CryHavoc) yes...they are in Helicopters...
[15:01] (BillFrugg) JustinFra, their rights under the Geneva convention are being violated! They are being forced to write letters of confession!
[15:01] (JustinFra) (--waits for Bullfrugg to prove that the US treats the captured iranians well
[15:01] (gopp) JustinFra they are breaing froced to froce the female to wear viel bruaq
[15:01] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: Do you have any proof they mistreat them?
[15:01] (gopp) JustinFra that unfair
[15:01] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: The burden of proof is on you.
[15:01] (CryHavoc) no..the onus is on you JustinFra.,..
[15:02] (CGI654) Auf: he's going to be consistently stupid and justify anything vs the UK/US/Israel/the West all the time in every case, and support Iran/terrorists/the Muslim world in every case. So, really, why bother? :)
[15:02] (CryHavoc) prove that they are mistreated at Gitmo....
[15:02] (CGI654) gopp: Celia Cruz was a great singer.
[15:02] (gopp) JustinFra they are being forced to have females were a had scarf
[15:02] (gopp) CGI654 si chico
[15:02] (JustinFra) hard to give the US the benefit of the doubt after Abu Ghraib
[15:02] (CryHavoc) our Track record speaks volumes
[15:02] (BillFrugg) yes, justin. the onus of our 'mistreatment' of iranian prisoners is on you
[15:02] (pilgrim`) Justin we beat them sensless with bags full of pig urine while providing Koran enemas. like that nice?
[15:02] (jazzhole) Welcome to #politics: NO jews.
[15:02] (gopp) JustinFra was it us fault abu ghraib
[15:02] (CGI654) except me?
[15:02] (CryHavoc) out
[15:02] (JustinFra) pardon?
[15:02] (gopp) JustinFra burden on you to prove that
[15:03] (gopp) JustinFra was it usa fault what occured in abu ghraib?
[15:03] (gopp) was it
[15:03] (gopp) I think no
[15:03] (JustinFra) billfrug claimed that the US was treating the iranians better than the iranians were treating the brits. you'd think he would have some evidence to support that
[15:03] (gopp) I don't think so
[15:03] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: It's basically a mental illness with people like you. You have some inexplicable gut reaction to defend anyone who screws over the West. I'm sure you don't even know why you do it. There's simply no excuse here - the Iranians acted illegally, aggressively and kidnapped British troops not because of a territorial dispute but because their barbaric, backwards government thinks it's an acceptable tool in their battle with
[15:03] (gopp) JustinFra and the video proves that
[15:03] (e-Hernick) I think it was the fault of evil americans.
[15:03] (pilgrim`) gopp in a way it was, and to a degree it has been resolved
[15:03] (gopp) JustinFra the current video
[15:03] (JustinFra) gopp.. the videos from Abu Ghraib prove that?
[15:03] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: The proof is prima facie. The Americans are not parading the Iranians on TV, forcing them to read confessions and write letters to the press.
[15:03] (CGI654) you guys are way more patient than I am
[15:03] (BillFrugg) JustinFra, prove they are being abused!
[15:04] (e-Hernick) Yes, the Videos are the ultimate proof.
[15:04] (e-Hernick) However, I cannot show you the Videos, sorry. You will just have to believe that I hold the Ultimate Proof.
[15:04] (JustinFra) i can prove that the US has a record of mistreating prisoners in Iraq.. i doubt even in here people would deny that
[15:04] (FreeTrad3) Abusive Domain or User
[15:04] (WyldOcsar) What happened at Abu Ghraib prison was England's fault.
[15:04] (BillFrugg) fool!
[15:04] (WyldOcsar) Lyndie England
[15:04] (e-Hernick) pity the fool!
[15:04] * BillFrugg is away: AFK
[15:04] (e-Hernick) WyldOcsar: and her evil bf
[15:04] (observer) the waterway border has never been resolved?
[15:04] (TheTailor) The Iranians think they got away with it 20+ year ago, they can get away with it now.
[15:04] (JustinFra) observor.. nope
[15:05] * BillFrugg is back (gone 00:00:25)
[15:05] (BillFrugg) You cannot prove a negative...
[15:05] * BillFrugg is away: AFK
[15:05] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: The fact of the matter is that you have NO reason to think the Iranians are being mistreated. It has NEVER been US government policy to mistreat inmates, no matter what individual soldiers and units have done. The fact is that the Iranians are parading the British sailors on TV, making them give false confessions and statements, and behaving like a bunch of savages and not a modern nation.
[15:05] (JustinFra) why would people just give the US the benefit of the doubt after Abu Ghraib?
[15:05] (e-Hernick) You cannot prove anything, but you can prove it with reasonable certitude.
[15:06] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: Abu Ghraib was one incident, by low-ranking soldiers. We are talking about the policy of the Iranian state!
[15:06] (e-Hernick) By demonstrating facts, and using rhetorical tricks.
[15:06] (gopp) CGI654 did you know my uncle and dad used to have lunch with celia
[15:06] (gopp) in nyc
[15:06] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: We are talking about PROOF that these people are being mistreated, where you have NOTHING to suggest the Americans are mistreating the Iranians.
[15:06] (gopp) when they go to the bank
[15:06] (gopp) she had a account in the same account
[15:06] (gopp) the cuban american owned bank
[15:06] (gopp) so she would then go to the cuban restruant in uptown
[15:06] (gopp) and eat thier
[15:06] (gopp) my uncle said she was nice person
[15:06] (gopp) in person
[15:07] (JustinFra) once upon a time we could haev just assumed that the US treated prisoners well, sadly after Abu Ghraib, Bagram, Guantanamo bay, you can't that any more.. and that is a real trajedy
[15:08] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: No, it isn't. You're positively gleeful at it. It gives you some small pitiful excuse to equivocate over the barbaric and illegal seizure of British troops by Iran, and behave as though what Iran has done is no different to what our own countries do. Which is relativistic, mushy-headed nonsense. Iran kidnapped these troops as part of a preconceived plan. It is parading them on TV in disregard of international law and ci
[15:09] (JustinFra) far as I know, so far the iranians haev not subjected the British marines to waterboarding etc
[15:09] (observer) The first recorded treaty that involved the Shatt-al-Arab was The Peace Treaty of 1639 between the Persian and Ottoman Empires. This treaty established a border lacking in detail and conforming in large part to tribal loyalties. While this arrangement proved sufficient in most areas, this was not the case in the Shatt-al-Arab region. From the Persian perspective the waterway served as a natural border. However, the tribes on both side
[15:09] (Aufk|aren) .. behaviour. And all you can do is squawk about low-level American troops breaking the law at Abu Ghraib.
[15:09] (Aufk|aren) You're an arsehole.
[15:09] (Lupine) JustinFra: lol.. those are NOTHING compared to what went on during WWII
[15:10] (JustinFra) lupine... well i think both sides committed war crimes during ww2, tho those of the nazis were trully terrible. but its not really much of an excuse for torture now
[15:10] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra, you should have a long hard think about the people you've been defending in here and why.
[15:11] (DrunkOnNO) whatever
[15:11] (pilgrim`) Auf waste of bandwidth amici
[15:11] (gopp) JustinFra you defend also iran why
[15:11] (JustinFra) still, i hope we can all agree that it would be disgusting for the Iranians to start waterboarding those British marines.. right?
[15:11] (pilgrim`) oH GOSH! we are subjecting them to Loud Music and and and......its JOHN TESH!
[15:12] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: Britain has never waterboarded anyone. Your constant references to America are useless and irrelevant.
[15:12] (pilgrim`) waterboard? thats a sport right?
[15:12] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: Stop scraping around for excuses to turn a blind eye to the seizure of the British soldiers and the barbarity of your friends in Tehran.
[15:12] (JustinFra) are we agree that it would be disgusting if iran started waterboarding the British marines?
[15:12] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: It's irrelevant.
[15:13] (Aufk|aren) You're a political toddler. I've seen six year olds construct a better argument.
[15:13] (JustinFra) can we not agree that waterboarding is disgusting?
[15:13] (Aufk|aren) Yes, it is.
[15:13] (JustinFra) lol wow.. great
[15:13] (Aufk|aren) Britain doesn't do it, so it's irrelevant.
[15:13] (Aufk|aren) Move on.
[15:13] (CGI654) Auf: hence, ignore. :)
[15:14] (Aufk|aren) CGI654: May as well. He's not even putting up a defence of the sort of crap he has been coming out with. It's not worth wasting time on him.
[15:14] (JustinFra) sadly the British Marines have found themselves caught up in a political game and the Iranians will use them to try to get their own agents released by the yanks. would be interesting to find out how well the yanks haev treated their iranians prisoners tho
[15:15] (pilgrim`) I am sorry, I am from America so I do not speak the same slang; "waterboarding" is aform of west cast surfing here. what exactly do you mean
[15:15] (syoung333) f'ing google it
[15:15] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: Is that the most condemnation you can summon? "Caught up in a political game"?
[15:16] (Aufk|aren) No mention of the flagrant illegality and aggression of what the Iranians have been doing? The completely uncivilised and savage way in which they've behaved?
[15:16] (syoung333) savage?
[15:16] (machrider) hey
[15:16] (Aufk|aren) Yes, savage.
[15:16] (machrider) i have a question
[15:16] (syoung333) how so?
[15:16] (JustinFra) aufklaren.. its a tregedy for the marines and their families, tho personally i am hopeful they will be released unharmed.. but iran will try to use them
[15:17] (Aufk|aren) syoung333: This is the sort of thing terrorists or Kalashnikov-armed "insurgents" do. Savages. It's not the behaviour of a modern, civilised nation-state.
[15:17] (machrider) i have nothing against gay people but i am against sodomy, i think it should be banned for both homosexuals and heterosexuals. does that make me a homophobe
[15:17] (machrider) i think not
[15:17] (syoung333) lol..americans shouldn't be throwing stones at glass houses
[15:17] (machrider) yet others claim that I am
[15:17] (Aufk|aren) syoung333: What on earth makes you think I'm an American?
[15:17] (pilgrim`) this fellow is reading press statements and typing them?
[15:17] (syoung333) you sounded stupid
[15:17] (astrodog) http://www.weather.com/outlook/homeandgarden/home/local/74136?from=hp_promolocator&lswe=74136&lwsa=Weather36HourHomeCommand
[15:17] (JustinFra) i'm curious tho.. exactly what have the iranians done to the british marines that is soooo savage?
[15:17] (Aufk|aren) syoung333: Oh, go fuck yourself.
[15:17] (astrodog) Big storms in OK.
[15:17] (machrider) can someone please answer my question
[15:18] (JustinFra) machrider.. maybe it makes u a sodomyophobe?
[15:18] (rond) syoung33 aufk is from the UK
[15:18] (rond) asshatr
[15:18] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: Are you stupid, or merely blind? They have paraded them on TV. They have forced them to make false confessions and write false statements. They are holding them against their will, and using them as a pawn in their battle against the West. How, on earth, is that anything but savage?
[15:18] (machrider) thats not a bad thing i suppose
[15:18] (CGI654) Auf: re: Just: I agree wholeheartedly.
[15:18] (rond) you seemed like an american because you sounded stupid
[15:18] (JustinFra) aufklaren.. so parading someone on TV is savage?
[15:19] (pilgrim`) certainly
[15:19] (pilgrim`) look at Ophrah
[15:19] (CGI654) Auf seldom if ever sounds stupid.
[15:19] (Lupine) JustinFra: um, violate their rights under the Geneva Conventions
[15:19] (Yaakov) "Throwing stones at glass houses"?
[15:19] (JustinFra) is parading someone on tv more savage or less savage than waterboarding?
[15:19] (Aufk|aren) CGI654: Thank you, you're very kind.
[15:19] (CGI654) Justin, however..
[15:19] (CGI654) well, I could've said 'never', but wanted some wiggle room just in case ;)
[15:19] (Lupine) JustinFra: parading them on TV is a violation of the protections of the Geneva Convention
[15:19] (Yaakov) JustinFra: You are some special form of nitwit.
[15:19] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: Why are you still talking about waterboarding? This has *nothing* to do with waterboarding, or even America.
[15:19] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: we're talking about British troops.
[15:19] (JustinFra) lupine.. i'm not defending it.. iran are wrong to do so. they are going to use the poor marines as pawns.. thats certainly against the geneva convnetions
[15:20] (Lupine) JustinFra: you asked a question. I answered it.
[15:20] (syoung333) lol..suddenly the geneva conventions are worth following
[15:20] (CGI654) West bad East good. Justin dumb.
[15:20] (observer) how could someone defend iran's "kidnapping" actions? it boggles me
[15:20] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: Then why the equivocating? Why the need to make useless and irrelevant references to Americans, when it has nothing to do with issue at hand? Why the need to qualify your condemnation?
[15:20] (JustinFra) lupine.. what??? parading someone on tv is aganst the geneva convention but waterboarding is not???
[15:20] (observer) those UK soldiers are freaking hostages
[15:20] (Aufk|aren) syoung: I have never advocated doing anything but following the Geneva Conventions to the letter.
[15:21] (Lupine) JustinFra: if those being waterboard have not qualified for a certain protected status, yes. absolutely.
[15:21] (JustinFra) observer.. sure they are.. and iran is going to try ans wap them for some sort of politcal gain.. maybe the release of the iranian agents held by the US
[15:21] (observer) JustinFra: oh the ones that were in Iraq?
[15:21] (JustinFra) observer.. yes.. the ones that were in iraq at the invitation of part of the iraqi govt
[15:21] (observer) the ones supplying Al Sadr and other insurgents?
[15:21] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: That wont happen, and the Iranians know it.
[15:21] (Lupine) JustinFra: might I suggest you try reading the Geneva Conventions first?
[15:22] (JustinFra) observer.. al sadr's militia are part of the iraqi govt
[15:22] (tnzr) we violated the geneva conventions at abu grahib, according to rumsfeld
[15:22] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: We would never give into the demands of someone doing this sort of thing. It would just set a precedent for it to happen again and again.
[15:22] (Lupine) tnzr: have a quote for that claim?
[15:22] (WyldOcsar) the us army played really loud gun's and roses music to drive manuel noriega insane when he was hiding in a vatican embassy in panama city. Is there no limit to our cruelty?
[15:22] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: The only people who are stupid enough to believe that is even a possibility are the silly little Iranian apologists. The Iranians themselves aren't stupid - they know it will never happen.
[15:22] (rond) tnzr "No We" did not
[15:23] (tnzr) Lupine: not really.. but I do have rumsfeld on video saying that the geneva convention applies to the prisoners there.. and isnt torture forbidden according to the geneva convention?
[15:23] (JustinFra) maybe torture is ok if its applied by the US?
[15:23] (CGI654) not all methods of interrogation are torture.
[15:23] (Lupine) WyldOcsar: sure there is, we wouldn't use the Dixie Chicks
[15:23] (tnzr) rond ---^
[15:23] (Lupine) tnzr: you do understand that there are seperate sections of the geneva conventions?
[15:24] (Lupine) certain people quality for X protection, others qualify for Y protections.
[15:24] (WyldOcsar) there is a limit the dixie chicks would have been too much
[15:24] (tnzr) Lupine: I was not aware of that, no.
[15:24] (tnzr) although I consieder that pretty odd
[15:24] (tnzr) i wonder which part covers torture and on whom it is allowed
[15:24] (Yaakov) JustinFra: Why is the behavior of the US military relevant to the British captives?
[15:24] (Lupine) tnzr: why is it odd? there are obvious differences between the various types of pepole who might be siezed.
[15:24] (JustinFra) observer.. anyway.. i think its more likely the iranian agents in iraq were there as guests of SCIRI rather than al sadr
[15:24] (CGI654) proper soldiers with uniforms are one category, ununiformed guerilla types another.
[15:25] (tnzr) Lupine: I dunno, I thought it was an all-encompassing document.. I didnt realize there was a difference
[15:25] (ivy^) DEVORAH! :)
[15:25] (tnzr) Lupine: doesn't it have to do wtih human rights?
[15:25] (rond) you don't know but you have conclusions
[15:25] (JustinFra) yaakov.. because the US holds iranians and iran will try to bargain with the brits
[15:25] (rond) makes a lot of sense
[15:25] (Lupine) tnzr: the most obvious example is :non-combattant civilians. they qualify for the MOST proteciton under the GC
[15:25] (Yaakov) JustinFra: That isn't logical.
[15:26] (CGI654) Yaakov: neither is he, so what else?
[15:26] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: That's only if you accept that the Iranians honestly believe they can get the hostages back through this.
[15:26] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: Which is a nonsense.
[15:26] (JustinFra) yaakov.. its perfectly logical.. its not a legitimate excuse for holding innocent men as hostages, but its perfectly logical for the iranians
[15:26] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: This has nothing to do with the Americans, and your babble about waterboarding is just grasping for straws. The issue at hand is your unwillingness to wholeheartedly and without qualification condemn the Iranians.
[15:27] (Lupine) JustinFra: you are saying its perfectly logical for the Iranians to ignore teh geneva conventions?
[15:27] (michaelc) there's more than one system of logic.
[15:27] (JustinFra) lupine... they think they will get away with it. they are upping the stakes and they feel holding the hostages strengthens their hand
[15:27] (ivy^) true, michael, but what's the relevance of that here?
[15:27] (Yaakov) JustinFra: Perhaps I wasn't clear. Why do *you* find some logic in implying that somehow thebehavior of CIA interrogators is relevant to the hostages?
[15:28] (Lupine) JustinFra: so what you are saying, to the iranians, the end justifies what ever the means?
[15:28] (observer) JustinFra: sorry was afk, anyways, even if those iranian agents were guests, if they were known to harm our soldiers, they should be detained
[15:28] (ivy^) lupi, the iranians already seem to believe that - they don't need to be informed
[15:28] (Lupine) Yaakov: Now, I do find a certain "logic" in JustinFra. Justify any position which will make the USA/Britian look "bad"
[15:28] (JustinFra) yaakov.. i only brought it up to compare the "barbaric" treatment of the british marines against how the US has treated its prisoners. last time I looked the US and Uk were allies in iraq
[15:29] (Yaakov) JustinFra: Why is the CIA relevant to the UK?
[15:29] (Lupine) JustinFra: "the US"?
[15:29] (SweetLeaf) Iran seems to think they can do what they want and seem to be doing so
[15:29] (Lupine) every nation has their own criminals.. no arguement there.
[15:29] (JustinFra) observer.. what about the members of the iraqi govt who have helped harm US soldiers? u going to detain them all too?
[15:29] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: The UK is an entirely separate country. What Americans have done or not done is completely irrelevant to the question of how the Iranians are treating British sailors.
[15:29] (observer) JustinFra: if we need to, we should
[15:29] (JustinFra) yaakov.. sorry.. am I mistaken that the US and UK are allies in iraq?
[15:29] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: Why can't you accept that simple truth?
[15:29] (Lupine) JustinFra: were they caputured with clear uniforms and engaging in only legitment means of warfare?
[15:30] (JustinFra) observer.. its not a matter of "needing" its a matter of what makes a favourable outcome in iraq more likely
[15:30] (Yaakov) JustinFra: Why does that fact make the CIAs interrogration practices relevant to the hostages being held?
[15:30] (Lupine) that is the fundemental difference. Even if these soldiers were in Iranian waters. they clearly qualify under the GC as "protected POW status"
[15:30] (Yaakov) JustinFra: Ican
[15:30] (observer) JustinFra: no government official should be above the law
[15:31] (JustinFra) observer.. you think? the US is going to have to turn a blind eye to a lot of things if its going to find any partners in iraq
[15:31] (SweetLeaf) Iran gave the cord's to the brits and it was in Iraq waters hahah they soon changed it
[15:31] (Yaakov) JustinFra: I can't find a logical thread in your assertions. I *do* see a rhetorical value if you don't care about the hostages but *do* have an agenda concerning the CIA.
[15:32] (Yaakov) JustinFra: That is to say, you are a ghoul.
[15:32] (rond) a ghoul ??
[15:32] (JustinFra) yaakov.. maybe u missed the start of the discussion, i merely said that the iranians seemed to be treating the UK marines better than the US would be treating the iranians agents it held.
[15:32] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: Under the Law of the Sea, the only situation in which they can be arrested is if they are behaving in a hostile fashion. Otherwise they must simply be asked to leave. This sort of thing is conducted, by civilised nations, with coast and maritime officials - not gunboats. Iran has no problem respecting the Law of the Sea when it comes to Azerbaijani traders stray in to Iranian territory - they merely ask them to leave.
[15:32] (Lupine) Yaakov: It isn't even the CIA. It is about England/USA
[15:32] (rond) you can think of a more harsh word thant that can't you ??
[15:32] (rond) :)
[15:33] (Yaakov) Yes, he wants to use this as a soapbox and doesn't care about the people he is upsetting.
[15:33] (JustinFra) lol @ upsetting people
[15:33] (Yaakov) A ghoul eats the dead.
[15:33] (rond) ghoul means that ?
[15:33] (Lupine) Aufk|aren: I thought under CG they could be siezed as an enemy power within their own territory?
[15:33] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: Britain is not at war with Iran, they are not an enemy power.
[15:33] (tnzr) what does the GC mean by "laws and customs of war"
[15:34] * sHice is now known as sHice|
[15:34] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren has been very upset since this started. You choose to jerk him around so that you can repeatedly point out how bad the CIA is.
[15:34] (JustinFra) hmmm.. maybe.. with all the advantage of hindsight, invading Iraq was not such a great idea
[15:34] (Aufk|aren) Lupine: In this circumstance, the Law of the Sea provides for the nation whose waters are apparently being impined on to request that the trespassers leave. They can only be arrested if they behave in a hostile fashion or if they refuse to leave.
[15:34] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: You make me sound like a wimp!
[15:34] (Lupine) Yaakov: he may be putting his own peverse sexual fetish before the welfare of the UK
[15:34] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: Not at all.
[15:34] (JustinFra) yaakov.. sorry.. but aufkalren is nuts. i doubt my posts are going to make him any more or any less nuts
[15:35] (Aufk|aren) Yes, of course, I'm angry about the whole situation. I'm more angry that other British people, like JustinFra, seem to be completely disinterested in the welfare of our own soldiers and more interested in making excuses for the barbarians which are holding them hostage.
[15:35] (rond) lol
[15:35] (Lupine) JustinFra probably ca not wait till he watches 15 body bags being flow into England. In high definition, of course.
[15:35] (tnzr) iraq wasnt considered "occupied" was it?
[15:35] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: I'm nuts?
[15:35] (tnzr) when we first went in
[15:35] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: In what sense am I nuts?
[15:35] (tnzr) were they a 'recognized belligerent' ?
[15:35] (JustinFra) lupine... i am pretty confident that the UK marines will be returned home alive. i'd hate to be in their shoes, but iran let the last group of marines home unharmed
[15:35] (gopp) JustinFra define nuts
[15:36] (gopp) JustinFra define unharmed
[15:36] (Lupine) tnzr: Until still time as we turned over soverignty, yes.
[15:36] (gopp) JustinFra are you friends of iran
[15:36] (Yaakov) JustinFra: In fact, you are a mindless zealot willing to employ sophistry to make your rhetorical points. Truth is an a priori idea for you. You know the truth, now you just have to find the facts that prove it.
[15:36] (Lupine) JustinFra: ah, the truth of your displeasure now comes out. You are upset that they will be returned home alive.
[15:36] (JustinFra) gopp.. no waterboarding.. no broom handles stuck up their arses.. no dog bites.. no sexual humiliation.. that sort of thing
[15:36] (Yaakov) JustinFra: I am going to ignore you now because you aren't really interested in discourse and you are distatsteful.
[15:36] (gopp) JustinFra did bush order that treatment
[15:36] (gopp) did he
[15:37] (gopp) JustinFra are you a fucken antiamerican
[15:37] (gopp) JustinFra stfu you antiamerican
[15:37] (panini) JustinFra, are you aware that iran is not iraq?
[15:37] (gopp) you should be tried for treason
[15:37] (Aufk|aren) gopp: Calm down old boy! JustinFra is "pretty confident" the marines will be returned alive. Oh well - nothing to worry about then! I'm sure it's all just a big misunderstand, eh?
[15:37] (gopp) JustinFra get off my #channel you nut
[15:37] (tnzr) rond: so out of curiosity, if the GC states that prisoners of war are to be treated humanely, and rumsfeld is quoted on video as saying the prisoners in abu grahib were protected by the geneva convention, how is it wrong to conclude that we violated the GC when we tortured said prisoners?
[15:37] (JustinFra) lol.. saying I don't think the iranians will fuck the brit marins up the arse with broomhandles makes me antiamerican?
[15:37] (panini) and that iranian are not iraqis?
[15:37] (tnzr) gopp: easy, fella
[15:37] (tnzr) with the treason talk
[15:37] (panini) he’s just a dumb liberal
[15:37] (Yaakov) The ironic thing is that if JustinFra actually used rational discourse to make points, he might have something useful to say.
[15:37] (gopp) panini oh oh oh k
[15:38] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: They've already broken the Geneva Conventions. They've forced them give false confessions and write false statements. They've paraded them on TV. What more proof do you need?
[15:38] (gopp) JustinFra saying that bush and americna order brooms up people asses is
[15:38] (rond) tnzr you obviously do not understand the GC but yet you come to conclusions about it and the US. I do not do that
[15:38] (JustinFra) iran let the last group of marines home unharmed. there is a good chance they will do the same this time
[15:38] (JustinFra) gopp.. u seem to be having a problem reading my posts
[15:38] (gopp) JustinFra saying that bush and americna order brooms up people asses and blaming america for it is antiamerica
[15:38] (tnzr) rond: well the conclusion I came to is the one I just stated.. I understand enough about the GC to come to that conclusion
[15:38] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: And then all will be forgiven?
[15:38] (Yaakov) Aufk|aren: JustinFra isn't going to be convinced of anything by fact or logic. It is a waste of typing.
[15:38] (gopp) JustinFra did you not impile that
[15:39] (JustinFra) gopp.. nope.. i haven;t mentioned Bush all day
[15:39] (Aufk|aren) Yaakov: You're right, and I think any more bother about it will give me an ulcer. I'm going to get a glass of wine. :)
[15:39] (gopp) JustinFra you impiled rummy or dick order that
[15:39] (gopp) JustinFra impled
[15:39] (JustinFra) i haven;t bush, rummy or dick cheney all day
[15:39] (gopp) err impiled
[15:39] (gopp) err impiled??
[15:39] (gopp) JustinFra do you what impile
[15:39] (JustinFra) oops.. i haven't mentioned Bush, Rummy or Cheney all day
[15:39] (gopp) means
[15:39] (rond) I am not an expert on the GC either but I don't come to conclusions regarding it but I do know this. There were certain people who broke certain military laws in certain prisons in Iraq, and those people were tried and convicted
[15:39] (Yaakov) "imply"
[15:39] (rond) thus you need to consider the "We" Word
[15:40] (rond) or reconsider
[15:40] (gopp) impyl JustinFra
[15:40] (tnzr) rond: you & I didnt violate it. But in the eyes of the world, the US did.
[15:40] (Yaakov) "imply" "implied" "implies"
[15:40] (tnzr) rond: thats all I meant.
[15:40] (gopp) oh imply
[15:40] (Lupine) tnzr: You need to be _very_ careful about who you call as "Prisoner of War"
[15:40] (td) How come nobody mentions Rummy anymore
[15:40] (rond) I don't care what the eyes of the world are, its still not a we as you concluded
[15:40] (td) he cant possibly try to weasel his way into a good legacy
[15:40] (Lupine) tnzr: under the Geneva Convention, POW is a specific term for *SOME* people who are captured on the battle field.
[15:40] (gopp) td but he done nothing wrong
[15:40] (tnzr) Lupine: I know.. to be honest I didnt think they were covered.. I had a long talk with DS abou tthis. I realized they were when i heard rummy himself say it
[15:40] (Lupine) tnzr: there are other classifications.
[15:40] (JustinFra) gopp.. maybe u just automatically assume that any mention of fucking a prisoner up the arse with a broomhandle relates to Bush?
[15:41] (gopp) did I say bush
[15:41] (gopp) JustinFra I said america
[15:41] (tnzr) rond: i clarified my conclusion.
[15:41] (rond) Tnzr. What We did do is try and convict the the ones who did wrong
[15:41] (tnzr) and my conclusion was accurate imho
[15:41] (JustinFra) gopp.. go and read your own posts
[15:41] (Lupine) tnzr: the mistake rumsfeld made, IMHO.. is forgetting that most people are ignorant about the specific GC terminology
[15:41] (gopp) I didn't say bush
[15:41] (gopp) if I Did my mistake
[15:41] (Lupine) He should have clearly deliniated the difference
[15:41] (tnzr) rond: i dont disagree with that
[15:41] (gopp) I did say america dick and rummy
[15:41] (td) whats wrong with fucking people with a broomhandle, if those people have vital information that could save lives, you stick that broomhandle as far as it goes
[15:41] (JustinFra) gopp.. ok.. i accept your apology for what I'm sure, was an honest mistake
[15:41] (tnzr) td: then dont be surprised when it happens to our POWs
[15:42] (gopp) JustinFra np
[15:42] (td) the geneva conventions just arent hip enough
[15:42] (observer) iran would be stupid if they don't release them, this scenario will probably end up like the lebanon/israel/hezbollah situation
[15:42] (rond) breaking the GC and not doing something about it is one thing, breaking the GC and doing something about is completely different. I see my country "The US" having acted honorably
[15:42] (td) and they no longer need to be followed
[15:42] (gopp) they don't why
[15:42] (gopp) td
[15:43] (td) because the Crawford Conventions trump them
[15:43] (JustinFra) and for the record, i don't like Bush, i think he's incompetent, but i certainly don't think he would ever have approved the sexual abuse and torture of the prisoners in Abu Ghraib and Bagram
[15:43] (tnzr) rond: i would agree with that as well. But it is important to note that when comparing honor levels between different nations, nation x (probably) isnt going to care one way or the other if we punished our people who were responsible for breaking the convention. Especially when there are questions about where the orders came from to do that
[15:43] (JustinFra) observer.. did Hezbollah do that badly out of the lebanon situation?
[15:43] * Lupine chuckles at those so ignorant to say things like "The prisoners are being held without charge or trial... that's a violation of their rights!".. um, no. no it is not. In fact, the GC specifically *ALLOWS* you to hold people without charge or trial.
[15:44] (rond) tnzr war is hell
[15:44] (tnzr) rond: indeed
[15:44] (observer) JustinFra: i don't know
[15:44] (observer) do you?
[15:44] (rond) It seems you are quick to judge the US wrong on this matter
[15:44] (Lupine) tnzr: Yea.. i think terrorists beheading people started before one rogue US soldier took a plunger to a guys ass
[15:44] (tnzr) rond: i dont think it seems like that at all
[15:44] (rond) I do
[15:44] (JustinFra) observer.. it seems to me that Hizbollah gained a lot of strength in Lebanon after the way they fought against Israel.. a lot of shia died in south lebanon tho
[15:44] (tnzr) well i guess I am somewhat sorry that you feel that way.
[15:45] (rond) note lupines comment
[15:45] (td) Lupine is a democart
[15:45] (tnzr) Lupine: I find that irrelevant
[15:45] (rond) thats convienant
[15:45] (tnzr) wasnt it you asking me the other day if 2 wrongs make a right?
[15:45] (tnzr) rond: whats wrong with opposing torture?
[15:46] (rond) nothing but you concluded and big "We" before you got to that statement
[15:46] (rond) er "a" big "we"
[15:46] (td) Over 122 innocent people murdered in Baghdad today, I hope you people that support "the mission" are proud.
[15:47] (rond) that big "we" said it all for me
[15:47] (JustinFra) observer.. i think it was an important point you brought up tho, to an extent the israeli invasion of south lebanon was a proxy war against iran by the US and israel
[15:47] (observer) JustinFra: yep, i see that scenario happening again
[15:47] (Aufk|aren) JustinFra: You've got it completely the wrong way around.
[15:48] (JustinFra) observer... lets just remember that Hizbollah did surprisingly well
[15:48] (Aufk|aren) Hezbollah attacked Israel at Iran's direction.
[15:48] (JegaPRIME) Terrorism existed before any cruelties were inflicted by Americans on Arabs/Muslims. Therefore, we can do whatever want because it does't have any affect on terrorism.
[15:48] (JegaPRIME) What an argument.
[15:48] (e-Hernick) td: they were killed by evil sunni terrorists
[15:48] (e-Hernick) we must crush the sunni insurgency
[15:48] (e-Hernick) with tactical nukes
[15:48] (tnzr) rond: i said "we" referring to the US, in the eyes of the world.
[15:48] (Aufk|aren) It's part of Hezbollah's proxy war with Israel. Striking Hezbollah doesn't hurt Iran, but Hezbollah striking Israel helps Iran.
[15:48] (JustinFra) lol.. crush an insurgency with tactical nukes? lolol. only nuke part of baghdad?
[15:48] (Aufk|aren) Er, Iran's proxy war with Israel.
[15:49] (tnzr) rond: if a few iraqi soldiers tortured some american POWs, I doubt very seriously you woudlnt blame iraq as a whole.
[15:49] (e-Hernick) JustinFra: yes, we find insurgent's nests
[15:49] (e-Hernick) and boom
[15:49] (e-Hernick) it's no more evil
[15:49] (tnzr) i doubt you'd say something like "aww its ok, it was just a few bad apples"
[15:49] (td) the evil sunni terrorists!, the evil shia terrorists! the evil invaders! who will win! find out on the next Oprah
[15:49] (e-Hernick) no td, america is good
[15:49] (JustinFra) e-hernick.. ah.. good job the US has such great intel on insurgent nests then. i'm sure no civilians will be nuked by accident
[15:50] (td) you thought when I said evil invaders I meant America
[15:50] (JegaPRIME) Those British Marines are non-combatants. They're not *really* people.
[15:50] (e-Hernick) JustinFra: in order to save the village, we must first destroy the village
[15:50] (td) thats funny
[15:50] (JustinFra) e-hernick.. too right.. better dead than than sunni.. right?
[15:50] (e-Hernick) it is for the safety of the masses
[15:50] (e-Hernick) it will save many people in the end
[15:50] (e-Hernick) the ends justify the means
[15:51] (JustinFra) yes.. by killing everyone we will save lives in the long run
[15:51] (JegaPRIME) heh
[15:51] (e-Hernick) unless you want the troops to lose? then they would have died for nothing!
[15:51] (e-Hernick) and it would be democrats' fault, entirely
[15:51] (e-Hernick) that we lost
[15:51] (JegaPRIME) The best way to honor the deaths of 3000 young people is to have another 3000 people die.
[15:51] (JegaPRIME) That much is clear.
[15:51] (observer) i just see this hostage taking as a pretext to war, just like when that shalit guy was taken by hezbollah, things are only going to get worse
[15:51] (e-Hernick) the loss is their fault 100% because if we had stayed only a bit longer we would have won for sure
[15:51] (JegaPRIME) The question is, Just HOW should we kill the next 3000?
[15:51] (JegaPRIME) I vote for lion attacks.
[15:51] (JegaPRIME) And being sat upon by elephants.
[15:52] (michaelc) a perfect formal international policy is impossible. screw the international; in with the multinational.
[15:52] (JustinFra) observer.. well.. they could get much worse.. once both sides start to escalate its hard to take a step back
[15:53] (td) I'm just glad we are fighting the terrorists there instead of here
[15:53] (td) could have been messy
[15:53] (JegaPRIME) Hey, the UN said it's not ok for Iran to take those British.
[15:53] (td) but thanks to George Bush
[15:53] (JegaPRIME) And, man, it's important to do what the UN says. Always.
[15:53] (td) we're good to go
[15:53] (Aufk|aren) JegaPRIME: This UN "statement" is a sham.
[15:53] (Aufk|aren) The Russians fucked us over.
[15:53] (td) oh now its the russians
[15:53] (Aufk|aren) They refused to support any statement which would have supported the British contention that they were in Iraqi territory.
[15:53] (Aufk|aren) Or even call for their immediate release.
[15:53] (td) well thats good
[15:54] (JustinFra) the russians are part of the vast liberal plot to lose the war in iraq
[15:54] (tnzr) theres a white mid-80s nissan sedan with a big sky-blue "UN" painted on the doors always parked in front of this house in my neighborhood
[15:54] (td) they dont believe Blair either
[15:54] (Aufk|aren) It was Russia, Congo and Qatar.
[15:54] (Aufk|aren) td: They believe the British, they aren't idiots. They're just more interested in playing buddy with Iran.
[15:54] (td) why
[15:54] (Aufk|aren) Why do you think?
[15:54] (Aufk|aren) Money.
[15:54] (rond) they need nuke money
[15:54] (td) if they were interested in playing buddy buddy they would finish the fucking reactor
[15:54] (td) at buhsher
[15:55] (Aufk|aren) td: They aren't finishing the reactor beacuse the Iranians aren't paying up.
[15:55] (Aufk|aren) td: It all comes down to money for the Russians.
[15:55] (rond) its alwyas difficult to live with needy friends
[15:55] (Aufk|aren) They don't care about the situation itself.
[15:55] (td) so if the iranians arent giving them money
[15:55] (td) what good is it to be buddy buddy with them
[15:55] (JegaPRIME) We want a peaceful world. When nations flagrantly violate UN policy and take unilateral action it destabalizes the world.
[15:55] (JustinFra) the russians need more money to buy english football teams, they will hold out for every penny they can get from Iran
[15:55] (Aufk|aren) td: Don't be silly. Iran will get around to giving them the money for the reactor eventually. The Russians don't want to lose their financial relationship with them.
[15:55] (JegaPRIME) That's why I support and Iranian invasion of America.
[15:56] (td) I hope those russian AA missiles are as good as they advertised
[15:56] (JegaPRIME) But I'm not for the killing of ALL Americans. Heavens no!
[15:56] (JegaPRIME) That'd be *evil*. I just want to kill SOME Americans.
[15:56] (JegaPRIME) Maybe 400k.
[15:56] (JegaPRIME) That's a nice number.
[15:56] (JustinFra) lol this room can get quite funny when it has a few non-bush-apologists in it
[15:57] (td) they are all having dinner
[15:57] (td) long dinners
[15:57] (JegaPRIME) Yeah, TD, don't get silly.
[15:57] (JegaPRIME) You big silly.
[15:58] (Yaakov) JegaPRIME: Would you volunteer to be among the first wave of people to be killed?
[15:58] (td) anything to help out
[15:58] (JegaPRIME) Dying for your country is honorable.
[15:58] (JegaPRIME) Absolutely.
[15:58] (JegaPRIME) Take my sister, too.
[15:58] (td) i'd use her as a human sheild
[15:58] (tnzr) I gotta say.. it seems like living in a war zone for years is really living
[15:59] (JegaPRIME) I just want it to be known that I'm dying for my secular government.
[15:59] (td) well the Iraqi people sure like it
[15:59] (JegaPRIME) Dying for religious ideals is just wacky, man.
[15:59] (Patr) I don't think living under the thumb of a dictator is any better.
[16:00] (JustinFra) hmm... so the iranians invade, we all volunteer to be the first to die.. and some damned iranian argues that they haven't killed 600,000 or so.. that figure comes from discredited cluster sampling.. geesh. that would be anoying. a bit like dying in vain, in fact
[16:00] (JegaPRIME) I'm pretty comfortable with sacrificing kids for a pointless war. I mean, they like VOLUNTEERED. Therefore, they lose all value as a human being.
[16:00] (pilgrim`) I think dying for your country is fine. Please do, and I will take your country
[16:00] (tnzr) i think we need to be invaded, for the sake of excitement. this shit is boooooriiing
[16:00] (td) you are already invaded
[16:00] (td) with armchair warriors
[16:00] (td) the most vicious kind
[16:00] (tnzr) yep
[16:01] (JegaPRIME) Only Americans experience grief when their loved ones die.
[16:01] (tnzr) but im not allowed to shoot at them.
[16:01] (td) they'll go to war with anyone
[16:01] (JegaPRIME) I'm not even really sure if brown people can love one another.
[16:01] (td) rawr lets bomb Iran
[16:01] (td) lets Bomb Russia too
[16:01] (JegaPRIME) Yes, talking is pointless.
[16:01] (JegaPRIME) And thinking, too.
[16:01] (td) whoelse can we bomb
[16:02] (JegaPRIME) Talking, discussion, writings, and books never influenced anything.
[16:02] (astrodog) France.
[16:02] (td) FRANCE
[16:02] (JegaPRIME) People just do everything spur of the moment.
[16:02] (tnzr) ?????canada?????
[16:02] (td) 100MT nuke on Paris, to wipe out any extremists
[16:02] (td) i hope theres no collateral damage
[16:02] (tnzr) JegaPRIME: dont knock it, thats how you were conceived.
[16:02] (JegaPRIME) I don't knock it.
[16:03] (JegaPRIME) I think we should all go back to subustince farming.
[16:03] (JegaPRIME) That is romantic.
[16:03] (td) sounds good
[16:03] (tnzr) JegaPRIME: oh I meant that your dad was WEARING spurs at that precise moment
[16:03] (JegaPRIME) It's romantic to die at 25.
[16:03] (td) How about steel ovens in our backyards
[16:03] (td) we can all make steel
[16:03] (JegaPRIME) heh
[16:04] (JegaPRIME) Division of labor is for fags.
[16:04] (tnzr) well after the ice caps melt we can all pull a kevin costner and evolve gills & drink our own piss
[16:04] (tnzr) hows that dount
[16:04] (tnzr) sound*
[16:04] (JegaPRIME) There's no possible way Earth can deal with change.
[16:04] (JustinFra) its easier to drink your own piss than to evolve gills
[16:04] (WyldOcsar) how to make a smoker from a garbage can: http://www.cruftbox.com/cruft/docs/elecsmoker.html
[16:04] (JegaPRIME) The *exact* current status of the world is exactly how NATURE meant it to be.
[16:04] (td) its how GOD meant it to be
[16:04] (td) you psycho
[16:04] (tnzr) JegaPRIME: but..but.. we are above nature?
[16:05] (tnzr) we punch holes in the ionosphere with giant radio antennas
[16:05] (tnzr) take that, nature
[16:05] (JegaPRIME) I wonder what the next stage of civilization could be.
[16:06] (JegaPRIME) I tihnk it will be anarcho-capitalism.
[16:06] (td) the next stage is suicidism
[16:06] (rond) there is a good video on the net that talks about the 4 stages of civilization
[16:06] (td) sorry
[16:06] (rond) we are at stge 0\
[16:06] (pilgrim`) no
[16:06] (JegaPRIME) I think as technology continues to develop we will shift away from needing large corporations to pool the resources of individuals.
[16:06] (pilgrim`) it ould be nice, but no
[16:06] (rond) we can only get our energy from out planet
[16:06] (JegaPRIME) We are closer to stage 1 in the Chardawhatever scale.
[16:07] (pilgrim`) JegaPRIME ever read L Niel Smith: The Probability Broach?
[16:07] (JegaPRIME) About .7 or .8, if I remember corectly.
[16:07] (rond) stage 2 is ability to get all of our energy from the sun
[16:07] (JegaPRIME) I haven't, Pilgrim.
[16:07] (JegaPRIME) What's it about.
[16:07] (pilgrim`) find it
[16:07] (rond) stage 3 is from our solar system
[16:07] (pilgrim`) you will like it
[16:07] (td) we only have about 8 years left
[16:07] (rond) er galaxy
[16:07] (td) sorry guys
[16:07] (rond) stage for from anywhere in the universe
[16:07] (Lupine) there goes firefox.. chucking down 1GB ram again
[16:07] (rond) er 4
[16:07] (pilgrim`) its about 320 pages ;)
[16:07] (JegaPRIME) TD, have you ever studied the history of Christian eschatology?
[16:07] (pilgrim`) the plot is a alt universe of anarcho capitalists
[16:08] (td) No i havent studied any part of christianity
[16:08] (JegaPRIME) Basically, the end times have only been about 25 years away for 2000 years.
[16:08] (pilgrim`) Jega yes
[16:08] (CGI654) rb
[16:08] (pilgrim`) the Eshiton
[16:08] (pilgrim`) I am familiar
[16:08] (JegaPRIME) Religion is a child's belief. I really mean it. I don't mean to be insulting.
[16:08] (td) Jesus is coming back 7/7/07
[16:08] (pilgrim`) I like to entertain my inner fetus
[16:09] (cyberfr0g) if jesus comes back i'll be sure to put one between his eyes
[16:09] (JustinFra) there is nothing childish about belief in God, Allah, Krishna, Santa Claus....
[16:09] (pilgrim`) Jesys Is cumming?
[16:09] (tnzr) rofl
[16:09] (tnzr) pilgrim`; i like how you misspelled his name to avoid the wrath
[16:09] (JegaPRIME) The current views of liberal government are based on the fragility of the individual. Increased education and technology might lead to the futher empowering of the individual and a decrease in the need for government.
[16:09] (pilgrim`) tnzr thank Mog!
[16:10] (cyberfr0g) the ideas brought forth by the fictional character of jesus are profound and we should all learn very very important moral lessons of caring for one another
[16:10] (cyberfr0g) nothing more
[16:10] (DrunkOnNO) ahhh
[16:10] (JegaPRIME) Jesus was the first human being to ever think about caring about anybody else.
[16:10] (pilgrim`) you do know that when they found that tomb there were traces of the embalming chemicals used? among the aelos Myrrh and such they found a special yeast
[16:10] (Patr) Some of the greatest minds in history were very religious, I would think it ridiculous to call them childish.
[16:10] (pilgrim`) that is why:
[16:11] (pilgrim`) On the Thrid Day....he Rose
[16:11] (JegaPRIME) Before Jesus people just walked around beating others with sticks.
[16:11] (DrunkOnNO) I still beat people with sticks...
[16:11] (pilgrim`) and its I think the origins of Yeaster
[16:11] (JegaPRIME) Patr, that doesn't mean anything to me.
[16:12] (JegaPRIME) Historically, religion and education were strongly tied.
[16:12] (tnzr) or lack thereof
[16:12] (Patr) So Descartes had the mind of a child?
[16:12] (gopp) DrunkOnNO you do why
[16:12] (JegaPRIME) Well.
[16:12] (Patr) Or Kierkegaard for that matter?
[16:12] (tnzr) Kierkegaard was religious?
[16:12] (Patr) Yes.
[16:13] (pilgrim`) We place no reliance
[16:13] (pilgrim`) On virgin or pigeon
[16:13] (pilgrim`) Our method is science
[16:13] (pilgrim`) Our aim is Religion.
[16:13] (pilgrim`) -Aleister Crowley
[16:13] (Patr) He was a Christian existentialist.
[16:13] (JegaPRIME) I believe it was Descartes that created the argument that you should believe in God because it is in your own best interest to do so.
[16:13] (JegaPRIME) Oh, wait,
[16:13] (JegaPRIME) Pascal
[16:13] (Patr) I think that was Pascal.
[16:13] (pilgrim`) Jega sum ergo cogito
[16:13] (Patr) Yes.
[16:13] (JegaPRIME) Pascal is supposed to be a GENIUS
[16:13] (JegaPRIME) His wager is pathetic
[16:13] (gopp) is any here able to access
[16:13] (JegaPRIME) 5 minutes of research destroy it
[16:13] (gopp) dailymotion.com
[16:13] (pilgrim`) Jega sorry I am always getting Descartes before de Horse
[16:13] (gopp) http://www.dailymotion.com/
[16:13] (gopp) is this site down for any one here
[16:13] (tnzr) I didnt realize that.
[16:13] (JegaPRIME) I take genius as genius comes
[16:13] (tnzr) I thought it was the opposite
[16:14] (JegaPRIME) If some cartoon says something profound then I integrate it into my worldview alongside the teachigns of Aristotle
[16:14] (tnzr) gopp: get back to work
[16:14] (gopp) tnzr oh
[16:14] (pilgrim`) no GOP
[16:14] (JegaPRIME) If Descartes says something profound it doesn't make his religious beliefs non-childish
[16:14] (gopp) darn
[16:14] (gopp) a great site went down
[16:14] (gopp) ahh pilgrim` thanks
[16:14] (pilgrim`) Jega obviously you have not read the ultiamte holy book of all time
[16:15] (JegaPRIME) Which oen?
[16:15] (pilgrim`) read....drum roll:
[16:15] (pilgrim`) Principia Discordia
[16:15] (tnzr) I dont think its childish to be religious, but I think a lot of it stems from lack of knowledge regarding science, the earth, nature, etc.
[16:15] (gopp) pilgrim` did you see some hacked the apple tv os to work on a mac book pro
[16:15] (gopp) pilgrim` did you see that
[16:15] (JegaPRIME) Hey, I'm spiritual.
[16:15] (pilgrim`) -or how I found goddess and what I ddi to her after I found her
[16:15] (JegaPRIME) I'm far more spiritual than most religious people I know.
[16:15] (tnzr) at least in the old days. when man didnt understand something, he attributed it to God
[16:15] (JegaPRIME) Looking for deep meaning and connection is a beautiful thing. Believing in some being who interacrts with ant-humans is tarded
[16:16] (pilgrim`) gopp yeah, someone posted the dmg of the opsys; it was down before I could grab it
[16:16] (Lupine) god damn it. if I ever find the programmer of Firefox2, that keeps overwriting my configuration of dumpprep.exe.. i'm going to pound his balls with a jack hammer.
[16:16] (tnzr) Lupine: whats dumpprep.exe?
[16:16] (Lupine) fucking calling home software
[16:16] (tnzr) JegaPRIME: agreed
[16:16] (tnzr) Lupine: it ships with firefox?
[16:16] (pilgrim`) Lupine you wrote a call home?
[16:16] (pilgrim`) or IT is.
[16:16] (WyldOcsar) stephen hawking has a chapter in a brief history of time dealing with religion and god. our best and brightest dont have all the answers still.
[16:17] (tnzr) or is that the little thing that pops up to report data when firefox crashes?
[16:17] (Lupine) tnzr: in "theory" when an application in windows locks up, it can run an application to collect the details of the crash and report it to the application's publisher
[16:17] (tnzr) ohhh
[16:17] (Lupine) i KEEP turning it off for Firefox.. but damn it, it keeps turning it back on.
[16:17] (JegaPRIME) There's no reason whatsoever to think there is a god who interacts with human beings
[16:17] (tnzr) Lupine: so its the microsoft thing
[16:17] (JegaPRIME) I can't think of one piece of evidence
[16:17] (st0ner) im agnostic
[16:17] (pilgrim`) wait...ain't that the M$ error report thing?
[16:17] (st0ner) me either JegaPrime
[16:17] (Lupine) tnzr: No, the problem is FF
[16:17] (st0ner) god wont show himself, he dosnt exist, or dont care.
[16:17] (Lupine) fucking programmer on FF put in in the program to turn it on for itself. EACH AND EVERY FUCING TIME
[16:17] (tnzr) Lupine: but dumpprep.exe is a MS program not FF right? but FF is overwriting the config
[16:18] (rond) jegaprime your not looking
[16:18] (Lupine) tnzr: yes. FF is blatantly ignoring what I am instructing it to do: i.e. DO NOT CALL HOME
[16:18] (rond) or you don't want to find it in the first place
[16:18] (pilgrim`) ah
[16:18] (pilgrim`) thought so
[16:18] (JegaPRIME) What have you found, rond
[16:18] (astrodog) Uh.
[16:18] (JegaPRIME) I have looked far more than most religious people
[16:18] (astrodog) Lup: dumprep is MS's call home..
[16:18] (astrodog) Not FFs.
[16:18] (JegaPRIME) religious peopel are notorioius for not looking *at all*
[16:18] (rond) doesn't soound like it
[16:18] (JegaPRIME) Oh, mommy is Catholic? I'm Catholic too!
[16:18] (pilgrim`) Lupien simple solution: tell your firewall to not allow FF access to the Net ;)
[16:18] (Lupine) astrodog: I know it. but it is Firefox programmers hwo KEEP TURNING IT ON for firefox
[16:18] (JegaPRIME) Atheists in America are constantly attacked
[16:18] (JegaPRIME) Constantly being attacked makes you hard
[16:19] (JegaPRIME) In flesh or spirit
[16:19] (Patr) Oh yeah, we always hear about the Atheist lynchings.
[16:19] (Lupine) pilgrim`: oh, THAT is not the problem. When FF pukes and gulps down 1GB of ram.. dumpprep takes a good 5 minutes solid
[16:19] (JegaPRIME) Attacked, challenged, ridiculed
[16:19] (WyldOcsar) there is a setting in firefox to check for new updates every time you start the program, but if you dont like it you can turn that off
[16:19] (pilgrim`) Lupine yeah I hate that. I have seen that too. the memgobble
[16:19] (Patr) Religious people are ridiculed all the time, too.
[16:19] (st0ner) JegaPrime: yeah lol, momy believes it so so do i! i have the same faith as suicide bomber jihadists but thats ok :D
[16:19] (Patr) Ever heard of Richard Dawkins?
[16:19] (Lupine) WyldOcsar: totally different issue
[16:19] (JegaPRIME) Yes, it is extremely common
[16:19] (st0ner) :P
[16:19] (gopp) pilgrim` oh is the .dmg any where else
[16:19] (JegaPRIME) Please tell me the last time you saw atheism represented as a reasonable belief on television
[16:19] (JegaPRIME) It is extemely rare
[16:20] (pilgrim`) gopp if you see it let me know
[16:20] (gopp) pilgrim` the .dmg and patch for mac book pro is out
[16:20] (Lupine) pilgrim`: it should actually be a federal crime, to intentionally run spy-ware when told NOT to.
[16:20] (gopp) yea pilgrim` sure
[16:20] (JegaPRIME) People should be executed for fucking with other people's computers
[16:20] (pilgrim`) Lupine just a hanging offense. that would satisfy me ;)
[16:20] (WyldOcsar) I have been using firefox since it was called phoenix and have never seen it call home.
[16:20] (JegaPRIME) That's the only way they're going to learn
[16:20] (pilgrim`) Wyld thats not what he is saying
[16:21] (JegaPRIME) Example
[16:21] (st0ner) JegaPrime: or people should patch their computers
[16:21] (pilgrim`) it is interacting with dumpprep.exe and setting the "call home to M$ flag
[16:21] (st0ner) and not be so fucking dumb
[16:21] (JegaPRIME) In one class in highschool it came up that I was atheist
[16:21] (gopp) pilgrim` you must watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTgC_dmp8vE
[16:21] (gopp) pilgrim` what that do
[16:21] (JegaPRIME) About 6 people immediately told me hwo arrogant I was
[16:21] (JegaPRIME) You think you're smarter than god!
[16:21] (tnzr) Lupine: does it reconfigure dumpprep.exe when you launch FF? or when it crashes?
[16:21] (st0ner) hahahahhahaha
[16:21] (JegaPRIME) I have to now explain my beliefs
[16:21] (JegaPRIME) What if I said I believe in Jesus?
[16:21] (JegaPRIME) Oh, that's nice
[16:21] (JegaPRIME) No challenges make you soft
[16:21] (pilgrim`) Jega not smartter, just talelr, and with less body oder
[16:21] (gopp) firefox never called home
[16:21] (JegaPRIME) Christians are typically very soft in mind
[16:21] (CometBaby) not anymore .. now if you believe in Jesus you are mocked
[16:22] (st0ner) ask a christian to explain his faith: i believe because i have faith!
[16:22] (Lupine) WyldOcsar: yea well, YOU try turning it off. I can't. It keeps overwriting my changes.
[16:22] (st0ner) lol
[16:22] (Lupine) tnzr: each time it launches.
[16:22] (JegaPRIME) About 85% of americans still label themselves as christian
[16:22] (st0ner) they are all hipocrits
[16:22] (JegaPRIME) So, I don't usually worry TOO much
[16:22] (CometBaby) Jega .. and?
[16:22] (Patr) The bulk of any demographic is "soft in mind".
[16:22] (Patr) I really doubt all non-religious people are high-class intellectuals.
[16:22] (JegaPRIME) Oh, and I think 100% of our national leaders describe themselves as Christians
[16:22] (JegaPRIME) Christians'll be alright
[16:22] (gopp) wtf is dumpprep.exe
[16:22] (CometBaby) st0ner .. that is what faith is. You don't need logic, or evidence, or proof .. you believe due to faith.
[16:23] (CometBaby) A lot like the envirowackos
[16:23] (pilgrim`) Lupine XP or Vista?
[16:23] (JegaPRIME) Comet, why have faith?
[16:23] (st0ner) faith is fucking wack
[16:23] (tnzr) Lupine: FF 2.0.0.3? Also where do you disable dumppreP? i did it in the properties of My Computer and it stays off when I launch FF (in XP)
[16:23] (JegaPRIME) I have faith that god doeesn't exist
[16:23] (JegaPRIME) Why is your faith superior?
[16:23] (st0ner) i could have faith in suicide bombing making me go to heaven
[16:23] (st0ner) no different than christianity
[16:23] (st0ner) no facts backing it up
[16:23] (st0ner) no god telling you directly
[16:23] (pilgrim`) gopp its a app that reports to MS when a program faisl, like the Let Apple know when things crap on OS X
[16:23] (st0ner) therefore god is not real, or dosnt care
[16:23] (CometBaby) Jega .. I am not saying you need to have it. I am defining it for st0ner who doesn't seem to realize that there is such a thing and that it is legitimate.
[16:23] (JegaPRIME) It is not legitimate
[16:23] (observer) who is claiming their faith is superior?
[16:23] (WyldOcsar) If I was having any problems with ff triggering an ms dumpprep I would uninstall ff and download it again and reinstall.
[16:23] (JegaPRIME) But it does exist
[16:23] (st0ner) im weak agnostic
[16:23] (KoBushi) JegaPRIME that's okay, I was beaten in school for saying I didn't belive the bible stories; then during the ensuing court case people drove by my house with guns and left death threats on the answering machine
[16:24] (tnzr) JegaPRIME: some people think God is the guy playing with ant-humans. Others think its just a concept, referring to the Universe and all that is bigger than the universe, fate, etc
[16:24] (CometBaby) Jega of course it is.
[16:24] (gopp) pilgrim` http://torrents.thepiratebay.org/3649219/AppleTV_OSBOOT_Partition_Image.3649219.TPB.torrent
[16:24] (tnzr) KoBushi: seriously? Jeez
[16:24] (KoBushi) But not all Christians are that way
[16:24] * pilgrim` is a devout pagan and his faith is strong thank GOddess
[16:24] (CometBaby) The problem you have is that you do not respect their right to have faith.
[16:24] (panini) KoBushi, wtf?
[16:24] (st0ner) i wont believe in god unless its personally shows himself to me
[16:24] (JegaPRIME) I do respect that right
[16:24] (st0ner) no other way
[16:24] (JegaPRIME) I don't respect faith
[16:24] (tnzr) I dont respect their faith making its way into our laws
[16:24] (observer) who is claiming their faith is superior?
[16:24] (pilgrim`) Goddess showed herself to me. and MAN what a sight it was!
[16:24] (JegaPRIME) As a secular, libertarian, atheist I don't believe in government outlawing bheavior I disagree with
[16:24] (panini) before I believe in god, he has to grant me 3 wishes first
[16:24] (JegaPRIME) That's the difference between me and a lot of Christians
[16:25] (tnzr) also when their faith makes its way into the world political arena (wars)
[16:25] (CometBaby) jega .. no you don't respect it. You deny that it is legitimate
[16:25] (pilgrim`) certainly got MY attention...as it were...
[16:25] (JegaPRIME) Their belief that their FAITH comes from something higher than humans makes them ok with putting suffering in human beings
[16:25] (CometBaby) Jega .. just one of them
[16:25] (KoBushi) tnzr panini, yes seriously... and I agree... wtf? :)
[16:25] (JegaPRIME) That is why faith is wrong
[16:25] (thx1138^) i like what bill maher pointed out: only two of the ten commandments are actual laws.
[16:25] (panini) pilgrim`, she flashed you??
[16:25] (st0ner) panini: same :P
[16:25] (JegaPRIME) It displaces human being as the pinnacle of ethical consideration
[16:25] (tnzr) KoBushi: where was that? what city/state?
[16:25] (CometBaby) jega it is not wrong. It is a matter of personal choice
[16:25] (KoBushi) tnzr Carter County, TN
[16:25] (tnzr) KoBushi: thats shocking
[16:25] (JegaPRIME) When you displace humans fromt he top, in time, people will fly planes into buildings
[16:25] (pilgrim`) Panini we did a Great Rite. I said I am religous.... (look it up)
[16:25] (JegaPRIME) comet, you're not saying anything
[16:25] (CometBaby) people choose to believe .. that is their right .. and you don't have to agree with it .. but you have to respect their right to their own opinion
[16:25] (KoBushi) ~1988-1989
[16:25] (JegaPRIME) people can do whatever they want
[16:25] (JegaPRIME) I got that
[16:26] (panini) pilgrim`, lol ;)
[16:26] (JegaPRIME) I'm saying it's dumb
[16:26] (JegaPRIME) And here's why
[16:26] (CometBaby) Jega why can't you accept the fact that they have that right?
[16:26] (thx1138^) JegaPRIME exactly.
[16:26] (tnzr) CometBaby: what if they legislate that faith into laws.. at that point I can stop respecting it and start resisting it
[16:26] (JegaPRIME) Comet
[16:26] (CometBaby) tnzr nobody is doing that
[16:26] (CometBaby) so why pretend that they are?
[16:26] (JegaPRIME) You're not listening
[16:26] (observer) JegaPRIME: so you're saying your opinion is SUPERIOR? contradiction much?
[16:26] (JegaPRIME) I respect their right
[16:26] (tnzr) CometBaby: then why cant I buy beer on sundays before noon??!
[16:26] (JegaPRIME) I don't respect their belief
[16:26] (pilgrim`) "Reminds me of the time the preacher's daughter took me up the steeple to show me the holy ghost. Hallaleuja!"
[16:26] (CometBaby) tnzr you can here
[16:26] (CometBaby) move
[16:26] (st0ner) i cannot respect people who have faith for no reason
[16:26] (thx1138^) JegaPRIME although i would say, the people who flew into buildings last time did so because of our relative LACK of religious laws.
[16:26] (tnzr) CometBaby: im coming over.
[16:26] (st0ner) its impossible for me
[16:26] (rond) It wasn't the athiest who wrote the document regarding unalienable rights
[16:27] (KoBushi) st0ner ... that is the definition of faith
[16:27] (JegaPRIME) Observer, what I'm saying is that there are many conflicting ideas and man has developed various ways of testing different ideas against one another
[16:27] (JegaPRIME) some of these approaches are observation and logic
[16:27] (st0ner) faith only brought bad things to this world
[16:27] (KoBushi) if there is a REASON, then it isn't faith
[16:27] (panini) rond he could have
[16:27] (st0ner) suicide bombing, holy wars
[16:27] (observer) JegaPRIME: you said those of faith are DUMB
[16:27] (pilgrim`) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9136575504838642038&hl=en
[16:27] (gopp) pilgrim` this is a better link
[16:27] (JegaPRIME) I think we are all clear on what faith is
[16:27] (thx1138^) KoBushi more like the definition of blind faith.
[16:27] (CometBaby) st0ner you cannot respect anyone with a different opinon then. You have no tollerance. That is quite fascist of you
[16:27] (JegaPRIME) Faith is dumb.
[16:27] (JegaPRIME) That's my thesis.
[16:27] (JegaPRIME) You can have faith. I won't kill you. But you're dumb for having it.
[16:27] (st0ner) CometBaby: i respect people who are not extreme
[16:27] (CometBaby) Jega .. you prove nothing. You just spout personal opinion.
[16:27] (observer) JegaPRIME: so your belief is SUPERIOR?
[16:27] (JegaPRIME) comet
[16:27] (gopp) st0ner do you repsect other liberal point of view
[16:27] (CometBaby) st0ner then you do not respect yourself
[16:27] (WyldOcsar) can there be religion without faith?
[16:28] (CometBaby) you are extreme
[16:28] (JegaPRIME) everything you say is also 'personal opinion'
[16:28] (KoBushi) thx1138^ no, blind faith is redundant
[16:28] (thx1138^) KoBushi if I drop a ball 10 times and it hits the ground every time, I have pretty good reason to have faith that it will do the same the 11th time.
[16:28] (JegaPRIME) Telling somebody what they say is personal opinion is saying nothing
[16:28] (observer) JegaPRIME: stop being a fucking hypocrite
[16:28] (st0ner) i cannot respect faith for no reason
[16:28] (KoBushi) thx1138^ that isn't faith
[16:28] (st0ner) its impossible
[16:28] (st0ner) lol
[16:28] (gopp) pilgrim` lol
[16:28] (KoBushi) thx1138^ that's reason by historical evidence
[16:28] (CometBaby) If you have no tollerance for the right of others to have a different opinion then you disrespect yourself .. you are extreme.
[16:28] (st0ner) i have prayed for at least 6 years for god to show himself to me
[16:28] (st0ner) and nothing
[16:28] (JegaPRIME) Comet
[16:28] (st0ner) so see where im coming from
[16:28] (JegaPRIME) You are not listening
[16:28] (tnzr) i dont mind religion as a vehicle to get a society on the same page for the progress of the society/race/what have you, but unfortunately that never works, because of conflicting faiths
[16:28] (thx1138^) KoBushi its reason by induction. And it can be considered educated faith.
[16:28] (WyldOcsar) I have talked to devoutly religious people who say their beliefs are based on what they see.
[16:28] (JegaPRIME) Respecting foolish beliefs is not somethign to be valued
[16:29] (KoBushi) thx1138^ no, not really
[16:29] (CometBaby) st0ner .. which proves nothing.
[16:29] (JegaPRIME) It should be judged, and judged harshly
[16:29] (KoBushi) thx1138^ faith is belif in something for which there is insufficient evidence
[16:29] (KoBushi) (or no evidence, which would be insufficient)
[16:29] (tnzr) st0ner: your doubt is getting in the way. :)
[16:29] (gopp) pilgrim` haaha
[16:29] (st0ner) i dont doubt god exists
[16:29] (JegaPRIME) Oh, you have faitht he world is fla?
[16:29] (st0ner) im agnostic
[16:29] (st0ner) i just dont believe he cares
[16:29] * newnick1 is now known as maple-tec
[16:29] (tnzr) st0ner: i was just being sarcastic, don't mind me
[16:29] (JegaPRIME) I respect that. It's RESPECTFUL to belive the world is flat. I won't judge you!
[16:29] (JegaPRIME) Judging is BAD.
[16:29] (CometBaby) JegaPRIME devoiced for lameness
[16:29] (CryHavoc) the world is Florida? :)
[16:29] (panini) i’m a gnostic
[16:30] (thx1138^) KoBushi so given the fallacy of reason by induction, what is your standard for sufficient evidence?
[16:30] (tnzr) ???
[16:30] (KoBushi) thx1138^ that doesn't it's self invalidate faith
[16:30] (CryHavoc) panini is a dinner entree
[16:30] (CryHavoc) hey CB....
[16:30] (WyldOcsar) a persons belief or non belief in god should be personal unless you are out to convert people one way or the other.
[16:30] (CometBaby) jegaprime .. when you can tollerate another opinion get back to me
[16:30] (CryHavoc) they did not pack the buddhas well....and Kwan Yin is broken
[16:30] (CometBaby) hi cry
[16:30] (TheTailor) And get rid of those caps!
[16:31] (CometBaby) I have to leave .. will be back in an hour or so
[16:31] (TheTailor) :-)
[16:31] (ivy^) few things can be proved absolutely, mostly we just rely on rules of thumb that have worked in the past
[16:31] (st0ner) my parents seem to want to force me into christianity, but i know not all christians are like that, its just it makes me very worked up
[16:31] (CometBaby) if anyone wants to re-voice jegaprime go ahead
[16:31] (st0ner) thats why im always so angry lol
[16:31] (CryHavoc) ivy...or if not..flip a coin..
[16:31] (tnzr) someone revoice him
[16:31] (TheTailor) Why would we want to do that
[16:31] (CryHavoc) Heads I win Tails you lose
[16:31] (TheTailor) Hell no
[16:31] (CryHavoc) nahh
[16:31] (ivy^) on some issues, a coin works quite well, arvach :)
[16:31] (tnzr) because you disagree with him? come on
[16:31] (CryHavoc) he does this all the time...
[16:31] (gopp) hhahaha hello
[16:31] (gopp) tnzr sure
[16:31] * TheTailor bops JegaPRIME with a nerf sledgehammer
[16:32] * CryHavoc dents JegaPRIME with his baling hook
[16:32] (WyldOcsar) saying there are absolute truths is on shaky ground by definition we percieve the world subjectively.
[16:32] (gopp) oh you hate consertive
[16:32] (DopeyDo) evolution vs creation
[16:32] (TheTailor) [18:28] (JegaPRIME) Judging is BAD.
[16:32] (TheTailor) good grief
[16:32] (CryHavoc) LOL
[16:32] (tnzr) I dont see why you cant just ignore him
[16:32] (CryHavoc) we are bad...we judged him to be lame :P
[16:32] (tnzr) why do you have to silence him from teh whole channel
[16:32] (BillFrugg) he's a walking self-contradiction
[16:33] (CryHavoc) tnzr...the odius privilege we have..
[16:33] (USmotto) I believe in a creator
[16:33] (gopp) CryHavoc why does vmware suck
[16:33] (tnzr) CryHavoc: yeah thats true, but what are you accomplishing?
[16:33] (CryHavoc) actually...that is not a discussable topivc for here
[16:33] (pilgrim`) never spedn all your money; keep 3 pennies at all tiems in case you need to make a quick I-Ching cast
[16:33] (gopp) iTunes MPEG audio file [Bruce Springsteen] - 57 Channels (and nothing on) 2:28 160kbit/s
[16:33] (tnzr) other than just using power to stick it to someone with whom you disagree?
[16:33] (CryHavoc) tnzr.....a moderated forum for open debate...
[16:33] (gopp) hahaha
[16:33] * TheTailor strangles gopp
[16:33] (TheTailor) stop that
[16:33] (gopp) opps
[16:33] (gopp) I did that once
[16:34] * CryHavoc sends gopp to Havana as a good will envoy
[16:34] (WyldOcsar) I believe that I am mortal, I believe if I dont pay my taxes I will get a bill from the irs that will include some interest.
[16:34] (tnzr) CryHavoc: so give him a warning at least, then if he persists you can just devoice
[16:34] (TheTailor) tnzr, if you have questions on op actions confine them to message.
[16:34] (KoBushi) WyldOcsar sure, but just because perceptions are subjective, does not mean that the world is
[16:34] (tnzr) TheTailor: alright
[16:34] (CryHavoc) tnzr...not open for discussion
[16:34] (SweetLeaf) God Murtha is an ass
[16:34] (CryHavoc) DweetLeaf...HR Mothra?
[16:35] (WyldOcsar) there may be things in the world that are objective but looking through my subjective eyeglasses things may not be what they appear to be.
[16:36] (BillFrugg) speaking of asses...
[16:36] (gopp) iTunes MPEG audio file [Bruce Springsteen] - 57 Channels (and nothing on) 2:28 160kbit/s
[16:37] (USmotto) gopp, this is politics
[16:37] (td) he was warned not to do that
[16:38] (USmotto) Not stoner band members
[16:38] * CryHavoc disrupts gopps itunes devvice
[16:38] * BillFrugg detunes gopp's itunes
[16:38] (pilgrim`) I have a shuffle in my pocket loaded with bagpipe music, I coudl yank the lanyard and throw it
[16:39] (CryHavoc) bagpipe music works...
[16:39] (USmotto) no, don't...
[16:39] (michaelc) one thing that i strongly suspect is that in the near future the human collective will drop below a critical population mass so that our the level of our technology too falls belows critical mass, both actions acting synergisticly.
[16:39] (michaelc) (michaelc) just as there can be exponential growth, there can be exponential decay.
[16:39] (pilgrim`) ivy is familair with Sturgeon's law no doubt
[16:39] (SweetLeaf) gopp listens to springstein hahahaah
[16:39] (JustinFra) pigrim.. pipe band or Pìobaireachd ?
[16:40] (pilgrim`) I listen to everyone from Planxty to the Black Watch
[16:40] (JustinFra) Pìobaireachd is for your piping connoseiur... sounds even worse than pipe bands
[16:40] (pilgrim`) and my telent session cann' handle that font laddie
[16:40] (pilgrim`) telnet
[16:40] (pilgrim`) Ullian pipe is nice
[16:41] (rond) pilgrim that song you posted the other night from your site, was that you singing ?
[16:41] (pilgrim`) rond yes
[16:41] * st0ner is now known as berkelyg
[16:41] (gopp) iTunes MPEG audio file ^REGGETON - Don Dinero - Hay Amores 4:35 192kbit/s
[16:41] (rond) playing the guitar also ?
[16:41] (JustinFra) the ullian pipes are actually quite musical.. and non deafening
[16:41] (pilgrim`) its from an "album" I was on in 1982
[16:41] * berkelyg is now known as st0ner
[16:41] (DarthBurg) I still can not sleep.
[16:41] (pilgrim`) rond yes
[16:41] (USmotto) I don't like country music one bit, except for some of the 40's and 50's. You, know, country singers that could actually ride a horse
[16:41] (rond) can you post the link again ?
[16:41] (pilgrim`) my one claim to rock and roll stardom
[16:42] (pilgrim`) http://homepage.mac.com/pilgrimer/.Public/Music/The%20Cuckoo.mp3
[16:42] (rond) thanks
[16:42] (pilgrim`) and yes, you MAY download that, I OWN IT. I OWN ASCAP rights on it
[16:42] (DarthBurg) may the bird of paradise fly up your nose.
[16:42] (USmotto) "Never rode a horse, never roped a cow, never planted seed, never worked a plow, I'm a studio cowboy..."
[16:42] (WyldOcsar) I dont know if bob wills could ride a horse but I like his music
[16:43] (rond) USMotto country music is about country people
[16:43] (BillFrugg) may rap never cross with country...
[16:43] (rond) country people != cowboys
[16:43] (DarthBurg) and heartache.
[16:43] (USmotto) rond, it's about money
[16:43] (DarthBurg) BillFrugg Crap?
[16:43] (pilgrim`) I have worked cattle in my youth
[16:44] (pilgrim`) grandad had a ranch and worked my tail off
[16:44] (rond) USmotto you don't seem to know much about music
[16:44] (DarthBurg) country+rap=crap, right?
[16:44] (BillFrugg) rap is already crap...
[16:44] (USmotto) rond, yeah, whatever
[16:44] (KoBushi) I agree, country and rap are crap ;)
[16:44] (DarthBurg) agreed
[16:44] (DarthBurg) well
[16:44] (rond) you don't think the muscians of the 40s and 50's were not trying to make a living ?
[16:44] (DarthBurg) oak ridge boys maybe
[16:45] (DarthBurg) and no dissin Buck Owens
[16:45] (pilgrim`) rap is a latter day parody of an early Oklahoma art form
[16:45] (BillFrugg) some country is pretty good, but most of what is churned out today is too damned depressing
[16:45] (BillFrugg) Buck Owens and his Homies
[16:45] (pilgrim`) I know somewhat of the business
[16:45] (rond) isn't making a living about money ??
[16:45] (BillFrugg) Oak Ridge Bro's
[16:45] (DarthBurg) Roy Clarke, Granpa Jones, and them cute girls
[16:45] (USmotto) Rap is pure garbage
[16:45] (WyldOcsar) leann rimes has a great voice. garth brooks I could do without
[16:45] (pilgrim`) seriously; the earliest form of "rap" was a musical style fromt he Dust Bowl called "Talkign Blues"
[16:46] (KoBushi) I object to most rape because if the content... I don't care for the styling, but that's just taste... the content is wreched and a sign of deprevity and diseased minds
[16:46] (BillFrugg) that guy who did 'achy breaky heart' sounds like a drunk to me
[16:46] (DarthBurg) KoBushi fruedian
[16:46] (USmotto) JS Bach
[16:46] (td) its rape music alright
[16:46] (pilgrim`) Woodie Guthrie an a guy named Cisco Houston made it famous in the 30s
[16:46] (KoBushi) DarthBurg ... lol
[16:46] (DarthBurg) Beethoven's 5th, worlds first rock song
[16:46] (KoBushi) rap, not rape
[16:46] (KoBushi) but yes, that's a funny typo
[16:46] (pilgrim`) see the Phil Lomax Library of Congress colelction of folk music for examples
[16:46] (rond) I don't care for a lot of country music either but you guys are really referring to a very small segment of the genre
[16:46] (BillFrugg) I think most people object to rape... except for the rapists...
[16:47] (td) Its good to see you object to most rape
[16:47] (USmotto) Rap is for idiots
[16:47] (DarthBurg) rape has content? who knew?
[16:47] (pilgrim`) Bach had a lot of childern. know why?
[16:47] (pilgrim`) his Organ had no stops
[16:47] (DarthBurg) har har har
[16:47] * BillFrugg throws a harpsichord at pilgrim'
[16:48] (KoBushi) pilgrim` hah
[16:48] * DarthBurg cues up the peter gunn theme
[16:48] (BillFrugg) Bach wrote pornographic music (Air on a G String)
[16:48] (DarthBurg) Henry Mancini
[16:48] (USmotto) There you go. Bill, something you can grasp
[16:49] (BillFrugg) USmotto: I can't listen to it. I don't own a pornograph
[16:49] (Yaakov) I listen to a lot of Debussy lately.
[16:49] (USmotto) Bill, lol
[16:49] (WyldOcsar) there were touring hawaiian bands on the mainland in the early 1900s that introduced steel guitar to western music, some western music evolved to swing which spread to europe and people like django reinhardt.
[16:50] (DarthBurg) Yaakov regularly pegs his pornograph...
[16:50] (pilgrim`) you know Beethoven's 9th? the strong base notes in the last movement? well.....there were a couple of bassists who sat up at the back and had little to do thru the rest of the symphony, getting board. intermission: "Hey" said one "Lets go get a beer, he won't notice till the last movement". OK say the other and walks down to the podium and puts a note ona string on the last movemnt
[16:50] (USmotto) Steel guitrar came friom Hawaii?
[16:50] (WyldOcsar) steel guitar came from hawaii
[16:50] (gopp) iTunes MPEG audio file 02.FUCKIN - CRAZY 3:51 128kbit/s
[16:51] (td) would you stop that already
[16:51] (pilgrim`) they had their beer and more and more and came back LOOPED! and... when the conductor saw them and turned to the final movement he...cried
[16:51] (pilgrim`) after all:
[16:51] (gopp) can I spam more music TheTailor
[16:51] (gopp) :)
[16:51] (USmotto) I'll be darned
[16:51] (starly) gopp, you are devoiced (Requested by TheTailor - Reason: STOP THAT )
[16:51] (TheTailor) Get it?)
[16:51] (pilgrim`) He was at the Bopttom of the 9th, the bassists were laoded and the score was tied!
[16:51] (USmotto) lol
[16:51] (BillFrugg) very punny
[16:52] (WyldOcsar) many early western bands that used steel guitars like hoot gibson played some hawaii music
[16:52] (BillFrugg) Don Ho
[16:52] * TheTailor bops gopp with a nerf sledgehammer
[16:52] (pilgrim`) steel: 2 kinds: Dobro and National
[16:52] (USmotto) Wagons ho
[16:52] (WyldOcsar) don ho is hapa haole not the real deal
[16:52] (gopp) td you listen as a good liberal to rap
[16:52] * DarthBurg cues the Hawaii 5 Oh theme
[16:52] (pilgrim`) Don Ho played Hawaiian Slap Guitar similar but different
[16:52] (pilgrim`) I would LOVE a National
[16:53] (DarthBurg) big bands is where its at.
[16:53] (BillFrugg) you laugh, DarthBurg, but that first season is a good dvd set
[16:53] (WyldOcsar) a national tri-cone would be wonderful to have
[16:53] (gopp) TheTailor my script went crazy
[16:53] (pilgrim`) I play a rather different style
[16:53] (USmotto) drum roll, close up of McGarret...
[16:53] (BillFrugg) Book 'em Danno!
[16:53] (DarthBurg) I am not laughing. ahh, when type casting was cool.
[16:53] (tnzr) anyone play quadradius?
[16:53] (pilgrim`) 4 circles?
[16:53] (USmotto) No, but I've played Tapawingo
[16:53] (tnzr) hehe.. its a game :)
[16:54] (tnzr) www.quadradius.com
[16:54] (pilgrim`) I play a folk guitar style that derives from early blues.. specifically S Carolina Black "Macho Blues"
[16:54] (gopp) any one here heard of vmconvertor
[16:54] (gopp) any one here heard of vmwareconvertor
[16:54] (gopp) it cool
[16:55] (gopp) it can convertor your current config in to a vmware config
[16:55] (USmotto) tough course, Tapawingo
[16:55] (gopp) that is yoru current physical system in to a vmwar esystem
[16:55] (pilgrim`) would that I could play as I once played when younger
[16:55] (WyldOcsar) I have been listening to ry cooder a bit lately which is accoustic blues using a resonator guitar.
[16:56] (pilgrim`) Wyld the best resonator (wood) were made by Gibson in the 30s
[16:56] (pilgrim`) they were specialized dreadnaught style
[16:56] (pilgrim`) as vs Steel resonators which are Nationals
[16:56] (WyldOcsar) I have a gibson ultratone electric lap steel. a friend of mine has a national
[16:56] (pilgrim`) nice
[16:57] (USmotto) I play air guitar
[16:57] (pilgrim`) I own a older 12 str Guild, but thats my only real guitar
[16:57] (nharris) maybe I should switch to vmware. I've been doing multiboot for my tests lately
[16:57] (WyldOcsar) guilds have a sweet sound
[16:57] (USmotto) I also play air drums
[16:57] (pilgrim`) yeah
[16:58] (pilgrim`) that tune I posted was recorded on a Yamaha studnet model FG75. would that I still had that little beast
[16:58] (BillFrugg) USmotto used to sing, but local ordinances put a stop to that
[16:58] (USmotto) lol
[16:58] (USmotto) Made the papers
[16:58] (pilgrim`) it had been re-worked by a master Luthier
[16:59] (pilgrim`) btw, so was my Guild
[16:59] (pilgrim`) my guitar is named Easter after a Leo Kotke song
[16:59] (nharris) studnet... sounds like the irc network *I* would use
[16:59] (pilgrim`) heh
[16:59] (pilgrim`) I am dyslexic when I play too ;)
[16:59] (WyldOcsar) I have an electric accoustic flattop yamaha which is from the early seventies, it sounds pretty good.
[17:00] (nharris) hehehe
[17:00] (BillFrugg) semi-accoustic?
[17:00] (pilgrim`) I forget the model # but I knwo that one, I have played it.
[17:00] (WyldOcsar) its an accoustic with a pickup
[17:00] (pilgrim`) yeah
[17:00] (USmotto) Although I listened to rock music growing up, I really think classical music is the pinnacle of music
[17:01] (pilgrim`) there was a music store in santa Fe NM I used to hang out at, but it burned down :(
[17:01] (USmotto) I think JS Bach leads the way
[17:01] * BillFrugg wonders who burned it down...
[17:01] (niller) so waht are your fave bands? :)
[17:01] (gopp) pilgrim` what was so great about it
[17:01] (pilgrim`) I did too
[17:01] (BillFrugg) Mozart!
[17:01] (pilgrim`) they had a collection of antique guitars. all lost
[17:01] (gopp) BillFrugg loves women lib music :)
[17:01] (gopp) joke
[17:01] (pilgrim`) Scriaban!
[17:01] (nharris) muslims burned that place down because music is sinful
[17:01] (WyldOcsar) music keeps on evolving, really great music is timeless.
[17:02] (gopp) WyldOcsar you like rap
[17:02] (pilgrim`) Gustav Holtz!!!!
[17:02] (WyldOcsar) some rap I do like
[17:02] * BillFrugg fails to understand gopp, but no one else does either
[17:02] (niller) good evolving melodiess will survive
[17:02] (gopp) BillFrugg I was joking
[17:02] (niller) 3 minutes popsongs iwll rule
[17:02] (pilgrim`) rap is a aberation that will hopefully go back to its cespit and decompose
[17:02] (niller) there is good rap too
[17:03] (niller) not all of it sux
[17:03] (pilgrim`) good rap. is that like good cancer?
[17:03] (BillFrugg) rap was only good for rapture
[17:03] (pilgrim`) yes I like Original rap a lot
[17:03] (gopp) so thier no rap you like pilgrim`
[17:03] (BillFrugg) rove rap was the worst
[17:03] (pilgrim`) Talkign Blues
[17:03] (niller) like good 80s 'im wearing leopard pant' heavy'
[17:03] (USmotto) Rap is the lowest culture
[17:03] (WyldOcsar) I differentiate between rap and hiphop. I like hiphop infinitely better than gangsta crap.
[17:03] (gopp) pilgrim` you don't like run dmc or
[17:03] (gopp) sugar hill gang
[17:04] (gopp) or grand master flash and the furious five
[17:04] (pilgrim`) gopp I have never heard any I like. I can even engoy a Balinies Gamelon but rap? no
[17:04] (niller) mind you - the good hiphop dont get airplay
[17:04] (pilgrim`) enjoy
[17:04] (gopp) blues is what rap is today
[17:04] (nharris) man.. rap has far outlived the lifespan I predicted for it
[17:04] (niller) dunno - i grew up on hendrix
[17:04] (BillFrugg) I've always noted that while technology was poorest, some of the best music was being created. Now that technology is able to accurately reproduce recorded music, we produce crap.
[17:04] (nharris) thank god 90's alternative died out
[17:05] (niller) there will always be good musicians
[17:05] (pilgrim`) the Gamelon does not use the pentatonic scale so is dischordant to western ears but I understand the sequence
[17:05] (gopp) BillFrugg good point brintey spears is great example
[17:05] (KoBushi) gopp how so? blues still exist as thier own genre :P
[17:05] (niller) and bad record labels not signing them
[17:05] (BillFrugg) thank God that 'Backstreet Boys' and 'N'Sync' aren't around anymore...
[17:05] (WyldOcsar) gangsta gets the air play. salt n peppa, run dmc, beastie boys is all like 25 year old now
[17:05] (pilgrim`) rap otoh is just...well the only word I can think of is "bad"
[17:05] (gopp) KoBushi so true
[17:05] (niller) not that that matters anymore
[17:05] (gopp) salt n peppa run dmc krsone all good rap gangstar
[17:06] (niller) now a kid with a mind for music can sell it online
[17:06] (gopp) will smith is sane rap
[17:06] (USmotto) Lynard Skynyrd, greatest rock band...
[17:06] (gopp) you don't like will smith then you got a problem
[17:06] (gopp) USmotto how so
[17:06] (niller) will smith did summertime
[17:06] (pilgrim`) my tastes run to southern black blues masters, some 60s folk blues and rock, classical, and Celtic folk
[17:06] (WyldOcsar) fresh prince and jazzy jeff did fun stuff
[17:06] (USmotto) gopp, purely subjective
[17:06] (gopp) pilgrim` do they p lay them on xm or sirius
[17:06] (BillFrugg) I will listen to anything, but crap is just out
[17:06] (gopp) BillFrugg ever listen to xm
[17:06] (USmotto) crap stinks
[17:07] (gopp) they play good music
[17:07] (BillFrugg) gopp, no
[17:07] (niller) just find the good sruff
[17:07] (pilgrim`) gopp I have recordings of what I like. some mp3 some CD soem LP some 78s
[17:07] (pilgrim`) I haev 2 victrolas
[17:07] (rond) http://www.myspace.com/jayboyadamsmusic (--- USMotto, play small town. That is the essence of country music
[17:07] (gopp) ahh you ahve 78'd
[17:07] (nharris) Lynyrd Skynyrd invented the FUDC FUTK fued with FUNY (Neil Young)
[17:07] (niller) shit i found a record from 200 that i still listen 2 - after 6 months
[17:07] (gopp) what a 78's
[17:07] (BillFrugg) from 200?
[17:07] (niller) 78 is before vinyl
[17:07] (rond) I know J Boy Adams as far as I know he doesn't have a horse but he is country
[17:08] (niller) lacker?
[17:08] (niller) dunno the english word
[17:08] (niller) but a records with 79 rpm
[17:08] (niller) (rounds pr minute)
[17:08] (BillFrugg) revolutions
[17:08] (niller) 78
[17:09] (gopp) oh shit
[17:09] (niller) good t sample ;)
[17:09] (WyldOcsar) I have a ton of 45rpm 12" singles from the eighties, I bought from a dj who became a cop.
[17:09] (gopp) sirius got live tv in your car
[17:09] (USmotto) I don't know what was before vinyl
[17:09] (BillFrugg) no, gopp. crap
[17:09] (pilgrim`) gopp http://www.archive.org/details/CommandP1942
[17:09] (gopp) pilgrim` from rca
[17:09] (niller) i got 4 cases of 13" in my apartment - dont have a record player
[17:10] (WyldOcsar) 78's werent vinyl, drop them they shatter
[17:10] * pilgrim` had a beer with Arlo once, knew Jimmy Seals, had a cup of coffee with Grace Slick once, met a few others int he bizz
[17:10] (TheTailor) Wax cylinders were before vynal.
[17:10] (niller) 23
[17:10] (niller) 12
[17:10] (niller) damn
[17:10] (TheTailor) wtf...vinyl
[17:10] (USmotto) I have "Frampton Comes Alive"
[17:10] (gopp) hahaha sirius got back seat tv
[17:11] (BillFrugg) Frampton got old, but still sounds good
[17:11] (nharris) there's a guy who used to be a regular on #30plus who fucked Grace Slick once :)
[17:11] (pilgrim`) http://www.tinfoil.com/cylmonth.htm
[17:11] (niller) ok. worst record i got? thats damn hard - i got so many for free
[17:11] (WyldOcsar) actually vinyl sales have been up for the last 5 years mainly because jazz and classical audiphiles buy them.
[17:11] (TheTailor) nharris, sure he did.
[17:11] (gopp) hahahaha
[17:11] (USmotto) One great album, Peter Frampton
[17:11] (gopp) nharris SIRIUS Backseat TV™ is a dynamic and pioneering TV service that delivers live TV from the best family TV networks to the video screens of select vehicles equipped with a SIRIUS Backseat TV™ receiver.
[17:11] (pilgrim`) nharris I just sat in a diner and swapped lies for an hour
[17:11] (gopp) TheTailor sirius got tv for the car
[17:11] (nharris) hehehehe that's good too!
[17:11] (TheTailor) gopp, so does DirecTV
[17:12] (pilgrim`) ever hear of Selas and Crofts?
[17:12] (pilgrim`) Seals
[17:12] (BillFrugg) Summer Breeze!
[17:12] (nharris) gopp..will we faithful xm listeners get access to sirius channels?
[17:12] (BillFrugg) Hummingbird!
[17:12] (USmotto) Crosby Sealls and Croft?
[17:12] (WyldOcsar) seals and croft had some great hits
[17:12] (pilgrim`) Seals was an old HS buddy of my then room mate. they were doing a concert in town and showed up at our place after
[17:12] (pilgrim`) naw, the Champs
[17:12] (pilgrim`) that was their 1st group
[17:12] (USmotto) pilgrim, big time, baby
[17:12] (pilgrim`) Tequilla
[17:13] (pilgrim`) the voice is Dash Crofts
[17:13] (gopp) pilgrim` Magic Eye wtf is a magic eye turntable
[17:13] (pilgrim`) :)
[17:13] (gopp) TheTailor they do what channels do they offer
[17:13] (gopp) for your car
[17:14] (USmotto) bbl
[17:14] (pilgrim`) old tech can be cool tech
[17:14] (WyldOcsar) I have also been listening frank ifield lately who I didnt know until recently. he shared the stage with the beatles and had a bunch of top ten hits.
[17:14] (niller) anyone ever got into audiobooks?
[17:14] (gopp) nharris I heard comercial today on cnn in spanish that our reciver will get sirius content
[17:14] (niller) i tried it - too damn slow
[17:14] (gopp) I am unsure how
[17:14] (pilgrim`) know about Hendrix and the Monkeys tour?
[17:15] (gopp) on cnn in spanish on xm
[17:15] (gopp) this moring rather
[17:15] (TheTailor) too slow?
[17:15] (niller) reading is twice as fast
[17:15] (TheTailor) Oh
[17:15] (niller) at least
[17:15] (pilgrim`) they went on tour, the Experience was the lead-in band. the crowds LOVED Jimmy and booed the monkeys off stage: "BRING THAT BLACK GUY BAC!!"
[17:15] (KaylaKaze) Looking for God - Live with the Infidel Guy - now playing at www.freethoughtmedia.com
[17:15] (TheTailor) Well you might find reading slower when you are driving.
[17:15] (WyldOcsar) when I used to commute four hours a day audiobooks kept me sane.
[17:16] (pilgrim`) I live about 6 blcoks from my office. that helps
[17:16] (WyldOcsar) I work at home, which I love.
[17:17] (nharris) Ann Coulter book on CD made my drive up north sail by :)
[17:18] (astrodog) niller: I've got a b unch of em...
[17:19] (gopp) nharris what cd was it
[17:19] (astrodog) Set em to 200% speed.
[17:19] (astrodog) ;)
[17:19] (niller) which?
[17:19] (gopp) how to talk to liberals
[17:19] (nharris) gopp exactly
[17:19] (astrodog) For a drive... I set them to 75%... makes em last longer.
[17:19] (astrodog) ;)
[17:19] (nharris) I'm thinking of ripping it to MP3 and "distributing" to any who ask
[17:19] (gopp) nharris sweet is it good mp3
[17:19] (niller) seriously - does it matter if im liberal or rich gopp?
[17:19] (nossy) hmm..looks like the Iran thing is escalating, they are talking about putting the british sailors on trial
[17:20] (niller) so fuck you loser
[17:20] (nharris) yeah..the downside is, many auto-based CD players can't play the mp3 format
[17:20] (niller) act mature
[17:20] (WyldOcsar) car cd players that will play 14 hour long mp3 disks are great and under a hundred now.
[17:20] (astrodog) nharris: You could just make an MP3 with "Insert Conservative Screed Here".
[17:20] (astrodog) :P
[17:20] (niller) hating people doesnt make you adult
[17:21] (nharris) naw.. this CD is chock full of proof and cites of the hypocrisy of liberals. Can't get that just by spouting Republican mantras
[17:21] (KaylaKaze) you can if you make stuff up
[17:21] (astrodog) nharris: Its easy to show both sides to be hypocritical assholes.
[17:21] (niller) so why are liberals hypcrites?
[17:22] (niller) because caring for others are a sign of weakness?
[17:23] (niller) tell me why liberal is bad
[17:23] (nharris) the list is long and distinguished of why liberals are hypocrites... not unlike my penis..which isn't a hypocrite but is long and semi-distinguished
[17:23] (niller) or should i talk mofo like you?
[17:23] (niller) so start the list now
[17:23] (niller) dont copy paste
[17:23] (niller) tell me
[17:23] (niller) motherfucker
[17:23] (TheTailor) niller, liberal isn't bad, leftist moron is bad.
[17:23] (niller) no it isnt
[17:24] (KaylaKaze) any moron is bad
[17:24] (KaylaKaze) kinda by definition
[17:24] (TheTailor) And watch your mouth.
[17:24] (niller) broke rightwing idiots are bad
[17:24] (TheTailor) KaylaKaze, well, I suppose.
[17:24] (pilgrim`) right wing is just too leftist
[17:24] (FreeTrad3) Back Stabbing 2 Faced Liar
[17:24] (TheTailor) niller, far right is bad too
[17:24] (nharris) heheh excellent ban!
[17:24] (niller) i agree
[17:24] (niller) i hate far left too
[17:25] (niller) crazy people
[17:25] (TheTailor) Wait, lets be fair...
[17:25] (TheTailor) Far right ASSHOLES are bad
[17:25] (niller) i might be one myself but beat myself up over it
[17:25] (pilgrim`) I was curious what happend there, that fellow was reasonable then one day he started gettign more and more weird
[17:25] (niller) assuming you are right is weak
[17:26] (niller) always question your actions
[17:26] (nharris) most lefties are far lefties
[17:26] (Yaakov) pilgrim`: In contrast to me. I started out weird and have remained so.
[17:26] (niller) no. they are just not american right
[17:26] (KaylaKaze) no, most lefties are moderate left. It's just the righties are so far right that the center looks off
[17:27] (niller) but i see american in china too
[17:27] (niller) american right
[17:27] (WyldOcsar) I consider william f. buckley a real conservative, barry goldwater and ronald reagan conservatives. I have and had less problems with them than the moderates.
[17:27] (nharris) most eurotrash are lefties too
[17:27] (niller) true
[17:27] (niller) i stil hate so called commies
[17:28] (niller) more than you
[17:28] (niller) they act like right wing mofos
[17:28] (niller) or left wing mofos
[17:28] (niller) take your pick
[17:28] (Yaakov) KaylaKaze: In the current environment, most people identifiable as left or right have nothing moderate about them.
[17:28] (nharris) socialism is a moronic concept..yet the youth keep trying it, decade after decade
[17:29] (CGI902) the youth?
[17:29] (WyldOcsar) public education, social security, and welfare are all socialist programs they are sacred to both parties
[17:29] (CGI902) seems most of Europe is partially socialist, and those are generally either run by middle aged or elderly politicians and parties.
[17:29] (niller) yes. having people vote is so last century
[17:29] (KaylaKaze) Yaakov: That's because the things have been pushed so far right, to be moderate looks leftist. There are plenty moderates being called left wing nutters
[17:29] (CGI902) Wyld: exactly.
[17:29] * pilgrim` is headed home
[17:29] (pilgrim`) bbl
[17:30] (astrodog) Mmm
[17:30] (nharris) hence the idea of privatizing social security to the TRUE parties
[17:30] (KaylaKaze) CGI902: Not to mention having the highest standard of living in the world
[17:30] (Lupine) KaylaKaze: what planet are you from? Bush is a pretty strong socialist/leftist in terms of domestic policy. Largest expansion of social benefits since FDR
[17:30] (niller) its not a contest
[17:30] (Yaakov) KaylaKaze: You can assert that but the evidence doesn't support it. Can you give some examples?
[17:30] (TheTailor) KaylaKaze, I don't find that true.
[17:30] (niller) its about the best for all of us
[17:30] (KaylaKaze) Lupine: That's completely insane
[17:30] (astrodog) Lup: No...
[17:30] (astrodog) He doesn't want to PAY for his policies.
[17:30] (Lupine) KaylaKaze: have you seen the massive growth in socialist spending over the last 6 years?
[17:30] (niller) then we got people who think god put their leader in place
[17:30] (astrodog) A real socialist would admit that it costs more.
[17:31] (niller) care about cost?
[17:31] (Lupine) astrodog: um, he does admit it costs more. He also increased the total tax dollars taken in.
[17:31] (KaylaKaze) Yaakov: Hillary Clinton. She's so right wing she's just barely moderate yet is called a liberal wacko. Same for John Kerry.
[17:31] (Lupine) tax RATE != tax intake
[17:31] (WyldOcsar) america's socialist programs have become institutions and people dont see them for what they are anymore
[17:31] (niller) help your war heroes
[17:31] (KaylaKaze) Lupine: The only "socialist" causes bush has given any money to is corporations
[17:31] (Lupine) WyldOcsar: you can say that again. the USA has some of the _largest_ socialist programs [ in terms of dollars ] in the world
[17:32] (astrodog) Lup: I looked this up once... every president has had the highest revenue on record, atleast one of the years they were in office.
[17:32] (Yaakov) KaylaKaze: If we are talking about what people are "called" in political rhetoric then I apologize. I had something more substantive in mind.
[17:32] (nharris) small amounts of socialism such as income tax actually make sense and aren't, by any stretch, the socialism the goofball libs want
[17:32] (Lupine) KaylaKaze: um, social security? medicaid? medicare? welfare? homeless assistance?
[17:32] (KaylaKaze) Lupine: all cut under bush
[17:32] (niller) we live in a world where corporations are bigger than some countries - then we got africe - leftover
[17:32] (Lupine) hahahhaa.. okay, i can tell you are either totally clueless, or intentinoally lying.
[17:32] (niller) and china kicking ass
[17:33] (KaylaKaze) Lupine: Or you've been listening to the Oxy Moron
[17:33] (niller) 1 party rules all - 2parties pretend
[17:33] (niller) i hope china falls
[17:33] (niller) but then again i car about people
[17:33] (CGI902) I wouldn'
[17:33] (CGI902) t bet on it
[17:33] (tnzr) that would mean wal-mart would go away, which I am all in favor of
[17:33] (Yaakov) KaylaKaze: Not that I agree with your assertion, even then.
[17:34] (tnzr) actually it probably wouldn't mean that
[17:34] (Yaakov) KaylaKaze: But it ins't an interesting discussion.
[17:34] (niller) what ive learned from where i were - people are fucking evil
[17:34] (niller) and the rest let the mofos rule them
[17:34] (KaylaKaze) Yaakov: not really
[17:35] (niller) call it what you want
[17:35] (nharris) beagles are smart.. they'd never be socialiberalists
[17:35] (niller) washington was fucking scary
[17:35] (niller) evil people
[17:35] (tnzr) niller: and thats with the DC Sniper behind bars
[17:35] (niller) think they care about you?
[17:36] (niller) its all about power
[17:36] (tnzr) its a mad world
[17:36] (niller) so if you decide on fucking people you got a chance
[17:36] (niller) same in europe
[17:36] (niller) china
[17:36] (niller) middle east
[17:36] (CGI902) niller: what were you doing in Washington?
[17:37] (niller) hmm
[17:37] (niller) which time?
[17:37] (TheTailor) niller, everywhere but Austrailia
[17:37] (CGI902) any, I guess
[17:37] (niller) drugs wwith politicians
[17:37] (CGI902) really?
[17:37] (CGI902) anyone famous? :D
[17:37] (niller) time with the family thinking what it could be
[17:37] (CGI902) what what could be
[17:37] (niller) i prefer to remember the latter
[17:38] (niller) idea of democracy
[17:38] (niller) wish politicians werent powermad
[17:38] (t0tgiglz) they are talking about the my space crank played on mccain on the news
[17:39] (niller) but itsa the same kind of people ruling - doesnt matter where on earth you are
[17:39] (flm) niller that is the # 2 most important thing on all politicians minds .
[17:39] (abum) wtf is a t0tgiglz!
[17:39] (flm) Power
[17:39] (t0tgiglz) wtf is a abum
[17:39] (t0tgiglz) ;)
[17:39] (niller) shit i hate my own country
[17:39] * t0tgiglz hus abum
[17:40] * t0tgiglz hugs abum
[17:40] (niller) people trying to fuck each over over words
[17:40] (flm) niller where do you live Cuba ? or Venezuela ?
[17:40] (niller) denmark
[17:41] (nharris) danes are ok..it's the DUTCH who are really mouthy and have no ground to stand on :)
[17:41] (niller) we only got 17 political parties - all powermad people
[17:41] (flm) niller is denmark a Socialist country ?
[17:41] (niller) one of the few supporting a stupid war in iraq
[17:41] (Yaakov) I am not a socialist country.
[17:41] (niller) for votes
[17:41] (CGI902) I love the US and disagree with your take on Iraq.
[17:42] (niller) good for you
[17:42] (CGI902) despite our own imperfections
[17:42] (flm) Yaakov Are you sure ?
[17:42] (CGI902) I suppose, yes, it is good.
[17:42] (Lupine) Department of Health and Human Services: 2006 actual 1235.079billion 1998 actual 767.758 billion
[17:42] (Yaakov) Define "sure".
[17:43] (Lupine) Look at that, socialist spending way up under Bush as compared to Clinton
[17:43] (astrodog) Lup: What's the difference after inflation?
[17:43] (Lupine) i sure as hell wish Bush as a lower-socialist as Bill Clinton was
[17:43] (KaylaKaze) where are you getting those numbers?
[17:43] (flm) Yaakov Sure= like know what I'm sayen !
[17:43] (Lupine) right from the source http://www.hhs.gov/budget/docbudget.htm
[17:44] (niller) why is socialist so bad? i could be a commie supprting america?
[17:44] (niller) like russia
[17:44] (niller) helping people in ned?
[17:44] (niller) could be worse
[17:44] (nharris) socialists are like muslims..they will not rest until the rest of the world is like them
[17:44] (Lupine) astrodog: inflation only would result in 907.146 billion
[17:44] (n00b504) russia is hardly communist any more.. the old communists seem to rather like the riches of their new corrupt capitalist system
[17:44] (niller) like a city refusing to feed the homeless in america
[17:45] (astrodog) Lup: So he's a big commie.
[17:45] (astrodog) :P
[17:45] (Lupine) astrodog: it's a double fuck really
[17:45] (KaylaKaze) Those aren't the numbers I'm seeing
[17:45] (nharris) standard eurotrash..bashes USA without knowing the facts. Most homeless here are that way because of a mental defect..they actually refuse help
[17:45] (Lupine) 1) we hemorage money like a whore.. 2) GOP still viewed as "scrooges" for welfare/etc
[17:45] (niller) if feeding starving people is commie?
[17:45] (flm) niller,, Like confiscating property ( I.E. money ) for the purpose od distrabution among the masses ?
[17:45] (astrodog) Kay: Lup is wrong on policy pretty often... but I rarely see him lie on raw figures.
[17:45] (Lupine) i did just use the first inflation calculator on google..
[17:45] (nharris) yeah.. commie russia had NO starving people..lol
[17:46] (niller) neither does america
[17:46] (niller) !
[17:46] (TheTailor) niller, what makes you think we refuse to feed the homeless?
[17:46] (niller) thank god
[17:46] (astrodog) nharris: After Stalin, it did pretty well, in that respect.
[17:46] (Lupine) astrodog: I think Bush should have CUT funding of socialism from Bill. Not gone ape shit expanding it.
[17:46] (niller) news stories about it?
[17:46] (niller) think it was chicago?
[17:46] (nharris) pretty well meaning "more starving people than USA" yeah
[17:46] (astrodog) Lup: Conservatism is dead.
[17:46] (astrodog) ;)
[17:46] (|v0dka|) niller: news stories about homeless shelters refusing to shelter the homeless?
[17:46] (niller) check googlenews
[17:46] * |v0dka| is now known as v0dkaa
[17:46] (TheTailor) niller, you live in a tabloid world
[17:46] (astrodog) The socialists won... no one wants to admit it yet.
[17:46] (astrodog) ;)
[17:47] (KaylaKaze) I sure as hell dont see any 1.2 TRILLION dollar spending anywhere in this budget
[17:47] (v0dkaa) niller: why should I check google news?
[17:47] (niller) sorry - ill find it
[17:47] (niller) i told you to check the net
[17:47] (nharris) euro's are issued an out-of-date guide to the USA which was never accurate anyway.
[17:47] (niller) but ill have to do it
[17:47] (v0dkaa) why should I?
[17:47] (niller) brb
[17:47] (astrodog) v0d: It happens on ocassion.
[17:47] (astrodog) Shelters are overcrowded in some cases, etc.
[17:47] (flm) Niller you lost me,, Are you answering my question or writing a commic skit ?
[17:47] (niller) no im looking
[17:48] (TheTailor) niller is an aussie troll as I remember
[17:48] (TheTailor) Don't take him seriously
[17:48] (TheTailor) He never lasts long here
[17:48] (nharris) he's danish today :)
[17:49] (KoBushi) do aussie trolls have worse teeth than normal ones?
[17:49] (flm) astrodog if they are not, it means there are toooo many
[17:49] (TheTailor) haha, yeah, he's Danish alright
[17:49] (Lupine) page 12 http://www.hhs.gov/budget/fy01budget/hhs2000.pdf for actual 1998
[17:49] (flm) kobushi no but they are sharper.
[17:49] (astrodog) flm: Ideally, they'd all operate ~90-95%, imo.
[17:50] (flm) Astrodog,, if they are Public ( government owned) or privet ??
[17:50] (astrodog) flm: In general.
[17:51] (astrodog) You want a bit of flex room, to handle disasters and such.
[17:51] (Lupine) bbl
[17:51] (flm) Astrodog who's Ideal s are yopu going by ?
[17:51] (astrodog) flm: Mine.
[17:51] (astrodog) Thus the
[17:51] (astrodog) "imo"
[17:51] (niller) still trying to find it
[17:52] (redfish) astrodog hi
[17:52] (astrodog) Bluefish!
[17:52] (KaylaKaze) Oh. I see how this works. You post links to a 106 page PDF file thinking I'll have to go through the whole damn thing to prove you wring, only to keep searching thinking I missed it when I don't find your claims
[17:52] (rond) niller on #wii +#politics +#horror #hip You might ask for help on one of these (other than #poli
[17:52] (Yaakov) Lupine?
[17:52] (flm) Astrodog,, If we were to get rid of the war on drugs we could spend more money on Shelters and Rehab, And Save Billions and slow crime and save Billions on Jails !
[17:52] (BillFrugg) he said page 12
[17:52] (redfish) billfruggrobotvoice
[17:52] (niller) 'oh no?!
[17:53] (niller) you know where i live
[17:53] * BillFrugg disembowels a redfish and puts it in the frying pan
[17:53] (niller) please rond
[17:53] (niller) should that scare me?
[17:53] (Lupine) BillFrugg: I guess that exceeds her cranial capacity to comprehend.
[17:53] (Yaakov) WAREZ LUPINE?!
[17:53] (flm) BillFrugg how is that red fish for making Sebichi ?
[17:54] (rond) why should it scare you
[17:54] (niller) or should i spend the same time scaring you?
[17:54] (Lupine) Yaakov: huh?
[17:54] (nharris) I need a warez... a warez vista.. not paying for that beast
[17:54] (Yaakov) Lupine: This is something you will like! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhIJOVD8hwY
[17:54] (astrodog) nharris: Just don't run it.
[17:54] (astrodog) :P
[17:54] (BillFrugg) Lupine :D
[17:54] (astrodog) Illegal crap is still crap.
[17:54] (Lupine) Yaakov: heh, welcome to like 4years ago
[17:54] (Lupine) Yaakov: you know.. he tried to sue the *SCHOOL* over that?
[17:54] (rond) so nharris you like to make up things about the US and steal from US companies too ?
[17:55] (Lupine) saying release of the video ruined his career.. yea, THAT is what did it
[17:55] (BillFrugg) nharris, even if you download it, you can't run it without a unique number
[17:55] (Lupine) anyways, classic idiot mistake he made.
[17:55] (Yaakov) I like the part where everyone wants him to put the rifle down.
[17:55] (rond) Your a hell of a dane !!!
[17:55] (rond) nharris keep it on channel please
[17:55] (flm) Astrodog Would that take away to much power from government ?
[17:55] (nharris) rond.. I'm american... do try to get your trolling card updated. Thanks
[17:55] (rond) nharris keep it on channel please
[17:56] (Lupine) there really is a 5th rule added to the 4 golden rules during instruction/training/etc.. *NEVER* bring in a firearm that is loaded to demonstrate its operation
[17:56] (Yaakov) "This is an empty weapon..."
[17:56] (rond) you said you were danish
[17:56] (Yaakov) Sheesh.
[17:56] (astrodog) flm: Not really. Its mostly a policy debate.
[17:56] (nharris) no.. I said that putz Niller was danish.
[17:56] (rond) please start speaking the truth somewhere
[17:56] (Yaakov) Empty head is more like it.
[17:56] (flm) nharris,, what is the " Trolling" I have heard people talking about in here ?
[17:56] (Lupine) Yaakov: a big reason why many departments switched to glocks for their first semi-automatics was Glock's training program.
[17:57] (niller) what eakes me a putz?
[17:57] (Lupine) they profit disabled firearms that are always safe to use. so there's no chance of that BS happening
[17:57] (nharris) flm.. usually some lefties come on this channel, thinking it's heavily biased to the right.. and say something they know will cause an argument. Hence trolling :)
[17:57] (Lupine) produce
[17:57] (niller) nharris
[17:57] (Yaakov) There are more ADs to the leg foot and butt with Glocks than with anything else.
[17:57] (Yaakov) Because people have no trigger discipline.
[17:57] (niller) its the internet - we can offend each other
[17:57] (astrodog) The channel does have a bias to the right... though its not very strong these days.
[17:57] (TheTailor) flm, see your messages.
[17:57] (niller) noone gets hurt
[17:57] (nharris) your lack of the facts not stopping you from bashing USA niller. Putz was probably being too kind.
[17:57] (Yaakov) And he didn't even check the chamber.
[17:57] (Yaakov) What a nitwit.
[17:57] (Lupine) in this case, it was because he only dropped the mag. didn't check the chamber.
[17:57] (flm) Astrodog,, And it is also a Government spending Debate, and a power issue fro Politicians .
[17:57] (niller) i love america - lived there
[17:57] (niller) i hate stupid people
[17:57] (astrodog) flm: Fundamentally, its about policy.
[17:57] (Lupine) glock's also have a nasty thing for takedown: you gotta pull the trigger to do it
[17:57] (niller) not the same thing
[17:58] (TheTailor) niller, self hate isn't good for you.
[17:58] (nharris) hmmm lived here long enough to determine there are scads of homeless people the USA is just refusing to feed... mmkay
[17:58] (Lupine) just about any other gun.. well.. if you try to disassemble with it loaded.. most likely it wont go bank. a glock always will
[17:58] (CryHavoc) niller...where are you now??
[17:58] (niller) back in denmark
[17:58] (CryHavoc) STAY THERE
[17:58] (TheTailor) hahaha
[17:58] (flm) Thank you Tailor
[17:58] (TheTailor) No shit
[17:58] (niller) so SHOUTING MAKES A POINT CRYHAVOC?
[17:58] (Yaakov) Lupine: He must have done something REALLY stupid because he had the slide LOCKED BACK. How do you get the slide back without extraction?
[17:59] (flm) TheTailor, that is pritty much what I thought it ment.
[17:59] (niller) and i dont hate myself - i feel sorry for people
[17:59] (CryHavoc) Denmark...the land of a minimal 48% income tax...and culture riots....oh...heaven!!
[17:59] (niller) you should try it
[17:59] (CryHavoc) it di that time
[17:59] (CryHavoc) TT got it
[17:59] (BillFrugg) maybe you should hate yourself
[17:59] (astrodog) Cry: riots are a decent way to get laid. ;)
[17:59] (niller) judging poeple is sooooooo cool
[17:59] (CryHavoc) niller..nope..I prefer enumerated rights and less government
[17:59] (niller) people
[17:59] (niller) im all for freedom
[17:59] (KaylaKaze) OH! You added "budget authority" to outlays to get your numbers.
[18:00] (niller) so SPEAK UP
[18:00] (Yaakov) Lupine: I can't figure out how he left one up the pipe with the slide back.
[18:00] * del_away is now known as DeLimmer
[18:00] (Yaakov) He *must* have had a magaine in there... hmm...
[18:00] (Lupine) Yaakov: oops.. said it in the wrong order. He slide it back, locked. dropped the slide. THEN ejected the mag
[18:00] (nharris) everyone cites sweden as the model of society, but their taxes are crushing, and their muslim component threatens to take over just like the rest of europe :)
[18:00] (flm) Astrodog,, The War On Drugs, Is the samething as Prohabition was in the 1920s and has the same results,, proof that we learn nothing from History .
[18:00] (niller) i like to visit hawaii
[18:00] (niller) nice place
[18:00] (niller) new york is cool
[18:00] (Lupine) nharris: and warning the women that they may be raped due to being dressed "provacative" to arabs
[18:01] (CryHavoc) nharris..not only Sweden
[18:01] (niller) moscow was fun
[18:01] (nharris) hahah lupine..
[18:01] (Lupine) i dont care WHAT ones culture is. If you can't handle seeing a woman, even naked, without raping her.. you deserve to have your brians put out
[18:01] (flm) niller me too ,, I have yet see ether of them.
[18:01] (CryHavoc) of course niller would like Moscow
[18:01] (niller) benn to both places
[18:01] (BillFrugg) brians?
[18:01] (niller) *been
[18:01] (flm) niller but I am not sure I want to see Moscow
[18:01] (niller) no hated it
[18:01] (niller) before the wall fell
[18:01] (Yaakov) Lupine: Yes, When I unload I release the magazine, then eject the chambered round. But my Smith has a magazine safety. If it was a Glock, I might eject then drop the magazine.
[18:02] (Lupine) Yaakov: drop mag, eject. lock back. Stick finger in chamber, stick finger in mag hole.
[18:02] (niller) they all wanted bubblegum and jeans
[18:02] (niller) now they are just criminals
[18:02] (CryHavoc) niller...Denmark uber alles??
[18:02] (niller) got no love for moscow
[18:02] (niller) no we suck too
[18:02] (niller) but live and learn
[18:02] (CryHavoc) niller is a Paper Cutout European
[18:02] (niller) learn from mistakes?
[18:03] (CryHavoc) Europe still has yet to learn
[18:03] (niller) wwelcome to the cold war
[18:03] (Yaakov) If I was doing a demo, I think I would have a gun other than my sidearm, unloaded, before I walked into the room.
[18:03] (CryHavoc) errr what??
[18:03] (Lupine) Yaakov: i've been handling firearms since I was like 5ish [ obviuosly with my dad ].. I *still* always take a 10 second pause after clearing a firearm.. double check... THEN start disassembling it.
[18:03] (CryHavoc) Coldwar ended August 1991
[18:03] (CryHavoc) Lupine..point at niller first...win/win
[18:03] (Lupine) Yaakov: that is standard policy. NO duty weapons in non-live-fire training
[18:03] (niller) 91? - that givs me 20 years i the middle of some fucked up war
[18:04] (CryHavoc) what war??
[18:04] (niller) coooooold
[18:04] (niller) not really a war
[18:04] * BillFrugg points a gun at niller and asks "Is this thing loaded?" Bang!
[18:04] (CryHavoc) Thetailor niller is stuck in a mindwarp
[18:04] (Lupine) as cold as Janet Reno's nipple on a cold wet night?
[18:04] (davtek2) evening all
[18:04] (Lupine) BillFrugg: "it is not now!"
[18:04] (KaylaKaze) Budget authority - Broad responsibility by Congress that government agencies have the power to spend federal funds.
[18:04] (Yaakov) Lupine: I do the same. I look through the slide out the bottom and for light through the chamber. I never trust looking once.
[18:04] (niller) sure if it makes you happy to mention a tv personality?
[18:04] (davtek2) i cant believe southpark made national news
[18:04] (davtek2) again
[18:04] (astrodog) Yaakov: For me... it became habit to eject after dropping a magazine.
[18:04] (KaylaKaze) Means how much they're allowed to spend.
[18:04] (nharris) what did southpark do this time?
[18:04] (davtek2) have you discussed it?
[18:05] (astrodog) But, the only handguns I've owned have been glocks.
[18:05] (BillFrugg) davtek2, they have to compete with Aqua Teen Hunger Force
[18:05] (KaylaKaze) Outlays means how much they DID/WILL spend.
[18:05] (davtek2) hahah
[18:05] (niller) so when are the war against Iran starting?
[18:05] (KaylaKaze) You don't add them togehter!
[18:05] (CryHavoc) the only ones niller ever owned were plastic
[18:05] (nharris) I usually agree with Southpark's message 100%
[18:05] (davtek2) nharris..did you see the article?
[18:05] (niller) ?
[18:05] (CryHavoc) Kaylakaze ..lol
[18:05] (KoBushi) south's park message is always just to mock everyone
[18:05] (niller) what plastic?
[18:05] (redfish) nharris is a sheep
[18:05] (Lupine) davtek2: really? where at?
[18:05] (flm) nharris South Park has a message ?
[18:05] (Yaakov) astrodog: Since the Smith has a magazine safety, the gun is safe after the magazine is gone--so that was the logical sequence for sure.
[18:05] (niller) im sorry i dont understnad
[18:05] (BillFrugg) southpark has a message?
[18:06] (davtek2) http://www.worldnetdaily.com/staticarticles/article54939.html
[18:06] (niller) please explain
[18:06] (astrodog) Yaak: Ah.
[18:06] (Lupine) I *LOVED* the mockery of Al Gore in the last one
[18:06] (astrodog) Yeah, the glock will fire sans mag.
[18:06] (CryHavoc) redfish...aye...a species known as Europeanus Sheeplus...
[18:06] (Lupine) Yaakov: it's STILL not safe ;-)
[18:06] (nharris) usually it's along the lines of "don't take yourselves so fucking seriously." a couple of weeks ago it was "don't overreact to the 'n-word.'"
[18:06] (Yaakov) Lupine: I don't treat is as safe, but it can't be fired.
[18:06] (CryHavoc) so used to the government teat and lack of rights...they shuffle like the ones in 1984
[18:06] (Yaakov) Lupine: That's just practical.
[18:06] (Lupine) generally: when SP is about some recent event, it normally is great
[18:06] (_HellMngr) good day sir
[18:06] (flm) Lupine it is not funny to make fun of retards !
[18:06] (niller) so no explaining - just random stupid - typical american? no - but yo u are the worst kind
[18:07] (astrodog) For a glock... the only way its really safe is with the slide removed. :P
[18:07] (CryHavoc) flm...retards...or DDDs?
[18:07] (redfish) nharris i dont watchi t much ive only seen a view episodes. i read a synopsis of that episode where they had to deal with immigrants from the future. the whole logic behind the solution was completely ludicrous and didnt even make sense from a time paradox perspective
[18:07] (Lupine) heh.. i love people who freak out over a cocked/locked 1911.. but think a glock si safe
[18:07] (BillFrugg) LOL - I love the comment from JT Thompson!
[18:07] (CryHavoc) niller I am the worst kind of American?? :)
[18:07] (CryHavoc) C & L .45 is safe
[18:07] (flm) VryHavoc Ok man I learn a lot in here,, What is a DDD ?
[18:07] (nharris) redfish ohhh..that one's an old one.... the "they took our jobs" episode
[18:07] (niller) yes right now you are- offending me
[18:07] (astrodog) Lup: Glocks are either locked and loaded... or disassembled.
[18:07] (astrodog) ;)
[18:08] (CryHavoc) flm...its an actual amusing video from a Comedian...
[18:08] (Yaakov) Lupine: I was just going to say a Glock is like a cocked UNLOCKED 1911.
[18:08] (redfish) nharris the logic for the solution really didnt make sense
[18:08] (CryHavoc) one sec
[18:08] (niller) i hate all equally - wont never hurt nobody
[18:08] (KoBushi) DDD... next size up from DD, sometimes called E
[18:08] (KoBushi) :P
[18:08] (Yaakov) The only saftey on the glock is the brain of the user.
[18:08] (niller) you are just acting bullish
[18:08] (flm) The Tailor is it against the rules to offend anyone or Someone in here ?
[18:08] (niller) just like the russians and the chinese
[18:08] (niller) so fuck you
[18:08] (_HellMngr) Yaakov: That's all the safety you need if you're trained and paying attention.
[18:08] (Yaakov) I am not against the rules.
[18:09] (Yaakov) _HellMngr: It's a nice theory...
[18:09] (TheTailor) niller, I told you to behave once already
[18:09] (nharris) redfish yeah.. the "let's all be gay so we don't have descendants after our jobs" was dumb. They were off on that one :)
[18:09] (niller) ill stop saying fark
[18:09] (flm) Niller now calm down ,, now need to get violent.
[18:09] (astrodog) I like the glock safety system... but you really have to pay attention, when you aren't intending to fire.
[18:09] (Lupine) Yaakov: it's even worse.. at least the 1911 has a grip safety ;-)
[18:09] (CryHavoc) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h0z6vkcY10
[18:09] (CryHavoc) flm...there
[18:09] (niller) ill take a break
[18:09] (TheTailor) flm, offending someone isn't agianst any rule that I know of.
[18:09] (Yaakov) I like the HK M7P8.
[18:10] (TheTailor) flm, see your messages.
[18:10] (Yaakov) CryHavoc: Eh.
[18:10] (Lupine) Yaakov: but, many police agencies refuse to allow 1911 sa they are "unsafe". lol
[18:10] (astrodog) Yaakov: I prefer the 10mm... so my choices are pretty limited.
[18:10] (flm) ThTailor Good,, If it was I better just go ahead and leave .
[18:10] (Yaakov) astrodog: Colt Elite
[18:10] (redfish) nharris was bullied into stripping online by his boyfriend
[18:10] (niller) havic got on my nerves - il come back another day
[18:10] (Lupine) I did not care for the M7P8 I respect its build quality, just do not like the whole squeeze coker
[18:10] (redfish) http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=technologyNews&storyid=2007-03-28T182052Z_01_L28414341_RTRUKOC_0_US-CYBERBULLIES.xml&src=rss&rpc=22
[18:10] (niller) havoc
[18:10] (flm) TheTailor although I don't do it on purpos
[18:10] (CryHavoc) yes??
[18:10] (astrodog) Lup: Given the accuracy of most police shooting... do you really want them to carry only 7 rounds?
[18:10] (astrodog) ;)
[18:11] (CryHavoc) let niller rant...
[18:11] (_HellMngr) yaakov: P7's are too costly.
[18:11] (TheTailor) niller, you have a record of being an asshole, do try to behave.
[18:11] (flm) thanks again Talor
[18:11] (CryHavoc) I have a far wider scope then many americans...
[18:11] (Lupine) If she could get past them shoving nuclear devices inside her, and the huge rear end they portrayed her as decisive, confident and appealing. The irony is that it took a cartoon to make Hillary likeable.
[18:11] (CryHavoc) niller..you have yet to meet a REAL intolernat one
[18:11] (Yaakov) Lupine: It was the best fitting gun I have ever fired and the gas locking was amazing. I had *no* trouble with second shots. I switched from modified Weaver to isocoles because there was no muzzle flip to control.
[18:11] (flm) tailor I did read them and try to conform
[18:11] (_HellMngr) in 10mm, you pretty much have 3 or 4 options. I think there is an old Smith auto. the glock 20, the 2 or so colt lines, and the EAA Witness
[18:11] (CryHavoc) flm..you watching that video??
[18:11] (Lupine) astrodog: um, that is an arguement for only a single shot firearm!
[18:12] (astrodog) Lup: Hahahaha.
[18:12] (astrodog) Or perhaps a triple, to meet SOP?
[18:12] (astrodog) :P
[18:12] (flm) CryHavoc what Video ?? I missed it .
[18:12] (Yaakov) I wanted to buy one, in nickel, but didn't have the money at the time, then they were banned and got very expensive.
[18:12] (Yaakov) Oh well.
[18:12] (CryHavoc) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h0z6vkcY10
[18:12] (Lupine) no, it means if they are missing the target.. they're um, shooting something they should not be.
[18:12] (CryHavoc) there flm
[18:12] (CryHavoc) it fuly explains DDD
[18:12] (astrodog) Lup: Actually
[18:13] (astrodog) Its an argument for the brit system.
[18:13] (nharris) if you are a deeee... don't you marry a deee...
[18:13] (astrodog) No guns for the beat cops.
[18:13] (Yaakov) astrodog: Colt made an odd rotary locking gun, I *think* it was chambered for 10mm.
[18:13] (nharris) beat cops need them the most
[18:13] (Lupine) I sure wish H&K or Sig make a high cap 10mm that can handle the original loading
[18:13] (_HellMngr) here in the US
[18:13] (_HellMngr) where criminals have guns
[18:13] (_HellMngr) it's important for beat cops to have guns and be competently trained in their operation
[18:13] (CryHavoc) nharris...heh no way for them to be BEAT cops
[18:13] (astrodog) Lup/Yaak: I haven't run into a better 10mm than the standard glock, thus far.
[18:13] (Lupine) _HellMngr: you missed the preface
[18:13] (CryHavoc) Except in Vegas.....
[18:14] (nharris) yeah.. even then it's getting risky
[18:14] (Lupine) astrodog: i can't stand glocks at all..
[18:14] (CryHavoc) there..dribble a basketball...get killed
[18:14] (Lupine) totally wrong grip angle, hate the ergo's
[18:14] (CryHavoc) prefers the old .45
[18:14] (astrodog) Lup: I love em. Lemme guess, hate the drip?
[18:14] (nharris) maybe in Branson, MO can a law enforcement officer walk around on foot with just a knightstick
[18:14] (astrodog) *grip
[18:14] (astrodog) Yeah.
[18:14] (CryHavoc) nharris..not even there
[18:14] (astrodog) For some people, it's great.
[18:14] (astrodog) Others hate it.
[18:14] (_HellMngr) I want to get a glock so I can be more familiarw ith it
[18:14] (_HellMngr) i've never been a big glock fan
[18:14] (_HellMngr) but they are very robust
[18:14] (CryHavoc) the very war on drugs they have makes it too dangerous
[18:14] (Lupine) astrodog: its also that it is such a crude design
[18:15] (USmotto) Where does the right to bear arms end? Automatic rifles? RPG's? SAMs? Tanks? Fighter jets? Carriers?
[18:15] (Lupine) they must have GM do their frames
[18:15] (astrodog) Lup: That's one of the reasons I like them. Very easy guns to work with.
[18:15] (CryHavoc) I have a big enough hand to fire a .45 single handed
[18:15] (_HellMngr) you can own fighter jets as a civilian
[18:15] (Lupine) USmotto: legally? Miller V39
[18:15] (_HellMngr) i don't think a civilian has ever had the opportunity to buy a carrier.
[18:15] (CryHavoc) USmotto..it ends when you get to a point your ownership is a danger to others..
[18:15] (_HellMngr) Tanks and APC's are rare to get to the civilian market
[18:15] (astrodog) Lets face it, any gun that fires well after that kinda machine work must have a good design.
[18:15] (astrodog) :P
[18:15] (astrodog) Hell: Actually
[18:15] (USmotto) Philosophically
[18:15] (astrodog) A carrier has been sold to civilians, for use as an amusement park.
[18:15] (_HellMngr) rockets and grenades are cost prohibative.
[18:15] (CryHavoc) anything short of that should be un regulated and legal
[18:16] (_HellMngr) astrodog: cool.
[18:16] (observer) sanjaya is sooo cool, i want his hairstyle!
[18:16] (nharris) hahaha
[18:16] (CryHavoc) John Q can not store an ICBM safely....
[18:16] (nharris) American Idull, like Rap, astounds me with its popularity
[18:16] (davtek2) the ratio of 'officials wif guns' far out number the citizens of DC, where owning a gun is illegal....we have the the district police dept...the secret service...the capitol police...and the metro transit police...yet we still have one of the highest death-by-handgun rates in the country...i like the police and have alot of respect for em...esp when i'm pulled over...however...
[18:16] (CryHavoc) thus by dint of attrition..he can not have that..unless he can store it safely
[18:16] (flm) CryHavoc. LOL great video !
[18:16] (_HellMngr) I think civilians should be allowed to have pretty much whatever
[18:16] (CryHavoc) nharris...hehe Idyll :P
[18:16] (_HellMngr) maybe not a suitcase nuke
[18:16] (nharris) hehehe
[18:16] (_HellMngr) i'd be scared shitless owning one of them
[18:17] (_HellMngr) esp if i did'nt build it myself
[18:17] (astrodog) Civvies with Stingers would be kinda scary.
[18:17] (Lupine) astrodog: i point shoot my new ultra RCP pistol so easily.. even without any sights on it
[18:17] (redfish) cryhavoc thinks we should send jesse jackson to talk with iran
[18:17] (CGI3451) guns, guns, guns. -Robocop
[18:17] (astrodog) Lup: That's how a Glock 20 feels to me... I don't even have to think about aiming, exactly.
[18:17] (davtek2) and al sharpton..dont forget al
[18:17] (astrodog) Hard to explain.
[18:17] (CryHavoc) guns guns guns...Matrix Movies...
[18:17] (Lupine) redfish: I'ld love to see some Iranian rednecks in buraq's and a jacked up truck dragging JJ around Tehran
[18:17] (_HellMngr) Lupine: RCP?
[18:17] (davtek2) we need guns...lots of gun......matrix
[18:17] (davtek2) hahah
[18:17] (CryHavoc) astrodog...no they would not
[18:17] (Lupine) http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/customshop/ultrarcp.php
[18:18] (nharris) hehehe I'd like my future garage to resemble that arsenal that pops up in Matrix
[18:18] (CryHavoc) though it would make for an amusing surprise to a group of thugs in a Lincoln Navigator
[18:18] (CryHavoc) :)
[18:18] (flm) CGI2451 I believe in gun controle, ( If there is a Gun present, I want to be the one controling it )
[18:18] (redfish) cryhavoc aint just whistlin dixie
[18:18] (astrodog) Cry: A Stinger?
[18:18] (CryHavoc) "Gimme da Money....SHIT he has a STINGER!!!!
[18:18] (astrodog) A stinger wouldn't take out an SUV.
[18:18] (astrodog) :P
[18:18] (CryHavoc) errr no??
[18:18] (astrodog) Its an anti-aircraft frag round.
[18:19] (astrodog) Recoilless MANPADS.
[18:19] (Lupine) wonder what the minimum arm distance is
[18:19] (CryHavoc) who says it has to be pointed that direction??
[18:19] (nharris) Morpheus... I know Kung-Fu! "no... keanu..you don't"
[18:19] (astrodog) Cry: The warheads on a Stinger are tiny.
[18:19] (Lupine) probably wouldn't go live before going thru the window
[18:19] (_HellMngr) stingers are guided missiles
[18:19] (CryHavoc) still would have impact..and punch a nice hole...
[18:19] (_HellMngr) and would'nt work on an SUV
[18:19] (astrodog) And they'd tend to miss an SUV, as they'd lock onto a heat source, that was hotter.
[18:19] (_HellMngr) you want an RPG-7 for SUV's
[18:19] (CryHavoc) heh
[18:19] (_HellMngr) or LAW's or AT4's or whatever
[18:19] (_HellMngr) a javelin would work
[18:20] (astrodog) Cry: You want TOW/LAW/AT4/etc.
[18:20] (Lupine) CryHavoc: the stinger explodes prior to impact.. into basically buckshot
[18:20] (CryHavoc) well..I do not see any prob with a civilian owning a Stinger array...
[18:20] (astrodog) Stingers are only useful against aircraft.
[18:20] (_HellMngr) stingers are shoulder fired.
[18:20] (Yaakov) Lupine, astrodog
[18:20] (astrodog) Cry: Array? Its a MANPADS.
[18:20] (CryHavoc) now..can they do so WHILE not endangering others??
[18:20] (Yaakov) This is a great page, if you don't know it: http://www.gunsworld.com/exploded_us.htm
[18:20] (davtek2) best thing about The Matrix....Keana had few lines....'woo!'
[18:20] (flm) Lupine I like Buck Shot ,
[18:20] (CryHavoc) that astro...is the kicker
[18:20] (davtek2) now thats acting
[18:20] (Lupine) Yaakov: yep
[18:20] (nharris) the redubbed matrix with fart noises was better
[18:21] (_HellMngr) i like how some insurgent groups have started using air power.
[18:21] (astrodog) Cry: No. You cannot safely fire a Stinger, without risking hitting other air traffic.
[18:21] (CryHavoc) stupidest thing about the matrix...the first one....Stupid pointless gun battle at the end...
[18:21] (_HellMngr) not in the islamic world, but in sri-lanka.
[18:21] (nharris) tamils got planes? :)
[18:21] (_HellMngr) yes
[18:21] (CryHavoc) astrodog...therefore it is not something a civilian should be allowed to have :)
[18:21] (_HellMngr) they rigged up some prop planes with bombs
[18:21] (_HellMngr) and bombed an air field
[18:21] (CryHavoc) see how easy that is?
[18:21] (Lupine) Yaakov: the easiest gun I have for a TOTAL strip down, is my SAA peacemaker replica
[18:21] (davtek2) naw..it was a showcase for a new style of photography....bullet actions as it was called
[18:21] (CryHavoc) that is how US gun laws should be
[18:21] (Lupine) Yaakov: less than 60 secs for EVERYTHING part
[18:22] (Lupine) davtek2: bullet time
[18:22] (Yaakov) Darnit! What was the name of that rotary locking Colt?!
[18:22] (nharris) now we gotta watch out for clumsily flying cessnas
[18:22] (davtek2) yea
[18:22] (davtek2) time
[18:22] (davtek2) sorry
[18:22] (astrodog) Lup: You can take a Glock down about that quickly.
[18:22] (CryHavoc) yes...an RPG excellent takeout weapon for an SUV full of thugs..
[18:22] (n00b927) testing
[18:22] * davtek2 sits down and shuts up
[18:22] (CGI3451) ok, boring.
[18:22] (astrodog) Once you pull the slide, the gun falls apart in your hands.
[18:22] (astrodog) :P_
[18:22] (CryHavoc) the ones left alive would probably become religious
[18:22] (CGI3451) zz
[18:22] (CryHavoc) hey davtek :)
[18:22] (Yaakov) Lupine: My 5906 field strips easily but you don't want to mess with the trigger group without a bench.
[18:22] (Lupine) Yaakov: You referring to the south american that looks like a 1911?
[18:22] (n00b927) onetwo
[18:22] * davtek2 wavs
[18:23] (Lupine) astrodog: i do not mean field stripe.. i mean EVERYTHING
[18:23] * CryHavoc adds some Davtek2 to a .45......hehehe
[18:23] (astrodog) Lup: Yeah.
[18:23] (astrodog) The glock splits, without the slide.
[18:23] (Yaakov) No, this was a 90's design. It used a rotary lock and *maybe* some polymer.
[18:23] * CryHavoc now has a .45 but which IS a laser
[18:23] (astrodog) Everything comes out quite quickly.
[18:23] (flm) CryHavoc,, you don't believe citizans should own guns for self defence and Home defence and Now care defence ??
[18:23] (Yaakov) I think it was chambered for 10mm.
[18:23] (CryHavoc) flm...on the contrary...
[18:23] * davtek2 bends over backwards, dodging the slings and arrows
[18:23] (n00b927) weapon chat
[18:24] (CryHavoc) anything a civilian can safely use without endangering others..should be over the counter legal..
[18:24] (astrodog) I'm looking at getting one of the Glock 10mm subcompacts.
[18:24] (CryHavoc) no registration
[18:24] (flm) CryHavoc ok I wasn't sure what you were talking about .
[18:24] (davtek2) et tu cry?
[18:24] (n00b927) approprate considering congresses actioons
[18:24] (astrodog) I've never fired anything else that handles 10mm as well as a Glock.
[18:24] (_HellMngr) the colt 2000?
[18:24] (CryHavoc) flm...I am the EXACT opposite of the handgun banning group :)
[18:24] (_HellMngr) the colt 2000 was a rotary poly framed colt
[18:24] (_HellMngr) rotary locking even
[18:24] (davtek2) i use to own a browning 360 auto...
[18:24] (flm) CryHavoc good,, Me too
[18:24] (CryHavoc) I even am more extreme about it then the GOP supporters in here
[18:24] (redfish) cryhavoc has a bookshelf full of Seal CDs
[18:25] (Lupine) astrodog: http://www.parts.cc/glock/disassembly/Disassembly1.htm
[18:25] (_HellMngr) yaakov: I've actually fired that funky ass colt 2000
[18:25] (CryHavoc) if I want a fucking machine gun...I should be allowed to buy one...no reg...no stupid license..
[18:25] (davtek2) gave it up....along with the sawed of shotgun....something like a 812 i think
[18:25] (davtek2) back in my biker days
[18:25] (davtek2) off
[18:25] (CryHavoc) if I want a box of frag grenades....
[18:25] (_HellMngr) astrodog: try the colt 10mm 1911's or the EAA?
[18:25] (Yaakov) _HellMngr: Yes, that's it. But somehow I didn't think it was.
[18:25] (Yaakov) But it is.
[18:25] (CryHavoc) now..if I decide I am gonna renovate my neighbors house with them......
[18:25] (astrodog) Hell: The 1911 10mms are nasty to fire.
[18:26] (astrodog) Haven't tried the EAA.
[18:26] (flm) cryHavoc,, You are scaring me .
[18:26] (CryHavoc) astro...nasty??
[18:26] (astrodog) Cry: Unpleasant to fire.
[18:26] (CryHavoc) flm...why be scared??
[18:26] (Yaakov) But it is only in 9mm.
[18:26] (_HellMngr) yaakov: it's only in 9mm, i think. I also hated it with a passion
[18:26] (CryHavoc) am I NRA? Nope...
[18:26] (_HellMngr) yaakov: worst. trigger. ever.
[18:26] (redfish) why is archive.org missing 1/2 the images on webpages in its archive.. what does it only download half of them?
[18:26] (redfish) isnt that weird
[18:26] (_HellMngr) but kinda accurate
[18:26] (astrodog) red: archive.org doesn't generally cache images.
[18:26] (CryHavoc) but the government should butt out of ANY gun registration...
[18:26] (Yaakov) http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg170-e.htm
[18:26] (davtek2) was showing a biker friend the mag and pistol...wif ammo...he loaded the damn thing with full mag...and chambered round...didnt bother to tell me....
[18:26] (flm) CryHavoc,, I might be your neighbor, The one that plays loud music all the time.
[18:26] (Lupine) eh? 10mm 1911 isn't anything compared to a .44magnum
[18:27] (CryHavoc) unless the criminals are going to register their stolen ones first
[18:27] (astrodog) Lup: A 10mm glock shoots like a 9mm.
[18:27] (CryHavoc) flm....that does not bother me
[18:27] (Lupine) which ammo are you using astro?
[18:27] (flm) CryHavoc, Good.
[18:27] (Lupine) most commerical 10mm is seriously detuned :-/
[18:27] (nharris) alright.. gotta get some studying done..then dinnage
[18:27] (Yaakov) Heh, it is a Stoner design. Figures. It is like an M16 pistol.
[18:27] (CryHavoc) my statement was an example of my potential action endangering another...at that point..and ONLY at that point should it be called illegal
[18:28] (_HellMngr) i hated the colt 2000
[18:28] (flm) Lupine How does one Detrune a hand gun ?
[18:28] (_HellMngr) it's 'novel', but it's a pretty shit weapon over all
[18:28] (flm) Detune
[18:28] (CryHavoc) until I take that action, no recrimination
[18:28] (_HellMngr) flm: he means the loads are light.
[18:28] (Yaakov) _HellMngr: I handled one but never fired one.
[18:28] (_HellMngr) flm: they don't have full spec powder charges.
[18:28] (astrodog) Lup: Now that I finally replaced that gun, its loaded with Hydrashock(sp) atm. I generally fire cheapo iron ball stuff at the range.
[18:28] (_HellMngr) yaakov: did you pull it's nightmarish trigger?
[18:28] (Yaakov) _HellMngr: It was DAO and on principle I don't like that.
[18:28] (Yaakov) I can't recall it.
[18:28] (_HellMngr) yaakov: not just DAO, but a really really bad DAO.
[18:29] (Yaakov) But then, I wasn't going to buy it so...
[18:29] (Yaakov) :)
[18:29] (_HellMngr) i rented it
[18:29] (_HellMngr) i went 'OO WHAT IS THAT?'
[18:29] (astrodog) DAO? Disk-At-Once? (CD Burning)
[18:29] (_HellMngr) Double Action Only
[18:29] (astrodog) Ah.
[18:29] (_HellMngr) not single action like glocks
[18:29] (_HellMngr) or xd's
[18:29] (_HellMngr) or 1911's
[18:31] (astrodog) Bleh
[18:31] (Yaakov) Or, double action on the first shot like my 5906.
[18:31] (Lupine) astrodog: Heh. No wonder why you think its like a 9mm. The Hydrosock 180 10mm is only 424 ft-lbs. True 10mm 180gr loading is 676ft-lbs
[18:31] (_HellMngr) DA/SA
[18:31] (Yaakov) DA/SA wasthenorm.
[18:31] (_HellMngr) 5906's are cheap this week
[18:31] (Yaakov) I bought mine new.
[18:31] (Yaakov) I did a lot of work on it, too.
[18:32] (Lupine) astrodog: my 9mm ammo is 512ft-lbs
[18:32] (_HellMngr) is it pretty good?
[18:32] (astrodog) Lup: I load that intentionally, for when the gun is at my apartment.
[18:32] (Lupine) http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_25&products_id=36&osCsid=6d99635904b6ad0483a54e6bf30d5bb8
[18:32] (Lupine) for factory ammo, that's what you want ;-)
[18:32] (astrodog) On the chance that I miss... I don't want to shoot my damn neighboors.
[18:33] (astrodog) Lup: Never shoot reloads in a Glock. ;)
[18:33] (Lupine) um, that's factory ammo
[18:33] (_HellMngr) never shoot lead in a glock
[18:33] (Lupine) to 10mm standard pressure
[18:33] (_HellMngr) i don't see why you would'nt shoot good reloads.
[18:33] (flm) AstroDogs Why ?
[18:33] (Yaakov) I like it. My 2 + 1's go where they should and I made it easier to carry. I reduced the slide lock profile and checkered the top and I removed almost all the right hand saftey lever.
[18:33] (Lupine) most commercial 10mm is loaded way UNDER standard pressure
[18:33] (_HellMngr) it voids the warranty, but all guns have a 'no reloads' warranty clause.
[18:33] (astrodog) flm: Glocks don't play nice with reloads.
[18:33] (flm) Astrodog, i thouhgt Glocks could handle anything ??
[18:34] (Yaakov) I polished everything inside: ramp breech block, trigger.
[18:34] (astrodog) flm: They're fire it... but eventually, you'll cause a pretty catastrophic failure.
[18:34] (Yaakov) Didn't touch the sear.
[18:34] (Lupine) heh. don't fire lead
[18:34] (_HellMngr) flm: glocks can't handle non-jacketed bullets. but everything else is fine as long as its loaded to spec.
[18:34] (Lupine) all lead out of a flock
[18:34] (Lupine) _HellMngr: yea.. trade off of the hexagon rifling
[18:34] (_HellMngr) i'm sure you can get a barsto or something if you want to shoot lead out of it.
[18:35] (flm) HellMngr,, Is that because the led gets jamed on tha ramp ?
[18:35] (_HellMngr) no it's because of the type of rifling used in the barrel
[18:35] (_HellMngr) USP's, Glocks, IMI/IWI Eagles all use polygonal rifling
[18:35] (_HellMngr) there are a couple of other pistols that do as well
[18:35] (astrodog) You can fire lead... but you'll need to clean things all the damn time. ;)
[18:35] (_HellMngr) but i could'nt name them
[18:36] (_HellMngr) people only shoot lead for two reasons
[18:36] (astrodog) Lup: I load the Hydrashock precisely because its an underpowered 10mm load.
[18:36] (_HellMngr) cost and competition
[18:37] (tnzr) are Black Talons lead?
[18:37] (_HellMngr) black talons are jhp
[18:37] (_HellMngr) jacked hollow point
[18:37] (_HellMngr) frangible
[18:37] (Yaakov) Black Talons are jacketed in gilding metal.
[18:37] (tnzr) does that mean "more deadly"?
[18:37] (Yaakov) Like a cartridge case.
[18:37] (_HellMngr) not really more so than any other jacketed hollow point.
[18:37] (tnzr) in other words, should I use those or hydrashocks to kill more effectively?
[18:37] (Lupine) ironically, JHP often proves to be less deadly than FMJ
[18:37] (tnzr) or is it the same effect?
[18:38] (_HellMngr) you're less interested in 'killing' than 'stopping'
[18:38] (CGI225) #gun_nutz
[18:38] (_HellMngr) FMJ punchs holes.
[18:38] (tnzr) yeah
[18:38] (tnzr) I dont really want to kill anyone
[18:38] (tnzr) per se
[18:38] (Lupine) the difference between quality loads is really academic to shot placement
[18:38] (_HellMngr) JHP's expand
[18:38] (_HellMngr) yes
[18:38] (_HellMngr) shot placement is the key
[18:38] (CGI225) ok, well, guess you ran out of real topics. night.
[18:38] (Yaakov) _HellMngr: Black Talon *is* more likely to kill someone. It has no more stopping power but it does a lot more soft tissue damage.
[18:38] (_HellMngr) because of the 'talons'
[18:38] (astrodog) Lup: I use underpowered loads, becase in an apartment, penetration is bad.
[18:38] (astrodog) ;)
[18:38] (_HellMngr) it's too costly.
[18:39] (_HellMngr) i guess ranger isn't that much more expensive than corbon
[18:39] (Yaakov) Harsen: It uses a precut jacket with points on it. It cuts up the target.
[18:39] (Lupine) Yaakov: bah.. wound channels on the more modern JHP is better
[18:39] (_HellMngr) I use DPX
[18:39] (_HellMngr) but i've never shot anybody
[18:39] (_HellMngr) so it's all academic
[18:39] (Yaakov) Lupine: Black Talon causes considerably more bleeding.
[18:39] (td) its guns night
[18:39] (td) sweet
[18:39] (_HellMngr) We don't call it black talon anymore anyway
[18:39] (_HellMngr) because they are not black anymore.
[18:40] (_HellMngr) too much bad PR
[18:40] (ishimi) aloha
[18:40] (td) i use copkillers
[18:40] (tnzr) haha
[18:40] (_HellMngr) TEFLON COATED YO
[18:40] (Yaakov) I load my carry guns with Golden Saber. Largely because of the flash suppressants.
[18:40] (_HellMngr) I have some AP 9mm
[18:40] (JupaSaur) [21:38] (PogoDrake) karl rove is up on larry king on cnn tv after the current commercia. this should be good.
[18:40] (Lupine) Yaakov: Just about all modern JHP spread out into pedals upon impact
[18:40] (astrodog) Yaakov: I never carry... just have it in my apt...
[18:40] (tnzr) Yaakov: what guns do you use for concealed carry?
[18:40] (astrodog) I would greatly prefer it, to the Rem 700 for self defense. :P
[18:41] (Yaakov) Lupine: But BT has POINTS.
[18:41] (flm) CryHavoc,, You have a very good point about gun ownership, Why did our founders put gun ownership in the amendments ?? To hunt ? to protect againns street thugs ? or to protect our selves against an unjust government ?
[18:41] (Yaakov) tnzr: I have a S&W 5906 and a Colt Detective Special.
[18:41] (astrodog) Though
[18:41] (td) he should change his name to Carl Rove, whats this K shit, thats just unamerican
[18:41] (_HellMngr) flm: to protect ourselves against an unjust government and anybody whow ould do us harm
[18:41] (Lupine) Yaakov: you do realize that the Ranger SXT is simply the same bullet, not colored black?
[18:41] (astrodog) 7.62 would certainly stop someone...
[18:41] (_HellMngr) or wish to deprive us of life or property without due process of law.
[18:41] (tnzr) too bad we would never be able to fight the govt.
[18:41] (flm) HellMngr ^5
[18:42] (n00b740) testing
[18:42] (Yaakov) Lupine: I haven't bought any ammunition in a while but last I knew they had pulled the bullet design due to bad PR.
[18:42] (_HellMngr) tnzr: We could fight the governent, but only if we had a valid reason.
[18:42] (Lupine) Yaakov: naw. new color, new name
[18:42] (Yaakov) Lupine: However, my backup magazine is BT.
[18:42] (_HellMngr) it was just a rebranding to something less 'evil' sounding
[18:43] (_HellMngr) those rounds have to be at least 10 years old.
[18:43] (tnzr) Hell: would they be using the military?
[18:43] (_HellMngr) tnzr: not legally
[18:43] (ishimi) the situation was different for the forefathers... almost like applying the bible to our modern day life
[18:43] (Yaakov) Yes, they are. Last time I fired some (about 2 years ago) they went bang.
[18:43] (_HellMngr) tnzr: Can't deploy the military against your own people.
[18:43] (tnzr) _HellMngr: interesting... what about something like FEMA or some other govt. organization that could act as an armed force
[18:43] (Lupine) I have surplus WWI .45acp ammo. they still go bang
[18:43] (tnzr) _HellMngr: thats good to know :)
[18:43] (Lupine) they were stored properly in sealed tins
[18:43] (_HellMngr) tnzr: To do what?
[18:44] (_HellMngr) tnzr: they were lucky they did'nt get shot up when they tried confiscating guns in NOLA.
[18:44] (Yaakov) I am not too worried about age. The Golden Saber are waterproof, another nice thing.
[18:44] (_HellMngr) tnzr: that would have been valid resistance.
[18:44] (JupaSaur) fema cannot even act correctly as a farce let alone an armed force
[18:44] (tnzr) _HellMngr: I heard things about very ugly, violent scenarios in NOLA
[18:44] (_HellMngr) tnzr: but not law abiding citizens vs. the police
[18:45] (tnzr) _HellMngr: that makes sense though.. I always imagined that to use your guns against the unjust govt. youd be using them against the military
[18:45] (_3Josephs) In what could be the most embarrassing exploit to impact Windows Vista since its launch, McAfee's Avert Labs confirmed today that the OS can be caused to enter a crash-restart-crash loop by a malformed animated cursor file.
[18:45] (_HellMngr) tnzr: I highly doubt the military would be very willing to be deployed against its own people.
[18:45] (_HellMngr) tnzr: it's against the law, and would immediately validate any opposition to it.
[18:45] (astrodog) 3Jo: Hahahahaha.
[18:45] (astrodog) Go FreeBSD Desktop Go!
[18:46] (tnzr) _HellMngr: what about in a martial law scenario.. how could the people resist something like that?
[18:46] (n00b740) no freedom for the civilians means no freedom for the military too
[18:46] (_HellMngr) tnzr: It would have to be national guard and state guard.
[18:46] (_HellMngr) tnzr: could not be active duty or reserve military.
[18:46] (tnzr) ahh
[18:46] (tnzr) cool
[18:46] (tnzr) I should have joined the army as a youngin
[18:47] (_HellMngr) tnzr: and nobody wants to shoot their cousin
[18:47] (_HellMngr) tnzr: yeah i think the same thing. i'm still young enough but i can't afford it.
[18:47] (tnzr) _HellMngr: yeah :)
[18:47] (tnzr) _HellMngr: how old? and what's to afford?
[18:47] (_HellMngr) tnzr: 25, and I have bills to pay
[18:47] (tnzr) ahh
[18:47] (tnzr) I saw a sweet show in PBS about the marines
[18:48] (_HellMngr) i could retire at 55 if i joined today.
[18:48] (_HellMngr) that would'nt be such a bad gig.
[18:48] (_HellMngr) 45 actually after 20 years
[18:48] (tnzr) _HellMngr: do you ahve a degree?
[18:48] (tnzr) I wouldnt want to join without one
[18:48] (_HellMngr) no
[18:48] (tnzr) I wouldnt want to be a rank & file grunt, i would go insane
[18:48] (_HellMngr) You can get a direct commission if you're THAT good, but it's very difficult. and they will send you to school as well
[18:49] (tnzr) how do you prove that you are taht good?
[18:49] (tnzr) how does the cream rise to the top, so to speak
[18:49] (_HellMngr) tnzr: it's different in each branch
[18:49] (_HellMngr) tnzr: i doubt there has been a non-degreed person earn a commission in the last 20 years.
[18:49] (td) they give you 100K cash and if you can spend it and not get anything to show for it, your hired!
[18:49] (tnzr) damn
[18:50] (tnzr) i would love to learn to fly
[18:50] (_HellMngr) i think the last ones were by presidential order.
[18:50] (tnzr) choppers or planes/jets, but I bet thats so competitive
[18:50] (td) lets join the iranian navy
[18:50] (_HellMngr) it is competative
[18:50] (_HellMngr) but if you are competent
[18:50] (td) they got the best tactics
[18:51] (TheTailor) tnzr, were you in the service?
[18:51] (tnzr) TheTailor: nah.. was just talking about how I should have joined when I was younger
[18:52] (tnzr) there is a helicopter training school nearby where I live.. i was thinking of going there, but its $80K for a 18mo. program
[18:52] (_HellMngr) that's not too bad
[18:52] (tnzr) but apparently loads of pilots are retiring (lots of old 'Nam guys) so they are experiencing a shortage
[18:53] (_HellMngr) army is the best place to learn to be a helicopter pilot
[18:53] (_HellMngr) you get to be a warrant officer.
[18:53] (_HellMngr) the pay is not as bad as it could be
[18:53] (tnzr) so they need more pilots, which is a good thing for someone like me I guess.. to get a real job though you have to have 1000hrs, and I think when yo ugraduate you only have 100-200 or so.. but they hire you right out of school and you instruct for a year where you get the rest of your hours
[18:53] (tnzr) _HellMngr: what is the signifcance of a warrant officer?
[18:54] (_HellMngr) warrant officers do certain things like be helicopter pilots
[18:54] (_HellMngr) it's an enlisted rank.
[18:54] (_HellMngr) not a commissioned rank.
[18:54] (TheTailor) No it's not
[18:54] (_HellMngr) its not?
[18:54] (TheTailor) No
[18:55] (KoBushi) my uncle was a CWO4 in the Navy
[18:55] (TheTailor) Warrants are technicians mostly
[18:55] (KoBushi) he could effectivly call rank on most ships he was on
[18:55] (TheTailor) Now there are the pilots
[18:55] (_HellMngr) I guess CWO2 is a commissioned rank
[18:56] (TheTailor) CW4, CSM's and Generals are the 3 people you do not fuck with in the Army
[18:56] (TheTailor) Now they have a CW5
[18:56] (TheTailor) it's not CWO2
[18:56] (TheTailor) It's CW2
[18:56] (TheTailor) CWO is the lowest grade of warrant officer
[18:56] (astrodog) TT: Good news!
[18:56] (JupaSaur) csm or cms?
[18:56] (astrodog) My step-dad just made chief. :)
[18:56] (tnzr) learning to fly in the military seems fun
[18:57] (TheTailor) CSM is Command Seargent Major
[18:57] (tnzr) the actual flying part seems dangerous
[18:57] (JupaSaur) ok
[18:57] (_HellMngr) CSM's are E8 or E9?
[18:57] (TheTailor) E9
[18:57] (_HellMngr) the CSM in iraq is the seniormost enlisted man in the army today
[18:57] (_HellMngr) CSM Mellinger, i believer.
[18:57] (astrodog) Hell: Like a MCPN.
[18:57] (TheTailor) SGM's are E9 too
[18:57] (TheTailor) One is in command
[18:58] (tnzr) didn't a (some?) CSM die in that chopper crash recently?
[18:58] (astrodog) Rather, CMCPN.
[18:58] (_HellMngr) what is a CMCPN?
[18:58] (astrodog) Command Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy. CMCPON. My mistake.
[18:58] (TheTailor) _HellMngr, well no, that would be the CSM of the Army, he's in Washington
[19:00] (_HellMngr) there are a lot of CSM's
[19:01] (TheTailor) Yeah they are all over, but there's only one with two stars, he's in Washington.
[19:04] (Kaliuna) hmm no topic?
[19:04] (JupaSaur) none here either
[19:05] (Kaliuna) no one chatting or just quiet at the moment?
[19:05] (JupaSaur) just a pause
[19:05] (Kaliuna) ahh then I can grab a soda
[19:05] (BillFrugg) everyone's letting the blood pressure drop, and relax the vocal cords from all the shouting
[19:06] (JupaSaur) yah
[19:06] (BillFrugg) that, and refuel the flamethrowers
[19:06] (JupaSaur) yah
[19:06] (KoBushi) Persuit of Happiness is a good movie
[19:06] (TheTailor) hmm, no topic
[19:06] (BillFrugg) It looks good to me, KoBushi. Haven't watched it yet, but will this weekend
[19:06] (KoBushi) BillFrugg it's worthwhile
[19:06] (Kaliuna) TT - the absence of one is quite startling
[19:07] (KoBushi) BillFrugg should be mandatory for everyone on welfare :P
[19:07] (BillFrugg) hehe
[19:07] (TheTailor) Kaliuna, FT was probably going to post one and got interupted
[19:07] (BillFrugg) it looked uplifting
[19:07] (Kaliuna) TT -- very possible but you could post one...
[19:07] (KoBushi) not so much uplifting as... motivational
[19:07] (BillFrugg) it's not often that a trailer will entice me to buy the dvd
[19:08] (TheTailor) I can't.
[19:08] (Kaliuna) TT you can't to /topic hmmm odd
[19:08] (Kaliuna) ok -
[19:08] (BillFrugg) Topic: Iran mistreats British Navy, but people can only find criticism of US
[19:08] (TheTailor) haha, but I have one in mind that would be good
[19:09] (Kaliuna) 65 tornadoes swept through six states...
[19:09] (Kaliuna) TT :)
[19:09] (observer) bill: :)
[19:10] (davtek2) omg...they are doing a repeat of the hillary nuke southpark show ...
[19:10] (davtek2) its on now
[19:10] (davtek2) for those of you wanting to know
[19:10] (Kaliuna) Dems are looking for a showdown... we gonna duke it out or six guns? or
[19:10] (Kaliuna) ya hillary with a nuke bomb hidden inside -- ya ya southpark...
[19:10] (BillFrugg) oh no! Gore the favorite for Nobel peace prize -- http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/3/29/215158.shtml?s=br
[19:11] (BillFrugg) Snuck a snuke up Hillary's snizz
[19:11] (Kaliuna) BillFrugg well carter got one too didn't he -- go figure
[19:11] (davtek2) i want to dl that ringtone
[19:11] (BillFrugg) peace prize or snuke?
[19:12] (BillFrugg) ;)
[19:12] (davtek2) snow smor snukes
[19:12] (davtek2) snow smor snukes
[19:12] (BillFrugg) can you repeat that, davtek2?
[19:13] (davtek2) i'm chanting
[19:13] (davtek2) gawd damit
[19:13] (underling) Dem showdown is no match for my leet kung fu skills
[19:13] (davtek2) hey...bill...your a great straight man
[19:14] (BillFrugg) I'm still rooting for Limbaugh to get the prize
[19:14] (Kaliuna) Bill yaaaaa
[19:14] (underling) same here
[19:14] (BillFrugg) Let's see... Now, Who's on first, what's on second, I don't know is on third...
[19:15] (underling) brb
[19:15] (davtek2) say goodnite dic
[19:15] (BillFrugg) "Toennessen said he did not believe Gore, in Norway to promote a book in his third visit to the Nordic nation in a year, was overtly campaigning for the award. Lobbying is widely frowned upon." -- Yeah, right!
[19:15] (BillFrugg) goodnight, dick
[19:15] (davtek2) :|
[19:15] (davtek2) see
[19:16] (BillFrugg) ...In downtown beautiful Burbank!
[19:16] (davtek2) omg...goldie hawn...use to dance at the goodguys in dc
[19:16] (davtek2) being a xbiker..i know this stuff
[19:16] (Harsen) Dear Iran: We are concerned about your decision to kidnap 15 members of another country. Signed, the UN, P.S. - We are a paper tiger
[19:17] (davtek2) my xwife use to bragg about her all time
[19:17] (davtek2) and wanted to be...painted
[19:17] (davtek2) hahah
[19:17] (Kaliuna) lol Harsen
[19:17] (Harsen) The UN isn't even a paper tiger
[19:17] (Harsen) Its like a paper ferret.
[19:18] * BillFrugg awards the fickle finger of fate award to davtek2
[19:18] (davtek2) she's from tacoma park md...just across the dc line
[19:18] (davtek2) google that
[19:18] (BillFrugg) bad news, davtek2... she still wants to be painted...
[19:18] (redfish) at least i dont run a dakota fanning fansite, like billfrugg
[19:18] (Kaliuna) and showing captives on TV -- thats a NO NO as well...
[19:19] (davtek2) and re-ulpostered
[19:19] (Kaliuna) time for the UN to get tough -- oops did I say that... hmm here we go again
[19:19] (US-Male) (Washington, AP) DNC Chairman Howard Dean announced on Thursday a 'strategic alliance' with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
[19:19] (BillFrugg) Kaliuna -- ROTFLMAO
[19:19] (_3Josephs) or the Pickle Pinger op Pate (if you watched LaughIn)
[19:19] (TheTailor) hahaha
[19:19] (US-Male) =)
[19:19] (BillFrugg) Democrats nominate Ahmadinejad for President of the USA
[19:19] (US-Male) ok I made that up, but it's palusible right??
[19:19] (US-Male) plausible
[19:20] (Kaliuna) US -- more like Pelosi and Murtha
[19:20] (davtek2) ok....the time limit is up on the time i've given iran to let the brits go
[19:20] (TheTailor) It was a double take for me
[19:20] (davtek2) done
[19:20] (US-Male) haha
[19:20] (BillFrugg) US-Male, I'm not convinced that it's a fake headline!
[19:20] (US-Male) yeah maybe he did !
[19:20] (BillFrugg) Yeaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!
[19:22] (davtek2) infact...they actually made tony publicly and falsely admit that his guys were 1.7 miles in iranian waters....but he did infer that this admission was just to appease the iranian goverment and allow the release under 'other than' hightened conditions
[19:22] (BillFrugg) watch and learn.... you can't appease them
[19:22] (rond) [21:15] (+Harsen) Its like a paper ferret. (--- Wife and I are lol
[19:22] (davtek2) did'nt i day that 3 days ago
[19:22] (davtek2) just wait
[19:23] (BillFrugg) maybe Ahmuhdinnasbad will get a paper cut from it
[19:23] (Kaliuna) GPS clearly shows they were in Iraqi waters... and how they gonna claim otherwise?
[19:23] (davtek2) papercut delivered
[19:23] (_HellMngr) Dinnerjacket needs to release the brits and shut down the rhetoric
[19:23] * davtek2 hears the theme to 24 in the background
[19:23] (BillFrugg) if they claim the area, it's disputed territory
[19:23] (davtek2) oh...thats southpark
[19:24] (davtek2) whew
[19:24] (davtek2) no
[19:24] (davtek2) its in no way disputed
[19:24] (davtek2) defined lines of engaugement
[19:24] (BillFrugg) not by us
[19:24] (davtek2) please
[19:24] (CryHavoc) doo doo dee dee
[19:24] (davtek2) oh yea...
[19:25] (CryHavoc) Kaliuna...no factual data is allowed :P
[19:25] (Kaliuna) Cry -- unuh
[19:25] (CryHavoc) Bushdidit!!!!
[19:25] (CryHavoc) :P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[19:25] (BillFrugg) yeah! don't confuse people with facts
[19:25] * CryHavoc davtek2 subvocally whispers The CIA and The Elders of Zion are hiding space aliens in Las Vegas. Thus, not only will the US Dollar be replaced by the Euro, but also that the CDC created the AIDS Virus. **(( Konspiracy Kreator 1.1 ))**
[19:25] (rond) "Water of Love, Deep in the ground"
[19:25] (davtek2) you dont think lines were drawn during the UN"s No Fly Zones between neighboring countries and Iraq?
[19:25] (davtek2) your not well thougth out bill
[19:26] (CryHavoc) Ahmadinejad had a flashback...
[19:26] (CryHavoc) he thinks its 1979...and he needed some hostages
[19:26] (US-Male) "CHICAGO - Civil rights leader Jesse Jackson said Thursday he's backing Democrat Barack Obama (news, bio, voting record) in his presidential bid, giving his support to a new generation of black politicians. "He has my vote," the Rev. Jackson told The Associated Press in a telephone interview."
[19:26] (CryHavoc) ToolBar!!!!
[19:26] (BillFrugg) we need a Reagan to step in again
[19:26] (tnzr) yeah.. a USS Reagan!
[19:26] (davtek2) now i remember why i stopped trying to relate to you ppl yrs ago
[19:26] (CryHavoc) US-Male, Obama needs to say "Go back Hillary!"
[19:26] (US-Male) Obama getting blacker - film at 11:00
[19:26] (davtek2) by
[19:26] (Twobar) CryHavoc 's real actual name is Bevin Dusky. He is from San Francisco
[19:26] (BillFrugg) hehe
[19:26] (CryHavoc) night
[19:27] (Twobar) is that the perfect homo name or what ?
[19:27] (Kaliuna) FACTS ladies and gentlemen - GPS says they were in Iraqi waters --
[19:27] (BillFrugg) sharpton will be upset
[19:27] (CryHavoc) AC Ronald Reagan sails around aimlessly, looking for its escort
[19:27] (TheTailor) Twobar models Depends
[19:27] (US-Male) Kaliuna: Zionist GPS data
[19:27] (Kaliuna) US -- lol
[19:27] (US-Male) =)
[19:27] (Twobar) theTailor models assless chaps with built-in merkin
[19:28] (CryHavoc) Twobar's real name is Leif Behinder. He is wherever Democrats gather
[19:28] (Twobar) hahaha
[19:28] (tnzr) you guys need to learn the facts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LikgKwsbUuM
[19:28] (Twobar) yep. that guy is DEFINITELY wherever democrats gather
[19:28] * tnzr chuckles
[19:28] (TheTailor) Facts about what?
[19:28] (CryHavoc) facts? Regarding what??
[19:28] (US-Male) oh no, 'the facts' are on youtube now?
[19:28] (tnzr) 9/11, Iran!
[19:28] (CryHavoc) Twobar seekes Leif Behind
[19:28] (tnzr) US-Male: you are going to love this
[19:28] (US-Male) no wonder I couldn't fine them
[19:28] (Kaliuna) tnzr -- a UTUBE mess -- gotcha not
[19:28] (tnzr) gohead, click on that shit
[19:29] (CryHavoc) Youtube is now linked to Wikipedia
[19:29] (Kaliuna) no way
[19:29] (tnzr) haha come on
[19:29] (Twobar) you know, the facts. Like on underground.democrat.com and youtube
[19:29] (Kaliuna) Cry - you mean it wasn't before now?
[19:29] (tnzr) someone click it for fux sakes so I can laugh
[19:29] (CryHavoc) Wikitube
[19:29] (US-Male) oh Rosie-facts
[19:29] (Kaliuna) tnzr -- no
[19:29] (tnzr) bah youre no fun.
[19:29] (CryHavoc) Kaliuna..it is now offically linked...so dotards can get vid backup to a fucked up Wiki Citation
[19:29] (tnzr) its The View talking about 9/11 & Iran
[19:29] (CryHavoc) US-Male likes HillaryFax
[19:30] (TheTailor) tnzr, that's the last thing I want to see.
[19:30] (Twobar) well, probably the only ones who didn't know that the democrats would give us a monster tax hike as soon as they could were....democrats
[19:30] (US-Male) Rosie is so retarded. lol
[19:30] (CryHavoc) tnzr...summarize...what are the facts??
[19:30] (tnzr) TheTailor: yeah :)
[19:30] (CryHavoc) lemme guess...
[19:30] (Twobar) we TOLD you guys they would
[19:30] (Hiker_) VETO VETO VETO!! DO it now!
[19:30] (Hiker_) :-)
[19:30] (CryHavoc) THe Jews told GWB to Knock down the Towers using Area 51 Spacecraft?
[19:31] * CryHavoc tnzr theorizes that The Knights Templar and Clandestine Embassy Attackers spread around the agent that causes Bush Derangement Syndrome (BDS). Thus, not only does this prove that the Illuminati created CFCs to damage the Ozone, but also that the Chinese are building a base on the dark side of the moon. **(( Konspiracy Kreator 1.1 ))**
[19:31] (tnzr) CryHavoc: the facts are that Rosie ODonnel and the other View girls are on TV, thus they know more than you and can teach you a thing or two. :)
[19:31] (_3Josephs) its not a tax increase ... its a reverse tax cut - and only on the wealthy ;-)
[19:31] (michaelc) conclusions aren't thoughts.
[19:31] (Hiker_) Cry...that's bullshit...it was the gay baby whales that told him
[19:31] (tnzr) so if you want to be enlightened, listen to Rosie's take on 9/11!!
[19:31] (US-Male) I think Rosie is gonna blow a fat gasket !!
[19:31] * tnzr sarcasm'd
[19:31] (CryHavoc) tnzr...Rosie O'Donnelll is a BLCOKHEAD
[19:31] (Kaliuna) 3J - its a tax increase on everyone....
[19:31] (tnzr) the worst part is how she stares into the camera.. like shes talking personally to you
[19:31] (CryHavoc) no celeb/glitterati knows a fucking thing...except how to act
[19:32] (tnzr) CryHavoc: i know, that was the bread & butter of my joke that you refused to click on!!
[19:32] (TWThomas) Rosie O'Donnell is a bomb that we need to drop on Iran
[19:32] (CryHavoc) Rosie stares at Twobar...his penis detaches and hides
[19:32] (CryHavoc) Timo!!!!
[19:32] (US-Male) god, The View is like a gang of mostly Mental Midgets
[19:32] (Twobar) CryHavoc is Strapped-On !!
[19:32] (US-Male) it's Mental Midget Racing
[19:32] (Kaliuna) now thats an idea -- send Rosie to argue with Aki....
[19:32] (CryHavoc) a shame they broke the Quan Yin statue in transit....:/
[19:32] (US-Male) just watching Rosie try to "think" is funny
[19:32] (CryHavoc) but traader is replacing it
[19:32] (Hiker_) The View...angry lesbians and lesbian wannabees that know everything
[19:32] (observer) TWThomas: we don't wan to cause tsunamis now ;)
[19:33] (CryHavoc) I have nothing against Lesbians...
[19:33] (US-Male) I can see the little hamster wheels turning in her brain
[19:33] (CryHavoc) but gender bashing is out of line...from either side
[19:33] (Hiker_) Cry..normally I don't...but only wehn they weigh less than I do
[19:33] (Kaliuna) observer -- ohhh but can't you see her in same room with him - don't ya know --
[19:33] (tnzr) that blonde on the view is hot though, regardless of her mental fortitude (or lack thereof)
[19:33] (CryHavoc) US-Male..get fire extinguisher..
[19:33] (CryHavoc) Hiker...not even then...
[19:33] (tnzr) and no, I don tmean Barbara Walters, US-Male, so dont even try it
[19:34] (Twobar) Another moron judge............"A Circuit Court judge said Wednesday a woman's sex change operation does not free her ex-husband from his alimony obligation. Lawyers for Lawrence Roach, 48, had argued his 55-year-old ex-wife's decision to switch genders and to change her name from Julia to Julio Roberto Silverwolf voided their 2004 divorce agreement because a man cannot legally pay alimony to a man.
[19:34] (Hiker_) TJ Maxx needs to be fined in the millions
[19:34] (CryHavoc) I spent 20+ years in Urban pestholes..
[19:34] (US-Male) I don't know who any of them are except Rosie O'Tardie
[19:34] (Hiker_) we need to start seeing these companies that can't keep their data safe, PAYING FOR IT
[19:34] (Twobar) Sorry, judge. when my wife gets turned into a man , she has voided our marriage contract.
[19:34] (CryHavoc) Twobar will change into a Woman :P
[19:34] (Twobar) CryHavoc is "WYMYN" !
[19:34] (CryHavoc) oops..Twobar caught in mid-change!!
[19:34] (randym) what is the topic here
[19:34] (tnzr) Hiker_: dont get me started on TJ Hooker
[19:35] (US-Male) tnzr told the doctor "make me look just like Barbar Walters"
[19:35] (Hiker_) BJ Hooker
[19:35] (CryHavoc) Twobar has one teticle one breast and half a penis...
[19:35] (Twobar) Our politicians are stupider than dirt, and our judges are just as bad.
[19:35] (Hiker_) Cry..yeah but whose?
[19:35] (randym) Twobar: Make a goddamn topic
[19:35] (CryHavoc) Hiker...TomM-- loaned them to him
[19:35] (Kaliuna) Two-- that really is an odd thing anyway -- alimony -- just settle it as an estate...
[19:35] (TWThomas) We need to hand over Barbara Walters to Ayatollah Khamenei for his nightly lap dance
[19:35] (tnzr) US-Male: ..on the inside
[19:35] (Hiker_) that's typical of "those types"
[19:35] (CryHavoc) Twobar Topic Suggestion:
[19:35] * Twobar changes topic to 'randym is gay'
[19:35] (US-Male) lol
[19:35] (CryHavoc) "When will Iran start having 'mysterious' accidents?
[19:35] (Twobar) hahaha
[19:35] (TheTailor) hahaha
[19:35] (US-Male) har har
[19:35] (Kaliuna) TWO -- now cut that out...
[19:36] (Hiker_) Twobar...stop saying gay...say homosexual instead
[19:36] (Twobar) hey, he wanted a topic
[19:36] (tnzr) randym is happy
[19:36] (CryHavoc) hrmm who is gonna touch that
[19:36] (Twobar) Hiker, dam. I only said that he's happy
[19:36] (Kaliuna) TWO - I wanted a topic earlier - but lets be practical - Dems want a showdown --
[19:36] (tnzr) prancing through a field of wildflowers-happy
[19:36] (CryHavoc) - /topic TwoBar is PolySexual
[19:36] (Hiker_) Twobar...oh shit...then I fell for it
[19:36] (Twobar) LOL !
[19:36] (Kaliuna) We gonna have a TX style showdown (wildwild west style)
[19:37] (CryHavoc) Kaliuna..heh in CVongress??
[19:37] (Twobar) get ready to puke.....
[19:37] (Twobar) ""We met and had our first date 36 years ago this month — this very month," Bill Clinton told hundreds of donors at a fundraiser last week as his wife looked on fondly.
[19:37] (Kaliuna) yaaa Cry
[19:37] (Hiker_) Pelosi needs to be jailed with the rest of congress
[19:37] (US-Male) CHeney should bust a cap in someone's azz
[19:37] (CryHavoc) no...what will happen is they will compromise..we will get screwed
[19:37] (Twobar) he forgot the word "looooooong"
[19:37] (CryHavoc) US-Male..of maybe he needs to tell Reid to fuck himslef?
[19:37] (tnzr) cheney needs to get some sun
[19:37] (Hiker_) gotta go watch Borat...laster
[19:37] (Twobar) his wife looked on fondly. Ugh. Does anybody want to see the face of Hillary looking "fond" ?
[19:37] (Kaliuna) Cry not likely they are going on vacation (congress is) and refuse to return to vote for the military needs
[19:37] (CryHavoc) tnzr wants to go hunting with Cheney
[19:38] (tnzr) Twobar: I dont want to se her O-face.. (obama face)
[19:38] (US-Male) yeah but with Hillary 'fondly' is not distinguishable from "I hate you"
[19:38] (Twobar) "I'd rather go hunting with Cheney than driving with Teddy".
[19:38] (CryHavoc) Kaliuna...they said they will not return??
[19:38] (tnzr) CryHavoc: I do, becauise you know.. accidents happen.
[19:38] (Twobar) tnzr hehe
[19:38] (Kaliuna) Cry -- thats the rumor
[19:38] (n00b040) pelosi is rad lwsbian
[19:38] (CryHavoc) Kali..HALLELUJAH!!!!!
[19:38] (CryHavoc) go DEMS!!!
[19:38] (Twobar) I'll tell you what...I dont think a president has fucked up as badly as Bush has these last 2 years
[19:38] (Twobar) He is a total shmuck
[19:38] (Kaliuna) well it IS vacation time til 16th of April...
[19:39] (CryHavoc) Twobar..its not just Bush..
[19:39] (CryHavoc) its the GOP that fucked up
[19:39] (Twobar) He makes the republicans LOOK as corrupt as Clinton was
[19:39] (Twobar) cry, of course
[19:39] (Twobar) its his whole gang that looks bad
[19:39] (CryHavoc) Kali..I hope they have a congressional walkout..
[19:39] (Kaliuna) TWO - oh in last couple of weeks he has finally gotten tough -- too bad the GOP isn't following that lead
[19:39] (CryHavoc) the dems will be blamed..
[19:39] (CryHavoc) or maybe we can Fire them :)
[19:39] (Kaliuna) Cry -- yes they will be blamed as they should be blamed
[19:39] (Twobar) the entire gop is a bunch of moron weaklings
[19:39] (Twobar) The democrats are completely crazy and the gop are weak sob sisters
[19:40] (CryHavoc) Twobar..heres the Dems chance to show they are as worthless
[19:40] (Twobar) the democrats are far worse actually
[19:40] (Kaliuna) TWO - the DEMS are worse... and believe me my Dem got an eyefull and will get an earful when he returns for Easter break
[19:40] * CryHavoc votes to FIRE COngress
[19:40] (Twobar) far more destructive
[19:40] (CryHavoc) New Elections!!
[19:40] (TheTailor) And replace them with who?
[19:40] (Twobar) flush them all. Pick out people from the phone book
[19:40] (CryHavoc) Twobar...we need for them to destroy!
[19:40] (TheTailor) Twobar for president!
[19:40] (tnzr) The View
[19:40] (Kaliuna) You have ANY idea what their tax increase will be to the average family? good grief worst in history
[19:40] * tnzr rofl
[19:40] (CryHavoc) TT....a group of people who are NOT hacks
[19:40] (US-Male) everyone in my phonebook is illegal
[19:41] (Twobar) Seriously, pick people out of the phone book to do the job of congress and senate. Does anyone think they could do worse ?
[19:41] (TheTailor) CryHavoc, good luck finding those.
[19:41] (CryHavoc) Twobar/CryHavoc 2008 :)
[19:41] (CryHavoc) TT...could we do any worse then what we now have??
[19:41] (US-Male) make Rosie O'Dumbell the President
[19:41] (CryHavoc) US-Male...then you better hope yer penis is deatachble
[19:41] (Twobar) If you picked out a few handfuls of people who have lived decent lives , stayed out of jail, decent educations, BUT WITH GOOD HONEST HEARTS, they would do ten times the job our scum in office do
[19:42] (US-Male) CryHavoc: why she's no wrose than Bush right ?
[19:42] (CryHavoc) Twobar..the way I see it...they could do no worse
[19:42] (Twobar) exactly cry
[19:42] (US-Male) I mean Rosie can handle it. She seems sharp
[19:42] (CryHavoc) US-Male..Rosie is a chone chopper
[19:42] (Twobar) how could they do any worse ?
[19:42] (US-Male) so draft Rosie !!
[19:42] (Twobar) chone chopper haha
[19:42] (KoBushi) governance by random selection from a viable pool?
[19:42] (CryHavoc) she gets presidency...plane loads of Penises will go into hiding
[19:42] (US-Male) ROsie ) Bush
[19:42] (CryHavoc) Rosy Bush??
[19:42] (CryHavoc) err get a shot
[19:43] (US-Male) hell, why not!
[19:43] (Twobar) KoBushi, I didnt stutter. Pick em out of the phone book. I dont need to use two dollar words :P
[19:43] (Kaliuna) Well hmm here's what you do - declare an emergency session - shut down congress, EO the war powers act and continue funds that are needed for military - then fine congress critters 10K$ a day for every day they fail to show up for emergency session
[19:43] (US-Male) I mean, nobodu could be worse than Bush right ?
[19:43] (CryHavoc) Twobar/CryHavoc 2008
[19:43] (observer) rosie/moore '08!
[19:43] (Twobar) or how about this...
[19:43] (US-Male) everyone in my phonebook is an illegal alien
[19:43] (CryHavoc) observer...their combined weight would sink DC
[19:43] (Kaliuna) Emergency session - ONLY funding of military - no riders, no anything else... just funding - period
[19:43] (KoBushi) Twobar but, from the phone book doesn't guarantee that they have stayed out of jail have a good education, or are decent
[19:43] (Twobar) Whenever a new senator/congressman is elected, have them do jail time for 2 years first. Just to save time.
[19:43] (ishimi) us-male=pinocchio
[19:43] (CryHavoc) Kaliuna...hahaha dream on
[19:44] (Twobar) KoBushi, you have to check their records
[19:44] (CryHavoc) Senators and House Reps Survive on pork
[19:44] (Kaliuna) Cry -- serious!
[19:44] (CryHavoc) Twobar...Except one...
[19:44] (CryHavoc) Ron Paul
[19:44] (US-Male) yes, The Savior
[19:44] (CryHavoc) he is human too...
[19:44] (Twobar) I'd have to read up fully on him first
[19:44] (CryHavoc) but look at his record..
[19:44] (US-Male) he is the Son of God !
[19:44] (CryHavoc) Twobar..his nickname is Dr. No
[19:45] (Twobar) ahhh, the first Bond flick
[19:45] (Kaliuna) Cry - they all do but I do think all GW has to do is declare martial law on the congress critters, with an up/down vote for military funding - nothing else added -- under War Powers act
[19:45] (Twobar) the only good james bond movie was Dr No...and maybe Goldfinger.
[19:45] (CryHavoc) he is GOP....but every 2 years the GOP helps the dems to try and defeat him
[19:45] (Twobar) If you think that anyone but Sean Connery was James Bond, you are young and innocent
[19:45] (KoBushi) Twobar I see... and... so will we choose the staffers randomly too then?
[19:45] (US-Male) well I think that proves he's right doesn't it ?
[19:45] (CryHavoc) any legislation that crosses his desk...if it violates the Constitution, he votes.....NO
[19:45] (Kaliuna) TWO - change the topic - that really isn't a very nice one...
[19:45] (Twobar) KoBushi all of em
[19:45] (Twobar) KoBushi's real actual name is Pussy Galore
[19:46] (Kaliuna) CRY and who is he to interpret the constitution?
[19:46] (CryHavoc) Kaliuna..if the bills in front of him VIOLATE the letter of the Constitution...he votes against it..
[19:46] (CryHavoc) no matter if it originated from the Dems..or the GOP
[19:46] (Kaliuna) ... BTW due to storm in this area - might disappear for a minute or two if WIldBlue goes down due to lightning in area
[19:46] (US-Male) when Ron Paul's name is mentioned, angels sing ... so beautifully
[19:46] * Twobar changes topic to 'Blair Remains Livid'
[19:46] (CryHavoc) US-Male..not hardly...
[19:47] (US-Male) no they DO
[19:47] (US-Male) I've heard it
[19:47] (CryHavoc) but who else in the race can you name
[19:47] (Twobar) I heard them too
[19:47] (Twobar) I thought it was rap
[19:47] (US-Male) Rosie O'Donnel is the woman for the job
[19:47] (Kaliuna) Cry - thing is - its HIS interpretation -- not yours, not mine, not judiciary... and no thank you
[19:47] (CryHavoc) US-Male..you best check that rye bread for spoilage
[19:47] (US-Male) Cry you are just afraid of Rosie
[19:47] (Twobar) rye bread breeds penicillin
[19:47] (CryHavoc) Kaliuna...its the Constitution...
[19:47] (US-Male) she's manly and tough
[19:47] (Twobar) she can beat up Magnum PI
[19:47] (US-Male) hell yes
[19:48] (CryHavoc) bill comes along lets say...for allowing the Giovernment to control such and such...
[19:48] (US-Male) and Rosie is better than Bush. Cause nobody can be worse than Bush
[19:48] (CryHavoc) if that is not a power given to the fed by the COnstution...he votes against it
[19:48] (Kaliuna) Cry -- it may BE the constitution but no two people seem to be able to tell you that is A or B is right or exact in interpretation
[19:48] (US-Male) well -- unless Rosie is equal to Bush
[19:48] (CryHavoc) Kaliuna..because so many people have not bothered reading it
[19:49] (Kaliuna) Cry- even the judiciary cannot agree on interpretation -- we've all seen that... like right to keep and bear arms
[19:49] (CryHavoc) the bottom Line is ..Ron Paul votes fro Freedom and less government
[19:49] (astrodog) He's also unelectable.
[19:49] (CryHavoc) its up to the people to remain vigilant
[19:49] (Kaliuna) I'm all for less gov't - but there comes a time when it is needed - when the lessers fail to do the job THEY are suppose to do
[19:49] (CryHavoc) astro....prob so...but he is the only one in the pack who is not rife with corruption
[19:50] (astrodog) Cry: Unelectable is unelectable./
[19:50] (astrodog) Pick from the 2, and move on.
[19:50] (astrodog) Got those pics for me?
[19:50] (CryHavoc) Kaliuna..Only enough government to govern...any more is excessive force
[19:50] (Kaliuna) right now its NONE of the ABOVE for me --
[19:50] (US-Male) well, say what you want but I'm voting for Rosie
[19:50] (CryHavoc) astrodog..I will by tomorrow...
[19:50] (CryHavoc) I had to reglue the bases of two of them..lol
[19:50] (CometBaby) Question .. calling on my pals for some assistance :)
[19:50] (CryHavoc) and the Kwan Yin needs to be sent back
[19:51] (Kaliuna) hi COMET -- yes mam
[19:51] (CryHavoc) iditos packaged these
[19:51] (CometBaby) My friends son has to write a report on Bush .. he wants three of his best attributes. What would you say they were?
[19:51] (US-Male) CometBaby: he's skinneir than Rosie
[19:51] (CryHavoc) no astro..If given an unsavory choice in 2008...I will vote Libertarian...
[19:51] (CometBaby) lol
[19:51] (US-Male) CometBaby: ok, he's a straight talker
[19:51] (US-Male) relatively
[19:51] (CryHavoc) Bush steers a steady course
[19:51] (Kaliuna) He does what he says he is going to do - three things when he first ran for office -- he did all three
[19:51] (CometBaby) honnest?
[19:51] (CryHavoc) there is one
[19:51] (CometBaby) right
[19:52] (CometBaby) he doesnt' waiver
[19:52] (Twobar) CometBaby, good sense of humor and can laugh at himself
[19:52] (US-Male) as much as any politican can BE a straight talker that is
[19:52] (TWThomas) Iran needs to beefing it's jerky and get down to the war !
[19:52] (Twobar) He did a great one the other day
[19:52] (astrodog) Comet: Is "bad" a "Best Attribute"?
[19:52] (astrodog) :P
[19:52] (CometBaby) yep
[19:52] (TheTailor) I think he's honest, he was my governor.
[19:52] (Kaliuna) Two - yes...
[19:52] (CometBaby) TT okay
[19:52] (TheTailor) Steadfast
[19:52] (observer) anyone seen rappin rove yet?
[19:52] (Kaliuna) He's not afraid to get his hands dirty -- literally --
[19:52] (Twobar) I heard Bush say, "last year my ratings were at 30%, and my VP shot somebody. Ahh, the good, old days.", refering to how things are now
[19:53] (Kaliuna) Comet and look at his ranch and enviro friendly it is - and he doesn't go around bragging or preaching others should do it.. and yet HE has...
[19:53] (US-Male) CometBaby: he's not afraid to mangle the English language!
[19:53] (CometBaby) haha
[19:53] (TheTailor) hahaha
[19:53] (US-Male) takes a man to do that =)
[19:54] (Twobar) yeah, but does he plant and hoe tabacco ?
[19:54] (Kaliuna) yes US and he smiles at his own ... mispronunciations
[19:54] (Twobar) only Al does that, oh AL !
[19:54] (Twobar) we miss Al
[19:54] (Twobar) AL FLOATS !
[19:54] (Twobar) and he won
[19:54] (_HellMngr) AL FLOATS! BURN HIM!
[19:54] (US-Male) he's a witch?
[19:54] (Twobar) al floats amongst us and he invented the internet
[19:56] (Twobar) China is continuing an aggressive military buildup in secret and deploying missiles near Taiwan that are increasing instability in the region, a State Department official told Congress yesterday. Thomas Christensen,...said China has made multibillion-dollar increases in defense spending each year for the past decade but has not explained to the United States where the arms buildup is headed...what the purposes of this modernization are,"
[19:56] (Twobar) gee.
[19:56] (Twobar) as if we didnt know this
[19:56] (TWThomas) Write Timothy W. Thomas for President in 2008
[19:56] (US-Male) "In his best-selling memoir, "Dreams From My Father," Obama said he couldn't even get in the door at national civil rights groups when he was younger. He wrote letters to them after graduating from Columbia University but said none responded."
[19:56] (US-Male) maybe he is too white
[19:57] (US-Male) or maybe the universe doesn't revolve around Obama
[19:57] (Swigert) hey hey!!!
[19:57] (observer) Bush thanked the association for providing the dinner, "and I'd like to thank Senator Webb for providing security".
[19:57] (TWThomas) Obama is the loser in the rain
[19:57] (US-Male) yeah that was a good one
[19:57] (TWThomas) hahaha
[19:58] (CryHavoc) Puff the Magic Negro...
[19:58] (Swigert) if we put Rosie and Cindy together - would they have the same intelligence as a single liberal?
[19:58] (TWThomas) Cindy ?
[19:58] (Twobar) oh crap, the sixties were the end of most racism in jobs and housing. Fuck that nonsense.
[19:58] (Kaliuna) sheeeehan
[19:58] (Twobar) You cant breed it out of the souls and hearts of some morons
[19:58] (Swigert) Saint Cindy
[19:58] (Rocky2-) the only one who makes any sense on the View is that cute blonde
[19:58] (TWThomas) oh
[19:58] (Swigert) Twobar: is Rosie as stupid as average liberals, or even worse?
[19:58] (TheTailor) Ma Sheehan
[19:59] (US-Male) Shi'ha'an
[19:59] (Swigert) I'd like to see her in a video with Bin Laden...holding a knife to her throat
[19:59] (CryHavoc) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_Negro
[19:59] (CryHavoc) LMFAO!!!!! holy shit
[19:59] (TWThomas) Fuck Cindy Shehaan with a 9 Iron cause she and Rosie O'Donnell should get married tonight
[19:59] (Kaliuna) swiggy - first he'd have to find it
[20:00] (CryHavoc) Timo is spouting Quotables!!!!
[20:00] (astrodog) TWT: Why a 9 iron?
[20:00] (Twobar) ROFL !!!........."Washington -- President Bush took a humorous shot at Sen. Jim Webb of Virginia over the recent arrest of a top Webb aide on a charge of carrying a handgun without a license. When Bush opened his remarks Wednesday night to the Radio and Television Correspondents' Association dinner, he thanked his hosts, and added, "And I'd like to thank Senator Webb for providing security." ... Bush also engaged in self-deprecating humor in his speech.
[20:00] (Swigert) kali: heh
[20:00] (TWThomas) astrodog : cause it's a 9 iron
[20:00] (CryHavoc) dayum Timo drank too much Beta Reticulean Joy juice!
[20:00] (astrodog) TWT: A wedge would hurt more...
[20:00] (US-Male) UNdercovah Brothah
[20:00] (astrodog) Or, perhaps, a driver.
[20:00] (TheTailor) hahahaha
[20:00] (Twobar) You gotta love those liberals who have gun backups. That vote 100% to ban our rights to have them. but they are "special", aren't they ?
[20:01] (Kaliuna) two uhuh uhuh
[20:01] (Twobar) total hypocrats
[20:01] (Twobar) my new word, hypocrat
[20:01] (Kaliuna) just like gore boy -- hippocrat
[20:01] (Swigert) Twobar: good one
[20:01] (Kaliuna) Two - get it right hippocrat
[20:01] (Twobar) And I love their excuse: "but we are in the public eye and you arent".
[20:01] (Twobar) That's what I said..they are "special", arent they
[20:01] (Swigert) Twobar: sad part is = Hillary is the sanest of them all
[20:02] (US-Male) "Examples of magical negroes as published by social commentators include: Noah Cullen (Sidney Poitier) in the film The Defiant Ones (1958)[2][3] The magical negro is a recurring archetype in novels by author Stephen King:"
[20:02] (Twobar) Swigert, you are probably right. Hillary drools with the urge for power, but she is saner than most of them
[20:02] (US-Male) "Dick Hallorann in The Shining (1977), and either the 1980 film adaptation (Scatman Crothers) or the 1997 TV miniseries (Melvin Van Peebles)[3] Mother Abigail in The Stand (1978), and the 1994 TV adaptation (Ruby Dee)[3]"
[20:02] (US-Male) hmmm
[20:02] (Swigert) Twobar: if she is elected in 2008, I think the Presidency would change her - make her more responsible
[20:02] (Twobar) Stephen King always has people "returning"
[20:02] (US-Male) I dunno if I agree with Spike Lee about all those cases
[20:03] (US-Male) sure, there are some magical negoes
[20:03] (Swigert) twobar: also, I hope Bush's veto of the troop time limit fails = I'd hate to see a Dem running the war in iraq
[20:03] (US-Male) like Shaft
[20:03] (CryHavoc) US-Male..that link is hilarious though
[20:03] (US-Male) but Shaft was just a Blaction Hero
[20:03] (Twobar) Swigert, its possible but I doubt it. She would be blinded by power and living up where the air is rarefied
[20:03] (_3Josephs) how does a veto "fail"?
[20:03] (US-Male) well-stereotyped
[20:03] (Twobar) blaxploitation
[20:03] (US-Male) it is hilarious
[20:04] (Twobar) I started to watch Blacula the other night, but man, its boring
[20:04] (Twobar) circa 1972
[20:04] (Swigert) twobar: let's hope - but imagine her first two years in power = a Dem congress too
[20:04] (Kaliuna) Swiggy -- puuuuullleeeeeeeease - she'd be terrrrrrible
[20:04] (US-Male) I mean, Rocky etc are all stereotyped too
[20:04] (TWThomas) Hillary Clinton needs to have her penile unit removed and become a real woman
[20:04] (Swigert) kali: she'd be a better president than Bill
[20:04] (Twobar) Swigert, the democrats have been in power how long...a few months ? we just got our first monster tax hike, as we all predicted, and its huge
[20:04] (Swigert) twobar: so maybe there's hope?
[20:04] (Twobar) the new budget
[20:05] (Kaliuna) Swiggy -- who do you honestly think was running Bill's presidency - he sure wasn't
[20:05] (CryHavoc) http://mediamatters.org/items/200703200012
[20:05] (Swigert) kali: ah good point
[20:05] (Kaliuna) swiggy - ya national health care, children should be raised by village not by parents
[20:05] (Swigert) kali: he was too busy interning
[20:05] (Twobar) Swigert, I dont have much hope at all. Because the democrats are psycho and the gop are weaklings and cowards
[20:05] (Kaliuna) swiggy - let alone the other stuff --
[20:05] (Swigert) I think back to Canada's Liberal gov'ts and wonder what people have agaisnt Clinton
[20:05] (Twobar) the only reason the democrats have gotten where they are, is because of the gop and their utter weaknesses
[20:06] (US-Male) Cry, oh here's the good part
[20:06] (Twobar) If the gop stuck to family values, the things most americans want, they'd be fine
[20:06] (US-Male) "The concern is that the magic negro may still be covertly used as a subordinate character to white protagonists. Even though they may play a central figure in a storyline, they are portrayed as being unable to solve challenges without the involvement of a white associate.[2]"
[20:06] (Twobar) IF they were honest
[20:06] (nossy) are the democrats changing capital gains and income taxes ?
[20:06] (US-Male) so maybe Obama is Hillary's magic negro
[20:06] (Swigert) well I applied to graduate today = June 13
[20:06] (n00b123) yes family values
[20:07] (Swigert) now I have to finish my thesis by next thursday, and defend if on April 16
[20:07] (Twobar) All the gop has to do is stick to their guns, do what americans mostly want
[20:07] (Kaliuna) swiggy - very good, now where's that last chapter?
[20:07] (Twobar) and they have failed
[20:07] (Swigert) kali: still in my head
[20:07] (Twobar) And they are looking as corrupt as the democrats
[20:07] (KoBushi) I don't want family values... I want the government to mind it's own fucking business, pull it's hands a little further out of people's pockets, and stop shelling out money like a rabid monkey flinging poo
[20:07] (Swigert) kali: it won't be long - 20 pages - but it will be good
[20:07] (charlie|) Well .. at least admin and Co. don't have to go behind closed doors to look like idiots, they seem to have found the public forum quite cozey
[20:07] (TheTailor) Twobar, well maybe the lst electionwill remind them who is boss.
[20:07] (Kaliuna) TWO - they are scared because after all that media hype and stolen votes....
[20:07] (Twobar) KoBushi, that's family values
[20:07] (CryHavoc) night peeps
[20:07] (Kaliuna) Swiggy -- you don't have much time left - go write!
[20:07] (KoBushi) Twobar no, it isn't
[20:07] (Kaliuna) nite Cry
[20:08] (Twobar) KoBushi yes it is. 'Family values' = basic american values, what most of us want
[20:08] (Swigert) kali: who are you, my trusted friend? Oh wait, right. yes, you are.
[20:08] (Twobar) at least, thats how I mean it
[20:08] (KoBushi) family values = force our ideas onto the american family
[20:08] (TheTailor) charlie|, what are you refering to?
[20:08] (Swigert) family values are neocon beliefs - they must be stopped
[20:08] (Kaliuna) Swiggy - well get to writing then! :)
[20:08] (charlie|) TT: The Rove "rap dance"
[20:08] (Swigert) twobar: did the leftist protesters in SF ever not astonish you with their claims?
[20:08] (charlie|) I mean even republicans would have to admit that was just lame
[20:09] (n00b406) the repubs need to find some back bone
[20:09] (Twobar) KoBushi, no. vamily values means that govt should strive to strengthen basic family. Not stuff govt in our face, not go behind our backs and offer our kids sex prevention behind our backs , etc
[20:09] (Eeyore) Swigert must they be stopped BECAUSE they are neocon or because they are inherently flawed?
[20:09] (Swigert) eeyore: both
[20:09] (Twobar) charlie, what if it was the 'rove lap dance' ?
[20:09] (KoBushi) Twobar no, the gov shouldn't be doing that, they should be minding the business of the state and the fed, and leaving families alone
[20:09] (Eeyore) Swigert then your... not very bright
[20:09] (charlie|) heh
[20:09] (_rwx) Abusive Domain or User
[20:09] (Swigert) eeyore: or politics is too ridiculous to debate
[20:10] (fordnut) does anyone else remember when Twobar tried to get Hillary Clinton to give him a lapdance
[20:10] (Twobar) KoBushi, that is basically what I'm trying to say. Respect family values, is to leave them alone, except where necessary
[20:10] (Eeyore) Swigert some truth in that yeah
[20:10] (Eeyore) bbiab
[20:10] (KoBushi) Twobar where is it neccesary though?
[20:10] (Twobar) Kobushi, family shapes family values, we dont need govt doing that, and that is part of 'respecting' family values
[20:10] (fordnut) :/
[20:10] (Twobar) KoBushi, hell, offhand I dont know, but if I thought about it, I'd find a few things
[20:10] (Swigert) hey fordnut
[20:10] (fordnut) hey swig
[20:10] (Twobar) fordnut's real actual name is Ursulla Andress
[20:10] (n00b406) strong familys equal healthy moral values
[20:10] (fordnut) lol
[20:10] (Swigert) I doubt Hillary would ever come near Twobar
[20:11] (KoBushi) Twobar fair enough
[20:11] (Swigert) he's not her type
[20:11] (fordnut) Twobar has the hots for Hillary
[20:11] (fordnut) its widely known
[20:11] (Twobar) Swigert's type is Janet Reno. They both took off down the florida biways, in her little red truck
[20:11] (n00b406) test
[20:11] (fordnut) he's the only one to sponsor the Hillary Pinup Calendar
[20:11] (CometBaby) Twobar dresses up like Barbra Streisand for her
[20:11] (n00b406) test
[20:11] (Twobar) fordnut, widely ? I doubt that !
[20:11] (Kaliuna) lol
[20:11] (charlie|) I just watched "Children of Men" which might I add is a pretty dumb movie
[20:11] (US-Male) n00b406: one more
[20:11] (panini) CometBaby, ouch!
[20:11] (Twobar) Comet, yes. Why, yes, I do. I look marvelous.
[20:12] (Swigert) Twobar's type is Janine Turner
[20:12] (charlie|) Unless if you're a hippy perhaps
[20:12] (CometBaby) Twobar its all good until you start singing "Happy Days Are Here Again"
[20:12] * Twobar checks himself in the mirror. Gawd, I'm lovely.
[20:12] (fordnut) Twobar has a cankle fetish
[20:12] (n00b406) US just testind the post feature
[20:12] (Twobar) hehehe yuck !
[20:12] (fordnut) lol
[20:12] (US-Male) O
[20:12] (Twobar) noob wants to rest against Web Hubbel's "behind".
[20:12] (Kaliuna) TWo -- I told you that pink tutu was gonna give you problems
[20:13] (Twobar) the lips of Web Hubbell. I wonder what happened to that inbred Arkansas lameist
[20:13] (fordnut) lol
[20:13] (Kaliuna) two - he done croaked
[20:13] (fordnut) ol Web hubbel
[20:13] (Twobar) he did ? good
[20:13] (fordnut) did he have some lips or what!
[20:13] (Twobar) FOB...Friends Of Bill. what a bunch.
[20:13] (Twobar) fordnut, he had major lips
[20:13] (fordnut) I... dont recall...
[20:14] (randym) hi Threebar
[20:14] (Twobar) fordnut hehehe
[20:14] (Kaliuna) two -- ahh nono more like friends of hillary --
[20:14] (US-Male) randym is gay
[20:14] (Twobar) randym is gay
[20:14] (US-Male) lol
[20:14] (Swigert) twobar: they just became FOBs to get a cheap place to stay in DC - the Lincoln bedroom
[20:14] (Twobar) hahaha
[20:14] (Kaliuna) seem to wind up somewhat dead....
[20:14] (TheTailor) randym is gay
[20:14] (charlie|) Since Edwards and Snow the news outlets have been pushing a lot of cancer specials
[20:14] (Kaliuna) gees guys
[20:14] (TheTailor) I'll never forget that!
[20:14] (US-Male) sensitive isn't he
[20:14] (fordnut) vincent foster
[20:14] (Twobar) hilarious
[20:14] (fordnut) what a guy
[20:15] (Twobar) John Edwards. I cant tell if he's an elfin puppy or a reptile or what
[20:15] (charlie|) You would [almost] think cancer didn't exist before Edwards wife and Tony Snow
[20:15] (astrodog) Edwards?!
[20:15] (fordnut) lets all have a moment of silence please for vince foster
[20:15] (astrodog) Edwards has cancer?
[20:15] (charlie|) His wife
[20:15] (Swigert) Twobar has a Lincoln/Hamlin '60 sticker on his buggy
[20:15] (Twobar) astrodog looks exactly like John Edwards' hair
[20:15] (astrodog) Two: Hey. I'm not THAT tall!
[20:15] (Twobar) hehe
[20:15] (astrodog) I'm only 5'10.
[20:15] (astrodog) :P
[20:15] (n00b406) yes. edwards now he is telling about the son he lost
[20:15] (Twobar) hell, I"m 5 ft 8
[20:15] (Swigert) astrodog has a Bell/Everett '60 brand on his horse
[20:15] (Swigert) I'm 5'6"
[20:16] (fordnut) Twobar is an atheist, he likes to scream darwwWWWIINNNN during coitus
[20:16] (Twobar) yep, Edwards is moaning the lost son thing
[20:16] (astrodog) Two: Hah. I have 2-4 inches on all of you! Buahahaha!
[20:16] (astrodog) :P
[20:16] (Twobar) fordnut LOL !
[20:16] (fordnut) OH DARWINNNNNN
[20:16] (charlie|) Oh geez
[20:16] (astrodog) Comet is probably taller than me. :P
[20:16] (Swigert) fordnut has a Breckinridge/Lane '60 etching in his house
[20:16] (Twobar) astrodog howls "TAXXX MEEEE" when he comes
[20:16] (fordnut) lol
[20:16] (CometBaby) I'm 5-7
[20:16] (Swigert) CB is tall
[20:16] (CometBaby) 130#
[20:16] (astrodog) Two: No. I save 30% of it, and mail it to the IRS.
[20:16] (astrodog) :P
[20:16] (Swigert) I have to get to the gym
[20:16] (Twobar) astro hehehe !
[20:17] (Twobar) Swigert is roly poly
[20:17] (Twobar) Swigert needs to lose 98 pounds. He's going on a fish head diet
[20:17] (KoBushi) Swigert just pay the dunkin donuts guy $50 to run with the donuts
[20:17] (astrodog) I've been working out, lately... christ is that a pain in the ass.
[20:17] (fordnut) Twobar prefers the boll weevil to the roly poly
[20:17] (astrodog) I'd rather be a lardass.
[20:17] (Twobar) astro, you need to read my book, "Exercize: Shortcut to the grave".
[20:17] (fordnut) lol
[20:17] (Twobar) that's the ticket
[20:17] (astrodog) Two: Eh. I'm a smoker.
[20:17] (astrodog) :P
[20:18] (fordnut) i prefer 'Humility, and how I found it'
[20:18] (Swigert) Twobar: O
[20:18] (Twobar) astro, dam it. You have a list of bad shit
[20:18] (Swigert) Twobar: I'm in thesis mode - don't do much right now
[20:18] (astrodog) Two: Smoker, Speeding, Drinking, Liberal. Right?
[20:18] (n00b406) astro smoking is a proven killer
[20:18] (Swigert) I'm working at home right now
[20:18] (Twobar) astro, you forgot 'gay'.
[20:18] (rlc) if all the smokers quit smoking.. it would cause my taxes to go up.. heh
[20:18] (charlie|) n00b: So?
[20:18] (astrodog) Twobar: As long as I don't sleep with you, that won't cause a problem.
[20:19] (Swigert) I never started smoking and never ever will
[20:19] (astrodog) Mmmm.
[20:19] (astrodog) Nicotine.
[20:19] (rlc) all those precious sin taxes, gone..
[20:19] (rlc) politicians would freak
[20:19] (rlc) they need them for their pork.
[20:19] (Twobar) astro, why not. I have my new boob job. Except the moron doctor got too drunk and my new tits are down to my waist.
[20:19] (charlie|) politicians [are] freaks
[20:19] (fordnut) lol
[20:19] (fordnut) twobar has teardrop tits
[20:19] (fordnut) :(
[20:19] (astrodog) Two: Alright, grandma.
[20:19] (TheTailor) Twobar, well that's up from your knees.
[20:20] (Twobar) Tailor exactly.
[20:20] (Twobar) they were HANGIN
[20:20] (n00b406) smoking will some day become extinct
[20:20] (astrodog) They used to be speed bags for midgets.
[20:20] (Twobar) fordnut's tits look exactly like mine
[20:20] (fordnut) my areola is bigger
[20:20] (n00b406) as all those addicted die
[20:20] (fordnut) thx
[20:20] (astrodog) I won't die, n00b.
[20:20] (astrodog) ;)
[20:20] (Twobar) fordnut got the mangina job, too
[20:21] (fordnut) i got the package deal
[20:21] (michaelc) US-Male: O'Donnell was putting forth her conclusions. conclusions are never supposed to be thoughts.
[20:21] (fordnut) hormone and psychotherapy
[20:21] (Twobar) complete with labia
[20:21] (fordnut) all rolled into one
[20:21] (astrodog) Mangina, AND saggy tits, ford?
[20:21] (n00b406) astro that's what they all said
[20:21] (fordnut) easy financing
[20:21] (Twobar) and a nice roundy buttocks
[20:21] (Twobar) and best of all...POUTY LIPS !
[20:21] (astrodog) n00b: I won't die, because I'm too stubborn.
[20:21] (astrodog) ;)
[20:21] (duffsterr) Twobar, was u in THE SHINING, in room 237...? :P
[20:21] (Twobar) fordnut got pouty lips too
[20:21] (Twobar) duff LOL !
[20:21] (n00b406) big dog tou the man
[20:21] (n00b406) you
[20:22] (Twobar) duffsterr has nice boobs
[20:22] (duffsterr) ew, i do actually, i am losin some weight now, i hope...
[20:22] (US-Male) michaelc: did you just wake up ?
[20:22] (Twobar) them pouty lips make me cry
[20:22] (Twobar) every creature on god's earth should have pouty lips
[20:23] (fordnut) Twobar got the city of San Francisco to pay for his ball gag
[20:23] (n00b406) twobar see the camel
[20:23] (Twobar) just think about it..what could be sexier than a chicken with pouty lips ?
[20:23] (astrodog) ford: That's ART!
[20:23] (astrodog) :P
[20:23] (Twobar) camels are HAWT
[20:23] (Twobar) fordnut's real actual San Francisco name is Bevin Dusky
[20:23] (TheTailor) Giving up cickens?
[20:23] (duffsterr) broke back camels
[20:23] (TheTailor) err, chickens
[20:23] (Swigert) Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms = Who's bringing the chips???
[20:24] (Twobar) Bevin Dusky, the perfect San francisco name
[20:24] (astrodog) TT: You'd know. Are your chickens tighter now?
[20:24] (fordnut) actually I keep it simple
[20:24] (n00b406) no, no, camels have a pouty lower lip\
[20:24] (duffsterr) janet reno loves the BATF......
[20:24] (fordnut) Rim Job
[20:24] (Twobar) Janet Reno doesnt have any lips
[20:24] (Twobar) little thin alien lips
[20:24] (Swigert) duff: her own personal Einsatzgruppen?
[20:24] (fordnut) she has a penis
[20:24] (duffsterr) ewwwww
[20:24] (Twobar) Reno has the lips of a grey alien
[20:24] (duffsterr) hahah
[20:25] (duffsterr) Swigert, AHHHHHAHAHAHAHa lol very good..... lol
[20:25] (Cathy344) Janet Reno is an alien in a skinsuit.
[20:25] (Twobar) alien lips in a little red truck
[20:25] (Swigert) duff: is your Church ATF approved?
[20:25] (Twobar) coasting thru florida
[20:25] (Twobar) as if they would elect her
[20:25] (Twobar) man, somebody laid an egg on her, telling her that
[20:25] (Swigert) we all know that she's invincible
[20:25] (Twobar) I imagine she's crawled back into private life
[20:26] (duffsterr) Swigert, i hope so........ Clinton the 2nd is about to rule the next 8 years so whats up.... lol
[20:26] (astrodog) Wow.
[20:26] (Twobar) either that, or she lives in a trailer park, spreading the latest gossip, making a great meat loaf
[20:26] (Twobar) thats about all shes good for
[20:26] (duffsterr) sorry, Clinton the QUEEN....... the KING already ruled..... lol
[20:26] (Kaliuna) told ya lightning and all...
[20:26] (Swigert) duff: maybe Reno will get a second chance
[20:26] (astrodog) TT got quiet after I asked about the tightness of chickens. Maybe he's going to test it?
[20:26] (astrodog) :P
[20:26] (Swigert) and by 2012, people will look back on how good they had it under Bush
[20:26] (Twobar) "The Cosmic Tightness Of Chickens"
[20:26] (duffsterr) Swigert, hahahha she prolly willlllll lol..... isnt that amazing....
[20:26] (Cathy344) http://tinyurl.com/2qhepg (-- somoene here needs to buy that for me.
[20:26] (Twobar) Ralphi wrote that book
[20:27] (duffsterr) Swigert, i think they are already starting to think that now....... lol
[20:27] * charlie| thinks Rove should have done a rap about Bush's approval numbers
[20:27] (Ralphi) ddi not
[20:27] (Ralphi) nice to see you twobar
[20:27] (astrodog) char: Numbers this low don't have names.
[20:27] (astrodog) :P
[20:27] (Twobar) charlie, you missed it. Bush did his OWn rap on his numbers
[20:27] (charlie|) lol
[20:27] (Ralphi) i'm really hoping for war with Iran
[20:27] (Twobar) hey Ralphi
[20:27] (Swigert) few presidents are appreciated while they are in office
[20:27] (Ralphi) and that's no troll
[20:27] (Kaliuna) and now the rain falls... heavily down on the rooftops
[20:27] (Ralphi) how you been twobar?
[20:28] (Swigert) Clinton was not liked until Bush came along - all of a sudden he's admired (by some)
[20:28] (charlie|) Hoping for war?
[20:28] (charlie|) Why?
[20:28] (Twobar) Ralphi, I need a mangina for my own amusement
[20:28] (Ralphi) because Iran needs to be punished
[20:28] (Kaliuna) Swiggy --nahh
[20:28] (Ralphi) yum mangina
[20:28] (Swigert) Lincoln wasn't appreciated until after he died
[20:29] (Ralphi) i'd like a decapitation, shock and awe, and an annhilation of their air defenses, navy and nuclear facilities
[20:29] (charlie|) Ralphi: Hmm OK, so lets just sink money/manpower/time into war?
[20:29] (Ralphi) is that too much to ask?
[20:29] (Kaliuna) oh oh - not just rain bit of ahh heavier stuff than just that...
[20:29] (Twobar) nytol
[20:29] (duffsterr) Swigert, Clintons legacy started in 1993 with the retro-active taxes on the rich, etc..... and 1994 happened for a reason......
[20:29] (duffsterr) Twobar, gnite
[20:29] (Ralphi) and we can do it all from the air
[20:29] (Kaliuna) nite two
[20:29] (n00b406) ralphie is right, we have to much to lose
[20:29] (charlie|) Ralphi: Yea, because if you haven't noticed we're still working on Iraq
[20:29] (duffsterr) btw, thanks Ross Perot for Bill Clinton..... :|
[20:29] (Ralphi) i'm not proposing an invasion or a babysitting operation
[20:29] (charlie|) Which didn't go as clear cut as that
[20:29] (Ralphi) like we have in iraq
[20:30] (Kaliuna) Ralphi - hmm hi
[20:30] (Ralphi) i don't think the iranians deserve us to occupy them
[20:30] (Ralphi) hi kaliuna
[20:30] (US-Male) Twobar wears a dress AND a gun
[20:30] (US-Male) remind me to tell him that
[20:30] (charlie|) Ralphi: Well, reality says a bombing campaign would never happen
[20:30] (Swigert) man I gotta see Ocean's 123
[20:30] (Swigert) 13
[20:30] (charlie|) With any president
[20:30] (Ralphi) and why is that charlie?
[20:30] (Kaliuna) Ralphi where you been and why you been gone so long?
[20:30] (Ralphi) presidents suck
[20:30] (charlie|) It just wouldn't
[20:30] (Ralphi) i'm here and there kaliuna, but mostly there
[20:30] (n00b406) kings are worse
[20:30] (Ralphi) kings suck too
[20:30] (TheTailor) Ralphi, Gingrich is proposing he Brits blocade gasoline going into Iran, half is imported.
[20:30] (duffsterr) Kaliuna, what the helllllll????? yure dish works in heavy rain?! lol
[20:30] (Kaliuna) Ralphi okkk ... if you sayso -- you're forgiven for not dropping in a bit more often
[20:31] (Ralphi) thetailor: that would be nice, but the brits aren't likely to take advice from Gingrich
[20:31] (Kaliuna) TT -- sounds like it will hurt the people the most...
[20:31] (Ralphi) thetailor: plus, I like bombing more
[20:31] (n00b406) ralphie are you an anarchist
[20:31] (Kaliuna) duffy - nope switched to land line -- not rain tis the lightning
[20:31] (charlie|) Iran can hurt far worse with sanctions and global pressure then a war which wouldn't be a bombing campaign anyways
[20:31] (TheTailor) Ralphi, well they have ONE refinery, bomb that :-)
[20:31] (Swigert) tailor: hmm good start
[20:31] (duffsterr) Kaliuna, cheater! :P
[20:31] (Ralphi) if i were an anarchist, n00b406, i wouldn't be proposing one government bombing another
[20:32] (charlie|) Iran has a lot of youth in it
[20:32] (Kaliuna) lol duffy! mr Jealous you
[20:32] (Ralphi) i'm not saying you bomb the whole country
[20:32] (duffsterr) I RAN vs I RACK :P
[20:32] (charlie|) Your beef with the government is understood, but bombing away at everyone else as collateral damage
[20:32] (charlie|) Isn't going to help anyone
[20:32] (n00b406) ralphie it was the dislike of presidents and kings
[20:32] (TheTailor) charlie|, it probably would e a bombing campaigne
[20:32] (Ralphi) who said bombing away?
[20:32] (US-Male) kill 'em all
[20:32] (TheTailor) iRan and iRaq
[20:32] (duffsterr) hahaahhaa
[20:32] (charlie|) Support on the youth majority in Iran is good to have
[20:33] * Cathy344 sings, "And Iran. Iran so far away."
[20:33] (duffsterr) iPHONE, BOCH!
[20:33] (US-Male) iPod
[20:33] (Kaliuna) now now - embargo just might do the trick... but I doubt it
[20:33] (charlie|) You won't do that by killing them
[20:33] (duffsterr) iROSIE!!!!! LOL
[20:33] (Ralphi) you decapitate the mullah leadership and major government buildings in the dead of night when no one is around. you take out the navy, air defenses, and nuclear facilities.
[20:33] (TheTailor) charlie|, bombing doesn't have to be on people.
[20:33] * Swigert sends a flock of seagulls to crap on Cathy344's car
[20:33] (n00b406) islam is at war with evertone else
[20:33] (Ralphi) i'm not advocating the bombing of hospitals...at least not yet
[20:33] (charlie|) TT: Collateral damage
[20:33] (charlie|) In dense populated areas
[20:33] (TheTailor) charlie|, ports
[20:33] (n00b406) why not be at war with them
[20:33] (Kaliuna) there are many people in Iran who are not happy with the ayatolas
[20:33] (Kaliuna) and now the thunder........ boom
[20:33] (Ralphi) oh collateral damage, collateral shmamage
[20:33] (TheTailor) charlie|, no, not densly populated areas
[20:34] (charlie|) So bomb just the ports? I don't think Ralphie is talking that
[20:34] (duffsterr) Kaliuna, landline cheater... :P
[20:34] (Ralphi) you could start with the ports
[20:34] (Cathy344) Swigert; Again? Didn't you do that yesterday?
[20:34] (duffsterr) Kaliuna, 300 bauder.... :P
[20:34] (Ralphi) but you'd have to take out their ability to counter attack
[20:34] (Ralphi) too
[20:34] (TheTailor) charlie|, ports, other infrastructure that will cause problems
[20:34] (Kaliuna) well duffy I can leave - but am running 49.2 land line
[20:34] (charlie|) It's moot, nobody is going to bomb Iran
[20:34] (Ralphi) charlie: wanna bet?
[20:34] (duffsterr) Kaliuna, its raining here now.....
[20:34] (Ralphi) charlie: anyway, I can dream, so don't rain on my parade
[20:34] (Swigert) cathy344: those were Bald Eagles
[20:34] (Kaliuna) well remember what Reagan did -- knocked out their navy one by one...
[20:35] (charlie|) The U.S. among others can't risk the collateral damage to insue
[20:35] (charlie|) Sure you can dream
[20:35] (TheTailor) charlie|, as I said, they only have one refinery for gasoline, and they import half of the gasoline they use.
[20:35] (Kaliuna) duffy - look at radar -- gonna get worse tonight and into tomorrow...
[20:35] (TheTailor) charlie|, you are nuts.
[20:35] (charlie|) So bomb the refinery fine
[20:35] (n00b406) bombing of iran will come later after sanctions fail
[20:35] (charlie|) You start getting into infastructure you're going to take on collateral damage
[20:35] (Ralphi) decapitate the government
[20:35] (TheTailor) charlie|, iunderstand something, Iran isn't going to rule, ever.,
[20:35] (duffsterr) Kaliuna, no its not, its global raining, come onnnnn......... goto sleep and earn 19%.......... :)
[20:35] (charlie|) In high numbers
[20:35] (charlie|) rule?
[20:35] (Ralphi) human-caused global warming is a myth
[20:35] (TheTailor) charlie|, that's horseshit too
[20:36] (Kaliuna) duffy -- later - its only 10:35
[20:36] (n00b406) dont forget the power vacuume
[20:36] (Ralphi) charlie: I don't really care how many Iranians die as long as I get my gas
[20:36] (charlie|) TT: Yea OK
[20:36] (Kaliuna) hi DS
[20:36] (duffsterr) n00b406, what the hell is vacuume?
[20:36] (n00b406) and it's related problems
[20:36] * StewartD is now known as DStewart
[20:36] (charlie|) Ralphi: I do, high casualty amounts of Iranians can be very costly
[20:36] (Ralphi) DSTEWART!!!
[20:36] (n00b406) duff scratch the e
[20:36] (Ralphi) charlie: yeah, I don't think what I'm advocating will result in a high casulty rate
[20:36] (duffsterr) whoa! close lightning!
[20:36] (DStewart) Tailor, thank you, sir
[20:36] (charlie|) In PR (at the least) on this "War on Terror"
[20:37] (TheTailor) My pleasure
[20:37] (DStewart) Blair Remains Livid?
[20:37] (Kaliuna) duffy -- told ya lightning - and thunder and bigger system coming from south of us...
[20:37] (duffsterr) n00b406, i before e except after... _ ?
[20:37] (Ralphi) charlie: not that I think persian blood is all that valuable because I'm a national chauvinist
[20:37] (n00b406) oh and add a c and - a u
[20:37] (DStewart) Wazzat?
[20:37] (DStewart) Hi, Kal
[20:37] (DStewart) Hi, Ralph
[20:37] (duffsterr) n00b406, haha
[20:37] (charlie|) Ralphi: Heh
[20:37] (Ralphi) dstewart: ltns
[20:37] (charlie|) Ralphi: Then bomb away then
[20:37] (n00b406) duff right
[20:37] (duffsterr) Kaliuna, whatever..... yure gardens gonna do fine.........
[20:37] (Kaliuna) we got THUNDER -- we got LIGHTNING -- we got ... rain
[20:37] (Ralphi) dstewart: charlie here is an iranian sympathizer - please set him stright
[20:37] (charlie|) lol
[20:37] (Kaliuna) duffy - they aren't planted yet - way too early for that...
[20:38] (charlie|) That's right because Iran is all one big ball of wax
[20:38] (duffsterr) Kaliuna, what?!@?#!?@ tsk tsk.....
[20:38] (charlie|) And they're all guilty by association
[20:38] (DStewart) Has anyone noted that the Iranians gave Britain coordinates for the kidnapping that were in Iraqi waters?
[20:38] * Cathy344 sings, "Oh, I've seen fire and I've seen rain. I've seen sunny days I thought would never end."
[20:38] (Kaliuna) duffy -- good half month away for early garden stuff...
[20:38] (DStewart) Then, when Britain pointed it out, the Iranians changed the coordinates.
[20:38] (charlie|) Ralphi: At least you break down matters as black and white as the administration does
[20:38] (DStewart) charlie, everything is black and white.
[20:38] (Ralphi) the administration sucks
[20:38] (n00b406) in my area may 15 is the last frost
[20:38] (charlie|) Ralphi: You ever thought about being a White House aid?
[20:38] (Ralphi) all administrations suck
[20:39] (DStewart) You just have to break it down until you get to black and white.
[20:39] (Ralphi) don't confuse me with someone allied with the bush administration just because I'd like to see Iran stay in the stone age
[20:39] (charlie|) I thought we were trying to maintain as much muslim support as we could while acting on this war on terror
[20:40] (DStewart) Oh, fuck right off
[20:40] (duffsterr) Kaliuna, how many illegals u hire for your garden? :P
[20:40] (Kaliuna) duffy -- none!
[20:40] (duffsterr) hahahha
[20:40] (DStewart) Riiiiiight.
[20:40] (Kaliuna) Duffy - unless you wanna work
[20:40] (charlie|) You have to be strategic with these things
[20:40] (duffsterr) whoa!
[20:40] (duffsterr) i stab u now! lol
[20:40] (Ralphi) charlie: you also have to be tactical
[20:40] (Kaliuna) well duffy you'd be an illegal gardener - cause NO ONE who can't grow a tomato is allowed!
[20:40] (DStewart) So the way to maintain Muslim support is to capitulate to Muslim terrorist sponsor and Muslim terrorist government acts of war.
[20:40] (DStewart) That's brilliant.
[20:40] (duffsterr) Kaliuna, hahahahahaha
[20:40] (charlie|) Ralphi: I see what you're saying but the PR against a bombing campaign and innocent losses in Iran would be devistating
[20:41] (US-Male) Liberty Mutual wants me to sign up for insurance with them
[20:41] (DStewart) USM, they've always done right by me
[20:41] (US-Male) Maybe they didn't realize they already insure me
[20:41] (DStewart) Oh. Ha!
[20:41] (Kaliuna) duffy - though you might legally remove weeds!
[20:41] (duffsterr) keep that catterpilllarrrsss off the leavies....
[20:41] (US-Male) DStewart: so far so good =)
[20:41] (duffsterr) Kaliuna, hahahhaha
[20:41] (duffsterr) Kaliuna, weed & feed... :P
[20:41] (TWThomas) Karl Rove Drop's it like it's hard
[20:41] (Kaliuna) lol
[20:41] (Ralphi) WEED!
[20:41] (charlie|) Ralphi: You can't just wipe away the nation and start over again
[20:41] (Ralphi) did someone say WEED?
[20:42] (TheTailor) oxy!
[20:42] (Kaliuna) duffy -- not in garden -- that stuff might hurt the good garden produce
[20:42] (Kaliuna) Ralphi -- wrong kind of weed
[20:42] (Ralphi) charlie: why do you think there would be so much loss of life
[20:42] (Ralphi) i love that other kind of weed
[20:42] (US-Male) loco-weed ?
[20:42] (Ralphi) i think we need to get out of iraq as soon as possible
[20:42] (duffsterr) raining here now...
[20:42] (duffsterr) hemp!
[20:42] (Kaliuna) ralphi -- we are working on that...
[20:42] (duffsterr) not hump
[20:42] (charlie|) Ralphi: That will be happening
[20:42] (Ralphi) i don't care what happens to iraq afterwards
[20:43] (DStewart) Who doesn't? Just depends on what you intend by "as soon as possible."
[20:43] (n00b406) out of iran and into iraq?
[20:43] (US-Male) Ralphi: could be an abrupt pullout in April
[20:43] (n00b406) oops
[20:43] (Ralphi) dstewart: too-shay
[20:43] (duffsterr) MC ROVE dude...
[20:43] (n00b406) iraq, iran
[20:43] (DStewart) "As soon as possible" could mean 8 years.
[20:43] (duffsterr) niiiice, lag here...
[20:43] (US-Male) will COngress allow our troops enough funding to come home ?
[20:43] (Ralphi) i mean as long as it takes for us to pack our shit and get out
[20:43] (charlie|) We'll be out sooner than that
[20:43] (charlie|) Whether Bush decides to listen or not
[20:44] (duffsterr) $2.50 for gal of unleaded :(((((
[20:44] (TheTailor) I think the Iraqi's are going to stand up fast, they can be rutless when they want to.
[20:44] (TheTailor) err, ruthless
[20:44] (DStewart) As Biden and Hagel said shortly after the original incursion and overthrow of Saddam, in 2003---we should count on staying as long as it takes, including possibly ten years---as Biden and Hagel both said.
[20:44] (cyr) how much is a gal of Biofuel?
[20:44] (US-Male) charlie|: sooner than April ?
[20:44] (charlie|) He can pretend constitutionally that congress has no say in this war, but he's fighting a losing battle
[20:44] (duffsterr) hell the new congress is more ethical than the old congress... lol
[20:44] (n00b406) if the americaqnsoldiers come home the islamo nuts will follow
[20:45] (DStewart) No, he's fighting a winning battle. And Constitutionally, Congress does have some say---but it's only funding. That is ALL they have.
[20:45] (charlie|) And it will get pulled
[20:45] (US-Male) I call uoon Congress to defund the war
[20:45] (n00b406) congress can declair war and fund war that is all.
[20:45] (Ralphi) charlie: congress' only option is to defund the war
[20:45] (DStewart) You and the moron Democrats can pretend that they have more, but well, you're just lying if you do so.
[20:45] (TheTailor) Did hagel vote for the timeline?
[20:45] (charlie|) If he can't work something out
[20:45] (DStewart) Tailor, yes.
[20:45] (duffsterr) US-Male, lol
[20:45] (Ralphi) does pelosi make anyone else sick?
[20:45] (TheTailor) That fucker
[20:45] (TWThomas) Hagel should concede his ass and drop out of congress
[20:45] (n00b406) the president commands the military
[20:45] (US-Male) duffsterr let's see if they have any balls
[20:45] (Kaliuna) Ralphi -- ahh ya
[20:45] (DStewart) Pelosi makes everyone sick.
[20:45] (cyr) let them take the troops home
[20:45] (DStewart) Including her own party.
[20:46] (duffsterr) US-Male, they wont....... and they know it........
[20:46] (cyr) let them make the experiment
[20:46] (n00b406) as in commander in chief, (singular)
[20:46] (Ralphi) why can't the dems pick someone who won't make me sick for majority leader
[20:46] (DStewart) And that's sad... considering that the entire Democratic party is sick.
[20:46] (duffsterr) most Ds are do not have Dimensia..... YET.......
[20:46] (TheTailor) Hagel things voting for the timeline will help him get eleced as president.
[20:46] (US-Male) duffsterr: well, it will be good that Congress terrorizes our army. Voters like that
[20:46] (TheTailor) thinks
[20:46] (duffsterr) US-Male, hahaha, yeah.....
[20:46] (charlie|) My tax money is being sunk into this war and I support the motion to defund it if they can't come to some agreement of how we can get out turning over responsiblities (what Iraqis don't have) to thems
[20:46] (Kaliuna) and the PORK and TAX hikes -- good grief -- you'd be paying half your wages in taxes
[20:47] (Ralphi) if you want my body and you think i'm sexy comon baby let me know
[20:47] (US-Male) defund it and stfu about it
[20:47] (duffsterr) i like whats goin on right now...... make the Liberals explain their situation........ never happened the last 40-50 years.....
[20:47] (astrodog) Kali: So?
[20:47] (US-Male) my 2 cents ^^
[20:47] (duffsterr) it was all a given.......
[20:47] (TheTailor) charlie|, there isn't a motion to defund it.
[20:47] (n00b406) getting a grip on democracy takes time
[20:47] (Kaliuna) astro -- that means YOU
[20:47] (astrodog) Kali: Yep.
[20:47] (charlie|) TT: It will if they can't reach an agreement
[20:47] (n00b406) rome was'nt built ina day
[20:47] (DStewart) Tailor, and then someone pulls out something like this, authored by . . . Chuck Hagel, in 2002 (with Joe Biden)
[20:47] (US-Male) defund it right now
[20:47] (DStewart) Although no one doubts our forces will prevail over Saddam Hussein's, key regional leaders confirm what the Foreign Relations Committee emphasized in its Iraq hearings last summer: The most challenging phase will likely be the day after--or, more accurately, the decade after--Saddam Hussein. Once he is gone, expectations are high that coalition forces will remain in large numbers to stabilize Iraq and support a civilian administration.
[20:47] (US-Male) have balls
[20:47] (astrodog) I'm fine with that. I already pay almost half.
[20:48] (Kaliuna) astro - then you'd be paying double what you are now under their plan
[20:48] (DStewart) Tailor, there has been a motion, possibly more, to defund it.
[20:48] (n00b406) especially if one has lived in a dictatorship for ever
[20:48] (astrodog) No I wouldn't.
[20:48] (Kaliuna) astro - then YOU have not looked at their proposal
[20:48] (astrodog) I pay 35-40%, now.
[20:48] (Ralphi) we need to get out of iraq now
[20:48] (Ralphi) i don't care what happens there
[20:48] (TheTailor) DStewart, but none are out there now are three?
[20:48] (TheTailor) there
[20:48] (Ralphi) we can bomb anything we don't like
[20:48] (charlie|) Congress is sending the message to Bush to figure out how to finish this
[20:49] (DStewart) Tailor, don't know
[20:49] (DStewart) "sending the message"? That's just sophomoric.
[20:49] (TheTailor) charlie|, and Bush is going to set them straight, right away.
[20:49] (Ralphi) charlie: congress just doesn't want this war to end up in a democrat's lap - which it will
[20:49] (charlie|) TT: He'll try
[20:49] (Ralphi) sophomoric (--- good word
[20:49] (US-Male) and Bush is replying "fuck you, you can't be trusted with the timeline"
[20:49] (DStewart) If they want to "send the message," first, it has to be Congress, not one capitulationist party.
[20:49] (TheTailor) charlie|, no, he won't try, he will veto.
[20:49] (charlie|) He'll do the same thing he's always done, ignore the constitution
[20:49] (duffsterr) astrodog, what!?@#?!?@ you love LINUX and u dont fight for MORE FREEDOM??????? wtpoopie.....
[20:49] (DStewart) Second, they can do that by writing it up and sending it WEstern Union.
[20:49] (astrodog) Fuck Linux.
[20:49] (DStewart) Bush never ignored the Constitution.
[20:49] (astrodog) I love FreeBSD.
[20:49] (astrodog) :P
[20:49] (TWThomas) Pelosi has no more orgasms in back pocket cause Hillary has stole them all
[20:49] (Ralphi) charlie: its obvious you haven't much of an understanding of the constitution
[20:50] (DStewart) And he's not going to let a bunch of coward Democrats do so either.
[20:50] (charlie|) Ralphi: Please
[20:50] (TheTailor) charlie|, I'm not going to let you troll here, Bush doesn't ignore the constitution.
[20:50] (Ralphi) charlie: how has he ignored the constitution?
[20:50] (charlie|) lol "Coward"
[20:50] (DStewart) charlie: "Please."
[20:50] (US-Male) Ralphi is right, you don't
[20:50] (n00b406) bush has never ignored the constitution
[20:50] (charlie|) Republicans siting their fat asses on IRC calling them cowards
[20:50] (charlie|) Nice =)
[20:50] (duffsterr) astrodog, hahah
[20:50] (Ralphi) i'm not a republican
[20:50] (Ralphi) but I do have a fat ass
[20:50] (Ralphi) thank youverymuch
[20:50] (TheTailor) charlie|, YOU are on IRC
[20:50] (duffsterr) okay, freebsd, sawwwreee...
[20:50] (US-Male) hahah charlie|'s fat-ass exit strategy from IRC
[20:50] (DStewart) I'm not a Republican and I don't have a fat ass.
[20:50] (DStewart) And the Democrats are cowards.
[20:50] (US-Male) charlie| is eating cheetos and drooling
[20:50] (Ralphi) democrazis
[20:51] (_HellMngr) s/cowards/driven by evil/
[20:51] (Ralphi) us-male: lol
[20:51] (duffsterr) whoa, DStewart dont play...
[20:51] (astrodog) duff: Damn right. Linux is shit.
[20:51] (astrodog) :P
[20:51] (TheTailor) charlie|, you are a teenager, right?
[20:51] (Ralphi) C://cowards/programfiles/charlie/linux/upyourbutt
[20:51] (duffsterr) astrodog, lol
[20:51] (_HellMngr) the only thing they fear is justice
[20:51] (n00b406) the democrats are socialists
[20:51] (Ralphi) charlie is a teenager?
[20:51] (Ralphi) democrazis: national socialists
[20:51] (Kaliuna) and I thought charlie was a tunafish
[20:51] (US-Male) so, I guess "charlie|" cannot explain how Bush is violating the Constitution regarding war funding
[20:51] (charlie|) Who asks "Are You" then says "Right"
[20:51] (DStewart) First-term college freshman.
[20:52] (duffsterr) n00b406, they have been moreso since HOOVER...... they TOTALLY CHANGED during/after the depression....
[20:52] (Ralphi) dstewart: so not even a sophomoric
[20:52] (thx1138^) how many here think everyone is entitled to health care coverage just for being born?
[20:52] (TheTailor) charlie|, you act like a child, so I was guessing, and in answer to your question, I do.
[20:52] (DStewart) Ralphi, touche to you too
[20:52] (n00b406) the house is where all spending bills come from
[20:52] (charlie|) Ahh me =) This has been fun but by all means I can't stomache too much looney toons in one day =)
[20:52] (US-Male) charlie|: explain how Bush is violating the Constitution regarding war funding
[20:52] (Ralphi) thx1138: me
[20:52] (duffsterr) thx1138^, burp....
[20:52] (charlie|) Ta Ta Lemmings =)
[20:52] (US-Male) oh, he's running
[20:52] (US-Male) BUSTED
[20:52] (US-Male) LOL
[20:52] (TheTailor) hahaha
[20:52] (n00b406) thx ha ha ha ha good one
[20:53] (US-Male) [20:56] (US-Male) so, I guess "charlie|" cannot explain how Bush is violating the Constitution regarding war funding
[20:53] (US-Male) OH GOTTA GO
[20:53] (thx1138^) Ralphi why
[20:53] (DStewart) Look, he used his best case. It was "please."
[20:53] (Ralphi) thx: because health care is a right
[20:53] (Ralphi) thx: and people are born with rights
[20:53] (DStewart) Not rights to health care, they're not
[20:53] (Ralphi) what could be more important than your health?
[20:53] (DStewart) Who is to provide the health care, by force?
[20:53] (thx1138^) Ralphi what rights are people born with? And where are all these rights you speak of written?
[20:53] (n00b406) ralphie is a socialist
[20:53] (Ralphi) thx: rights come from god
[20:53] (DStewart) Doesn't matter whether it's important. Importance doesn't create a right.
[20:54] (Ralphi) endowed by their creator and all that
[20:54] (thx1138^) Ralphi who's that?
[20:54] (n00b406) mabya socialist communist
[20:54] (duffsterr) DStewart, goddamn amen
[20:54] (DStewart) You can't have a right that creates a positive obligation to labor on the part of someone else.
[20:54] (duffsterr) whoa!
[20:54] (Ralphi) sure you can
[20:54] (DStewart) If you do, that means that those others are enslaved to your right.
[20:54] (duffsterr) ahahahahah
[20:54] (DStewart) And liberty is a prior right.
[20:55] (thx1138^) DStewart well put.
[20:55] (Ralphi) from the rich to the poor, the healthy to the sick, the young to the old; from each according to their ability to each according to their need.
[20:55] (duffsterr) omgoodness.... lol
[20:55] (DStewart) Since a "right to health care" contradicts a right to liberty, there can be no such right to health care.
[20:55] (thx1138^) Ralphi what are you quoting?
[20:55] (duffsterr) whoa......
[20:55] (n00b406) the socialist application of health care will creatshoreages and high prices
[20:55] (Ralphi) i'm not quoting
[20:55] (US-Male) you have the right to remain silent
[20:55] (Ralphi) plus you get better health care in a socialized system
[20:55] (n00b406) shortages
[20:55] (thx1138^) Ralphi do you think there is a zero sum to your notion?
[20:55] (DStewart) Ralphi's trolling
[20:55] (duffsterr) n00b406, without question, like the war on drugs, etc....
[20:55] (Ralphi) ralphi is trolling
[20:55] (_HellMngr) i highly doubt i would get better healthcare under a socialized system
[20:56] (Ralphi) thx: gotcha: I find socialized healthcare abhorrent
[20:56] (US-Male) Ralphi: fellow traveller!
[20:56] (_HellMngr) i have both insurance and cash
[20:56] (n00b406) duff i don't get the post
[20:56] (thx1138^) Ralphi damn ruin my intellectual inquest why don't you :P
[20:56] (_HellMngr) i'm sure i'd have to pay more under ralphis wet dream of free medicine
[20:56] (US-Male) geez let the poor guy troll a LITTLE
[20:56] (Ralphi) thx: look, I'm fat, lonely and have nothing better to do than IRC. You'll forgive me a transgression or two :)
[20:56] (_HellMngr) thanks for trying to fuck me, ralphi.
[20:56] (_HellMngr) you bastard
[20:56] (thx1138^) Ralphi allriiiiiiiiiiight
[20:56] (Kaliuna) your rights are dependent upon where you are born
[20:56] (DStewart) Lose weight, at least
[20:56] (_HellMngr) keep your fat fingers away from my cash
[20:57] (Ralphi) yeah, i do need to lose weight
[20:57] (DStewart) Kal, no, they're not.
[20:57] (duffsterr) _HellMngr, health insurance used to be personally paid by individuals....... not by where u work at let alone governments.... it's no different than auto insurance, home insurance, etc, et al......
[20:57] (thx1138^) _HellMngr he recanted.
[20:57] (DStewart) Their observation may be, but their existence isn't.
[20:57] (US-Male) I favor raising taxes
[20:57] (_HellMngr) I don't
[20:57] (n00b406) if socialism was, as in the past tense, so good the old soviet empire would be the reining super power
[20:57] (Kaliuna) DS -- for a generality... observationally
[20:57] (duffsterr) US-Male, haha
[20:57] (Ralphi) i favor raising taxes on the poor
[20:57] (_HellMngr) keep your fucking paws off my cheese
[20:57] (_HellMngr) oh yeah
[20:57] (US-Male) I want to tax you all into prosper5ity
[20:57] (_HellMngr) can we make it so we only tax the poor more
[20:57] (DStewart) THE USSR WASN"T SOCIALIST!
[20:57] (_HellMngr) without taxing me more?
[20:57] (_HellMngr) like
[20:57] (duffsterr) hahhaa... i favor the FAIR TAX :)
[20:57] (DStewart) THE USSR WASN"T COMMUNIST!
[20:57] (duffsterr) HR 25
[20:57] (duffsterr) sup
[20:57] * US-Male raises _HellMngr's taxes
[20:57] (DStewart) It was capitalist!
[20:57] (_HellMngr) we'll tax 50% of income UNDER say... $30,000
[20:57] (Ralphi) cruising by miami beach boac, couldn't get to bed last night
[20:58] (_HellMngr) or under $50,000
[20:58] (DStewart) STATE capitalist!
[20:58] (n00b406) ds u funny
[20:58] (DStewart) TA DA
[20:58] (duffsterr) _HellMngr, niiiiiiice, never gonna happen... lol
[20:58] (Kaliuna) shucks HM -- the Dems would tax you more and more and more...
[20:58] (_HellMngr) or how about everybody ahs to pay $25,000 in taxes, regardless of their income tax
[20:58] (DStewart) So as you see, it's capitalism that is genocidal and tyrannical. Not socialism or communism.
[20:58] (_HellMngr) err, regardless of their income
[20:58] (n00b406) DS it was a commad economy
[20:58] (thx1138^) DStewart i'm thinking ayn rand would disagree.
[20:58] (duffsterr) www.fairtax.org is the best plan thus far that i have read....
[20:58] (_HellMngr) that would be a fair tax
[20:58] (DStewart) HellMngr, a capitation? I think there's a lot to be said for that.
[20:58] (US-Male) I say we grind up The Poor and make them into Soylent Green
[20:58] (_HellMngr) even the poor have to pay $25k a year
[20:58] (DStewart) thx, I'm sure she would.
[20:58] (_HellMngr) and if they can't
[20:58] (_HellMngr) we put them into work camps to work it off
[20:58] (_HellMngr) of course
[20:59] (_HellMngr) they'll always be deliquient
[20:59] (DStewart) No, if they can't they can't.
[20:59] (Kaliuna) duffy -- ok stop all taxes on ... seniors living on fixed incomes
[20:59] (US-Male) grind them up
[20:59] (DStewart) That's all there is to it. No penalty.
[20:59] (_HellMngr) so they'll always be in the work camp
[20:59] (Ralphi) i think the medications i'm on lower my libido
[20:59] (_HellMngr) can you even see your cock you fat piece of shit?
[20:59] (duffsterr) Kaliuna, yes, hahaha hold on......
[20:59] (US-Male) Ralphi: better go find out
[20:59] (TheTailor) What meds?
[20:59] * _HellMngr spews hate
[20:59] (underling) i quit paxil and started talking to ants
[20:59] (DStewart) He's on baby aspirin
[20:59] (n00b406) the union of socialist soviet republics would dissagre
[20:59] (underling) its probably that
[20:59] (Kaliuna) duffy - or at least stop raising their property taxes
[20:59] (Ralphi) thetailor: too many
[20:59] (Ralphi) bbiam
[21:00] (Kaliuna) underling are you sure those were uncles
[21:00] (DStewart) Uh, Ralphi, aren't you like... 22 years old?
[21:00] (duffsterr) I also favor for people who OWN THEIR PROPERTY OUTRIGHT, OWN THE TITLE from ever paying PROPERTY TAXES....... take a note from the state of Iowa....... amen.....
[21:00] (underling) Kaliuna no uncles have less venom
[21:00] (US-Male) ralphi is 50
[21:00] (Kaliuna) underling -- ohoh - must be fire ants
[21:01] (Kaliuna) Duffy -- grandfather clause :)
[21:01] (underling) yes absolutely, i live in fire ant capital
[21:01] (rlc) ralphi has 'interesting' views on the middle east..
[21:01] (n00b406) taxes are necessary for a functioning society
[21:01] (duffsterr) Kaliuna, crap..... i tried...
[21:01] (Ralphi) back
[21:01] (Ralphi) not 22
[21:01] (US-Male) ralphi is probably right
[21:01] (Ralphi) i wish 232
[21:01] (n00b406) and ours functions magnificently
[21:01] (Ralphi) 22
[21:01] (rlc) n00b406: yes, without a penny wasted either .. it's a damn miracle.
[21:01] (Ralphi) i'm older than 30 but not older than 35
[21:02] (DStewart) Iran told Britain that it picked up the Brit sailors at coordinates that were in Iraqi waters.
[21:02] (rlc) noob: not one cent spent unwisely by mother government..
[21:02] (Kaliuna) duffy - grandfather clause locks in taxes on property as long as you live on property - at retirement (whether early retirement 62 or 65) in short taxes cannot be raised until property changes ownership
[21:02] (Ralphi) i would be having a lot more sex if I were 22
[21:02] (Ralphi) I was single then *grin*
[21:02] (n00b406) rlc i said nothing of waste,
[21:02] (duffsterr) n00b406, define functioning society..... low unemployment, stock market all time high after 9-11-01, and an (R) is the President... whoa....
[21:02] (DStewart) When Britain pointed out that, yes, those Irani-sourced coordinates were in Iraqi waters, Iran changed the coordinates.
[21:02] (duffsterr) Kaliuna, thats just in Iowa, correct?
[21:03] (Kaliuna) duffy -- thats been like that in IA for some time
[21:03] (n00b406) duff how was your day to day, or your week or your last ten years pretty good i bet
[21:03] (duffsterr) niiiiice
[21:03] (Ralphi) n00b406: I apprecaite the fact that you may be new to irc, and you can have any nick you want - i'm not telling you to do anything - but I wish to politely request that you change your nick to something more personal
[21:03] (duffsterr) n00b406, i'm 18 years old, sup...
[21:03] (n00b406) that is a functioning society
[21:03] (Ralphi) i just want to be polyamorous
[21:03] (Kaliuna) duffy -- our congress critters are considering that here -- write or call your rep about that -- its a good thing!
[21:03] (underling) blair's hair plugs might start popping off soon
[21:03] (DStewart) Meanwhile, on Human Rights Watch: No notice is taken that Iran is violating the GEneva Conventions.
[21:03] (duffsterr) n00b406, it IS....?
[21:03] (Ralphi) DStewart: seriously
[21:03] (duffsterr) Kaliuna, i am starting to do that, yes...
[21:04] (Ralphi) DStewart: those organizations only hold western nations to western standards
[21:04] (Kaliuna) DS - I brought that up earlier... :)
[21:04] (DStewart) Meanwhile, on Amnesty International: No notice is taken that Iran is violating the Geneva Conventions.
[21:04] (n00b406) ralph it is what wAs given i use scotinpueblo
[21:04] (Kaliuna) duffy - email on MO website...
[21:04] (Ralphi) what is scotinpueblo?
[21:04] (duffsterr) ok
[21:04] (underling) i dude named scot in pueblo
[21:04] (underling) a*
[21:04] (Kaliuna) 3J - you getting rained on up there?
[21:04] (Ralphi) ok - i've decided to cheat on my wife
[21:05] (n00b406) ralph my nick you asked about
[21:05] (duffsterr) whoa
[21:05] (Ralphi) nubee: ok
[21:05] (US-Male) Ralphi: who else will do you ?
[21:05] (DStewart) Meanwhile, on Democratic Party website: No notice is taken that Iran is violating the Geneva Conventions.
[21:05] (Ralphi) us-male: well thats what I'm here to find out
[21:05] (US-Male) haha
[21:05] (duffsterr) US-Male, lolololo LOL
[21:05] (n00b406) under good one
[21:05] (Ralphi) anybody want to ride the ralphster?
[21:05] (US-Male) Ralphi do you believe in the Hereafter ?
[21:05] (duffsterr) Kaliuna, you've cheated before, no????
[21:06] (Kaliuna) duffy - nope
[21:06] (Ralphi) us-male: i think so
[21:06] (US-Male) Ralphi then you know what I'm here after
[21:06] (Ralphi) kaliuna: net sex DOES count
[21:06] (Ralphi) us-male: do you have any jewish in you?
[21:06] (Kaliuna) ralphi -- I'll tell on you
[21:06] (duffsterr) damniittttt
[21:06] (duffsterr) oh well
[21:06] (DStewart) Ralphi, the Geneva Conventions aren't just Western... Iran is a signatory.
[21:06] (US-Male) Ralphi: uhhh... not that I know of (and no I dont want your Jewish sausage!)
[21:06] (Ralphi) us-male: would you like some?
[21:06] (Ralphi) hahaha
[21:06] (Ralphi) ok you got me
[21:07] (duffsterr) US-Male l olAHAHHAHAHAHA
[21:07] (US-Male) bada bing
[21:07] (n00b406) time for the real news good night
[21:07] (Ralphi) dstewart: i know they signed the document, but they can't possibly be expected to abide by it
[21:07] (underling) ./clear
[21:07] (Kaliuna) but I have another chapter to write before I get some sleep -- SO
[21:07] (Ralphi) kill -9 -1
[21:07] (Kaliuna) NITE you all..
[21:07] (duffsterr) my goodness, it is raining hard here, Kaliuna...
[21:07] (Ralphi) ./exec kill -9 -1
[21:07] (Ralphi) duff: where are you?
[21:07] (duffsterr) i am in hell...
[21:07] (Ralphi) kaliuna is writing a book?
[21:07] (Ralphi) where is hell?
[21:07] (astrodog) Ralphi: -1: no such pid.
[21:07] (astrodog) ;)
[21:07] (duffsterr) Ralphi, i am near kaliuna...
[21:08] (Ralphi) where is that?
[21:08] (duffsterr) astrodog, LOL
[21:08] (Ralphi) you guys having tornadoes?
[21:08] (underling) kaliuna's in hell too?
[21:08] (duffsterr) Ralphi, Kansas City.....
[21:08] (astrodog) Ralphi: A few, here in Tulsa.
[21:08] (Ralphi) oh
[21:08] (Ralphi) by you astrodog?
[21:08] (astrodog) Usual storm stuff.
[21:08] (astrodog) Not too bad.
[21:08] (Ralphi) i've never been to spain, but I"ve been to oklahoma
[21:08] (duffsterr) yea this is normal, actually calm right now... next few days may be ruff....
[21:09] (Ralphi) tornadoes are pretty scary - i have nightmares about them
[21:09] (Ralphi) kstewart?
[21:09] (Ralphi) d*
[21:09] (Ralphi) d"
[21:09] (astrodog) Ralphi: They're not too bad.
[21:09] (astrodog) Not like in movies.
[21:09] (Ralphi) oh
[21:09] (underling) i slept through a tornado
[21:09] (duffsterr) astrodog, hahhaa, NOTHING like the movies.... not even close....
[21:09] (astrodog) duff: I've seen one like the movies, when I was in AR.
[21:09] (duffsterr) u dont have time to THINK when one comes along.... 5 seconds later yure dead...
[21:10] (TheTailor) astrodog, have you ever been in a tornado?
[21:10] (Ralphi) Ambassadors of the 15 Council members agreed Thursday night, March 29, to a watered-down statement voicing grave concern for the continued detention of the seized British sailors, urging consular access to the captives and calling for an early resolution of the crisis that will lead to their release.
[21:10] (Ralphi) pussies
[21:10] (astrodog) TT: Yes.
[21:10] (duffsterr) hahaha
[21:10] (TheTailor) Really, what rating?
[21:10] (duffsterr) Ralphi, head traumaaaaaaaaa........ sup...
[21:10] (underling) lol ambassadors
[21:10] (underling) noobs
[21:10] (astrodog) TT: No idea. First one one when I was little, in AR.
[21:10] (astrodog) About a year ago, one hit this apt complex.
[21:10] (duffsterr) yeah, it's a bomb, thats all it is....
[21:11] (astrodog) As long as you aren't standing outside, they aren't bad usually.
[21:11] (duffsterr) its like 10 seconds, goodbye...
[21:11] (DStewart) Current temporary members of Security Council:
[21:11] (duffsterr) if that...
[21:11] (Ralphi) all in favor of bombing iran, say aye
[21:11] (Ralphi) aye
[21:11] (astrodog) TT: I love watching storms.
[21:11] (DStewart) Belgium (2008) Italy (2008) Qatar (2007) Congo (Republic of the) (2007) Panama (2008) Slovakia (2007) Ghana (2007) Peru (2007) South Africa (2008) Indonesia (2008)
[21:11] (Eeyore) aye
[21:11] (underling) my uncle in chicago used to say during severe storms "the sky is green and there are funnels in the sky, do know what that means, im going for a walk."
[21:11] (Ralphi) all in favor of being a bunch of pussies, say nay
[21:11] (duffsterr) NUKE! YES!!!!!!!
[21:11] (underling) dont*
[21:12] (astrodog) under: Righto.
[21:12] (duffsterr) AYE!!!! NUKE!!!!!!!
[21:12] (Ralphi) my beard is dry - i need to condition it
[21:12] (astrodog) The sky is usually yellow during a tornado during the day, though.
[21:12] (Ralphi) yay nukes!
[21:12] (astrodog) brb
[21:12] (Eeyore) just remember that western civilisation and values have worth and stop fucking around with these Islamic bronze age fucks. thats all.
[21:13] (underling) get in the chicken wire bunker and wait for the nukes
[21:13] (duffsterr) Eeyore, hahahahaha........
[21:13] (duffsterr) hahahaha
[21:13] (Eeyore) ?
[21:13] (duffsterr) why do you think ALL they all INVEST MONEY here?????? lol......
[21:13] (Eeyore) duffsterr because we actuyaklly do thinks well
[21:13] (Eeyore) thats why
[21:13] (duffsterr) Eeyore, amen...
[21:14] (Eeyore) and WE are the ones who dont seem to understand it
[21:14] (Eeyore) at least some of us
[21:14] (astrodog) bk
[21:14] (Ralphi) if roles were reversed, and gaza was finally under independent control of the jews rather than the palestinians, it would be like a heaven with money pouring in from all over the world and scientific and agricultural innovation - it would be nothing like the slave/suicide/terror/hamastan of a shit hole that it is. the arabs don't even take care of their own, they just use the helpless and downtrodden as political pawns.
[21:15] (astrodog) R: Everyone does that.
[21:15] (Ralphi) i mean, who do the iranians think they are fooling publishing a "letter" from a british soldier admitting to be in iranian waters and demanding britain leave iraq. Does iran think we are morons?
[21:15] (fordnut) lol
[21:15] (fordnut) yes
[21:15] (Ralphi) fucking persians
[21:15] (DStewart) That's asinine. No, everyone does NOT do that.
[21:15] (fordnut) what would you think watching the Democratic Congress of late?
[21:15] (fordnut) if you were in Iran?
[21:15] (fordnut) and all these 'polls'
[21:16] (Ralphi) is Pelosi a farsi name?
[21:16] (DStewart) What are you, a giant knee?
[21:16] (Ralphi) or is she a WOP?
[21:16] (DStewart) WOP?
[21:16] (Ralphi) Italian
[21:16] (DStewart) White Orangutan Protestant?
[21:16] (TheTailor) Ralphi, if the Jews had control of Gaza and the cooperation of the people it would likely be the Miami of the mille east.
[21:16] (Ralphi) "without papers"
[21:16] (TheTailor) middle east even
[21:16] (Ralphi) thetailor: except without the cubans
[21:16] (fordnut) lol
[21:17] (Ralphi) i need to get a persian hunting license - who issues those/
[21:17] (Ralphi) ?
[21:17] (_HellMngr) eeyore: WHO ARE YOU TO CLAIM THAT WESTERN VALUES HAVE ANY MERIT AT ALL? HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY DISCRIMINATE AGAINST OTHER CULTURES? WHY ARE YOU SO SURE YOU ARE RIGHT? LOOK AT ALL THE HORRIBLE THINGS THE WEST HAS DONE
[21:17] (Ralphi) hey, there is an #iran
[21:17] (DStewart) Israel would not have the coop of the people; the Palestinians (and Arabs, and Muslims) in general are anti-Semitic.
[21:17] (duffsterr) whoa
[21:17] (_HellMngr) (/liberal madness)
[21:17] (astrodog) TT: Check PM
[21:18] (TheTailor) I ignore your PM's astro.
[21:18] (Ralphi) hellmngr: we can even read the little letters too
[21:18] (Ralphi) what is PM
[21:18] (Ralphi) oh personal message
[21:18] (Ralphi) PM ME
[21:18] (astrodog) TT: Grab this one, if ya would.
[21:18] (Ralphi) everyone /join #iran
[21:18] (TheTailor) haha
[21:18] (TheTailor) no
[21:18] (astrodog) Alright,
[21:18] (astrodog) I'll paste it here.
[21:19] (astrodog) Any questions about tornados and such? Pretty rare you and I get a real convo in.
[21:19] (TheTailor) astrodog, if I didn't want it in PM, why would you paste it here?
[21:19] (duffsterr) is freebsd really good to go? i am bored....
[21:19] * stalkergu is now known as OggySP2
[21:19] (TheTailor) astrodog, and I didn't believe you anyway.
[21:19] (astrodog) TT: You said you ignored PMs from me. So I assumed you just didn't see it.
[21:20] (astrodog) TT: Gimme a bit in PM, alright?
[21:20] (TheTailor) No!
[21:20] (astrodog) TT: Frankly, I'm sick of arguing with you, and I think we can get it resolved in PM.
[21:20] (astrodog) In the channel, I think we'll both be trying to play to the lurkers, instead of work things out.
[21:21] (Thrawn) (-caught
[21:21] (starly) astrodog, you are devoiced (Requested by TheTailor )
[21:21] (Thrawn) nice
[21:22] (Ralphi) damnit astrodog
[21:22] (Ralphi) see what you did?
[21:22] (Ralphi) you made him mad
[21:22] (_Forbin) Rudolph W. Giuliani told a grand jury that his former chief investigator remembered having briefed him on some aspects of Bernard B. Kerik’s relationship with a company suspected of ties to organized crime before Mr. Kerik’s appointment as New York City police commissioner, according to court records.
[21:23] * _Forbin http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/30/us/politics/30rudy.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin
[21:23] (Thrawn) oooh spicy
[21:23] (Thrawn) yeah i was hoping his NY ties would catch up
[21:24] (DStewart) Yeah, that's catching up
[21:24] (DStewart) Mr. Giuliani, testifying last year under oath before a Bronx grand jury investigating Mr. Kerik, said he had no memory of the briefing, but he did not dispute that it had taken place, according to a transcript of his testimony.
[21:24] (DStewart) Death to Giuliani for that!
[21:25] (Ralphi) i like Giuliani - and I don't frankly think taht americans will give one shit to the inside NYC pre-911 politics that he dealt with
[21:25] (DStewart) How about the person who illegally leaked grand jury testimony?
[21:25] (Ralphi) hey dstewart: did you read that DC appellate court opinion on the second amendment?
[21:25] (DStewart) ralphi, no.
[21:25] (DStewart) I... I can't read.
[21:26] (duffsterr) yeah, blow jobs and spermies left over on a dress are good to go..... sup......... and btw, he LIED abt it..... thx for the call.....
[21:26] (Thrawn) perhaps not a general election but the primaries will be tough
[21:26] (Ralphi) dstewart: you left!
[21:26] (Ralphi) you left #iran
[21:27] (DStewart) Yeah... it was dead
[21:27] (Thrawn) bushie has definitely made the base more cynical
[21:27] (DStewart) "bushie"
[21:27] (Thrawn) ;)
[21:27] (DStewart) haw haw haw!
[21:27] (Ralphi) bushie?
[21:27] (DStewart) Why not "chimpy"?
[21:27] (DStewart) It's Chimpy McHitler!
[21:27] (Thrawn) i didn't mean much it just came out
[21:28] (DStewart) President Select Chimpy BusHitler
[21:28] (Eeyore) DStewart how ya doing tonight?
[21:28] (DStewart) Fine, eeore, and yu?
[21:28] (DStewart) eeyore you
[21:28] * DStewart smacks self
[21:28] * MikeyD is gone.. autoaway after 15 min (cyp/log)
[21:28] (Ralphi) in #iran:
[21:28] (Ralphi) [22:27] (Ralphi) I think the United States, Britain or Israel will bomb Iran soon
[21:28] (Ralphi) [22:28] (ejay79) yeah i think so too.
[21:28] (Ralphi) [22:28] (Ralphi) one can only hope
[21:28] (Ralphi) *grin*
[21:29] (Eeyore) DStewart well, I had my usual Thursday night Juerga so of course Im drunk and debating smoking again. other than that ownderfull
[21:29] (Ralphi) oh go ahead and smoke
[21:29] (Ralphi) what is juerga?
[21:29] (Eeyore) Juerga is a gypsy style flamenco party.
[21:29] (Eeyore) its a lot of fun
[21:30] (DStewart) ANd you do this every Thurs eve?
[21:30] (Eeyore) women dance, men play everyone learns stuff
[21:30] (_HellMngr) gypsys
[21:30] (_HellMngr) ew
[21:30] (Eeyore) yeah but some thursdays are grea and otehrs lame
[21:30] (_HellMngr) filthy crooked rotten people
[21:30] (DStewart) Oh well
[21:30] (Eeyore) _HellMngr some aspects of Gypsy culture are fucking excellent and otehrs are not
[21:30] (DStewart) Still, such regular events are nice
[21:30] (_HellMngr) like living in trailer parks and stealing?
[21:31] (DStewart) Most Friday nights I play in my basement band.
[21:31] (_HellMngr) (/racism)
[21:31] (IRIB) Iran still captured 15 british sailors
[21:31] (IRIB) :D
[21:31] (_HellMngr) yeah
[21:31] (DStewart) Still captured?
[21:31] (_HellMngr) it's not like the brits fought back
[21:31] (DStewart) Strange locution
[21:31] (IRIB) thats good
[21:31] (_HellMngr) they sort of let it happen
[21:31] (IRIB) yes
[21:31] (IRIB) im Iranian
[21:31] (_HellMngr) IRIB: Do you support Dinnerjacket?
[21:31] (DStewart) And I'm PomIranian
[21:32] (_HellMngr) awww
[21:32] (_HellMngr) that sucks
[21:32] (_HellMngr) i wanted to dialogue.
[21:32] (DStewart) HllMngr is the Queen of England
[21:32] (_HellMngr) IRIB: Do you support Dinnerjacket?
[21:32] (DStewart) Eeyore is the Duke of Habooabooa
[21:33] (_HellMngr) the voice bot sure is slow today
[21:33] (DStewart) LOL: "IRIB: fuck u"
[21:33] (DStewart) I didn't know Iranians used Prince spelling
[21:33] (Eeyore) ok let me be clear. the same thing is true for Musklims Gypsies whatever. culture IS NOT the same as race ok? Culture, religion DOES dictate behaviours race much less so
[21:33] (_HellMngr) I know.
[21:33] (duffsterr) whoa
[21:34] (duffsterr) another blue dog....
[21:34] (Eeyore) and YES Islam ells people what to do and Gypsies have a culture whihc is quite dirent from western peoples ideas of property
[21:34] (Eeyore) no comment?
[21:35] (_HellMngr) I'll comment
[21:35] (_HellMngr) It'll just be more rhetoric
[21:35] (Eeyore) anyway Gypsy musics are the best on earth. other aspects of their culture are other aspects
[21:35] (_HellMngr) but since you invited it
[21:35] (Eeyore) _HellMngr this is a debate chanel is it not?\
[21:35] (_HellMngr) Western idea of property is "I bought this. I own it."
[21:35] (Eeyore) of course I invited it
[21:35] (_HellMngr) Gypsy idea of property is: "I stole this. I own it."
[21:36] (Eeyore) _HellMngr correct
[21:36] (Ralphi) drudge is reporting that the iranians masturbate
[21:36] (FreeTrad3) Abusive Domain or User
[21:36] (_HellMngr) Ralphi: Everybody masturbates.
[21:36] (_HellMngr) except me because i'm oh-so-fucking-pure.
[21:36] (Eeyore) no 80 % of men masturbate and 20 % of men are liars
[21:36] (_HellMngr) i'm sure there is a decent % of men who could honestly say they don't masturbate frequently.
[21:37] (Eeyore) _HellMngr yes ones who have hot women
[21:37] (_HellMngr) or even just average women who put out
[21:37] (astrodog) TT: Thanks.
[21:37] (_HellMngr) anyway
[21:37] (_HellMngr) I should conclude our discussion on gypsies by saying something abhorrent.
[21:38] (_HellMngr) like...
[21:38] (_HellMngr) Gypsies are a blight on society and it's a shame that hitler let some get away.
[21:38] (astrodog) TT: Do you have a sec?
[21:38] (Eeyore) but I prefer masturbation to actual women. for example, the other night i conjured up a fantasy of Christina Reichi and Marylyn Munroe and you know, I think thats the first time those 2 women have ever appeared in anything together
[21:38] (_Forbin) bhahaha
[21:38] (_HellMngr) eeyore: I'm sure Anna Nicole Smith was in the same room as Ricci.
[21:38] (Ralphi) EVERYBODY JOIN #IRAN
[21:39] (_HellMngr) And she was essentially a fat clone of marilyn.
[21:39] (_HellMngr) and a total smack addict.
[21:39] (underling) im in #iran
[21:39] (underling) wats the chan for
[21:39] (Eeyore) _HellMngr I know a few GYpsies and the ones I know are fucking outstanding people. and to be fair, they have given the world the best music there is. whats the cost for that)? well thats another discusiuon,
[21:40] (_HellMngr) Eeyore: but would you lend them the keys to your car? ehhh?
[21:40] (duffsterr) gnite all, i have to sleep someday....
[21:40] (astrodog) TT: I want this to go away. PM me when you have some time, okay?
[21:40] (Eeyore) _HellMngr no
[21:41] (Eeyore) _HellMngr i wouldnt have to. if they wanted my car they would know how to steal it.
[21:41] (_HellMngr) heh
[21:41] (_HellMngr) you're making it hard for me to racist. =(
[21:41] (_HellMngr) you've totally taken all the fun out of my bigotry
[21:42] (Eeyore) _HellMngr this has sweet fuck all to do with racism. this is about culture.
[21:42] (US_Male) HI, a/s/l everyone
[21:42] (_HellMngr) Eeyore: So?
[21:42] (Eeyore) _HellMngr buttons?
[21:42] (_HellMngr) Eeyore: besides, they are a race of people, so we'll just tie the two together.
[21:42] (astrodog) USM: just wants the cybersexc.
[21:42] (astrodog) :P
[21:42] (_HellMngr) Eeyore: Romanian nomads or whatever
[21:42] (US_Male) colin farrell sucks as an actor
[21:43] (_HellMngr) what about will ferrell?
[21:43] (Eeyore) _HellMngr i have serious problems with the current fasion of confusing griups based on culture behaviour religion and so on with actual race. I dont give a fuck. if your french its not a race. if your jewish Islamic gay or whatever its nto a race.
[21:43] (_HellMngr) well...
[21:43] (Eeyore) so you DONT get to claim discriminaton cause of these things
[21:43] (underling) durn gypsies stealin my chickens
[21:43] (_HellMngr) the jews technically are a race
[21:43] (_HellMngr) the hebrews
[21:43] (_HellMngr) vs. judaism
[21:43] (astrodog) USM: PM.
[21:44] (_HellMngr) and the french are a race.
[21:44] (_HellMngr) a race of dirty cowards
[21:44] (_HellMngr) and filthy liars and cheats
[21:44] (underling) and cheese eaters
[21:44] (US_Male) pm?
[21:44] (_HellMngr) hey
[21:44] (_HellMngr) i eat cheese
[21:44] (_HellMngr) i love cheese
[21:44] (_HellMngr) and i'll kill you if you don't
[21:44] (underling) lol
[21:44] (astrodog) Private Message.
[21:44] (Ralphi) the us invaded iraq and france surrendered
[21:44] (_HellMngr) OFF WITH HIS HEAD
[21:44] (underling) i eat feta
[21:44] (_HellMngr) feta is awesome
[21:44] (US_Male) astrodog: R U HAWT
[21:44] (_HellMngr) so is gorgonzola
[21:44] (Eeyore) _HellMngr you wnanna know somwrhitng? Im not a stupid guy. I think everything through as carefully as I can. and in my 47 years of life I have yet to hear ONE defintion of what jews are and guess what..... I A M O N E
[21:44] (_HellMngr) and bleu cheese
[21:44] (astrodog) USM: Damn right.
[21:45] (astrodog) Now, go to /query.
[21:45] (US_Male) lol
[21:45] (astrodog) :P
[21:45] (_HellMngr) Eeyore: I can't respect you anymore because you're a zionist pig.
[21:45] (Eeyore) hahahahaa
[21:45] (US_Male) don't see a query message
[21:45] (Eeyore) fair enough
[21:45] (underling) i donno im all greek food so feta is all i really try lately
[21:45] (_HellMngr) Eeyore: Why did you personally bomb the sewage plant in gaza?
[21:45] (Eeyore) _HellMngr i like the smell
[21:45] (_HellMngr) Eeyore: What's it like to make matzo from the blood of palestinian babies?
[21:46] (underling) thems fighing words
[21:46] (astrodog) Hell: Meaty.
[21:46] (astrodog) :P
[21:46] (_HellMngr) Eeyore: and can you give me the recipe? mine always comes out lumpy.
[21:46] (Eeyore) _HellMngr its like making bread from genitle women's tampons
[21:46] (_HellMngr) do they have to be palestinian children or will any child do?
[21:46] (astrodog) Pals or Mexicans.
[21:46] (astrodog) USM: 2 sent.
[21:46] (Eeyore) :*)
[21:46] (_HellMngr) mexicans smell totally different.
[21:46] (astrodog) Sure you don't have me on ignore? :P
[21:46] (_HellMngr) i imagine they are spicier too
[21:46] (astrodog) Hell: You need peppers to go with those.
[21:46] (astrodog) Yeah.
[21:46] (US_Male) maybe they went to my other client?
[21:47] (astrodog) AH!
[21:47] (_HellMngr) At least they are not like the irish
[21:47] (_HellMngr) where you get a cheap drunk
[21:47] (Eeyore) this chanel rocks. anyway Im off towatch a few episodes of Father ted, will be back soon.thank you al for being ho you are.
[21:47] (_HellMngr) take care
[21:47] (_HellMngr) turkeys can fly
[21:47] (_HellMngr) just not very far
[21:50] (rlc) more news, less nesman..
[21:50] (TheTailor) Father tEd?
[21:50] (TheTailor) err, Ted
[21:51] (underling) Father Ed
[21:52] (astrodog) TT: Got a bit?
[21:54] (TheTailor) NO, and stop bothering me.
[21:54] (astrodog) TT: C'mon. Deal with my BS, this one time?
[21:55] (starly) astrodog, you are devoiced (Requested by TheTailor )
[21:55] (Ralphi) HI DAGNY YOU SLUT
[21:55] (TheTailor) The U.N. Security Council expressed "grave concern" Thursday over Iran's seizure of 15 British sailors and marines and called for an early resolution of the escalating dispute, but Iran's chief international negotiator suggested the captives might be put on trial
[21:56] * dagny is now known as ___GAY___
[21:56] (TheTailor) Like we didn't know that
[21:57] (underling) gah, now hes polluting #iran
[21:58] (TheTailor) Who is?
[21:58] (underling) dagny
[21:59] (Ralphi) dagny is my friend on #nau
[21:59] (Ralphi) she is cool
[21:59] (Ralphi) thetailor: can you give her voice?
[21:59] (TheTailor) The Security Council's statement was a watered-down version of a stronger draft sought by Britain to "deplore" Iranian actions and urge the immediate release of the prisoners, primarily because Russia and South Africa opposed putting blame on the Tehran regime, diplomats said.
[21:59] (TheTailor) sure
[22:00] (TheTailor) if she's here thatis
[22:00] (_HellMngr) opposed?
[22:00] (_HellMngr) go russia
[22:00] (_HellMngr) you fucking asshats
[22:00] (Ralphi) thetailor: dagny gives good head so voice her
[22:00] (TheTailor) haha, ok
[22:00] (dagny) hoora
[22:01] (dagny) i can't believe people give voices to other ppl recommended by ralphi
[22:01] (dagny) anytime i have done that it has led to certain disaster
[22:01] (US_Male) that is pretty messed up
[22:01] (TheTailor) Russia also objected to the council adopting Britain's position that its sailors were operating in Iraqi waters when they were captured,
[22:01] (TheTailor) Fuckers
[22:01] (fordnut) hey man
[22:01] (Ralphi) russia can't be trusted
[22:01] (fordnut) they need that iranian money to keep coming
[22:02] (TheTailor) dagny, well I had some reservations.
[22:02] (fordnut) for that reactor thats about to get pwnd
[22:02] (Ralphi) haha
[22:02] (Ralphi) hey now
[22:02] (TheTailor) dagny, why isn't the bot voicing you anyway?
[22:02] (dagny) i would cuz i think ethan only tries to incite people
[22:02] (Ralphi) i should have ops around here
[22:02] (US_Male) I remember for about 3 weeks after 9/11 when people pretended to be our friends
[22:02] (TheTailor) Have you been naughty?
[22:02] (Ralphi) tt: identd
[22:02] (US_Male) sigh. GOod old days
[22:02] (TheTailor) Oh
[22:02] (dagny) because apparently cox.net has a bunch of tards on it that are giving you hell
[22:02] (dagny) so therefore i must also be that way
[22:03] (e-Hernick) Bad news everybody, the Taliban is coming back
[22:03] (e-Hernick) According to Canadian General Rick Hillier
[22:04] (e-Hernick) Canada has endured terrible losses during the Afghan anti-taliban war
[22:04] (underling) the taliban never left
[22:04] (US_Male) Rick Hitler ?
[22:04] (e-Hernick) More than 35 canadian soldiers died in 2006
[22:04] (Ralphi) Hitler did lead a strong economy
[22:04] (e-Hernick) http://www.cyberpresse.ca/apps/pbcs.dll/misc?url=/misc/zoom.pbs&Site=CP&Date=20070329&Category=CPACTUALITES&ArtNo=70329272&Ref=AR&Profile=6488&show=CPACTUALITES§ioncat=CPACTUALITES&cr=Photo%20Armand%20Trottier,%20La%20Presse&relart=%2Fapps%2Fpbcs.dll%2Farticle%3FAID%3D%2F20070329%2FCPACTUALITES%2F70329272%2F6488%2FCPACTUALITES
[22:04] (US_Male) I heard he was a snappy dresser
[22:04] (e-Hernick) what an ugly link
[22:05] (e-Hernick) that's general Rick Hillier
[22:05] (astrodog) Thanks, TT.
[22:05] (e-Hernick) he's one of the top dogs in afghanistan
[22:05] (e-Hernick) he commands american troops as well, because he's such a powerful general.
[22:05] (Ralphi) e-hernick: go to www.tinyurl.com
[22:05] (e-Hernick) America has understood that only Canada can provide the right kind of leadership for accomplishing the mission in Afghanistan
[22:05] (e-Hernick) however, Canada needs a lot more troops
[22:06] (e-Hernick) US soldiers, willing to fight under the orders of Canada.
[22:06] (US_Male) this movie is awful
[22:06] (US_Male) Miami Vice remake from last year
[22:06] (TheTailor) e-Hernick, I think US general is in charge now.
[22:06] (e-Hernick) What?
[22:06] (e-Hernick) How is the US in charge now?
[22:06] (TheTailor) Yeah, about a month ago
[22:06] (e-Hernick) This is bad news.
[22:07] (TheTailor) No, it's not bad news
[22:07] (e-Hernick) Wow. So things are going badly.
[22:07] (TheTailor) And no, things are not going badly.
[22:07] (e-Hernick) Only the canadian way can prevail.
[22:07] (TheTailor) In fact, all along Afghanistan has made progress, and the Canadians did do a very professional job.
[22:08] (e-Hernick) yeah, but now a top canadian general is saying that the taliban is going to come back strong, soon
[22:08] (TheTailor) Along with everyone else involved.
[22:08] (e-Hernick) because the winter is over
[22:08] (TheTailor) Well they always do something in the spring, or try to.
[22:09] * Ralphi is now known as eats
[22:09] (TheTailor) We (everyone involved) have been kicking the living shit out of them every spring though,a nd backing them into a corner.
[22:09] (US_Male) surely you don't suggest putting a maple-leaf-wearing general in charge
[22:09] (astrodog) TT: Check PM.
[22:09] (TheTailor) e-Hernick, I think it's important to recognize that ALL generals say shit like that, to get funding.
[22:10] (e-Hernick) US_Male: Rick Hillier said that Taliban are trash that must be slaughtered
[22:10] (US_Male) Rick Hitler ?
[22:10] (e-Hernick) No, Hillier, and even though both are vicious killing machines, there's no other link between the two
[22:10] (US_Male) c'mon now, Talibans are nice people
[22:10] (TheTailor) Astro, did you even pay attention to my message? I already told you I ignore your PM's, now leave me alone, for the last time.
[22:10] (TheTailor) e-Hernick, generals LOVE a battle
[22:10] (TheTailor) That's what they do
[22:11] (e-Hernick) exactly
[22:11] (astrodog) TT: As one last favor to me, okay?
[22:11] (e-Hernick) they fight
[22:11] (e-Hernick) but when the fight doesn't go well
[22:11] (TheTailor) Astro, you are trying my patience.
[22:11] (astrodog) TT: I don't want to. I just want a bit of your time.
[22:11] (US_Male) cybersecks
[22:11] (e-Hernick) when they're stuck in a town full of radical islamic suicide-troopers
[22:11] (starly) astrodog is banned (Requested by TheTailor )
[22:11] (TheTailor) idiot
[22:11] (eats) poor astrodog *grin*
[22:11] (e-Hernick) and where the cheap bomb is more popular than the gun..
[22:12] (e-Hernick) it's not a nice place to be
[22:12] (TheTailor) e-Hernick, the Taliban isn't much of a force in any way these days
[22:12] (e-Hernick) they're invisible
[22:13] (e-Hernick) and Rick Hillier agrees, the Taliban has been calm this winter, but he thinks that the Taliban will Surge massively
[22:13] (TheTailor) They will get a few hiundred together, then they kill them all on a path in the mountains, or in a villiage...
[22:13] (e-Hernick) the taliban can become invisible
[22:13] (TheTailor) Massively huh, yeah, I expect to hear that from a general
[22:13] (e-Hernick) and regroup without disruption
[22:13] (TheTailor) They don't regroup when they are dead.
[22:13] (e-Hernick) talibanism is like a cancer
[22:13] (_HellMngr) the taliban is going to surge
[22:13] (e-Hernick) it spread rapidly
[22:14] (_HellMngr) i hear the taliban is able to field battalion sized forces now
[22:14] (e-Hernick) the taliban can come to a village and recruit 100 new people
[22:14] (TheTailor) They haven't put together a 1000 man force in several years
[22:14] (dagny) i hear the taliban are hoarding all the Nintendo Wii's
[22:14] (e-Hernick) the taliban operate in small cells
[22:14] (TheTailor) hahaha, a battalion :-)
[22:14] (e-Hernick) they concentrate on suicide attacks and explosive bombings
[22:14] (e-Hernick) and other forms of terror
[22:14] (_HellMngr) the SPRING OFFENSIVE
[22:14] (e-Hernick) because they are terrorirsts
[22:15] (e-Hernick) that's the taliban, we need to crush it
[22:15] (e-Hernick) we need to crush every last taliban down to a bloody pulp
[22:15] (TheTailor) e-Hernick, actually there aren't many of those either, they are confinded to the south, way away from Kabul
[22:15] (eats) the taliban sucks
[22:15] (_HellMngr) yeah
[22:15] (_HellMngr) the problem is they are regrouping out of our reach
[22:15] (_HellMngr) in rural pakistan
[22:15] (_HellMngr) and we can't go there.
[22:15] (eats) swigert!
[22:15] (TheTailor) Let them, then they road march in through the mountains, and a preditor picks them up...BOOM.
[22:15] (e-Hernick) TheTailor: well, as I said, I agree that right now the taliban *looks* weak, but my point is, it might have been regenerating massively during the winter, and it could easily be twice as strong this year as the last
[22:16] (Swigert) hello there everyone
[22:16] (Swigert) hi eats
[22:16] (eats) hi swigert
[22:16] (eats) i'm ralphi
[22:16] * eats is now known as ralphi
[22:16] (TheTailor) e-Hernick, massively? How many in a masively?
[22:16] (ralphi) in the old days i was eats
[22:16] (e-Hernick) the taliban is like the flu, only, it hibernates and regenerates during the winter, and attacks during the summer, but you never know how strong it's going to come back
[22:16] (_HellMngr) yeah
[22:16] (_HellMngr) they are fair weather fighters
[22:16] (_HellMngr) they don't come out in the rain
[22:16] (TheTailor) e-Hernick, you are overestimating them.
[22:16] (e-Hernick) I don't know, I'm saying, maybe 2 to 10 times stronger than last summer, maybe more?
[22:16] (Swigert) ehernick: yet every time they come out, they get routed
[22:16] (e-Hernick) We never know
[22:16] (TheTailor) e-Hernick, that's nonsense
[22:16] (ralphi) the taliban sucks, lets change the subject
[22:17] (_HellMngr) Some people are predicting that we could have BIG problems with the taliban this year
[22:17] (TheTailor) If it was double, how many would it be? 800?
[22:17] (dagny) i think we can all agree they are like termites
[22:17] (_HellMngr) they get routed because we are superior warriors.
[22:17] (e-Hernick) TheTailor: this is what the top canadian general says
[22:17] (dagny) u fill up the hole and they just start eating up elsewhere and pop out another wall
[22:17] (_HellMngr) if they attacked with 800 men
[22:17] (_HellMngr) what would we do?
[22:17] (e-Hernick) TheTailor: that the taliban will come back..
[22:17] (TheTailor) e-Hernick, we've been over that.
[22:17] (e-Hernick) so I don't know, but I trust him, it might come back. We'll see.
[22:17] (_HellMngr) 800 men is a lot of men
[22:17] (Swigert) I hoped that the Taliban would hand over Bin Laden on 9/12 = "Sorry for all the trouble. Hope this helps. Love, the Taliban." But they decided not to. Bad idea.
[22:17] (TheTailor) They will come back, but never "massively".
[22:17] (US_Male) e-Hernick: well, at least the Americans are in charge, right ?
[22:17] (TheTailor) 800 is nothing
[22:18] (_HellMngr) 800 men at once is a lot of men
[22:18] (TheTailor) It's not even a battalion.
[22:18] (e-Hernick) the taliban will never have 800 men in the same place
[22:18] (TheTailor) It's half a battalion.
[22:18] (Swigert) 800 Cdn Infantry, Royal Marines or british Paratroops, or US Marines could make a huge difference
[22:18] (e-Hernick) they could have 800 men spread in teams of 4, and place 200 bombs at the same time
[22:18] (Swigert) that's more like a full strnegth Battatlion
[22:18] (TheTailor) e-Hernick, well yeah, they are all in the very south, so they are somewhat concentrated.
[22:18] (_HellMngr) a US battalion can have around 300-1000 battalion
[22:18] (_HellMngr) err, 300-1000 men
[22:18] (thebarry) when is blair going to bomb iran?
[22:18] (TheTailor) _HellMngr, 1600
[22:18] (US_Male) shhh don't tell him secrets
[22:18] (thebarry) they need to hit irans oil lines
[22:18] (ralphi) thebarry: the sooner the better
[22:18] (Swigert) no way - not 1600
[22:19] (e-Hernick) the USA usually only attacks when it has a huge advantage
[22:19] (thebarry) it would hurt us, but it would hurt them a lot more
[22:19] (e-Hernick) I mean, if the USA isn't confident of killing 10 enemy soldiers for every one it loses
[22:19] (TheTailor) Yes, 1600, 4 working companies and support.
[22:19] (e-Hernick) it rarely attacks
[22:19] (thebarry) like after pearl harbor e-Hernick?
[22:19] (_HellMngr) between 3 to 5 companies
[22:19] (thebarry) oh
[22:19] (e-Hernick) thebarry: no I'm talking about modern battles
[22:19] (_HellMngr) between 300-120 soldiers
[22:19] (_HellMngr) is what wikipedia says
[22:19] (thebarry) yah
[22:19] (TheTailor) e-Hernick, they do much better than 10:1 with the Taliban
[22:19] (Swigert) ehernick: the iraqi army outnumbered the US/British force in 2003 - but we held vast technologial superiority
[22:19] (TheTailor) _HellMngr, I was in the Army, were you?
[22:19] (e-Hernick) TheTailor: so in your opinion what is the biggest problem with afghanistan, if not the taliban?
[22:20] (_HellMngr) No
[22:20] (TheTailor) _HellMngr, was the writer at wiki?
[22:20] (_HellMngr) How the hell should I know?
[22:20] (_HellMngr) It's not like wiki is accredited
[22:20] (TheTailor) e-Hernick, how did you arrive at that)
[22:20] (TheTailor) ?
[22:20] (Swigert) with whole battalions of Apaches flying out in front, Abrams close behind, all backed up by US and UK airpower and artillery - Saddam's army didn't have a chance
[22:20] (e-Hernick) TheTailor: this way, of course
[22:20] (panini) wiki is better than accredited
[22:20] (_HellMngr) yeah
[22:20] (_HellMngr) it's DIScredited
[22:21] (panini) lol
[22:21] (TheTailor) Preditors are flying day and night over southern Afghanistan.
[22:21] (panini) except it’s more accurate on the whole than any other source
[22:21] (e-Hernick) TheTailor: armed?
[22:21] (e-Hernick) how many predators are we talking about?
[22:21] (e-Hernick) 1000? 2500?
[22:21] (TheTailor) They can see individuals at night, clearly, there isn't any place for the Taliban to hid
[22:21] (e-Hernick) I mean, you can't really cover much with less than 2500
[22:21] (TheTailor) I don't know how many Preditors.
[22:22] (e-Hernick) I think there are only a couple
[22:22] (e-Hernick) mostly for show
[22:22] (TheTailor) ?
[22:22] (e-Hernick) there are not enough
[22:22] (TheTailor) Can't cover much? Are you nuts?
[22:22] (e-Hernick) not nearly enough predators
[22:22] (Swigert) then there's the AC-130
[22:22] (_HellMngr) suspicion is that taliban is training in pakistan
[22:22] (TheTailor) They fly for 12-16 hours straight
[22:22] (_HellMngr) and thats where they are hiding
[22:22] (e-Hernick) you need to put 1000 predators in the air at all times
[22:22] (_HellMngr) where we can't see them
[22:22] (_HellMngr) 1000 predators would take a lot of men to support
[22:22] (TheTailor) AC-130 is called in when Preditor finds a target.
[22:22] (e-Hernick) _HellMngr: sure, but the USA can do it
[22:22] (ralphi) yay USA
[22:22] (_HellMngr) how many men are in afghanistan from the USA?
[22:23] (e-Hernick) set up a predator service depot
[22:23] (Swigert) ah yes the AC-130 = proof that God hates terrorists - just sort of creeps up at you during the night, and all of a sudden *BOOM*
[22:23] (TheTailor) There are probably about 100 Preditors, no way are there 1000's
[22:23] (e-Hernick) and a number of predator launch bases
[22:23] (Swigert) about 15,000
[22:23] (e-Hernick) maybe 25 predator airfields, small fortresses, all across afghanistan
[22:23] (e-Hernick) they also let the army respond rapidly to any crisis anywhere in the country
[22:23] (TheTailor) Preditors are flown in Florida I think, that's where the pilots are I mean
[22:23] (e-Hernick) with at least 50 predators in range to launch a missile within a few minutes
[22:24] (_HellMngr) must be nice to kill taliban and then go home and sleep next to your wife.
[22:24] (Swigert) hell: oh yeah
[22:24] (e-Hernick) you control the predators from America
[22:24] (e-Hernick) or from a data center in indian
[22:24] (Swigert) ehernick: isn;t that the neatest thing?
[22:24] (TheTailor) Yes, I think Florida and Colorado
[22:24] (TheTailor) India doesn';t have anything to do with it.
[22:24] (e-Hernick) yes it is, with multiple redundant links, satellite, and ground-based transatlantic fiber and then ground relay
[22:24] (Swigert) Sen McCain said it right - this enemy can follow us home
[22:25] (Swigert) ehernick: pity we can't fight all wars like this
[22:25] (TheTailor) The military has all it's own sats..
[22:25] (e-Hernick) the enemy can't jam the predators
[22:25] (ralphi) do ray me
[22:25] (e-Hernick) we need to ramp up the number of predators massively
[22:25] (TheTailor) The Taliban can't jam anything.
[22:25] (e-Hernick) afghanistan should become a military surveillance society
[22:25] (e-Hernick) with constant surveillance of all villages
[22:25] (e-Hernick) and very frequent surveillance of all terrain
[22:25] (_HellMngr) the taliban could jam if unscrupulous types in the west were to sell them the revelent technology
[22:25] (Swigert) wouldn;'t it be nice to be able to wage wars against other countries from the US
[22:25] (TheTailor) e-Hernick, no, we don't, if we need more they will get them.
[22:25] (e-Hernick) at least 1000 predators in the sky at all times, maybe more
[22:25] (Swigert) robotic weapons
[22:26] (e-Hernick) robotic weapons are the best
[22:26] (Swigert) then we can rule the world!!!
[22:26] (TheTailor) They are starting to use them on the US Mexican border.
[22:26] (e-Hernick) the basic robotic weapon is the automatic suicide bomber
[22:26] (e-Hernick) or missile
[22:26] (e-Hernick) the digital kamikaze
[22:26] (Swigert) heck - build a Death Star
[22:26] (e-Hernick) build a Stone Burner
[22:26] (e-Hernick) makes everybody blind
[22:26] (Swigert) the US has a death star= they can say to Iran "now, be nice."
[22:26] (e-Hernick) just go through villages and make everybody blind
[22:26] (Swigert) or we vaporize a large section of their country
[22:26] (e-Hernick) that'll weaken the taliban
[22:27] (ralphi) i hope we bomb iran - i would be so happy
[22:27] (ralphi) i would throw a "we bombed iran party"
[22:27] (e-Hernick) ralphi: with tactical nukes I say
[22:27] (_HellMngr) i'm sure iranian islamic sleeper cells would throw a party too.
[22:27] (e-Hernick) and do what?
[22:27] (_HellMngr) blow some shit up
[22:27] (_HellMngr) now
[22:27] (_HellMngr) is a tactical nuke
[22:27] (e-Hernick) detonate a few kilos of shit?
[22:27] (_HellMngr) is that bigger or smaller than the one we dropped on hiroshima?
[22:27] (e-Hernick) the terrorist cells can't make large bombs anymore
[22:28] (_HellMngr) why not?
[22:28] (e-Hernick) they can maybe kill a few thousand if they all strike at once
[22:28] (TheTailor) No goods to make big bombs
[22:28] (e-Hernick) tt exactly
[22:28] (e-Hernick) do you know anybody that sells large amounts of explosives or ammonium nitrate to arabs
[22:28] (TheTailor) They have been resorting to chlorine in tankers
[22:28] (TheTailor) They are out of atry shells
[22:29] (TheTailor) Arty
[22:29] (TheTailor) They could flee Sadr City, but they couldn't take those shells
[22:29] (TheTailor) We are finding them
[22:29] (TheTailor) And of course we've blown up something like 700 million tons of munitions
[22:30] (e-Hernick) and killing 10 of them or more for every american they kill
[22:30] (_HellMngr) yeah
[22:30] (_HellMngr) we are vastly superior fighters
[22:30] (e-Hernick) maybe we should raise the ratio to 100:1
[22:30] (tnzr) http://www.flickr.com/photos/aggiebell/226662623/in/photostream/
[22:30] * tnzr hides
[22:30] (e-Hernick) but that would mean some extra undesirable casualties
[22:30] (TheTailor) e-Hernick, in Afghanistan it may be 50:1
[22:30] (_HellMngr) they have a few good warriors.
[22:30] (e-Hernick) 50:1 is pretty good
[22:30] (ralphi) nice plate
[22:30] (_HellMngr) but they die with the rest of them
[22:30] (Swigert) This invasion and occupation of Afghanistan has been the safest and least costly ever
[22:30] (e-Hernick) it means we hunt them down like rats
[22:30] (tnzr) i read that we shoot 100,000 rounds for every insurgent that we kill
[22:31] (e-Hernick) and they have no chance
[22:31] (Swigert) but this is what happens when you bring the factions together, however loosely, instead of pitting them against the occupier
[22:31] (TheTailor) Swigert, Iraq is pretty good too, fora war.
[22:31] (Swigert) tnzr: oh that's a big improvement
[22:31] (tnzr) that alone tips the scales in our favor heh
[22:31] (TheTailor) tnzr, where did you hear that?
[22:31] (Swigert) tailor: we were in Korea for less time and suffered 10x as many deaths
[22:31] (tnzr) having that much ammo at our disposal
[22:31] (US_Male) I heard picgs can fly
[22:31] (TheTailor) tnzr, you know of course that's just plain bullshit
[22:32] (tnzr) TheTailor: there was a news story a while back regarding bullet shortages
[22:32] (US_Male) -c
[22:32] (TheTailor) tnzr, it's nonsense
[22:32] (_HellMngr) stupid war driving up the cost of ammunition domestically
[22:32] (panini) well once again the UN proves it’s a pussy: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070330/ap_on_re_mi_ea/british_seized_iran
[22:32] (ralphi) ITS PANINI
[22:32] (TheTailor) haha, a shortage of bullets :-)
[22:32] (US_Male) 100k is not plausible
[22:32] (panini) hey ralphi!
[22:32] (e-Hernick) we need to give our soldiers more powerful weapons
[22:32] (ralphi) how you?
[22:32] (panini) long time no type :)
[22:32] (tnzr) TheTailor: why?
[22:33] (tnzr) US-Male: its probably mjore than that
[22:33] (TheTailor) Yeah, we are running out of bullets, we only have a7 billion left, stock is low :-)
[22:33] (tnzr) think about the amount spam
[22:33] (US_Male) tnzr: no, there's no way it can be that high
[22:33] (US_Male) be realisic
[22:33] (tnzr) US-Male: sure it can!!
[22:33] (US_Male) tnzr; in make-believe world
[22:33] (tnzr) TheTailor: google "ammo shortage US Army"
[22:33] (tnzr) US-Male: think abou tit
[22:33] (panini) we need to give our soldiers better ROE
[22:33] (US_Male) you'd have to waste 100 rounds, and do that 1000 times in a row
[22:33] (tnzr) if a SAW holds 300 rounds and you are in a 4-hour long firefight
[22:33] (US_Male) tnzr: I am, that's how I knows it's BS
[22:34] (pilgrim`) they need more .223? I can make some
[22:34] (US_Male) you'd have to waste 100 rounds, and do that 1000 times in a row
[22:34] (US_Male) not plausible as an average
[22:34] (US_Male) get real
[22:34] (tnzr) BS
[22:34] (tnzr) how many soldiers in iraq?
[22:34] (e-Hernick) uhm
[22:34] (tnzr) how many firefights?
[22:34] (US_Male) that's horseshit.
[22:34] (e-Hernick) every soldier should fire 100 bullets a day at cutouts of terrorists, for practice
[22:34] (tnzr) how many bullets actually hit a target?
[22:34] (TheTailor) tnzr, I don't have to, we here at Ft Hood have bunkers in the mesas her that are a mile long by 60' wide and tall, FULL of bullets.
[22:34] (tnzr) no way its bullshit
[22:34] (e-Hernick) we want to train them to shoot better
[22:34] (US_Male) you'd have to waste on AVERAGE, 100 rounds, and do that 1000 times in a row
[22:34] (Swigert) A journalist noticed that you could tell which were US and Cdn troops and who were Al Qaeda and Taliban = the US and Cdn were firing either single shots or in bursts; the others were full auto
[22:34] (US_Male) day in, day out
[22:34] (tnzr) TheTailor: i dont think it meant "shortage" as in they were close to running out
[22:34] (e-Hernick) we need 100 bullets per soldier per day
[22:34] (US_Male) get real
[22:34] (TheTailor) tnzr, I assure you, it is bullshit.
[22:34] (e-Hernick) for training
[22:34] (tnzr) moreso that they needed to crank up bullet production to keep up wtih the amount we were using
[22:35] (tnzr) US-Male: thats not unlikely
[22:35] (panini) lol
[22:35] (e-Hernick) crank it up
[22:35] (e-Hernick) crank up consumption of bullets here at home to
[22:35] (US_Male) tnzr: of course it is. You're in fantasy land
[22:35] (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army to know that lots of rounds get used as suppressing fire, misses all the time, etc
[22:35] (tnzr) US-Male: no im not.
[22:35] (US_Male) LOL
[22:35] (e-Hernick) the government should start subsidizing guns and ammo
[22:35] (US_Male) tnzr: HAHAHAH
[22:35] (e-Hernick) giving 200$ back to any family that buys a gun
[22:35] (TheTailor) tnzr, there isn't a shortage, they may want to fill the stocks, but the US military will NEVER run out of fucking bullets, ever.
[22:35] (US_Male) (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army .....................
[22:35] (Swigert) better to waste a little bit of ammo than a few lives
[22:35] (US_Male) LOL
[22:35] (US_Male) oh my farking goawd
[22:35] (TheTailor) haha, it's laughable.
[22:35] (tnzr) FYI TheTailor: http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/ksil75.pdf
[22:36] (Swigert) tailor: a Canadian company is a major supplier of .223 rounds to the US military
[22:36] (US_Male) "ive played enough americas army" to know !!
[22:36] (tnzr) dont go dissing that source either, its fucking army.mil
[22:36] (US_Male) get the fuck outta here
[22:36] (US_Male) rofl
[22:36] (TheTailor) Swigert,and I bet theya re making a ton of money.
[22:36] (tnzr) US-Male: get to reading
[22:36] (Swigert) I've played enought Battlefield 2 to know that I suck as a soldier
[22:36] (pilgrim`) Lprefer lake City
[22:36] (ralphi) i have to go to sleep now
[22:36] (Swigert) tailor: oh yes
[22:36] (ralphi) you can e-mail me ifyou want to
[22:36] (US_Male) tnzr: go play more "america's army"
[22:36] (pilgrim`) Lack City; good quality ammo
[22:36] (_HellMngr) i've played enough battlefield 2142 to know that giant mechs can crush infantry forces.
[22:36] (puella) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKQgTiqhPbw speakers on
[22:36] (ralphi) rxbenzodiazepine@yahoo.com
[22:36] (US_Male) haw haw
[22:36] (tnzr) US-Male: you joke but you dont know wtf you are talking about
[22:36] (TheTailor) tnzr, army.mil will always say anything to gain funds, liek generals saying it's going to be tough, we need more money.
[22:37] (tnzr) ahh ok
[22:37] (TheTailor) They ALWAYS say that shit
[22:37] (US_Male) tnzr: you were caught bullshitting and tried to defend it with a video game
[22:37] (US_Male) face facts
[22:37] (tnzr) so now the army is lying to get more funds jesus christ
[22:37] (tnzr) US-Male: caught bullshitting?
[22:37] (Swigert) I was just playing BF2 - 2 enemy in a jeep tried to drive into my HQ - I took them out with a TOW missile; then they tried the same thing again, with the same result. I couldn't believe it
[22:37] (US_Male) CAUGHT BULLSHITTING
[22:37] (tnzr) I said I heard a fucking news story
[22:37] (e-Hernick) the army uses 1.5 billion rounds per year
[22:37] (US_Male) yepper
[22:37] (tnzr) and I believe it
[22:37] (TheTailor) tnzr, they have said that since time began
[22:37] (tnzr) how is that "caught bullshitting"
[22:37] (US_Male) and tried to defend it with a video game !
[22:37] (US_Male) you fail
[22:37] (panini) Swigert, ever read the book “ender’s game”?
[22:37] (US_Male) (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army .....................
[22:37] (US_Male) hee hee
[22:38] (US_Male) ok back to my movie.
[22:38] (tnzr) US-Male: the video game is a fucking combat sim and if youd ever played it youd know how firefights are a gargantuan waste of ammo, probably moreso in the real life, jackass
[22:38] (US_Male) tnzr: stfu noob
[22:38] (tnzr) pfft
[22:38] (panini) basically, they pick the kid who is the best at video games to lead the military
[22:38] (Swigert) panini: no
[22:38] (tnzr) go back to your movie
[22:38] (US_Male) tnzr: you ignorant ducksmoker
[22:38] (US_Male) (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army .....................
[22:38] (US_Male) HAR HAR
[22:38] (tnzr) 12:41AM (US_Male) (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army .....................
[22:38] (TheTailor) tnzr, well no, I'm a former infantry sgt, we don't waste ammo, ever.
[22:38] (tnzr) look at me, I can paste too
[22:38] (US_Male) tnzr) 12:41AM (US_Male) (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army .....................
[22:38] (Swigert) tailor: good show
[22:38] (tnzr) TheTailor: waste as in bullets dont hit their targets
[22:38] (US_Male) good, paste bitch !
[22:38] (underling) lol, so those who do good at space invaders get to be AA defense?
[22:38] (Swigert) us-male appears to be having a good laugh
[22:38] (TheTailor) tnzr, there isn't any waste.
[22:38] (US_Male) I am =)
[22:39] (tnzr) TheTailor: well I believe that 100,000 rounds per kill is likely
[22:39] (e-Hernick) training uses up HUGE amounts of rounds
[22:39] (tnzr) given the amount of bullets that dont ever hit a human target
[22:39] (US_Male) tnzr played enough video games to know about war !!!
[22:39] (Swigert) us-male: I've played enough games to know one thing = they're not even close to the real thing
[22:39] (US_Male) HA
[22:39] (TheTailor) tnzr, that's because you are ain illinformed fool, that statment is simply stupid.
[22:39] (US_Male) HEE
[22:39] (underling) no america's army for me, i would prefer boot camp. or computer warfare training.
[22:39] (tnzr) US-Male fucked enough fatties to consider himself an honorary troll!
[22:39] (US_Male) Swigert: exACTLY
[22:39] (US_Male) tnzr is fat enough to BE a troll !
[22:39] (Swigert) us-male: but it makes me glad I don't have to fight - it is WAYYYYY too easy to die on the battlefield
[22:39] (tnzr) US-Male: well its a game made by the US army.. and its not real combat obviously, but the concept is the same.
[22:40] (Swigert) us-male: plus he has a bridge
[22:40] (US_Male) tnzr: shut the hell up, child
[22:40] (underling) no respawn in real life, what i always say
[22:40] (Swigert) AA is a decent game, but still a game - at least their weapons can jam
[22:40] (tnzr) US-Male: you shut the fuck up
[22:40] (Swigert) underling: true
[22:40] (tnzr) Swigert: its a great game
[22:40] (US_Male) tnzr; you go back to sucking off your boyfriend
[22:40] (e-Hernick) only jesus can respawn
[22:40] (tnzr) US-Male: and you call ME the child.
[22:40] * tnzr rofl
[22:40] (US_Male) you ignorant bitch!
[22:40] (US_Male) tnzr) 12:41AM (US_Male) (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army .....................
[22:40] (TheTailor) tnzr, lets say a squad takes a building with 3-5 bad guys, each man fires 2 30 round clips...that would be about 500 rounds
[22:41] * Swigert tries to calm US_male down
[22:41] (tnzr) TheTailor: and theyd be out of ammo in about 45 seconds
[22:41] (Swigert) tailor: they'd use frags first, then house clear
[22:41] * US_Male arms Swigert and sends him toward tnzr
[22:41] (tnzr) if thats all they had
[22:41] (TheTailor) tnzr, no they wouldn't you ass, you are comparing it to a video game, idiot.
[22:41] (US_Male) god... this tard thinks video games represent how people really fight
[22:41] (tnzr) TheTailor: thanks for calling me ass, and idiot
[22:41] (US_Male) jesus goddamn christ
[22:42] (US_Male) shoot him now
[22:42] (tnzr) I appreciate your civility, sir. Wish I could return the insult but I know what you'd do
[22:42] (tnzr) US_Male: you miss the fucking point, go back to your fucking movie already!
[22:42] (TheTailor) tnzr, that's because you are a wet behind the ears armchair soldier, you don't know shit about it.
[22:42] (underling) every game i have ever played does not bring %1 of the adrenaline of real combat
[22:42] (US_Male) tnzr: no bitch, now I will hammer your sad ass
[22:42] (tnzr) TheTailor: its simple math
[22:42] (Swigert) tailor: the US Army did make "America's Army" as a recruiting tool - but boy are those who joined up because of it in for a surprise
[22:42] (TheTailor) tnzr, I just gave you the simple math
[22:42] (tnzr) US-Male: hammer me eh, on IRC.. have fun wtih that.
[22:42] (tnzr) TheTailor: no you didnt
[22:42] (US_Male) simple math tnzr cannot comprehend !
[22:42] (tnzr) Your example was absolutely uneffective
[22:42] (TheTailor) tnzr, lets say a squad takes a building with 3-5 bad guys, each man fires 2 30 round clips...that would be about 500 rounds
[22:42] (underling) Swigert joining for a ame is rather sad.
[22:43] (TheTailor) tnzr, there it is again
[22:43] (underling) game*
[22:43] (US_Male) tnzr: you're stupid.
[22:43] (tnzr) TheTailor: wtf does that prove?
[22:43] (US_Male) god... this tard thinks video games represent how people really fight
[22:43] (tnzr) US-Male: we get it, im a tard
[22:43] (underling) tnzr isnt stupid, he just likes AA
[22:43] (tnzr) TheTailor: so what does that prove
[22:43] (TheTailor) tnzr, I'm telling you what the squad I run would use.
[22:43] (US_Male) tnzr: then shut the hell up and log out !
[22:43] (TheTailor) Pay attention
[22:43] (tnzr) TheTailor: ok and if those 500 rounds didnt kill the bad guys
[22:43] (tnzr) Im paying full attention, dont be a prick
[22:43] (Swigert) under: yes it is
[22:43] (TheTailor) tnzr, they would all be dead with less than 500
[22:43] (tnzr) no need to be insulting.
[22:44] (US_Male) they conserve ammunition when they don't have excess
[22:44] (tnzr) TheTailor: ok so what about firefights that last hours? All day?
[22:44] (US_Male) you chucklehead
[22:44] (US_Male) who do you think wants to carry all that ?
[22:44] (TheTailor) Half the men in the squad wouldn;t use any rounds, as they would be outside in case the bad guys escaped our guys going in.
[22:44] (US_Male) be realiistic, this has to be transported
[22:45] (TheTailor) tnzr, those aren't firefights, those are assaults,a nd we call in arty and air.
[22:45] (tnzr) I love how you dream up some combat scenario in your mind and that is the foundation for your whole case, yet you wont read all the army.mil, military.com, defense industry sites that have articles out the asshole regarding US upping its ammo production.
[22:45] (TheTailor) We would be hammering them with 50 cal
[22:45] (US_Male) hahaha
[22:45] (tnzr) ok so Im making it all up
[22:45] (tnzr) im a fucking moron
[22:45] (tnzr) you win
[22:45] (US_Male) tnzr: correct
[22:45] (Swigert) I'd make a terrible soldier
[22:45] (TheTailor) Yes, you are.
[22:45] (tnzr) Thanks.
[22:45] (tnzr) i'd insult you but I know youll just flash your badge.
[22:46] (US_Male) e-bullets don't weigh anything
[22:46] (TheTailor) tnzr, ever hear of an M-203?
[22:46] (TheTailor) Or a hand grenade?
[22:46] (tnzr) yep
[22:46] (Swigert) us-male: hahaha true
[22:46] (tnzr) US-Male; you have no idea what you are talking about
[22:46] (TheTailor) tnzr, the idea that it would take 100,000 rounds per man is stupid, or 10,000...
[22:46] (tnzr) US-Male: not a single fucking clue in this conversation
[22:46] (Swigert) can the game prepare you for a 20 mile route march with full pack, rifle, and ammo?
[22:47] (tnzr) TheTailor: its an average. It doesnt mean that some suqad sees an insurgent and then sits there reloading for fucking 2 weeks so they can shoot off 100,000 rounds before they ever kill him.
[22:47] (TheTailor) tnzr, let me put it to you this way, you simply don't know what you are talking about.
[22:47] (Swigert) tailor: sounds like Vietnam era propaganda rehashed - someone calculated the amount of ammo used in the war (all purposes) against enemy casualties
[22:47] (tnzr) it comes from bullets expended vs. insurgents killed, over a period of time.
[22:47] (tnzr) use your brain.
[22:47] (US_Male) tnzr: you're a fat-ass retard who thinks "America's Army" is the same as real war
[22:47] (tnzr) yeah Im fat, and autistic.
[22:47] (tnzr) US-Male; I dont think that at all.
[22:47] (US_Male) so, log out and go pop your zits
[22:47] (tnzr) I never said that, you inferred that.
[22:48] (US_Male) tnzr) 12:41AM (US_Male) (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army .....................
[22:48] (TheTailor) tnzr, I;m going to remind you that you don't know shit about it, and I also don't have to take your shit, get it?
[22:48] (tnzr) and now you are doing what you do best.. assuming that im a fat, zitty nerd.
[22:48] (US_Male) you said it, bitch
[22:48] (US_Male) tnzr: you are
[22:48] (tnzr) TheTailor: yes, I see your badge.
[22:48] (tnzr) I cite a perfectly reasonable source and you refuse to read it
[22:48] (US_Male) tnzr: lick the badge, bitch
[22:48] (Swigert) I noticed that when I spray my bullets in BF2, I lose
[22:48] (TheTailor) tnzr, you are a video gamer, not a soldier.
[22:48] (tnzr) US-Male: you need to get laid, youre too fucking high strung
[22:48] (US_Male) tnzr) 12:41AM (US_Male) (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army .....................
[22:48] (TheTailor) tnzr, and in fact, you woldn't make a pimple on a soldiers ass.
[22:48] (tnzr) TheTailor: youre right. Changes nothing.
[22:48] (US_Male) nzr) I never said that, you inferred that.
[22:48] (US_Male) LOL
[22:48] (tnzr) TheTailor: anything else you want to say to me? I'm flattered.
[22:49] (tnzr) I appreciate your rational conversation.
[22:49] (US_Male) tnzr: you cannot deny you are eating HoHo's right now
[22:49] (TheTailor) tnzr, no, those are the facts.
[22:49] (tnzr) US-Male: what are those?
[22:49] (tnzr) TheTailor: no they arent. You dont know me.
[22:49] (US_Male) tnzr: you call them "dildos"
[22:49] (tnzr) US-Male: oh, those.. yes im eating a dildo right now.
[22:49] (TheTailor) tnzr, well I know your military experiance, none.
[22:49] (US_Male) so, log out and go pop your zits
[22:49] (tnzr) i put it in a hotdog bun
[22:49] (tnzr) TheTailor: you dont need military experience to read & do some simple math.
[22:49] (US_Male) damn this kid is dense
[22:50] (underling) zomg i have not seen a fight like this in IRC
[22:50] (tnzr) haha why cause I wont roll over and let you fucking shut me up because you are too lazy to read?
[22:50] (TheTailor) tnzr, it's clear you can't do simple math, and yes, you do need military experiance.
[22:50] (US_Male) tnzr: you're a fat-ass retard who thinks "America's Army" is the same as real war
[22:50] (tnzr) US-Male: you havent said one single constructive thing in this whole conversation
[22:50] (tnzr) all youve done is insult me
[22:50] (US_Male) tnzr: you fail.
[22:50] (tnzr) US-Male: again, no I dont.
[22:50] (tnzr) I dont think its the same.
[22:50] (TheTailor) America's army, jesus.
[22:50] (US_Male) tnzr: and you desrved it
[22:50] (TheTailor) hahaha
[22:50] (tnzr) deserved what?
[22:50] (tnzr) your insults?
[22:50] (US_Male) he thinks a VIDEO game represents how ammunition is used in war !
[22:50] (tnzr) because I repeated what the army said?
[22:50] (US_Male) %^#@(
[22:50] (tnzr) US-Male: I nefver said that either
[22:51] (US_Male) =)
[22:51] (US_Male) tnzr: yes, you did you tard
[22:51] (Swigert) no recreation can be like the real thing - not even close
[22:51] (US_Male) explicitly
[22:51] (tnzr) its a good indicator of how firefights work though
[22:51] (US_Male) LOL !
[22:51] (tnzr) thats what I meant.
[22:51] (underling) US_Male i think tnzr denied that fact enough to be credible
[22:51] (US_Male) tnzr: this was a duscussion of how AMMUNITION is used
[22:51] (TheTailor) He can pull a trigger on his game controller and watch bullets fly on the screen and he thinks that's how real weapons work :-)
[22:51] (tnzr) its a good indicator that when you pull the trigger, lots of times your bullets dont hit a target
[22:51] (tnzr) and other times, you dont even TRY to hit a target, you suppress & flank
[22:51] (tnzr) what about all those bullets?
[22:51] (Swigert) tnzr: common sense can do the samer thing
[22:51] (TheTailor) tnzr, NO, REAL soldier hit what they shoot at.
[22:52] (tnzr) oh god
[22:52] (tnzr) Swigert: what do you mean?
[22:52] (US_Male) tnzr: you used "Americans Army" explicitly to defend your horseshit claims about how much ammunition is used
[22:52] (US_Male) you are -- a tard
[22:52] (Swigert) tnzr: don't need a game to tell you that - try it with a real rifle
[22:52] (tnzr) US-Male; I didnt use it to cite my fucking expertise in the field of military combat experience
[22:52] (TheTailor) tnzr, guess what, m-16 has a 3 round burst.
[22:52] (US_Male) tnzr: shut the fuck up and THINK
[22:52] (US_Male) stop, think
[22:52] (tnzr) im simply making the point that lots of rounds dont hit targets ... more rounds than not.. and to say thats not the case is simply a fucking lie to try to prove me wrong.
[22:52] (tnzr) US-Male: I'm thinking
[22:53] (tnzr) TheTailor: I'm aware of that
[22:53] (US_Male) tnzr: stop trying to defend that dumb shit you said !
[22:53] (US_Male) admit you were wrong, and move on
[22:53] (tnzr) did you think I meant that you hold it at your hip and spray rounds at the enemy, rambo style?
[22:53] (US_Male) you cannot defend something THAT retarded
[22:53] (tnzr) US-Male: i wasnt wrong. If you'd read the url I pasted, youd find that you were wrong
[22:53] (tnzr) but you wont.
[22:53] (underling) tnzr cited a source that was not himself that for every insurgent america kills, 100k bullets are used. i dont know how this evolved to a video game discussion.
[22:53] (tnzr) so you wont beleive that you are wrong in this situation.
[22:54] (US_Male) [22:36] (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army to know that lots of rounds get used as suppressing fire, misses all the time, etc
[22:54] (TheTailor) tnzr, even if 80% miss, you will NEVER use 10,000 per man killed, never ever, and that stupid shit about 100,000 is simply abject stupidity.
[22:54] (US_Male) case CLOSED tnzr is a complete tard
[22:54] (tnzr) US-Male: whats wrong with that?
[22:54] (pilgrim`) I had a case of 1972 LC ammo I got surplus. I shot it up then reloaded the brass. Man that stuff was not up to snuff
[22:54] (US_Male) tnzr: video games do not represent real war
[22:54] (US_Male) tnzr: here let me make it simple for you. "U R DUM"
[22:55] (TheTailor) tnzr, do you know what a tracer is?
[22:55] (underling) US_Male that quote seems OK, it was a simulation of bullet acurracy.
[22:55] (tnzr) yes I do.
[22:55] (tnzr) US-Male: of course they dont.
[22:55] (tnzr) I realize that moron.
[22:55] (TheTailor) tnzr, then you know that they direct fire, right?
[22:55] (US_Male) underlingL no, it was a calim about how many rounds are fired
[22:55] (US_Male) underling: try reading
[22:55] (Swigert) what I learned about war from video games = I would die within seconds
[22:55] (TheTailor) tnzr, and you know what volley fire is?
[22:55] (underling) i read it all
[22:55] (pilgrim`) early 5.56 NATO used a ball type powder called BL(C)2 which frankly sucked
[22:55] (Swigert) I would never see the man who killed me
[22:55] (tnzr) TheTailor: of course, and yes
[22:55] (US_Male) underling: read it again
[22:55] (TheTailor) tnzr, you know what volley fire is?
[22:55] (_HellMngr) vietnam was bad
[22:55] (pilgrim`) the problem was the ash contnet
[22:55] (_HellMngr) but iraq their ratios are much better
[22:56] (tnzr) TheTailor: I believe so but why dont you tell me so that I'm sure.
[22:56] (pilgrim`) it made too much soot in a gun that was designed to never be cleaned
[22:56] (TheTailor) tnzr, what do you think it is, lets see if you know.
[22:56] (pilgrim`) the M16 bore brush was really late to the party
[22:56] (TheTailor) haha, he's googling
[22:56] (US_Male) tnzr: your claim was about a video game, and you say that it represents how many rounds are fired in a real war
[22:57] (US_Male) lol
[22:57] (tnzr) Im thinking of how to word it dude
[22:57] (tnzr) Jesus christ, having a debate with you guys is like fucking highschool
[22:57] (US_Male) [22:36] (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army to know that lots of rounds get used as suppressing fire, misses all the time, etc
[22:57] (TheTailor) tnzr, well it's pretty simple, you don't know.
[22:57] (tnzr) US-Male: that was not my claim
[22:57] (US_Male) tnzr: just admit you were wrong & stupid, and move on
[22:57] (tnzr) My claim was that 100,000 rounds are expended per insurgent killed
[22:57] (TheTailor) tnzr can;t shoot :-)
[22:57] (underling) its a simulation though.
[22:57] (US_Male) tnzr: you deny saying your exact quote?
[22:57] (TheTailor) tnzr,and that pure horseshit
[22:57] (tnzr) TheTailor: what is it
[22:57] (tnzr) volley fire
[22:57] (US_Male) this was your claim ---))) [22:36] (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army to know that lots of rounds get used as suppressing fire, misses all the time, etc
[22:58] (tnzr) Ill admit I dont know.
[22:58] (tnzr) but I think I have an idea
[22:58] (underling) there is no way to know how many rounds are fired for each insurgent. can this be dropped?
[22:58] (tnzr) US-Male: that merely supports my claim
[22:58] (US_Male) tnzr: well no, it FAILS to support anything
[22:58] (tnzr) I know what I wrote, and you have pasted that at least 7 times. get the fuck over it
[22:58] (US_Male) tnzr: that's why you're so laughable
[22:58] (tnzr) US-Male: not to you, because you have no idea waht you are talking about
[22:58] (Swigert) suppressing fire is SUPPOSED to miss - it's intended to keep the enemy from firing on you
[22:58] (pilgrim`) there are quartermaster ratios, and ammo to ops issuance specs, but that is not how it works.
[22:58] (tnzr) US-Male: to you. poo poo pee pee caca doodoo is laughable.. why the fuck should I care.
[22:58] (US_Male) tnzr: I'll paste it a hundred more times until you shut the fuck up
[22:58] (US_Male) this was your claim ---))) [22:36] (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army to know that lots of rounds get used as suppressing fire, misses all the time, etc
[22:59] (TheTailor) tnzr, you have to face facts, you simply don't have the experiance to know about these things.
[22:59] (tnzr) US-Male: now you just want to silence me becaus eyoua re too lazy to read
[22:59] (tnzr) TheTailor: i trust the army more than I trust you on this matter, sorry.
[22:59] (US_Male) tnzr: aww, now don't shit in the channel, or I'll rub your nose in it
[22:59] (US_Male) [22:36] (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army to know that lots of rounds get used as suppressing fire, misses all the time, etc
[22:59] (US_Male) then you deny it
[22:59] (tnzr) who is shitting? other than the stuff coming out of your gaping maw, I see nor smell any shit.
[22:59] (TheTailor) tnzr, the army never claimed it takes 100,000 rounds per enemy soldier.
[23:00] (TheTailor) tnzr, give me a quote.
[23:00] (tnzr) TheTailor: well it definitely claimed it had an ammo shortage, which you said was absurd
[23:00] (tnzr) I can /lastlog to quote you if you like.
[23:00] (TheTailor) That's utterly assinine.
[23:00] (US_Male) tnzr: your typing is worth one steaming turd
[23:00] (tnzr) asinine, and no its not
[23:00] (US_Male) haha look at the idiot ---) [22:36] (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army to know that lots of rounds get used as suppressing fire, misses all the time, etc
[23:00] (tnzr) US-Male; say something constructive otherwise rest assured your point is taken (10x over) and shut the fuck up already
[23:00] (TheTailor) tnzr, no, I didn't say they couldn't have a shortage, I said they will NEVER run out, ever.
[23:00] (US_Male) tnzr: up your ass, bitch
[23:00] (tnzr) I get it, you think im a dumbass
[23:01] (tnzr) TheTailor: I never said they were going to run out
[23:01] (US_Male) aww look at the idiot ---) [22:36] (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army to know that lots of rounds get used as suppressing fire, misses all the time, etc
[23:01] (tnzr) I said they had some sort of ammo shortage and had to up ammo production
[23:01] (TheTailor) tnzr, I said they only have 7 billion on hand..
[23:01] (US_Male) tnzr: and you will stop being a stupid bitch.
[23:01] (underling) US_Male: are you high? i think this should be dropped by now.
[23:01] (tnzr) which is outlined clearly in this army.mil PDF that you refuse to read because you think the army is saying it jsut to get more money.
[23:01] (tnzr) when in reality they are gettinG MORE AMMO
[23:01] (TheTailor) out of 10 billion, that's a shortage.
[23:01] (tnzr) TheTailor: ok so the ARMY are liars.
[23:01] (US_Male) underling: are you drunk ?
[23:01] (tnzr) you are the end-all authority on what goes on in the army.
[23:01] (Swigert) tailor: I think the figure 100,000 rounds per enemy is more Michale Moore Math = take the total number of rounds the military buys per year and divide it by the number of terorirsts killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, and voila = it does not take into account training, storage, etc
[23:01] (TheTailor) tnzr, give us a quote from your .pdf
[23:02] (underling) US_Male no but i have a sticky keyboard from apple juice
[23:02] (TheTailor) tnzr, you made the claim, it's on you to back it.
[23:02] (tnzr) ok well give me a second.
[23:02] (US_Male) underling: that's nice
[23:02] (US_Male) lol
[23:02] (TheTailor) tnzr, and the URL
[23:02] (redfish) usmale is a cad
[23:03] (US_Male) computer-aided design?
[23:03] (tnzr) ok for openers, here is the title of the pdf:
[23:03] (tnzr) AMMUNITION SHORTAGES EXPERIENCED IN OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM – CAUSES AND SOLUTIONS
[23:03] (TheTailor) ok, what type of ammo?
[23:03] (US_Male) let's see some cool video game stats
[23:03] (Swigert) no US-Male is just having a good time
[23:03] (tnzr) allow me to read the whole pdf since you refuse.
[23:03] (TheTailor) 105mm rounds?
[23:03] (TheTailor) Grenades?
[23:03] (tnzr) and I will produce what type of ammo
[23:03] (US_Male) har..
[23:03] (TheTailor) Oh? You haven't even read it?
[23:04] (US_Male) ok back to the movie
[23:04] (US_Male) he concedes
[23:04] (tnzr) a line taken at random: In one article it was noted that the Army estimated
[23:04] (tnzr) it would need 1.5 billion small arms rounds per year, which was three times the amount
[23:04] (tnzr) 2
[23:04] (tnzr) produced just three years earlier.
[23:04] (tnzr) ignore that 2.
[23:04] (tnzr) that would indicate to me that its small arms
[23:04] (tnzr) TheTailor: dont worry, ill keep reading and find even more specific information for you.
[23:05] (tnzr) no seriously.. I dont mind.
[23:05] (TheTailor) Who's quote is that?
[23:06] * tnzr dramatic sigh
[23:06] (tnzr) again
[23:06] (tnzr) its from the pdf found at: www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/
[23:06] (tnzr) i hope that is an adequate source, being the army and all.
[23:06] (TheTailor) Ohh, so this is theory
[23:06] (tnzr) heeeere we go
[23:06] (TheTailor) Not actual use.
[23:06] (TheTailor) What's the URL?
[23:07] (thebarry) holy crap
[23:07] (thebarry) http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,262543,00.html
[23:07] (thebarry) i saw that
[23:07] (thebarry) the aftermath anyways
[23:07] (thebarry) that is like a football field from where i work
[23:08] (TheTailor) Page Cannot Be Found
[23:08] (underling) i saw it on FOX yesterday
[23:08] (TheTailor) wtf
[23:08] (underling) live
[23:08] (tnzr) one of the sources that report cites: Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, “Shortage of Ammunition,” memorandum for Les
[23:08] (tnzr) Brownlee, Gen. Pete Schoomaker, Washington, D.C., 31 March 2004.
[23:08] (TheTailor) I saw that on the news
[23:09] (TheTailor) tnzr, What's the URL?
[23:09] (tnzr) so I guess ill conclude this by saying that whether or not YOU believe there is/was/could be and ammo shortage, I DO believe it because on information given by the US Army, including The Don himself.
[23:09] (tnzr) ill paste it again: http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/ksil75.pdf
[23:09] (TheTailor) tnzr, you ahven't given a quote yet.
[23:09] (TheTailor) What's the URL?
[23:09] (tnzr) sorry you missed it the first time, thoughI understand it wasnt easy to see being submerged in fucking insults from highschoolers
[23:09] (tnzr) ^^^^^
[23:12] (tnzr) that was the 3rd result from googling "ammo shortage US army"
[23:13] (tnzr) im sure a more sophisticated googler would be able to find much more info regarding the ammo shortage.
[23:14] (TheTailor) tnzr, ok, first, this is from the war college, they are known to overinflate everyting to get funds from congress, always have, understand that part...
[23:14] (US_Male) hahaha
[23:14] (US_Male) he doesn't have shit
[23:14] (US_Male) so now he's blustering
[23:14] (tnzr) oh god
[23:14] (TheTailor) Now let me do a couple searches
[23:14] (tnzr) look
[23:14] (TheTailor) wait
[23:14] (tnzr) the point is, neither one of you can produce anything source, opinion, url, or otherwise to prove that that is NOT THe case.. yet here I have a multitude of info at my fingertips that suggests that it is, including from Rummy AND the US Army. Hmm.. who to believe...
[23:15] (TheTailor) tnzr, searching for '100,000', the claim you made in number of bullets used per enemy killed.
[23:15] (US_Male) hee hee
[23:15] (TheTailor) None found.
[23:15] (tnzr) do I know where they got the figure 100,000 rounds per kill? Fuck no, but does it seem realistic to me? FUck yes. Have you given me any info at all other than an "optimum imaginary scenario" to convince me otherwise? No.
[23:16] (TheTailor) That's in your cited .pdf
[23:16] (tnzr) and finally, do I ultimately care if you believe me or not? No.
[23:16] (US_Male) "America's Army" validates it !
[23:16] (tnzr) TheTailor: that doesnt mean I didnt hear that figure from a news story
[23:16] (TheTailor) tnzr, the number isn't even in there
[23:16] (tnzr) and I believe actually that it was 150,000 per kill
[23:16] (TheTailor) That's stupid
[23:16] (tnzr) ok.
[23:16] (TheTailor) Assinine.
[23:16] (tnzr) asinine, ok
[23:17] (tnzr) point taken.
[23:17] (FreeTrad3) Bigoted behavior from this ip/domain
[23:17] (TheTailor) tnzr, ya know what you should do? Talk to some soldiers that have been there.
[23:17] (underling) ok im going, i be back tomorrow
[23:17] (tnzr) TheTailor: ok
[23:17] (tnzr) if I remember this argument next time Im in the company of a soldier or soldiers, I will ask
[23:18] (TheTailor) tnzr, do you even know how long it wouldtake to fire 150,000 rounds?
[23:18] (TheTailor) Let alone carry them?
[23:18] (TheTailor) How many truckloads of ammo that is?
[23:18] (TheTailor) Good grief, employ some common sense here.
[23:18] (US_Male) for each guy =)
[23:18] (US_Male) heh
[23:19] (tnzr) TheTailor: well if there were 100,000 plus soldiers, and each of them fired 1 round, not vfvery long. If half of them each fired 2 rounds, not very long. If 1/3rd each fired 1 "3 round burst" form an M16, not very long.
[23:19] (tnzr) TheTailor: I am.
[23:19] (TheTailor) haha, let's load 50,000 clips
[23:19] (TheTailor) To kill ONE guy
[23:19] (US_Male) hahahaha
[23:19] (tnzr) hey
[23:19] (tnzr) guys
[23:19] (tnzr) sorry to shit all over your parade but:
[23:19] (tnzr) http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article314944.ece
[23:19] (TheTailor) tnzr, there are about 10 guys in a squad.
[23:20] (tnzr) title: *
[23:20] (tnzr) o
[23:20] (tnzr) +
[23:20] (tnzr) #
[23:20] (tnzr) US forced to import bullets from Israel as troops use 250,000 for every rebel killed
[23:20] (TheTailor) O the UK tabloids are in now
[23:20] (US_Male) and or every army cook who never fires, someone else now has to fire 200K rounds to make that average =)
[23:20] (tnzr) sorry for those 3 extra lines.
[23:20] (US_Male) *for
[23:20] (tnzr) ok so I didnt hear it, I was "lying" as US-Male put it.
[23:20] (thebarry) yah that's probably not too far off
[23:20] (thebarry) they spend a lot of time training
[23:20] (tnzr) according to this article it was teh GAO
[23:20] (US_Male) tnzr: well you just lied now, cunt
[23:20] (tnzr) that reported it.
[23:20] (thebarry) and there is a LOT of cover fire
[23:20] (tnzr) US_Male: oh how was that? cunt.
[23:20] (TheTailor) tnzr, umm, reprters don't know shit except how to hype thigs so people will read the paper, they don't care about anything but that.
[23:21] (tnzr) TheTailor, US-Male: you are wrong.
[23:21] (tnzr) Apology accepted.
[23:21] (US_Male) tnzr: because I had never said you were "lying" until just now when you told that lie
[23:21] (US_Male) tnzr: so now, you ARE lying!
[23:21] (thebarry) probably 249,500 were fired in training
[23:21] (thebarry) 499 for covering fire
[23:21] (US_Male) tnzr; quite be saying you were "lying" before your fake claim that I had
[23:21] (thebarry) :p
[23:21] (US_Male) *quote me
[23:21] (US_Male) lol
[23:21] (Thrawn) fark, i gotta stop spending money online tonite :P
[23:22] (tnzr) TheTailor: feel better?
[23:22] (FreeTrad3) The US hasnt had a ammo shortage since 2005 although we never have much surplus. We increased production and procurement in 2006 and 2007 by many millions of dollars of new investments in plants and contracts.
[23:22] (Thrawn) so did anyone read the 300 review in the New Yorker
[23:22] (tnzr) That kick changes nothing.
[23:22] (Thrawn) it got all political
[23:22] (tnzr) just proves to me what kind of guy you are.
[23:22] (FreeTrad3) Bigoted behavior from this ip/domain
[23:22] (FreeTrad3) Every source around on ammo shortage dates back to 2005 or earlier
[23:22] (US_Male) tnzr; quote me saying you were "lying" before your fake claim that I had said so ... Now you DID lie, you ignorant bitch
[23:22] (TheTailor) tnzr, I didn't apologize as you said.
[23:22] (thebarry) bigoted lol
[23:22] (tnzr) TheTailor: you cant take a joke either, apparently.
[23:23] (FreeTrad3) I dont know the point of the argument anyway but its not valid.
[23:23] (thebarry) that is so 50s
[23:23] (tnzr) face it, you were mad because everything I said I backed up and you didnt fucking like it
[23:23] (TheTailor) FreeTrad3, you don't want to know, haha, trust me :-)
[23:23] (FreeTrad3) tnzr, I read sme scroll you claim there is an ammo shortage, there was... in 2005
[23:23] (US_Male) huge FUCKING lie ! ----))) [23:20] (tnzr) ok so I didnt hear it, I was "lying" as US-Male put it.
[23:23] (FreeTrad3) There isnt now.
[23:23] (TheTailor) tnzr, I looked at your URL and your clain was false and not backed by your cite,
[23:23] (tnzr) FreeTrad3: I claimed I HEARD there was an ammo shortage, and I had to sit ther eon google for 20 minutes to prove it, which I did, then I got kicked.
[23:24] (US_Male) tnzr got embarrased, made up some shit and lashed out
[23:24] (thebarry) all i care about
[23:24] (tnzr) I also claimed I heard/read that 100,000 rounds or 150,000 rounds were expended per dead insurgent. I backed that up too (that I heard it)
[23:24] (FreeTrad3) No you didnt prove it I checked all your sources and it was 2005 or earlier
[23:24] (US_Male) lol
[23:24] (thebarry) is when are the limeys going to blow up some persians?
[23:24] (tnzr) oh god
[23:24] (tnzr) FreeTrad3: I proved what I claiemd.
[23:24] (TheTailor) [01:19] (tnzr) US forced to import bullets from Israel as troops use 250,000 for every rebel killed
[23:24] (thebarry) that's all i care about
[23:24] (tnzr) go over what I said.
[23:24] (TheTailor) lol
[23:24] (Thrawn) oy vey
[23:24] (tnzr) and what I pasted.
[23:24] (US_Male) [22:36] (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army to know that lots of rounds get used as suppressing fire, misses all the time, etc
[23:24] (US_Male) har
[23:24] (TheTailor) a quarter million rounds spent per man killed :-)
[23:24] (FreeTrad3) there is an article dated 2007 on all of our new sources of ammo production and supplies and procurements.
[23:25] (FreeTrad3) there is a story about shortages in taiwan or something.
[23:25] (US_Male) he claims played enough video games to know how much ammunition is used in REAL war!
[23:25] (FreeTrad3) We have increased domestic production
[23:25] (tnzr) who gives a shit. I mention I heard something( then I get run over the coals for "making shit up" and when I cite several sources, you guys flip out and kick me just to flex some muscle, wtf is that about
[23:25] (tnzr) sources including the US Army
[23:25] (TheTailor) FT.... 250,000 rounds per man killed, does that sound realistic to you?
[23:25] (tnzr) which apparently dont know as much about how much ammo they use as TheTailor
[23:25] (US_Male) tnzr: you're a tard who gets raped because you should have just admitted you're a tard to begin with
[23:26] (TheTailor) tnzr, correct, you don't.
[23:26] (tnzr) raped?
[23:26] (US_Male) yep.
[23:26] (tnzr) US-Male: you are out of your mind.
[23:26] (US_Male) [22:36] (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army to know that lots of rounds get used as suppressing fire, misses all the time, etc
[23:26] (US_Male) tnzr: you're dumb =)
[23:26] (tnzr) you are so dead set on being right that you dont listen, nor do you read
[23:26] (FreeTrad3) TT Only if you include all pratice rounds, and live ammo training and shooting training and so on..
[23:26] (TheTailor) tnzr can't even hit the target in a video game :-)
[23:26] (US_Male) tnzr: just accept that you fucked up
[23:26] (US_Male) tnzr; be a man
[23:26] (tnzr) TheTailor: I'd headshot you over and over if you ever stepped onto the virtual battlefield wtih me. :)
[23:26] (US_Male) face reality, you bullshitted and got caught
[23:26] (TheTailor) FT, even then, it's insane
[23:27] (FreeTrad3) We have weapons which fire 100s of rounds a second.. even 1000s....
[23:27] (tnzr) US-Male: I didnt fuck up. I didnt bullshit. You know that. If you dont, you are seriously fucked in the head.
[23:27] (FreeTrad3) In training we obviously must use a lot of ammo.
[23:27] (thebarry) o btw
[23:27] (thebarry) i have xm radio
[23:27] (tnzr) FreeTrad3: thank you. THANK YOU.
[23:27] (thebarry) and i surf over to bbc world occasionally
[23:27] (tnzr) finally someone who can think outside the "prove tnzr wrong" box
[23:27] (US_Male) tnzr: you're a complete idiot who used a video game to calim you know how many rounds are fired in a WAR..
[23:27] (thebarry) i haven't heard them say ANYTHING about the 15 soldiers
[23:27] (TheTailor) FT, sure, but those aren't carried around in house to house combat.
[23:27] (FreeTrad3) but we dont waste that much in combat, We lay down suppression fire to move men into position but the purpose of doing that is to waste ammo to keep the enemy behind cover.
[23:27] (thebarry) not one word
[23:27] (US_Male) you know you are full of shit, and you are too stuborn to say it
[23:27] (FreeTrad3) as you men move into position.
[23:27] (thebarry) it's all over fox news tho
[23:27] (thebarry) wtf
[23:28] (tnzr) US-Male: I used a video game (A US Army combat simulator) to SUPPORT my belief that the claim that I HEARD (and mentioned that I heard) sounded believable.
[23:28] (TheTailor) FT, you might find a minigun on an APC here and there
[23:28] (US_Male) tnzr: and it's no "support" at ALL which is why you are a goddamn idiot
[23:28] (TheTailor) FT, but remember, thos bursts only last about 1 second
[23:28] (tnzr) US-Male: again, you have said nothing to convince me otherwise. All you do is "Ad-hom" as you fuckers like to put it. Insult me, because you have no real argument to stand on.
[23:28] (FreeTrad3) And we have hard targets well fortified which may requires 10,000 rounds to completely destroy if a rocket isnt nearby
[23:28] (FreeTrad3) or a missile.
[23:28] (tnzr) US-Male: yes it is, which is why YOU are the "goddamn idiot"
[23:28] (US_Male) tnzr: you cannot use a video game to "support" a real war, and if you think you CAN, you;re a goddamn idiot
[23:28] (tnzr) grow the fuck up
[23:28] (tnzr) haha support a real war
[23:28] (US_Male) tnzr: and it's no "support" at ALL which is why you are a goddamn idiot
[23:29] (TheTailor) FT, they call in air for those
[23:29] (tnzr) so thats what I was trying to do? twist myt words around more, please
[23:29] (FreeTrad3) A typical military rifle has single shot 3 round bursts and full auto.
[23:29] (US_Male) tnzr: you're stupid. Admit it.
[23:29] (tnzr) US-Male: no u
[23:29] (TheTailor) FT, or arty, or tanks
[23:29] (US_Male) [22:36] (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army to know that lots of rounds get used as suppressing fire, misses all the time, etc
[23:29] (US_Male) busted, tardie !
[23:29] (tnzr) busted being right
[23:29] * tnzr guilty as charged
[23:29] (US_Male) hahahaha
[23:29] (US_Male) yeah, video games tell you when you are right. HAHAHA
[23:29] (US_Male) tnzr: you cannot use a video game to "support" something that happens in a real war, and if you think you CAN, you;re a goddamn idiot
[23:30] (US_Male) but -- we know you are already
[23:30] (FreeTrad3) Tt, Yeah but the AC 130 fires 50 cal or something at a rate of something like they can put a bullet in every square foot of a football field in less than a minute.
[23:30] (tnzr) US-Male: ok so you cant use a flight sim to support an opinion about flying a plane?
[23:30] (tnzr) US-Male: I didnt say I can be deposited into afghanistan and waste a shitload of taliban
[23:30] (US_Male) tnzr: hahha, that;'s not what you did bitch!
[23:30] (US_Male) hee hee !
[23:30] (tnzr) I said that its a good indicator of how bullets are fucking spammed in a firefight
[23:30] (FreeTrad3) And you get 2-4 guns on one ship.. Close air support, or helicoptes with gatlin guns..
[23:30] (FreeTrad3) they can lay waste to a lot of shit
[23:30] (TheTailor) FT, that's a Vulcan, it's 4000 rounds per minute, but it fires in bursts for a second or two
[23:30] (US_Male) tnzrL and you are WRONG. Now stfu.
[23:30] (pilgrim`) they use an adappted Vulcan with a theoreticall top end of 5k rnds/min
[23:30] (FreeTrad3) But they use it for much more than targeting men..
[23:30] (tnzr) www.liveleak.com.. go there and watch some combat footage from iraq and tell me how many guys you see die vs. how many bullets you see hit walls/dirt/what have you
[23:31] (US_Male) HAHA
[23:31] (TheTailor) FT, and the Army doesn't use those
[23:31] (FreeTrad3) If you want to talk soilder on soilder they dont use near as much ammo..
[23:31] (pilgrim`) in 50bmg
[23:31] (tnzr) US-Male; sorry, no im not. but i will stfu. you are officially boring.
[23:31] (TheTailor) FT, in a city like Ramadi, if there are a mess of bad guys in a building, they call in air, and bomb it.
[23:31] (US_Male) tnzr: just because you think people fire e-bullets the same way as real ones, does NOT mean you are smart enough to be walking around loose
[23:31] (pilgrim`) now the older design used a Ma Duce setup
[23:31] (TheTailor) Ft, or they hit it with a tank round
[23:32] (FreeTrad3) TT they do actually for close air support. blackhawks and ac 13o and marine modified harrier jets.
[23:32] (pilgrim`) I know the current targeting is awsome
[23:32] (TheTailor) FT, sure, but they don't fire a quarter million rounds per man killed, that's simply insane.
[23:32] (tnzr) US-Male: you are just trying to play the "video game != real life" card on me as some trump card to discredit everything else I've said/pasted/cited, even though they all come from waaaay more trustable, valid sources (including your god, Donald Rumsfeld) than you fucking IRC trolls. Face it. You are wrong. Now YOU stfu.
[23:32] (US_Male) anyone who thinks a kid playing a game fires rounds the same way as in a real war, is just goddamn retarded.
[23:32] (pilgrim`) and we thought we had hi tech in teh 60s-70s...
[23:32] (US_Male) like tnzr.
[23:33] (US_Male) tnzr: you;re stupid. You rested your claims about firing bullets on a video game
[23:33] (tnzr) no I didnt.
[23:33] (US_Male) yes, you did. And you;re stupid.
[23:33] (TheTailor) FT, as I was telling tnzr, can you imagine how many TRUCKLOADS of ammo that would be?
[23:33] (US_Male) [22:36] (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army to know that lots of rounds get used as suppressing fire, misses all the time, etc
[23:33] (US_Male) exhibit A
[23:33] (TheTailor) Per man?
[23:33] (TheTailor) haha
[23:33] (tnzr) I supported my claim about the amount of ammo that gets wasted by citing a combat sim made by the US Army , also the most realistic combat FPS in existence. Now get a fucking life.
[23:33] (tnzr) ok not "wasted".. ammo that doesnt hit human beings.
[23:34] (US_Male) tnzr: we can all see that you DID rest your claims on a video game
[23:34] (US_Male) we have your quote
[23:34] (tnzr) no
[23:34] (US_Male) yes.
[23:34] (TheTailor) tnzr, nobody wastes ammo
[23:34] (US_Male) yes, you did. And you;re stupid.
[23:34] (tnzr) I rested my claims on a PDF issued by the US FUCKING ARMY
[23:34] (US_Male) [22:36] (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army to know that lots of rounds get used as suppressing fire, misses all the time, etc
[23:34] (US_Male) exhibit A
[23:34] (TheTailor) tnzr, and unlike you, we hit what we shoot at.
[23:34] (tnzr) TheTailor: yeah, walls.
[23:34] (tnzr) TheTailor: 01:35AM (tnzr) ok not "wasted".. ammo that doesnt hit human beings.
[23:34] (US_Male) tnzr: no, you talked about a video game.
[23:34] (TheTailor) tnzr, no, we shoot at the bad guys, you hit walls, if you can eve hit those.
[23:35] (tnzr) TheTailor: you dont know what I can do. You are just trying to offend me. Because you were wrong.
[23:35] (US_Male) tnzr: try to be a man. Or whatever you are.
[23:35] (pilgrim`) if you are interested in ammo per solider used, a very good anallysis was done back about 20 years ago By Ian...what is his last name? Holm I think...of James. it apaered in their 1985 Janes Infantry Weapons anual, but was actually a reprent from a extended article in Janes Defense Weekly.
[23:35] (TheTailor) tnzr, you are an armchair video game soldier, nothing more.
[23:35] (TheTailor) tnzr, by your own admission
[23:35] (pilgrim`) Janes that is
[23:35] (tnzr) TheTailor: I could tell you what you are but Ill get kicked again because you want to b e able to insult me wtihout being insulted back.
[23:36] (pilgrim`) www.janes.com if you want to order a copy
[23:36] (tnzr) TheTailor: what does that make you?
[23:36] (TheTailor) tnzr, as I said, by your own admission.
[23:36] (US_Male) tnzr: "I know you are but what am I !"
[23:36] (US_Male) jeesus
[23:36] (tnzr) TheTailor: paste where I said "I am an armchair video game soldier"
[23:36] (TheTailor) tnzr, did you even ever fire a weapon?
[23:36] (US_Male) hahahaa
[23:36] (tnzr) TheTailor: yes, I have. thank you.
[23:37] (TheTailor) US-Male, paste where he was taling about his experiance with that army game
[23:37] (US_Male) [22:36] (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army to know that lots of rounds get used as suppressing fire, misses all the time, etc
[23:37] (US_Male) this one ?
[23:37] (tnzr) US_Male: Why do you talk? Has it really been so long since you've been laid that the only feeling you get is when you are arguing with "fat zitty nerds" on irc?
[23:37] (TheTailor) tnzr, really? What caliber rounds?
[23:37] (US_Male) LOL
[23:37] (US_Male) tnzr: aww poor bitch! You get so MAD when you are wrong!
[23:37] (tnzr) TheTailor: 7.62mm, 9mm, .40cal, .357
[23:37] (tnzr) more
[23:37] (TheTailor) "America's Army" how exciting.
[23:37] (tnzr) trolls.
[23:37] (tnzr) I fucking backed up my claim.
[23:37] (tnzr) deal with it.
[23:37] (TheTailor) No, you didn't.
[23:37] (tnzr) yes, I did
[23:37] (pilgrim`) ah well.
[23:38] (tnzr) now if thats not enough for you, fine
[23:38] (tnzr) drop it
[23:38] (US_Male) tnzr: here's what you do. Grow a pair of BALLS, and admit you are a moron, and you bulshitted with a VIDEO game
[23:38] (TheTailor) Your.pdf didn't back your claim.
[23:38] (tnzr) otherwise, get over it, jesus
[23:38] (TheTailor) In fact, your claim wasn;t even in the cite you gave.
[23:38] (tnzr) TheTailor: my "claim" was that I heard/read somewhere that x bullets were used per dead insurgent. I backed up my "claim".\
[23:38] (panini) lol video game makes you an epert on military strategy??
[23:38] (FreeTrad3) Sorry lost my connection , AH cobra
[23:38] (tnzr) panini: no it doesnt. thats common sense.
[23:39] (US_Male) panini yeah he says he can tell kill ratios and many rounds are fired !
[23:39] (TheTailor) tnzr, well no, you gave a url to a .pdf from the war college, and it didn't even remotely back your claim.
[23:39] (US_Male) from a goddamn vodeo game, he says
[23:39] (FreeTrad3) One M197 three barrel 20 mm gun (mounted under the nose with 750 round ammo container)
[23:39] (FreeTrad3) Underwing attachments for four TOW missiles, eight Hellfire missiles, or one AIM-9L Sidewinder missile
[23:39] (FreeTrad3) Can also be equipped with Zuni rocket launchers
[23:39] (tnzr) TheTailor: well your counterclaim was far from backed. I provided 100% more evidence to back MY claim than you did to back yours. So now what?
[23:39] (tnzr) I should just take it on good faith that you know everything?
[23:39] (tnzr) No thanks.
[23:39] (FreeTrad3) 750 rounds per container.. and there are those are just close air support attack helicopters.
[23:39] (TheTailor) FT, that minigun is a badass
[23:40] (FreeTrad3) Ac130 is a beast
[23:40] (TheTailor) AC-130 has a cousin with a 105mm cannon
[23:40] (TheTailor) Imagine that, firing a howitzer from 10000 feet
[23:40] (FreeTrad3) with 3,000 rounds
[23:40] (FreeTrad3) one L60 40mm Bofors cannon
[23:40] (FreeTrad3) with 256 rounds
[23:40] (FreeTrad3) one M102 105mm howitzer
[23:40] (FreeTrad3) with 100 rounds One 25mm GAU-12 Gatling gun
[23:40] (FreeTrad3) (1,800 rounds per minute)
[23:40] (FreeTrad3) one L60 40mm Bofors cannon
[23:40] (FreeTrad3) (100 shots per minute)
[23:40] (FreeTrad3) one M102 105mm cannon
[23:41] (FreeTrad3) Bad ass mother fucker.
[23:41] (TheTailor) FT, I have a video of a Preditor at night firing on the bad guys, actually the Preditor finds them, and an AC-130 is overhead attacking
[23:42] (FreeTrad3) AC-130H Tail Numbers and Aircraft Names
[23:42] (FreeTrad3) 69-6567 (shot down in the Battle of Khafji 1991)
[23:42] (FreeTrad3) 69-6568 cherry
[23:42] (FreeTrad3) 69-6569 Fatal Attraction
[23:42] (FreeTrad3) 69-6570 The Hussy
[23:42] (FreeTrad3) 69-6571 (shot down in viet-nam 1972)
[23:42] (FreeTrad3) 69-6572 Grave Digger
[23:42] (FreeTrad3) 69-6573 Heavy Metal
[23:42] (FreeTrad3) 69-6574 Iron Maiden
[23:42] (FreeTrad3) 69-6575 Wicked Wanda
[23:42] (FreeTrad3) 69-6576 Hell Raiser (Down Somalia 1994)
[23:42] (FreeTrad3) 69-6577 Death Angel
[23:42] (TheTailor) At night, you can see the guys running and jumping into dithces, an hear the aircrew yelling..."BOOM".
[23:43] (TheTailor) They blew the living shit out of everyone
[23:43] (TheTailor) But they left the mosque :-)
[23:43] (TheTailor) If you were in there you made it.
[23:43] (TheTailor) The bad guys thought they could hide, BOOM, gone.
[23:45] (FreeTrad3) The AC-130U is the most complex aircraft weapon system in the world today. It has more than 609,000 lines of software code in its mission computers and avionics systems. The newest addition to the command fleet, this heavily armed aircraft incorporates side-firing weapons integrated with sophisticated sensor, navigation and fire control systems to provide surgical firepower or area saturation during extended loiter periods, at night and in adverse weather.
[23:46] (tnzr) TheTailor: so yes, I've fired a gun. Where were you going with that? Or did you jsut realize.. and change the subject?
[23:46] (tnzr) I notice US-Male has nothing more to say either.
[23:46] (FreeTrad3) It can wipe out an area or surgically pick out the enemy by I believe magnetic sensors our troops wear to identify them as friendlies to the computer system.
[23:47] (FreeTrad3) I believe I read something like that onece.
[23:47] (FreeTrad3) once
[23:47] (FreeTrad3) It is able to track 40mm and 105mm projectiles and return pinpoint impact locations to the crew for subsequent adjustment to the target. The fire control system offers a Dual Target Attack capability, whereby two targets up to one kilometer apart can be simultaneously engaged by two different sensors,
[23:47] (US_Male) tnzr: LOL
[23:47] (US_Male) [22:36] (tnzr) US-Male: ive played enough americas army to know that lots of rounds get used as suppressing fire, misses all the time, etc
[23:47] (US_Male) tnzr is so small-dicked!
[23:48] (FreeTrad3) Im in love with this airplane..
[23:48] (tnzr) Thats what I thought.
[23:48] (FreeTrad3) infrared it can see a jackrabbit hiding in the bush.
[23:48] (US_Male) he got busted bullshitting and now he cries like alittle bitch
[23:48] (TheTailor) tnzr, what I noticed from you telling me about your video game experiance,and your cite to backup your claim from the war college (that didn't even remotely back your claim) is that youa re full of shit and not worth talking to.
[23:48] (US_Male) har har har
[23:49] (US_Male) tnzr: you used a VIDEO game to claim how many rounds are fired in a real war, and kill ratios!
[23:49] (TheTailor) FT, that video I have is utterly amazing, at night, and you can clearly see every bad guy.
[23:49] (TheTailor) Well, untill he's targeted anyway :-)
[23:49] (tnzr) I just realized why I quit coming here a year ago. Because you guys will find any reason to discredit any source that says anything remotely disagreeable to the fucking sad-sack bubble that you live in. You think you know more than every authority, when y ou are no authority at all. You dont have the balls to go into a channel where youd ont have ops because if you cant kick/ban someone who disagrees with you, then you dont want to play.
[23:49] (US_Male) tnzr: you used a VIDEO game to claim how many rounds are fired in a real war, and kill ratios!
[23:49] (tnzr) in short, you are some fucking sad pussies.
[23:49] (tnzr) I pity you.
[23:49] (tnzr) get a life.
[23:49] (US_Male) HAHAHAHAA
[23:50] (US_Male) "when Demcorats melt down"
[23:51] (US_Male) "left a year ago" lolz. He means he got banned and got a new proxy
[23:51] (TheTailor) He gave me a URL stating that it backed his claim, and it didn't even come close.
[23:51] (TheTailor) wtf
[23:51] (US_Male) I know. He should have been a man and say he had no evidence
[23:52] (US_Male) and therefore since he had no evidence, all his bluster and bullshit was unwarranted
[23:52] (US_Male) but he had to bluff
[23:52] (TheTailor) You would have to be a complete moron to believe that shit
[23:52] (US_Male) and bluff, and bluff
[23:52] (TheTailor) I don't understand what makes people like that tick
[23:52] (US_Male) Bush-hate
[23:53] (TheTailor) Why keep trying to claim you are right when you are clearly wrong by your own admission?
[23:53] (US_Male) I don't get why he didn't just stfu when we let him off
[23:53] (TheTailor) Here's a URL that doesn't back my claim, but I'm right anyway.
[23:54] (US_Male) lol
[23:54] (US_Male) the old irrelevant URL trick
[23:54] (Thrawn) interesting video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru_gjY9qd_E
[23:55] (US_Male) it's OK to not have evidence -- just don't claim you do
[23:55] (US_Male) say "I saw it and I can't prove it"
[23:55] (US_Male) "I have no proof"
[23:55] (TheTailor) Why go through any of that though?
[23:56] (US_Male) he had an agenda, and he had to be right
[23:56] (TheTailor) Why do people want to claim things are true that simply are not?
[23:56] (US_Male) basis of all propaganda
[23:57] (TheTailor) Hell, I gave him examples of house to house assaults...
[23:57] (TheTailor) The logistics of what it would take to even move that much ammo
[23:57] (TheTailor) The time to load magazines with it
[23:57] (TheTailor) Good grief
[23:57] (TheTailor) The use of support
[23:58] (Thrawn) get over it man
[23:58] (redfish) usmale is a pre-adolescent owl-creature
[23:58] (TheTailor) Get over what?
[23:58] (TheTailor) haha
[23:59] (TheTailor) owl creature :-)
[23:59] (US_Male) redfish is nude and eating ice cream
[23:59] (US_Male) ;p
[23:59] (TheTailor) redfish, you are wrong, he's a fishing eagle
Session Close: Fri Mar 30 00:00:00 2007
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